 Welcome back to the breakfast here on PLOS TV Africa next conversation this morning is going to be on June 12 And of course are celebrating Nigeria's democracy day This morning. We're going to be speaking with Delay Farotimi Of course sir to share his thoughts on all as many angles as possible concerned in the celebration and the planned protest Good morning, Mr. Farotimi Good morning. Good morning. See Zai Good to see you having me Welcome. So let's get straight into it. There's so many angles. I hope that we can cover all of them in the time that we have Nigeria celebrates tomorrow There is of course those who say there is absolutely nothing to celebrate. We are not, you know fully living in a democratic Nation, and then there's those who of course would lean on to the Mko-Abyola perspective and say at least You know one thing was done, you know that celebrates Mko-Abyola tomorrow So let's get your thoughts on celebrating tomorrow. Do you think that we will be celebrated and should be? There was a phrase that popped out when you asked the question Nigeria celebrates tomorrow Nah Nigeria is not celebrating tomorrow We might mark the day for its Symbolism We should mark the day and honor it too Because of the sacrifices of those who died Even though the ideals and ideas of that day has never found closure in the Nigerian states So yeah, we should honor the memories of All those people who are killed on the Korogdu Road In the run-up to Abacha's imagines The exercise of the sovereign will of the Nigerian people on June 12 1993 A day that has never been repeated in the history of Nigeria Yeah, there is every reason why we should honor the day, but you see What these Predators ruling us right now are celebrating Is not what those people died in the lead-up to all we're calling a democracy today This wasn't what it died for They didn't die to install governors who are functionally MMS They didn't die so that We would inherit a constitution written by the same man who killed them Because that's what it is where was up to salami when people are dying in 1993 94 It was in his office enjoying the largesse of office and Eventually succeeded to power the same edge. You know me that I don't know his life for whom it worked Midwife this one they are calling a democracy now is a democracy where an Attorney general wake up one morning and say he's burning this if president pick a petty fight over it Sweets that shouldn't have been and then everybody shoots Fall in line and is a democracy Is a democracy where they are reviewing a fraud? We talk They are telling us that what we say do not matter what they agree amongst themselves But the key thing is this we have every reason because we must not forget We lack institutional memories as a people. So it is important that the symbolism of the day He's not lost on those Who are life today and witnessing the return to fascism? However, you know, you did ask a second question and that is as it relates to tomorrow's planned protests. Yes You see all my life I Have never done tokens if I I don't protest for me I reactions Because you have what are you who are you protesting to actually you're talking to a man Who has demonstrated a more dross capacity for? Look the Nigerian states the way it is structured You go out on the street the Nigerian police man sees you as fear game So I have never seen the I've never called anyone out to any protest. Let me be clear about this You do not dictate to the oppressed. I wish you respond to the oppression and on account of that I've always been careful not to be seen as Speaking against the legitimate right of any man to protest injustice And it is in that vein that I will say to those who wish to protest tomorrow They should go right ahead is their democratic right and if the Nigerian state has Transmuted into a fascist dictatorship, which I believe it's what it is Then you can go ahead again tomorrow and unveil itself as it has consistently done Every time people have attention to a Sunday democratic right, but I won't be out there tomorrow Okay, I'll be out there as far as I'm sorry Mr. Faratimi, I need to ask you this question because you said tomorrow is not what celebrating, you know I've been speaking to a couple of people regarding the June 12th celebration and you know asking some student union leaders Who led the movement against the military rule and you know Supporting MQ Abiola back in 1993 and I asked the question really the struggle, you know Against military rule the struggle for their in statement of MQ Abiola Was it all worth worth it and he eventually ended up saying it was you know Because even though democracy is not like we want it to be you know military rule is no more But where do you come in regarding that question? Do you think all that struggle all that activism was worth it? Oh Yes, oh, yes, he wants what it I was student union president in last year I believe I was 94 95 And this is what I'll say to you At least Bwari has to pretend that we are in a democracy He has to pretend whether he likes it or not the and it's not just Bwari Our governors have to pretend we're in a democracy the ones who rule here in Lagos have to pretend We are in a democracy the ones who rule everywhere in Nigeria. It's not just Bwari We fall into the consistent error of thinking that is one man. It's not a man. It's a system They all have to pretend we are in a democracy and that is because of the sacrifices made By those who stood up those who died those who are in our mad grief Just like people ended up in our mad graves after the 20th of October Several people were in our mad grief and they still had to do the unacknowledged The system did a good job of why to wash in the history Somebody like a person who came in who studiously refused to acknowledge the sacrifice of all these people. So yes, the Sacrifices are what that's why I can be speaking knowing that even if they must carry me They would have to find some charges before they can carry me That's why I can be speaking knowing that if they kill me they would have to explain to people what happened People die every day in Lagos. It's not a new but the fact is that those sacrifices Oh, yes, they are what it and that is why I said these things are nuanced We must separate the symbolism of the day from the hollow back was nonsense That these feudal lords are going to be celebrating tomorrow. Okay. They are two different things So there's another simple. There's another symbolism. I want us to break down here You've talked about how you would not, you know deny a man his right to express his feelings, you know through protest But I need to ask tomorrow being democracy day and the day Mac to celebrate MQ a biola, do you think or what kind of protest achieve? Every time a man has sex is right What he is doing is that he is a family That it belongs to him In this state where we live The Nigerian state as already I don't know how we go about the business of calling what we are him a democracy So when you still find people, let me be sincere Did I make a call you will not be voice you will not be for a protest It will be for a national strike. Let's shut it all down and then sit down and talk. I don't do symbols I don't do reactions. It will be a national strike and we would all know exactly why We're sitting in our homes There has to be a clear. It can be that Lagos is shut down and cardinal is moving the people in cardinal Are they enjoying life? The people in Canada is there are their life easy The fact of the matter is that we have to get to the point Where it is a national thing. It is not just the people complaining in emo It's not just the people complaining. It's not just the people in Kankara complaining It's not the people in Zanfara complaining. It's not the people in Ogunilat because the problems are General it is open to every Nigerian. There is sufficient suffering. The only thing that has been democratized in Nigeria is suffering Every Nigerian except the ruling class. Even if you are rich, you are suffering in this country Even no matter how rich you are, you are suffering. The people in Kankara, they are not you vast The people in the government are you vast But how do you think the two correlates is the failure of the state? And it is failing because it has not delivered on his promises If the state is firmly established and equity and justice is gone on to all, then some of these problems will disappear Those people are responding the only way they know how. I have said this several times The Nigerian revolution was that in the northern part of Nigeria, but when you look closely you find that it's already started But it started wrongly. It's become religious. People are re-expanding to the extremities of their sufferings It's become religious. You see young Nigerians Crossing the Sahara Crossing mediterranean and people think the revolution as well. They are voting with their feet. They are running away Look Every Democracy is demonstrated You see clearly in the walkings of the state, in his relationship with his people, whether that state is democratic or tyrannical I have always believed that they didn't start with Wari. Nigeria runs or is a fascist state, constitutional fascism Any state where the will of the people does not rule is a fascist state So are you saying are you Mr. Farah to me? Are you saying you disagree with people that say that Nigeria is far better on the president Buhari's administration in terms of democracy Excuse me Some people think that he has lots of supporters who think he's done very well for the country They think he has done very well for the country They are much Wow I'm sorry Exactly They think he has done very well Maybe you should go and ask the people of Kankara exactly what they think. Ask that Edmaster In Nigeria state asking what he thinks of Wari's administration Maybe you should travel down to Igogo And ask them go to the markets Ask them what they think of the Wari administration Ask anyone go across the country. Now these things are matters of his pocketbook economy. Let me put it that way I ate when we make it about Wari. It comes out partisan It's not Wari. It is the Nigerian experience. But when you not particularize it to Wari I am 53 years old I was old enough to remember I'm old enough to remember Wari at his first coming And I'm old. I am the head of a home I once ran a law office people are I'm responsible to people. I know how much easier my life Has been in the last six years. He's not a functional Wari as a person But he has worse in the past situation That's what I was about to get into now You know, there's people and I just quickly also throw this in there's people who have pointed out the incident in France where Emmanuel Macron was was assaulted Um, you know and compared that with what happened in Zaria In 2015 with the Shiites, you know, and of course many other cases in Nigeria where there have been extra judicial killings and just, you know, complete abuse of power But I want you to speak on that and then second also Was there ever a time since 1999 that it felt like Nigeria truly had an experience of democracy Where people truly wear the ones in charge of government the citizens the electorate Was there ever a time compared to where we are today? You've not been listening brother If you've not been listening, if you've been listening You get this clear It didn't start in 1999 It's a lifelong predilection. I'm 53 years old. I was born during the war I grew up during the military rule And I saw the front Both of 1979 by which I was in secondary school I was in secondary school And I saw the perfection of that same fraud in 1999 I voted in 1993 I know as a fact That the will of the Nigerian people has never once mattered in my lifetime the first time we tried it was 93 Our will has never mattered in my lifetime. That is one Now when you compare chalk and cheese And you're talking about the macronite slap Let me point that phrase A citizen Might be stupid enough break the law to slap Is elected leader that's a citizen And then you'll be prosecuted under the law Just like he might have slapped you or me or any other person There is no aggravation to his charges except there will be other circumstances or known to us He will be charged for having slapped a citizen If number one let's be clear There is no way in hell pardon my friends That a Nigerian is going to have that level of access To a Nigerian head of state Because he is not a citizen in the first place the head of state is not going to come anywhere near him to vent his anger You have you want to try the number of voodoo voodoo and dss and everything that is around the place to ensure that there is no such contact Between you a mere mortal And a commissioner. Oh, no, sorry a president in Nigeria. It's not gonna happen It's not gonna happen. I once attended the funeral of a friend's mom whose brother was then a minister So we're in a kitty. I saw jack barons. They were not escorting the head of state They were escorting governors and ministers jack barons. That was what the dss or carry How do you go anywhere near such a person to even administer a slap that happens where citizens have and leaders Lead in a country where all you have are the rulers and the rules and there is a vast gulf Between them is never going to happen and so forget it number one. We are not citizens and they are not leaders So it's chalk and cheese our situations are completely different. You can't compare it to Okay, so when we look at the person of mk R. Biola, he is revered across Nigeria and beyond He's a man that would forever be spoken of in a positive light for all the Philanthropic Movements he did he just everything he symbolized when he comes to nationality How he unified the north the south and every other part of nigeria across religious lines across ethnic lines And how nigerians voted for him, you know in mass numbers, you know on that day june 12 of 1993 Many years later. It seems that what the kind of leadership and politics have been having, you know comes nowhere close So what do you think that the leaders of nigeria now and the leaders of tomorrow can learn from the person mk There's several lessons embedded in the lives and times of mk and Pardon me. I'm going to take a little time on question that because he raises several disturbing issues for me Moshi would cash him out who have or land view. I think all our layer biola came from very poor stock But there was a system as young as nigeria was I think at that time it was even mostly colonial nigeria There was a system in place that allowed upward mobility If you have sufficient brain power, so you could move and you moved across the class lines Became rich Never forgot his roots because if you ever took time to listen to him and I did And I read up on him. You hear him consistently talking about his very highly disadvantaged background Embedded in it. You would also hear the story of how he moved by Deans of his hard work and his mental equity Now demands life shows that a functional society Can shift people across lines Even though it wasn't exactly one created by the people based on their will it was a colonial birth it was the growth During the up there during the western region days when there were scholarship and everything. I don't come from very rich stock myself Well, fortunately. I'm not anywhere as rich as Papa May God rest his soul So I can understand and relate to the Story I wish I was anywhere near as rich. I would love to help people as well, but you see that also shows you The poverty of private wealth Everything Chivenkyo habiola did in his lifetime. He did by share the interest of his own capacities He did his best He even lived his life as an example, especially when it came to standing by the mandate of june 12 But what has happened? All of that By one man the man died and insist It shows you The importance of building a system A human system that understands that there would always be the weak in need of protection by the strong And the strongest protector that endures beyond all of our lives is the state So if we have a state that is equitable The ideals that the man lived for would be the ideals by which we would all be governed and led But that is hardly the case today Those who are four years today got into government today their pilonias the flying jets up and down the place Abhiola had his jets before he went into politics What were these ones doing before they ever became anything? So how can they construct a state that is based on ensuring that the mass of the people Are lifted out of poverty and allowed the capacity to move across the class lines We've created a fielder state in place of a egalitarian state And that wasn't what the man's life was about I hope I answered you. Yeah, let's talk about you know hopes that we can still fix this Um, you know, let's talk about the hopes that we can still fix what we have as our democracy. There is Been mention of a constitutional review and some of all of that Where where would you where would you suggest that you know should be our first points of contact if we still want to salvage our situation Let me say this to you It is critical that Nigerians begin to speak to themselves across the several advice That our rulers and even we are stupidly created for ourselves There is hope We're blessed people. I had occasion to address the same issue couple of days ago We're blessed people Nigeria. We're seriously blessed The tragedy is that we have been horribly misled We've been led by people who's so preoccupation would appear to be their appetites what to eat What to drink Who to sleep with They are not anchored to higher ideals and goals. So they've They've perverted the Nigerian people, but there is hope That hope only comes from us talking to ourselves Identifying a common purpose behind which we would all have to fall behind We're in dire times We're in dire times We have two options before us One is hopeless. The other is hopeful Speak to ourselves find our unity even in our diversities and then Create a new Nigeria for ourselves not that fraud that they are lying to themselves that they are calling the review Who's Interestful that serve their own interest The same system will continue to perpetuate itself The poor will continue to get poorer. The rich will continue to get richer. You know what else? They'll continue to take away more and more of our rights Well, they'll go to Pyongyang If we follow this road that we are on Yeah, but Mr. Paro to me if if the persons that you've described the characters you've described the system And those people who run that system if they don't let go of that system Do you think Nigerians will be able to free themselves from you know The situation that we've described And not necessarily in seeking secession or violence Let me let me address that issue once again. I've tried my best to deal with this matter Secession is a distraction The powers that be the beneficiaries of this current system Enjoy it when we speak secession and act secession because it then gives them the occasion to legitimize Their vener brutality. They'll kill with impunity They will turn the force of the state the same force of the state that has been absent in checking the bandits The terrorists going up and down the place Stigmatizing the entire full animation Those same forces that have not that has been restrained against those ones will be unleashed I have never heard of a place where civilians are being bombed only in Nigeria and against what people were asking To go because we push them to extremes. Let me be clear Secession is a distraction But I say this with all emphasis and I say it knowing that by the grace of God Yeah, I'm not one of the rababa bache bebe bebe that will now be praying when this you are We will hurt when we will hurt But we will hurt clearly understanding that it's not about secession. Nigerians have to find common cause The suffering is democratized. There is no part of Nigeria that is working Why should it then be so difficult for all of us to see clearly that we are commonly afflicted And we should then look for common solutions. So far so far to me last question from me What will that common solution be and when will it be implemented? The revolution will not be televised. It doesn't happen But here is what I can tell you Nigerians are speaking to themselves across channels When the time comes We would hope present a joint demand And we'll put it on the table for all Nigerians to understand clearly no violence. Who are we going to be fighting? If we start anything it will be ourselves Nobody will even leave their house By the time even you by the time you understand the issues We're talking about our generations. Are we all going to become refugees? Exactly what I needed to I needed to emphasize that Mr. Farad to me that Your call for evolution is non-violent and that we're preaching peace here Violent again. I don't own a catapult And you see when people talk about evolution, I think it's necessary that I cleared this up There's always been this and it's the military The Bwari Babangida of passenger class they gave the word revolution a bad name What is revolution? It comes from the Greek word revolve. What does he mean? He means to turn around Turn around we're already heading towards the cliff A revolution means turn around anything that takes us away from that cliff edge. It's a revolution And what is the revolution we are proposing? A complete change to our governance system We have presented the we presented a constitution a draft constitution to the review committees that they set up We know they does bring it immediately But it was never meant for them. It's meant for the Nigerian people We would take it to the Nigerian people over the coming days weeks and months And when people have sufficiently understood What we're asking of them we we put it to the test There will be a national strike call. It's not a I don't own a catapult. I'm not looking for anybody to step onto any street NLC has lost the capacity to call strikes And what is the population of zero servant? We will call a national strike people who stay in their homes. This will not be safe Well, no body is coming out to any street to come and to any stone. Who are we going to be fighting? Is the policeman enjoying his life as soldiers enjoying their lives? Who is enjoying Nigeria? If you're enjoying Nigeria, you can come out and join them. But those of us who are not enjoying Nigeria, you see If we say This is okay. You're calling strike on what we will take our time. We educate our people and let me say something What they will do tomorrow To those peaceful protesters It will validate what we are saying because every avenue for peaceful protest Expression of democratic rights Have been shot down by this system. So is either we are going to hold our hand and accept slavery Or we are going to find some innovative way of engaging this system to let this system understand clearly that it is not Not only is it not working for us. It is constraining our children's future so Everybody would have to decide whether they are happy with Where we are living or whether they seek a change if we seek a change and we don't want guns We don't want violence then we must be able to place alternative ideas on the table that the people might Buy into okay, let's put our ideas on the table and allow the Nigeria the opportunity to decide Whether it makes sense or not. Okay So Thank you. Glad to know that the revolution you're calling for is a turnaround in government And of course an exchange of ideas. Thank you very much. Mr. Dilley for to me for joining us for the breakfast this morning Thanks for joining us I'm just gonna say Happy democracy day. Yes. Happy democracy day. I'm June 12th tomorrow. Also my mom's birthday. Shout out to her Thank you Where was she during the election in 93 I would have to vote. I would have to ask my birthday. I would have to ask We need to go. Thanks a lot for joining us all through the week. It's been a very very interesting one With different issues brought to you to the you know front burner And we hope that you enjoyed the conversations that we found all through this week We'll be back here on Monday morning If you missed out on any of the conversations, you know what to do It's on our social media accounts at plus tv africa on facebook and instagram same with our youtube channel I am also gay or born and I am a netta philips. Have a great weekend. Stay peaceful. Stay safe and happy democracy day