 Good morning and welcome everyone. Thank you so much for connecting on this week's weekly mentoring hour We usually begin with the word of prayer. So we'll do that and then after That I'll introduce our speaker for today and we will move ahead with our mentoring hour. I'd like to request Any of our students on the call today to please go ahead and lead us in a word of prayer Let's pray have any father. We just thank you for this hour of mentoring father We we as we commit this time into their hands. We pray that you'll minister to us through thy word and What we learn father we pray that we'll be able to not only apply it in our own lives father But able to to use it to be a blessing to others father We we pray for blessing upon our entire faculty and all the students here in the Bible College and Jesus's precious name We pray amen This morning, we have our very own Jean George one of our faculty All of you are familiar as she's taking our Christian counseling a marriage and family Courses and she's a trained You know psychologist and she will Today help us understand how we can help those with suicidal thoughts. So I just hand it over to Jean Jean over to you Thank you, Pastor Nancy. Good morning, everybody. It's it's a pleasure to be here Today we have quite an important topic that we'd like I'd like to Focus on because as part of our ministry as part of us meeting people even on a regular basis We may have come across those who Fall into this category of having Suicidal thoughts suicidal ideations probably people who you've come across who's who has a mental health issue of depression Or going through serious pressures serious concerns in life. So I Really hope you know, I know the the time is really short But in that 10 minutes, I just probably like to encapsulate certain Key points. I may not be able to bring up everything But key points on what we need to know and we need to understand as we deal with people So before we get started You know, I just like to before we get to that topic I just want to reiterate that it is important to know that God is the owner and the giver of our lives and In Jeremiah 10 23 it reiterates that that the way of man is not Himself meaning that our lives are not our own we do not we do not Hold our lives in our hands to do what we please with it but that life is a precious gift from God and is not to be abandoned or misused and We also recognize that God as our creator is the only one who is to decide when and and how a Person should should die as the psalmist says my times are in your hands I've just just bought this up just for us to really have an understanding that Suicide is is not is a violation of God's law for our lives God's desire and purpose for our lives and we need to recognize this before we get into the the topic as a whole so before we we look at How do we help people? I just wanted to Probably get a quick a brief definition of these these different terms So there are three terms that you know I'd like us to just keep in mind one is suicide and Suicide is defined as death that is caused by Injuring oneself or harming oneself with the specific intent to kill themselves or to die Suicide attempt is when someone harms themselves with any intent to end their lives But they do not die as a result of their actions It is an attempt that is made the intent is there But however the result may not lead to death The suicidal thoughts or as we may sometimes call it as ideations Can mean having thoughts or abstract thoughts about ending one's life or feeling that people Would be better off without you or it also can mean thinking about methods of suicide or really making Intentional clear plans to take one's own life So there are there are thoughts and there are ruminations about giving up one's life now before Before we know how we can support. I think it's important to understand that as spiritual leaders Each of us are uniquely positioned to help prevent suicides But but you know, I've kind of seen and you know, we probably also sometimes often hesitate to really embrace this role so And and very often we see that we may be reluctant to talk about this topic Because we don't know what to say and we are afraid that we may say the wrong thing But I trust that you know, these the 10-minute topic that we have this will really help us Rethink certain assumptions we may have about suicide Also prepare ourselves to have conversations about suicide and also recognize that We don't have to be counselors or we don't have to be therapists or psychologists to really discuss the hopeless feelings that people have and how we could really influence and Help people to make right choices about the life that God has given to them. Okay Now so to move on I think the first and foremost important thing we need to do We need to know before we can support is Needing to learn how to spot the warning signs very often You know people do give out clues or give out certain signs that they would like to End their lives and this is almost like a cry for help like a call for attention So being informed about these warning signs can often help us to support them Support especially those who may be thinking about suicide. So here are just some warning signs and there are basically we look at it in three categories in The way that they talk in the way that they behave and the way that you may observe their mood and Remember, these are not just in Please don't look at just one Isolating point as an indication towards suicide But you may you may really need to if you were to know any one of these signs Maybe probe a little more and that's what we're going to be looking at how we can support So just to add a little bit about what are some warning signs about the way they talk is They may speak about how they are experiencing unbearable pain or They may talk about how they are a burden to others and we see this a lot Usually a lot of people who have suicidal attempt bring about this that they don't want to be a burden To somebody else or they may have a talk about killing themselves or ending things things up They may discuss about not having a purpose to live not having a reason to live Oh, they may talk about feeling extremely trapped feeling Feeling as if they are chained in this cloud of of heaviness or this cloud of burden So these are some things that you you can look out for that they may that they may actually express to you What do you look at in behavior in behavior? Some of the key hallmark signs that you would see is how they withdraw from activities. They may withdraw from Social settings withdrawing away from work. You're actually seeing that You're seeing a stark difference from where they were Where where they were to where they are another behavior that you would notice is the Usage of certain substances may be alcohol or drugs or Getting getting into some form of an addiction to keep themselves away from having having these thoughts There the other behavior that you could see is acting recklessly Being taking a lot of risks that that that could tend to self-harm or They could be looking for way to kill themselves, you know Maybe searching online for materials or means of how they could kill themselves Another behavior that you would notice is an isolation from family and friends Something that usually people do say especially when they are extremely Depressed is their inability to sleep. That is they're sleeping too little or they're sleeping too much another thing that we've noticed is Some of these people visit or call people to say goodbye They kind of ensure that they keep things in order Especially if they are let's say breadwinners of the home or you know, maybe maybe someone who has a Responsibility for the entire family. They may write up a will they may close a bank account Keep the money somewhere for the for the family to use so certain behaviors that indicate that they are trying to wrap up things So that you know that the things are that that the families or people who are the leaving behind Don't feel burdened to carry on certain activities again writing notes and Sharing that it isn't anybody's a responsibility If if they were they were found dead, you know So these are certain behaviors that you look for as warning warning signs or also that sometimes there are Significant mood changes that they will be and this can range not just Feeling depressed or feeling sad, but it can even move into rage into irritability into aggression Into a sense of humiliation or it can come in anywhere in mid where there is anxiety where there is a loss of interest So collectively if you look at all These three these three These three areas that the way they talk the way they behave as well as their mood could probably be ways that that really gives you an understanding of What you should be looking out for now moving on it is it can be difficult to talk to someone Who you may think is suicidal and sometimes it's hard to know what to do to begin To help someone who is suffering But taking action is always a good choice and there are simple actions that can really help You to be there for someone who's experiencing suicidal thoughts or even recovering from an attempt to take their life So the first step is to ask and find out to ask and find out Whether the person is in danger of acting on suicidal feelings Now often and I think I've heard this very often that if you ask them They will probably you know feel like doing it even more But the evidence actually shows asking someone if there's suicidal can actually protect them by asking someone Directly about suicide. You're actually giving them permission to tell you how they feel and let them know That they are not a burden So people who have felt suicidal will often say what a huge relief it was to be able to talk about what they were they were Experiencing so it's important to be sensitive But it is to really ask some questions and I've just put out a couple of questions here You know so that we we probably you know have an idea maybe certain clues of what we can ask So one how are you coping with what's been happening in your life? Especially if you know that there has been a significant life event This is a question that you can ask Do you ever feel like? Do you ever just feel like giving up? Are you thinking about dying? Are you thinking about hurting yourself? Are you thinking about suicide? Have you ever thought about suicide before or tried to harm yourself before? Have you thought about how and when you do it and again a very direct question Do you have access to things that can be used as weapons to harm harm to harm yourself now? These questions are important because it it lets you it it lets you Come to direct questions and you know direct pointers to really understand now If someone does let you know that they are having suicidal thoughts, it's important to take them seriously you don't Have to be able to solve their problems But it is to offer support and really encourage them to talk about what they what they're actually feeling and that Leads us to the next action, which is a very simple one, which is to listen, you know, so if the person If the person Is able or knows that they can share what they are feeling with you a They actually talk a lot more. So it is usually better to listen and and Jen and respond with open questions and not advise and bring about opinions. So sometimes when we hear someone Someone talking about suicide the the first thing that comes about is how can I how can I get them to? Think otherwise so so so we make we may we may bring about Insensitive remarks that really put them off from actually sharing sharing more So it's important not to argue with them or even minimize their pain or offer advice It's just important to listen and to be present So the important thing is to let the person know that you will support them Without judgment as far as you are able to the next thing that you would Like to do is really as you are listening and as you continue listening One of the important things to do is to really determine the severity of their suicidal thoughts Now if a conversation indicates that there are suicidal thoughts, it's really crucial to understand what that Severeity is so there are four factors which really indicate that the person may require intervention Needed right away one is intent that is when they say I want to end my life They they are intentional about doing it when there is the second one is a plan That is they know how they are going to do it They have planned out. What are the what are the ways that they will do it the means the means is Having access to what they need to do this. Maybe maybe it's some material. It's a weapon. It's some Substance that they have kept within themselves the means and the fourth one is the timeline That is they have picked out a date and a time for this to happen So they they're planning well ahead of time. So there are four factors the intent the plan the means and the Timeline so these are Important because even as you're talking you begin to understand the severity severity of it now once you have determined that it is next to notify which is to To let some to get support So if someone is passively suicidal, that means they don't have a plan. They don't have a means They don't have an intent. They don't have a timeline It is it is good to encourage them to seek treatment and maybe offer to contact Some professional help But it's important to stay involved and follow up regularly to offer that kind of a support But if you see someone is actively suicidal It is okay to breach that Confidentiality by letting them know and share this with the person that you would need to enlist Maybe it's a support of a family member or someone to ensure that you keep them safe and to instruct that person Or that family member one to remove all kinds of means that the person may have access to which may be knives, which may be Which may be any kind of acids, you know toilet cleaners Medication or or anything that can potentially potentially cause harm So that's that's important that you do and then following up to ensure that they get the support and the help that they need What do we do after that is? Yes, we continue we go ahead pray letting the person know that God cares about them and their situations now even as I'm saying this we do this after Hearing listening being there Not being judgmental having notified maybe like like at the end of a conversation Right and that you know asking that you'd like to pray for them and asking for the Lord's Lord's help And here are some suggestions of things that you can pray for that You know They would know how much God loves and values them that God would bring them to a place of healing and comfort and hope That they would have the strength and the courage to seek help that they would know that God is in control That they would you know that that this this would be a beginning a new chapter in their lives that God would really open up things that is That that he has in store for them and of course anything else that God brings into your heart in your mind To let the Holy Spirit guide you and the last thing that we could that we need to continue doing is to stay connected so people who are suicidal are often desperately lonely and Social isolation is a risk factor for death by suicide So suicide prevention begins with caring enough for others to really notice that something has gone wrong now So to ensure that you're always in connection to just to maybe check on how they're doing whether they have been able to seek that support and help whether they've had They have been to a doctor maybe speaking the word to them encouraging them getting them back to maybe Things in in in the community in church maybe at work ensuring that your connection continues with them It's also as a church What can we do to really prevent suicide and and I just and I've just listed three points I know there may be much more but just three important things the first one is to be able to deal with misconceptions now About suicide and faith often misinforms those who are actually dealing with suicidal thoughts and many people believe that depression is a sign of a lack of faith And this can cause guilt for those having that That condition so maybe a simple advice to just pray or have more faith May may not may may look like a very sympathetic advice But but that could could come off as as something that they feel extremely even more guilty about The truth is that even christians as believers we're not immune to mental health challenges and faith You know may and just having that good faith is not a guaranteed shield Against any kind of a maybe a depression or an anxiety So mental illness of any kind is not an indication that a person isn't following god And it doesn't mean that you know god can't use their condition or things that they're going through for his glory The second one is to encourage that they get help So churches can combat the stigma by actually encouraging those wrestling with depression or anxiety To seek care that's appropriate to their needs So maybe to have a list of qualified counselors or cicatrists or any other kind of experts that can be helpful And of course encourage them to get help from From the from the church or from ministries that they may be involved in so that they can be together And the last is to bring hope so as christ body We as the church is responsible to demonstrate god's love to those who are hurting And we can seek out those who are struggling and make those efforts to listen and actually offer encouragement So we can provide help in any any any practical way also. We can pray with them also, you know to Looking for supernatural healing to really ask god to infuse that hope back into their lives and also really asking god to Give them the grace to deal with With the challenges that they may be going through and also leading them to the right kind of options So these are specifically three things That that we could really focus on To just end I have a small One minute audio clip of someone who was in counseling sessions with me This is not somebody from from our circle and I've taken their permission to to play this to you But there is no specific details of their Of their of their personal demographic demographics, but I just wanted you to hear what this person had to say I Gene I'm so sorry to interrupt you the volume is It could be Louder No, it's it's it's we can't hear you or you're the person very well Okay, all right. Um, I I don't know how to do that Um, then I guess maybe I could send it as a clip later probably But uh, I think it's at the highest volume here So I'm not sure if I'm All right Then maybe you could just play it and we can uh, all of us could probably just increase the volume on our end So we'll go ahead and listen to it. Uh, anyhow, and then you can send it also. Sure. Sure. I'll do that. Yeah. Thank you Yeah, uh, just a minute Because of this And when one Usually in all good intention that the worst person here will Say you have a lot to do Think about the family. It's not the loved ones. You're leaving behind Uh, nothing is worth this and such and Trust me the person is not in a frame of mind to Then I was in that Best thing that I heard I understand and it's okay. And that was the turning point To start dealing with that and gathering the courage Yeah, so, um, so just just to um, uh, you know, and I think you've heard it from the person himself about how It was just important for His listener to just be able to be there to be in that pain to be Present in all that they were going through because it actually helped them to work through and Uh, you know work out of that. So this person, uh, who who actually gave this this clip um Was going through a very very serious event and had actually His uh, those four things that I said the intent the means and the timeline They at the plan they were all well Established and he had even booked his tickets to a certain destination He was going to he had planned it all well But just that conversation where there was a place where he was understood He was listened to without judgment actually helped him turn around. Uh, thank you so much for your patient listening Over to you, uh, pastor Nancy Thank you, jean, uh, truly insightful I know this is a subject that we all think about and we do come across Loved ones friends who may be going through The you know the phases that you spoke about and having suicidal thoughts And I'm sure there are a lot many questions that Many of us have so We'll just open up this time for questions and uh, I want to invite all of us to please go ahead You know jean is on the call. Uh, you can go ahead and ask your questions and Let's just have a An enriching time of discussion here You may either unmute And ask the question or even uh, post it on the chat and uh, I'll I'll keep reading it out to jean So, please feel free to do it either way Hi jean. Good morning. My name is jincy. Thank you for the session today It has come at a really important time yesterday. I met three young men From the slums that I work who are One has attempted To die by suicide three times already Culturally there is the context of First of all the age the adolescent age Combined with the the fact that there's an existing usage of substances drugs and alcohol at a very young age and exposure to very toxic family dynamics and You know culturally it's also lauded to go through with it So I found myself when I reached the location the parents saying don't You know, don't even ask him that you know It was very difficult. I was put in a very difficult situation to You know work with the young man. Um Had to explore that topic slowly by You know saying that I've come here to pray for you And then lead into that topic Uh, very indirectly than directly. I know that direct is the best I could not explore what were the trigger warning signs But of course, it's a I know the backdrop has been given to me. That's a backdrop of breakup And uh immense pressure and he thought of three and and I think the last they found him was lying in a garbage bin Um, so there's a lot of hatred for self Uh and their life. So yes, if you could And the other one was a threat suicide A swallowing a lot of pills at one go Um, so what is that threat suicide is what the family was saying? Um You know was was is that a term like threat suicide? um, the third was uh, yeah, there is a person who was with the family and He high risk behavior which resulted in a huge accident loss of A livelihood and extreme desperation because huge loans huge commitments pushing him to a place where he doesn't know Uh, how to get out So, yeah, those are three Really severe and they have mentioned the intent they held on saying if I don't get a job today Tomorrow would be my last bike ride and I'm going to take that's it. That's going to be my last bike ride. So The need is very severe and huge Yeah, thank agency. That's a loaded question But maybe I'll I'll try and uh, bring about Maybe whatever, uh, I remember so the the first and foremost thing like you did say sometimes to be able to Discuss this with them indirectly But vis-a-vis directly now I do agree sometimes when when they are backed in a culture and a family that You know hounding over them and really wouldn't want them to discuss this or you know the fear that you know If there's a discussion then you have led them into that I think we need to be sensitive about that kind of a culture, especially When they are not in a clinical setting I'm sure that this is as part of a community that you are helping and You know, so that that I I believe that is to be done with utmost care But I think the first and foremost thing Jensie in looking at all of these three Young men is one is When there is someone who cares enough to really listen to build that rapport I've I've noticed that just saying this one sentence You are important right now to me Just saying that can often just hold back That you know that certain impulse because you've just mentioned to them that even though the entire world Is against them you are sitting right here in front of them and you are concerned and you are You know, you are there to support and to help that in itself often can work with them moving away this desire to Self-harm or to commit suicide and something that I personally do at the end of you know Maybe maybe a setting like this Maybe in a clinical setting it would be probably far different but in a setting like yours Is to actually quickly look up You know, give them Something to look forward to maybe your own presence to really say, you know tomorrow this time I really want to come in and spend some time with you some more just to hear you out Right so can we meet here the same time tomorrow? So what you're doing is actually helping them to extend that impulse right so that And if you look at suicide it comes as a result of extreme emotional pain Extreme emotional dysregulation that brings them there So the first and foremost thing is to help calm down that dysregulation and that is a One of it is just showing that support showing that concern Showing that they are important and and you you are concerned and you want to establish a relationship with them To help them in the future because you know, maybe saying things like you know It's it may not be possible that you may get a job in the next one hour, right? So you you really want them to It's like delayed gratification. You're saying, okay Let's let's delay that and let's look at how we can build our our rapport our You know our relationship together So that's sometimes just letting them know that they are important and that you want to come back and see them And that's why I said stay connected to be able to say you know I'm going to come back tomorrow at this time to to hear you out Now that's that can is one thing that can help and then probably the steps that go after so the first First step is probably just staying connected Listening and ensuring to let them know that you are You you you're concerned you're there for them and they are important to you I may not have addressed everything but I hope that answers your question ginsi. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you Yeah, thank you ginsi for that question and thank you gene for clarifying If anyone else wants to ask anything, uh, you could so please feel free to do so Hi gene. This is nisha Um, I wanted to just check with you. Um A friend of mine has has a son who's about 25 And he's been Very isolated and I'm not really in touch with him at all Uh, I see I've seen him as a little child, but over the last few years He's been intensely violent intensely intending to through, you know, sort of Kill himself and Completely locked up to the extent that he's he doesn't even come out So there's no place of access to him but recently Through some means the lord has opened a door for me to at least communicate with him and it's he thinks I don't know about it I was wondering if I should just Stay in touch From the point of view of what you mentioned He did share an unwell and I can't help you with this particular assignment You know, he did share that and if I'm well, you know, so I was wondering what might be a suitable Tack of approach in this kind of case. I have a very tiny opening And I'm you know, just wondering if there's anything that I could do or What you would suggest in this case I only have access to him through a whatsapp now Okay, thank you. Thank you, Nisha. So the very fact that he's responded to you is in itself A good thing that he is He is able to relate so Because it's it's it's at its nascent stages. It's it's really really Just the beginning I'd say take some time to just keep connecting just connecting at a at a At a regular basis, maybe one important thing One thing that you could probably start like an opener is If you've known him previously and you've known him now and you've seen a change Actually saying that, you know, I've noticed that You know things haven't haven't you know, I I haven't seen you in in a long while or I haven't seen you doing such and such And and I was wondering why is is there something that I could help or support with so maybe Some opening lines like that where he he would probably bring out Maybe pieces of what he's going through and right like picking up clues and really heading on with conversations that way Maybe here since it's just whatsapp Maybe may not be a great idea to ask directly at this point of time But to build rapport and get that opening of like like this question And I've seen you at this at this stage What's going on and I'm kind of concerned would you like to share something I'll be open to support. Yes Okay Thank you gene. Thank you so much. Yeah Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Nisha Thank you gene for answering Nisha's question So gene, uh, I'll pose a question while you know, we wait for others to ask so you said That it's it's like you just mentioned that at a nascent stage or the early stage So, how do you tell like, you know, where someone is that if it's just the beginning of them considering these thoughts or if they are way into Planning their suicide. How how can one tell? Okay, so I just probably want to correct when I went by nascent stage to Nisha I meant nascent stage in her connection with With him that it's it's just probably the beginning, right? Okay, but um, let's look at how What would you need to look out for? So as I said, you know, there are there are some things that we can keep our our attention to One is, you know, especially if they have gone through significant life events So it could be the loss of a loved one loss of a job loss of money Something that has that has that's been a crisis over them now That's that's usually one of the triggers for some form of depression some form of anxiety to start on The second would be withdrawal Generally when when people get into depression get into Get into anxiety the first thing that you will see is they withdraw from That anything to do with it with a social setting so withdrawal and again and the third one is yes mood How how how do they appear? Have you noticed them over time being quite? Sad or being, you know pervasively anxious these are certain signs that you could actually look out for and So in in training whenever We're trained to to question Suicide even if they come in with mild or moderate depression or even if there is a sense of anxiety or a small sense of panic attack Or even if there is an acute event that has happened, you know, we kind of In our in our training where we are asked to ask that because it's important to do that to You know, they may be only be contemplating it But nevertheless, it's really important to ask and have share that so If you look at it greater, I think these would be some of the signs that you would look for Sure. Thank you gene. That's really helpful. Thank you so much Good morning, everyone. Good morning gene. I have a question for you How do you handle or deal with people who Attempts suicide to, you know, kind of threaten their family members so that their family members don't tell them Correct them. So they use it as a way to threaten them so that they are left alone I can they can do what they want and get their way Thank you All right. Thank you, Selena. Now. Uh, there is uh a distinction Between someone Who who emotionally black nails and that's what you know in our terms we may call it is an emotional black nail Where you threaten to kill yourself if there is something that is that's not done Now this can I mean I know families often can just can can really be You know Be shaken by by some of this because it continues to happen There may be minor threats that actually take place We would we would look at especially those who threaten and to some form of Self-harm now self-harm may not be an intent to die. It's probably an intent to Release their emotional pain and some of that we would see through Superficial cuts on the on the hands or on the legs or some parts of the body That is not intended to to to die But intended to take away emotional pain and this this category of conditions is what we look at a personality issue This is when there are problems with the person With their personality because they are unable to cope With the pressure unable to cope with what with what is demanded of them So how do families cope? I think the first and foremost thing is it is important to get help to get support because when you give in You're not actually helping the person and when you don't give in neither are you helping the person because it tends to become very cyclical it becomes a cyclical pattern so It's important that they get support that they get maybe counseling to ensure that whatever is Distressing the individual, you know, it could be deeper things of their personality The way that they have read life the way the kind of self-talk that they build and maybe it's self-esteem Issues that help them to feel that unless and until everyone does things for them There isn't anything left in them. So these could be very many deeper Issues that need to be dealt with which may be families or people Lay people may not be able to delve into integrator. So in conditions like this, it's important that they get Support they get counseling support To deal with their their inner struggles to deal with their inner psychological And emotional issues that may come about which definitely has an impact on the spiritual side of it So it is to get help to get professional help Thank you, gene Yeah, good morning gene. This is Ramesh. Yeah, I have a unique question I know of this person who's in mid 20s Who runs around to every one of his his friend and problems that they face, especially when they are suicidal He goes to the hospital. He goes spends money on them takes care of them make sure that they are brought back All such thing. I am sure if I'm right more than five six cases He must have attended in the past three four years But what I'm seeing is the kind of reaction of that person At times I feel getting into depression and also suicidal So I was wondering whether it is you need to do something to prepare yourself to go be a Person who would counsel or take care of a suicidal person Or what kind of prayers are covering that you need to be under so that you do not Get into that emotional bonding So my gut feeling was saying that it is possible. This person must be really Following the whole conversation or whatever they have gone through. So when he has a small issue also He also gets into that depression and also suicidal very rarely So I really don't know what to say about it, but I was wanting to know how do we address this So I wasn't very clear the person that you said goes and helps a suicidal himself Brother, yes by himself. Yes. He goes and helps the person who has attempted suicide He's gone to the hospital stayed with them two three days one person has gone to icu Stayed and made sure day and night left the job and just stayed and prayed with them Help them and brought them back and they are all fine But this person is getting into serious depression nowadays and at times giving up hope Every small thing the person is just living. What is the Is it worth living? So I mean what I'm wondering whether it is some kind of a satanic attack Or is the person has gone so naive and they are just You know lost their Balance in a homeostasis of their mind Because of continuously attending to more of this person has more of suicidal friends If you have to look at the spread more than 50 percent of them are either attempted suicide or Only talks about depressive persons or suicidal persons Yeah, so I I think If if the if you're seeing this as a pattern where he's going in helping someone and then gets into a phase of depression Probably it's what we could we we generally may call is is a recurrent depressive disorder That is you know depressive episodes happen over and over and over again in short spans of time And if when there is uh when there is a phase or an episode when he is much better Is probably when he is helping but then again, you know, it seeps seeps back into him So it does have actually Talking to someone who is suicidal can actually be very very emotionally draining even for a person who doesn't have depression So I can imagine what it may be for this young person Who's helping out? But but really absorbing a lot that is going on because he he may be You know a survivor himself at some point of time So to to get that to get that break to get that Help that um, you know, maybe there are times that he may need to step away To ensure that he's taking care of his own spirit his own soul before he's able to actually help someone in turn So if that's someone that if it's a someone that you know It may be good to have a conversation of of how he can balance this help In you know, you know balance his help and his own self-care. So I think that's something You know, maybe a maybe a thing to really focus on how he can balance self-care and balance This thing of helping others through through their issues Okay, okay. Thank you sister Jean. Thank you. Yeah, thank you Brother Amesh and Jean will have time just for one last question So I want to request linden who's raised his hand to please go ahead and ask the question linden That's a praise lord. So I have a Couple of things first thing I missed the first 10 minutes of the session. I really apologize but um After which when I joined I heard as Jean mentioning Even someone in faith can have or can go through depression. So it's really hard for them To hear when people say no, just pray. So they need support and So in that context, so someone was in faith born again christian anointed with all his spirit and And now they say, you know, they're going through depression and they have suicidal thoughts And you know, they are in a family relationship and they leave the family You know and leave for the parents house I know not not once but You know a few times And no stays with their parents for a considerably longer amount of time Uh, so we have seen this in our family And when when we get to speak with uh, you know, that that that person's parents They say, you know, she says, uh, she she could commit suicide Uh, you know, if she had to, you know, travel to her spouse's house So in such cases, how do we deal with it? Could this be relational or personality issues or is it really depression or is it, uh, you know, uh How do we deal with it as as christians or as ministers? Yeah, uh, thank you linden for that question gene. We have just a minute left So if you could briefly share but you're free to maybe write a post on the main audience later on Yeah, sorry to have interrupted. Thank you. Uh, so uh, linden the the fact is even when you're assessing someone for any kind of an issue if you look at a medical issue, you do a holistic assessment, right? So similarly When you are looking at why a person probably, uh, you know, is presenting himself with depression you look at a holistic approach So you look at whether it is has any kind of clinical basis to it whether there are family issues Whether there are personality issues whether our financial issues You will look at it holistically and it may be difficult because I don't You know, I personally don't understand the the person in the case may be difficult to say this are the pointers But um, what we are called to do is to ensure that we we look at all approaches So I'd say physical I'd look at emotional I'd look at their personality. I'd look at their social support I'd look at their spiritual to really see what exactly it is So if so we can deal with the source of the problem or source of the depression as it as it is Thank you. Thank you. Jean and London if you have further questions follow up questions, please do post on the main audience As we've run out of time. We will have to close right now but just a big thank you to Jean and You know, we know that there's so much more we want to know about this but it's great that we got started Discussing these matters. So thank you everyone. Hope this call has been insightful for each one of you Have a blessed day. God bless you. We shall connect again on the next call next week. Thank you. Bye for now