 I'm Jay Fidel. This is Coronaville. We're talking about Trump. COVID is a blessing. That's what he said. It's a blessing from God, I quote. So that makes for an interesting show. And I think I'm going to do the whole show with a fly in my head, if you don't mind. I think it's all the fashion right now. Anyway, so let's talk about the hottest news that I've seen lately. And it's not exactly on Coronaville, but it is on these times in which we live. It's the kidnapping, the kidnapping in Michigan. Tim, are you familiar with that? Can you talk about it? It just happened today. Yeah, I just was reading it before we went on. You know, the FBI have charged six individuals with conspiracy to kidnap the governor. And my initial reaction is, why are we surprised? Because Donald Trump really fan the fires for groups like that to take action. I mean, it's almost like he implicitly endorsed things like that. By saying that they're in a, you know, in a, in a lockdown, you know, state. I'm just not surprised that it's occurring, but I'm disappointed that they probably took encouragement from the words of the president of the United States to do something crazy like that. Yeah, the army, right? They're referring to the army. And it happened before in Michigan. Michigan seems to be responsive to these dog whistle suggestions that he makes. Really extraordinary. And by the way, it's not six anymore. It's 13. And one of them is on the run. But they have 13 people involved in the conspiracy. And they, as far as I understand what happened is they were going to, they were going to kidnap her. They were making explosives. They were going to attack the state, the state legislature building, state capital. And they were going to try her for treason, violating their view of the Constitution. We're talking about madness here. And we're talking about, you know, madness encouraged by the president. Stephanie, what do you think, you know about this? Yes. And that I thought, well, 13 at least, because they tied up with a mission. They wandered around thinking, well, maybe we don't really have enough people according to NPR this morning. And then they just, that's when they ran into, I guess, in the dark night on the street in the alley, a militia group. So it could be more, but I'm just, I'm terrified and pulled at the danger that she was in. And what recourse is there? And I believe this is all about masks. The mask mandate. Yes, exactly. That's what they're angry at her about. They think that her order requiring masks is a violation of their constitutional rights and they want to try her for that. And this is for treason. And then they would have a reason to shoot her. I mean, or worse. God knows. I mean, the thing about it is there'll be weapons. Cynthia, don't you think there'll be weapons? These guys, you know, love weapons. They're going to carry weapons on their assault on the state legislature. I mean, they were going to the FBI to its credit, stop them. But, you know, if they carry weapons, what are the police do? Do they also carry weapons? Of course they do. And now you have a shoot them out of the state Capitol, what everybody's been waiting for. Thank you, Dr. Trump. What do you think, Cynthia? Well, I think it started with him when he said liberate Michigan. Right. And I think it was more than just the mask mandate. I think it was the lockdown more than anything else. And the intelligence so far shows they intended to overthrow the state government, not just kidnapper and try her. They intended to take over the entire Michigan state government because they thought it was unconstitutionally. Yeah, there you go. So Winston, is this the kind of thing that could play out in other states or is it limited to Michigan? I think it's reasonable to say that there's always been this strain in America of these sorts of groups. They just haven't been banned and encouraged by the, had their flames banned and encouraged by a sitting president. That's where the real danger is. But hopefully he will take this opportunity to come out and say this is a horror. Don't expect it. Don't hold your breath. But, you know, the good news is that the FBI was functioning exactly the way that it should have. They're probably following hundreds of groups like this across the country. They have as much information as they can. Unfortunately, these folks do exist. Their solution is one of violence and chaos. And fortunately, you know, our system worked and I think it will continue to work. There's always going to be French lunatics out there, but we mustn't mistake them with the overwhelming majority of good people in this nation who have nothing to do with this. Yeah, but it's a confluence of confluence of events is going to the election day itself and and I suggest to you that this will happen elsewhere. There'll be more of this and there'll be more dog whistles from him because arguably he's he's decompensating now. Let's talk about the debate last night Tim. What did you think in terms of COVID anyway on how they did in the debate Kamala versus Pence? Well, I think she had to state very directly and she got that right off the bat that no administration, no presidency has ever failed greater than this administration on the way that COVID has been handled. But before I go in further than that, I just want to draw one parallel to what Trump said about, you know, calling out his army to go to the polls and make sure that the ballots are not being a suspect. And for me that call was exactly calling on groups like this that, you know, wanted to kidnap the governor. Those kind of groups that's that's who he implored, you know, made his request to is those kind of groups and I find that really dangerous and I hope that he sees the light of not trying to stir those folks up to make the election day a nightmare. But anyway, let me let me get back to your question and as I think Kamala Harris did an excellent job on pointing that out that there's a dismal failure with COVID and how this administration has handled it, and particularly the fact that Donald Trump knew very early on in late January, the deadly nature of COVID and he knew very well that it was more daily than the most, you know, virulent flu he knew it wasn't a flu he knew as much more deadly or and yet he chose not to say a word about it. Yeah. Well, yeah, I think she really she heard him on that. But, you know, it he presented he presented Trump's case his position. And I think the base like that even though he was full of lies. Cynthia, you know, they say that that Kamala, you know, does better did better last night with with women in the country and that's a big part of the electorate. And Pence, not so much he's not appealing to women. I don't know enough to know how this looks through the eyes of a woman but can can you speak to that. I can he acted very misogynistic in the sense of talking over women, not respecting women when they tell like the moderator, a woman tells him to stop six times one of the times she had to do it. She did tell him, you know, excuse me, thank you, Mr. President, thank you, Mr. Vice President, thank you six times she had to say that. They know when they walk in the door that when the moderator says thank you, all you get to do is finish your thought. You don't get to keep going on and on and add new thoughts. And he did that with every single question. And I stopped counting lies at 30. And we weren't even 30 minutes into the debate yet. Yeah. What about you Stephanie, how do you think the moderator did I mean you're, you're a moderator here on Think Tech, we all are. How would you have handled that. I mean she would say thank you and he would ignore her blow her off again and again and again. Could you have stopped him what would you have done to stop him. Well, I think she was trying mightily to not have to get loud. She didn't increase her volume, and she continued to be pleasant and Curtis courteous. I was a little shocked that he was quite as aggressive as he was that didn't suit his, his usual stance and the way he started out being so gracious about Kamala. So I was there were a lot of mixed things going on. And as far as the moderator, I think she did a pretty good job because he did, he did do what Cynthia said, but she called him back but still Kamala lost a couple of, you know, half minutes there. I mean that adds up to 30 seconds or so it's very unfair. So I think that Kamala. I think she's trying to be all things so you know she's a tough prosecutor, but she also was pulling this kind of like cute smirky look at him, like when he was lying. She do that, you know, like thing and I think that, you know, as far as the gender things can say, I just think for the role and everything I think she ought to drop that and not not do that kind of thing I know it's signal to the audience to like she knew he was lying and he was looking at her and he and there's a whole but but I just don't think it suited her. She needs to be more the Elizabeth Warren, you know, blasted man with Winston, how, how, what's your reaction to how Kamala did. Should she have been more aggressive less aggressive. And what would you, this is a combination question what would you as the moderator have done to stop Pence from rolling on for minutes at a time. First, I think that the winner in this debate yesterday was America. It wasn't either of the candidates I felt like we could that this is what was a normal debate should look like. I'm not sure that they got into any topics that were were there was nothing that shifted anyone's opinion. But it did prove to folks that she would be able to ascend to the presidency. That was the most important thing that she did is she showed herself as a competent, reasonable, thoughtful person. I agree with Stephanie that the looks were great for the base but that she needed to be a little bit more holding his feet to the fire and just, but she had a hard she has a hard thing to do as many people have pointed out as a black woman. She has a double standard there that she can't be seen as shrill or as you know, whatever it is and I think that's that's true. And Mike Pence did interrupt her many times has been pointed out she also interrupted him, neither one of them answered a lot of questions because that's what we expected, but I felt after this that he was positioning himself for really 2024 or beyond and that his, his performance and the fly actually normalized things to a point after last week which was such a disaster, and it showed the vision of where we can be as a people where he said, look, we come together I thought the answer about that the last question from the eighth grader was, we come together we debate passionately but the end of the day we're all Americans were in this together so I thought it was very important for him to do that, even though his beliefs and his training and his secrecy for the current president are well known, I thought it was a positive step in the right direction for bringing our nation together and setting up the stage for a transfer of power when Yeah, yeah, but you didn't mention anything about the lies. The lies of course it was it was it was filled with lies and there's some really great articles out there that deconstruct those exactly but and I don't know that I answered your other question which is how to what would what would be different about Kamala. I don't know that I would have changed anything her her looks were fine, but she. Yeah, she can be like. My other question was how would you as a host here on think tech or as a moderator in you know in that environment have stopped him from interrupting her and going on for minutes and minutes after his time was up. That was a really hard question and I think that the moderator last night did a much better job obviously than than Chris Wallace but she wasn't dealing with Donald Trump either she was dealing with a man who at least has been part of the system so I don't know what else she could have done except maybe. Mr President like I'm interrupting you right now. Yeah, Mr Vice President Mr Vice President. Continue to interrupt it, and you would get nowhere with it for as long as I control the moderator and I would say Mr Vice President I'm sorry, I am the moderator, and here, I am the president. And she could have done that and I think she did it to some degree of effect because the more she said it, the more all of us were aware like you're going over and I didn't I didn't I wasn't listening to what he was saying I was curious how many times she was saying it so he lost ground that way didn't he lost a lot of ground so I think she was effective in what she did and she also brought back this thing that says you both agreed to these ground rules so for me. It was, you know, of course he was doing what our man's planning and and going over the limits, but it seemed to be in a reasonable wish way that we're at least somewhat familiar with rather than the off the rails. You're kind, you are kind. And I do not want to see Mike Pence in elected office or on media shows. All I can say is when you when you said that he was vying for you know 2024. It's just a very good thing that I have not had lunch yet. That's just well you know I mean that's what he's doing he's realizing this one's a lost cause he's trying to position himself as the evangelical ancient Republican Party that maybe somehow rudimentarily exists somewhere but it's not that being the case I'm taking off my fly. Okay, moving to the other side. Where it is. Where is my fly. I have to stay there. Okay, I'm taking on my flies no longer fashionable. All right, Tim, let's let's shift gears to Coronavirus Okay, so he's back and we must. He's back in business he made a huge gaffe yesterday in terms of the politics by by saying he was terminating and like he has the power to terminate discussions between the two houses of Congress. That's really extraordinarily dictator. But you know where are we today is he okay is he having a relapse is he is he going for a relapse what about the debate. So he dropped out of the debate because they said it was be virtual. Is that does that work does that wash. Can you talk about it. I will first off, who knows what we know. Come on, they have hit, they have hidden all sorts of information about you know, his status of testing, they've hidden the x rays the CT scans, they have overtly covered this thing up. No contact tracing. For all we know Donald Trump has been the spreader of coven, not, you know, he's blaming everyone else. He's blaming gold star families as his source of infection he he blamed the hope picks as she likes to get hugs from the, you know, from the police and Secret Service personnel so he initially blamed her and I mean who hasn't he blamed except perhaps himself. I don't know where we're at as far as what the truth is with his is medical status. I don't think we'll ever truly find out. Could he be subject to relapse absolutely. Once they start taking them off the steroids. Who knows how this thing may kick back in. As far as him going to a debate in person. Oh, I would highly recommend against that I would in fact device Joe Biden I'd say. Thank you. You know what kind of message do you get the Senate president United States that you're above and beyond health law and the common sense rules of infection. I would say no I can't do it. You want to do a virtual debate. I'm on. Yeah now so what now he's going to do a rally instead on the 15th you know. So what about that comments on that. Again, for the same reason, you know you're just sending the wrong message as you have been for the last, you know, eight months about not wearing masks, not testing, not doing contact tracing. You know it's just one one thing after another as far as the wrong messaging for how we combat this pandemic. You know, I mean, I suppose Trump could make is making the arguments my business not your business I'm not going to tell you my personal thing. It's just like his personal finances. And he feels he can, you know, strong arm anybody stiff arm anybody about that. But does the public. How much does the public have a right to know about this. What can the public know can they know every test he took every moment he had with every doctor. How much will be entitled to know about his disease. Again, I'm talking to Cynthia sorry the nuclear football. Oh, pardon. I wanted Cynthia to answer that. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry, I didn't realize. Well, actually, as the President of the United States, he lives in a goldfish bowl, and we get to know everything about him. That's the way it is. The President in the past has done that. And he is a time honored tradition that should never ever stop, because our, our future our daily lives are, you know, the land on how healthy or unhealthy he is. I want to really enter this with a quote from the New England Journal of Medicine that has just recently come out against Donald Trump says our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs. This is unprecedented for the medical journal to come out like this. And I recommend everybody to read it, the whole thing. This is just a small, you know, clip from it. It's very enlightening and it really talks and speaks to his response to this and his response to his own case of it. Yeah. So Stephanie, it sounds like a lot of people are turning against Trump right now. Can you say why is this a trend we should be watching the next few weeks. And does it mean anything in terms of the election. You know, I think that they're slowly chipping climbing off, but they're very, very tentative, because look at him he got the virus serious enough to ride the helicopter, and he's back it's like the ending of that movie with close Glenn close where you think she's gone in the top. No, the monster is never dead in these really good sci fi movies. So I think that people are still very tentative because it also reflecting the drama of the degree of malice that was in his threats to get in line. I think we're seeing some reflection of that too. But anyway, that some of them are also, you know, going to stay with them through the way but I would have expected people to be back be off more off by now away from him. It's just going so slowly because I think he's got such control over them and is so threatening as a bully can be. Well maybe maybe we're just at the beginning of something and people don't want to spend time with him in the White House. They don't want to catch it. And the White House is all were working from home now. That's what I read. So what you know what we have is a government that's not quite functional Winston, you know, how is this working. We have a government that works here. Can they make decisions. It was bad enough when Trump was, you know, in the Oval Office making all the decisions. Now he's the only one in the building making all the decisions. How can this government function. I read reading something about artists tweets considered to be authoritative are they orders in fact when he orders bill bar that Joe Biden should be arrested. Let me just let me just interrupt to say, you know, remember what he said, he said he liked this, this special treatment he got. He thought it was really miraculous of blessing from God. And he was going to he was going to save the country. He was going to make it available to everybody free. And now there's there's a fantastic statement. Do you think that will ever happen. Well, considering there's story out earlier today that says, if all Americans got the same level of treatment that Donald Trump got people magazine that says it would cost the average American more than $100,000. I'm going to say no, what we need to focus on is common sense things, wearing a mask, social distancing, vaccine development, washing your hands, the basics, you know, even I thought it was a little bit ironic that the surgeon general out here got ticketed by the police for not wearing his mask. I think it was a cool part, but that aside, okay, don't make don't put me on that jury. Well, you know, it was an anomaly, I get it he won he was and, but I think that's what Donald Trump is doing here. When Americans are reading that he's putting his secret service agents at risk for joy rights around the hospital that he's declaring himself cured that he is the only one that's going to save us. That's just ridiculous things. They're looking around and saying, you know, he just he might have been the super spreader disease that then sent this to a thousands of people across the country with the Amy Barrett rose garden event so I think people are waking up a little bit more and saying you know what, this is not the chaos confusion insanity that we need anymore we need sane adults that are not corrupting. I hope you're so I hope you're you're you're right about that. So Tim you know we touched on this yesterday and it's, it's this whole thing about about what what the world thinks of this and, and whether the world would you know take advantage of our government not doing anything. You know my my view, as you know from the beginning of Trump is that he hasn't done anything. He's he's done all negative things all 180 off all wrong way car again. And if you ask me whether the country would be better if he had never been in the White House for one moment and done anything I would say absolutely. We would have been better off. Right now, you know, in a sense he's desperate. He's desperate to show his base a few things or two to be back in control. At the same time, fact is he's not doing anything fact is that we are an opportunity for Russia and China. Are we safe. That's my question. But I think measurable damage has been done to our reputation worldwide. I think Russia feels like it has a free play in our politics, either in this election or moving forward. I think our relationship with China has been strained. And I think our relationships with Europe has been horribly strained with NATO and, you know, just point out of all the Paris environmental agreements and the agreement with Iran. We haven't been a nation of our word and your credibility once your credibility has been damaged it takes a long time to rebuild that back up with your allies and your friends. And it's good if Joe Biden becomes the next president it'll take him minimally one year to send out an army of diplomats across the world to say, we're really sorry for the last four years and we'd like to show you something different on how a real administration acts in the world stage with its allies and partners. You know, I sent you guys just for reference a copy of the Gellman article out of the Atlantic two or three weeks ago and it continues to frighten me petrify me. And there's a long way to go from here to a new president in office, perhaps longer than we can imagine. But I want to get a snapshot from all of you want to go around the table here and consider all the things we've been talking about, you know. What happened in Michigan, the debate how it came off and how it might have affected people. His covert and his remarks about blessings from God, and his arrogance is total arrogance in, in reporting on that, and failing to take any steps even now to limit it, you know, the contagion. Incredible. But what I really want to know is, given all the things in the Atlantic, you know, which could screw up the election big time. Host office is only the beginning. How do you feel right now about the election, are we on the right track. Can you feel a level of confidence that you think the polls are going to be the ones that, you know, that dictate who the next president is, Stephanie why don't you start tech tech half a minute. I'm glad that you brought up the international situation, the threat, because that's one of the things that we're not paying attention to, and these are unguarded moments because again, all this shiny object stuff. Very serious things in addition to shiny objects, but even more serious than that is our vulnerability. Now as far as I'm concerned, man, we could be hit any minute. The foxes are outside the hand house, slathering over this opportunity. I mean, we could be taken down so bad, worse than 911 worse than anything. So I don't stop thinking about that for a minute, and get a little bit upset, you know, they're going out there checking on Redhill. For all of that. All the storage of the of gas or whatever it is gasoline or anyhow energy to run the seventh fleet, right. Well, they're saying that I said why is anybody even talking about they're going into check the red hill storage containers for to protect us from. People could come in here and bomb that sucker and the whole island would. And don't forget, you know, cyber terrorism. Okay, Cynthia, what are your thoughts here, you know, the three weeks out. How are you feeling given all of these various factors that we, we, we four, five, whatever we have one, two, three, four, five have been talking about. What's what's what's on your mind. Yeah, you know, I've been working on trying to put together some of our past Trump weeks, and compile them together. And we've been talking about this stuff on Trump week now for like two years. Don't forget coronavirus to the current bill. Yeah. And so, sorry. Yeah, but I mean it comes over to this and it all comes together in the same way because Trump is at the, you know, he's the one that's at the crux of all of this. So, we're not going to be able to get out of this and even if Joe Biden wins by a landslide is sat on January and 20 versus it or 20 second 20. Okay. I believe that if Trump knows he's going to be leaving he's going to do everything he can to sabotage Joe Biden's term, which means he's going to hand us over to the highest bidder that's going to attack us and make Joe look bad. Our fear should end and I mean and our trouble will end on January 20, regardless of losing office. Thank you Cynthia. Okay Winston what about you are you feeling don't tell me you're optimistic. No I'm feeling a little optimistic jade and recent is I would remember I did last week to I said, I don't know why but I'm feeling optimistic this week. I think that maybe it was maybe it was just gas. It could have been, but I, I, I'm feeling like Americans, even though I said nothing would move the needle with them. And his supporters, I think that those ones that that whatever the mythical five 678% it's bigger than that. It's normal people who felt they believe the myth and then suddenly they watch this performance a week ago and they thought, this is horrendous. I can't do it anymore. I can't put up the pretense of saying he's great for America is bringing back whatever they just have given up and you saw these massive swings in people who are seniors in across the board, even when Rasmussen comes out with their This is all hope that America is regaining its sanity and its sense of itself the debates last night that we're saying were a sense of hope for the future, arresting these folks for this plot for Governor Whitmire also shows that this very dangerous element has been rogue that is intent on just destroying the system and not just a person. And so I think all of this any, any normal person can look at this and say, you know what I might want change but it doesn't come about like this, and this candidate has led us down a path of this presence let us down such a wrong path that we need to change and so I think that the polls that people are voting, it's there's going to be some chaos some confusion certainly but we're going to come out of it and, as Stephanie said, our work is not over on the 20th. January, I think I'm speaking. I follow this opportunity to wrap all this, you know, my time, very, you're finished opportunity to wrap all this together. Tell us how you feel all these factors you know and it's the number of variables in this universe that we talk about. It's like if you start accounting them that would be dozens and dozens of things. So can you try to put it all together. I want to fly back on my head now. Yes, I'm optimistic for two reasons one is, I think the vote, not only in the swing states but the non swing states even possibly Florida may may go into obi Biden's his column. I'm really optimistic about that I'm also optimistic about what the polls look like against a lot of these Senate races, and I'm optimistic that maybe the Democrats do take the Senate. I'm really concerned that Donald Trump in his magical ways can manipulate those swing state GOP states that somehow he gets them to just ignore the popular vote in that state and somehow rig it for the Electoral College and manipulate it in such a way that he gets very close to victory, or unfortunately, takes victory. Yeah. Lots of variables. It's, it's a it's a world to discuss not only during the Trump week show in the Coronaville show but, as you know, all week long. So let's keep on exchanging ideas and articles and references and, and you know talking about it in our respective shows. Thank you so much. We're all done now. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.