 Right. Okay. So everybody, welcome to the King's Maritime History Seminaries, the latest installment. Welcome to the Lawton Naval Unit here in the Department of War Studies at King's College London, Security Studies. Gosh, let's do the whole, let's do the whole works. Welcome to the Sir Michael Howard Center for the History of War, which this is also a part. But of course, welcome to the series of seminars organized by the British Commission for Maritime History series of seminars that are organized in association with the Cyber Nautical Research, and of course with the support of Lloyd's Register. So I have the pleasure to Emma Cooper, who has got her own sort of technological arrangement and I hope you can see her down there in the corner ready to go. This is a familiar from the King's seminars back in the days when attendees had faces, but I hope you remember hers was always very welcome Emma has a background in furniture design and, you know her work is in number of historic houses and museums around the place but all the while she's had this long interest in the men that were aboard. It's a historic worship course that you can you can see there but everybody, everybody knows it, but I don't think they know the crews so well the men who are actually there and so it's an absolute delight to welcome. Speaking about with the wonderfully spare and mysterious Trafalgar Temeraire, the men. Many thanks. Over to you. Thank you. Thank you. Here we go. The Trafalgar Temeraire the men. During the call of the fighting Temeraire or the saucy Temeraire, HMS Temeraire was a 98 gun warship built for the Royal Navy at Chatham Dockyard in Kent and launched in September 1798. Her name came from a French ship the British captured in 1759. Her eyes give or take a few inches the same as HMS Victory. The Temeraire became famous for saving the victory at the Battle of Trafalgar. Turner's painting The Fighting Temeraire marks the end of her career. In 1838 after 40 years, the Temeraire was towed up the Thames to Rotherhithe, drawing large crowds, there to be broken up, recycled, and parts of her turned into relics. Chairs, tables, barometers, picture frames, boxes, etc. Just to mention a few. And according to the newspapers, she was even used to make a one leg for one of her old seamen. Temeraire is the Temeraire at Rotherhithe. The Royal Navy continued to use the name Temeraire for other ships and is now the name of a shore establishment at Portsmouth. The Fighting Temeraire has become so well known, she is on our £20 note, but what made her so famous? Can a ship become famous without her men? On the 1st of November 1803, Captain Elliot Harvey was given a commission. He was to become captain of one of the Royal Navy's largest vessels, His Majesty's ship Temeraire. Captain Harvey had a strong character, but if you read anything that sounds a bit negative, just remember, he was also a politician, the MP for Essex. Temeraire had been in ordinary at Plymouth since her last crew were paid off and left in September 1802. Having had repairs in a fresh copper bottom, she was now ready to return to sea. All Captain Harvey needed was about 700 men. He had a handful of warrant officers, Bowson, Carpenter and Persa, they came with the ship. But he needed a Lieutenant to help run the ship. His first Lieutenant, Thomas Fortissier Kennedy, a 31 year old from Soho in London, was already known to Harvey, having served with him on board the Triumph from 1800 to 1801. In 1802, while still on the Triumph, Kennedy was accused of insulting a senior officer and court marshaled. He was found guilty and discharged from the service. The Temeraire's new surgeon was Thomas Caird, a 49 year old from Montrose. He began his career in 1776, heading up as a Surgeon of May, the American Wars of Independence. Captain Harvey would also need able-bodied and ordinary seamen, competent seamen who knew how to operate the ship. One of the ordinary seamen, Joseph Pino's, came from a prison ship. He was 21 and born in Cadiz. Harvey would also need a chaplain to teach the young gentlemen and for Sunday services. He'd need midshipmen to train and become future officers. Boys, these came in three classes. Volunteer First Class, trainee midshipmen, aged about 11 to 13. Although Francis Harris the Gunner, had his son on board. In the books he's 13, but actually he was only eight years old. Second Class, with the older boys, aged about 14 to 20. Third Class, with younger boys, aged about 12 to 16. Some of these were officer's servants. One of the Third Class boys, William Braun, became a purser in 1812. He'd also need marines. Royal marines had four headquarters. One of these was in Plymouth. The Temeraire ended up with a mixture of Plymouth marines and Portsmouth marines. And Harvey would also receive 200 landsmen to train up and become future seamen. Two ships, the Andromac and Courageux, needed repairs at Plymouth. So these experienced men were spread around the fleet. Two of the Andromac men had been on the board the ship since 1793. The guard ship at Plymouth was the Salvador de Mundo. Most men who came to the Temeraire passed through the Salvador. All transport vessels, called tenders, often hired would collect men from other ports and bring them to the Salvador. Now in one book, The Famous Fighters of the Fleet by Edward Fraser, it mentions Captain Harvey manned his ship to a large extent with Liverpool men. But this is very misleading. The tenders, hundreds of men were being sent from the princess, a ship at Liverpool, and taken to Plymouth. These men came from all over. In the north of England, from Scotland, Wales, Ireland, John Abraham, he was born in the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa. Only a handful came from Liverpool. We do have some men from Liverpool on board the Temeraire. For example, the master, William Price, and the captain of Marines, William Visigny, but they didn't arrive by tender. The Marianne, the image of the Marianne, shows the room for impressed men. The Marianne was roughly the same size as the Bellina. The Bellina armed tender six guns carried 120 men at a time from Liverpool to Plymouth. The Bellina had a crew of 15 men and also carried Lieutenant Grieg and his gang. The batch that left Liverpool on the 1st of December took nine days to reach Plymouth, and out of 120 men they transported, the Temeraire received two. The second batch, 121 men, had a few more problems, which included storms, and their journey from Liverpool to Plymouth took 29 days. Of these, the Temeraire received 14. During this time, the tender, Rosa, making the same journey from Liverpool, was lost for six weeks. Other tenders were coming over from Ireland, and some tenders were receiving their men from other tenders. In the book Landsman Hay by Robert Hay, there is a good description of tenders arriving at Plymouth in 1803. Young Hay had travelled down from Scotland. After a passage of three weeks from Greenock, we arrived at Plymouth and were immediately sent on board the Resilu, a kind of examination ship appointed to receive and cleanse all new levies raised at this port. After being thoroughly washed in a number of systems fitted around the side of the vessel, we were then examined in a state of nudity before a committee of surgeons. Those who had any appearance of disease or uncleanliness were kept on board for cure or purification. The rest, which I happen to be one, were sent on board the Salvador de Mundo. The tenders carried a good mix of volunteers and press men. If you volunteered, you received a bounty. Landsman would receive one pound ten shillings, ordinary seamen two pound ten shillings, and if you were able bodied or quarter gunner, you could claim five pounds. This was the time of the hot press, and many merchant ships and privateers lost their precious seamen to sea. The Temeraire came out of harbour on the 26th of February 1804. The weather was often stormy, sails ripped, bits fell off, with over 200 new recruits on board, and modern phrase for this period would be a shakedown cruise. For the next 17 months, the Temeraire joined the Channel Fleet and blockaded the port of Brest in France. The Channel Fleet was under the command of Admiral William Cornwallis. In December 1803 it consisted of 18 sail of the line and 21 frigates, but by July 1804 it had grown to 35 sail of the line, plus the frigates. Ships would often return to Plymouth for fresh supplies, and then they rejoined the fleet. They would take with them live bullocks and fresh vegetables. What did they drink? Lots of beer. The log also mentions wine and brandy, but beer was their main beverage. In August 1805 the Temeraire was sent to join the Mediterranean Fleet, which was gathered near Cadiz. It would soon be under the command of Vice Admiral Ratio Nelson. Also gathered at Cadiz was the French and Spanish fleet. On the 20th of October 1805 Harvey mustered his men. This was usually done every 7 to 10 days to see exactly who was on board. Half the men on board the Temeraire were not Englishmen, but this was not unusual for the Royal Navy. The muster is not only a list of men, but also it lists their ages, where born, the details on who has been to hospital, on leave, led to other ships, run, died, and you can even see who was bonded to backhoe. Now the Battle of Trafalgar, 21st of October 1805. The Temeraire followed Nelson's flagship, HMS Victory, into battle. Running headlong into the enemy does have its dangers. By the time the victory in the Temeraire reached the French and Spanish fleet, they had sustained a huge amount of damage. The victory ran up against the French, we do tabla, and during a major fight, the French had gathered on their deck ready to board the victory. The Temeraire then came alongside the other side of the Redaute, we do tabla, and shot the men who had gathered on the deck. Soon after this, the French food joy, food joy, came up on the other side of the Temeraire. These four ships became locked together in a desperate fight. Master at arms, John Two Hig, the 35 year old from Cork, saved the ship when a French grenade nearly set fire to one of the Temeraire's powder magazines. If the magazine had exploded, this could have destroyed all four ships. The first ship to surrender was the Fugu, nearly all her officers were dead or wounded. She was boarded and taken by the first lieutenant, Thomas Kennedy, who was accompanied by James Arscott, the master's mate, and Robert Holgate, one of the midshipmen, 20 seamen and six marines. Captain Lucas of the Redaute tabla would only surrender when he thought his ship was in a sinking state. She was taken by the second lieutenant, John Wallace and his men. This included Royal Marine, second lieutenant Samuel J. Payne, who was wounded in his face and hands, and Mr William Pitt midshipman, a 20 year old from London. During the boarding, William Pitt was shot in the leg from another vessel. Although a surgeon from the redoubtable tried to save him, he died. Hundreds of men were killed or wounded on the two French ships. Some of the worst casualty rates for the British were on the victory in the Temeraire. At the close of battle, the Temeraire found herself with two French prizes or more accurately, two floating wrecks. All they needed to do was to get them somewhere safe and then they could claim a good amount of prize money. The Temeraire had to find two prize crews on for each prize. 43 men were sent to the Redaute tabla and 68 were sent to the Fougou. Temeraire was badly damaged and had to be taken in tow by the Sirius. The day after the battle, the storm began, which many of the prizes were lost. The redoubtable was taken in tow by the Swift Shore. At 10.15 on the 22nd of October, the Redaute tabla, redoubtable, sank. Because of the storm, they couldn't get all the men off in time, and many men, both French and British, went down with the ship. On the 23rd, the Fougou sank again with a loss of many men. 15 of the men had a bit of a journey around the fleet. The Temeraire had sent 68 to the Fougou. And she had sank in the storm, with 44 men being rescued and 24 were lost. 17 of these was picked up by the Orion. They kept two and sent 15 to their Spanish prize they were towing, the Bahama. The Bahama was nearly lost in the storm and the tow rope was cut away. The Entreprenant, the tiniest vessel with the British fleet, took 40 Englishmen out of a distressed hawk. When they gave them, they gave 15 to the Eurelius, which belonged to the Temeraire. And then they got them back to the Temeraire on the 29th of October. In a week after the battle, the Temeraire found herself a bit short-handed. 84 dead, 73 wounded and 76 elsewhere in the fleet. She did gain some men, 127 prisoners of war. The Temeraire finally reached Gibraltar on the 2nd of November. 25 of the worst casualties were sent to Gibraltar Hospital. After some repairs, she limped back to Portsmouth. The remainder of the sick and wounded were sent to Haslar Hospital. Most of the wounded became unserviceful and left the Navy. The Temeraire would now need a rebuild and the remaining men paid off and sent to another ship. Some men and their families received help from the charity Lloyd's Patriotic Fund, which depended much of your on-your-class and how badly damaged you were. Lieutenant James Mould was slightly wounded and received 50 pounds. George Smith, Private Royal Marine, was badly wounded and received 20 pounds. And Archibald Anderson, Landsman, slightly wounded, received 10 pounds. Although they lost their prizes, there was some prize money awarded. The Trafalgar Award List held at Portsmouth lists who received what? Captain Ali Abhavi, the first class, received 973 pounds. Thomas Price Master, second class, received 65 pounds, 11 shillings. And Archibald Anderson, Landsman, fifth class, received 1 pound, 17 shillings and 6 pounds. Captain Harby was promoted to Rear Admiral after the battle. He was also a Paul Bearer, Lord Nelson's funeral. The Temeraire had eight Lieutenant's at Trafalgar. The first Lieutenant, Thomas Fortescue Kennedy, was promoted after the battle to Commander. He took part in the Walsh Run expedition in 1809 and in 1813 became a captain. He finally ended his days at Jersey where he died in 1846. Two of the Lieutenant's were to be killed in boat accidents. Lieutenant William Ascherton Smith died in January 1806, trying to save another boat in distress during a storm. Lieutenant Benjamin Vallack died in 1811, ground in the bay of Avamond between Portugal and Spain when they misjudged the currents. Lieutenant Alexander Davidson had a bad accident in 1806 which forced him to retire from active duty. Also in 1806, Lieutenant James Mould and Lieutenant Thomas Coakley joined their old captain, Rear Admiral Elliot Harby on the Tonant. Lieutenant John Wallace in 1807 joined the Derwent and the fight against the slave trade of the west coast of Africa. HMS Anson received 136 Temeraire men. For these men a grim story was ahead of them. An aval action, a land action, an outbreak of sickness and then a shipwreck all within the next two years. By end of which about two thirds were dead or missing. A few Greenwich, a few Temeraire men became Greenwich pensioners in their old age. The Navy equivalent to the Chelsea pensioners. Some were out pensioners so stayed in their own homes and some ended the days living at Greenwich Hospital. Now in 1848 the Naval General Service Medal was issued. A medal to commemorate naval battles and actions. 57 survivors of the Temeraire received a medal. This medal belongs to Richard Libertine or Leviton who ended his days at Greenwich Hospital and died at the age of 83. Not many men had six bars of their medal. Now, Archibald Anderson Lansman. Occasionally you find a wealth of records connected to one of the Temeraire men. Archibald Anderson is a good example of this. He appears in over 30 different documents. Not only do you have him in the muster books and pay books but also in the allotment books. Sending part of his wage back to his mother Mary and Greenwich. He joined the Temeraire on the 3rd of December 1803, volunteer number 48 on the books and having a ride via the Salvador. After to Trauger he appears on the Haslar Hospital musters before he recovers and up to be sent back to sea. He joins the Gibraltar in 1806 and the ocean from 1812 to 14, still sending money back to his mother. In 1835 he was accepted into Greenwich Hospital. We spent the rest of his life. In about 1848 he received his Naval General Service Medal. He also appears in the 1851 and 61 census. Through the Greenwich Hospital documents we learn that Archibald was born in Greenwich in about 1778. He was single. His trade was a Cooper. He spent 11 years in the Royal Navy. Described as blown up at Trafalgar and he was four foot 11 and a half inches tall. He died and was buried at Greenwich on the 5th of January 1865 aged 87. One of the longest careers was that of the Persa, William Balenkel. He became a Persa in 1785 and spent 57 years in the Royal Navy. According to his will he must have had a very successful career because he left a lot of money to his nephews and nieces. Buried at Perth in Scotland he shares his brave with the George Balenkel, military surgeon and medical pioneer. Now Gojohn Hingston, Centives Cornwall must have had one of the shorter careers. He joined the Royal Marines as a second lieutenant at Plymouth on October 1804. March 1805 he joined the Temeraire and on the 21st of October 1805 killed at the Battle of Action aged 20. For the next 200 years in all the books, papers and articles relating to the casualties at Trafalgar he is listed as Kingston with a K instead of Hingston. Now spare a thought for these four men. They had joined the Temeraire on the 14th of October, dropped off by the Amphium on board for one week. William Draper, Samuel LaGradie and Richard Hughes were all killed in action and Abraham Ricketts drowned, lost on the Ridu tabla. In the master books there are no details of Abraham Ricketts, no age, place of birth, but one thing we have found out is he had been a prisoner of war. Now this is Simeon Edward Besigny, Captain of Marines. He was born in Liverpool in 1763. In the son of Victor and Catherine Besigny, Victor was a Swiss immigrant who had become a successful merchant. He joined the Marines in 1779 at the age of 16 as a second lieutenant. In 1780 he was in action. The flora captured the nymph and at the end of the action it is said that of the Marines Peter Besigny and his servant were neither killed nor wounded. He was mentioned in dispatches. Lieutenant Besigny very much distinguished himself and his sword for marks of his valor. He soon became quartermaster of the Portsmouth division. In 1785 he settled down with Mrs. Scallow, but it was short lived. Mrs. Scallow took Besigny to court and received £2 for damages. He became a first lieutenant in 1793 and a captain in 1797. While based at Portsmouth, Simeon Besigny spent a lot of time recruiting in the Romsey area. That Romsey enhanced here on the 3rd of February 1798 he married Anne de Manne. In 1799 put on half pay he optioned his entire collection of household goods and furniture. They soon settled down on the Isle of Wight where Besigny went into banking. Mrs. Day, Besigny and Day. Nor so started a family. They had four children but lost one when they were very young. Besigny also went into partnership with the brewery in Bath. He was then sent to Plymouth headquarters where in 1804 he had his apartment burgled. On the 26th of February 1805 he joined the Temer Air as captain of marines. During this time on board the Temer Air he was writing letters to his wife. These are now in New Zealand at the Auckland War Memorial Museum along with his portrait. Captain Besigny became wounded during the Battle of Trafalgar. It is said that he was one of the first casualties to be taken below. With the loss of his leg he finally died two days after the battle on the 23rd of October. His wife and three children, the youngest he never met, were helped by the Lloyds Patriotic Fund and awarded £25 a year. Now this is Christopher Halfpenny, Landsman. Born in Dublin in about 1780, arrived in Plymouth on a tender and kept on board the Salvador de Mundo for four days. He joined the Temer Air as a volunteer in January 1804. He's in the log books, flogged on the 1st of May 1805 one dozen for drunkardness. In January 1806 he joined HMS Audacious, which sailed through a hurricane that year, was nearly lost. In 1806 and 1811 he went from Landsman to Abel Bodied then to Quarter Gunner. In 1811 he joined Prince of Wales where he became Gunner's mate. He left this ship in 1814. In 1814 the Royal Navy had major cutbacks. Now in 1825 Christopher Halfpenny is on board the Wellesley, heading for Brazil. He joined the ship in 1804, a Portsmouth volunteer and was now captain of the afterguard. At Rio de Janeiro the Spartyot, Trafalgar veteran, was in a sinking state. The Admiral who was on board the Spartyot had the two ships swap their entire crew. Christopher Halfpenny was now on a sinking ship which needed taking back to Portsmouth. The ship's pumps were kept working day and night all the way home. The logbook for this voyage was very damp looking and the writing barely legible. When they reached Portsmouth Christopher Halfpenny soon married Maria Stone and settled down. Christopher acquired an out pension from Greenwich Hospital in 1830. In 1845 he received his Naval General Service Medal. He must have done quite well as he also left his Silver Watch to Portsmouth Museum but sadly it was stolen in 1933. Christopher and Maria produced a family and he finally died in 1874 at the age of 92. He was buried at Kingston Cemetery in Portsmouth. The Temeraire men who survived Trafalgar, there were to be other battles and actions. Shipwrecks, some became prisoners of war, other faces pirates, smugglers and slave traders. There were court marshals and civil courts, promotions and sickness. Some men, mainly the midshipmen, went on to join the Coast Guard. Some joined the Falmouth Packet Ships. Another joined the Post Office Packet Ships. While other men returned to their civilian trades. Which leaves us with 711 men. 711 men were on board the Temeraire at the Battle of Trafalgar. We are left with 711 very different stories. Thank you. Thank you very much. That's fascinating and of course, you know, a lovely reminder that, you know, naval history that we think we're all familiar with is really nothing without the men who were involved in the people who were possible. So we're very grateful for you for that. I may have missed 711 men. How many of them survived? What? The battle? Yeah. That means maths. Okay. Well, never mind. Never mind. But do you, it's been a labour of love tracing them all. It's not a finished project. I'm still working on it and it sort of brings up things every day. So. Right. Okay, well, yes, yes, this is something that could no doubt go on for a lifetime. Yes. I'm going to have to point out that Professor Hugh Murphy was greening and therefore feels, I think we can forgive him for pointing out that it's not, it's greening. I know, I know. Good company apparently and everybody does it. No. So, so that is just a, a good, a good nature, little reminder. Right. Jean Spence, I want to know about women. Were there any women on board or do you know of any other? Not that we know. But we don't know if there wasn't or was. Right. Right. Okay. Okay, that's fair enough. I might, I might just say to that if anybody wants to, because this is the sort of topic that might, you know, remind both stories of their of their own if you want to. I think I have the technological confidence now that I could invite people to raise their hands if they want to join and and be broadcast and to and to and to and to speak otherwise we'll carry on. There's another question in the, in the, in the question and answers. This is from Rohan, a former student at King's. Well, yes, and he wants to know how you, how you've gone about piecing together the story. Are you getting all of your information? How are you spending your days? I've been to the archives at London quite a lot. During the lockdown I joined Find My Pass and looked through all the old newspapers and find my past. It's been like an ancestry. It's Find My Pass. Okay, and that's been useful. That has, yes. You can access all the old newspapers and they have starting to put navel stuff on there. So there are a lot of the Greenwich pension details are on there. Yeah, and how much digging do you feel you're having to do? I get excited by the any tiny little information that I find. I put it in a book and then gradually it builds. Yeah, that's the nature of historical research, isn't it? You get excited about these things. T. Leslie wants to know how HMS Wellesley came to be sunk in 1940. Surely a sailing ship would not be used in the war? It was in the 10s and they had been using it as a training school type thing. So these two have the old sailing ships as like schools, didn't they? Like I'm trying to think the Conway was up near Liverpool and the Unicorn and a few of the others were used as training of boys. Right. Okay, very good. And this is a question from Jennifer Neubold then wants to know, as I suppose we all do, how you got interested in these men, the story of the Temeraire? Did you perhaps have an ancestor or something like that? Not on the Temeraire. I was interested in Trafalgar and we thought we'd start looking at the Temeraire as a start point. It was about 25, 30 years ago. You've been doing this for 25, 30 years. Getting on a bit. Yeah, I'm tempted to broaden out to others. Other cruiser, would that just open too much? Well, I started with a few of the men. Then a lot of them came off the Andromack, or Andromacky, whatever you call it. I thought I'd stick to those, but then as you go along, you pick up others. You think, oh, they were off the Temeraire. So you carry on and keep looking for, we end up with all of them. Okay, Davor, what was the path for joining Temeraire for non-British sailors? So were they volunteers or pressed? So how did the non-British? I think they saw it as a job because you get paid, you get your lodgings and your board. So it was probably a job. But a lot of the foreign sailors got let off after the Battle of Trafalgar. I mean, you see them in the books going discharge being a foreigner. That only appears after the battle. But there's a lot of Americans. A lot of Americans. They had about 19 or Americans. But I suppose if you didn't have your paperwork, they could argue you. They don't know whether you are American or not. Okay. An anonymous attendee mysteriously is asking this. Were there many of any runaways in the shakedown phase? And then as a separate question, how would one go about working out the manpower for fighting a ship of the line? What they mean is, did they, the warrant and commissioned officers get much choice over who they received from the levies to fill, say, a lack of foretock men, for example? I think they had a clear out from time to time. Because they gave a couple of batches away to other ships. And you do tend to wonder who they'd select to give to other ships. And we did have runners. We had about 20 runners over the time span. Usually if the ship went into harbour, you sometimes get one or two disappear. Okay. And Peter Hor has a question. Peter Hor to whom I've just written. Did you use the Ashford Trafalgar roll as an aid and did you find it accurate? There are a few mistakes. Not many, but just one or two. Okay. And also in the, some of the other lists, there is men missing. Right. So it's on all these, when you get to a large list, you always get one or two points that you have to question, but it's just because of the size of the project. Okay. Andrew Lambert tells us the Wellesley was sunk, presumably by a stuka. And I wonder if, if you, Andrew, want to elaborate or anybody else on their, on their, on their, on their questions, or if they have anything else, as I say, I can entertain raised hands, I think. Please. Let's see how we're getting on. A moment to gather their, their thoughts. Okay, so Ian Stafford has. Now, let me, do I know that. Just bear with me. While I look for Ian Stafford, would you entertain a question from Neil dance? And have you been able to ascertain what proportion of the men were literate. It's an interesting question. There are letters written. But whether they're, well, I've, I've been looking at the wills. There's a lot of Navy wills. And about half are found have the cross for signatures. And half actually give it a go at sign, at signing things. So, at a rough guess, there's quite a few literate ones. But actual numbers I'll have to, I'll have to sit and study them a bit longer. Okay. Now, I bragged about my newfound technological confidence. It's evaporating before my very eyes, but I think. Now, Ian Stafford had raised a hand. I can't see evidence of it anymore. Or any evidence of anybody else. But what I'm going to do is quite him to speak. Hello. Can you hear. Yes, yes, we can. Yes. I was just going to make a slightly wider question when the point about the Americans came up as to whether how many of them really were American, because if you recall, the little war of 1812, and the issue of press meant preceded that on the basis that many of them were actually British, because they had been born in an American colony, a British colony in America. And I, and I just wondered whether, you know, we should take that into account or is the speaker certain that they were truly American. The only thing I can go by is what's in the muster book. Because a lot of them will say American or from Virginia, or Newfoundland. Well, I know that's Canada, but that's, that's all I can go by is. And then also Boston gets mentioned, either Lincolnshire or America. So. It's just an interesting question. Well, interesting thought that, you know, and the other things like Canada, they're not truly foreign notes at this stage. That's the point. No, no. I've been reading some of the American newspapers at the time. I think I'm getting a bit shirty about the English pinching all their men. And it's quite interesting to see their point of view. Because we were, we were bombing up and down the coast of America, picking up people, so. Right, and Andrew Lambert is elaborating using a bomb on 24th of September 1940. She was then named Cornwall and served as a form school. So that's a little bit more. Okay. Michael Trump wants to know or knows that there are French emigres serving on some British ships at Trafalgar and wants to know if there were any on the Temerach. Yes. Yes. He ended up as a Greenwich pensioner. So we know quite a bit about him. Okay. So, yeah, there's about three, I think there was four, but one ran away. One. Okay, very good. What's Kevin Stoll, what color and sign did she fly at the battle, red, white or blue? All strips carry the same color in a, in a squadron. Okay. I have a question. Was it the men, not the flags? Okay. All right, then I'll, I'll have to look up that. I'll park that one. And then, and then the anonymous again. Here we are from a naval architecture perspective. So we're getting some clues about the identity of this person. So the advantage had Temeraire, the ship itself, over the radio table and the Fugue was going to be my guess at the pronunciation. A classic argument for the success of at Trafalgar was the direct tactics and superior seaman and gunnery. Were there more material advantages? So from a naval architectural point of view, any advantages of the Temeraire over its adversaries? And it was taller. So both the French ships were a lot smaller than the two British ships, which must have had an effect. Thank you. And Peter, I'm not surprised knows it was the white inside the Trafalgar. Thank you. Thank you. Jane Bowden Dancensor, thanks. Can you please say something about the repairs the Temeraire needed after Trafalgar, probably in Gibraltar and were some men put ashore for treatment in the Royal Naval Hospital at Gibraltar? Yes, about 25 went to Gibraltar Hospital, the worst of the casualties. Although, I mean, some of the, they put two lists together of badly wounded and slightly wounded, but you do get deaths on both lists. So I don't know how the categories are different lists, but yeah, about 25 got sent to Gibraltar. The rest got sent back to Asala out near Portsmouth. Okay. Thank you. Helen Jackson, was it difficult to identify how many men were pressed rather than volunteers? That's one thing I'm doing at the moment. What's that? There's more to the question. Sorry, my fault. If the member offered the volunteers bounty after being pressed, do they show up on their register as volunteers? It's the follow up question. So what do we know about pressed versus volunteer? There is, there is on the, on the musters, usually at least whether they're volunteer or pressed. So there's a way of tracing who was pressed and who was and who was not. Who was off. There's also a question, but it's one of the ones I'm not familiar with yet, which I'm working on at the moment. So I think get it done in time. Okay. Well, no. Can do it. I can't do everything especially. Of times, subject, like, like this. Okay. Is there anybody else who would like to speak? Because I think we've, we've mastered. That. Because. Oh, you might not have seen Emma, but Valerie Wilson-Trauer has reminded us the larger shape should have been faster. Otherwise, I'll look for raised hands or questions. I think you can all agree that this has been very interesting, very fascinating talk, very fascinating insight into the lives of the people behind the stories with which we're familiar. So it's with great thanks and with a promise of a proper class of wine. Next time you're down in London, maybe a bite to eat with some of the people who are there on my list of attendees on the right, but not sadly here in person. So thank you very much, Emma and I think, and yes, the Keith Harcourt and others are sending in their thanks as well. Thank you very much for attending and in such numbers. I will hope to see you all next on the 22nd of April when we have Roger Dentz talking about ships. I don't have it in front of me, but the rest of Japanese war, that promise is also to be a good one. Thank you very much, Emma, and goodbye to everyone. Bye.