 Welcome, everyone. It's 12th of July, 13th of July in India, and this is Doc's office hours. Remember, we abide by the Jenkins contributor code of conduct. So topics that I had on the list were Jenkins release 2.302 tomorrow. Actually, it's now approximately 12 hours from now, right. And then change log automation Jenkins LTS baseline selection for this will be the September LTS baseline. Any other topics you'd like to be sure we put on the list. No, nothing from my side. Okay. So let's see I wonder if maybe it's worth. Well, we could we could if we've if you want to we could spend some time talking about Jenkins update center outage. No, well, maybe not let's leave it there there was there have been some recent outages that for me were interesting, but I'm not I guess we could put in here. The plugin installation manager tool code review. Okay, great. So dirage, how about you take on the first one then Jenkins release 2.302 have you have you started a change log do you need some help with it. What's the status. Sure, so I have started on working on it and I'll be submitting the PR after the meeting within, I know, like five minutes. So it's just done I just need to push the changes and nothing else. So I had two doubts about it for two changes. So I think it would be better if I submit the PR and then you'll be able to do it. So doubts were a basic as in, they were, should I tell you the PR number so that you can look at it. Sure, let's look at them together. Why not. 5614. So 5614. Ah, this one, right. So it actually, I think this one should be labeled. I remember correctly, I think the place it occurs. It should be skip change like yes this is skip change like this has no impact on users. Okay, so I added in the comments. Right. Okay, so that one. That one is definitely a skip. Sure. Okay, and about number 5603. Okay, now this one surprises me that someone put it as a skip change log. Okay, sorry you said I should heed your your question okay so it's 5603 this one. Yes, yes. So type in category for this should be RFE, right. That makes sense to me, because it's removing functionality and and therefore it's not a bug fix in that sense. Okay. There is something up there that nothing seems to have used this. Right the the here's what it says. So, and that this is it is truly just a developer entry because the user does not, does not ever see this thing it was created by Kosuke 13 years ago. Yeah. Right. And was trying this experiment but there were there are truly no consumers of it. So it's nice that we're removing some code. Right. Exactly. Just so no one accidentally starts using it. Right. That's good. So do Raj back to your question though so it was, is this okay as an RFE I think so this is, this is such an uncommon event to actually delete code in Jenkins, we should probably have fireworks and a party. There's always we leave code behind just preserve compatibility but in this case there really is evidence that it's not worth it. Yeah. There was all that talk about technical definitely trying to clean up some of this. Right. More of the right. Last one is 5566. 55 say the last two digits again. 665566. Okay, this one right. Okay. 5566. Ah, yes. So, even this is going to be type and category as RFE and the proposed change log should I keep the removed the word intact. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think in this one again it's developer. I would personally do it like that but I think and I think that's how the other one was done wasn't it. Let's see. The present tense. In this case, right. This is an exception. Yeah, there isn't any way to say remove in present tense that I can think of. Meg, do you have any way to offer, offer English language and English grammatically correct way of using remove in the present tense to describe this change. Let's see. Let me see it again. Okay, so here, let's use this one so developer the experimental Hudson dot model that tree view class has been removed without replacement. I guess we could say me. Okay. We could say is being removed. And that's still, that's, that's not. Okay, yes, it's present tense, but really, or we can do we have a, so we have a bunch of this stuff that's being removed, right. No, we have these two items. Okay. We can have items that are unused or something colon and just list them but no for two not worth that. Well, actually that's not a bad idea. That may be worth combining these two into a single entry and just saying developer colon removed unused to unused items. And then list them Hudson model tree view and the other one, which was subclass generator. Right. So I'll write it like this is correct me if I'm not wrong if I'm wrong. So developer colon, the experimental Hudson model tree view and Hudson util subclass generator class has been removed without replacement. Right. Okay. Now the question is what is Hudson. Yeah, so again, it was never used. Yes. Yep. That's great. I want to see what it says here. Just if, yeah, this. Okay. Absolutely unused. Yes. I think that's a reasonable way to approach it. I mean, we could go chatty and say as, you know, part of the current initiative to solve some technical debt or something like this, you know, I don't know. We could mention that there's sort of an ongoing effort right now to look at stuff that has been sitting there for a long time. Yeah, so you can consider that dirage that's not a bad idea that give not include some rationale that we can use to get some of the removals to mention as. Yeah. My guess is there's going to be more of these in subsequent technical debt. Clean up. Yes. As part of code cleanup code improvements. I'm not sure people understand the term technical debt. And if they do they usually have the wrong concept of it. So, right, right. I'll do that. Excellent. Anything else on the weekly change log. No, nothing. Got it. Okay. So we've got the change log automation pull request from Tim Jack home. I'm out of I'm actually out of the office today and tomorrow so I won't review that until I get back, but Mark to review others also. Daniel Beck has expressed some concerns but I think I think we have enough experience with the areas where he's expressed concerns that we can constantly say no, we think it will work well to do it this way Daniel let's try it. And so I think it's worth the worth the conversation for the PR number but I know we've got a copy of it somewhere. I don't have to dig it up and put it into the notes here. Any questions on the change. Oh, and we should be sure that's clear weekly change like automation, because the, the LTS change log is a different thing. And it has an upgrade guide. Does not alter LTS change log or LTS upgrade guide. Great. Anything else on automation. Nothing. Okay, next topic then is the Jenkins September LTS baseline selection is this week. So once a quarter. We choose the next baseline for the LTS release. And as far as I can tell, it will certainly be 2.300 or later because 2.300 was a security release. And then after looking at 2.301 results to think that it'll at least be 2.301. So if we look at the report here. We're good ratios of sunshine to clouds. And these numbers are completely bogus and either of those are actual bug reports for it. So 2.300 looks good, 2.301 looks good. So I think either of those or it could be 2.302. Anything that anyone's aware of that would lobby for one of those strongly over another. Good. All right. Okay, then share your share your opinion in the dev list. And then we'll begin the discussion start. And I'm not sure that Tim Jacome is in the is available to actually start the discussions this week. So it may be that be that others are doing the discussion. Any questions on that topic. Okay. And then is plugin installation manager tool code review. And there I apologize for me. It's just need to do the reviews need to merge the PR that replaces install plugins.sh with the tool. Then we need to continue improving that documentation. Any other topics for today. What sort of hackathons and stuff like that. Do we have coming up. And is it time to start talking about activities around DevOps world. Good question. So we've got DevOps world is in September of 2021. And we've got Hacktoberfest in October of 2021 and associated with DevOps world we've got a Jenkins contributor summit in September of 2021. And that will be off. That one will be Asia Pacific time. So, Dheeraj will look to you to do even more contribution than you did in the last session. Of course, I will. And Meg will expect you to be present and fully awake and functional. It's not. Yeah. Asian time no problem. Yeah, absolutely. It'll be I assume it will be this time or later, most likely, because we want to get it to the point where it's not too late in Japan or in Beijing, but it's not so early that we lock out the people in India. Right. That's great. Asia is a big place we acknowledge there are lots of time zones covered by that half of the world and so do we have. So those are the, okay, we must have contributors from Australia right. Yes, we do. Yes, what about Taiwan. I'm sure there are I don't know any names that come to mind we've certainly got Raihan Shoal in in Singapore. Here's your contributor Jenkins core we've got Michael Neil in in the in Australia, and we've got. And I only know him by his, his nickname Ikea Dom in Japan, and then Linux surrender. So, oh dear. I forget his name. It's embarrassing I'm used to just, but we have quite a number of contributors all across Asia. And Australia. So in terms of planning for those. I'm prone to say, let's see how do how might we think so we've got. I can tell you some of the things though so Mark and Zina Abu Bakar are giving a talk on she called Africa contribute on and contributor summit. We've got lots of follow up from the last summit that needs to be done. And that's I guess maybe I should put that one here is set JDK 11 transition in September 2021 LTS, where what that will mean is the docker image default JDK will switch to Java 11. And that means lots of documentation. Lots of blog posts. Lots of testing to be done. And the plan docker for both controllers and agents. Right, right. So control well and it's, it's even more it's even more interesting than that it's controllers. The base agent image. The inbound agent image. The outbound agent image. And each of them has different and interesting subsets of behaviors or things that need consideration. And we've got lots to do there so if you're interested in helping with testing or with blogging or documentation by all means let me know I'm leading the effort plan is under development. Mark weight and Mike serioli are leading the plan. I think I'll be able to help. Excellent, great. That is very good. We would love to have your help. If you're willing to Raj, I'll send. I'll send a link to the draft document, because one of the first things that would benefit me is having people review this draft document and say, Oh, Mark, you missed this you missed this oh include this, etc. Great. All right. Okay, any other topics we should review today. What kind of people attended. What's the type of audience. So it's a it's a worldwide. Jenkins centered audience includes, including cloud these customers. Partners and many Jenkins users and developers. And it will, it will have all sorts of topics topics related to commercial products. Like the cloud these products topics there's an entire track dedicated to open source. And if I remember right there are other topics from from customer from users from opinion leaders, etc. So, in DevOps world, there will be other tools, communities as well, right, not just Jenkins. Correct. Right. Absolutely. Yes, that's a very big event. That's correct. Yeah, thousands of thousands of registered attendees last year. We're expecting similar. I mean, I think they were 25,000 last year. It's an all remote event again this year. I think they're hoping for 30,000 this year. The last I heard. Right. Yeah, that's nice. Great. Okay. I believe I believe we're rolling out the new certification exam for DevOps world also this year. Oh, okay. And we've actually I suffered in the last one. Tammy has resources she has hired certification coordinator. We've got real certification people coming in and I think we're going to do it right this time so congratulations that's wonderful. Okay. All right, so contributor summit. Same, the platform topics, the technical debt repayment topics. And more. Now, Hacktoberfest, preparing the, the good first issues is the big challenge there and that's a that's a good one for us to be working on because documentation good first issues are a great way for for users to contribute. Right. And I haven't looked at that. We must have Jenkins IO screenshots all over the place that need to be replaced. Yes, I can't everything looks different now right right between the terminology and the new graphics and that's absolutely. That's a good one screenshot updates and and in plugin docs right because there are so many let's see terminology changes as you said, and terminology changes are good first good first issues as well right right in plugins and elsewhere. And then the terminology changes screen, or what would you call it user interface improvements. Yeah actually that's a good question should we consider showing the screenshots in dark mode in dark theme. I mean go go all modern. I don't like the way, I mean, if they had borders or something but the fact that they're just they sit there and, you know, a small one can kind of disappear into the text. Um, when are we going to start sort of integrating the jcask information. I mean right now if you read how to install plugins or how to do all this configuration. There's UI and there's CLI, and nothing said about what this could also be configured through jcask. And I'm, I, my, my, I don't know if anybody else agrees with me that there's at least at least a transitional phase, where we start saying that this could also be configured with jcask, and we link to the jcask information about that or something. But maybe we want to go wholeheart and when you're talking about how you upgrade plugins. Now we have just that as a third scenario. Right. Good. Yeah. But it's easy. You know we didn't do it for a while because configurations code was out there and sort of for the strong of stomach, but it looks like it's getting stable and reliable right. Right. Yeah, likewise, for instance kubernetes kubernetes documentation and yeah and use user material is another place where we need a bunch of it. Yes, absolutely. That one even was considered as a possible, possibly a funded development project for an outreach project through Linux Linux foundation. Yeah. Okay. But the news being what it is. Are we going to do we start need to start saying something about disaster recovery especially ransomware or protecting yourself against ransomware. I've been reading about that this afternoon and it's like, oh, it's an ugly topic. Yeah, for me that's a not real good. Well that's a that's a strong lobby for configuration is code. Yeah. Reconstruct yourself. If you if you get locked out of your system. Right. Okay. Someone wants to contribute in Java. So are there any good first issue for Java as well. There certainly are. Absolutely. So there are many many of those. And one of the things that will need is in addition to documentation good first issues will need code, good first issues. And we'll we'll probably want even if we can find them JavaScript. Good first issues. Yeah. Now I'm not sure that they are as prominent because usually good first issues in JavaScript are pretty straightforward and much of the JavaScript in Jenkins is is more complicated than that. But that would certainly be a positive thing if we could point people towards, for instance, the plug in site definitely has some will also need webinars. Let's call them Jenkins online meetups to introduce the good first issues. There's another one for instance which is conversion to docs as code. Adopt a plug in like we taught in the last session. Right. Those are all actually not a bad experience. Yeah. JDK 11. Is that going to influence troubleshooting and performance management information, I would think it would. There's not a lot of troubleshooting and performance info that's specific to Java eight. So I actually don't think that Java 11 is making a major hit to the to the existing troubleshooting documentation but that's more because the existing troubleshooting material is quite weak. Most people find their best troubleshooting by using commercial documentation like what's provided by cloud bees. Looks like a fun year. Yeah, so, so this one. How do we thinking about how do we vet the good first issues lists I wonder if we start a promotional effort. How do we approach it a promotional effort or a marketing effort to invite others to identify. Good issues so the reason I suggest that is here is we've got. See, let me stop sharing my screen just long enough to get. Oh I know what I'll do I don't even need to stop. I'll just bring it up here let's look at Jira. And we're going to bring in friendly issues so here is the list of friendly issues. So what you see is a table of 80 or 90 80, 80 items which have identified at least one issue that is a is a friendly issue for a first time contributor. And so, one of the things we need to do in a webinar is introduce these issues show people hey look here's how you can help us. These are good places you can help us pick one of these. And, and they get started on it. And the crucial thing is that there are many of these where the we would benefit by having maintainers do another pass through their issue list and identify more things that are good first issues. Right so these issues are like specific so can you just give me example like what is expected in these issues. Yeah, good question so so there this is these top the first 61 are actually for Jenkins core, not for a specific plugin, and the typical expectation is open the issue. Assign it to yourself. And so as the here's one we might assign it to our self. And then start working on it. And, and it's, it's that that kind of that kind of straightforward you just assign it to yourself and start working on it. What about our old friend from she code Africa of the documentation for the steps. Oh, that's that's it when I mean one of the, I think one of the lessons of this is that the maintainers of these plugins have got to be involved in that. And, you know, and understand the need, and at least get issues filed. Now what they could do is they could file issues that said this step needs documentation and here's the information and put that in a in the issue ticket, and then lots of people could chime in and do it. Right right that's that's a that's a good example of a possible candidate which is the she code Africa, contribute on pipeline help. As good first issues. Right now that one's that one's, that one's interesting complicated right because we put those new contributors through about a week of preparatory work before they were ready to start on on their first code, but very much it's it's it's certainly a possible. I'm, I'm, I'm not out in the community that much but I haven't heard a lot of noise to get plugin owners, alerted to the fact that that they need to provide this help. Yeah, that's, I think that's, that's this first item is, is we've got to do some effort to encourage maintainers and submitters to identify good first issues. Can we do we have funding to have a promotional like, you know, create 10 tickets by the end of August and get a t shirt. Oh, that's an interesting idea. Something throw it at Alyssa. I'm not clever with these things but. Yeah, that's a very interesting idea so ask Alyssa Tong, if she would be willing to support a promotion. Good, good idea. I mean maybe people want something other than t shirts I don't know what her bottles are. Right, but but it's good question valid question very good. It would be not well maybe maybe it could even be mid September I guess we don't need a huge the way just to get these issues up there right, but we need them, at least a couple weeks before dev ops world. Well, I know this is for hackathon isn't it. But but even so hacktoberfest starts October one. And if the if the list all isn't already very well defined by October one it's too late and we've missed an opportunity. But it might be a way to get people more interested in participating to the remote. I know people miss getting together but the remote also means a whole lot of people can get involved that couldn't otherwise. Right. Well, and, and I wonder if maybe dirage you could keep, keep your ears open and stay attuned to promotional activities that are happening in India. We found that there were a number of meetings that were groups that were getting together to promote open source in India. And if you detect any of those and say, hey, we could get involved in this would be a great help. Okay, so just. So, for example, I like been to meeting for a channel. So something like that. Right, exactly. So, so watch for other locations where we can promote. Right. Definitely do that. Student organizations right. Open source groups, etc. What about our Africa connection. Is that going to be a once a year she code Africa thing or is it. That's another connect with she code Africa and, and others in Africa. Absolutely. Yes. And they're there I think there's a there's an element of host the meetings at a time that works for the for them. Right. So when we host a meeting at 9am Eastern in the US, that's after working day in Africa, and we might do better to host it much earlier in the morning, so that we we get strong overlap with the Africa working day. Right. Or maybe we get somebody in Europe where they're closer. Right. I mean how much are we tapping Europe really. We have a strong presence there but CloudBees does but Yeah, I think I think we've got many contributors in Europe. Certainly we're not Eastern Europe we're not tapping nearly as well as we might. Lots and lots of great contributions come from Russia and from Ukraine. But I'm sure there's more to be done there. Okay, it seems like I'm hearing little things about Polish place at Polish companies that are getting right. Certainly very, very upcoming growing technical community in Poland for sure. Yeah. But it's almost it's like how can this group can't support all of those really. We need maybe we need owners for different regions or something I don't know. May, yeah. Some of them we probably get into language things to where it would be really nice if we would have somebody who could hold meetings in Poland in Polish. Yep. Correct. Although, we're just talking to a friend who's who's working in Poland right now and has for the last two years. And he says they conduct all their business meetings in English. Right. Yeah except for Japan it seems like the technical world is largely English speaking but like any. These feel like great topics this I think I suspect needs needs a plan and work to make the plan happen. And swag. Last year. Sorry, say that again dear Raj. Yes, so how did we do in last year's October best. So we've got, we've got. We can use the plan from last year as our as our first draft right. And plan and and meetings, etc. Do we have any notes or retrospectives from that from last year. We do. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And these are all good topics for. For the advocacy and outreach sig meeting this week. So when does this meeting happen. If you remember. I do. Yeah, so let's let me capture that from the. Jenkins site so sub projects community advocacy and outreach. And it says we've got meetings here. Okay, see the event calendar so it's each Thursday. No, no. Every other Thursday. At. And I'm just going to bring up the dragon the calendar. So the calendar here is. It's 9 30 PM to 10 30 PM. Right. So very late for you. Yes. But I can try to join because I think I should because this is something I'd like to know more about the outreach and advocacy. And we would love to have your help there. That would really be a great, great addition. It may also be a good excuse for us to have a discussion about should we shift it to another time or do. Asia Pacific advocacy and outreach in addition to doing. Western hemisphere. Advocacy and outreach. But it would be really good. Thanks. All right. Okay. Any other topics for today. Okay. I'm going to pause then and go stop the recording and then go play with my grandchildren. Sounds wonderful. All right. Thanks everybody. Thank you. Talk to you next week, everybody. Bye.