 We have about 15 minutes for for discussion. I have some specific questions for you, but I'm gonna open up I'm gonna ask you one question each and then I'm just gonna open up the room I think of course all questions are welcome. Please keep them brief But I think this this probably also generates Generalized ideas general ideas and you are very welcome to share reflections But if you're if you're asking for for to speak and it's not a question be very very brief Okay, so we can all talk all right Yes, I'll just My immediate question is where does the funding come from is this it did it start out as an arts project or and if it doesn't How do your funders? How do they feel about this amazing methodology that you have where you take out time to just like explore? So the moment where we've just graduated a month ago and it was a self-funded project by the four of us It was for our degree We're looking to pursue this notion of combining Sensation and shaping easing technology, but we're not currently funded by anybody Okay, in that case I should ask since the world is watching are you interested in being funded by someone or do you want to like Keep it keep your freedom No, I think we'd be very Excited to be funded by someone and Continuing to work as the four of us. Yes, fantastic. Can you step over here so I can see you both? Yes Martin to you my question is also specific, but rather larger So I'm just gonna ask for a very brief question answer because I think you always get this question Yeah, so Mimoto and face recognition software Can we just like what's up with that? Is that the democratization of a survival surveillance culture that has already been established at least we can survey Each other back and the authorities as well or is this a total lack of privacy being unleashed on the world? Yes, so so Steve Mann has Coined the expression Sue valence, which is the idea that in an eye any surveillance society the individuals should have the ability and the right to Preserve their own version of every situation where they take part so because Someone in the position of power of having a surveillance device Can use lies that that power to their own means if you live in a school where? Hopefully not many schools in Sweden do but some in the US where they have surveillance cameras the The leadership of that school can if they choose Probably very easily incriminate you by showing specific parts of their video surveillance video feeds and In that case you really should be able to is Steve man's idea and the idea bands who veils to keep your own version of What what do you experience I? Think in some way the same applies to your technology is obviously because it's just a question of choice Whether they will record or not. How do you guys approach approach the issue of privacy in this in this context? Yeah, I think Martin has an interesting point, you know, it would be it's a scary world if someone could manipulate CCTV footage and twist what actually happened Maybe that's a dark side of what we're saying if you're Twisting the what you're actually seeing But I think I mean yeah, it's something to consider but one was we were doing project We were sort of looking at it just as a novelty and enhancing your senses, so Yeah, it raises lots of questions sure does it raise questions with the audience who would like to start or Reflections are welcome too. I have a whole paper full questions. It's not gonna be quiet over there Hi, my name is Frederick and from a company called resultify what about the legality of the camera I mean, can I wear a camera in any situation? I want to can I film the police when they stop me? Can I wear it? to my son school Yeah, there are any rules on that or it's from country to country. Yes I just like to fully put in a practical example. I think all of us have walked through security checks and border checks They always have signs that say no cameras. Yeah, how do you deal with? So there are there are actually quite quite good rules and and you have to look at both the ethical side and the legal side and And in order to get the full picture. So As with any camera you cannot wear my moto where There are signs posted the states that Photograph is this loud and in at least in Sweden It's the owner of the property that decides if you can take take photos or not And what they can do if you if you do take photos anyway is that they can ask you to leave the property They cannot take your camera or and they they they Cannot force you to raise the photos in any way and in Sweden in Sweden Yeah, and and the same law applies to to the United States, but other laws are in place in other countries, but In any case you need to to look at the both sides of of the legality and the ethical's that if if Someone asks me to to take out the camera because they don't want their photo taken of course I will Remove the camera and we actually made it so that you have to remove the camera in order to stop taking photos Because if there was an on-off button then other people when it was switched off would still feel uncomfortable So we we designed the camera to care as much about the surroundings as as to use herself But if if someone asks me to not take a photo of them because they're stealing my bike Then of course, I'm not going to then it's my right to take a photo of them because they are committing a crime To which I'm a victim so and and those are the like the clear cases that and then there's gray zones and there is a new camera law that in some respects have have Have Are complex but in some respects are really is really good. So it's not it's now a criminal offense in Sweden to take Take photos that where the intent is to to Use the photos It's it's the way the intent is to use them in a crank on the Yeah to harass a person or in a situation where it's in a in a public restroom or So so but then if you use if you wear a memoto, of course the intent is never to capture those kinds of things There's somebody who lives in the public eye I don't necessarily want you selling pictures of me or indeed some are like real celebrities who actually like who people would care About you know to the media you didn't mean to do that. You just have them on your phone Why aren't you gonna send them to the tabloid? Yeah, so so if you wear a camera or take a photo with a mobile camera in in a public toilet For example, that is your you are now is by swedish law committing a criminal offense and that is how it should be you shouldn't be allowed to do that and Then there's problems with For example journalists where they need to be able to to be able to perform their profession without Facing prosecution so it's not it's it's Issue with different sides to this I mean, I'm I'm hearing your responses, but I am really worried I mean a sort of an Listening device like that one if it was available like yours if it was available in in let's say as as As an add-on to my phone or something like that And then you put that in a high school environment where people are forced to be in the same room Or a prison environment or any kind of any kind of thing where where people are survey are Doing surveillance on each other or where there's a power imbalance of any kind It does get problematic and what it seems to be suggests to me that we're going to again a Technological change is gonna happen first and then the whole cultural shift and the ethical discussion is going to happen after And and you wouldn't be the first who who've caused these kind of situations that happens with every machine we invent I think but but it's still I I still Think we are like maybe a decade behind on the debate in the general public is Over there's a question over in the back and then with the one over here. We should have two of these people and Or mics Hey Martin, my name is Matt You mentioned you're storing 2000 photos a day. I was just wondering Sorry if you mentioned this but is that on the user to store locally? Are you storing it? On your servers, and then what kind of storage challenges have you come across? Storing that many photos Yeah, so you can choose yourself We want to if you want to keep the photos locally on your computer or if you want to upload them to the app and and The the major challenge is to make an intelligent choice in in the compression level of each photo so that we can retain a Reasonable storage quantity in in terms of gigabytes and because just storing the raw data quickly escalates into Several like terabytes of data per user per year So one hour with the core of our business and engineering is to find ways to compress that data without you losing any Real information Very good gentlemen in the middle here In the back and then we have a lady in the front and then everybody keep your questions and responses brief Yes, I'm Fredrik from Tieto. I have a question to you Martin. It's about Open source community. Is that a threat to you or is that an opportunity to you to open up? For instance, the web Server for new apps on things that you haven't thought of but other smart people out there thinks of That is very much an opportunity for us It's it's so important for us to capture all the possibilities involved with Looking and learning from your life logging photos So we are opening up an API and allows you to build apps on top of the platform Something I should mention is that the photos that you take with the memoto camera are never public by default It's a very strong piece of principle that we have that it's you create a private photo journal And you will have to allow Third-party software or our own specific access before anyone can see the photos or share them Voluntarily, yes, ma'am. Hi, my name is maiza and early on I think I read on the memoto fan page a user who was expressing that her husband had short memory loss And how this could be really helpful for him I think sometimes we don't predict the use of a product that he could end up serving another purposes And for you as well like how do you both can deal with this? Extra functionality that comes which is very positive in your case with the audio for death and Memoto to do with the maybe brain limitations and memory Limitations then we're going to go here and then we're going to go there. Yes. Yeah, I agree I think it's very interesting how people Take on products and use them in their own way We're very much at sort of first stage prototype at the moment So for us are very interesting to actually give our devices to some users and get that kind of feedback, but I think There are other things that I would like to test them for myself. So with the hearing device. Maybe it could be an Alternative to medication perhaps for children with ADHD helping them concentrate that kind of thing so For us that that's all about creating a product that is as simple as possible so that design is the self shouldn't Suggest any specific use case we create the first version of the product is very very general and minimal and then perhaps we can Create new versions with more specific use cases Hi, my name is Fabian Hemad. I'm from Berlin and my question is what do you from your experience with a memoto camera? What are the psychological behavioral side effects of being filmed? Yeah, so so Thanks to the subtle design of the camera What happens is that people See the sees the camera and If they know you they ask about it if they don't know you they sort of glance at it and then say nothing So that's that's what happens For good or or for bad People it's a it's a great Conversation starter people can't help to ask about it if it's a social setting But you very very quickly yourself and other people forget that it is there also for good and for bad and so you the bad is that you You walk into the bathroom and and you and you forget that you have a camera on and Hopefully it's just yourself otherwise You need you need to Make sure that you don't share those photos to To the world. I also see that this could be integrated with Cindy Gallop's website pretty pretty well over there Okay, my name is Kalle Kostam. I think I would love to have this device for logging for myself as he's mentioned for keeping it private what I think about is is The risk with the NSA and for a and all that stuff How do I How can I be sure that that my pictures stay my pictures? Yes, so so With memoro your photos are your photos and as if Governmental government or a court order asked for your photos. We will notify you but the only way to be really sure is to to Not identify You can be anonymous with with the motors my motor service, but I Think with with the turn of a recent turn events where It's apparent that at least the US government, but it's also the Swedish listens into any Stream of data that they would like to and cannot also in the US issue gag orders on on the companies Where to do so it is very problematic and it's something that we really need to Take seriously when when shaping the strategy of our company Perhaps we should should be moving away from cloud storage to our own servers So we can we need to be very careful about where we place those services on and what kind of encryption we enforce Thank you We're running out of time. There are at least two more questions in the audience So I'm gonna ask you guys to drag your feet on the way out of the room So people have an opportunity to catch you before we thank the speakers. I'm just gonna give you some practical information Some things are starting now at 6 p.m. The science slam from Which is sort of yeah, it's like a poetry slam except scientists are like competing in presenting awesome science presentations which will be Fascinating and entertaining there are people from London Techniska Högskola There that's gonna be in the snowing room starting at 6 Suds van Skand the newspaper is hosting interviews in English of course on the stage in the mingling area I would like to remind you don't forget to eat food is on sale at the venue You don't need to leave for anything. You can probably sleep right here if you want to And there are some other things starting at 7 but those are the ones that you need to think about right now now Thank you for your attention and your intelligent questions Millie Clive Smith and Martin Chelsea Thank you so much