 Did we enable the general chat? Yes, I'm going to go to do that right away. And sorry for disabling the chat. Let me just start with the webinar, and then I will also enable the chat as we go. So good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, everybody, depending where in the world you're zooming in from. Thank you for joining us today. We are delighted to share with you our next Hyperledger in-depth webinar with Indicio on scaling verifiable digital credentials using open source technology. We are very excited about today's presentation. My name is Tomar Sadej, and I'm an ecosystem manager at the Hyperledger Foundation. Today, I will have a chance to introduce the panelists and also take you through some housekeeping. And as usual, if you attended some of our other Hyperledger in-depth webinars, we first have some housekeeping rules. First, everybody is welcome in our Hyperledger global community. We are striving to create a safe and welcoming environment for all. So please follow the Hyperledger Code of Conduct when interacting with each other and while talking to other in the community as well. You can find our Code of Conduct on our wiki and also on our web page. All Hyperledger Foundation member webinars are held under the Linux Foundation Antitrust policy, which you can find on our wiki and on our event page as well. We are recording this webinar, and the recording will be available within our webinar library along with the slides. So you can always go back and review whatever has been discussed today. We are also live on YouTube and welcome to everybody also joining us there. Now, we encourage these sessions to be as active and engaging as possible. So please raise the hand button to an S to get unmuted and I will do so. And of course, the more activity and participation we will have, the better experience everyone will have. You can also post questions in the chat while I enable it and the Q&A box and this will be then relate to our panelists at the end of the session. For those of you whose questions will not get answered, we will also encourage you to join our Discord channel, which I will also share at the end of the presentation and ask your questions there. Now, without further ado, I'm very happy to introduce our panelists, which is James, who is the Vice President of Business Development in DCM and also Mike, who is an Enterprise Software Lead. We are looking very much forward to this webinar and James and Mike, over to you. All right, thank you, Thomas. Thank you everyone for joining today. We're very excited to be here. Let me go ahead and share my screen and we'll get started. So yeah, thanks for joining today. We're very excited to be here to demo DCO Proven. As Thomas had mentioned, this is a solution that we recently released. It's built on open source technology and can be used by enterprises, by organizations, by individuals to get started with verifiable credentials and decentralized identity technology. It can be used to create a complete open source trusted digital ecosystem and can be configured to specific use cases or pain points that your organization or your customers are dealing with. We are very excited and proud and membered of the Hyperledger Foundation and are thankful to the support that we get from the foundation as well as other contributors in the community. We happily contribute back to the community as well. And we think that collaboration and the open source contributions from individuals and organizations in the space is really what's leading to the adoption and driving forward of this technology. And so a lot of those in the audience today are members of the community. And so we thank you for your active participation as well. So I'm sure most of you are familiar or have at least heard of Hyperledger Indie areas in Ursa and maybe have somewhat of an understanding of the underlying technology that makes verifiable credentials possible. Today we'll see in action how it all comes together. To give a little bit of background context, the problem that this solves regarding digital identity stems from the well-known fact that originally the internet was created without that critical identity layer for people, entities and things. And as the world becomes more increasingly digital, especially in the last two and a half years with the global pandemic, people migrating to a more online centric or digital centric lifestyle, digital identity becomes a crucial piece to making everyday life possible. And for interactions to happen online, there needs to be trust between people, places and things. So as that massive digital scaling has happened, it's become difficult for organizations to tackle the authentication challenges while protecting the privacy of those involved and doing it in a secure manner. So it's a major pain point. Not only is it painful, it costs a lot of money for businesses, for enterprises and for customers, it just makes for a cruddy experience. For businesses, for example, dealing with the hacks and breaches that come as a result of not being able to verify who it is on the other side that you're dealing with. The loss of productivity of employees having to change their passwords or deal with cumbersome, two-factor authentication, three-factor authentication. And just earlier today, I saw four-factor authentication. So hopefully it doesn't go beyond that, but this is where verifiable credentials come in and make it a lot more streamlined for people to be able to interact online. There was a recent report that the annual cost for the global economy as a result of digital identity-related fraud, hacks, breaches, all those sorts of things is 5.38 trillion. Here in the United States alone last year, it was upwards of $52 billion for businesses and enterprises, private organizations dealing with identity-related challenges. So it's a major pain point. It costs lots of money. And so it's something that organizations are looking to figure out. So there's a better way to the way that digital identity has been managed so far through federated ID or through traditional identity providers which are convenient and are very useful in a lot of situations, but have struggled to manage the challenges of increasing threats online and more complicated systems of ID spoofing or complicated hacks and breaches. So this is where trusted digital ecosystems come in. Creating ecosystems where trust is an intrinsic part of what occurs, being able to trust all the parties involved in the interactions. I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with what some refer to as the trust triangle. We think this is a basic diagram of what a trusted digital ecosystem looks like. So you have the main participants being issuers here on the left. You have your holder or the person receiving the credential up at the top. And then you have your verifying organizations down at the bottom. Involved in that is a form of a registry for verifiable data. Some call it a verifiable data registry. Some call it the ledger decentralized identity network. There's a couple of different terms for it, but the concept is the same. So in this relationship, there's the issuer organization who has taken efforts to establish identity and through some manner either performing KYC or having proved some sort of aspect about an entity or a person and packaged that into a verifiable credential. And then anchoring the schemas and the dids of those entities down to the ledger and then issuing that credential to the holder where it's then held in some sort of digital wallet, whether that's a cloud hosted wallet or on device or a community type wallet, there's different variations of it. The holder with that credential can now present that to a verifying organization who can with the surety know that the information they're in truly did come from that issuer and has not been tampered with in the process. Checking the keys on the network, verifying that the original location of the issuer is a trusted organization in their opinion or according to their ecosystem rules can know that the information being presented to them is correct and that allows for the holder to make some sort of transaction or participate in some service or get access to some type of thing. So let's take a bank, for example, issuing a customer credential to customer. That customer can take that credential either back to the bank to be verified or if the bank has partnering organizations who have chosen to accept that credential and trust that bank as an issuer can allow that customer to participate in some activity on their end as well. So that's the gist of a trusted digital ecosystem. Now, the software behind it is what we're gonna see today with proven that makes all of this possible based on open source. But right now we'll do a little context on currently the landscape of the verifiable credential, the space. Some of the challenges have been one-off type solutions or the lack of interoperability between wallets or ecosystems or providers that focus on one thing. And so we noticed that a lot of enterprises were struggling to find a complete ecosystem that they could implement and use right off the bat. So this is where NDCO proven comes in based on the Hyperledger Indie areas and URSA protocols based on that open source technology. It's a complete ecosystem that comes with all of the components needed to issue, hold and verify digital credentials based on a Hyperledger Indie network and using an areas based wallet which we'll see demonstrated today. So it's a complete starter kit so organizations can pick it up and integrate it into the systems that they already have. They don't need to spin up their own or create their own issuing agents or verifier agents. Everything in the package comes with what they need. It comes with what they need to start issuing credentials right away based on their credential needs. It's capable of being customized and you can add new functionality into it as needed and as you scale up your use case. So how does proven create a trusted digital ecosystem? As mentioned, it comes with the different software components needed to issue, hold and verify credentials. So what we're about to see in the demo, we're gonna see the proven issuer where an organization and enterprise can not only create but issue credentials to the correct individuals who will receive that credential in their holder agent or their mobile wallet. And today we'll be looking at the holder plus digital wallet which in DCO we announced yesterday which we're excited to do a little showcase as part of this demonstration to show how it can receive credentials as part of the proven ecosystem. The holder who now has that credential can present it and then use the proven verifier to verify the credential that they received. Today's demonstration is based on the DCO test network or a demo network and showcases how a hyperledger indie network can be used for this. In general, the proven ecosystem can be connected with any hyperledger indie network of choice any of the existing networks or a private network can be spun up to be connected to it as well because it is based on those open source protocols indie areas in Ursa. It's interoperable with other areas wallets other areas related ecosystems and other indie networks. So looking down at the proven issuer agent as well as the proven verifier agent or what we call enterprise agents they're based on the hyperledger areas protocols. So they're using Acapai areas cloud agent Python their server-based agents with a JavaScript controller. The wallet, so holder plus is an areas framework JavaScript with the hyperledger areas byfold UI on top of that. And the ledger as mentioned is a hyperledger indie instance. So what can you do with proven and why would you need it? It can be used to verify who your organization is interacting with. So let's say you're an HR manager for example and you're onboarding a new employee and prior to the hiring process you need to be exchanging sensitive information with them. So establishing trust between you and between them using proven to issue them credentials to either access your system or to message with them to exchange information in a way in which you can verify their information. The nice thing about it is that it allows for organizations to interact with individuals in a way that doesn't violate their privacy. So respecting HIPAA regulation, GDPR, CPR in California and the pending IATIS 2.0 out of the European Union which hasn't officially been ratified yet. There are amendments in the works but this puts you in a great position to be able to accommodate those coming regulations and the sensitivities and liabilities that are involved with those. Between the issuers and verifiers there doesn't need to be a direct database integration on the backend. So let's say you as an organization or registering a credential to your individual or entity that you're identifying and they take that credential to either be issued by another organization or internally within your own they can do that without having to connect into some sort of database on your end to they don't have to phone home and create another layer of friction there. It uses secure encrypted peer to peer communication and we'll also see that in the demo today with the holder wallet how communication can occur between two wallets but there's also that secure transfer of information between the enterprise agents and the agent itself. So it's a very, very light ecosystem that's easily scalable because there aren't those complicated spaghetti noodle integrations on the backend. So as mentioned, easy to integrate in it's built on interoperable components open source, open standards. And so the model that this works off of is that when an organization uses proven they can purchase it as a package that they can then own as their own solution. It's not a proprietary platform that they're locked into as much as we love working with organizations and we would love for them to continue to work with us they're not stuck with a single provider. So they could continue to either work on it internally on their own, we can support it or they can work with other vendors to continue to build out the functionality. So that's the beauty of working on the Hyperledger open source protocols. As mentioned, we're gonna see a small showcase of Holder Plus, which is a digital wallet based on the Hyperledger areas bifold project which the NDCO team has been contributing heavily to and we're excited to have a few members of the community here today that have also contributed to that. So thank you to the community for making the interoperability of these wallets possible. We're also gonna see a new feature of this wallet where you can communicate between wallets using didcom messaging. So we'll show how the Holder wallet fits inside inside the proven ecosystem as a whole. We'll go ahead and yeah, as I mentioned we'll be showing the messaging capability between wallets which we're really excited about and there's additional functionality and capabilities that will be coming shortly in the future that we're also excited to showcase. But as mentioned, we'll go ahead and we'll do a demo of proven, Mike will share a screen and walk through that. And as you're watching this presentation think of the use cases you have in mind where verified identity could be useful to either reduce friction, reduce cost, solve for liability in your particular use case. So Mike, I'll hand it off to you to show proven. All right, so there are two pieces to this proven demo that I wanna go through. One is a brief discussion of some of the technical aspects and then another is a walk through of a simple use case, simple workflow. So besides the stuff that James has already mentioned proven takes care of a bunch of things for you that can be a pain when you're trying to get a digital ecosystem up and running. So for example, proven comes with a Docker compose setup with various containers. So you can post your solution on any server that supports Docker or have it run reliably on a local development environment includes some proxy mediators for all of the agents involved so that when you lose connectivity or whatever you can get a reliable connection back and it helps improve security for server-based agents that have to be behind the firewall. It comes with the MDCO public mediator and test net setup by default. Comes with keys for various encryption points already preconfigured or easy to set up. There's a first time setup script so that instead of having to walk through a lot of different steps manually you can run the first time setup script and it will help you get everything set up as you go. It includes an initial schema, an email schema and comes with a database system that includes migrations. It's got a controller and a UI written in Node.js with Express on the back end and React on the front end. It manages agent state. So ACAPI does a good job of being an agent but sometimes it's tricky to get the state of your connections or your list of credentials, et cetera, out of ACAPI. And so we've provided some ways to make that a little easier. Okay, so that's kind of some of the technical server related et cetera stuff that comes out of the box. Let's do a little walkthrough. So here is the proven issuer home screen and includes a help section and then allows you to configure the agent in some ways. So for example, you can change the display names of the agent here. You can change the logo and icons that are displayed. Some applications that refer to a web application, some operating systems or devices use a web app manifest so you can configure those settings here. Some of the workflows around the email involves sending an email and there's also a user management system so you can configure an email account for sending email and you can white label the agent by adjusting either those logos or icons for any of these common colors that are in the application. So for example, if we want our buttons to be red, we could pick a nice red color and change them. Oh, that's a orange color. I know red, there's red. So you can configure the color settings. Some other things that takes care of for you is you can set up user accounts that would allow you to administer the system and add, edit and remove users, resend their information, reset their passwords, things like that so that you can control who is managing your system and without having to set that all up yourself, Provenal will help you get that running. Let's see what else is in here. Okay, so we mentioned that it helps you manage your state so it includes a list of contacts. So there we go. So we have a couple of testing contacts in here and you can go ahead and view more information about a particular contact. So for example, we can see that when I was testing the system, I was able to issue myself a credential. You can view the credentials issued to a particular individual. You can also view the full list of credentials and go to fill into any particular one. So here's one that I issued to myself earlier. Right now this list of credentials only shows email credentials, but if you had other types in your system, those would all be shown in one place. So Proven is not limited to just email credentials but that's what it comes with configured out of the box for proof and concept and demonstration purposes. So you can get a feel for how things work. The code includes what you need to manage browser sessions and WebSocket connections and we're working on an HTTP API. So some of the calls already exist. So for example, you can create invitations, you can issue credentials and you can request presentations at the moment. We're working on adding additional protocols such that you have access to the full power of Acropy but through an API that helps make it easy. All right, so those are some of the technical details to what Proven offers. So next we're gonna go through a simple workflow and for those of you who are familiar with identity applications, this one may seem trivial and rather simple but it shows that the whole ecosystem out of the box is ready to do things and it should be understandable for everybody to follow. So we're gonna take three main steps. We're going to prove that I control a particular email address. We're going to issue myself an email credential and then we're gonna take that email credential from my holder to our verifier and present that credential to verify that it's correct and accurate and came from the issuer. So we're gonna simulate being just me and the demonstration comes with a self-serve email credential system. So I'm gonna type in my email address here and once I submit this, it's going to send me a personalized invitation. Okay, capture, stairs, don't miss any. Okay, I sent it quickly. Let's hit the button more than once. Okay, so I sent myself an invitation with a unique code. I'm gonna stop sharing for just a second so I can get in my email without exposing everything. All right, I'll show the screen again. So you can see here that there's an invitation in my email account. We'll zoom in a little bit. Text does not want to set scale. All right, so we'll follow that link and you can see my unique code in the URL and now I have a unique invitation for receiving an email credential. So the next thing to do is use holder to connect to our enterprise issuer and receive a credential offer. So on the right here, you'll see holder plus. It's like James mentioned, it's built on AFJ and Byfold and it can be white labeled. So you could swap out this logo and icon and text, et cetera. And it's got a little bit of an intro for people to understand what a wallet is. Go ahead and get started and scroll through these terms and the privacy policy. All right, asks me to pick a name that I'd be comfortable sharing with financial or legal institutions, et cetera. So put my name in here, pick a pin number and initialize our wallet. All right, so here we are ready to connect. So I'm gonna press our connect button here and we're gonna scan this to our code. All right, so now we're connected to proven and we've received our credential offer. So you can see the pieces of my email address. So they have them separated and combined and a verified timestamp. So I'm happy to receive this credential. Some, you know, this is a basic credential but you could use it in various contexts. Like so, for example, if you were trying to communicate with a customer, if you were trying to have one part of your business prove to another system in your business that someone has legitimate participation in your business accounts and systems, you could use it with some extension to set up a login system, a number of things like that. So I'm gonna accept my credential and it's been added to my wallet. So our next step would be to go to the verifier and show that we've got a real credential. So we're gonna go over to the verifier screen. I'm gonna make sure that I've got a good invitation here and we're gonna connect. All right, so we can see we've got two contacts, proven and the proven verifier and there's some information requested. So the verifier is asking for my email. You'll notice that it's a selective disclosure. It's not asking for all of the fields. So that's an example that shows that you can do things to help preserve privacy only ask for the information that you need. So I'm gonna go ahead and share that. And on both screens, it shows the information was received and the credential was verified. So like we said earlier, this is just a simple demonstration but with the APIs that are available, for example, the verifier has an API where you could link with an external system and send a notification that says, yeah, the verification occurred and this email is kosher. So go ahead and trigger additional actions that are part of your existing systems. You could do things like logins or so on once this verification occurs. And this is a nice simple use case where once you set proven up, you can see that the whole, the entire ecosystem is up and running. So that's our demo of the trust triangle and the full ecosystem with the issuer, the holder, the verifier and then the underlying technology like the mediators and the network did come in a non creds. Next, we're gonna do some secure communications. So we're going to connect to this other wallet here toward John Doe wallet. So John Doe is gonna display a QR code on his wallet and then Mike Ebert is gonna scan his QR code from his. And so now I have a new contact of John Doe here. So I'm gonna do hand this here. One phone in each hand. And so John is gonna type me a message and say hi. And since I'm feeling a little bit mischievous, I'm gonna switch and I'm gonna send him a response in Russian. By Fold supports UTF-8 for messaging. So I can send Russian characters. And John's confused by this. And saying, sorry, just having some fun. And this is cool because these two wallets have generated an invitation and exchanged their pairwise dids. They're communicating over did come and the messages are encrypted. So we have a peer to peer connection here and it's all secure and happy. They're each using their own mediator and all the exchanges is going just fine and now they can chat in a secure context. So that's a cool feature that Holder includes that we've recently added that we're pretty excited about. One of the examples here is you could, for example, say we're going to connect to an agent. We're gonna request their email credential and then the server-based agent could also have a messaging box like this and you could communicate securely between a customer or an employee over secure channels and not worry about your information getting lost. So with that, I'm gonna turn some time back over to James here because the demo is complete. All right, thanks, Mike. Okay, let me pull this up here. Okay, so yeah, as Mike just demonstrated what comes in the box, here's a quick summary of what you just saw. So it comes with a verifiable credential schema so a flexible cloud hosted template for creating a verifiable credential. Comes with the issuer and verifier agents and it also comes along with the mobile app, the digital wallet and the mediator agent or agents that are needed to support the mobile apps. Also comes with machine readable governance capability and this is crucial for scaling your use case as you bring on different issuing and verifying organizations and creating the governance rules needed for your ecosystem to operate in a way that satisfies your organization's needs and accepting certain type of credentials or requesting certain types of information from the holders of credentials. It also comes with as default a connection to a distributed ledger network, an Indeed network of choice. Comes with support and training offered by our team along with maintenance and updates to make sure that you have the most up to date system especially as the open source community and standards evolve. Having that ongoing support is a good way to stay interoperable with other systems as well. As mentioned, all these components are based off of publicly available standards models and repos that I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with. So I saw in the chat the question about what are some of the top B2B use cases or customers? Who needs this? Who's asking for this and who's looking for this? Proven as come as a result of the open source work that we've done along with our experience working with our clients and customers who need a way to issue credentials to people or things in their ecosystems. So some of the top use cases as you can imagine are in industries where it's highly regulated and there's a lot of liability if identity can't be established. So banking and finance, for example, satisfying those KYC requirements needed for customers to be able to do certain things with them or interact with them, transfer money, open up new accounts, those sorts of actions. Travel, obviously, there's a lot of different areas where identity comes into play before you board an airplane. There's an identity component to that, crossing a border, identity checks that happen. With healthcare, for example, consenting to information being released or shared between organizations, a lot of HIPAA-related healthcare privacy implications that come with health data being transferred. Interestingly enough, in the healthcare space, there are organizations that don't want anything to do with a customer's healthcare information but have to in some way interact with it. This is where verifiable credentials are nice because that information remains with the holder of the credential and doesn't have to be stored by a third party in some sort of centralized database, putting them at some sort of risk of breach of that information. So those are some examples of organizations that are using it and those organizations have approached us and the feedback that we've gotten that led to proven was they're looking for a way to quickly set up an ecosystem. They wanna start issuing credentials and they wanna start verifying credentials and they don't want to have to do all the dirty work of figuring out how to make it interoperable, having to dig through all the repos. They just wanna solve their pain point. They just wanna be able to make it easier for their customers or internally for whichever department needs to handle that. So I hope that answers the question but it's across many industries where identity plays a role, not just with people but also with devices, being able to identify a machine or an IoT device and allowing for secure access to that device as well. So we're seeing traction with IoT, the spatial web area too. I'm sure you might be familiar with one of the use cases where components of proven and the open source underlying technology has been put into action with CEDA, Aviation IT Technology Provider along with the government of Aruba using verifiable credentials for passenger health information as well as digital travel credentials, being able to have a essentially a passport represented in the form of a verifiable credential and connected to the holder of that credential through biometrics and facial recognition at the airport. So lots of different ways to use proven and integrate into your system and DCO provides support options to install it, to help integrate it or we can simply provide training on how to do that and provide instructions. We can help configure. There's any customized capability that you need that could be added on top of that. It can be a white labeled solution rebranded how for you or for your customers, however you need it and we can help, yeah, curate it in a way that solves not only your problems but your partners and anyone who you add into your ecosystem. You have that basic ecosystem of issuers, holders and verifiers. And then as it expands there will be other organizations that want to consume the credentials that your organization offers that opens up new revenue opportunities to be a credential provider, new opportunities for your customers to interact with partnering organizations or within a consortium of some sort or within an ecosystem where you have interest in being involved. So lots of flexibility with proven and what you can do with it. So we wanna invite everyone to go ahead and get your first verifiable credential today. And Mike, if you have a link to the on our website we have where you can start using proven issuer to receive your credential in your holder wallet and connect to the proven verifier to have that verified. And you can download a holder with the discount code that we're gonna be providing here in the chat in just a second. So feel free to go ahead and try it out and get started and we're happy to answer any questions. So feel free to reach out and we can help get you going on a use case or a project where you could use verifiable credentials. But yeah, I think we can go ahead and open up for Q&A. I know we have some questions coming through here in the chat. Let's see. So I'm gonna read off a couple that we that were typed and answered a little earlier just in case people haven't read those and if they have subsequent questions. So one of the questions was why are we still using an email and a password for the user authentication system? And could we pivot to DIDS? And the answer there is that, yes, we absolutely could pivot to DIDS or credential-based login for just to get started. We thought let's focus on issuing and verifying the credentials that are important to the business use case first. And we'll just go with a simple existing flow for users but we're working on making DIDS or credentials the default for logging into the proven admin screens as well. So that's coming, it's a good thought. Another question was, is there a way to see the DID which is generated for the user? So in the enterprise agent in the list of contacts it would be relatively straightforward to display that DID and then I don't know if we would want to in a mobile agent for making it user friendly for end users as much but theoretically that's possible as well if it's something that you wanted to do. And then finally, Kyle asked, is proven a hosted service run by Indicio? If so, is there a different service for the issuer and the verifier? And the answer to that one is right now it's not a SaaS platform. Indicio offers hosting and you can also use your own hosting. Eventually we'll have a SaaS platform where you can sign up and provision an agent and specify a type set of payment, et cetera without having to interact with either the hosting config yourself or with needing Indicio to assist you with that but that's coming down the road while we focus on some other functional priorities in the short term. And that's a read through the questions that were already typed out. Let's see if there are any others. Yeah, thank you James and Mike very much for this very interesting presentation and for the attendees so feel free to also raise your hand and I can unmute you and you can also ask your question live. Oh, Mike, I think we got something coming in. Looks like question about web 3.0. Web 3.0 is supposed to have blockchain slash security built in admittedly my understanding of 3.0 is weak. Could you talk about your relationship to web 3.0? Is it competition or does it facilitate Indicio? So often when people think of web 3.0 they think of all of the use cases that have to do with the common blockchains that people are familiar with like Bitcoin and Ethereum, cryptocurrencies and smart contracts and things like that. And that technology is really useful for things that need to be verified publicly and that you're okay with being out on a ledger that everyone can read. And those solutions put all of their data out on those blockchain ledgers. The identity use case that we have here relies somewhat on some of the same technology. So the did and the keys and the relationship of an issuer to a particular schema and the schemas those are stored on a ledger where everyone can view them and get at them at any time. And that's the public component of the solution that helps make this work really smoothly. But all of the sensitive private data that is issued by the issuer lives in just inside the credential that the holder has and it's secure and under their control. So in some ways they utilize some of the complimentary technology, some of the same things but because the use cases private versus public it's managed differently for some parts of it. And Daniel Buckner and Block and are looking at they've branded this a kind of a web 5.0 solution where you take the best of web 3.0 with these public ledgers and cryptocurrencies and smart contracts and you pair them with the privately held identity information that is in self-sovereign identity or verifiable credentials and you put the two of those together and you can manage both your public and your private data in the way that makes sense for each use case and security is part of both solutions. You have keys and encryption top to bottom all over the place. And so you put the two together and then you get what they call web 5.0. Hopefully that's a good answer to that question. And what's interesting here with the blockchain the blockchains involvement in a trusted digital ecosystem it is really the most boring part about it. The really cool stuff is happening at the agent level between the organizations that are able to verify identity on the end. The ledger's purpose is obviously just for the anchoring some called a trust anchor of sorts. So a lot of the enterprises that we work with when they hear the term blockchain there's a lot of misconceptions or preconceived notions they have that come from the crypto world where there's the speculative aspect of it where cryptocurrency involved in this case it's not like that. So sometimes we avoid the term blockchain because it could be confusing or go down a tangent that we wouldn't necessarily want to go down. So decentralized identity network or ledger because in this case there's not any sort of proof of work or mining going on. It's just a check of a verification of a transaction that's very, very energy efficient. So I guess you could say a lot of differences from the traditional web 3 understanding but involves some common aspects of it if that makes sense. So one of the questions was what are some of the top B2B use cases our customers are asking for? So I suppose we could talk a little bit about some of those. Most of the information that people need a verifiable credential solution for are pieces of information that they want to have the held privately not exposed to the whole universe and that requires verification and security. And so for example, in some of the banking use cases you need to go through a KYC I know your customer process. And once you go through that process it's really nice to use a non-creds and Aries wallets for recording that information because you can record it in a way where you can verify who issued it and prove that it wasn't tampered with. So you can rely on the issuing party to say I can trust this KYC to data because someone already looked into it someone reliable proved that this data was there. And using a non-creds and Aries wallets there's a level of holder binding. So you know that that credential was issued to this particular wallet originally and has not been fiddled with or moved to another wallet. So as long as you trust the wallet, perhaps the wallet uses a fingerprint or a face scan or something like that to tie this to the individual then you can rely on that KYC to verify data to still be relevant. So you don't have to go through the KYC process over and over again. So that's a case with like say banking with the travel use case it's public knowledge that we're doing work on the digital travel potential and making that work with a non-cred equivalent so that you can travel and prove your identity based on your passport. So those are most of the use cases are starting with identity but there are some other use cases that go beyond that to say there's perhaps accounting data where you want the data to be verifiable but for a private organization shouldn't be published broadly. We're also working on some mixed use cases where someone asked about the oil and gas. There's one use case where we're working on some emissions data where we're helping some organizations publish and then share and then have their emissions data verified so that they can show the world that they're keeping track of their emissions and report what their emissions or their offsets are. So those are a couple cases but generally speaking it's information that needs to be privately held but also verifiable and mostly to do with identity. I just saw a question come in from Jacques. I noticed hyperledger areas in India's code bases would the credentials meet European and Union's privacy requirements or a non-creds code base could be used instead? Mike that might be a better question for you but one thing that comes to mind is one of the amendments in AIDIS 2.0 that is calling for a ZKP capability as well as selective disclosure. That's one of the reasons that we use a non-creds as a way to satisfy those requirements although they're not officially ratified or AIDIS isn't officially in place yet but that's the power of a non-creds shows how that can be handled. So some of the European privacy concerns and legislations are to, they want people to be able to privately hold their data. They are asking for a selective disclosure so you only disclose what you need to disclose. There are some situations that require zero knowledge proofs and there are lots of potential formats. Some of them are not, they're working towards but aren't ready to do selective disclosures or predicate or non-disclosing proofs like that, zero knowledge proofs. And then the holder binding is another thing that some other solutions struggle with a little bit. So if the latest European privacy legislation that's being considered, if it were ratified right this second, as far as I'm aware a non-creds are the only credential format that meets all of those privacy concerns. So if you have European privacy concerns a non-creds are a very good solution because they meet those requirements. So real quick for the discount codes for the holder app I believe it's one discount code is available per email address in case you're having an issue getting that. So just a heads up. So in the last three minutes here Helen has prompted me to talk about, she's reminded me that I should talk about my work with machine readable governance. And we're proud of that work. That's some data formats, some code and some agreements or precedents or best practices for encoding the laws and the rules, the processes that are agreed upon by participating organizations and individuals taking that and encoding it in a way that our agents and our software can help us to obey and follow and understand those procedures. And proven is going to include decentralized ecosystem governance. So we're gonna make available code that will be able to read those governance files and interpret what's encoded there to look at we're starting with who are the trusted issuers and verifiers and eventually we'll be adding other roles and the ability to script some workflows, some actions and we'll be working on how to publish, discover, share ingest, export, et cetera, work with those files that make those workflows trustworthy and understandable for ecosystems and overlapping and interconnected ecosystems. Well, thank you very much, Mike and thank you very much James. We are at a time, so I think we need to wrap up but thank you very much. You covered a lot of very interesting and useful information and thank you to everybody joining us. If you have any questions for either us or in DCO team please feel free to reach out to us or the DCO team. And as mentioned all of the recording and also the slides will be available on the Hyperledger webinar library. Now, before we say goodbye I would also like to invite you to join our Discord channel join our Discord community where you can explore or the channel is related to our projects special interest groups, working groups and more. We have a very active Discord community and you are very welcome to join us there. We have some other upcoming webinars and workshops and you can find those on our events website and there was some questions from the YouTube today. So the best way to stay up to date is go to our event website. So one particular workshop that I would like to highlight is within DCO and it's about building your identity solution using Hyperledger Aries. It's gonna be held on November 10th. Again, thank you everybody for watching and thank you so much again James and Mike for this wonderful presentation. And again, feel free to reach out to us if you need any other information. Thank you for watching and see you next time. Thank you everyone, thank you Thomas. Thanks.