 when faced with the inevitable, get relative. Stay resilient. Don't be defeated as quickly. Don't quit. Welcome, everybody, to the Mindset Mentor podcast. I'm your host, Rob Dyle. And I'm excited to be joined with Mr. Matthew McConaughey here. And I've got to tell you a story real quick before we dive in. I think you'd appreciate. So when I was about 10 years old, my mom was always working. She worked three jobs because my father was, you know, they got separated. My sister was about six years older than me. She was in her like troubled years, I guess you could say, into partying, into drugs and all of that stuff. And when they would leave, I wanted to get in and, you know, see what it's like to be older. So my mom and my sister would leave. My sister had this big, huge stuffed bunny. And behind the stuffed bunny was two things. Number one was doggy style by Snoop Dogg. And I used to listen to that when I was like nine or 10 years old. Number two was dazed and confused. And I think dazed and confused is part of the reason, not the whole reason, surfing helped, but part of the reason why I got into partying and drugs as much, because I was like, this looks like so much fun. Like this seems like a great life. Like I want to see what this is all about. And so I want to tell you first off, I appreciate that because I was, well, it's good now. It was, it was kind of crazy for a little while. It was great. Yeah, it was, it was real good. So for those of you guys that don't know, Matthew just had a book come out that's incredible and I'm, I won't even blow smoke. I'll just tell you, it's one of my favorite books ever. My girlfriend and I got it. The audio book is incredible. That's what people have to listen to because it's your voice and you telling the stories. And we listened to it on our drive back. We spent a month in Sedona. We were on our way back and we listened to it. And by the end I was like, fuck, I wish this was longer. Like I want it to keep going. Like I want, I want green lights part two, because all of the other stories that weren't put in in 35 years. And so, uh, and so for, for people to know, it's, it's literally, you started journaling, which I love journaling and tell people they should journal all the time at 15 years old. And so it's 35 years of you going back and looking through your 35 years of journaling and just kind of pulling out life stories and wins and losses and how it culminated to get you into the position that you're in right now. And I can't recommend it enough. I thought it was incredible. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And, you know, the very first question, the thing that I love is in the beginning in the entry, you say, well, you know, I've been through heartbreaks, I've broken my hearts and you go through all of these different things you've done. And then the very first thing you say is, so the question I, the first question you probably have is what is a green light, which is the title of the book. And that's not my first question. The first question that I had is, can you dive deeper into the story of you doing peyote in Mexico in a cage with a mountain lion? Cause that's what I, that's what I really was hoping that you dive into when you missed it in the book. You mentioned it and he never came back around to it. I just mentioned it. Yeah. So, um, I'm in, um, Rael de Catorce in Mexico and, um, I had some time off and I had met the shaman and I'd never done peyote before, but I read enough on it and, uh, talked enough people who had and understood that it's not something to flippantly do. It's not something you do on Saturday night and head out on the town. No, no, it's, uh, you know, it's more of a spiritual adventure. And I've met the shaman and we talked, we talked about it and I've gotten to know him a little bit. And I started talking to him about, about that. Hey, what's a safe way, you know, a spiritual way to do peyote? He goes, I'll meet you here at 430 in the morning, tomorrow morning. And I show up. It's dark and not hardly saying a word. He, he says, bring your hiking shoes. We start hiking. Um, and just as, uh, the sun starts coming up, he stops and we walked about a mile up this hill and he, you know, delivers a little small bite, what this pale, small bite, small bite. And we just keep walking. Doesn't say a word. About another mile up. Now we're starting to break a sweat. Sun's up. Another one. Another mile up. Another one. By the time we reached the top, the peak, we'd gotten to the top of this beautiful mountain, the highest mountain that was around there and just quietly sat there and listened to, uh, everything that's going on. I remember there being, this was, this is real. This was not a fictitious memory. There was, on the top of this mountain, there were all these like sunflowers and there were thousands of bees and the hum of the bees was a baseline because obviously with, with peyote, your senses, um, get, get tuned in, more so than they are under normal circumstances. Um, and we sat up there for about, uh, two hours. Didn't really say much of a word at all. Just sat there, thought, meditated, prayed on my own. And then we walked slowly back down and we got down. And this is probably six, seven hours later after we'd left that morning and he, and I saw this, this, uh, this cage. Let's say cage. I mean, it was more like a habitat. It was, it was huge. It was probably 10 feet tall, 20 feet by 30 feet. And inside that was this mountain line. Um, and I kind of, you know, was, was on the frequency of mother nature. And I nestled up next to the cage and started sort of getting on the frequency of this, so said mountain line. And, uh, this is his mountain line's pacing turned into, when he was a little bit disturbed at first, turned in, he slowly moved towards me as animals were doing, they get more comfortable and he came up to the gate. And, uh, instead of being aggressive, he sort of licked my hand at the gate through the fencing. So I slowly moved to the entrance, opened it up, slowly slid in. He began to pace again, but I moved very, very slowly. His pacing was not agitated as far as I could tell. I moved to the opposite side of the, uh, the habitat and slowly sat down. And his pacing as animals do slowly moved a little bit closer to me, but was not agitated. And about an hour and a half after I'd sat down, he made his way up to me about three feet away and cut to two hours later, that mountain line's head was in my lap and he was purring. Now, what's the asterisk, what's the, uh, you know, the, the, the, do not try this at home. Here's the do not try this at home part. The, the, it was a, it was a mountain line and that's a wild animal, absolutely. But it was, it was fed. So meaning I've learned that like in the African trips, when I'm cross rivers with, with crocodiles and such and you don't want to do that in the dry season, when the animals are hungry and desperate in the wet season, when they're more well fed by the, by the food chain, you have better chances. So that's the, uh, the longer detailed version of that story. I love it. And I do want to talk to you about Africa because it sounds, you had some, some stories from there that were incredible in the book. But one of the things that you say in the very beginning that I really love is you say, I have proof that the world is conspiring to make me happy. And I always preach to people that there's two ways to look at life. Number one is that you can look at it as if life is happening to me and you're just throwing a bunch of circumstances and you have to wake up and try to move around them every single day. Number two is you can look at it as if this is happening for me, whether it's good or bad, it's happening for my own natural progression in life. So, so could you dive a little bit more into how you view life good or bad and as it's conspiring to actually make you happy? Yeah. Well, you just said it. I mean, it's more than, it's more, it's not foolish optimism. It's not, hey, the glass is full. Hey, lemonade out of lemons. It's not that. Right. I'm not, I'm not really for that hallmark art stuff. It's actually more survival. And you know, I write very early on, one of the tools that, that has come to me is when faced with the inevitable get relative, there seems to be the art of how do we see things for us? Well, as soon as something's inevitable, even if it's a crisis, what's more constructive to let it cripple you or to go, okay, I can't do anything about this and I don't like it. So how do I make this for me? How do I think Easter? I'm going to use this momentum. You know, sometimes you can get by that by out enduring it, you know, people right now in COVID times, some people will get ahead through in this time because they kept their damn head above water. These five, they didn't thrive. But a lot of times you get through it by pivoting and saying, you know what, I'm going to look at this situation differently than I have before, because maybe the way I'm looking at it now, it's not feeding me, it's not constructive. I'm banging my head into the proverbial wall every day again and again and again, and there's nothing I could do about the situation. So maybe I need to sit back up and go, maybe I need to look at the situation differently or reapproach it. And sometimes when we find out we reapproach it from a different angle or perspective, we find a little spot and we kind of dance by it for the first time. You're like, ah, the way past this was right there. But I didn't notice it because I was just banging my head into the problem or denying the problem. That's another thing, you know, I had that line later in the book, once you know it's black, it's not near as dark. A lot of times we are at least repeat offenders in crisis is in our life because we don't give the crisis credit and we don't look at the eye and we go, it'll be gone, it'll be gone, it'll be gone. We have all those things in our life. I'll start that tomorrow. I'll start that tomorrow. We procrastinate or whatever. But boy, if you look at crisis in the eye and go, oh, this is a real one. I want to deal with this and say it's black, it's dark. Well, once we do that, it's actually not as dark as we initially thought. It's like when you wake up in the middle of the night and it's dark, you walk, you can't see anything, but your eyes slowly change focus and you start to pick up shadows and images and you can see better once your eyes adjust. It helps you get your eyes adjusted if you admit something is actually dark and it's black. So that's another way. But then it becomes, I mean, at the very least, once you're facing that inevitable hardship or life is not dealing you what you hoped it would do you. I mean, to look at it another way, well, the alternative sucks. The alternative is like, well, what's proactive about that? There's no way through this around this unless I step out it admit that there's a problem or hardship or crisis and now say, am I going to out and juror or am I going to pivot and go around this or am I going to live to fight another day and say, nope, I'm out. You win. I'm moving on. Sometimes that happens in relationships. Persisting in a relationship is great. Pivoting in a relationship is great. But sometimes we got to go, hey, it's the wrong person. White flag. We had a good run. That's as far as we can go, which is a version of an extreme pivot. But I mean, the alternative basically, the very baseline of my line that the world's conspiring to make me happy is like, well, see what happens if you think the opposite. Hmm. See, see how your day is, if you're waking up going, everything is conspiring to make me unhappy. Now, I'm not saying that we're not all on the way to death. Yes. You know, you hear people say, well, you know, life is just cruel. We're on the way to dying. Well, I'd say we're on the way to dying, but I wouldn't call that cruel. And especially now let's flip that if that's an inevitable fact, which it is. So how should we go if we're deteriorating every day on our way to our death? And we want to, how do we look at that? We either go, oh, doom and gloom. What's it all for? It's for nothing. Or, and see how that goes. See how you, see how that goes or go, the same is true. We're all deteriorating. We're on our way out of here. So I'm going to make the best of it while I'm here. It doesn't make it fun. It doesn't change. Again, that's why it's not foolish optimism. It doesn't change what's happening sometimes. It's just about how we look at it and owning up to that being a fact, if it's a hardship in our life or reality in our life and saying, well, I got two ways to look at it. And which one's going to be one more fun? Which one's going to be more constructive? Which one's going to lead to me being able to evolve, to turn pages, to grow, be more true, all those things and have more fun. For sure. Yeah. And I think it, you know, the thing that I love about the book, going into what you're talking about and then diving deeper into the book is that it gives you an idea of the mindset of someone who has had success like you. And it also gives a lot into your parents and the way that they raised you, which was quite unorthodox, but it worked really well. And the one thing that I love about the stories about your parents is that it seemed like your mom and dad were really, really good at instilling hardcore confidence into you. And one of the things that I love is that you said you got your, I don't know if I love it, but I love the thing behind it, is that your third beating that you got was because you said, I can't. And I remember my mom always told me, you could do anything you want. You just are working hard. That's it. And then she always told me she was proud of me. And that was the thing that I, no matter what, I think that's super important. And your parents told you that you can't say, I can't. And so I want to dive into that and what lessons you learned from going, I can, I mean, did that give you as a child? I can do anything. I've just got to have the right mindset and the right work ethic, or what did that build in instilling you? It built resilience. It built hustle. It built giddy up. It built the understanding of collaboration. Because let me tell you one of the examples after I had already gotten, I had already learned and heard from my parents that they were too, you know, can't, it's a bad word. Again, you got your mouth washed out for saying, **** damn, but you say C-A-N-T and over the value instilled in that. You know, the others were just words. Boy, a mindset that believes I can't do something is means they were, I got that bubble of them because they meant, because they were letting me know, oh, you go out into world with that idea, world's going to be tough on you. It's going to be, you will be done on two, you know. So I remember one morning, my chores were to mow the grass and we need yard on Saturday mornings. So I go out, I'm in the back shed, trying to get the push lawnmower started. It's not starting. It's not starting. It's not starting. I check everything. It's not starting. I go inside. Dad, I can't get the lawnmower started. And I saw his molars meet. I saw this and I went, Oh, Jesus. Oh, I said the word. Oh, I say that. He got up off the bed, walked past me. I walked with him. We went out of the bedroom through the kitchen, through the garage, around the back to the backyard where the shed was, where the lawnmower was that would not start for me. He pulled it a few times, didn't start. He got down, got a screwdriver. I looked around at it. I found a hose like to the gas pipe that was, that was detached, hooked it all back together, pumped some gas, started the lawnmower. And while the lawnmower was running, six feet over there, he walks over to me, puts his hand on my shoulders, leans down eye to eye and goes, you see son, you were just having trouble. Yes. And that's what I mean by I learned collaboration as well. Yes. Even if you're unable to do something, pull something off on your own, you can still ask for help or ask for assistance or get the right tool. And it was very valuable and something that we don't allow our kids to say to this day either. And so it didn't instill supreme competence of, Oh, I can do anything. But it did say more so, I, it'll take a lot more to defeat me. Right. It will take a lot more before I cry, uncle, it will take a lot more before I go, I give, it'll take a lot more for I say, that's as far as I go. So we've got resilience and endurance and hustle. And also creativity in the collaboration to go, again, I've talked earlier about pivots, you know, and endurance, getting creative about when you're running into blockades going, your mindset, I can't figure this out. Why, why is this relationship going this way? Why do I keep trying to get this outcome and the job, but I'm not getting it. Well, I haven't yet. I'm having trouble. If you just say I'm having trouble, it just leaves it open. There's a way. There's another puzzle. He's here somewhere. That's constructive. And that was one of the values that he put in us, you know, it's just, it's just a perspective, a mindset and an understanding that actually, hell, you could even say, if you were unable to do something for 50 years, but you found someone who could, do you then go, well, I mean, maybe there's even value of going, I'm not able to, but it, but it is possible. You know, if you want to take it all the way to that extent, which then opens up, well, maybe I didn't have, maybe I wasn't educated for this thing that took me, maybe something, you know, there's certain things that people have to be an expert to pull off. So saying, not being able, so not saying I can't does not mean, oh, I can do everything. It's not about like, no, you can't just be a 50 minute expert and go, well, I am because I didn't say that. No, it's not what it means. It just means don't, like I said, don't be, stay resilient. Don't be defeated as quickly. Don't quit. Don't quit. We quit, I think too often. Me included. We quit things too often. We quit relationships. We quit doing the hard work that we know it's going to pay off if we just stick with it, man. It will, but we're so into immediate gratification. We need it now. If I'm not getting my results right now, then I'm going to say, well, I can't do it anymore. Hang on, man. This is long money. This is long money. Hang in there. This one has real value, real currency at the end. And we're talking about the kind that feels the bank account and the soul's account. Don't quit. Yeah. I think it's, I think it goes back to so many people love to start, but then they give up somewhere along the way, you know, and it's, it's, it's not that I can't. It's just that I'm not able to yet, but it doesn't mean that I won't figure out a way. Right. Yep. And that's what I love about it. And not being able to yet is exactly not being able to yet is different than I can't. Right. And too many people try one thing and it doesn't go good right away for them. So then they go to the next thing and then they go to the next thing. And then like, man, nothing works out. And it's like, no, it's not that nothing works out. It's just that you haven't been putting it up for enough time to actually succeed at something. You don't succeed at almost anything right away. It takes time to get to where you want to go. Yeah, it's true. I mean, you know, we want things to be easy, but the hard work and the persistence at certain things, if we're doing something that we have the innate ability to do and we're willing to hustle for it. And if it's in business, if there's a demand for it, you know, choose something that you can supply that can also be in demand is a pretty smart thing if you're talking about business. But yeah, how many times we go, no, if you work hard, it actually then gets easy. It actually, I get, you know, I got POV on me is for a long time in my life and career. It's been like, Oh, my kind just makes it look easy, rolls out of bed. So it's like, what are we doing today? Yeah, I've been breaking my sweat behind the doors over there so I can come out and make it look like I just rolled off the app cart. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many great stories throughout it. And one that it did, that was something that you said it was a really good lesson is, you know, number one, I was crying at the point where you were talking about your brother and his seeing eye dog. The good thing my girlfriend was driving at the time and she was driving my truck at the time because I was literally crying laughing so hard about the seeing eye dog. So that's a beautiful story that people have to hear. There's a great story about you building a 13 story freaking treehouse by yourself with stolen wood. And then there's another one of you get this and this one I want to dive into is the story of you wrestling the championship wrestler at a tribe in Africa. And it was at that moment and I love it because it's like you were challenged. You could have said no. And if nobody would have ever known, nobody would ever judge you. The one thing that I wrote it does, it says it's not about win or lose. It's about did you accept the challenge? It's not about win or lose. Did you accept challenge? Yes. And so what's the what's the story behind that? And what made you decide to go, you know what? Hell yeah, let's go ahead and arrest this guy, rate him guy in Africa. I remember the moment. We've been, I've been as in the bond year of Africa, which is these place where I think it was around the 11th century. A lot of the animist and Mali fled after the Muslim invasion. And they went off to these places and built these camps at the base of these huge mountains where the rivers flow. From these camps, these little villages are spread out between eight and 15 miles apart. And we were on about day six of our hike. So each day we'd hike the eight to 15 miles to the next place. The chief would meet you at the boundary. I'd read, you know, the chief likes what he sees in your eyes. He puts a hand out and to give a soft handshake, not a firm handshake. That means aggression. Well, I was being accepted into the chiefs evidently like what was in my eyes. So being accepted in the camp, you get to the camp. There's always a young boy in camp, usually aged 11 to 14, who was sort of the runner, you know, a new guest in town and he's going to fetch you a chicken. He's going to walk. He would walk me to the cleanest place in the river to then go brush my teeth and bathe and you'd watch out for crocodiles or people, what have you. You come back, they give you the best chair, meaning the one with the least rips in it. You know what I mean? And then you eat the chicken meal and you'd have like 10 kids sitting around and I was hungry. I would eat all of my meal. And trust me, I can clean it. I can clean the chicken bone. But I would put this plate down when I was done and all those 10 kids would be on it and clean it up even more so. Anyway, I get to this one camp one day and I'd shown up over there, Molly and said, my name was David. I was looking for anonymity. I wanted, I was going to a place where nobody knew my name. So my name is Dave. I said, I was a writer and a boxer. Well, David in Bombada, which is their native tongue, the native language is Douda. Well, very quickly became clear as word of strong white man named Douda is coming. But they didn't give a damn about the writing part. They were damn interested in the boxing part. And over there, they loved to wrestle. It's their pastime. And I'd shown up at this camp in Benjamato after about a 14 mile hike and I was laying on my back stretching as I usually do at the end of the walk. And the village kind of came around and over me. And I'd noticed this was the ritual. I show up. I look different. I'm a visitor. I'm going to be the night's entertainment, you know, from how I look to what I say to what innuendo we can have and jokes we can tell and kids playing with the kids, etc. Well, these two young men that were about 18 to 20 started to talk sort of or just had a bit of an aggression to it, right? I could tell they were talking at me. And Alina or Issa said, are they talking shit? Because this is exactly what they're doing. They're talking shit. They're challenging strong white men named Douda to wrestling match because they say they are the champion wrestlers of all the village. And I'm like, geez, they're talking all that smack. And I said, you know, in America, when people talk a lot before a challenge, it usually means they can't back it up because they're talking too much. It is the same in Africa, they talk too much. Anyway, they're coming at me and they're getting all the other villagers excited and the villagers know what they're saying, challenging me to a match to them. And I'm just laying there. I'm still stretching and all of a sudden the pitch of the village just skyrockets and the screams go up and I look up and these two boys that were talking at me just go run off sprint and everyone's laughing going on. Oh, why? Because who steps up? Michelle burlap bag around his waist tied with a rope, no shirt, no shoes, about five foot nine, five foot 10 tree trunk of a guy stands where the two boys stood. This is the real champion of the village. He doesn't say a word. He comes and stands over me. He points at my chest, points to his chest and then points to his right. And I'm laying on the ground. I know this is a challenge. My heartbeat starts to go up. I look over there and what's over there where you pointed? There's this big dirt pit. And just as I see that my heart rate starts going up. And in this year I'm going, are you kidding me? No, in way. Am I going to do that? And as I'm here in this voice, in this year, I hear, are you kidding me? If you don't, dude, you will regret this for the rest of your life. This is legendary. You've got to find out. You've got to. And so while I'm doing that, this year's winning. And all of a sudden I find myself stand up right in front of him. Heart beat pacing. I point to his chest, point to mine and move towards the big dirt pit. Now the crowd goes crazy and it's on. And I write about what happened in the wrestling match in the story. But what happened is I had handled myself pretty well. And all of a sudden after the match became what was called a big man in the village. A big man in the village. And the next day, which is a beautiful part of that story, because that guy wrestled, you got to read the day no more. He walks me. I was so graceful. But we get to the next camp the next day after that night of wrestling where I accepted the challenge. And I said to Issa, my guy, I was like, so what about last night? I mean, I think I did pretty good. And he goes, oh, no, you do very, very well. Everybody think that Michelle is going to have strong white man named Data on his back in 10 seconds. You handled Michelle. I said, ah, so I, I won. He goes, no, no, no. You were a big man in the village, not when you handed Michelle. It was not about to win or lose. You were big man as soon as you accept the challenge. And I was like, boy, take that one. Don't forget that one, Makana. Hey, you know, and it's a good one for us all more often. And I think the reason that we don't accept as many challenges or take as many risks like that or others, not that everyone's going to go to Africa and have the option to go wrestling. But what was inherent in the proverb that was thrown back at me was it wasn't about the winning and it wasn't even about the losing. Well, we usually say no to those kinds of risks because the fear of losing. But what happens when we, what really, I've found that through life, what really seems to happen is we need to be a lot less fearful of losing. And those people that do go, ha, no, no, no, baby, you lost. I saw you. Number one, they're usually not real players in this whole game. Anyway, they're usually the people on the sidelines and they're on the sidelines because that's where they belong. Number two, not as many people do that as you think. More people go, I tried that too and lost. I mean, or where'd it go? I've gotten things in my life, not for victories, but because I've had people come up and go, you stepped in the proverbial ring again and lost again, but you came back again. I want you on my team. And I think it's just don't give so much credit to the idea of losing and don't think that you're the center of the world, especially in today where it's thumbs up or thumbs down on somebody to give you, to give each person their, their identity via what we say about them. Don't, don't, don't, don't go, don't go by that. The real ones, the ones that matter, the real players, the ones that ain't on the sidelines, because that's where they, those sideline people belong. They, they appreciate the acceptance, acceptance of a challenge more than they dismiss you if you lost. Yeah. And it goes back to like the whole mindset your parents instilled and you have like, don't say you can't, there's a part of you. It's like, I could beat this guy and have the greatest story of my life. You know, I've been a Hollywood actor. I've done all these crazy things, but I could literally beat this guy in a tribe in a village in Africa and have that inside of you. How'd you never told this story? You still have an incredible experience that most people will never have. And I don't think people think about that. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, it's true. I mean, you, you read the book, it goes on the story and the, the fact that moment when I got up off the ground to accept the challenge, still, that story is still being told. If I wouldn't have done that, I don't know how many other things would have gone differently in my life. I mean, you have the story, the beautiful story of the grace of Michelle walking me back to the next village the next day. Then I go back six years later, he does the same thing. Talk about lineage and the term I use in the book is leave your scent. You know, boy, that's leaving your scent. And, you know, for me, also very just personally with, with that, you know, and it has to do with crew story. It has to do with the African stories and a lot of other walkabouts I've taken. But I've needed that in my own life being famous because I don't meet strangers anymore. And I have to sort of decipher, wait, is this person, you know, endearing, being endearing to me because of, wait, the biography of who I am. And so, so I'm always trying to measure like, wait, wait, wait, I got to make sure am I still earning this? Am I still getting credit for who I am right now? You and I just met, we've been on, been on this call for 25 minutes. Is my worth to you? What's my worth to you that I'm creating in our relationship in the last 25 minutes, but not before? Right. So to go away to faraway places where nobody knows my name, and I have a story like this, and then come back six years later and the same guy walks me 15 miles holding my hand, that goes, ah, that was all based off of the man they met named Douda six years ago. They didn't know I was an actor. They didn't never see me on TV. They didn't know I was famous. They had no biography. I was a stranger who showed up in their strange land. And when I show back up that whole village is six years later, that whole village is hugging me and everyone's grown six years old. And I'm talking to their kids who are all six years older and the fathers and Michelle and the whole village they all remember. And it's all based off of who was the man that they met six years ago who that night accepted that job. Yeah. Nothing prior. Yeah. And it's, it's a perfect example of like, there's many times throughout the, throughout the book that you can hear that you are on this journey to kind of become better in, in seek new experiences. So there's, there's, you know, literally you went to Africa and this is the moment where you're actually already famous to this point, right? So you went, so you're already famous to this point. You go to Africa and do this. There's also stories of how you literally road trip with your dog inside of an air stream when you're already famous as well. And then you go down to Akitos Peru and go on a spiritual journey in the middle of the height of when most people feel like you've made it. You've gotten to this point. And it seems like you're always trying to learn more about yourself and see what other, you know, I always say like us, us are kind of like a rose that's always constantly blooming. And as new pedals fall off, there's new pedals that pop up that we need to go, oh, I should discover this. And as you're talking about your trip to Akitos Peru, I know about Akitos Peru because I've had quite a few friends go down there and I was like, that's interesting. There's only one reason why I know people go down to Akitos Peru usually. And that's usually they do ayahuasca experiences and spiritual journeys down there. And so I'm curious with what made you decide to go down there? Do these experiences, whether it was ayahuasca, whether it was a spiritual journey in general. And at the point when most people be like, I've made it. Why go down there and find another part of yourself when you've gotten everything in this world that we're taught we're supposed to have? Well, you gotta remember that was at a time when, yes, the the the roof was taken off of all the possibilities for me. I had just gotten famous time to kill it just come out. All of a sudden, every the 99 knows out of 100 that I was getting yesterday were now 99 yeses. So when everything comes up and is open to you, and is now a yes, that's a hell of a challenge. Yeah, that's a a intimidating thing. Wait a minute. 48 hours ago, I would have done any of these and now you're telling me I can do all of them and you want me to be discerning and go, well now that I can do all of them, let me pick the one I really want out. Wait a minute 48 hours ago, I would have done anything to do any of them. Yeah. So, you know, to use the term green lights in the top of the book when all of a sudden, you know, there were 99 red lights and one green light 48 hours ago and now there's 99 green and one red. Whoa, where did where did I go? I couldn't travel down all these past just 48 hours ago. And now you're saying, go, move on forward. I'm like going, well, wait a minute. There's a whole lot more past than I've ever had. So I needed to go hear my own self thing. I needed to go let memory catch up with me. I needed to go see, check in with me and put myself in a place where I didn't have all the frequency of those green lights. I was choosing a red light by going away on my own where people didn't know my name. I didn't want to hear all the noise, all the yeses. Do this, do this. You're the greatest. This is awesome. We love you. Bye. Yes, more please. Do this one. No, do this one. Do this. Whoa, man. Hang on, I gotta go hear my self thing. So I had a dream that I go through that was not a nightmare but had elements of a nightmare but was not. It was actually just quite the opposite. Like literally the opposite. And in that dream, there were two things. Now dreams go, you can mix realities in time, right? In that dream, there was two things I was sure of. I was floating down the Amazon River and the banks on the left side of the river into the horizon was lined with African tribesmen. So I went to the Atlas to go look for the Amazon River in the continent of Africa. Two things I knew. And as most of you know, you can look forever and you won't find the Amazon in the continent of Africa because it's a wrong continent. But in my dream, those two were the same. So then I found the Amazon obviously in South America picked out a spot to say, this is where I'm heading. And I'll go chase down the first part of that dream. And that's why I went away. I was looking for somewhere to go, but that came to me as sort of a celestial sign. And I actually, what I didn't say is it was the second time I had a dream. So when I had it the second time at this time in my life where I'd just gotten all this fame and access, I went, oh, I've never had a dream that is exactly the same frame for frame 11 second dream. I've never had the exact same dream before twice. And now this must be a sign. This is telling me telling me something. And so I went off to the Amazon. And as you read later in the book, that was only half the dream. The other half was the African flag, which we prequeled this story with one of the stories to Africa, which is what led me to Mali years later. Again, exact same dream. Years after, years after I was through and said, oh, that dream came back. And to see exactly what I guess I need to chase down the other hat. Well, what's the other thing I know? Did the Amazon ask for traction? So then it was fine to place it on actual enchantments on a Mali and learn things that are better except the jetting. Yeah, man. And the thing that I love about that's consistent throughout the book is that it seems like you're really okay with betting on yourself. Like especially, I remember you would prefer. Yeah. So I remember I was watching, this is 2013, 2014. I was watching True Detective and I was like, holy s***. I didn't know that he could act like this because when you talk about, you know, how you used to be, you're kind of like put in this box and you kept betting, you wanted to get out of this box and start doing something different. Right? So we watched Dallas Buyer's Club last night because I was like, I need to watch this again just to get the whole, the whole vibe of when this switch was for you. And you decided to stop doing like the romcoms. And you got these big offers. It was like a million, you know, five million, she said no. And then they upped it to like seven million. They said no. And then I think they went to like 15 and then like 22 million or something. And you're like, Oh my God, I'm at the point where I've got to decide if I'm actually going to be real about this or if I'm going to go back to what I was actually doing. And so I'm curious behind all of that confidence and betting on yourself. How do you talk to yourself in your head? Because I know a lot of people that I've spoken to that follow me reach out and they just, there's no self-love in their head. There's not positive self-talk. I'm curious with you, are you, do you build yourself up? Are you an affirmations guy? Do you look yourself in the mirror and you're like, yes, you're amazing. Like how do you, how does Matthew McConaughey talk to himself in his head? Good question. The truth for me that usually settles on us very quietly, but like alighting both at the same time came that, you know, your work life is not challenging your real life at that time when I was only doing wrong comes and only getting offered those. It was not able to or getting offered the dramatic fear that I wanted to. That truth came to me. And I said, and I, and I wasn't sleeping well, man. I was like, I was not happy enough with my work. And I remember saying to myself, well, I'm glad your life is so vital and more vital than your work. But boy, I sure love to try and do work that can at least challenge the by-town of the life. And that was not coming through the scripts in the rom-coms and action films that I was only getting offered. So when I said, sort of, what's the big risk? You know, the bigger risk was, well, I want to find out if I can't do what I've been, what I want to do. What if I stop doing what I'm doing? And that would at least remove me from what is giving me my angst. It won't give me the place to go. Because that's not being offered to me. But maybe I just by process will make remove myself from that. So as soon as that was clear, but that's what I'm doing. And Camilla, my wife helped me out a lot. And so like, this is going to, who knows how long you're not going to go with that work. You're going to get wobbly. That bottle is going to look better to drink out of earlier in the day, all of those kinds of things. I was going to, I battled senses of, I battled, not feeling significant that I battled, not being able to feel like I could accomplish things because like I couldn't build something. I purchased a one-way ticket in the limbo. And, you know, we all know limbo is where it sucks. You know, and it goes back to earlier. I was saying, I'd rather bet on me because these things I know. If I win, I go, yes, if I lose, I go, that was on you. I just like, I like to know it. Right. So what's going through my head is it's not a daily, come on, you got this. Once that truth was clear, that's the hardest part for me. After it's clear, it's when do you put it into action? I mean, I find that the truth is clear to us more often than we give it credit to be the hard part is when do we implement it? Because we're always going, well, tomorrow will be a better time to do that. Or maybe after this next, well, let me do 14.5. Man, just do this one. And then we'll stop doing that. You can kind of, you can push the bucket and like, you know, trust me, my blood family, my brothers and mother, when I turned down those officer, like, what is your problem? But I admit it was clear to me and it was clear to Camilla why it was for me. Then it was just, okay, this is what I'm doing. I don't know if I'll ever work again in Hollywood. But even if I don't, I won't regret this decision. The only thing I will regret again, like saying, yes, I'll accept the challenge is not knowing. And if I stay in the business and do the movies that I'm getting offered, I can have a very affluent lifestyle, enjoy the work of the rom-coms, I get paid very handsomely. But those will be taking me further away from ever being able to have the chance to experience the kind of work that I want to do and act. So I said, I'll regret that more, not knowing that I will this. And it was like, if I don't work, I'll, I'll figure out something else to do. You know, I don't think I'll go back to law school, maybe I'll be a wildlife guide, maybe I'll be a orchardial conductor, a teacher, a high school football coach, I don't know, I'll figure something else out. So it's not daily, after that decision's made, I was no going back. It didn't matter. If I hadn't, that was what, 15 years ago? If I never got, if I'd still only been getting offered, the rom-coms I was getting offered that time, since then 15 years ago, I don't think I would have, I don't think you'd have seen me in any movies for the past 15 years. The decision was clear. And it was just about, and so once that became clear, that's again, once you know it's black, it's not near as dark. I said, it's black, man. For 20 months, it was black. Nothing came in. I was like, this is it. But I was like, okay. Again, when I say no understanding that it's black, when you know it's black, it's not near as dark. Saying, realizing that in this decision, it means I may never work in Hollywood again. Face that blackness. You're still willing? Let's go. Let's roll the dice. Let's accept that challenge. I'll accept that challenge. Let's just see. Now, funny thing is that along the way, I actually started to in the last year of not getting in, I started to kind of gain strength because I had, I had miles under my belt. I'd been saying no to things for like 10 months. And so each day became sort of a little more of a badge of honor for me. I became a little more like, that's right. I'm holding out, man. I'm still, I'm still on my sabbatical. I'm saying no. And then I started to feel like, you know what, the longer I'm gone here, I think I'm building a little momentum of what I'm definitely not going back now. And it became really clear to me. And at that time is when the industry started going, he's not doing any more rom-coms. He's turned out a $14.5 million offer. He's not bluffing. So let's quit offering them those. So then they offered me nothing for another 14 months. And 20 months went by. Where's McConnor? Haven't seen him in a rom-com. He hasn't been in theater. He hadn't been in our living room. He hadn't been shirtless on the beach. Where the hell is he? Hey, you know, it might be a good idea for like Lincoln lawyer, filler Joe, mud, Bernie, paper boy, Magic Mike, true detective, bass part. Well, guess who's now was now a new good idea, a novel idea. So where's he been? No one knows where he is. Here I am ready, put me in coach and just pounced on it, but it took the unbranding before the rebrand. So the daily thing, there's not a daily, it was just reminding myself, hey, outlast this. It's a longer pennant. It's a longer pilgrimage than the maybe again, facing, look at COVID right now. I call that, I call it, there's something we have this called anticipation fatigue. And it's part and parcel with, once you know it's black, it's a near start. Like in making that decision not to do the wrong comes, I said, you may never work again in Hollywood. That's saying face the worst case scenario. But if I don't do that, and I'm like going, man, it's been a couple months, man, maybe, maybe this week, maybe this week. So I'm wasting 30% of my energy on anticipating it being over. So like in COVID right now, if we're thinking about tomorrow, the last eight months, there are those of us who thought, well, maybe this week, and you get up, you get your hopes up, and you get your hopes up, and you do that that many times, you wasting energy. But if you sit there and go, this may go on forever, your body on a cellular level and a mental level slips into survival mode, you start conserving energy. And so that's what happened to me in that 20 months. I was like, I may never go back and work again. So my body slipped into lean horse, long ride, lean horse, long ride, easy. And I told myself, you're going, Camilla said, you're going to get wobbly, you're going to get anxious, you're going to get like, ah, what was I thinking? Uh-uh. The decision was clear. Let's remember this truth right here that we've agreed on. And no matter what happens, what comes doesn't come. Stick to it. Trust it. Yep. And then you do Dallas Buyers Club. You do some really big things. You win an Academy Award for Best Actor and completely change your life, but it all came because you decided to bet on yourself and you decided to stick to something and stay with your guns and what you wanted to do. And, you know, I love the, I love the speech that you gave on the Academy Awards there because you talk about how, you know, you're chasing yourself in 10 years, who you want to be in 10 years. And that's who your hero is, is you in 10 years and trying to get better. And one thing I always say is that, is that I, I believe that God has like, I like to visualize it. God has like a checklist, right? Of like, okay, Rob dial. This is everything that he could do. And always doing that and checking off. And my goal is to get to the end, go up and God looks at it and says, sh**, I didn't think you were going to do this much. Like that's, that's my goal, right? Is that, that's what I want to have happen is God be like, Tim, you did well, my son. Like, that's what I want to see. And, and what's amazing about it is that it kind of goes, what you're saying, where it's not that you have a hero that's someone else, you have a hero of the person who you want to be in your future. And so do you have a, you know, a daily of trying to get better each day so that you do become that hero in 10 years and, and you know, that this progression and wanting to see yourself get a little bit better every single day, every single day and every single day. Yeah. I call it chasing yet. I think it's something personally, a personal credo. I think it's, I think it should be our country's credo. Chasing yet. I mean, you never get to yet. There's no landings. There's not a time of moment. There's never going to be perfect equality and righteousness in America. Can we get a little bit better and have a small ascension in our life? That means, oh, I see evolution. Yeah. It's a small ramp. Even if it's just slightly a ramp or what the hell we do in growing older, what are we doing? If we're all have in us yesterday's experience from yesterday that we didn't have the day before, then there's got to be, if we utilize it, there's got to be a small ascension or at least a huge opportunity for a small ascension of evolvement as individuals, as even as a collective. It's that, I think, realizing that we can understand that we can just stay in the race and commit to the chase, to be in a little bit better, a little more true, if you don't like the word better. Sometimes people go better, worse, that's more like, no, okay, a little more true to yourself. Only we each know what that is. If you can do just a little bit in small increments, that's as good as it gets, then you're always in the process. But what we have to watch is our result orientation. I've got to get to that goal. And I'm four goals, I'm four, I'm four of those. Trust me, I used to read the book, I've written many a headline first, that I then lived the journey to the headline and pulled some of them off. So I'm all for that, but we have to watch sometimes going and understand that even when we do that, even when we pull off that goal, get that girl, win that award, whatever it is, you don't go, ah, okay. Actually, it opens up twice as many more avenues for which to go forward and evolve and get a little bit better at. There's not a land, there's not a final landing spot in this life until we die in this life. So it's, it's, it's thinking, it's, it's, it's, that's what chasing me was me in 10 years. It's just going, who am I? Who do I want? You know, and you have to watch it's different for everybody, how far out they can project because maybe 10 years is too far for somebody. And you don't want to be like, well, I want to chase who I want to become because you got to give yourself credit for who you are right now too. You know, so you can't be just completely objective without just saying, no, I'm going to live out my moment as who I am. But it's a step at a time is the subjective with the big picture in mind, which is the objective, project from forward of where I want to go and who I want to go. And it's balancing those two, I believe. Because maybe for some people, that's like, hey, a month out is as far as I can think. A month away is as far as I can project where I can simultaneously understand the paradox in that who I want to be and who I am. If you can just keep stretching that as far out as possible while keeping those two in relation. I mean, I think ultimately, the place, the extent in this life is to think about your eulogy. Think about how your kids introduce you when you're gone, how the world introduces you when you're gone. Now, that's a daunting task. But it's an exhilarating task. And even if you can't keep hold the concept of it, just give it a give it a nudge, give it a try, or walk the dog out and go, I can think about, I can think of who my heroes mean a month, what can I get better at and be more true in this month. And then that'll lead to maybe six months down road. Then maybe you can think a year, then maybe think two years, five, 10, 20, 30, and it can start to extend. You can kind of, it works out your, your, your projection muscles, you know, um, mentally and spiritually. Um, but that's, that's, that's what that is chasing yet. We can understand that that's, that's, that's it. You don't get there. We never get there. And that's the point. Yeah. Yeah. And literally could not ask for a better transition to the question. I love to ask people at the end. But, uh, first I want to honor you, man. I appreciate your time. Uh, I love the book, like actually love the book. I thought it was amazing. I think everybody needs to get it. It's called green lights and it's the memoir of the past 35 years, I guess the past 50 years of your life, but going through journals for 35 years of taking journals. And, uh, I, I tell my mom, it was really weird to her. Cause I tell her, I think about death every day and she goes, why the hell do you think about death every day? And my dad died when I was 15. And so since that day, I've thought my time is coming at some point in time. Like I know it is. So my biggest fear is to get to the end of my life and have regrets and things I wish I would have done. And you're talking about your eulogy in the time when, when people, what people say about you after you leave. And there's a phrase that says, you know, there's, they say you die twice. First is when you're in the cask and you stop breathing. And this last time is the last time that someone says your name. And so I'm curious with you, in between the first death and the second death, what do you think and what do you hope people say about you? Yeah. You know, I, I believe it. Are you a parent? No. Okay. Well, when you, you know, you just, you just purported an extension of saying, hey, the life we live makes us immortal. Right. Well, when you have kids, it's another thing. Oh, now I'm actually literally immortal. You know what I mean? I think that, you know, if I was introduced to being somebody that, you know what, McConaughey was at home in the world. He saw himself as who he was individually. The boy sure did see himself and others. And, and, and, as well. He damn sure committed. He didn't half-ass it, to use my dad's word. He didn't half-ass things. He didn't know how to half-ass things. He really didn't know how to half-ass things. He wasn't always right. Wasn't always true. But he wasn't always right. But, but he was at least true. I had this, I had this director tell me this one time. In this scene where I'm, I'm, I'm the scene I'm very rigid about or at least secure with what I know about what my man as in the character and the story would do and wouldn't do. And this director was like going, no, but you should, I want you to do this. I'm like, oh no, I wouldn't do that. Nah, I'm doing this. And he goes, you know, McConaughey, you're never wrong. And I went, thank you. And he goes, but there's more than one way to be right. And I went, oh, I remember putting my hand up going to Shea. Mark Waters was his name. It was a great, it was a great one. It was a great lesson. So I would say, yeah, I wasn't always right, but I was always did my best to be true. And maybe, maybe, maybe something to how much truth you can get out of good humor? You know, we see that as such a contradiction. Like, oh, we're going to laugh at the crisis. It means you're denying the crisis. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're not actually un-ties that knot. It helps to people have real confrontation where they can finally get get unified over a situation. Anyway, I'm probably going long on my eulogy, aren't I? He didn't have acid. It's your own eulogy world. And he, you know what? In that I revered fatherhood as the greatest, the most freeing and privileged job. I love that, I love it, man. Well, once again, I fully recommend everybody go out there, get the book. It's incredible, especially the audio book where you get to hear your voice and the voice inflection and all of the crazy. I was, I was telling my girlfriend, I was like, I think he needs to be the Doseki's guy, cause he might be the most interesting man in the world. Just the shit that happens in the book and all the stories that you tell. I appreciate you for being here. I appreciate your time. I know that you're a busy, busy man. And I recommend everybody go get that book. Well, I quite enjoyed talking to you and whoever is listening to that there, hope you enjoy it. Yeah, thanks so much, ma'am. Appreciate it.