 Okay, I'm gonna call the meeting to order then. It's a regular schedule, nothing regular about it. It's a regular schedule meeting in the town of Berlin, developed by a new board. We have one applicant before us tonight. It is 707 and the applicant is Jean and Donna Gagman. Actually, this is Meredith Haven and it's for a site plan review, a major site plan review. That's the only application we have before us. I'm gonna ask those that intend to give testimony in this before the sport tonight to please raise your right hand and do you swear to tell the truth? That's about truth to manage before the sport tonight. I'm a penalty as a perjury. I do. I do. I do. Thank you, thank you. Because we are still remote, I'm gonna ask people to announce their names as they speak. I think it's sort of part of the roll call procedure. Who's gonna speak for the applicant tonight primarily? Well, I'm gonna kick things off. Okay, Rick. Should I go to it? Please. Okay, thank you very much. Good to be here. Although I'll admit I had a little bit of panic at seven o'clock I couldn't find the link for the Zoom meeting but you probably all know what that's like and as we try to stay connected. So I'm gonna kick things off and then turn it over to Brian who's gonna lead you through how we're gonna address the criteria. To begin with, I want to explain the role of down street housing in the project. We're the proposed owners of Twin City if the project goes through and down street is our real estate development partner. And I wanted you to understand that because I think it's very important. One, because of the high quality of the real estate development work that they do but the second thing and I think it's even more important is the type of housing they develop which meets community needs but it doesn't sacrifice anything in terms of the quality, what it looks like, how it fits in and how it's operated. So the fact that they're with us I hope tells you something and because that's exactly what our aim is with this proposal. Now I'm just gonna take a few minutes to give you some context because this is it. May I interrupt you one second? Yeah. I don't recognize all the parties here on the screen and I really want to see do we have any people here that are seeking interested party status? I mean, is everybody with the applicant? That don't recognize? Morgan Brown. I'm just a member of the public just interested in the project. Okay, no comments. Morgan, are you interested in party status to this application? No, I'm just observing. Well, we appreciate your coming. Thank you. Thank you. There'll be no one else that seeking interested party status, please proceed. Excuse me, Thomas Bachman. Thomas Bachman, where's that? Oh, Tom. Tom is the architect. He's the architect. Okay. I don't recognize him. Okay. I'll get rolling again. I just, we think it's important that you have some context. This is a different kind of project for sure. And I think you deserve to have some of that context. You know, the very first thing is we are going to continue to operate Twin City Motel as a motel as it has for the last 50 years but serving a tremendous need that unfortunately has emerged over the last 20 years. And that's the need for short-term emergency housing for individuals. I'm not sure if you know this but throughout both before and throughout the COVID period Washington County had the second highest number of homeless individuals by county in the state. And that number has been between 300 and 350. And these are people, so many of them living in motels, some of them in shelters and some on the street. You know, and unfortunately the facilities that we have here in Washington County they just don't meet up with the need. We've been doing our best over the years with a basically a single family house in Barry and church basements in both Barry and Montpelier. So that's the context for why we were even looking to do a project like this. So perhaps now you're thinking, well, yeah, they're gonna buy a motel. Is this gonna be like the hilltop in? We know what that's like. And my answer is no. In fact, our aim is exactly the opposite of the hilltop in. We're trying to get away from the hilltop in. So for example, instead of a 90 unit isolated warehouse we're gonna be offering 18 attractive rooms on the bus route with generous common areas for eating, relaxation and doing the important work, a work of preparing to get out of there and working on your future with a housing case manager. Secondly, instead of a complete lack of a screening process which is unfortunately the situation at the hilltop, we will offer a very rigorous intake process that aims to place our guests where they will fit in best and where they will succeed. And you may not know this, but this is not our only facility. We hope to be offering four different sites by the end of the year. And coincidentally, we didn't plan it this way, but they are in the four major towns of Washington County, Montpelier, Barry, Berlin and Barry town. And I think that in some sense that does make sense to us that this need is balanced between the different communities. So I've been pointing out the differences between the hilltop and us. Another difference is at the hilltop right now, hey, it's their private owners, they're there to maximize their income. They have hardly any involvement at all with the success of the people in the motel. Versus what we will be offering, we will have 24 seven professional staff on site, we'll have case managers, as well as staff from other organizations that we work very closely with like Washington County Mental Health, Capstone and others. And a footnote to the staffing thing is our administrative staff, like me, our offices will be on site. So we want the place to look good and to be well run. And we will have a big stake in the success of this property. And right now, there's kind of an anything goes mentality in the hilltop and the other motels. You've really got to do something pretty bad to get kicked out of there. Versus we will be operating an alcohol and drug-free property with daily check-ins and a very low tolerance for troublemakers. People will be there with a program agreement, they're gonna get a room, but if they violate the agreements, they will be out immediately. So I just want to point out those differences. Because people bring up the hilltop and rightfully so, but this is gonna be a world of difference from the hilltop. And I'll close by saying, we think Twin City can be something very special that it will look attractive, be professionally operated and give the individuals who happen to utilize it a leg up to improve their lives and be productive citizens. So with that, I'd be glad to answer questions later, but I'd like to turn it over to Brian. Thank you, Rick. Brian? Great, yep. Thanks, Rick. Thanks, Bob. So I'm gonna, I'm Brian Lane-Karnas. For those of you that don't already know me, I'm the civil engineer for the project with Duel of Engineering. So I'll just be doing the main portion of the presentation as it relates to the zoning regulations. So I'm gonna bring up my hair so we can, oh, Tom, it looks like screen sharing is disabled. Do you think it would be possible to get it? Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. Right. If it's not possible, we'll work without it, but... Well, you should be getting it short right here. Oh, yep, got it. Great, thank you. Let's see, let's start with the overhead photos. Is everyone seeing the overhead photo here? Okay, so this is the existing Twin City Motel site. The property boundary is right here between the existing motel and the warehouse. Then there's the actual property goes up, weighs up the very Montpelier Road and then along the back of the highway access right away. So existing on a site right here is the sort of main motel building and then these six seasonal cabins and then a single family residence up at the top of the hill there. So that's the sort of existing site that aren't familiar with it. We're proposing to take down five out of these six cabins here and place it with a new five-unit motel building. The sixth cabin is gonna be retained, but just for storage. It's not, it's only seasonal, so we can't use it as another motel unit. Oops, that's not the right thing. Here we go. So here's an overall plan of the site. So you can realize we've changed orientation, so I'll just orient everyone again. Here's route 302 at the bottom. This is the existing motel building. This shaded part is the new proposed five-unit motel and then the existing residences up here. So the existing motel is proposed to be renovated, although the exterior of it really won't change any. And the interior of the house is supposed to be renovated as well. Some offices will be added in the garage. Some of the living spaces that we converted to, open office and common space. And then the three bedrooms upstairs and the existing house will be used as motel unit rooms. Otherwise on the site, it's going to be largely the same. Almost all the landscaping is gonna come down and be replaced with new landscaping. Slight parking configuration. We're taking out some parking in front of the existing motel to make some new landscape dial-ins. And then we're adding some parking in for the new building. The both of the drive entrances will be reduced in width to sort of better define the entrance and exit to the site, which means that this central landscaped area in the middle here is actually gonna be significantly increased. Just a couple more general things. There's no increase in living units at the site. There's currently 15 motel units and three bedrooms in the house. And we're proposing to have 18 motel units following the redevelopment. All the dimensional standards of the commercial district are met with the exception of the existing motel, which you can, these dotted lines here are the setbacks. So you can see the existing motel encroaches on to the left side setback here. We're not making any changes to the footprint or use of that building. So we believe that that's approvable as an existing non-conforming structure. So that's the general, just the project. I'll let the board ask some general questions before I dive into the review criteria specifically. Okay, I guess, go ahead. I have a question. Because we're on screen, just wait for acknowledgement, please, Josh. Go ahead. So the short-term housing, the housing that's limited to 30 days per occupant, that'll be in the motel units as well as in the three apartments in the single family home. Yeah, so I wouldn't call them apartments, they're just their bedrooms now, they'll be converted into motel units. But yes, all three buildings will be used with motel units in them. But there'll be, I think the initial speaker, Mr. Deidler, said that he would have an office there, that would be an office in that single family home. Yeah, so there's offices in the single family home, the garages can be renovated with some office space. And that's sort of gonna be like the intake area. There's also an office down in the new motel building as well. And then there's, I think he said that there would be someone on site 24-7, does that mean that there'll be a non-tenant employee occupying one of the bedroom units? I'll let Rick take that one. Yeah, not necessarily, they would be an awake staff there. So no, we don't have a bedroom for that staff person. We do in the office area down at the motel units, there's a space for that person to be an overnight. Okay, because there'll be someone there from the management basically 24-7 and they've just had to be in some place. I just didn't know where they were gonna be, so. Okay, thank you. Chair, I've got some general- Paulie, go ahead. So I guess these are for Rick. So what happens after 30 days? Are they, where do these, it sounds like they're kicked out after 30 days or what? Cause that's what the application said there, they're sort of maximum 30 days. Are they transitioned to someplace else? Like, yes, like I said, we will be operating three other facilities and two of them are long-term, meaning that there's no limit on stays. So yes, they would be, they would, unless they find their own housing and actually the number one goal is that we work with people to get them in their own housing or back to their family or whatever, just as soon as possible. But if not that, then we can make the switch to one of the other facilities, which has no limit, no exact limit on stays. The other question is, I know that the place in Barrie kicked them out during the day. Basically they were there, I don't know, five in the evening til eight in the morning or something. Is that gonna be true here or are they gonna be able to stay here during the day? They will be able to stay during the day. Yes, that is a feature of our permit in Barrie. It's long precedes me by about 25 years. And we don't consider that a trauma-informed practice when you're trying to work with people and stabilize them and you push them out on the street every day. So that's one of the virtues of this property and the way that we'll operate it. Okay. Bob, I have another question. This is Josh. Please, Josh, go ahead. I think Rick mentioned some common areas, whether it be a common room or things of that sort. Where are those common areas? So there's a smaller common area in this portion of the new building here. There's only in the motel is laundry facilities and the existing motel, I should say. And in the new motel, there's a small common area in this corner of the building. And then the majority of the common spaces is up in the bottom floor of the existing house. I see. Okay. Is that a new building, a single-story building? Yes, it is. Thank you. I have a question, go ahead. Polly? No, it's not. Are those buildings connected to the, oh, I can't. Is it connected to the old building? I'll show you a little closer. It's like an odd configuration to me. Yeah, it's kind of driven by the existing site grade more than anything. I mean, one, the angle of this new building kind of matches the existing cabins. So if you can see this catch square in here is the existing cabins. And so partly is there's the steep hillside behind here where you can see there's a lot of consular lines behind. So that's kind of driving. We don't want to have to dig out the whole hillside to fit the new building in at a different angle. So these two buildings are going to relate with a very small courtyard in between. So there's like a seat wall here at the bottom of the stairs and then a small courtyard for a little gathering space in between the two buildings. But there's no physical connection, built structure connection between the two buildings. All right. Thank you. I have a question with regard to the remaining building, the remaining individual unit, I believe it's called unit C. Is that, you said that storage only? Yes. Okay, so it's because it says motel room on here on the drawing. Yes, that's a note that comes through from our existing conditions. But no, it will only be used as storage because the buildings aren't, they're too difficult to bring up to building code in their current condition. They don't have permanent water service. They don't have code compliant electrical service. There's barely any insulation and the foundations are inadequate at best for long-term residents. So the reason we're keeping that one is because there was some review with historic preservation around the project because those motel cabins were built more than 50 years ago. There was some interest from the State Historic Preservation Officer. They've reviewed the project and this is what we're doing to retain some of the historic nature of the project is retaining the one cabin and documenting the remainder of the cabins that are gonna be removed. What is the first floor elevation on a building? The new one? No, the old building that you're retaining that you're using the storage. Oh, that's a good question. I'm not sure I have that information. It's not on the plan. So I don't know that I have it's a hand. I think it's flood plain. Yeah, we'll get to that when we get to the flood plain criteria here. But if that's gonna be used for storage, I think we need to, I think the applicant really needs to know what the first floor elevation is. And is in fact above the base, the 100 year flood elevation. If it isn't, all storage and they would need to be kept above that elevation. We can infer that it is by the contours. So if you see here's a 549 contour running in front of the existing cabin and the flood elevation of the site is 548.5. So it may not be a foot above flood elevation, but it's at least six inches above flood elevation. Have you got shots on it or not? I don't think we picked up FFE on those because we weren't planning to use them for residents. And typically, I don't know if Berlin has this provision, but most towns have the provision where there can be, usually it's not a whole separate building, but within a building, if there's areas below the lowest floor, they can be used for storage, parking or building access. So to be honest, I'm not sure that we shot FFE there because we weren't really considering if it was only storage that it would be an issue with flood plain. Besides the fact that it's actually outside of the regulatory flood plain, the edge of the regulatory flood plain is this double dot dashed line here. And you're not planning to modify that building? No, we're not. I mean, we're going to disconnect the electrical, probably from it and the water, which runs over the surface of the ground and then it's just storage. And Tom Bachman here, it may end up with new piers. We're not sure what the foundation of it is, how good it is. So as far as modifications, I think it's just basically stabilized. And we had also talked, even though people are talking about storage, that's probably where recycling and garbage will be using totes. That's what that will be used for. If you're putting it on piers, you're going to raise it up the first floor out of the base flood? I mean, we can certainly check the elevation. I'm, you know, given the existing grade here, the floor of this cabin is not below the existing grade next to it. So I am fairly certain that it is above the floodplain. It doesn't need to be a foot above the floodplain because it's not a residential structure. So I'd be happy to go out there and shoot it and provide you with the first floor elevation, the condition of the permit. Okay, thank you. We may deal with that later, but I just, not to clarify the storage, but it depends on the type of storage you're going to have in there. And I think we'd like to know that whatever storage, being stored in there is going to be easy enough to solve the problem. You just store it high enough so it's off the ground, off the, above the base flood elevation. Yeah, yeah, which I honestly, my belief is that by putting it on the floor in there, it'll be above the base flood elevation. But like I said, I don't always trust contours. At any rate, I'm happy to provide the first floor elevation of that existing cabin as a condition of the permit. All right. Any other questions by other board members or any board member? Questions by the zoning administrator. Rick, I know the neighbor called me with some concerns and I passed that information on to Brian. And I think somebody from your organization, went and spoke to him. Can you maybe just talk about his concerns and how you alleviated them? Oh, yeah, sure. I met with all of the neighbors, gave them some information. I met with the gentleman who owns the tool warehouse twice. And his concern is about theft. He explained to me that he's a sole proprietor and he's worried that somebody could come in there and grab something and run out. And what I said to him is that we will make it, we will do everything in our power to discourage people from going into his business because I don't see any reason why they should be in there. And we will just do our best to discourage that. And I will be on site and I committed to him that we would be right next door. He could call me anytime and we will stay on top of it. Thank you. Any other questions before we proceed to the criteria? If there are none, then go ahead, Brian, and proceed with the criteria sort of, I presume following your letter? Yeah, absolutely. So following the letter in the first portion of the zoning that we were addressing was the floodplain which we already started talking about. So a portion of the property is within the special flood hazard area. And as I pointed out previously, this double dot dash line here is the edge of the floodplain. We submitted a profile from the flood insurance study showing that the 100 year flood elevation of the site is 548.5. The only portion of any building on the site that's within the flood, special flood hazard area is this office section of the motel. Zoom in on this a little bit. So this, there's two floor elevations in here. It steps up at this line right here. So this office portion, which is, if you're familiar with the site, is the sort of A-frame part on the end. Is the lowest floor elevation that it steps up more than a foot between these two sections, more than two feet. However, this A-frame section is a slab on great construction existing. And the existing floor elevation is 1.15 feet above the base flood elevation. So this portion of the building already meets the residential requirements for buildings in the floodplain and substantial improvement of existing buildings is an allowed use in the commercial district. I assume the board has seen the review comments from Ned Swanberg. He agreed that it meets the requirements. He did mention if we have any tanks that do end up in the flood hazard area that we provide appropriate times and flotation, anti-flotation and if that does happen, we may end up with a propane tank over here. And if we do, we'll provide a tight-on-pad and appropriate straps and it will be underground. So safe from movement other than flotation in the big flood. If you do do that, we can submit that. Yes, the calculations. Well, the location request. Yep. It's not a given unless you're telling us that's part of this application. It's one of those things that we're working through. This design is on a very fast timeline. So that details that we're still working through, but happy to be in contact if we do end up locating a propane tank there. I appreciate that you're working on a very tight timeline and obviously everybody's busy. But any changes to this plan, including additions of things like locations of tanks will need to come back before the zoning administrator. Yep, absolutely. Rick, just for your knowledge, I don't know if you're going to be purchasing a flood insurers, but Berlin is a member of the community rating system. And as such, you get a, right now it's a 5% discount. I think it'll summed up the 15% discount on your flood insurance. Yeah, good to know. Just continuing on with the flood criteria, just to mention the new motel building is outside of the flood plain and the first floor elevation is also set at one foot above the base flood elevation. So it's protected in both elevation. Because I know the location may change as we change the grading around here. So it's also one foot above the base flood elevation. So that only leaves me with a storage unit. And I appreciate now that it's not being used for habitation, but still, I think I'd like to know what the elevation that is. And certainly, if this is intended for any storage that's subject to leachate or subject to damage, we want to know it's being stored above the hundred year flood level, which can be easily accomplished. Can I ask a question, Bob? This is Josh. Yeah, go ahead. I don't see anything speaking. So related to the flood question, even though the buildings may be outside the flood district, if there is a serious flood, you would have to evacuate the motel, I assume, because you wouldn't be able to get to it, right? Does the developer or owner have plans for evacuation? So if evacuation is needed, the house is significantly higher than the rest of the site. So the house is up at 566, as opposed to a flood elevation of, let me just make sure, because I'm throwing in a lot of numbers, 548. So that's 18 feet higher than the flood elevation. So that would be sufficiently high that it would be no water got up to the house, basically. But you don't have room for 18 tenants or occupants who are occupying motel rooms to move into the single-family dwelling, so they'd have to go somewhere else. Sure, of course. I think that would be a temporary emergency evacuation situation just to keep people safe, and then they could be moved to somewhere else as soon as it's feasible by the emergency services or whoever is evacuating folks. Okay. But it is noteworthy that there is no exit route. Once you would have a 100-year flood, Route 302 will be submerged, and there's no other way out of this site for emergency vehicles. Yeah, as is probably common to most developments along Route 302. Yeah, resilient planning tries to avoid that. I understand it, but we don't have access to another roadway. No, I just want the owner to understand that. That is a limitation here. Now, the depths of flooding on Route 302 in my history have never been that great that you couldn't negotiate them with a proper vehicle, but still. Don't drive through a flood, Mr. Chair. All right, go ahead. I mean, I should just, you know, to facilitate the conversation, you know, in a real emergency, it would be possible, you probably have to cut the fence, but it would be possible to evacuate people up the hill and onto Route 63 from this particular site as well. Yes. I mean, I'm just commenting that. I think that from a operational point of view, the owners, Goods, American Haven need to have some thought about what would happen to, you know, where would they evacuate the tenants to in the event that there is a flood? I mean, you know, some contingency, some arrangement, whatever, unless you just simply say, well, it's up to the tenants to figure out where they're going to go. But this seems to me that this population needs a little bit more care than, you know, what it might be otherwise. So. Well, this is Rick DeAngelis. I want to, I've taken note of the concern and I intend to do something about it. I totally agree. We don't want chaos down there if there's an emergency. There could be other emergencies as well. So we haven't got to that yet, but I intend to get there. Thank you. The reality of you look at the contours there is relatively easy pedestrian access from that site to 62. You don't have to go up the hill. You just have to walk to the north. But just, it's something worth noting. Any other questions for the joint administrator? Anybody else? If not, we'll continue with the criteria. You address floodplain. Yep. So just a quick tour through the general standards. We are proposing it right in this location here, a four foot high fence. I don't know if it's exactly clear what the purpose of this depression is. So I'll just take a second to explain it. When we were working through the review process with VTrans, they asked us to physically disconnect the site stormwater from the VTrans drainage system. And this was their suggestion was to essentially break the drainage pipe and expose it into the air, essentially. I think that is mainly so it is clear whose responsibility is who's to maintain the drainage systems. But one of their comments was they wanted to make sure that snow wasn't getting pushed into this depression and then directly into their drainage system. So that's the intention of this split rail fence in this location is to prevent snow from being piled up in this depression. Otherwise there's a new retaining wall between the two buildings, which will be like a seat height wall around 30 inches high. And then I don't know if this was clear in the text of the application but there is an existing concrete block retaining wall behind the house that is failing. So we intend to replace that with a precast segmental concrete block wall essentially into existing configuration. Go back to the seat height wall you talked about earlier. Where is that located? So that's this right here in the courtyard between the two buildings. And then there's two short returns up there is just to manage grade on either side there. Okay. Anything else we got the fences and walls? Any questions on fences and walls? Hearing none. Great. We did mention outdoor lighting in the general standards but we'll hit that with more detail as we go through the site plan standards. So there are special use standards as well in the regulation regarding hotel and motel. As we discussed, there are some accessory uses besides just the motel units, laundry, office, common space. But those facilities aren't going to be open to the general public. And then there's a requirement for gross floor area per room. So with 18 rooms, the total gross floor area of all three buildings is 7,960 square feet leaving us with 442 square feet per room which exceeds the 400 square feet per room requirement in regulation. And as we mentioned previously, the length of stay is going to be limited to 30 days so it won't be classified as an extended stay hotel under the regulation. Questions by the board? If not, we'll move ahead to the site plan standards. All right. Parking and loading is the first site plan standard. So the regulations require 16 parking spaces for this use. We're proposing 21 spaces including two accessible spaces. Essentially we've got one accessible space at the bottom. This unit here is an accessible unit including access to accessible laundry facilities inside this building. So that's why this one's located here. We have another accessible space at the top because there's not with the existing grades it's not really possible to make an accessible walking route from the one set of buildings to the others. So the intention is because it's going to be staffed all the time that if someone with mobility challenges needs to access the house bottom they'll be driven up to the other accessible space. All the spaces are nine by 18 except the ADA spaces which meet ADA requirements and minimum 20 foot aisles for two-way circulation. Everything will be paved and striped. We don't expect any deliveries other than your standard parcel service, mail, UPS, FedEx kind of delivery. We've got a few specific snow storage areas that are shown on the site plan. Right, but just, are you feel it's going to be necessary to repave or? So we're going to, there's a lot of regrading that happens with this building. Unfortunately a lot of this is going to be repaved. We're going to try to watch on the south side as we can but probably 60% of this area is going to be repaved in the front. And quite a lot of payments are being removed also. But the driveway in this area, that'll all stay, not get repaved. Okay, thank you. Sure. So we've got a couple of snow storage areas in the corners of the parking lot, or I'm sorry the green area in the middle of the parking space. These are sort of situated here and here to accommodate the landscaping too. So if these end up being insufficient then Good Samaritan Haven will get the snow from the site as necessary. And then we can talk about parking lot landscaping when we get to the landscaping section. So board has any other questions on parking and loading? Questions on parking and loading? Yes, this is Josh. Please Josh. Do the anticipated guests of the hotel have cars? I mean, I've apologized to my ignorance in the matter of this matter, but it seems to me that many of them would not have cars. Is that correct? That is correct. So the parking probably would not be, you're not gonna have an issue with too many parking spaces. You're gonna have underused utilization probably of the parking spaces. If it's used as a good shelter. Perhaps underutilization, we will have some visitors, our collaborators and service partners could be there, will be there during the day. So yeah, you're probably right. If anything will probably underutilize. And at some point it could be just run as a motel, couldn't it? I'm sorry, I missed that question. It's intended to be used as a shelter for homeless individuals, but it could be converted to just a, you could change the clientele and work it or use it as a motel, couldn't you? I, yes, I mean, yes, we could go back to a pay for a motel room operation. Right, okay, thank you. Brian, how many existing parking spaces are there now? The best count I have, it's a little squishy, but I counted 21, so we would have the same amount of parking there proposed as existing. Thank you. Any other questions on parking or comments? If there are none, access to circulation. Great, so as I had mentioned previously, I'm gonna go back to this bigger plan to talk about this. There's two curb cuts. We're proposing to maintain both curb cut locations, but reduce them both 24 feet in width. Given the current configuration of the site, it wouldn't, there's nowhere for emergency vehicles to turn around once they enter the site. So we feel that we need to maintain both curb cuts for, you know, to provide adequate access and circulation for emergency vehicles. The project has been reviewed by V-Trans and an LOI was issued recently. Hopefully members of the board have had a chance to take a look at that, although I have it, and I'm happy to talk about it if there's any questions. Both accesses are proposed for two-way circulation and meet B71 standards. And then their fair amount of thought has been given to pedestrian and bicycle circulation with this site, particularly due to the population that we expect here. So we will be providing bike parking in this landscaped area here, proposing a sidewalk along the frontage, as well as a connection to the rest of the site. And these sidewalks connect to a proposed bus stop location here in the southeast corner of the site. That Good Samaritan Haven has been talking to GMTA about providing regular bus stop at this location. In addition, Good Samaritan provides a van service that assists folks. And then we do have the stairs and sidewalk connection up to the upper house there. One thing that we should discuss as the board members probably noted in our narrative, we're proposing to only build the frontage sidewalk along the section of the lot that we're proposing to redevelop. We're requesting that construction of a sidewalk along this 250 or 75-foot section of, sorry, 225-foot section of frontage along here be deferred until some further development happens on that portion of the lot. And maybe it's actually easier to see that on the landscaping plan where it's colored. So these brown colors, kind of where we're proposing to construct a frontage sidewalk along the lot. What's the future development? Well, it may depend. I think there isn't a current plan for future development, like a specific plan for future development, although part of the attention in purchasing this lot was to try and do something with this section. So, it's probably gonna be a compatible use like low-income housing in the downstreet develops or not that I'm committing them to that, or an additional hotel building if that arises, that would be the kind of thing I would imagine. Although as I said, no specific plan for development on that northern portion of the lot yet. What is to the right? I don't know, I'm not sure what direction, right? Are we, we're not sure? So what is to the right is the entrance to Route 63 up here? Well, there's no development to the right. Yeah, there's no directly adjacent development. There's not like another building up there, if that's what you mean. Is there any development alongside that? No, okay. Yeah, so this, everything back here is Route 63 right away. Right, okay. The property, oops, the property line, you can see the property line is just at the tree line here and then it's back in the trees on this section here. So I have a question about the two driveways in. Did you say that they were both two-way? Yeah, that's the intention is that they would be both two-way. And why is that better than one-way traffic? It's a busy corridor and I find if you try and make something a one-way loop, you often have people who miss the signage. We're limited as to what signage we can put because it's the V-trans right away. So we can't put like a giant like flashing turn here sign. And so since we have enough room to have 20-foot aisles, which are appropriate for two-way circulation, I think you'll have less traffic conflicts. Actually, if you can have folks enter at either drive, in case they miss the one that they're supposed to turn in. And then they're stuck going the wrong way around one-way loop. And you don't anticipate a lot of traffic within the site. And you don't anticipate a lot of traffic within the site. You don't anticipate a lot of traffic within the site. I take it at any one time. No, I mean, don't have cars. So it's just, you know, the people who work with them. Right. And it's not, it's not the kind of use that has like a peak traffic, like a big office building where everyone gets out at five o'clock. You know, even if it were operated as a motel, people would kind of be coming and going. And then you know, there's a lot of people that arrive at the same time, typically. Brian, you asked, you answered one question for me, which policies to ask, which is did you give me a consideration to one-way traffic? I was a little bit concerned about people popping out. What's the distance between the two driveways? Let me measure it for you. I realized the station numbers on the highway plans, but. So inside to inside. 147 feet. When we're making them smaller, we are making them smaller by making them farther apart. So like the existing curb cut. Let me get my handy dandy little red pen out. The existing curb cuts are here. And here. So we are trying to separate them as much as we can. And we're trying to make sure that we don't have to, we don't have to, we don't have to separate them. And if we're maintaining them. Based on your current facilities, do you have any sense of the volume of traffic you would expect? Rick, I have to ask you to speak to that. Well, I wish I had a scientific basis to answer that question. I would say that. We have vehicles. Our staffing would be on site, but we don't have a huge staff. Maybe. Five or six staff members there at peak. So to me, the probably the, I think it's likely that we're talking around 10 cars there at a, as a, at a busier point in time. Okay. So one concern I had about circulation was. The drive up to the upper unit, which now is a residence, but in the future will be an office and more than a residence. And that, that drive into sex, the entrance practically within the first 15 feet. I'm a little concerned about people coming in and turning to the right or more. I'm really more concerned about people coming down the hill. And then exiting. Yes. There is, there is a, that will be stopped controlled coming down the hill. Probably not super. But so folks will have to stop here. As they're exiting. And then they can go in, you know, if it's clear, then they can go into the throat of the driveway and then obviously stop again before entering room 302. Any thought given to making that just a right turn only. Coming down the hill. No, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. Sorry. Let me back that up for a second. I think it, as I mentioned previously, it may be necessary for staff of Good Samaritan Haven to drive someone from the house back down to the motel. In which case I don't think we'd want to force them to go out on 302 and come back. That's right. And what I said is right turn only in other words. Oh, right. Oh, I'm sorry. I would be concerned about people coming down the hill. From the upper unit. And then trying to turn. Left. Right. So there's only one car length there. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. Logistically, it seems to be a problem. You're not having that much traffic, but. I just, if a car's coming in. There's almost no sight distance coming in before you're practicing on top of each other. Yeah. Good suggestion. I'm inclined to suggest that you. Anybody coming down the hill. Is the right turn over. Yeah. You have a problem with that, Brian. Nope. That's all right with me. It forces them to go through the rest of the development. But on the other hand, I think. Try to come out of that. You know, I see that as a sort of a. Nasty little slide out. Yeah. And you know, it's unfortunate because it's, it's hard to improve this intersection because of the grading without really. You know, it's pretty, it's pretty steep up here anyway. So it's difficult to rearrange this. But yeah. When it was a resident only, I could see it, not a problem. Especially when the resident bond to the owners. But. When you have all the traffic going up and down. I think maybe we want to see that. Yeah. I agree. I don't see that. Opposes a hardship on the applicant. We'll tack one more sign up on the, on the, on the poll. And none of you, none of your. Drawing show stop bars or anything like that. And I appreciate you in a hurry. But stop bars, signs. That stuff needs to be shown on these drawings. You've just testified you will be having stop bars there. I wasn't actually intending to have a stop bar there. Just because it's a really limited amount of traffic that comes up and down here. I mean, there's only three parking spaces. Up there. So I felt it was adequate to just have the sign. But if, if you would like a stop bar there. Again, Well, probably stop bars is not necessary, but a sign is necessary. In this case, I would like to see others. I, I think I'm open for suggestions, counter suggestions, but I think it would be useful if we did not allow traffic, come down the hill and take a left. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. I also, I don't think a stop. Some kind of stop is not inappropriate. Because the cars coming in. People tend to take a left. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. I also, I don't think a stop. I think it's a good idea to have, you know, a stop bar or sign or something. Yeah, we had, we had a stop sign proposed there. At the bottom of driveway here. Yeah. And we'll add. Either no left turn or right turn only. Under the MUT CD. Problem with stop bars. Polly is, is the paint disappears within a couple of years. Every winter. Any other questions on circulation? Yes. Yes. Go ahead. I'm getting back to the bus stop. You said there's a proposed. One on the side of the street. Just tell. What about bus stops for the buses coming out of Barry? Yeah. I mean, would they be stopping on the other side of the road? And pedestrian's having to run across 302 or, or are you going to make them stay on the bus? You know, the loop and all the way around till they come back or how's that going to work? Yeah. I mean, the intention is, is not to get people to cross the road to get the bus. So that's partly why. Good Samaritan provides the van service as well. But, you know, it may be that they have to do something like get the bus here and then take it down to like McDonald's where they can cross the road and get on the other side. I don't believe there's a bus stop on the other side of the road there. No, no, in fact, there's no space for it. Can I, can I also add to the answer for that? The other service we have right now is the my ride service for Montpelier. So, you know, by arrangement, they will come to our site. And return to riders to locations and, and Montpelier and Berlin. So that's a huge advantage. And, and, and of course, people could walk down in the bike path to the crosswalk. And cross over to the bus stop there down by the Berger King. It's not that far. And it's the only safe way. To cross that road. So, were there any discussions with fee trans? As far as putting in a crosswalk closer. Either the light CVS or, you know, some are closer than the McDonald's. It wasn't something they requested. And I don't think there's really an appropriate place along the frontage of this particular property. If you were going to put it anywhere, you'd put it at the light up here, because it would involve retiming the light and, and it would be a V trans project because it'd be totally within that right of way. Right. You know, folks could need to, like Rick was saying, walk in the bike lane, which I understand is an ideal down to the McDonald's here in the Berger King where there are bus stops on both sides of the road and appropriate crosswalks. Thank you. I think we'll be able to see the whole route 302 core to be a lot more pedestrian friendly. But I'm not sure that this application prompts that. To start the right direction. Is everyone all right with the applicant only making a putting sidewalk in front of the new improved area. Yes. I think I mean there's nothing to connect it to the other direction. But I heard that there's a condition that with future development it'll be further. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And of course any future development will be back in front of board for review anyway and you'll get another chance to. Review the street and circulation at that time. I don't think it's bad idea to have a commitment here though, because the future so that the future development is not necessarily, it's not going to be in the right direction. Right. For a sidewalk in front of this property. Brian, that sidewalks entirely within the right of way of the state of Montezana. It is. Yes. Brian, I sent you that are now standard agreement. So this. So. If you spoke into your client about that. Select board has it on their agenda for. June 21st. Yeah. I think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea for you folks to sign that agreement and get a signed copy. So they have it for themselves on the 21st. Yep. And we did discuss it. And that does not be a problem. So we can get it to you. For that select board meeting. Were you planning on marking the, what do you plan on doing at the, where the crosswalk. Crosses the entrance way. Yeah. We. I have not showing it, but certainly we can. Yes. I believe that was kind of a condition of B trans, but I'm there because they don't talk about the main menu for you. Manual for you. Trim control. Trim control device. Excuse me. And I believe that requires it. The first driveway you market. Sure. The one where I had a sidewalk on both sides. Yeah. The one does have both sides. Anything else on. Access and circulation. If not landscaping and screening. Yes. So we have Paul Simon here. He's the landscape architect for the project. And I am going to get the. I'm going to ask him to describe. The design. Thanks, Brian. Hello, everybody. Hi. So basically what we've done is followed the regulations on the landscape requirements. And if you look at the, how we listed it out in the upper right hand corner of the landscaping sheet. We first started off with the front yard landscaping and, you know, we took the measurement of the 343.3 feet and provide, you know, show the required trees and then the provided required trees and provided trees with the exception, of course, of the waiver area that we just discussed for the sidewalk. We're asking for the same thing on the landscaping. So if you can see towards the bottom of the sheet where we are, we're going to get the same thing on the side of the sidewalk. We're going to get the same thing on the side of the sidewalk. And then we're going to get the same thing on the shelves across the curb cut from V trans to the right a little bit so we can maintain some of that character, but then end it at some point. And so we're less than a sidewalk, but we're about 222 feet from one I counted. From that marking where the waivers requested. We provided an image of that in the upper left hand corner, but as you all may be familiar, that open green is just spectacular as it is. So we feel that trying to maintain that street tree presence would actually detract from what you currently have. So we'd like to maintain that and are requesting the same waiver that they are for the sidewalk. We are for the landscaping. So when we go back to the frontage street tree requirements, we deducted that 222 feet. And then we're for the rest of the site where we're showing the required street trees. So we have for frontage trees and frontage shrubs, we have the FT and the FS indicated, and that's just showing what your regulations require and then what we're providing. So we're providing at least that minimum amount. So we have the seven street trees that are required. We have a minimum requirement of 35. So, you know, front yard shrubs, we have 40. And then after the frontage, front yard landscaping requirements, we have the, the next section called for building perimeter calculations. And then we calculate the perimeter of the buildings and then you have a required number of shrubs that are required for, for those building found building shrubs. And that's what the BS has indicated there. So we have 58 required shrubs there and we're showing 84. And we show that same symbol throughout the plan, where the BS shrubs are. And then in addition, you have a parking lot landscape calculation requirement for parking lot trees and parking, depending on the number of parking spaces, you have also parking shrub requirement as well. So that met as well. We have, I guess five minimum required trees were showing six and three minimum shrubs were showing 15 there. So we provided a legend as well to show the front yard trees, the front yard shrubs, the building shrubs required, the parking area trees required in the parking shrubs required. And we felt because we are working quickly on this, we're not placing all the regulation requirements right on a plan would be helpful to you. So we have additional landscaping there as well. So if it's not in a box that shows what's required, it's there. Like we have the wildflower northeast wildflower mixture on the tighter slope because we feel that's a little bit tighter than, than to mow. And we thought that that would be attractive. And that's kind of the backdrop to that area that, you know, we have a small plaza where, where the seating wall is. So we thought that'd be nice. And we have additional shrubs and pernials on the plan as well. So I'm happy. Oh, in addition, there's a screening requirement too for areas that have, you know, like dumpsters and enclosures and things like that. There's actually some on the north, on the property south of this. So we thought adding some hemlock trees and, um, some, uh, a large landscaping plan or space there would be good for that. Um, so, um, yeah. You're happy to answer any questions on it. This is to her. Where? Um, are there any, um, line of sight issues either exiting this property onto the highway or, uh, to from tour warehouse. Yeah. So we didn't show the triangular, uh, cones, but they'd be actually further out because you'd pass the sidewalk. So our, our landscaping is not even in the V transit. It's, it's back on the property and so that frontage is there, you know, on, on, I guess the property side of that sidewalk. So it wouldn't be in any conflict. And what we also did was make sure the shrubs are further in from those curb cuts as well. So. Okay. Thank you. I have a question for Rick, but first of all, I'd like to say it's nice plan. You do nice work. So the common area to the right that we don't see, or it's not a common area. It's an area that you don't want to address with landscaping. Will it be a common area with maybe picnic tables and something else or some, a gazebo structure or something out there? Or. I mean, will there be children living at this site? It would be a pretty neat facility for those kids. If you had some sort of fence or something blocking it off from the, the highway. I just, what's your thoughts for that, that common space? I think that people are going to naturally go there. And you're tough. Are you referring to the, the big grassy area? Yes. What's, what's up with that right now, Rick? Yes. Well, I hadn't actually, I mean, when I think of people relaxing. On the site outside, I think of it more. On the main part of the site behind the motel buildings or. On the main part of the site, I believe we even have a little patio behind the house as well. So my mind has more gravitated in that direction. And I mean, and the other advantage of that is there's some buffering from the traffic on, on route 302. So, so I don't, we didn't have any plans or really any discussion about encouraging recreation over there. And to answer your question about children. No, this is adults only on the site. Nice botchy ball court. Well, you did that right. Yeah. All kinds of things. Yeah. I think Tom's point is a good one in terms of, you know, what the ambience of the area is for. I understand there's no real, you know, I mean, I think it's important to have to do all of the landscaping in there, particularly if you're thinking of redeveloping that, and then having to take that landscaping out. But, but you know, just making a, putting a few benches in just someplace to people could sit. I guess. And, and, and I don't know what, whether there's any way to buffer the noise of the highway. To create a little bit more privacy. In that spot, but it's, it's unusual. It's unusual. It's unusual. It's unusual. Which is otherwise pretty hilly. Once you start going behind the, the motel. Climbing the hill. So. So I should point out that there, we are intending to put some seating on the patio here in between. And then there's a significant flat lawn in between the top of these stairs and the house. As well as they're planning to do some patty or as the things out behind the building. So I think it's a good idea to get that area out of the way. And then to have the area, the area of the area that's going to be a little bit more divided for people to gather on this portion of the site. And even though this is a big grassy flat area, it's not that pleasant to stand in just because cars are going by coast to you all the time. So, you know, our intention is to provide outdoor gathering space, but we're not going to probably put it right. I don't think we're going to encourage people to go over on this Um, school for this project to start thinking about how to use that area when we without giving you consideration how people access it and, and what the considerations on whether you got to 302. Josh, Josh Tom Bachman here. One thing we had talked about Paul Simon has done a really nice job I think landscaping this island. It's out in front. And because we've got screening between the sidewalk and the Barry Montpelier road, we had always envisioned there could easily be a couple picnic tables out there, because it's kind of a self contained era and I could see people deciding to gather there too. Nice idea. The area also at the, at the top that Brian pointed out is pretty large in front of the residents and the elevation remembers quite different. And so the views up there are incredible. So that's another good spot as well. So, and I'd encourage people to use spaces like these two, instead that that are a little bit more buffered and away from the vehicular activities. Okay, we're, we're getting on here so I'm going to try to move this along. There's no further questions of landscaping screening I do think Paul did a very nice job with this. And what are you doing later tonight. My yard's mess, but but no, any other questions on landscaping. It's reasonable to not landscape that, that, that nor the least section, it led to the fact that it's not being developed this time. And frankly, it looks just the owner has a very nice job of maintaining the last evening he does have outdoor lighting. So we're proposing six pole 16 pole lights, which are located only zoom in a little bit indicated with number one on plan. So there's three there are lighting the parking lot and then three that like the driveway up to the, to the existing residents. So there'll be new, there's a porch along the front of the motel so there'll be new lighting underneath the roof of the porch here, which is indicated with number three. And then, going up the stairs inside the railings on the stairs there's going to be some LED strip lighting that's inserted into the bottom of the railing, just to provide some some safety lighting for going up and down the stairs at night. Let's see, all the exterior lighting will be led warm color temperature downcast and cut off or mounted under overhangs pole lights are mounted at 18 and a half feet above grade. And average light levels in the parking in the drive areas are 1.1 and 1.6 foot candles. So we'll control the lighting with both a photo cell and a timer. So they'll turn on a desk based on the photo cell, then at 11pm will have them dim to 50% on the timer. And just due to the nature of this use we would like to keep the lighting at 50% for the remainder of the night just so there's some visibility on the site. Did you have a sliding site plan. If you close the lights and there's also a photometric plan as well. You do have a photo. Okay, you do. Okay. Yep. Any reason you didn't submit that. I believe that we did. Do we get it. There is some lighting stuff. Certainly, it was certainly our intention to submit it and if you didn't get a copy than that was just an error on our part. So there's a number of plans that aren't here that could have been here. Oh, I apologize about that. I thought that you have what I had. Sorry, 43 years of engineering. Comes in here. Yeah, it's. Well, I'm asking that question. Did you have an existing conditions site plan. We did not prepare an existing conditions plan for this particular site. I'm accustomed to you doing that. Yes, I'm also accustomed to it. I looked for it. Yeah, as I said, this particular project we were under some immense time pressure because of the funding. Being the first round of COVID money, which has a deadline of occupation by the end of this year. And so it's been a very compressed timeline to what we usually would like for a project like this. Yes, if there are things that you used to getting and then I typically provide and you didn't get them, I apologize. It's just this plan, the four metric plan would provide that. Yeah, absolutely. And again, I'm sorry that you don't already have it. The problem with these without the existing conditions site plan it was difficult to see what you were demolitioning and what you want. I looked on the Google maps for the existing. Yeah, but if you hadn't had that available to you, you'd be hard pressed to figure out what's going on. Any questions on lighting. Comments on lighting. This is Josh just to comment I like the, the plan to dim the lights at night me frequently we struggled with the notion of having lights on or off. So dimming them it makes it a good suggestion to, you know, cut things down you'll still have some light for critical, you know, needs, but not as much as you would have throughout the night. So, good suggestion, good recommendation. Signs I understand you'll be applying for that at a later date. You dismayed having one sign multiple signs just out of curiosity. I don't know that we have crossed that bridge yet. Maybe Rick or Nick for if you know more about that than me. That's fine. That's fine. We don't need it. We don't need speculate. I thought you might already have a plan. Performance standards. Yeah, we're not anticipating any significant impacts under under the performance standards. Okay. So we're not anticipating any significant impacts under under Rosie control and stormwater treatment. Yep, so there's other than the front there's not a lot of the site is getting disturbed. So we will be under any kind of disturbance but the project will follow the low risk the an hour low risk site handbook. So we're we're essentially improving the stormwater situation here by just removing parking anywhere we can that that's not needed and transferring over to landscaped and other pervious areas. Now, as you're aware, we already have a stormwater problem on there. I'll tell you a road. Where's the stormwater go. The stormwater goes into the, the closed range system under route 302. So essentially it all drains down to this disconnection of the trans access put in and then into their closed range system. And that read that that open connection does not read providing the attention does it minimal. Yeah. You are reducing the amount of purpose area is all of it go into those into that storm the great system or does other flow in other directions. There is like there's a section of the driveway over here. Well no actually no because of B 71 where it flow directly under the road before we're now collecting it and sending it into the closed range system so there is a swale behind the motel that cuts off the stuff coming down the hill. But that eventually ends up in it in the closed range system as well through an existing culvert on this portion of the site. The envelope portion of the site I think will continue to drain directly under the roadway I don't believe there's any. Sir water structures over in that area. We give some purpose area to have total. That is a good question. It's less than one but I don't have the number right off hand. You think the total impervious areas less than one acre. I believe it is let me see if I could find that number for you real quick. This may take a minute. It might be. I mean I think it's fine that it's all going into the storm grain system that eventually ends up in the state of Vermont system but we do have a problem with excess strong water drainage on a very mobile road. So I'm just trying to see. I didn't see it. I didn't see any real opportunities for you to do anything about that. Yeah it's it's another one of those sites where the grade comes down to the road with little opportunity for for really adding a lot of treatment, which is why I said it was our intention to reduce the amount of storm or impervious area. I'm sorry I'm, I'm scratching through my files here because I know I've written down somewhere. It wasn't in your testimony so. No, it wasn't. Let's see I think this is a bit old but it may get away while we're waiting Rick is this subject act to 50. No, no it is not. We've had a determination on that career. Yes, we have. It was it was it was meant to be a casual question it wasn't direct. You are you are decreasing the amount of purpose area and that is appreciated. I didn't know if there's any else we could do and there's some opportunities to do some stuff with that open area to the north, but we would have to reroute a lot of storm water to get there. Yeah, and, you know, because there's limited drainage structure along 302 especially the north there, you break basically have to bring it over there and bring it back and I'm not sure how physically feasible that would be. Also, I thought under this criteria don't we have impact on community. Yeah, that's what I was wondering. So, we do have comments from the police chief. Can you reach out to the chief of police. You're muted Rick. Yes, we've talked several times and we also discussed that question at two select board meetings. And I provided the select board with some statistics on police calls from our other facilities. And as a way of addressing that. Right, but you're done with the RV now. Oh, okay. Well, I'm not sure what your question is actually. I was asking really what, what is the impact of this criteria. I'm now scratching here. I could maybe speak to this lovely Bob I think. Chief Ponker Von didn't provide written testimony. He met with Rick several times on this project. I attended some of the select board meetings where Rick and the chief spoke and the concerns was the impact that the hilltop has my sense speaking to the chief that he is significantly more pleased with this. Effort here than what's happening at the hilltop and he but I don't believe he's applied any written testimony to that event. And do we have any comments from fire department. Did you reach out to fire department. I did. You know, you did. I did. And I did what I did not receive anything. Building codes. Any requirements for sprinkler systems. I'm not sure what the requirements are, but we are planning to sprinkle all three buildings. And we did do a walk through the project for the state fire marshal. Dan Barnowsky. At what size main serves the project area for sprinklers. The existing owners had the foresight a few years ago to have a six inch main drilled under route 302 so there's already an existing six inch water main from the Montpelier system on the property. So essentially we're just going to extend that to the three buildings. And good Sam reached out and acquired additional wastewater allocation from the public support. We have the additional location for water and water also water is water is water is coming from in Montpelier but we're in the process of getting allocation from them. Well as you are. Which would seem to me that the system development was under allocated for both water and sewer. Yeah, I did certainly see that way. Yeah. Yes, go ahead. Any discussions with Berrytown EMS the animals provider. Increasing calls. You know I'm sure that a lot of the residents probably not in the best of health especially like in the winter. In the emergency case, you know, possible hypothermia and fight and pneumonia and things like that. Well we didn't specifically speak to them about this project we have a good working relationship with them and that we know them and I mean, you know that that question. I think our first the most important thing we can do is keep in touch with what people's health and wellness is. I don't want to rely on emergency services to address things that can be addressed otherwise but there are certainly instances when that happens people are going to be living there. So. They're close to the hospital. Yeah. Yes, I just want to clarify time you did send us an email that came from the chief. Chief. Yeah. Yes. Can you refresh my mind? He says he's spoken to the director at length and he his concerns were addressed basically. Thank you. And he doesn't see any kind of issues we have that he doesn't see the kind of issues that he would he's seeing it. He doesn't see it. He doesn't see it. He doesn't see it at the hilltop. He doesn't anticipate that. That's what I read it reiterated. That was my memory. Thank you. Yeah. And, and as I understand it, there's no smoking allowed. Or within the buildings. That's correct. Okay. Is there anything further you want to add to this testimony. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I wish I had something really stunning to say at this point, other than we really appreciate your consideration. We know that this is a special case and. We're trying to put forward a real project that's going to be a true, you know, an asset to the community and. That the impact will be a positive impact and not a negative impact. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for everything else you wanted to speak to you. You've been attending today. Morgan Brown. Nothing. No, I'm just observing. Thank you. All right. Thank you. I just want to say on behalf of the town of Berlin. Thank you for your effort. You put forth. You guys reached out. Very, very early. In this process and that's much appreciated. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If there is. No other questions. For the applicant. I would entertain a motion to close his hearing. This is true. Second, Josh. Just not a motion. All those. Please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Opposed. This hearing is closed. We thank you very much. All for your presentation tonight. Thank you. Thank you for your time. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have one other item of business for our meeting tonight. There I am. What? Oh yeah, we have two. Let me deal first with the minutes of the meeting of June 1. I had made some comments on. If others did. But I know that Christie went ahead and revised it to reflect comments. Any comments or questions with regard to the minutes of June 1. Motion to approve. Move this to tour. Tour. Second by Polly. Discussion. All those in favor of that motion, please signify by saying hi. Hi. And the minutes as revised. Are approved. Thank you. So Tom would like to discuss an item with us tonight. Governor. Yesterday, the. We're required to meet in person again. So. Today was a test run of that. We'd encourage all board members if they are so inclined to meet in person. Minimal requirements are one staff member, one. Committee member at the meeting. So at the next, at the next. Developer review board meeting. It will be a live session. But we'll continue to have a zoom. I'll be there. I'll be there. I knew the day would come. Frankly, I'm, it may be easier for me to participate by zoom than it did to attend, but. Well, as long as it's hybrid, you can do that. Yes. Yeah. I think we've learned something here that. We can do hybrid. We still got some technological issues we'd copy with, but we'll get there. How is this new system working for you guys? Good. Fine. It's good. Yeah. So the next meeting will be a regular scheduled open meeting. But. So probably people responding ought to let us do that. Yeah. I think we've learned something here that we can do hybrid. So we've learned a lot. So the next meeting, we'll be a regular scheduled open meeting. We'll be a regular scheduled open meeting. I mean, we'll be a regular open meeting. People responding ought to let us know whether or be responding by attending my zoom or attending in person. Be helpful for us to know that. You're going, you're going to require at least all those who attend in person have their vaccinations. Right. Wow. That is not a requirement. Not a requirement. Okay. But I would certainly hope that you'd have. Yeah. So can you, if someone, if the presenter is in the room, can they still share the screen with the people that are, how does that work? They would have to bring a laptop mute themselves on it. And though we were having a little bit of difficulty with that earlier tonight, something we'd have to work through. And then they would not be sharing a screen if they're here in person, right? Well, that's what I'm wondering is how people at home, I'm wondering how people on Zoom. People at home will see the screen. They show up here. I mean, worst case scenario is they'll have an exhibit to present on a board. A better case scenario would be there to be a way to put it on with share with a share function. I think I've been in other meetings with Zoom where we've accomplished that. Okay. I'd have to scratch back. I didn't do it, trust me. But yeah. I don't think that the presenters, you know, they're, most of them are professionals. They, most of them would know how to do that. And the question is, do we? It takes really two people if you're going to do something like that. Yeah. Well, I guess there'll be occasions where some of us will want to attend remotely. Yeah. Rather than just be on a telephone, I think it's a heck of a lot easier if we can do it with Zoom, so. Telephone doesn't work really. No. You feel separated. At least Zoom, you can see people. Yeah, but we can work, we can work out the bugs. You know, other towns are doing this too, so. I'm planning on attending future meetings. I thought I'd come up here tonight as a trial. So. I had one other thing I just wanted to mention in passing if we have no further discussion on that item. I'm going to be, I've been asked to attend the site board meeting as chair in on the 21st to talk about how things are going with the DRB. So the site board is, and as Carla knows us already, site board is trying to meet with every, every board or every chair of every board and committee that they have and just sees, see how things are going. So I'm letting you know that the agenda will be out from the select board. I think it's seven 40 or something like that that night. I'm on the agenda to speak to that I'll be speaking to that and also the regional planning commission and the regional transportation advisory committee but. Good. Everybody feels like joining us by a zoom or, or in person, let us know. Okay. We're going. I don't pretend to speak from the whole board. Okay. What's that. Deliberative session. Would we like to go into the liberal session on this application tonight. No. No, we wouldn't just watch. I second that. We're going to have a quick bathroom break in the second session. All those in favor of that motion, please identify by saying. Okay, I have closed. We're going to remove the media. And we have a quick bathroom break. Please go ahead. That is one of the disadvantage of being here is you can't just, you know, I'm left to do that is adjourned. They're back. They're back. Yeah. So is there any other business company for this board tonight. No. Motion to adjourn. There you go. Motion has been made to adjourn by Carlos second by Polly. Thank you. There's no special. I keep doing that. I don't think that motion pleased to whoever was saying hi, Hi. Opposed the motion. And we are adjourned. Thank you all very much. Thank you.