 HBCU Digest, welcome back to our Presidential Leadership Series. Today, we have distinguished guests of the very rare variety here on the Digest, a current and former president of one of our esteemed historically black colleges, Tukalu College president, Dr. Carmen J. Walters, and former president, Dr. Beverly Wade Hogan. They announced last week a very, very important gift to the institution, four million dollars, the largest in school history from an individual donor. And this will go to the establishment and endowment of Dr. Hogan's Scholarship Fund. And so what a pleasure it is to, one, have two ladies running the show. We know HBCUs are so much better ran, so much stronger when women are in charge. And what a pleasure it is to see live and in person the transition of effective leadership from one hand to another. So, sisters, I definitely appreciate you. Thank you so much for your time this morning. Thank you. Dr. Walters, we will begin with you because you're sitting in the chair with a four million dollar gift. Talk about the concept in a season of giving to HBCUs, just how transformative this is for Tukalu. And what do you think it does to add or change the conversation about certain HBCUs always get all of the money? This is a big gift to a school that is as a powerhouse in its own right, but usually isn't in that orbit of other schools that get accused of getting all the money. Absolutely. We all know the story of who's getting what. And this is so special for Tukalu. To me, it says for sure, Tukalu is worth the investment. Having this honor for Dr. Hogan means so much as the first leader. She's made history as the first president, female president, and now she's making history with the first to have this large gift in her honor. So it means a lot to us. And I can't even put it into words. Our students, for those students who need that gap, we call it. You're trying to feel an unmet need for a student. This is going to go a long way for our scholars, and we are just grateful. And I can't think of a better person to have this honor bestowed upon her for her labor and the love she's shown to Tukalu as an alum and as a leader, as a president, as a leader in the community. It speaks volumes. And so we're excited. We couldn't wait to make the announcement to let everyone know that this is happening right here at Tukalu in a little place called Tukalu, Mississippi. Dr. Hogan, talk about the relationship between yourself and the donors to this gift, because that is an important thing that we always try to emphasize in profiles like this, is that gifts like this don't happen overnight. And they don't call up and say, let me give you all $4 million. This is a relationship that's been built on other gifts that have happened over the years and a relationship that you established with this particular couple. Can you talk about how that relationship got started and how you build to this kind of, I would say, transformative level gift? Yes. Thank you. Dr. George Wallastead and his wife, Dr. Julie Luss, have been friends of the college for a long, long time. I met them when I first joined the institution as an administrator. He had been giving to the college and there was a lapse in there. And I was organizing the Health and Wellness Center at that time and was looking for people who were friends of the college. And so I called George to see, to introduce myself and to see how long he'd been giving and why the lapse. And we talked for a while. But George's friendship with the college came from the Brown-Tukalu partnership. He's been involved with Tukalu since that partnership was formed back in 1964. He graduated from Brown in 1951. So we met and just struck up a friendship and he would come down to the college as part of the Brown-Tukalu partnership and he was a sustained donor to the college every year and substantially. So when I retired, he and Julie called me and said that they wanted to do something to honor my legacy. And we talked about the need for scholarships and what they would mean for Tukalu College and attracting, entertaining students and helping students to go through college and complete successfully without interruption. Because financial assistance is very important to the students we serve. I didn't know what level George was talking about because he said Tukalu is in his will, talked about that. And I told him that he said, where can I start? And I said, with the new president and her vice president for an institutional advancement. I said, everything's in order. You just have to tell them what you want to do. And so they did. He worked with them. And then Dr. Walters called me back in June to tell me that George and Julie had submitted their first payment of a $4 million gift to establish the Hogan Scholars. And we talked about the importance of, she mentioned the importance of establishing this and maybe putting it into endowment that would most impact the college. And my response was, I'm proud of this gift. I'm proud of what it means to Tukalu College. But however, you can, you arrange it so that it can have the best impact on Tukalu College's bottom line and can serve Tukalu College in perpetuity. We were all in agreement with that. So we worked on that and worked up the criteria for that relationship, for that endowment. But yes, George and I probably talked a couple of several times in a year just about different things, issues of the world, world affairs, the relationship between Brown and Tukalu, you name it. He's an astronomer, as is his wife. And because he had made so many contributions, both in the scientific community and as an humanitarian, we honored him by destroying the honorary doctorate in science and because he was deserving of that. And not to know him even better than, but just along the line, I'd always zip him a note during the year to see how they're doing and kept in touch with him and kept him involved with Tukalu College. And they are the type people who have invested in many spectrums of our lives in terms of whether it's the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, but they're interested in helping to build a better world for all people and to help America's playing field become a little bit more level. I often say about them is that they have lived their professional lives using the telescopic lens to view the universe from many angles. But what most impressed me is they use their lens of humanity to see how they can have an impact on helping us to create a better world that's inclusive, that's kind, that's fair, that's equitable. And that's why I applaud them. And I say that they are the real celebrated heroes in the story because without them, without their interest in their law for Tukalu College, not withstanding a relationship I had built with them, but the law for Tukalu College. And that's what must continue is how people believe in our institutions, see them as worthy of investments. And we tell our story and they can see that they can see the products that come out of these institutions, in particular Tukalu College. And George and Julie had been able to witness that in the emphasis that we were putting on how we actually educate our students for success in life, that they will be able to make that mark on a larger world and through leadership and service and all those kinds of expanded learning opportunities that Tukalu College is very good at providing its students. I was going to say let's back up and talk about that because a lot of people don't know about the partnerships between Tukalu and Brown, between Tukalu and Boston University. Tukalu has explicit strength in the sciences, particularly in the health sciences. Why do you think that people know it? Because obviously the universities, the college is here and thriving and people take advantage of those partnerships and go on to wonderful careers. What is it that you think that has allowed that to remain such a powerful thing that not too many people know about? Well, Jared, I always say that Tukalu College has been extremely blessed with great faculty. Great faculty really make great colleges. The faculty from its exceptions have approached teaching broadly and they've been committed to the ideals of education. And intellectualism and idealism have really been the drivers of Tukalu education so that when still in the students that they can become anything that they dream of as long as they're willing to prepare themselves. So long before the nation issued the alarm that America would lag behind if we institutions did not start sending more students to graduate school in STEM, Tukalu was doing that back in the early 1930s and the 1950s through every generation. You can find those people like the Dr. Edgar Smith and Dr. Deloach, you know, the Aaron Shirley's and all those people who graduated all through the line. You can go up into the 2000 with Angel Bird and so many others, Chance Jackson, just people who come there and they go into these areas and because first of all, Tukalu magically gives students confidence and that's truly important to success and they introduce them to a broader world and expand their world view. And that's also important. Many of our students come from Mississippi. Many of them have still in the 21st century have not been able to airplane but Tukalu realizes that it cannot give them everything in that campus environment. So Tukalu has branched out and formed these kind of partnerships. There were people on Tukalu College's Bowet in the 50s and 60s from New York who had relationships with Brown and they thought at that time at the really the beginning of the civil rights movement and all that expansion that it would be great for a Ivy League college university in the east and a small HBCU in the south to form a relationship and learn from each other. And that's how that's the genesis of that relationship and over the years it has grown and expanded through every president at Brown and every president at Tukalu College. It is important for me to note though, you know one of the things I said about the history of Tukalu is that all the persons who came before me helped to cut the path to Tukalu to last. And when I got there I looked at it. I looked at the things that work. I looked at the things that we needed to improve upon but I looked at the rich history of Tukalu which wasn't foreign to me because I had been a student there and said let's build on the things that really work at Tukalu. And when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do was to give the incoming president that kind of support and space, the space to build her own plan and look at those things that will work at Tukalu and be of assistance and not getting away. I think I publicly said that I would give my support and send my money without being asked but I would also wait to be asked for advice. I would not be there on that campus interfering with the work because we have to be supportive without getting in the way and that's what I think I've tried to do with President Walters and she has my number and whenever she calls me I respond and if I can be helpful I want to do that because it's not about this institution has to continue and you don't stop and start over. You've got to find those smooth patches where you just continue and but President Walters to succeed at Tukalu College means that Tukalu College will succeed and that's what supporters and alumni and everyone must keep in focus that it's about the institution always and that all of us kind of go but it's about the institution and we do the best that we can while we're there to make these institutions stronger and that's an interesting point Dr. Walters because typically it's tough to follow a long-standing president and the number one problem more than tough but it seems that that I wouldn't say difficulty I would say the opportunity almost to do that because you guys are working together and you are continuing a lot of what makes Tukalu so great. How has that transition been for you because a lot of presidents get get ran over by you ain't the last person problem but it doesn't seem that is the case that you know this was so interesting I came to Mississippi I'm a New Orleansian and I started working in Mississippi in 2012 and one of the first persons I learned about was Dr. Hogan as a black female and you know you're trying to move up into this field you're going to look at others who are doing it well and so I met her at a conference for women here in New Orleans and when I came here to start working I told her I said you know I've literally been stalking you you probably didn't even know that so I've admired her from afar and then of course when you come in and you're trying to understand your role you do get engaged in some things that is not very comfortable for you and I think that what Dr. Hogan and I have had to always have is transparency and trust and I feel like I can go to her and talk about any challenge and she will advise me and I've just done that and you know I'll call her and if she's not available she calls me back I text her and you know and we just go from there and not not long ago I said you know how can we get to some of these donors that are friends of yours because this is just one donor that's that's a friend of Dr. Hogan she has many and we want to connect to them and so I called her about that because because I need that I need her relationships that she's built over the years I need those people to know that Tougalou is still a worthy investment and and this has paid off by doing that you know to to have the Wallace teens give this gift so I support her and her endeavors and she's supporting me it does help to know that she will take my calls and won't avoid me and things like that so I feel very comfortable doing it what's the what does the future look like for Tougalou because again as bad of a time as 2028 it's very propitious it seems for HBCUs enrollment at several institutions is up given is up interest is up so there are positive metrics even in the in the midst of disaster it almost seems but at the same time 2021 is coming and that's when we're really going to know what what you know what what our test will be sure what do you think that Tougalou is is built obviously built to last but what does it take to make it built to grow or building it to grow um in 2020 2021 and beyond you know my thing when I came in it just came to my heart preserving and advancing excellence and that's that's the thing that I've worked from from day one you know I didn't come in trying to tear down what anyone had built I wanted to learn about what was built what was being put in place and then to build on that and to preserve that and I think that's what's going to carry us forward it's standing on all those principles and those policies and those programs and ideas that were here for very long so we know STEM is the forefront and so we are adding to that we're not tearing that down well so what we're doing we're adding environmental science and then because of our red thread of social justice we've added environmental justice we started a a center you know Dr. Hogan did this when she was here she had a social justice center we are building on that it's the Reuben V. Anderson social justice institute and because of the the the challenges we're facing today in America people want to invest in that so the Mellon Foundation gave us a $500,000 grant to do social justice programs so we are putting all of those programs into one center or and they're going to be our pre-law program which is very well known our public policy program and we've added leadership development because we know at Tougaloo we are growing leaders and Dr. Hogan mentioned that about building self-esteem but we want students to understand and as the it's not just enough to protest but we have to have some action behind that with voting we have to teach others about that teach others about you know affect policy and so the policy program is supported by an endowment that we're very proud of with Attorney General Eric Holder who is supporting that endowment with $250,000 so we are you know we're raising those those dollars right now and then USDA is partnering it with us we have our Congressman Benny Thompson who's responsible for us making sure we have a very nice very good strong partnership with USDA and all corn state we just signed another wonderful agreement a collaborative agreement with UCLA that program we're trying to model it after the Brown program our students will be able to go to UCLA in the summers with no tuition so you know we're just ecstatic about where we're going the future of Tougaloo is very bright and I say to the students every time I talk with them the road from Tougaloo College can take you anywhere you want to go and so these partnerships are very very important we're working on our cyber security program we have a cyber security advisory team that consists of Amazon Web Services and Deloitte and USC and Mississippi State so we're thrilled at the future of Tougaloo College and we think that we're going to really build on something that's already historic already prominent and Dr. Hogan we are number 14 we're trying to get into the top 10 of HBCUs so we're excited about where we're going the future is so bright I need sunglasses the last question is easy for you Dr. Hogan as an alumna you know to transition into an advocacy role obviously because you love the institution and you've seen what the inside and the outside of it looks like but what does what does retirement look like uh in in serving or fulfilling that role but knowing like I'm a president I know how to move these people I don't know how to do that without without the president in you being presidential and it's just Beverly Tougaloo College alumna well it is just Beverly Tougaloo College alumna I I'm always reminded that I I do hold honorific title of president emerita but that's uh and it's easy because I've transitioned out of many different careers uh into higher education and one of the things that I do is I take the value of what I've learned and in the memories that I cherish I was ready to retire so I'm enjoying retirement and I I have time now to to give back in different kinds of ways to many things that are important to me and there's nothing more important to me that has the list to the college but I am thankful that I know how to be Beverly and not president Beverly Hogan and I think that Dr. Dr. Walton's a test to it that it's not because I don't love the institution but I am rarely on that campus I don't have an office I don't come out to do research I don't do any of those things I come back to special kinds of things to support the administration to support the students and to be a part of the community of value and love so much