 May 40 here doing a decoding of bronze age pervert bronze age pervert Benerates ancient Greece where man boy love was the thing all right not not marriage Right bronze age pervert does not much time for marriage doesn't understand why men would want to waste their time around women He generally doesn't find women objects of erotic attraction, but young man. That's where it's at So in ancient Greece the era that bronze age pervert Idealizes and venerates and worships right the highest form of love in ancient Greece was between men and boys so Jerry Sandusky seems like Perhaps an archetype of bronze age pervert right Jerry Sandusky great defensive coordinator Very hands-on wanting to work with boys very hands-on cornholing boys in the shower and that kind of men boy love it seems to be the The energy that drives bronze age pervert just idealizes You know men boy love that's that's really where it's at stay away from icky women The other thing that seems to characterize him as it is dropped his real-life identity completely submerged himself Into trying to make himself an online God and be worshipped online He's dropped his real-life identity just merged himself into this online Persona and like Leo Strauss many Leo Strauss acolytes Bronze age pervert believes that he has a secret decoder ring for understanding the ancient thinkers such as Plato Socrates and Aristotle so he did his PhD thesis on the problem of tyranny and philosophy in the thought of Plato and Nietzsche and His dissertation advisor Stephen Smith said it was original perspective. It was original perspective purporting that he had the secret decoder ring for what Socrates really meant so The bronze age pervert holds that he knows what Plato really meant that Plato Purposefully made Socrates anti-tyranny argument so weak that he must have intended that his audience side with the defense of tyranny So bronze age pervert thinks that Caligula is a heroic figure that we should look to tyrants like Caligula It's kind of the way forward. So like Menchus Mordberg and His veneration of monarchy. So Menchus Mordberg has has no time for democracy But messy relationships like that. He just wants a kin king to rule over us, right? It's a fantasy delusional world by that unsurprisingly comes from people who spend a great deal of time online and very interested in creating their own online Persona more interested in creating online persona than real-world corrections. So The bloke behind bronze age pervert essentially gone silent in the real world since 2018 so he can devote himself to Promoting a homo erotic man boy You know love as the highest ideal form of human interaction and promoting the rule of tyrants and Substituting for democratic rule the rule of military figures So we discussed the bronze age pervert on the book club that we did on my show once a week for about two years with Kevin Michael Grace this is from my show June at 22 2018 3 p.m. Pacific time and the book this week It's a hard one to be indifferent about if you pick this book up I reckon you'll either love it or hate it this book called the bronze age mindset and Kevin Michael Grace chose a Kevin. Why did you choose this book? I thought it would be fun I know very little about bronze age pervert. I suspect that very few people do and this is deliberate on his part He calls his book a manifesto Well, first of all, let me read something from a Vox article and we all know about Vox. So, you know come granosalis Nobody knows who bronze age pervert is but among a subset of internet denizens He's something of a demigod a Jordan Peterson in miniature He was well known enough for the neo-reactionary and proto alt-right thinker Curtis Yarvin better known by a pseudonym Mencey as mold bug to name check And question in the in the chat does 40 have an inspiring vision of the future Is it just get married have kids and die? Yeah I have an inspiring vision of the future and that is today your actions are in harmony Right that you do the things that you want to do you avoid doing the things that you don't want to do But the different parts of your life work together You play an important role in the lives of people around you that you are loved by people around you and you love them and You live a life that's in harmony with your values So you don't state certain values and then live a life completely contradictory But instead your life your actions your beliefs the various sectors of your life kind of all work together So that you can have the best possible relations with the people who are in your life That's that's my heroic vision of the future Right where you you do what you say you say what you do you mean what you say you say what you mean as Appropriate to the context in the situation and you're not doing things You know in private you'd be ashamed of being known publicly that What you do in church and what you do in synagogue or what you do at the bar What you do at a stadium what you do with your friends with your acquaintances with your work colleagues with people in Various communities that you're a part of but it all basically works together so I have a vision of a harmonious life and That that vision contains five to 15 hours a week volunteering helping out other people So every day you should be doing things that you can feel good about That are not just the selfish fulfillment of your own basic needs That's my vision come in a recent interview with an Atlantic journalist telling Rosie Gray The Bronze Age pervert was his contact inside the White House Well, this seems to have been an attempt to troll Gray It speaks to Bronze Age perverts relative notoriety within this type of time Now this writer does not know what notoriety means notoriety is a bad thing not a good thing and furthermore it is clear from reading this book that Kevin Luke says that the life I describe is not really heroic well To the people who are positively affected by what I'm doing for the people for whom I play a role in helping them break out of Deadly addictions and compulsions for some of them. It's absolutely heroic for people who need my help and I provide it It's heroic for the people who benefit from when I extend myself and commit myself to causes and Volunteer opportunities and and commitments, you know greater and above myself Yeah, it's it's heroic that other people get to benefit sometimes, you know Recently large number of people 100 200 300 people get to benefit when I put their welfare ahead of my own for a few hours a week So if you need people and people are there to help you out most people find that Verging on the heroic when people look forward to seeing you when you lift people up consistently when you are Overwhelmingly a source of joy rather than a sense source of aggravation and depression in people's life And you're a source of joy because you have joy Yeah, people tend to find that really good if not verging on the heroic if you can bring that day in day out If you can be someone who's at ease with yourself And therefore at ease with other people at ease with reality So that people find themselves relaxing when they're around you and people find themselves letting their head down where people feel Like they can be open and honest around you where they don't have to pretend and they don't have to put on a persona where they don't have to claim to be one thing when they're really something else and That that release of unnecessary tension and aggravation just unleashes you know joy and Souls coming out of hiding. Yeah, any people find that heroic rather than creating a fake online persona claiming that you have the secret Decoder ring to the ancients That the highest form of love is between men and boys that we really need more tyrants like Caligula ruling over us Yeah, I would say that I prefer my presentation of the heroic to the veneration of homoerotic love between men and boys is being greater than The love in a nuclear family I would say that the veneration of tyrants like Caligula is an inferior version an inferior vision to What I share on this channel He is not like Jordan Peterson because Jordan Peterson is an Apollonian and Bronze Age pervert is clearly a Dionysian And what are the main differences between Apollonian and Dionysian? Well to put it bluntly Apollonian stands for order and Dionysian stands for disorder Yeah, I mean it's much more complicated than that But one might say that an Apollonian is devoted to reason whereas a Dionysian is devoted to Passion the most famous Dionysian of our age is Jim Morrison of the doors He's been celebrated for that by many people. There's a cult But 40 any inspiring vision for the future of humanity? Well, it helps if you pay your bills If you have good relations with other people you make Consistent solid You know pro-social decisions to free up time in your life to then devote to poetry to music to Thinking about society politics philosophy art all right, so if you are creating space for that in your life because of the Positive choices that you may because of the self-discipline that you show because you have set aside Savings because you choose to create time for yourself to explore ideas to join communities to build your relationships with other people who are similarly You know inspired or similarly want to guide humanity in a in a better direction All right, then you can build on the positive choices But if your personal life is a mess if you're getting deeper and deeper into debt if you rely upon welfare If you're a sucker on you suck on the teeth of your family or of your community or of your nation Right. I am highly skeptical of you know any contributions You're gonna make towards the future of humanity possible But first as Jordan Peterson says clean your room get your own life clean organized Need a life that's in harmony not at war and Out of that out of the good connections that you build and a life that is interwoven with the lives of other people You're far more likely to produce a vision for the future that is useful and Accords with reality rather than a delusional homo erotic worship me and suck me off vision That's venerate tyrants present presented by Bronze Age pervert know that the Jerry Sandusky of the alt-right around him because of that You know reading this book I was struck by something that the great critic Lester Bangs once said to Cameron Crow that he talked he asked him about what typewriter he used they were talking about writing and Lester Bangs says somebody the effect that he liked to take meth and he just you know like type 25 pages you know just to write you know and It struck me that this book is not so much about manifesto and more of a prose poem or a fever dream if you will yeah, I Mean there's so many misspellings in the book that I assume that there's a point to them Well, I got the impression that this fellow is not a native English speaker I also got the impression that he comes from the former Soviet Empire either from Russia itself or from one of the countries of the Warsaw Pact. I mean the Slavic speakers have a big problem with the article They will frequently not use the word the where it should be used. Yeah, this is this is smart here from Kevin deducing that Bronze Age pervert came from Eastern Europe he came from Romania moved to the United States at age 10 so You can often tell a great deal about a guru a thought leader a livestream But by the quality of the people he attracts and Bronze Age pervert attracts this rabid audience You know that is highly reactive to the slightest criticism of their hero so One of the signs that you're dealing with someone who's bad for you is if they cultivate this Unnecessarily strong in group out group identity where the in group is those who listen to them and worship then and follow them And to the extent that I have a following. I would not want to have a rabid following All right, I would not want people wasting their energy defending me. I sometimes have good points to make I often have daft points to make I Frequently have no points to make And so too with you know anyone else who does what what I do like at times You're gonna have a good point in a certain situation You might have something useful relevant even cutting and incisive plenty of the time You'll be absolutely daft and wrong and much of the time you'll just be mediocre But there's this rabid in-group versus out-group mentality fostered by Bronze Age pervert That highly reacts against the slightest criticism of their hero. I Think that's unhealthy along with this delusional idea that he's got the personal decoder ring to the ancients like Plato Socrates and Aristotle and What the author of the Prince Nicolao Machiavelli think that's absurd and they will frequently insert those will where they should not be used I mean to a certain extent his Language his written language is highly stylized But again, there are a great number of gross grammatical errors, which I suppose could be deliberate But that would indicate a really high level of accomplishment to pull that sort of thing off over a 138 page book and I will point out that the book is only 138 pages well at least in my e-book edition But it is actually longer than that because there are very few paragraphs. Yeah How did you hear about Bronze Age pervert in the first place to your member? I don't he was one of those people who seemed to rise up in 2016 or at the same time Ricky Vaughan did and You know that there was a cult that arose around him. That's really all I know about him That's a bad sign All right, someone who comes online stays anonymous the most himself to building an online persona Inviting worship you know very similar to Nick Fuentes and Richard Spencer Someone who submerges their real self in an online persona not a good sign and what did you think of the book? well, I think that It rather reminds me of the French novelist Louis Ferdinand Selene who whom he name checks in the text Although it's far more anarchic than Selene There is a sort of a fury to it to the narrative and as well as opposed and what's the basis of the fury the basis of the fury is that this world has not Accorded the author of Bronze Age mindset the respect and adulation and status that he feels like he deserves He feels like he is a superior man, but in real life. He cannot be a superior man in real life He's an oddball. He is an eccentric who lacks normal genuine human connections And so out of this fury that he hasn't been accorded the proper veneration status respect Prestige that he feels he is rightly owed comes the furious output to Selene a Lot of it seems crazy or deliberately crazy like he's attempting to troll us for instance There's a section of the book where he's talking about Geographers lying to us for instance and Lucroff says Richard Spencer was always open about his name and views was he open about how he welcomed people hailing him with No, hey Hale Spencer or see Kyle, right? I don't think he was quite open about how much he venerated The Nazi adulation that he received in private. He tried to keep that private. He tried to present a reasonable Figure to the public to the mainstream media in private. He lapped up as much Nazi adulation as he could whip up Don't think he wanted to make public how he was sleeping with the girlfriends of his followers Don't think he wanted to make public his extensive, you know drug and alcohol abuse So I think there was a great deal of Richard Spencer's life that he tried to keep on the down low Since that the earth is actually much smaller than we think it is and I don't mean smaller in a metaphorical sense I mean in a literal sense Also that many cities in the world are actually the same now this could be argued metaphorically, but the book and The chat says Richard Spencer admires Napoleon more than Hitler at least that's what he says publicly in his private life He got you know, he would take and whip up and seek out every bit of hit Hitler adulation as he could possibly receive He deliberately took the alt-right, which was formerly known as a bunch of merry pranksters and as closely as he could intertwined it with the Nazi outlook And privately he would you know whip up storms of people seek hiling him That's what got him off argues as if it were literal Do you think that Bronze Age furthered as Nancy's notebook? Oh, I have no idea. I mean I I've I've read moldbook and I stopped reading him for this reason. I thought I'm a pretty clever fellow But I have no idea what this guy's on about Yeah When I do figure out what I mentioned small bug is on about I realize he doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does So it mentions more by Curtis Yavin, right makes all sorts of grand pronouncements about topics He doesn't know very much about I'm no scholar of World War two But when he starts talking about World War two, you know, I realize that he knows even less than I do I realize that he knows even less than I do in all sorts of areas and yet he feels completely confident making all sorts of grand sweeping pronouncements so my experience of Curtis Yavin aka mentioned small bug is either I don't have a clue what he's talking about. It's just that it's so Abstruse and so poorly written or when I do know what he's talking about it doesn't stand up to critical scrutiny Dennis Dale welcome to the show. Do you have any thoughts on the bronze age mindset? Yeah, you know, it was fun in parts You know, I Parts not, you know, some of those arguments arguments are brilliant and sometimes it's just silly that part about history Kevin and the geography thing Yeah, you know, it's weird It just strikes me is that we have to learn how to read all over again because people now will give in and out of trolling and stuff Which is what I think this guy does here or you might just lead you into it at some point You're following along with him and all of a sudden say some crazy thing like, you know, who knows, right? If Rio DeGiro is not actually New York or some crazy stuff like this But it's a lot of fun and his critique of you know, so-called scientism. It's the usual stuff, but it's very powerful I wanted to say something about you mentioned history He falls into the trap that the Nietzsche did of course You could look at this book as simply a gloss on Nietzsche if you wanted to this idea that there's no such thing as truth Well Roger Scruton pointed out that then this would obviously have to be true of the person who made the claim and if any person makes such a claim One should stop paying attention He goes on a great length about how what we know for instance about the ancient world Could have been cobbled together by later scribes For instance Christian scribes, but then he goes on to quote at great length about the ancient world, right? And there's also it. I don't know that this confusion about Ancient religion about for instance Greek mythology He weaves in and out of this and this may be deliberate one doesn't really know whether he Believes that these gods are real or not Well, yeah, I'm not even certain of the level of his religious. He has religious sentiment I don't feel like he has religious belief. He keeps pointing out the holes in a lot like Jordan Peterson, I mean Jordan Peterson's an atheist who devotes himself to promoting Christianity But he himself is absolutely bored silly participating in Christianity and so Bronze Age pervert Likes to wrap himself in the mantle of religion when when it's convenient But I suspect he would be absolutely bored to death actually trying to live Christianity Logic reason, you know gaps that we all been talking about, you know We were talking about with the last book and But he doesn't really provide anything as well There's the great gods over there and there's that tradition over there traditions He might as well trash like the Christian tradition in another context, you know, so he doesn't understand the Christian tradition at all He talks about going to churches and being bored now he makes a great deal in the book about sacrifice and he Evidently does not know because it would appear he has no knowledge of the Catholic or orthodox tradition that Orthodox Christianity is based on a sacrifice the sacrifice of the mass which Christians orthodox Christians believe to be real Yeah, then did you have other thoughts because you were just getting started there when I interrupted No, you were interrupted by so do you have further thoughts down? Well, no, I mean here's another thing He talks about that the hatred of beauty which has existed through all time and space apparently Remember that his beauty is boys, right? The greatest form of beauty for him is boys young men, right and the greatest form of love as in ancient Egypt and as in what Jerry Sandusky had is the the love and the arrows between grown men and boys He doesn't seem to know about the Middle Ages then because the Middle Ages the beauty was venerated You have a situation where say the Vikings my ancestors The pirates that he so admires were invited to take over Normandy Which they did in a very short order were spending vast sums of money to build the most beautiful buildings the world has ever seen Yeah, this distinction he makes is not real between the pirate and the farmers. He has nothing but disdain for the mass Where does he think this elite emerges from you know Well one started to wrap up one other thing in that respect now He likes the Greeks a lot the ancient Greeks and he talks about wine and their use of wine But wine is agricultural Non-agricultural people have very primitive forms of alcohol. Wine is not a primitive form of alcohol Right I want to get all of your thoughts on the box. So we're not gonna interrupt you go ahead Dennis Oh, no, I was just listening Kevin Kevin's got a lot better stuff than me. We'll go on a lot of scattered notes You guys talk about the fact that Sailor I found this old post from sailor somebody found out that Steve Banner was reading mold bug and mold bug sort of Rick rolled them he directed them to Bronze Age pervert Yeah, and that might have been where that that room was started, but I also heard it might be Jack Donovan Is that the guy's name? Yeah, that's his name gay masculine this dude Yeah, Jack Donovan leading homosexual in the old right But Bronze Age pervert doesn't he is this guy gay? I don't even know. I mean everything about this is very gay in that theme, but he hates Homosexuality apparently well modern gayness, right? I think he makes that quite clear Just a feminine gayness and he has a very bizarre and I think just totally wrong theory about Gay this perfusion of gay behavior now is a kind of reaction to our matriarchy to this The owned space he calls it of matriarchy and all these guys are guys that would be out conquering, but there You know a question why there's so many gay men in the distant, right? Why don't you get to play dress up? To it doesn't matter that you don't have a nuclear family All right, if you have a wife and you have kids You're gonna be far less likely to participate in distant politics But if you don't have a wife and a kid your kids you're gonna be much more looking for excitement So I get my excitement in a large part doing live streams like this I also you know delve into distant politics I have a much greater need for excitement than a guy who's married with a wife and kids All right, if you married with a wife and kids, you're not out there looking for excitement You get pretty much the all the excitement you need from your family And instead adopting this homosexual. I don't buy that I think a lot of these guys are adopting homosexuality because they're just quitting because they can't keep up I mean they're just confused in this matriarchy, but it's not like these are the conquering spirits That's what I don't see in a lot of these guys But anyway, I just I can't follow where he's you know stands on anything, you know, it's a lot of fun to read him But like I said, where does he think this elite is going to emerge from? He has such contempt for common people And again, I don't know whether to take him seriously You don't know when he's trolling or not. Well, you know, this goes back to the ubermensch of Nietzsche again Well, like you said, it's all a glass on Nietzsche. It's Nietzsche is a little bit Camille Paglia And there's one more that I was thinking of earlier. Well, he game-checks Schopenhauer several times You mentioned Jack Donovan. He does not bronzage pervert does not share the rather gross and insane misogyny of Donovan He does have very strong hatred of matriarchy, which he sees at the Central to the modern bug man way of living and I think he's absolutely right about that We got a super chat from Brindlefly. He says would Kevin Michael Grace prefer to live in the stone Bronze or iron age, which is the best age for being a pervert. What brand of cigarettes is best? The cigarette question is easy to answer for me My preferred brand is a jit and but you can't get them anymore or it's very difficult to get them I I wouldn't want to live in any of those ages and it's not a question that I could possibly entertain. I Mean leaving aside the fact that you know when people even bronze age pervert they talk about Prehistorical ages. What do we know about them? I mean, he makes a lot of the the ignorance the learned ignorance of scientists But again, you know falling into the same trap, right our knowledge of prehistory is obviously Minimal well, and he tries to argue at some point that it's totally untrustworthy because people can have excised entire centuries Right and disinserted well, we knew that you know, that's this what there must be a name for this fallacy But we see it introduced this uncertainty fallacy where people would introduce it as if it's not, you know It doesn't affect their side equally of whatever it is they're saying but My version of history is right every other every everyone else's version of history is is wrong I wanted to mention one of them. Okay, so I was so inspired by talking about bronze age pervert I started streaming at about 6 50 this morning Let me pass forward to more from this show that I did with Kevin Michael Grace Dennis Dale Casey on June 22nd My sexual freedoms is that now all these awesome things to do, you know to go do with other guys as sure They're more expressive unless we decide we're gonna call ourselves what we are white people And you know in an expressive louder and all that's great. I love them I'm kind of white are banging on drums in the city center and you know dancing and singing and it seems It seems quite lively to me and it also seems authentic like authentically theirs or ours whereas, you know, I don't know that I could just show up at a like one of do vids interfaith like a Hindu temple like I'm always and Lucros says, are there any good parts of bronze age pervert? Yes. He is he's brilliant. He is learned he is steeped in the ancient Greeks who had some thought-provoking philosophy and There there are times when he has you know some pretty sharp Provocations all right things that make you think a second time kind of you know stop you in your tracks It's gonna feel like an outsider. So what we have to do is to find it within ourselves and that's what I'm assuming bronze-age bronze-age pervert is a white guy Can we assume that do yes? Yeah, so if so like I'm you know the Greeks did this right? That's what the mystery school came out of there and I don't know I'm just just a guy hoping that a new messiah shows up twice Don't don't fall for this business like you're a white guy. That's you're some bland thing, you know Yeah, I mean the southern people like Luke's talking about a more expressive louder and all that's great. I love them I'm kind of I Kind of thrive in that environment myself, but our people so I was reading or listening to a New York Times article on self-help guru the author of the subtle art of not giving an F and He lived for many years in Latin America because he came from Relatively repressed according to him, you know Anglo-Saxon upbringing and so he really enjoys how emotionally expressive Latin Americans are and as someone who came from an English accent upbringing myself and Who treasures my you know, Anglo-Saxon family and that civilization? Yeah, I've enjoyed Jewish culture, which is much more emotionally expressive. So I understand my people who come from more emotionally repressed Upringing can enjoy dipping into experimenting with traveling around a more emotionally expressive upbringing Not that there aren't many wonderful things about the northern European civilization people are quieter modest reserved And it's in and fuck those goddamn southerners. We're not gonna fucking copy those assholes fuck them I'm tired of hearing in the shit We need to preserve our way and there's a way that is suited for you Manic and me because it's in our goddamn jeans And it's been evolved. Yes, it's evolved over centuries in us We're suited toward a way of life that is gentler kinder than this fucking hell hole They're visiting upon us and these other people are gonna beat us because they're stronger. They're more cohesive They're louder. They're brash or they're more expressive unless we decide we're gonna call ourselves what we are white people And you know in a sort of war with these others Yeah, I don't think that that mindset that we're white people at war with non white people is a useful mindset To the extent that people identify anything like what Dennis is talking about people identify as English They identify as French they identify as German or Norwegian or Swiss or Canadian or Australian or American Right very few people in the United States, North North America Australia Europe identify primarily as white and feel at war with the non whites around them That's not going to be a an adaptive strategy for most people, right? Most people get their primary sense of meaning from their community from their family from their religion So people identify as Protestant as Presbyterian as Methodist as Seventh-day Adventist as Anglican or or Roman Catholic or Jewish or They identify with their family and their extended family or their profession, right? Not many white people feel like they are at war with non whites and Life in first world countries, right? It's not really suited for a white person to go out there with an attitude of you know, we're at war with with non whites It's not usually an adaptive strategy and defend these values of modesty and you know I'd like to live in a Jane Austen world. I like that world. I'd like 1950s America I like the stiff upper lip I grew up in Australia where you did not men did not cry where you did not spill over with emotion But what you had is your mates you're very strong ties with your mates in Australia because everyone was white and everyone basically was a northern European heritage Dominantly and so you had a cohesive Community and meets it was just very strong And so someone was making an absurd comment in the chat that I'm something against friendship or closeness between men that the very opposite What I love about traditional ways of life is that it makes forming close bonds