 Good evening and a very warm welcome to our IIE webinar today on digital policy diplomacy, the EU's digital policy relationship with the United States and the digital technology sector. My name is Joyce O'Connor and I chair the digital group here at the IIEA. And it's my great pleasure to welcome our distinguished speaker today, Gerard de Graf, who is the senior EU envoy for digital in the US and Silicon Valley. Good morning to you, Gerard. You're on a different time span than us and we really give you a very warm welcome and thank you for taking the time to be with us out of your busy schedule. We appreciate it very much indeed. Gerard will speak to us for 20 to 25 minutes and then I will go to your audience for questions and answers and you can see the question and answer function at the end of your Zoom question and answer session at the end of your screen. And please feel free to send in the questions during Gerard's presentation and then I'll come back to you once he has finished. When you're sending in a question, really appreciate if you give your name and affiliation. As ever today's presentation and Q&A are both on the record. And join us also on Twitter using the handle at IIEA. The European Commission under President van der Leyen has prioritised two twin policy agendas or pillars, the digital agenda and the green agenda. And in the past years, the EU advanced some significant regulations and data, the digital economy, including GDPR, the Digital Markets Act, the Digital Service Act. And there are new regulatory actions to be adopted, as you know, for instance, the AI Act and the Data Act. So with the arrival of new regulations of data management and data business models and a general ambition in Europe to advance strategic autonomy and technological sovereignty, the appointment of Gerard in September last as senior envoy of digital in the US is very, very timely. Any model of policy and market governance has advantages and of course disadvantages, both in EU member states, but also a relationship with global players like the digital technology sector and the United States of America. Gerard will discuss the importance of digital policy diplomacy and how the EU can change and engage with the US and with leading technology companies in order to address common challenges. He will focus particularly on the EU's Digital Markets Act and the EU's Digital Service Act. These two acts are landmark pieces of regulation, which have been recently adopted by the EU to protect fundamental rights and enhance competition in digital markets. Gerard, the graph, has been at the heart of these developments in the EU. He has worked for more than 30 years in the European Commission across a range of policy areas. Until his recently appointment, he was director of DG Connect, responsible for the Digital Service Act and the Digital Markets Act. Previously Gerard oversaw the EU's Telecommunications, Audiovisual Policy, Cyber Policy and the ICT Standardization Policy. He is also co-chairing two of the EU US Trade and Technology Council working groups on green tech, on data governance and technology platforms. Gerard, we really look forward to your presentation and what as we said just before we came on is a really exciting position. We look forward to as I say to your presentation. Thank you very much. Joyce for the kind introduction. I'm really pleased to be with you today and I'm very happy to set out. I mean, after six months now that we have been here in Silicon Valley in San Francisco, how it's going? I mean, what's kind of how my days are looking and what are the type of issues that we are discussing? I mean, we're here in Silicon Valley. I think for the reasons that you outlined, I mean, the Silicon Valley, I mean, you read about, of course, a little bit of headwinds and kind of some some introspection at the moment, but it is still a very dynamic, fast moving area, region in the world where it's still a source of the new technologies that will kind of become very important in our societies, in our lives, in our economies like AI, like quantum, cyber, etc. So it is still the place to be. And actually the question that I'm often asked here is like, why did it take so long to come to Silicon Valley? I mean, and as you may know, Joyce, we did have an office here in the 90s. And then I don't know somebody in his infinite wisdom decided that like in the early 1990s, this was the time to pack up and go home. This was, of course, it coincided with the time that Silicon Valley like took off, like never expected. And this is now kind of the leading technology hub, not the only one in the world. So we're back and probably we should have been back a little earlier. And we're back, I think, exactly because the European Union is of course, quite active in the digital space, you mentioned the regulations. So yes, we will be and become and we are the digital regulator of the world for many of the companies that have their headquarters here in Silicon Valley. And so it's important that we have a relationship. We have like a way to communicate, not just in Brussels with them, but also like with the headquarters where you can get into a level of kind of responsibility that I mean, in Brussels, we have lots of lobbyists, of course, mostly of them lawyers and they go into the nitty-gritty legislation. But here you can have a bit of a more strategic discussion with leadership about like, well, where are they going and how can they kind of continue to continue to our I mean, prosperity and but in a way that actually takes full account of our values and our fundamental rights. So that I think is a very important part of what we are doing here. And then more widely, I mean, so it's not just the region, but also California is quite a trailblazer in terms of regulation. In the Congress, for reasons that I think you know, not a lot is happening, it's quite a polarized situation. And that means that in practice, actually, most of the legislative activity in the U.S. is taking place at state level. And most of that is taking place in California and Sacramento. So that's also for us a quite important interlocutor. They have adopted a few years ago like a GDPR-type regulation. They're very active into issues also around social media responsibility. They're looking into AI, they're looking into cyber, so they're spending quite a bit of time also in Sacramento to talk with the assembly members there. But it isn't just all about regulation. It's also the view also wants to be a technology power. I mean, you mentioned issues around sovereignty, technological sovereignty. We have, of course, experienced some concerns, I mean, some issues in terms of supply chains that did not work well because of COVID, the dependencies that have been built up in our economic systems. And Europe, if there's one lesson that we've learned over, say, since the last couple of years is we need to be standing more on our own feet. And so we cannot just become a consumer or a user of technologies. We need to continue to be also a producer of technologies and also a producer of like the technologies that we believe are trustworthy and kind of support our kind of economic and social models like in AI or in other technologies. So that's another opportunity we have here is to work very closely with US industry, I mean, to facilitate cooperation with EU industry to work on kind of standard setting and joint projects, for example, in AI or digital twins. So this is a little bit our kind of set of responsibilities. I think it fits into this broader digital diplomacy trends. I mean, because we're not the only ones here, the EU has now, I mean, kind of with me as a senior envoy, but quite a few member states and also kind of third countries have tech ambassadors in Silicon Valley. So you see that that trend. I mean, diplomacy has changed quite fundamentally as a profession over the last, say, five to 10 years. In the past, it used to be quite focused on security issues on trade issues. I mean, look at the issues that the EU is dealing with at the moment. I mean, in terms of like the crisis is that we are dealing with when we have a climate crisis, we have an immigration crisis challenge, we have a digital, I mean, internet type of crisis. I mean, health, water, I mean, energy. So the job description of the average diplomat is a lot different from what it used to be in the past. So this is now translating, particularly for the EU. And I mean, I'm here, we set up this office in San Francisco. It's the only country in the world where the EU has another office outside of the capital, but it could become maybe in India or China in the future, we might see that same model. But we have about 120 delegations around the world. I mean, we are training up our diplomats to kind of be much more conversant in digital technologies, in regulation, also in kind of issues around environment, climate change, sustainability, issues around migration, around health, around access to water. So that I think is also it's a bit of like as the consequence of that more approach towards diplomacy, because the European Union like as a leader, also in tech, but definitely of course in regulation, we have an interest as we have seen with the GDPR for kind of our rules to be taken seriously around the world and where possible also of course copied by countries. We are in effect in some kind of, I mean, there's different models if I go back to digital about like how you use digital in your societies. And there's the European model, very much human centred, the digital for good, digital for people, not the other way around, not digital for profits as the motto has been the motto here in Silicon Valley and still is to a large extent. So that's the model that we have. Then you have a US model, which is more like the laissez-faire market driven model. It's changing a little bit at least in terms of like how people discuss like in the trade and technology council, we have a lot of discussions with the US and we do see eye to eye on the direction. We agree on like how technology should kind of be embedded in our societies. The difference is that we manage to translate these kind of concepts and directions of policy into legislative activities, whereas the US for reasons that are connected to the US political system does not, it has not managed so far and it does not look good for the immediate future to translate, kind of say that the common sense of direction into action. And then you have a third model, which is the, call it the repressive, the model, the authoritarian model using digital technologies for suppressing freedoms. I mean, the Chinese model, the Russian model, the Turkish model, they're all like variation of that same theme. And then if you look at the rest of the world, you look at Africa, you look at Latin America, you look at Asia, of course, a lot of countries are now struggling with the questions that the European Union has been struggling with. How do we keep the internet safe? They have different models now to look at and we would like together with the US countries, of course, to opt for like more human rights-based democratic model. And that's why we try to kind of show them, which is I think is very essential, of course, also in diplomacy. The lead that the European Union is taken on climate change, the lead that the European Union is taken on digital, the lead that the European Union taken on other issues as well, we have to show to the rest of the world that these are winning formulas. That if you do this, you can actually have a successful economy. I mean, we are like, if you take climate change, the European Union accounts for less than 10% of CO2 emissions globally. So if we do everything right in the world, we can only affect the 10%. We can maybe get the 10% to like 5% or even less. But success requires that we convince other countries that they should follow our lead. And we can only do so if we show that this is not going to make us poorer. It is going to lead a prosperous economy. It's going to kind of support our values. And then others will say, hey, this is interesting. And kind of, we might wish to follow in the footsteps of the European Union because it can help us become a more prosperous, a more inclusive, a more sustainable type of society. So that's like what behind, I mean, you can be a diplomat, but if you have like, if you have no results to show for, if you say, look, follow us and then people look and there's nothing or actually it's negative, you're not going to be very successful in kind of making your case. So that everything hangs, kind of everything is related. Well, we're here now in San Francisco since six months. We are actually co-located with the Irish Consulate General, which is an absolute play with Michal Smith, the Consul, the Irish Consul General and his team. I mean, we are so grateful to him and to the other Consul, Consul General here, because of course, we were the new kid in town, literally. We've had a lot of support from our member states here to kind of help us to make connections and build up networks to tell us. Like one of the things they told me, for example, was never wear a tie. Don't use your Brussels attire and go to meet each other like a valley because they will immediately conclude that you haven't understood them. You don't fit in. It's interesting. I was always wearing a tie in Brussels. But we're very grateful to our member states. I think we've been welcomed also by the community here. I think that the time is right for the kind of discussion that we're trying to bring to Silicon Valley is how can we keep the internet safe? I mean, how can we keep the internet open and competitive? The markets open and competitive at the same time, of course, ensuring that we secure our democracies, our fundamental freedoms, our values. We kind of make sure that also the markets remain fair. I think that there's a debate about this in Silicon Valley. People are open. They are eager actually to debate these issues in kind of the wake of quite a few scandals that have happened. I think also these companies recognize that whilst they bring fantastic innovations to the market, let's not forget, there's also a downside. There's a dark side to the internet, to social media platforms with illegal content, with disinformation, harmful content, hate speech, or dangerous products that you can buy on marketplaces, counterfeit products you can buy on marketplaces. I think the companies recognize that not all is good on the Western front in the US and that they need to step up their game. I think what the EU is bringing with the Digital Service Act and the Digital Markets Act, even though it creates some concerns in the minds also of the top level here, particularly in the DMA, maybe the DMA more than the DSA. I think the fact that we set some very fashionable word here in Silicon Valley in the US is guardrails. I've never heard of guardrails in Europe, but as we all heard, a motorway. But the fact that the EU is setting some guardrails, some rules of the boat, is generally welcomed. The DSA is very much about safety on the internet, so how to make sure that illegal content is addressed, is avoided as much as possible with this information. I think there is a greater alignment with the industry here, the companies here, because that's also what they want themselves. No company, your Meta or your Amazon or your TikTok. You do not want to become a purveyor of illegal content. We've seen a bit with Twitter that when the content moderation changed with Twitter, a lot of the advertisers were saying, well, I'm not sure Twitter is still a safe place to place my advertisement, because I don't want to see my advertisement next to hate speech, for example. Here there is, I think, a strong alignment between what the platforms want and what the regulation requires. Of course, the devil is in the detail. It sets out a systemic approach. So we're actually taking a lot of inspiration from banking regulation. The truth is that the internet companies are becoming regulated industry. However you turn it, that's the reality. Like financial industry is a regulated industry. The pharmaceutical industry is a regulated industry. The energy industry is a regulated industry in transport and mobility. So they are regulated industry, but we are looking at it a bit like with the, and the regulator is the European Commission for the Very Large Online Platform, which is also changed now, because it used to be the member state. Ireland used to be a very lead regulator, as it still is, for example, for the GDPR. Now for the Very Large Online Platforms under the DSA, the European Commission will become the regulator. In the next couple of weeks, you will see the first designations, because we will need to designate these companies so that they know that they are within the scope and they will have to comply with the rules and regulations in the Digital Services Act. So the way we're going to implement that regulation is very much like the way banking regulators implement banking regulations. So we look at systems, to kind of how robust are the systems. I don't think we have, I mean, we are not under no illusion. I mean, there will always be problems like with illegal content, because we're not stocking the content at the door. We are not saying you have to do ex-ante monitoring of content before it can be uploaded by the users. That is not practical, but it is also kind of in violation of our fundamental rights. So there will be some illegal content that will be uploaded, because we have like, I mean, there's users here who have bad intentions and they will upload illegal content for this information or offer dangerous products. The kind of the requirement of the Digital Services Act is that these platforms have systems in place that allow them to detect early illegal content, then remove it when they can and also, of course, prevent these illegal content from surfacing on their platform. So here, I think we are more or less aligned and we will look at the systems and we have put elements in place, which will help also social media companies, for example, to detect, I mean, notice an action. So you and I and I mean, anybody can, if we see something on the social media platform, we can say, look, we think there's a problem with that content. Please check it out. And if you find the need, it's illegal or it infringes your terms and conditions and please remove it. We are giving a right to researchers to access platform data so they can look under the hood. So that we're asking platforms to do risk assessments. They will undergo independent external audits. If you're a marketplace, you have to do due diligence on know your business customer. I mean, so also terms that I think we're quite familiar with from the financial regulations. So that's the DSA or the DMA. It's a little bit, I mean, we are defining unfair practices in the digital markets. I mean, the internet is all about scale and speed. It's network effect. So what you see typically in the internet is that the few companies are growing very fast, very big and become very powerful. That's what we've seen across kind of different sectors, whether it's app stores, whether it's social media companies, whether it's marketplaces. And so the reality is that these companies are so powerful that they can set the rules of the road. I mean, there's an asymmetric relationship. They can impose conditions on users that kind of rely on them, like marketplaces, if you are a third-party seller. Well, good luck if you want to sell and kind of ignore Amazon, for example. I mean, Amazon is a very big player. And so if you're not on Amazon, you deny yourself an important opportunity to reach a part of your potential customer base. So what you see is that there are particular practices that these companies have engaged in, which we would regard or the legislature as regards as unfair. So basically, what the DMA, the Digital Markets Act says, if you want to do business, you are very welcome in the European Union, but you don't do this. If you want to play, I'm a great sports fan. It's like the football soccer, as they say here. It's not Gaelic football that we play. If you want to play football, like we know it in Europe, don't play in a way that kind of breaks the rules. So we're kind of clearly setting out that certain practices are not allowed. You cannot self-preference. If you're a company like Amazon, you can't use the information that you have about third-party sellers to out-compete them. That's unfair. If you are an app store, like Apple, you can't build a walled garden that prevents people from kind of downloading apps from outside of your app store, from other app stores or even from the Internet. If you are kind of a social media company or a marketplace company, you cannot impose certain types of payment systems and say, this is the only one you can use. So there are in the Digital Markets Act about 20 or so practices that we say, look, no more, or obligation. If you are kind of really big and others want to compete with you, you need to give access to data that you have. Because data is, of course, an important part of your competitive strength and your leverage you've got over the market. So if you want to restore a bit the balance of competition in the EU, you will have to kind of give access to data to your competitor. So those are kind of the kind of requirements that, of course, companies don't like. So if I ask companies here, like, well, DSA, DMA, what do you think? They will say, well, we think DSA is pretty good. We like it. DMA, not so sure because we think that's kind of not necessarily compatible with what has made us so successful in this space. Maybe a few words about, say, the global effects of this or the effects here on the US. The US is not regulating in this space a little bit. So what you will get effectively, and this is going to create an interesting dynamic in the US. And to put it in a quite kind of bold way, I mean, the US EU citizens will be better protected than American citizens that are getting services from American companies. And if that's in the DMA, Apple hasn't yet said how it will implement, as by way of example, how it will implement the digital market sector, but it might well be that they will set up an app store for Europeans, for Europe, because they will have certain requirements in the DMA which are not compatible with the way the app store works at the moment. So either they would have to kind of modify their app store for everybody in the world, or they will just set up an app store, which meets to kind of the requirements in Europe and then leave the app store that they have in place for the rest of the world. It might be that they do the letter that they will set up an app store for Europeans. In which case, Europeans, if you have an Apple device, you can download from other app stores that might be new app stores. We expect a lot of innovation to come, so there might be specialized app stores, maybe an app store for games, maybe app stores for health applications, for other types of applications. So you can download on your iPhone apps from outside of the app store environment. Quite likely you will not be subject to the 30% charge that Apple takes. If you download from the web, definitely you won't be subject to that 30% charge. So I would imagine that Americans here are going to ask themselves, if I find out about this, and it would be that Europeans are getting better treatment American companies than American citizens get from American companies. So that might create an interesting dynamic. And then we have to see what happens around the world. You are familiar with the Brussels effect, the GDPR having been adopted by quite a few countries around the world. We would expect the DSA and the DMA also to act as a source of inspiration. The DSA and the DMA are very comprehensive pieces of legislation. I mean, you need a lot of regulatory capacity to implement a piece of legislation like the DSA and the DMA. It's not easy, but certain parts could be implemented of the DSA and the DMA. We have a lot of dialogue, which I mean, when I was in Brussels about more than six months ago, 20, 30% of my time was spent on discussing with Japan, Korea, Australia, Canada, I mean, the countries in Latin America and Southeast Asia about the Digital Service Act and the Digital Markets Act, because of course, if we get a competitive advantage, which we believe we will get, compared to Americans, we will also get that same competitive advantage compared to the Japanese or South Koreans. So there's going to be an interesting dynamic as these laws are kind of implemented, maybe in practical terms. And then I conclude the DSA is, I mean, it's in force, but it's not yet in application. We would, I mean, the companies had to submit or publish data about their user numbers, because we're looking at very large online platforms, a very large online search engines, with more than 10%, serving more than 10% of the EU population, so 45 million users. 17 February was the date when this information could be published. And now we're preparing for designations of these companies in the next couple of weeks. And then four months later, the law will enter into application. So from that point on, so if it's mid-March, say, and March, we're talking mid-July and July, when the Digital Services Act for the very large online platforms and very large online services will start to apply in practice. And also by that time, for example, they will need to submit to us their risk assessment. So they will need to look at their services and make a determination to what extent their services, their facilities can can be abused or can kind of produce risks to our society across a number of areas. Risk, for example, for spreading illegal content, but also risk for gender violence, protection of minors, disinformation, etc. So by the time that the legislation enters into application, we will need to receive already these risk assessments. So action is needed. I mean, these companies are very, very busy preparing the context that we've had confirms that there's serious engagement at the level of social media companies here in Silicon Valley. And so the law will start to apply in about four months time. The Digital Services Act is a little bit further down the road. I would say one year from now to this, so I could enter into application. There's a number of steps. In the meantime, by the beginning of May, we will need to receive from the likely gatekeepers. So the very big companies because the scope is only only very big companies. So between 10 and 15 maximum 20 companies will be in scope. So beginning of May, they need to send us the data. And then kind of by after the summer, say around September, they'll be designated. And then six months later, so say beginning of March, around this time next year, the Digital Markets Act will start to apply. I mean, there's lots more to say, but maybe stop here for questions. I haven't talked about AI, I haven't talked about savvy conductors. There's lots more to say, but that's of course here for