 Yeah. Hello and welcome to the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on WOZO Radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We're recording this on Sunday morning, January 8th, 2023. I'm sorry, January 15th. That was last week. January 15th, I'm Larry Rhodes, your doubter five. And as usual, we have our co-host Wombat on the line with us. Hello Wombat. I'm the Wombat. Shoot first, ask second, and then apologize third because shooting is bad. There you go. And our guests today are Dred Pirate Higgs from Western Canada. Welcome. Hi. And the John Richards is attempting to come back in. He was here a minute ago. He had some video problems. Yeah. Doesn't concern the radio audience. Apple computers, right? Yeah, yeah. Digital Freethought Radio Hour is a talk radio show about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism and the sciences. And conversely, we'll also talk about religion, religious faiths, gods, holy books and superstition. And if you get the feeling that you're the only nonbeliever in your town, why are you just not here in Knoxville in the middle of the Bible Belt, we have a group of over a thousand of us. It's the biggest society of Knoxville, ISK. And we'll tell you more about them after the mid-show breaks and be sure to stick around. Wombat, or maybe I should say Dred, what's our topic today? Well, we can talk about a couple of things, but I guess what makes this happen? Oh, I love it. We have this great term which originates in ancient Greece, I believe it began with Aristotle, and it's called eudaimonia. And it relates to what is human flourishing or what contributes to human flourishing. So it's a great term. It's time for a revival, a eudaimonia revival. And I love, I want to, what I love to do is flourish into the topic of how we can flourish. But before we do that, Dred, I can't go a week without your daily invocation. How about we get into it? As you will. Appreciate it. Our newly lord, who art in a colander, I'll daunte be thy noodles. Thy blood be rum, thy sauce be yum with meat, as it is with vegetables. Give us this day our garlic bread, and forgive us our cussing, as we forgive those who cuss against us. And lead us not into ketoism, but deliver us some carbs. For thine are the meatballs, and the sauces, and the grog, whenever and ever. Amen. Okay, guys, that was great. Nice and silly. I love it. All right. John Richard, so glad to see you back. Speaking of things. A phone because I've had all sorts of problems. And now my, my mouse was run down. It's a battery operated Wi-Fi. So I'm recharging my mouse. Otherwise I can't use my desktop. This happens when you, I don't join in with you guys for a whole month. No sweat. I'm glad to see you either way. Like I'm, you, you, you, you got through it and you're forcing. So guys, I would like to catch up on everyone because it has been a while for John Richard's. I know you got a lot on your plate. I'll just throw this out. I want to volunteer at a vex robot competition as a judge of vex robot is an engineering competition for elementary middle and high schools where they build robots with unknown challenges. Set ahead. And then when the challenge is unveiled, the kids have to come together, work together, figure out a way to modify their general robot to be perfect for the particular challenge, whether it's slapping a disc hockey style or shooting a ball into a basket or lifting up a load and dropping it off in a very specific location without any manual control. It's a really interesting competition. And it's cool to see all these little kids already start to ask themselves engineering questions that they'll see in the industrial world. And so what we did as judges, myself and members of my staff, we went down. We, we didn't coach, but we helped a lot of the kids think through a lot of the design problems and overall rated their success and ability to work together as a team. It was a really rewarding chance for every all of us like participate in like the next generation of engineers that would be coming up. Yeah, potentially we may even hire. So I love it. I love it. It was just a really good rewarding experience. Very nice. Very good. Thanks. Appreciate it. Larry Rhodes, what's on your book. Well, don't, don't you dare tell me the thing that I wish I could be doing all my time just playing. I'm working most of the time. I still work a 40 hour away from home. But I've been playing Star Citizen lately. It's a pre-release. So it's still kind of buggy and slow, but it's a lot of fun. Nice. And it's, it's very realistic. It has great graphics, excellent graphics. I wish I could run them at full speed, but I have a challenge and my computer graphics cards. The game to come out right. So yeah, that's awesome though. I hope you keep enjoying and check out some other cool games. I recommend them to you as it come forward, but like No Man's Sky, Star Child, Mass Effect. I don't know if you played that, but there's a lot of stuff in the space that we can get you into. Cool. Jared Power Higgs, how you been? Been well, been well. I've been doing good. Yes. My, yeah, I've got a couple of things coming up end of the month. My court case where I will be vindicated for this. Vindicated. Well, yeah, it's an ongoing thing with, with the police. But that's another story. I, I did get contacted yesterday by the president of the clergy project. And it turns out that he is in fact a pastor for you. And I guess they right now they have 1225 participants in the clergy. Yeah. Actually, they are actually hosting a big event in Vancouver on the 28th of this month and I've been invited. So I may go there representing the church of the Flying Spirited Monster, British Columbia. And getting more clergy project. Pastor farians involved. So, I love it. Great. Very excited. Yeah, I can, I can give you an update on that because I got a contact from not the president, but another director of the clergy project and had him on our show free thought. Free thought only yesterday. And he was a great, great guy. He started out as a Christian raised by parents who are heavily involved in the Anglican church. Oh, that's you call it the Episcopalian I think over where you are. And he eventually became a missionary for the Christian church and spent 25 years in China. So five years there. He became an atheist. And now he is a key leader in in the clergy project and, and CFI, you know, the, you know, the center for skeptical inquiry. Right. I hope I hope nothing but flourishing in the future in the near future, hopefully too. And speaking of forcing, you know, I'm looking forward to a lot of you the morning. We're going to make that we got to make it into a really awesome rap song first, get hooked into the younger generation and catch on to it but yeah. I think they're developing a treatment for it actually. It's a cream that you apply. John Richards, I'm so glad. You realize that there's cracks in the armor of Apple, right. Like, it's just not this model at the perfection that we all seem to think for grants. It's cracks in the armor of the operator. That's the problem with real. That's a lot of problems with religions is like hey there's probably got no it's me. I'm the center. I'm the problem is like no it's the God it's you know what the God's what come on. Okay, I'll give you another chance to like re or so I see the Apple keyboard I see the iPhone I see the Apple watch is falling apart. I'm saying it's a house of cards what else can we say. John Richards, it's been a month since I've seen you though how you been. Fine. Thank you very much. You had a great family Christmas mostly for the kids of course and and and we are not sure whether to describe it as lucky or unfortunate to have lots of children. And where have I gone from there well I then took a couple of weeks off really from internet stuff. Since then, I've been very active. I've been quite prolific making little short videos, sciencey videos explaining how evolution works and how science works in two or three minutes and I've stacked them on the YouTube channel free thought channel. And it's, it's working. I'm getting more subscribers more views. Yeah, I'm pleased. I love it. I love it. And it's the sort of stuff that needs to be normalized. You know, when you may not realize this but like when I was a kid in the 90s. A little thing called Pokemon came out. And the crazy thing about Pokemon was that every parent hated it, called it the devil called it Satan worship, and we're also throwing up the idea that it be a ball. It's like they use evolution in a video game for children. And in my head it's like wire. I was in California at the time it's like why are you, why, why is that a bad thing I thought everybody understood what evolution was I didn't know I didn't contextualize it with a bad thing. It was just some things that a lot of parents had a problem with. But thankfully the the invisible hand pushed Pokemon to like a level where it was untouchable through the, the ire of, you know, soccer moms and terrible dad and and made it where it's like evolution is our household name everyone knows it everyone kind of understands it. And instead of fighting it what Christians just did was said well there's two different kinds of evolution, or maybe three different kinds there's the macro on the mini macro and micro we're going to have to like obfuscate the facts, instead of ignore them, just so that we can maintain some sort of leverage. I'm hoping that over time, as kids educate themselves. And because it might be the best way for them to get out of these like indoctrinated circles is to realize that there isn't really a difference between these two different levels it's all one system and the more consistent and and broader your system is the less of a double standard you might be operating under and I think that's there's also there's also a tendency to oversimplify it. I mean, you know, like Ken Ham is, you know, his big boat there, just it's like a straw man, they straw man, the whole evolution or evolutionary theory right to this. You know, like it is as it's a true straw man where you know you absolutely a picture of your grandfather looking like an ape, you know, and saying, Well, I wouldn't want my ancestors looking like this or some stupid thing. Yeah, and the whole thing is why do people go to the gym so they can look like a realist like what's the whole idea behind it. It's cool. First of all, and then second of all, that's how evolution works to begin with Larry. What do you think? Well, it's not just evolution. I think that if you'll find that anything, any big thing that goes like really viral for kids, you'll find church is saying that's the devil that's of Satan, mainly because it's distracting the kids from learning the rebel, the religion, right, distracting them from thinking about sin and salvation and Jesus, right. And they just, they can't have that kind of competition for the next generation that they're right. Yes, I wonder if they brought out a game, which was Jesus based, you know, and you played this game and eventually Jesus came back, and it was wonderful. Would they like that. What makes me wonder is, there's been a movie come out recently which is, what's it called the antique the return of the antichrist is what the chat says. Yeah, yeah. And so this guy, this, this Christian actor has is publicizing it by coming out with statements like, I think the return of Jesus is looming. Okay, looming. So I'll tell you this right now, there was a show where that had Jesus come back. And it was played as straight as possible to an extent but it was called Black Jesus. It was on Comedy Central. And it's just like, Jesus comes back from Nazareth, he's still got the roba, the robes, still has like the sandals. He's got the holes he's ready to go but he's black and people were like, No, not ours. Sorry. Sorry. What are you talking about? I'm literally the guy. You want me to turn some juice from water? I can do that right now. Boom, boom, boom. Let me walk on water. Like why aren't you guys believing me? It's just like, I don't know. It's just something, something to put a finger on. Maybe we can put a finger on it but we just don't like it. I don't know. It's just not what we honor it. It doesn't fit our worldview. It doesn't fit our worldview. Sorry. Like the trend has moved forward. So guys, our chat has also mentioned that my mom also believes Pokemon is the devil. That is from Popcorn. Appreciate the chat. Also, a quick question from the chat is a game recommendation for Larry that you should play Sea of Thieves if you like, if you want it, or if you were considering like No Man's Sky or Star Child. It's not a game that takes place in space, but it does run on lower end computers. And it's all about being a pirate and you might be, you might enjoy it. And then also, I'll check it out. Famous Jesus movies. There was a question for you, John Richards on what was your thoughts on the passion of the Christ as a movie about Jesus? Yeah, I haven't, I haven't seen it. Of course I've heard a lot about it. It's a movie, guys. Yeah, yeah. Just be violent. Good point. Good point. I have not, I don't think, they played it in school, believe it or not, when I was in, yeah, and not on the, on ironic sense. It was just like, hey, we have an hour to kill. Would you guys mind if I play a movie? And I was like, oh, cool. What's it going to be? And then it started being the passion of Christ and I was like kind of checked out, but I was Christian back then, even back then I was like, I'd rather learn stuff than watch this thing in class. Anyway, guys, I did not flourish under watching the passion of the Christ in school. I want to be happy. And I thought that might be a good topic for us to talk about like what makes us happy because you if you ask the internet what makes an atheist happy you might Google it or bring it unfortunately and get results such as they like to eat babies they like to sacrifice goats in the wrong way. They don't call their moms on their birthdays. Like, what are the terrible things that atheists do that we can buck that trend or that impression and what can we just simply explain what makes us happy. And I like to go on a round table discussion on that real quick. Larry, what do you think you go first what what what makes you happy as an atheist. I think it depends. It just from different person to person I think whatever makes us happy but generally even flourishing in progress. You know, value education we value humanity per se we we want the best for our neighbors. Just, if we make a better society we get benefits of a better better society. Absolutely. Well said. Yeah, the better we can make the world better and still be alive in the world the better for us to rise and tide list all boats, basically. All right. So, dread you know you got the heavy topic so let's go to go to John there if you want John what makes you happy. Yeah, well, I'm thank you for coming to me because I'm an English functional Apple products. I'm an Englishman, and I don't do emotions. I, I just do sanguine. Okay, very cool very cool and dry humor too right. Yes. Okay, you guys you guys wrote the book on that you have the British wit British wit, but obviously you know you do a lot of social activity you you definitely contributed a lot in terms of the free Yeah, like you enjoy. I like, I do I like I like people. I'm a social animal and extreme social animal you could say. And so I'm very keen to interact and engage and just just, you know there's a new breed of dogs. They've been they've been crossed with a couple of other breeds. And they are there crossed with an intention of making them very empathic very friendly, lovely pets. And what they've done is they've taken poodles and spaniels, which already showed some of those characteristics, smush them together. And they've come out. They've come out with these dogs are so dependent upon human contact. They've been redesignated Velcro dogs. Because they suffer from anxiety separation separation anxiety. Because my my Jack Russell does suffers from that if there isn't someone in the room. And that's why I always ask you guys if you can hear when she's I'm not around. Yeah, my mother had poodles it was the same way. I am playing a game called Game Deck right now it's a RPG that takes place in like a cyberpunk world. Think of it as just like you can dial into a computer other people dial into a computer, but there's a conceit in the game where you can make friends with other humans who are playing the game, or you can make your own friend you you pay money to a company as like DLC or like downloadable content, and they will make a character in the game that fits your specifications that has the rights that has awareness. It's an AI, but it's your character and that care can be or hate you to be anything you want. And then there's the question of, Okay, is this okay. I mean, is this right. Is this. I mean, like, it's it's not a real thing but like, is it okay like is that healthy for the human being who was enacted that. And I'm thinking like, is it good to make dogs that need to have humans like or is there, is there a boundary that we're beginning to cross there if we haven't crossed it already john which is what do you think I see such a parallel between making your own AI character and choosing your own God, because you know, nobody else is God is quite the God you want. That's why the religions have all broken up into different cults and sects and denominations. So many, I think there's something like 30,000 different denominations of Christians at the last count and of course that's not including the new one in Australia, which the new branch of Anglicanism which fell out with the original branch of Anglicanism in Australia, because they can't agree whether to marry or bless homosexual unions. So, you know, this is exactly the same thing this is me saying my what I want. I want exactly these characteristics, exactly these properties on my chosen God or AI friend in in the game. You see, I also agree. Yeah, like, if you, man, it's just the weirdest thing. If you drive down the street, where I'm at, just the street the least my home you're going to cross two churches. And like I said, my commute is very, very short, but there'll be two churches. But if I drive deeper into downtown, I'm crossing seven churches in fact, if I want to give you directions of where I live. I'd be like, take a left that passion of the assembly, and then go past the blessed Union of Holies, and then turn left at the God's chosen lambs of the future, and then pass the bypass of the chosen ones it's like, it's all just different versions of the same God a couple of blocks away from each other, because they don't like that flavor and they can go somewhere else like why are there so many different along the way there be snakes. It's, it's a question. It's a great point is we want like potato chips basically. Yeah, yeah. This is a whole indication that God is man made, just like your AI character in that game, or if there is one God, the probability that you're going to get that one based on just what your parents followed or what country you're running money you had at the time or what you're exposed to in your time period is astronomically low that you're not. Just from the sheer number of religions on the planet. It's like one in 10,000. Yeah, yeah, your fault or is that the God's fault for not contacting you at that point. Why religions have to have strong, strong sanctions to prevent people from leaving, because they know the tendency to do that is high. So, so they've got to have severe punishments to keep you in the flock, keep you under control. Guys, I'm buckled up. And speaking of like, keeping us from leaving I'm ready to I'm ready to sit through this, this terminology. How about I share this quote with you. It's relevant. It's relevant to you. Eudemonia, E-U-D-A-I-M-O-N-I-A. Thanks. Anyway, that's what to do with human flourishing. Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, I'm reading, I'm reading, I'm working on a Kant's critique of pure reason. In doing that, I'm also reading a companion. So a Kant, a Kant companion. And so anyway, I'm working on this chapter is called the supreme principle of morality, which is written by L and W Wood. And he had this great quote, and I really, really like this. So he's talking about the principle, you know, what is the principle morality that Kant's after. And he says, as a parathetical, he says, in other words, those sentimentalists who think that what satisfies the heart, but not the head represents greater moral purity, have things exactly wrong. Where the head has been corrupted, it was the heart that corrupted it. And the first remedy for the corruption of our hearts is to learn to think in an enlightened way with our heads. But what to do, and which feelings we should allow to influence us. Right. Absolutely. I love it. And there you go. That's when you think about eudaimonia. What is it that we should allow to guide us towards an understanding of human flourishing and what it means to be happy. I still think I still think and suspect that eudaimonia could easily be neutralized by some vinegar or a zetic acid. Shut up. Yeah, sure. Stay tuned for the second half of the digital free thought radio hour on w ozio radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We'll be right back after this short break. Welcome back to the second half of the digital free thought radio hour. I'm doubter five and we're on w ozio radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. This is a moment to talk about the atheist society of Knoxville. ASK was founded in 2002. We're in our 20th year and we have over 1000 members. We have weekly in person meetings every Tuesday evening in Knoxville's old city in Barley's taproom in Pizzeria. Look for us inside at the high top tables or if it's pretty weather outside on the deck. Good evening. Zoom ask meetups. So if you'd like to join us on zoom email us for details that ask an atheist at Knoxville atheists.org, or let's chat as see at gmail.com. You can find ASK on Facebook meetup.com or just go to the website at Knoxville atheists.org. By the way, if you don't live in Knoxville you should still go to meet up and do a search for an atheist group in your town. Don't find one. Don't find start one. Well, I bet where do we want to pick up. Yo, so many places that brilliant quote that was brought over by dread reminded me of two scenarios or one concern. I'll just keep the one. I was talking with the lady who said she had a tattoo and she showed me the tattoo is like a brand new tattoo and I had three words one soul body or soul body mind. And she's like these are the three steps to like be happy and whole is like you got to take care of your soul. You got to take care of your body, and then you got to take care of your mind in that order. Larry I already know what you're going to say. In my head, I was like, I don't want to have to do the jump on topic of like whether souls are not exist, which I know Larry wants to jump on. Is it in that order she says yeah because I care about my soul that my body next in my mind I'm like, in my head I was like, I did actually say this like your mind is a product of your body. Take care of your body your mind like is going to fall apart to that should be an indication to you that these two things are related they're not like metaphysical aspect like your continuum of brain synapses of the physical thing that's inside your head is your mind you can cut off your arm you still have your mind. You mess you with your head, your mind goes away like that should be an indication. So you got to take care of your body take care of your mind you got to eat right you got to think well got to behave well there's a bunch of stuff that goes into taking care of your body. That supplementary and directly affects your mindset. And if you can do that, then maybe you can get yourself into a position where you realize that souls aren't real, and maybe you can flip the two and just be like hey I'm just going to take care of myself. You could you could even go a step further. I mean when you think about like Renee Descartes, cogito ergo some right. I think therefore I am right so that of course was dualism. The idea that mind and body are two separate and distinct entities. Monus, of course, believe that it's all just one and the same thing. Mind or consciousness is just an emergent property of being in the world has no other significance outside of the body. I mean, without a body you don't have a mind so the distinction in that case as a monist is irrelevant. And most people think in dualist terms, because it's convenient, but fundamentally so we are monist or that's fine. Yeah, I agree. I support that. Larry, what do you think one complex thing rather than a much separate small less complex is like no that's I'm just going to be a technical technicality here before you could have your head in a jar. And you wouldn't have a body but you would have a line is the body, your head is the body in that case, the head would be the body. It would be all that's really needed, as long as you could support oxygen and blood to the brain and keep it working. You would still have a mind because a mind is what the brain does. You know, it produces your mind. And if you can damage to you can have a mind without the sensations of, you know, the inputs of your senses. You could use a computer to do like the old head in a jar analogy, you could use a brain to stimulate to send simulations of the sensations to your brain and it would still function. Right. Here's a thought process on it because I love this. I love this train. So like my mom has a cochlear implant with the cochlear implant. Her, her, our actual ear doesn't work her eardrum and all the ear canal does not work. She has a electronic device that takes sound from outside turns it into an electrical signal and feeds it directly to her brain. So like in a weird way, like she doesn't have her ears, but she does have like this cybernetic capability of still experiencing sound. And it's just as real to her as it is to anybody else because it's just bypassing like all the original routes. So what if we did the same thing with eyes tasting, feeling all that stuff and you'd have like a literal brain. I don't think it's that far fish of an idea. She'd still think she'd still have civil rights should still be a person but like her experience would just be digital or like based on computers rather than like through this meat space like the body can change. And, and to an aspect, how she experiences the world changes, but in my head, the mind is still a has to be grounded in a body experience and that body can be variable but it still needs to be grounded to a body. You can't just have the mind experience without the body is is my conclusion. Would you guys? Exactly. That's my shirt. And later I like that the mind is what the body does. The mind is what the brain does the brain does, which is your body have doppelganger john and real john you can't tell which is true. Yeah, but what I was going to make is you can damage the brain and it will affect your mind. You can do surgery on the brain you can take drugs and it will affect the mind but it's a chemical process that affects the resulting mind. Right. Experience. And if you look online there's actually people who are working on digital eyes right now there's a clip that you can put on your hand that sends visual signals directly to your brain. Yeah, like Jordy little forge. Like that. Yeah, it's kind of weird. I would love to see us be able to, you know, invest more time and effort into this so we can not necessarily cure. I like not I don't want to be able is but like there are some people who are like blind or like I'm cool. I'm good and some people are deaf or like I don't need a cochlear implant, but for the option for the people who don't want to be blind or don't want to be deaf, but maybe even culturally blind and deaf but still want to be able to hear and see. We have the technology to give it to them so that they have that option to be able to get there. And that's the path that I'd love for us to get into it where it's like, hey, you have that you can hear if you want to hear you can see if you want to see we have that that's not a problem blindness or for deafness it's, it's now a lifestyle. Oh, that'd be so fantastic. Anyway, we were talking about things that make you happy things that make me happy science critical thinking and delving into like matters of philosophy, believe it or not. I also like drawing to and playing games. It actually has a slightly different taste for video gaming than I do, which is totally fine you play like hardcore time intensive games. I'm more of like what can I what can I get through during a bathroom break on my phone, and then like, let's see dread on the concept of human flourishing. You know, I before we get into like the metaphysical aspects of like what makes God happy or what would make a God happy what do you think is the catch all thing that makes people happy or able to reach eudaimonia as a concept like what are we lacking right now. Wow, that will get us to that state where we can. Yeah, forcing. Well, I suppose lesser reliance on on things outside yourself. You know, if because you end up being your own desperate. Like, if the things that make you happy or things outside yourself, then it's all contingent. I mean, there's things outside yourself that you actually need to be happy food shelter, you know the essentials. So that's one of the things that I was going to mention about what do we need to make a eudaimonia like generalized in society is we need the basics. We need them to be provided for everyone. You know, whether they're rich poor or whatever they need the basics to think about being in motifs. Yeah, yeah. You know, and that's actually part of the argument towards the basic income. And I think it's coming but it may be another hundred or two years before that happens. But, you know, robots and artificial intelligence are going to take our jobs, and they're going to just do it without us. They're going to take our jobs. So we got to get. No, I mean that's good. He gives us more free time, but we need to supply right income so that people won't have to worry about their countries to do that right now. So more revolutionary change the idea of what money is to begin with maybe have come with an expiration date that way it's not just this thing that you feel like you need a horde and only give to your family rather it's just like a hey it's it's a thing that we use to to have and maintain a good state of welfare period. And it's not a thing that you need to hold on to our use for power or get extra advantages over people it's just, here's your basic needs you got it you're happy. Go have fun. Go have fun. Go be an artist and go and be an artist. And that would certainly make education more relevant to people who are otherwise accessible. Yeah, to make ends meet and, you know, shelter themselves. But if they have it becomes, you know, something within within grasp, right to educate and improve self improvement and whatnot. And so this is other things you're not having to worry about so much. And this is not an uncommon argument like back in the days when we used to give war to like beaver pelts, right beaver pelts would appreciate and fall apart over time. And people were like, you know what we can't trade pelts all the time what if we had like gold or rare metals they're harder to get but they can represent sets of things that are easier to care that are much easier to carry. You know, plus gold and silver have intrinsic value themselves you can make things out of them that are. And that started that transition then people are like, you know, this is heavy what if we just have like papers like well who's going to give out the paper because whoever gives up the paper is going to have a lot of power over us because they're controlling how we buy and feed our families and stuff like trust me it's going to work it's going to work it's going to work next you know we have like this currency. And, and, and we begin to see the, the separation of classes. And now it's like, if you asked me for buy bucks to be like who has money on. I feel bad is like, I'm sorry I don't carry cash it like my money is numbers that exist in a bank somewhere that I have access on my phone that I don't actually see I never, I don't handle money I just like swipe a card or like push a button and things show up at my house like, that's it. Well, there's the push for crypto, which is its own bag of worms, but it's like another competing concept for money. I've started getting into it. It's like what is this what does that work this is expire is it forever like what does it mean how does it value where is it's what does it mean what is it. What is it having one of these coins that are virtual mean like how, how does any of this work. And so I love that it's at least evolving, maybe more rapidly than we're aware of but maybe we can get ourselves to a better system more competing trial and error than one system where we clearly see wealth is not being distributed as with the equity that it should be, or ought to be. Alright, guys, I have a question from the chat. They'd love to know what your thoughts are on biblical angels. And do they freak you out or not. And for me, yes they do. Only if you think they're real. Only if you think they're real. They are freaky concept even like so if you showed a biblical accurate angel to a Christian, they'd freak out and they'd be like, Oh, that doesn't look like what I think an angel looks like, like a Bruce Willis with wings. Well, go go there what would it actually look like according to the Bible. According to the Bible wings. Yeah, yeah. A body that's basically a ring that has a bunch of eyes all over it makes noises that sound like seven trumpets coming out of like monster. It's a monster. What else can you say it's an ugly Pokemon speaking of Pokemon maybe that's the Even freakier than a flying spaghetti monster no no offense, hopefully meant by that but I'm just wondering like, yeah, I much prefer the flying spaghetti monster visually more interesting I think biblical angel I've heard of so much more powerful and much more much more powerful much more powerful. Let's see Larry quick thoughts from you what do you what's your thoughts on biblical accurate angels. Yeah, I think according to what you tell me I haven't really done much research on angels. But I mean, what I get from TV and movies is they're beautiful. And matter of fact, say they're supposed to be God's most beautiful angel right and if they got six wings and eyes all over their body and Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's weird. Larry's right they they on TV all kind of look like Julia Roberts but they actually pretty ugly from the biblical accurate representations, but yet Lucifer could just be like a regular schmuck of a guy like you may not necessarily be the most beautiful angel but just by the fact that he looks like an average slutty dude. He's like I don't look at I don't look as ugly as those things maybe that's why I got a step above everyone else. And if I think he said he made he Lucifer look by himself even more beautiful than God maybe God isn't a much of a look for to begin with to I'm being cheeky. Anyway, I'm being. Yeah, they're both pretty vain. They're both pretty. God even more so it's kind of funny guys, making things happy is or making people happy, making other people happy is also something that I value and the reason why I do that is because if I make an effort to make the surrounding areas around me, more enjoyable by improving the morale of the people around me, maybe other people will do the same for me. And if I'm down. I will be in an environment where people are willing to lift me up as well and that sort of reciprocity, even though it's selfishness. Or, you know, it's not truly altruistic, right. But reciprocal altruism reciprocal altruism. I find value in improving the environment that I'm in, particularly because I'm in it, right. And I like that idea so like oftentimes I'll go out I'll volunteer like I said I was volunteering this weekend because I want people to volunteer when they grow up and help kids out. I like to pick up trash, because it's, it's nice living an area that doesn't have trash all over the place and people from one and throw more trash, because they'll throw more trash trash, but they may not throw trash in a clean park right. I have fun doing that and I, I don't think we get credit for it as a this but you know what we don't. I'm not doing it for the credit I'm just doing it because it's nice to be in a nice environment. On the flip side I do find a lot of Christians love the credit. There's a lot of different things. And maybe that's where the bad rap comes from this is we don't have a very good marketing team. What do you think dread I'll throw it out to you. Do you ever do anything with reciprocal altruism in mind. Well, the whole pacifarianism thing is, is reciprocal altruism. I mean, the idea that we need to separate church and state, right, underlying mission of past pharianism. And having fun doing it making people happy. Beating the world with pasta. Yeah, let's get it on. Yeah, and dread. Oh, John, probably back let's go. It's, it's all about you kill hold me and I'll kill hold you. Dread there's an interesting notes. Oh, go for it Larry. I was just gonna say, the whole term reciprocal altruism is kind of an oxymoron. When you, when you think of altruism you doing something with that the thought of reward. Right. Yeah, but it's, it's pretty hard. I mean, it's pretty hard to argue that altruism can be anything. Right. But modified. Well, I agree. There are arguments to be made that there's no such thing as that that's a little altruism, because you're always thinking of, you know, a reward you'll get from doing it. Or even the good feeling you have, right? Like you're, you're only thing to monia, right? It is dependent on the actions you have towards others. So, right, true sense. There is no altruism. I agree. Even emotionally. Not absolute anyway. Right. Like, for example, I like it when other people are happy. I already described it. I like make other people happy. I was in heaven where I have complete, you know, access to flourish in any way I want to. As a caring person, I would be very sad for all the people who are still in hell, who will be there for eternity, dying and on fire, grinning at teeth. I could not enjoy anything I'm doing in heaven in any capacity if I know that there's billions of people in a hell dying, even if there was one person, I'd be really upset with that. It's a really great story. I forgot what it was called, but it's basically a utopia town that underneath the town inside a great, a sewer great, you can look at one person who's suffering and that person suffering powers all the lights and and the food machine. Wow. That sounds like a great story. And none of these people can really truly enjoy it. Once they know that there's that one person down there suffering, and it's sort of like, is this really utopia anymore? It's the exact same conceit with heaven. Like I can enjoy it if I'm a person that cares about other people. The only way that I could enjoy it is if you took my brain or parts of my body and destroyed it so that that part of me doesn't exist anymore. And at that point, we're not talking about me anymore. Wouldn't that actually be the ultimate shot in the fruit? Right? You know, you're up in heaven and knowing your, you know, maybe your brother who's an atheist or the kid down the street that got raped, but the rapist is in heaven because he asked for forgiveness, but that little kid isn't. That's it's crazy. It's crazy. I have friends that are just openly happily Christian and I let them know I'm atheist and we have a good time. And I ever wonder if they ever consider, yeah, but ties not going to heaven. And are they saying, well, is that ties fall or will there just be one day that I can make them turn around or what do I do with that because I'm not the only nice atheist that's out there. And the more I let you know that the more I just open your eyes to the idea that there's different kinds of people you should think about, okay, well then God's chosen few what are you going to do like what's your scenario to resolve that I'm not making your life complicated I'm just saying the system itself is really messed up. Do you remember do you guys remember when Stephen Hawking died. There was actually a lot of a lot of Christian people who were joyously triumphant notion that he was going to burn in hell. Wow. Yeah. That was right there. On the flip side. Yeah, and those and if those people do go to heaven. Imagine how terrible it would be to be in heaven when it filled with all the grammar Nazis at the world. It's like it's pronounced shot and fraya I'm sorry it's like not sure. I know how to pronounce things I was the best guy in my Bible. Oh, this is hell. I'm in hell I got into the bad place so no. What's going on in heaven it's like free Elvis Presley concerts going on 24 seven it's crazy. You should define shod and fruit though right because not doing the misfortune of other people right exactly. Yes, taking pleasure in other people's misfortune is that masochism or sadism that sadism isn't it. Even though you're not responsible for their suffering you're not directly responsible. I always mix up those two and I feel like those are important terms to know because you never know when you need to use them so like. Massachism is you say to this is you on other people it's like, okay. Here's a question for you. Why is it why is it masochism but machismo. Oh, he's coming back. He's coming back. See, he got the apple working and now he can be like now I can be in charge. I have the power. I have I have my capital building. I've charged. I've charged everything up. It's all working again. No stopping him. Guys I had a great show. I love talking to you guys I'm so glad everyone was able to come in chats happy. Everyone's good. So how about we do this, we can wrap up. I'd love to know. If there's anything you'd like to plug and you got time so anything on you because I know you got a full plate. Yeah, sure. Well, again, I'm going to try and get down to this clergy project event in Vancouver on the 28th of this month. And it is being hosted by the Center for Skeptical Inquiry. So those are two great things to check out. You were telling us before the show that they had how many members now. 225 he said so that's that's a lot of former priests and pastors and and sometimes current. I mean these are people that may still be behind the pulpit but don't believe anymore. But it's not just it's not just Christians now they've got Hindus and Mormons and JWs, you know, various different types in that 1225. And you can find them at clergy project.org. I hope I hope this can lead to an actual lawsuit or like a court case where we can just have this like officially settled out to give you an idea in 1920s. And it was was it illegal or just not allowed for an atheist, even give testimony, because to affirm that you could give testimony, you have to do so on the Bible you have to do so religiously. And our constitution clearly states that you can't force people to follow a religious dogma in any sort of context. So when the atheists complain they're just like well then you just can't give testimony because of XYZ it's like that's not legal you can't do that we have to fight just to be able to be in a court and affirm who we were and say we will give you fair testimony but we're not going to do so on the blood of a guy that we don't even think exists. I'll just tell you that you can, I'm going to I'm going to give you the fair testimony, put me under perjury if I'm lying, but I'm willing to do so but I'm not going to affirm with a forced on religion. You know, in Trump of course will only swear in the Bible if it's upside down upside down. So like we have to fight for a lot of stuff I'm just saying this is the fights that get us towards, you know, progress. I hope I hope you have a pastor farion scripture to swear on. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. You like listen if you know I've taken it where I've been in a circumstance where I might be asked to. You know, I can, because I can affirm certainly and I because I do process serving I, you know, deliver legal documents to people. But I have to of course swear and affidavit. So I haven't yet but I think I the next time I try, or the next time I do I'm going to bring in my, my gospel of the flying spaghetti monster and see if that'll fly. Yeah. Because if anything, go take that out. I get it. I get it. All right, John Richards, what's in your plate. Well, yeah, we, we did this very good chat yesterday with somebody from the clergy project who was amazing story. And as I said at the beginning, 25 years in China speaks Mandarin fluently. It's an atheist country brought by enlarge, but they're not critical thinkers they are inducted into atheism as children they're told that this is the way to behave. So it's very weird. I have two meetings coming up later today and it's good job I managed to boot up the old computer. I've got an AUK podcast scheduled with john Lombard he is the rep from TCP that I'm referring to in, in regard to this event they're staging. I don't have to, I have to Google it. But I've also got the usual views on the news. Yes, the new name the new name for global atheist news review great name. Yeah, we're upgrading, you know, new, new backgrounds, new transparencies, new names, keeping the pace going. Good question. Is it news or entertainment. Yeah, I mean, box news has news but that's the entertaining part of the news. Yeah, yeah. Global Atheist News itself tries to be dispassionate unbiased news. And I research all the items from several different sources in order to get a consensual viewpoint. Of course views on the news is all about people's opinions and they introduce their wisdom and their wit. And that's much more like entertainment. We're actually developing some new shows, which we hope will be pure entertainment. One of them is a quiz show called know your BS, and you can take that to mean a butterfly suit we talked about them. Very cool. So, guys, you can find my stuff on let's chat on YouTube. I also got a web comic I don't need a plug back here but anyway if you're interested. Just check out YouTube. Let's chat. I'll do some sound language breakdowns I'll do some videos where I do interviews with people and of course I got this show right here with some of my favorite people in the country, happily talking to them about science, religion and the fact that there are no souls. Wait, there are souls. Larry, tell us all about the fact that there are souls. There are souls. I've got two of them. One of my left foot and one of my right foot. Well, that's that's better than what went through my mind. When I heard you say there's our souls. Anyway, you can find my content on Facebook. I'm sorry, and digital free thought calm. When you go there be sure to click on the blog button it will take you to our radio show archives, atheists songs and articles on the subject. The articles on the subject I have put into a book it's called atheism what's it all about which is available on Amazon. Thank you dread for showing it. And my YouTube channel handle is doubt or five. Remember, everybody is going to somebody else's health. The time to worry about it is when they prove that heavens and hell's and souls are real. Until then, don't sweat it. Enjoy your life. And we'll see you next Wednesday night at seven o'clock here on WZO radio. Say bye everybody. Bye everybody.