 This episode of the podcast is supported by Audible. You can download and listen to the world's best storytelling. I use it all the time to inform work. You can listen to audiobooks, original series and more on their free app. To get your free 30 day subscription, which includes a free book, click on the link in our show notes and enjoy. Hey folks, welcome to the podcast. Today I was joined by a great guy, Arjun Sofat, who is the CEO and founder of FreeSoul and they do way protein, well not just way, but protein for the female market. And it's great to hear how he started his business, why he always wanted to be an entrepreneur and all of the challenges he's faced since starting. So raising cash, marketing, using the various social media platforms, finding some co-founders as well. So really, really cool and I hope you enjoy the story. Hey, it's Lewis. Welcome to the podcast. Enjoy our conversations anytime, anywhere. Cool, my life. Arjun, thank you very much for coming in. Thank you for having me on. Pleasure, pleasure. We've just been chatting over coffee and we've realized that we've probably spent most of our life around about the same places. We have. Radler, Happy Dashes, Watford. The exciting ends. Yeah. So you went to school in Habs? I did, went to Habs. I was there from 13 to 18, very intense, but played a lot of sport. Nice. Pricot in particular, which is how I know your friend Stuart. Yeah. And you're still playing. Cool. I like to say that I'm still playing, although I'm much lower standard, which is part of the aging process, I guess. You need to keep up that fitness. I think so, yeah, yeah. I've tried to keep it up. Oh, how so? So I do, I diarise my fitness, because you've got to be really structured nowadays. You just get so busy with work. Yeah, yeah. And most of my friends, and if they're listening, I don't care, they're completely out of shape. Right. So I do CrossFit, Okay, yeah, of course. Which is like this American weightlifting, calisthenics and stuff. Full body, yeah. And I do that like, say, three times a week. I do yoga once a week. Very nice. Good for mobility. Amazing for mobility. And you can have a little meditation in there and stuff. And then I do running. So marathons and half-marathons. Wow. So I had a high standard then. Well, I didn't say I was good at it. I tried. So I book in like a marathon or half-marathon, like maybe a couple a year. And it gives me a goal to train for. That's why I'm looking this good. And I have a bit of protein as well. Brilliant, I hope you're choosing wisely on that protein source. Absolutely, yeah. What about, what's your, what about you? Training-wise? Yeah. So for me, obviously, there are physical benefits. You're getting better shape, but I mainly do it because it sets my day up nicely. So I'm up at 5.30 pretty much every day. I'm in the gym by six, done by seven, in the office by eight. Perfect. And it just sets the day up really nicely. So I tend to do weights about four times a week, force myself to do cardio once a week, and then something sport-related once a week. So cricket or? Cricket, tennis, badminton. But the sports stuff will tend to be on the weekend. I think it just breaks up your day nicely. Yeah, yeah. That's great. And what about for your mind? Do you find this like really good for a mindset? To be honest, that's pretty much why I do it. It's a great discipline and it gets you in a routine. So the better I work in the gym, the better I work in the office. And that's sort of my motivation. Plus it allows you to sort of eat a little bit more flexibly, which is a perk. So you're quite strict with your diet or? Pretty strict, yeah, pretty strict. I'm transitioning into a vegan diet right now. And so just being able to make that transition, I think, requires you to be on your nutrition. So you're just conscious of what you're eating, because I just feel that if you're in the gym, you're working hard. You want to be kind of doing justice to that through what you eat. Definitely. So yeah, I'm putting up for that. And why are you transitioning to a vegan diet? I'm choosing me from eating meat, right? Yeah, exactly. So it went from eating meat to becoming vegetarian and now cutting out dairy. And the reason really is it's a mixture of a few things. One is obviously animal welfare. There's been so much more information about kind of what happens in that whole farming process. But also for the environment. So a vegan diet, there's a lot of research behind it that suggests it's kind of to the environment. And so it's a whole sort of plethora of different reasons. I also feel better when I cut out meat and dairy. And so for those reasons, I'm transitioning. So you feel better when you're not eating meat? Oh, for sure. You just feel lighter. And a lot of people will say kind of where do you get your protein from? Well, luckily, that's not an issue for me. It's interesting. Interesting companies now that make meat in the lab. Exactly, yeah. If one came on the podcast, they're called High Estate. So they make meat. Exactly, yeah. So you take a little bit of blood from a cow or pig, whatever, grow it in the lab. 99% less water, et cetera. Really? Yeah, you can make fish as well. Really? So overall, going forward, it feels like that's the way that we're going to be eating. Absolutely. Would you eat that meat, right? Nothing's been killed. I mean, given that nothing's been killed, I haven't done any sort of research on that. It's on the process, but provided there's no sort of animal downside, then I mean, I'd be open to looking into it for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's great. Because also the problem is, I mean, really, the problem is there's so many humans in the planet. Yeah. Because farmland for animals, but also farmland for vegetables. Absolutely, yeah. So if we're all, say we're all vegan eating plant-based stuff, it's still bad for the environment. So it would be nice to get to a point where we're making this stuff. Absolutely, yeah. Which would be awesome. Oh, it would be brilliant. A lot happening in the background to kind of figure out that whole puzzle and a little come to the surface fairly soon, hopefully. Definitely, definitely. Really interesting. And your product is all vegan. Well, we have a vegan line and a dev. Let's get into it. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So after uni, so you went into banking? I did. Took the investment banking route. I was in the M&A team, so the hours were very, very long, but it was fun. I mean, the learning curve is steep, but what you take away from that is a lot of knowledge, a lot of discipline, good work ethic. So I don't regret it whatsoever. It was a fantastic couple of years. But during that time, my dad actually had a very serious health scare and that prompted my mom to take exercise as a stress outlet. And along with that exercise came the taking seriously of nutrition. And she started taking these protein shakes to go with the exercise that was supposedly for women. But I would look into these shakes and there wasn't really anything in the ingredients that made it justifier before the female market. And alongside that, they had these brands which were very demeaning and just talked about weight loss or skipping meals. And it was a fairly unhealthy message that they were pushing. And I felt that was wrong for both fronts. And so that's the stage I quit my job and started working with a guy called Dr. Adam Gunnliffe. And he's the nutritionist behind all of the innovation in free soul. So we developed these blends over the course of a year that actually impacted female wellbeing through hormonal balance, bone density, energy, collagen production, and also impacts the menstrual cycle because it's very high in iron. Amazing. And alongside that, we developed a brand that was genuinely empowering in the same way that if you look at Nike, you walk into Nike's down, you feel like an athlete. And I think that's such a fantastic thing. And so we developed a brand that made you feel good about yourself, which is sort of where the name Free Soul comes about. And so that's the kind of mini story linking to banking. Love it, love it. Had you always wanted to be an entrepreneur? Oh, for as long as I can remember. Really? And banking was an education piece. I sort of looked at it as a post-UNI kind of military training thing. Right. So, yeah, as for as long as I can remember. Whip you into shape, get you in. Oh, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, did you do anything before that? Are you just been... Business wise? Yeah. So, on both my mom's side of the family and my dad's side of the family, everyone is into business. All my uncles, my aunts, my grandmother still runs her own business, my grandfather's still running his own business. And so it's what I've grown up seeing. Yeah. And so just naturally, it's what excites me and gets me up in the morning. And even during my time in banking, I'd look at these companies as businesses, not just clients of a bank, and try and understand sort of how the big machine works. And that's what I find exciting. So... Was it quite a big step for you to quit your banking job? Or did you always see it as... I'll do it until I can think of a cool idea to... Yeah, I think before quitting, I naturally did some commercial analysis looking at the market size, the opportunity, capital that would be required, returns, valuations, all that sort of thing. And after assessing all of those things, that's when I made the leap to quit. So it was both, you have to think with your heart, but also the mind has to come into the equation for sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what's it been like? It's been great. I mean, enjoying every day, you go to work with a purpose. It's exciting because you're on the front line and pushing the growth forward. And so it's very, very exciting. Obviously more stressful in a different way because you're looking after more parts naturally until you've grown out your team. So you started on your own? Yeah. Initially, I was just on my own. And so I was head of finance, head of marketing, head of ops, CEO, head of the cleaning department, all of it, yeah. And where did you get the product made? So it's all made in the UK. So like I said, Adam, the nutritionist, I worked with him to formulate the products, but then we found manufacturers in the UK that could meet our specific requirements and manufacture at high quality. Nice. How come you decided to make everything in the UK? I just think the quality that you can produce has much higher, the regulations are more strict, which means that you're sourcing higher quality ingredients. And so you can just control that supply chain and make sure your standards are where they need to be if it's on home turf. Great. It's whey protein. Whey and pea and white hemp. So we have a vegan line and we have a dairy line. So the whey is produced here as well as the vegan lines. What's white hemp? White hemp is a form of hemp protein. So it's got a really strong amino acid profile, which is why we add it in with a pea protein. So most of the others not white hemp? So what do you get like white hemp and? And regular hemp. And just regular hemp. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The difference is really the amino acid profile. Ah, okay, fine. And you're doing much CBD stuff. It's an interesting area. Yeah, yeah. I think the issue right now is that it's classified as a novel food. And so the regulation isn't too clear. A novel food. Something along those lines, the MHRA is kind of a bit gray on CBD. And so it's not clear what's gonna happen in the short, medium, or long-term regarding regulations. And so it's definitely an interesting product. The research is interesting. But I just think for us to release something CBD related would be a bit premature given the regulations. Everyone seems to be on this bandwagon. Exactly. Get like champagne, chocolate. Yeah, exactly. I mean, which is interesting. Let's see where it all develops. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think it will ultimately become more and more popular, I think. Yeah, I think so. It's already becoming so mainstream. You walk into Holland and Barrett, they have a whole aisle dedicated to CBD. I mean, I use a little bit before sleep. Okay. I use the oil just like a few drops before bed. It's quite good also after the gym. Is it really? Yeah, it's an anti-inflammatory, pain relief. Yeah. It helps you sleep a little bit. I mean, who knows, right? But I guess it's like taking vitamins. I mean, I thought it was classified as a health food, but not really, I guess. Yeah, it's an interesting one. I just think there needs to be a bit of stability on the regulation side before looking at it more seriously. So at least that's how we're thinking about it. But definitely a very cool product. Yeah. And the industry you're in is very cool. So like health foods and nutrition. So how have you managed to stand out from all the other protein? Yeah, I think it's a mixture of innovation when it comes to the actual ingredients. So creating products that actually have an impact on wellbeing and it's not just brand and it's got backing from one of the most senior clinical nutritionists in the UK. And so from a product perspective, we definitely stand out. But then on a brand perspective, that's really what people are engaging and that's a constant process of work, working with individuals that represent your brand, that believe in it, and really marketing that correctly. And so it's a mixture of the two. And I think that process of creating a brand that makes people feel a certain way is extremely hard to replicate and also constant innovation on our new product lines. It's a real mixture of those three elements. And you're using social media a lot to get the message out and... Yeah, absolutely. Social media, paid media. Influences and... Yeah, exactly. It's a mix. We don't do one thing. I think what you have to constantly do is test marketing channels to see where your return is coming from and then double up there. But it's not a finished process. That's always changing. It's a trial, error, try things. Exactly. It's just a series of constant experiments and getting more and more granular with each one. Yeah. Have you found Instagram as being your main platform or one of the main platforms? One of, certainly not the most. Like I said, it's a real mix. So we're also at shows. We go to shows where we actually get to meet a lot of our customers, which is how we gather data. But given my background in banking, we take a very data-driven approach to every single thing that we do. And so the amount of data we use, the analysis, we actually run regression models based on the data points that we have. And based on that, we know where to spend our budget. Awesome. So it's a mix, a real mix. So you sell via your website? Yes. Which I have up now, which is very cool. Oh, thank you so much. And then you also do wholesale? So you sell to... We do. Yeah, so we're in super drug boots, Revital, Argos, Selfridges, various independent stores. Nice. How did you find the process of getting into these places? You know, a lot of people will say, oh, it was a tough process, there's that in the other end. Of course, there's a lot of hard work involved, but actually the guys that we met in retail and that we've been working with have been wonderful. I think when they back the brand and they believe in the product, the whole process becomes a lot more smooth. And so there's a lot of work involved. It's definitely a longer sort of process than selling on e-com. Yeah, yeah. But no, it's a great thing. And you find that you do more wholesale than... No, we're more direct to consumer for sure. Nice. Or via your website? Via our website, yeah, for sure. Retail's fantastic, we're doing well in retail, but direct to consumers where we can have the most impact in a more condensed time. Yeah. But we absolutely work with our retailers. I think a lot of people will take the approach that you know what, we're going to retail, but we're just going to push D2C. For us, we'd like to work with our retailers to make sure that they're selling well and we're selling well. It's just a function of that, that we happen to be selling more on D2C. But no, we sell well across. So you've actually invested a lot of time building your direct model? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I mean, because back in the day, it was all wholesale. Was it really? I set up a fashion brand. Well, I was a distributor actually. So I worked in the fashion sector a lot and over the last 20 years, you've really seen new brands such as yourselves and others really focusing more on direct. Sure. Because if you start selling, you know, when someone Googles you, you want your website to come up first. Absolutely, yeah. You can make the sale at a high margin and then they might do it somewhere else. Sure. So it's cool starting something new and doing what you're doing because ultimately the value for you is people coming to your website engaging with you and buying the product. For sure. I mean, it's definitely a bit of both. So if the buying experience works better for an individual that, say, lives opposite boots and we're stocked in boots, that's totally fine. We want to make that as frictionless as possible to make sure that our rate of sale is where it needs to be in store. And for us, ultimately, it is selling the product through different avenues. And so there is the argument as well of overall volumes, blended margin and how you kind of make sense of that whole process and we have done. Cool, awesome. And are you just selling in the UK? We sell to 40 countries now. Wow, nice. Mainly through our website. So it's been such an exciting process and it's very cool to kind of see people upload pictures of our product when they're sat in Hawaii or sat across the states. So yeah, very cool. Very cool. Did you focus on marketing? No, internationally, it's been 100% organic. So we don't spend any money abroad at the moment. Although that will soon change. And they've just come inbound. I think that's the beauty of social media that it's not restrictive to one mass of land. You can sort of see it from anywhere, which is great. And how have you found setting up this distribution to different countries? That, to be honest, is not the most challenging bit because nowadays the infrastructure to get that done is so simple and so affordable that you can ship to the other side of the world for less than a tenner. So that part of it is totally fine. I think it's more about generating sustainable demand in more than one region, which is the more involved part. Have you found that to be the main challenge you've faced? Not just yet because we haven't taken international markets as seriously as the UK. Like I said, that's going to change very soon. But I suppose we'll find out when we do that. But so far it's been okay. What have you seen as the stages? You started on your own with your nutritionist. And you were doing everything. At what point did you start identifying positions that you wanted filled and really started to build your business? I built out a really, really involved cash flow model day one before we started trading. And so I knew when we'd need to make various hires. Obviously that's up for tweaking and naturally it changes. And it's a fairly constant work stream. So even kind of the day before we're planning out our hires for next year. And that's different to what we anticipated in pre-launch. But naturally that happens. So I knew after certain revenue levels or to get certain revenue levels, we'd need certain people that are better than me in certain positions. So that's what we've done. Also, and so how long's it been now? We've just done two years. Wow. So we had a bit of a celebration and it was a lot of fun. So although it feels like longer. Yeah. It feels like longer. Although time flies. It's a bit of a weird one. Yeah, yeah. But when you're doing your own thing, I mean, it's all on you. You just got to be on it, right? Oh, for sure. And it just... Seven day work week. It just goes. It really does. Yeah, it really does. And my gray hairs have been sprouting up a bit more. You've got a lot less than I have. Oh really? In fact, you've got a lot more hair than I have. Is it what you expected it would be? I'm not sure actually. I think when you're so in the midst of things it's hard to sort of remember your expectations. I think actually it's been a lot more fun than I thought it would be. Just the purpose of being able to go into the office with that purpose. And as long as the growth is there you're enjoying that process and which it has been. So yeah, it's been... I think it's been better than what I thought it would be which is great. And you sound very organized. Planning and everything. Have you found it that it's gone to plan? Because nowadays you find it. People do two, three, five year plans or whatever. But you find nowadays long term is six months almost. Oh, exactly, yeah. You're finding that it's really quite dynamic and... It's very dynamic. And it depends on the business avenue and the sales avenue. So for Econ we split up our months into sprints and different sprints will last different periods of time. So typically it'll be a week, two weeks but it'll be part of a larger overarching strategy. So that we can plan for the next 12 months, et cetera. But the work is actually broken down into weeks. And so every week there'll be kind of new processes happening to drive sales forward and drive growth. And that keeps you on your toes, which is a lot of fun. Nice. And you have a nice support structure around you. So mentors or anyone that you lean on for advice. Absolutely, yeah. As you all the family members are doing their own thing. So we're actually backed by NatWest and we're part of their incubator program. And we just got kind of promoted to their scale-up portion. Nice. Which has been a fantastic process of getting in there. I was actually talking to NatWest about a finance arrangement just so we could sort of deal with some of the retail side of the business. And they told me, oh, you know what? You should actually talk to the guys in the scale-up portion of NatWest. They've just opened up this entrepreneurship program. Why don't you come in for an interview? Interview was great. Just ended up chatting for a long time. They're impressed with the business and the scale. And so they've hosted us in their office space, which is fantastic, but beyond that, they give us access to mentors, to acceleration managers. And they sort of coach young entrepreneurs and give them a lot of support, which has been fantastic. Amazing. And so you have access to mentors there. And I think the value needs to be, you can't really know your mentor beforehand. That would be an ideal situation because then they're very objective. Wait, so they just give you someone? You can apply. So they have sort of almost a database of various mentors. And so you can approach them. You can talk to kind of your acceleration manager, which who is assigned to you about getting in touch with all of these different people. But even just talking to founders, I think that's one of the most fantastic things because they can relate to what you're going through. They will be facing similar challenges or maybe challenges that you haven't faced or challenges that you've overcome. And so it's a real mutually beneficial process there. Brilliant. And they give you office space as well. They do, yeah. So we're based in Angel, right in the center of London. Fantastic office space. Fifth floor, near Kings Cross. Nice. Yeah, it's awesome. And it must be nice to have somewhere to go to work. Absolutely. I mean, before this, we were based in Harrow. So we did have an office beforehand anyway. But for sure, central London is just a different kettle of fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'd be able to attract better people, more people to work with you as well being based there. It's an interesting one. And one of the guys on our board certainly thinks so. But I'm not too sure if that's necessarily true. Gymshark is based in Solihull, super outside the center. And they have some of the most brilliant people in the world. That's true. I messaged the founder, went and met him. He was kind enough to see me, kind of one-on-one, sat for a couple of hours. You went up to Birmingham. Yeah, I went to their HQ, which is unbelievable. So it's in Solihull? Solihull, yeah. And his name is Ben Francis. If you haven't seen his YouTube videos, you've got to check them out. I need to watch it. I do wear some of his clothes, actually. Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people are nowadays. It's cool. Yeah, fantastic clothing. And he's attracted some brilliant people. And he's not based anywhere near London. And so, or the center of sort of Birmingham. And so I'm not sure. I think if your mission is strong enough, and if you're demonstrating that people can grow with you as individuals as well, and you're offering them that path, then I think you'll be able to attract talent. It's interesting. Yeah, I mean, there's clearly more talent near big cities. For sure, yeah. For sure. But you are seeing firms like Gymshark. And in the US, you're seeing a lot of firms moving outside the big cities. Yeah. Because it's, I mean, rent's expensive. Absolutely. Salaries are really high. Absolutely. But as long as you pick somewhere where there's good transport links. For sure. And good unis and spores, whatever. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think startups have a competitive advantage on talent in that respect. You may not be able to pay the best salaries in the world, but you will be able to involve someone fully in the business. And so I believe that someone's learning curve will be much steeper and more involved if you're working in a startup. And that's why, provided you're able to do that, you should be able to attract talent, although that's obviously a challenge. Yeah, yeah. The young people's interesting with startups because, I mean, what a great place to work as a young person. Yeah. However, you've got to pick the right one because often, if they don't have time to train you. Yes. It's tough, right? Absolutely. And you have to be, as a young person, the right mindset that you're comfortable with ambiguity, comfortable with something that's not structured, things moving. Unlike, say, going into a big bank, you touch on it very structured, a military style. This is what you're doing. Here's the training session. So it's interesting. You've got to be in the right mindset for this thing. Oh, for sure. It just depends what you want out of life. I think that's just the best way to look at it. If you like a corporate structure, you want set training, you want set hours, you know what you're going to take home every single month. It's definitely a corporate argument. But for me, my fear of being bored was greater than the fear of taking risks. And so going into business was something that I was always naturally going to do. And so it just depends what you want out of life. It's great, absolutely. I was the same. Yeah, of course, yeah. I started your own business very young, still a businessman. Still going. It's great fun, all of its mindset. Absolutely. You've got to think carefully about whether or not you want that life. For sure. And if it's for you, it's outstandingly fun. Absolutely. And rewarding and stuff like that. How did you find, as we talked about people, obviously the other big thing is money. How did you find raising cash and finding investors and so forth? Fundraising is an interesting one. And I think you have to be careful, because you need to pick investors that hopefully have some experience or exposure to your vertical, because that way you can have more meaningful conversations. Because it's not just about money, but I think people do confuse that and think fundraising is just about the money. So you wanted money and intellect, experience. Yeah, I think someone wants to call it capital plus. Get the capital plus, you get that experience and value add. Because that is so important that you're able to have conversations with, whether it be your board or just angel investors, or if you've got VC backing with your VC, that elevate your business model and position you in the correct way for an exit, if that's what you're going for. And so that's something that I think we've done successfully. We've got really fantastic people on board. And they get involved so far as advising us on strategy, which is exactly what we wanted. Brilliant. So you've got them involved in your board, let's say. They have a seat at the table. They meet once a quarter or whatever. Yeah, on those sort of things, even if it's not an official board seat, they're always happy to meet us and have a chat about where are we headed, where do you see the next six months, or how have the past couple of quarters gone, that kind of thing. And just prodding us and poking holes in our thinking, which is very helpful. I think some people find that uncomfortable. But for us, we just want to make sure that we are covered from all angles and that we're seeing everything fully. And so our investors help us do that for sure. That's great. Are you going to go down the crowdfunding route? A few of my friends are going down that route. I don't think at our seed level it was for us, necessarily, because it's harder to get that value add if you've got, I don't know, 100 investors through the crowd. And you can't go and chat to each one. There's nothing wrong with raising on the crowd. Some people have done it really well. Brewdog has obviously grown prominently in their crowd company. But I don't think it was for us at that stage, but never say never. Fine. I should be open to a little crowdfunding. Yeah, we'd be open to looking at it. I'm not sure if it's the route that we would necessarily go down, but always keeping the options over. You never know. It's correct. When you started, you kind of self-funded. Yes. And then from day one, you started to look for some maybe cornerstone investors, high net worth, so it could start to. Yeah, I think we were lucky that we actually got a lot of inbounds, because we fairly publicly grew quite quickly, just getting listings and social approval and social media following went up very quickly as well. And so we were lucky to get a lot of inbounds. And through that, you sort of build out your network and have those conversations. And that's sort of how it happened. Awesome. That's really cool. And you don't have a co-founder, right? So I have two. It's two, right? Yeah, so one of my co-founders's name is Steph. So Steph is basically in charge of our product development. So she's been working really hard on our new product range, which I'm hoping will drop by December Jan, although it's now November. So I'm not sure. December Jan, we'll stick a little link on the show now so people can click and go through. And my other co-founder's name's Alex. So he's in charge of our retail division. And so he's fantastic, fully on top of it, driving great sale, working with the whole supply chain. And we all sort of work together to drive strategy forward. Awesome. So you started on your own? I did, yeah. At what point in time did you think I want some help, some co-founders to? I just think it's a natural progression because you, as a solo founder, can't do everything. And I think it's wrong for you to have absolute decision making on every vertical, because you need people that see things differently to you to be making decisions in the verticals that you're not as good as them in. And so recognizing what you're not good at and what other people are very good at, it just forms easy decisions. And so it was never a difficult conversation or something to overcome. I think it was just a natural thing. Picking a co-founder's tough, right? I mean, you're spending seven days a week with them. Absolutely. More time than you are with your family. Oh, yeah. Did you know them before? No. How did you go back to that? Didn't know either of them before. I think, I'm not sure if you've read this book, The Founder's Dilemma. No, no. And it talks about kind of exit valuations correlated to, if you know your co-founder before, one of the chapters goes into that a little bit. Cool. And I think generally speaking, it works better if you don't know your co-founders before. That's what the data suggests anyway. Interesting. Just because you can talk a lot more objectively about your goals and the business strategy. And it allows your thinking to be a lot more transparent, which I think has to be sort of the core of how you run your business. It has to be transparent. And often if you've known someone for a very long time, you know their emotional cues. And so you may kind of hesitate to be as transparent. Absolutely. Whereas between the three of us, there's no filter. And that's brilliant. And that's why we worked really well together. And we're good friends as well. Amazing. So it was kind of like speed dating, right? Sort of. So you like met them for an hour or two. And you thought, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, it's sort of, to be honest, I mean. A recruitment is kind of like speed dating, for honest. I mean, you're meeting someone for an hour to decide whether you want to spend most of your life sitting with them and. Exactly. Oh, that's an interesting way to look at it. I might have to tell both of them that and see what they say. Brilliant. And so what are your plans for the future now? I think we've talked international. Absolutely, yeah. Do you want to lay out lines? International markets are a definite choice for us. I think it's just about positioning that correctly and facing that out well so that we can manage our marketing budgets and grow efficiently. Great. But really, it's a story of scale. So we've got new products in the pipeline, specifically for certain sectors. And it's about releasing those successfully, maintaining great road of sale, and also growing our D2C channels. So that's our plan. So we've got a very kind of hectic few years ahead. I love it. And Brexit? Do you see that? Can I have a bit of a? Who knows? Who knows? No, I mean, we've made. We've all seen productions in the UK. So, I mean, that's great. That's a thing that really helps us. So we're all UK based. And so selling within the UK, obviously, from an import perspective, it doesn't hit us in that way. But let's see what Brexit even means. I mean, that's going to give us clarity. We have got contingency plans about, you know, should it mean one thing? Then we've got kind of a plan. But fingers crossed that it's not too disruptive. Hopefully it will all work out. Everything works out in the end. Oh, absolutely. And maybe Brexit will happen one day. Let's see. Who knows? We've got an election to come first. Absolutely. But look, well done with everything you're doing. It's great to speak to people there. Thank you for having me on. Doing things. And I know it's great to speak to you and look forward to watching your journey. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hey, folks. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe in all the usual places.