 Welcome back to the Breakfast and Plus TV Africa. According to the Securities and Exchange Commission Sec, 3 million Nigerians lost 18 billion nair to Ponzi scheme operators as other illegal investment schemes have cost Nigerians their assets and life savings. Also, the Central Bank of Nigeria revealed that between 2016 and 2017, 12 billion nair was lost by investors. Meanwhile, the Nigerian Deposit Insurance Corporation and DIC has advised Nigerians to be aware of Ponzi scheme operating under the guise of financial institution as such financial institutions were fraudulent. According to the cooperation, there have been intensified awareness campaigns across the nation, warning the people against camels operating in the guise of Ponzi scheme. There are a lot of Ponzi schemes across the country, especially in local places. This is what the cooperation is quoted to say, and people in these places may not be aware of the scheme because they entice people with high interest rate. They trick people into putting money in their fraudulent financial institutions and the people are not aware that they are illegal. And that's why the NDIC is passing the message to everyone on the need to look out for financial institutions that have corporation certification to operate. We have a financial expert joining the conversation this morning, Balaam Oluji Day. He's an Executive Director of DMA Advisory and Management Services, limited in Liga's right here. Thank you for joining us, Balaam. Yeah, thanks for having me. Well, so I'd like to share your thoughts on this. We know that with all of the, you know, warning and advice that's been put out by different stakeholders, regulators, Niger and Nigerians seem to be falling, you know, every other day, you know, you have the rate of Ponzi scheme on the high. And every other time, it feels like nobody's listening. Do you think that, you know, the stakeholders are doing enough? Well, the stakeholders can do a bit more. Maybe try to do 3,000 years through the challenge that the target audience needs to. So, if I want to pass the message, I know that there are people listening to their leaders. I want to be able to read their leaders. There are people who are listening to their tradition and leaders. I want to pass the message to them to their traditional leaders. Well, how many Nigerians listen to NDIC when NDIC speaks to them? And I think they do this connection. Okay, all right. That's a very interesting question you've asked. How many Nigerians listen to NDIC when NDIC speaks to them? Well, I mean, as a media person, you know, I've had opportunity to hold several conversations, several about these guys who come out to say, give us your money. I mean, on radio, I had MMM. When they started, they came and they said, you give us your money, you're going to get XYZ percent, which sounded too good to be true. Went on the Internet, saw some history, asked them some questions, they denied everything and said it was not the same MMM that was in Russia. I said, oh, but you see, it's on the Internet. The people here have been put in prison in Russia. What's going on here? And they said it wasn't the same. The information was there, the history was there, but people still put money in MMM. What's going on? Why? Why do people ignore these warning signs and still put money in things like that? You actually put a few people on the check online. We get a lot of time where you act. Listen to the information on that. As a matter of fact, there are some early schemes that by the time they have already started going down and people were reporting online, there were still new people getting onto the next camp. So it means that those information are not getting to drive to Canada. We need to be able to get information through the correct channel to the target audience. Otherwise, these guys will continue to exploit the great hand of the people. If it's too good to be true, it is probably not true. But let's also look at another development by the Securities and Exchange Commission with the fact that they recently developed a framework to provide some level of regulation for the digital space and all of that. Do you think that this is making any headway? Is it making any effort in carving the activities of these Ponzi operators or Ponzi scheme or financial institutions that are not legal? It will affect some of them and I can say a few of them. Most of the investments that are being made with Ponzi teams are not even being done via anything that has to do with the Internet. They are being done through trusted people. My friend had come to me. He said I have the project in this and I go to this. So I am going to invest based on what my friend said, based on what my colleague said, based on what my friend or my boss or other people that I am using to base on what he said, not just based on what is the digital space. Why do people who consume a lot of digital and for things like this so if they are not in my company won't check how big the information on what is going on? Seven for that prospective consumers or Ponzi scheme product may not check those things out. They don't care about that. They don't care about someone they don't know about that. That is the question. We have seen the authorities come out to say guys in Nigeria need to be aware of what is going on. But also that there should be some sort of questions to be asked. For instance, you have the CBN regulating investment and you have the S Securities and Exchange Commission as well. But it's a bit confusing for a lot of people. Can you help us with what people should look out for? Who are those regulated by the SEC? Who are those regulated by the CV? Is it just enough to say you have a CAC registration like we used to ask them sometimes come to the CV so what documentation should people be asking for? You see companies apart from MMM with the likes of Ultimate Cycler, ZAR Fund, Give Us Forum, I Charity, Crowd Rising, Get Help, Worldwide, Remember That One, Cash Double, Remember That One, Apex Forum, Reject Cash, Don't Be, Zogal Funds and so on. It was one that happened recently Inc Nation and Inc Coin. People even lost their lives. So what should people look out for? Well, you've listed quite a bit. One of the reasons that I read of it. At the point that we had over around 60 of them. So you can even go to the list of what they used in that. Now, there are different sites to this. If everybody is collecting money from the public, they must have a CBA after bus. They have to be a CBA registration. And anybody that is registered with a CBA, you can check it out with a CBA. If everybody is collecting investment is when they request space, you must have a check approval for that investment space. For financial institution, there is a program for insurance and not with NDIS. So, if an organization calls itself a financial institution with respect to the NDIS, I won't be registered with NDIS and that will not be checked out with NDIS. So, but if... Okay, go ahead. Yeah, so people who want to invest in NDIS actually go to the website of this institution or ask those people you want to invest with for their CBA approval for CBA license and I see a public of the state life of the NDIS so this like that might happen but we see very few investors in those teams and we will not do that. But let's still come back to the regulators because as much as we are expected, it's a two-way thing the people are responsible for fighting this or resisting all of this the regulators are also responsible and so if we say that some of this Ponzi scheme or all of this Ponzi scheme would get to a point where they have the CAC registration is it not enough for the regulators second CBN to weed out at this point in time to weed out these persons from the space before they get to the people. We seem to have lost connection with Bonlun as soon as we are able to establish that connection we definitely have him back but the concern here is if we say that these persons are not licensed of course they are illegal financial institutions I mean you have a lot of these schemes that are out there but at the end of the day the reason why it's a Ponzi scheme it's because they have gone a different way entirely and you have the regulators saying they are not licensed for instance they don't have the license from the central bank of Nigeria they don't have the license from SEC the security and exchange commission but they have some kind of I'm told we have Bonlun back Bonlun are you there please I cannot hear okay can you hear us now okay it seems Bonlun can't hear us can you hear me okay I can hear you now okay fantastic you were making a point before we lost the connection so please proceed and just complete what you were saying okay alright let's move on I have a question for you which you know you've talked about the CBN you've talked about the security and exchange commission what I understand from what you said is that for those who are taking loans who are giving loans you know you have to look at the CBN approved them to to be giving out issuing loans and for those who are investment platforms where you can go and then put your money in and after some months you get your money out with interest you should look out for SEC certification you also talked about NDIC which is the agency we are looking at but I want to point you to a particular company because I've noticed some of these companies have these SEC approval and I've even been to events where you have these SEC officials come out but you look at the companies maybe they are forced to reduce their interest you know to a reasonable extent some will say because of pressures from the bank there's one company in question who are them such approval ID finance ID finance they recently crashed and depositors funds investments to the tune of billions of NARA was lost but ID finance in 2021 was able to secure a SEC license from the security exchange commission where they crashed okay institutions that are licensed can still crash the operations has not been properly run and that is the role of the regulator comes in if an institution is not registered at full it's really within the full view of the regulator but once it is registered the regulator has an obligation as a watchdog on the activities of that institution he gets a verdict report of what is going on in that institution and we think they are not going right and they put his head in and turn the storm and make sure that it doesn't go down if it should go down where you have an institution that is you know also under NDIT it goes down NDIT will have an issue that is such an important of whatever it has you know will be reimbursed back to the individual at their possible so the case you might have is regulatory failure okay regulatory failure well so you know the question is with the CAC registration is it not possible to still you know fish out some of those illegal institutions that are you know defrauding the people of course people have been doing that what we have also seen over the years is that the guy who actually went around this institution when things go bust they disappear some of them up to today some of the ones that have gone bust two to three years ago husband might have disappeared so we have those that remain around of course they will be sued and dragged to the court to recover and they are said to be disposed of to be able to repay what are done there are a lot of cases in point you talked about the husband and wife you know they were popular online you know they were big in Legos here you have the lady the young girl on facebook who was I think she was selling Zito murders or rice or beans or something like that it was an agriculture they are connected and then the young girl you know people's money is just going down the drain you know you have the 25 in Aquabomb state who also 20 something year old boy I don't even think it's up to 25 you know right away people's money it's tough if you have an SEC approval or CBN approval and then people still need to what can people do because if you have the SEC approval like we have seen with Adi FX who were offering double digits that's what they were giving double digit interest on a monthly basis then maybe because of SEC pressure they had to take it down a bit but it was still high on a monthly basis so if people see okay you have SEC NDIC or CBN approval then how are they going to know whether it's going to go up or go down I mean what other things can people use maybe intuition or what will you say finally it shouldn't be intuition like I said which the regulator has failed and Nigerians have dragged off both regulator responses where an institution that is licensed by regulator is previously returned that are unrealistic that regulator has an obligation to ask questions to request if you are collecting this money from the public and you see you are investing it in this approval but it's not brought as a capacity to generate the kind of return they have promised and if it is not then you withdraw your money you cannot allow that kind of an institution to remain afloat and be collecting money from the public you withdraw your money and some of these returns are of no use in nature if I am a regulator and I have given someone a life debt and he said I will pay you 30% every month 30 times per month is about 360 per month what can he want you to do okay how are you going to get that money so if you have a license and have an obligation to investigate what you are investing in and if it doesn't make sense I will draw that line we have to go so you are saying the regulators as well cannot absorb themself of complicity or neglect they can sue them as well for lots of funds one thank you very much for your time Bola Ho financial expert has been a through having you on the program tonight hopefully next time we will have you in the studio thank you for having me thank you for being with us and that's the size of our show this morning we appreciate you thank you for starting with us having a clock up until now we will return tomorrow at the same time just say yes or no quickly no really I don't believe you to be very honest the way I believe to be very honest you haven't lost money I believe you are paying me for something I have lost money my name is Kofi Bartels my name is Messi hope we will return tomorrow good morning well it's alright to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and do subscribe to your YouTube channel have a great day, I'm Messi Boko