 Good evening. Thanks for joining me live in the not British Library, but we're there in spirit I'll be roll out of the cultural events team and tonight's event is part of our season accompanying the the library's exhibition Unfinished business the fight for women's rights, which we hope is reopening very soon Please buy books for tonight's events from the links just beneath the video that you're seeing You can add questions here as well There'll be a Q&A later and also your feedback because we love to hear from you And can I just mention a couple of upcoming events this week? We've got tomorrow night Communicating without a space with the legendary Andrew yin in conversation with Brian Cox and on Wednesday night James Baldwin's America and it's urgent lessons for today And that's with Eddie S. Claude, Jr. But tonight a conversation I've been waiting for for ages And springing out of the Bengali work of utopian feminist science fiction Sultana's dream and it's with a dream panel. Sorry, but they really are my chair is the multiple award-winning novelist and anthropologist to me and now who's Scorchingly anticipated next novel the startup wife is out in June Pre-order it right now. Thank me later So to me I'm gonna let you introduce the rest of the speakers over to you now to me more Thank you so much B And thank you to everyone at the British Library for supporting this event I'm so thrilled to welcome you all this evening for a session that is so close to my heart It's a tribute to the great feminist icon writer and visionary Rokea Sakawa, Hussain or Bigum Rokea as she is known Bigum Rokea lived and wrote at the turn of the 20th century She was from Bengal, which during her lifetime was part of colonial India and it's now in Bangladesh She was known for many things but her two most important interventions were Sultana's dream the novella she wrote while learning English as a surprise for her husband It was published in 1905 and the Sakawa school Which she founded in 1909 after her husband's death and which was the first formal institution for Muslim girls education in Bengal Bigum Rokea spent her entire life in a kind of lockdown The women of her generation were confined to the Zanana the women's quarters of their homes And it was against this confinement that she raged her entire life But she rages with wit warmth and compassion and nowhere is this more evident than in her masterwork Sultana's dream I'm joined this evening by three incredible writers all of whom share a connection with Bigum Rokea's legacy So i'll just introduce them now Monica Ali is the author of a collection of short stories Alentejo Blue and three novels the universally beloved and book are shortlisted Brick Lane My personal favorite in the kitchen and her third untold story And much to the delight of her fans around the world. She has a new novel out called love marriage in 2022 So watch out for that She's of course a grand to best young British novelist a fellow of the world society of literature and the Orwell Prize And her writing has been published in every publication you can think of Um, Lisa Gazi is an award-winning film maker stage actress activist writer And she's the joint artistic director of Gomala Collective She directed the award-winning documentary film rising silence about the sexual violence survivors of the 1971 Bangladesh War of Independence The English translation of her Bengali novel row rope Translated by Shabnam Nadia is entitled hellfire and is out now published by westland books Her current project is her feature film a house named shahana And finally nasima b is a performance poet Producer and creative practitioner She's a trustee for Manchester's young identity an advocate for contact theater And is the project coordinator at Manchester of Bangladesh women's organization on onla She's currently working on an audio commission with new creatives north entitled salt And her most recent residency was belgium's museum knocked where she spent 24 hours with 14 artists making performance work But first before we begin a taste of the story where all this began Nasima is going to read the opening lines of sultana's dream with music by alia hossain from the archives of the british library Along with this image of the indian ladies magazine where sultana's dream was very first published in 1905 One evening. I was lounging in an easy chair in my bedroom and thinking lazily of the condition of indian womanhood I'm not sure whether I dozed off or not But as far as I remember I was wide awake I saw the moonlit sky sparkling with thousands of diamond like stars very distinctly All on a sudden a lady stood before me How she came in I do not know I took her for my friend sister sarah Good morning said sister sarah. I smiled inwardly as I knew it was not morning, but starry night However, I replied to her saying how do you do? I'm all right. Thank you. Will you please come out and have a look at our garden I readily accepted her offer and went out with her I found to my surprise that it was a fine morning The town was fully awake and the streets alive with bustling crowds I was feeling very shy Thinking I was walking in the street in broad daylight, but there was not a single man visible Some of the passes by made jokes at me Though I could not understand their language. I felt sure they were joking. I asked my friend What do they say? The women say that you look very Manish Manish said I What do they mean by that? They mean that you are shy and timid like men Shy and timid Like men It was really a joke I became very nervous when I found that my companion was not sister sarah, but a stranger Oh, what a fool had I been to mistake this lady for my friend She felt my fingers tremble in her hand as we were walking hand in hand What is the matter dear? She said affectionately I feel somewhat awkward I said I am not accustomed to walking about unveiled You need not to be afraid of coming across a man here. She replied This Is ladyland Thank you Thank you so much, nasima. That was an amazing reading and you were hearing music from alia hussein um, so I want to turn to you first lisa because um out of all of us, um, you know monica nasima myself um, you're the only one who uh went to school in bangladish and I wanted to ask you to tell us a little bit about how what Begum rukia's legacy is in bangladish Where you learned about her and what is your relationship to her in terms of as a writer While we were growing up in bangladish, we did not know mary wilkins will Willstone craft but we had our very own rukia sakkot hussein she her radical feminist vision shaped our Very idea of feminism and we we Why we were while I was in school when I read about her and read about her journey her life Although it happened she was born Some more than 100 years before But her struggles felt very real her her journey her obstacles her sufferings her frustrations Felt very real and And we could relate to her journey and that and that You know that kind of Inspired us hugely that how she transformed her life and how she transformed her entire You know a womanhood and and and and make it possible for herself and and for other women In her age and beyond Um She she was a huge thing. She she was all about breaking barriers She was she encouraged women to dream She encouraged us to imagine and like a bull walk towards Towards it to make it a reality So she she is She is a beacon to us And and when I was uh, you know reading Sultana's dream There's so many things that that was absolutely awe inspiring If you know what I mean about his The sci-fi kind of you know that that twist my science and and and it's so so Well ahead of her time, but one particular thing was really very You know encouraging for us and inspiring for us To make us believe that our mind our brain is powerful We didn't know that before we we we we Here we used to hear Around us that you know, don't cry like a girl or don't run like a girl, but she She told us that you know the idea of In capacitating men not by strength Not by force, but by brain has been an eye opener for us bingoli women and and And we could we could see that we could see that even now when men get threatened to see a girl with a book A woman with a pen So that is the most important thing and that that was still kind of Still may make me so proud of her that to kind of instill that idea that that thought That our brain is powerful. It is a radical thought even now So that that that shaped our you know, our idea of feminism in Bangladesh, I think And how how do you think Rokea became such a national figure because what I find fascinating is that you know, it took You know, it took the campaign to get the statue of mary wilson craft in newington green It took them decades of work, but we not only have statues of begum Rokea everywhere. We have Rokea sharoni. We have streets named after we have buildings We have a national Rokea day on december 9th, which is the anniversary of her death. How do you think she became Such a mainstream national figure Because we relate we can relate to her even now You know the struggle she had then The same struggle we go through Now Yes, the women are have you know advanced in position in education, but it's very um Very handful of women most of the women in in in south asia are still You know denied their rights to education denied their right to simple thing, you know, simple freedom That to go out for a walk is a huge deal And and this So we we know where she she she was coming from we know Her anger we can relate to her anger. We own her anger And and the way she You know broke barriers For herself and for us inspire us to to do even more This day and age. So I think that because she's still relevant in so many ways in our lives in south asia that That of course she will be like this For generations to come until we get there and I don't think she will be Um irrelevant ever Thank you, Lisa. That's really great. Um, monica if I can turn to you um, tell us about your literary inheritance When did you encounter roquea and do you do you tell us a little bit about how you relate to that bengali side of you? And and especially that literary inheritance Yeah, well my literary inherit inheritance is really Western I don't speak bengali. Don't read bengali. So necessarily it has been Yeah, I grew up on the western canon. Um Anything and everything I could get my hands on I was a very voracious reader Jane Austen Tolstoy lots of classics Narayan Nipal as well were sort of early favorites, but really in terms of bengali literature um That I didn't have access to it apart from Tagore Of course because you know, we had that in translation um, so I think it's very different now for younger writers coming through because um, they can see that Bangladeshi origin um Writers are making their mark. So, you know, there's you there's Lisa. There's Nadine Zaman. There's um Asa and there's there's so many dear Hyderama. There's so many writers coming through now that um, You know, I felt a bit sorry for my younger self I didn't have that um That sort of model in front of me and I think it's still so important I got a letter. I got a School girl she was 14. She wrote to me via my agent just last week in fact and she'd written a short story because They'd had an extract and her GCSE English class they had an extract of brick Lane to look at It inspired her to write a story and she wanted to write to me to say That all her life she'd been reading extracts and books With which you had never identified and she said it made me so proud and so happy nothing She said nothing in her life had made her so happy as to see her own culture recognized And that really were yeah, so it really sort of warms my heart um that I mean you Were so important to writers who came after you like me and so many others and I wonder um, I mean, which I'm sure feels like a great privilege to you, but also I think that um that there also is a sort of Burden related to that and you wrote a little bit about that and when you say I feel sorry for my younger self um I wonder um, so you so you wrote this essay called Simply writer and if I can just read a line from that you said um If you're a writer of color, you're only supposed to write about what people imagine To be yourself and that self is not an imaginative creative artistic or intellectual self That self might be labeled as Asian writer or Bangladeshi writer or BAME writer But it is never labeled simply writer that would be true privilege Tell us about what inspired you to write that essay and and where you are with that now I think what inspired me to write the essay was actually um an acquaintance saying to me somebody I bumped into I hadn't seen for a while Something along the lines of have you heard that random house is got this new scheme For BAME writers black and Asian minority ethnic Writers and you don't even have to be able to write well if I'll just publish you anyway Sort of you know in that mode of isn't it ludicrous, you know, what kind of privilege? Um, BAME writers are getting so that that was the trigger for for writing that and it made me reflect back on my own writing journey and thinking um Why is it that I haven't been able to write for so long? Why can't I not finish anything? And I think I'd just become sort of disheartened and depressed by uh the idea that There were certain things that were expected Of me and that if I did not Fit that mold then it was seen as me trying to run away from something So I actually I did an interview recently. It was an interview via email with a publication here I've been perfectly friendly journalist perfectly well meaning But one of the questions was your new book is billed as a story of two Two cultures. Are you returning to something you sought in professional terms to escape? so You know, I know Why he's saying that and I don't think he means anything Terrible by it, but to me What is that thing that I would be trying to escape? I mean my ethnicity Right, whichever way you look at it whether you say acceptations or brand or anything else it's Are you trying to escape your ethnicity? And to me this is sort of an existential question because This idea of having to be one thing or another While being of dual heritage Feels like a kind of obliteration of the south. I mean I am both. I'm not one thing or another. I'm both and therefore I do write about different things. So Um, that's a rather long-winded answer to your question No, I've been meaning to I wanting to ask you this because I I also feel like Do you wish you had been angrier before? When people kept asking you book after book out the three books that came out after bricklay when they kept asking you Why are you writing about portable or why are you writing about, you know, a michelin starred kitchen in london? Why are you writing about? you know White chapel instead of bricklay. I mean do you wish that because I feel like now If that had happened now Then there would have been a lot of outrage around that, you know And people are just angrier in a good way and and do you wish you could have just been like that's really racist Short answer is Yes, I do but looking back I think In some ways I was naive Or kind of colossally stupid to think that I could have the same privilege as a white male writer who is allowed to write about anything He wants and is credited with great imagination for doing so It wasn't even a case of thinking I just assumed and I just assumed of each book. Okay. Well People will Get over it get used to it And also there is this huge barrier to to expressing anger which is It's just sour grapes. It's just a chip on your shoulder You don't have the talent that's You know, so no one could ever accuse you of not having talent Oh, that's sweet of you to say but so those those sorts of considerations I think stopped me saying any of that also now that I've seen other writers Standing up and saying those things and I don't think we are we can all be talentless So even if that could apply to me that I just didn't write well enough I certainly do not believe it of other people In similar situations. So now I feel kind of empowered to Speak my mind a little bit more freely. I'm ready. I'm ready for you to like tell some reporter off Um, nasima. I want to turn to you now. You're a poet and a performer Um, and tell us about I mean, I'm guessing you probably didn't read um, sultana's dream in high school By the way, she did write that in english, which is why I got to read it young because I unfortunately Don't read bangla literature in bangla much to my parents dismay Um, so nasima tell us um about your literary inheritance tell us You know where or if you encountered rokea and and where your kind of activism and your sort of inspiration comes from Um, I hadn't come across rokea and I hadn't come across this piece of work before up until um Be sort of emailed me and then called me up and we had a conversation about it and um, I think for me it was just a reminder that Feminism comes from your home like as a Bengali woman for me feminism starts at home Um, it starts with my mother it started it started with my sisters and seeing just just growing up here and seeing that their struggles and and celebrating themselves um and being themselves regardless of what um, what western notions of feminism imposed and stereotype on us. I think um I guess reading that was just a reaffirmation of of feminist icons always existed um within bangla dash and and also within women of colour and Yeah, it it's it's an epic story. It's an epic story and um If only it would if only it would happen. I think on the video I smirked a little bit when um the bit when um They said there's no men here. It's just it every single time I've read that bit I've looked at the story a few times now Um, and every single time I come come across that line. I just thought god What if women rule the world how different things could be and for me like I said, I've seen that I've seen women ruling the world. I come from a matriarchal household Let me tell you I know some of my sisters are watching today. Um, and yeah, I thrive I thrive on women telling me what to do and I love it Well, listen, we would love to hear more of uh from you. So would you would you read some of your work? Absolutely. Um, unfortunately, I can only do one poem. I was asked to choose and it's really hard to choose um, I had I had a couple of things but I've chosen this one because I guess to me this poem is sort of um My own feminist exploration and celebration. Um, and and what those things and what feminism means to me It's called antithesis riot head first cataclysmic button nose lipped thick face a disorientation from fingernail to kneecap brain matter to boredom a prodigy seemingly a head tie on hands holding head disapprovingly left eye on small of back a universe in thigh gap She knows how to sit still when the world quakes in her palms and you are stood Silhouette silent. How do you name a woman that you see yourself in? A woman parts you part human Looks like Earth stopped spinning in midweek planned a revolution in her sleep an abortion for the keep through democracy to the wolves and told it to belong Can you hear the heartbeat of birds? Can you see tong leap from words? Is she saying enough? Model citizen coming for her dividends shoulder overlook You can't see what is staring at you if you break back Did you know she dreamed this? pandering to panellope makes you feel irrelevant irrelevant in reverence Why do you cock your head to the side and does your nervousness send tremors down your spine? Do you hear in time is her wake too religious for you? Holy like harmony and holiday hum. Hello kitty trigger happy put your elbow back above forearm Dislocating your body parts cannot amount the pain of birthing your human right When mothers spill tea they are rushing Taste is perceptive touch is eclectic Harbour happens in head and belly and I'll be there if you let me Thank you That was so beautiful and I'm sorry we didn't have more time. In fact, I'm looking at the clock now and we're already Almost up to our questions. I wanted to ask you Lisa about your novel Ro Ro which was published 10 years ago in Boston Bangla and it's just come out in English I found the novel so compelling. It was so dark It had so much humor and yet there was just so much pathos in it and I I wonder whether you can talk to me us a little bit about Um, did you set out to write a feminist novel? Did you set out to write a novel that would upend our ideas of what bangla that she women do and think about? and how they act Or not When when I started writing novel I mean No kind of didn't have any agenda didn't have any That I I want to write a novel from a feminist angle It didn't happen like that at all this story I was carrying this story With me for for some time and I I was compelled to write about it Though it is hugely dark, but if we see if we read and if we kind of You know uncover the layers of it. We see that how deeply frustrated those women were and how and And the point they are at What drove them to that point and how they kind of Ended up being there and that is that is that has been like this for For ages, you know that that oppression that patriarchal oppression and even In a household, there's no men Petrarchy still is at work. It doesn't have to be Because it is so ingrained in our psyche in our mindset that we we become an agent Be woman be women we become agents of patriarchy and that is what That is what I have seen in my life and and that is That is what, you know, I was compelled to write and it it came quite naturally I mean you make it sound Kind of worthy, but it's actually really funny and there's actually all these very Strange and you know, she goes it's about this woman who turns 40 and she's allowed to leave her house for the first time And we talk about lockdown And she's imprisoned by her mother. She's not imprisoned by a sort of bullying patriarchal male figure The man in the story is essentially completely powerless So although you may have had all these kind of, you know, very strong feminist ideas behind the writing It is in fact An absolute joy and you're sitting on the edge of your seat wondering what is going to happen to this girl Woman, she's leaving her house for the first time and the whole novel takes place over the course of one day And it's absolutely nail-biting funny dark really really weird Um, and it made me realize that when you write it, I I don't know. I feel like you wrote the novel in bangla You didn't write it in english and that meant necessarily that you were not trying to Mean these women to people who had possibly never met them And and I wonder whether you can talk a little bit about what it's been like to Read yourself in english and then if you would read us a little bit from hellfire for just a minute That would be really great Shall I read first? Um, it's up to you Okay, let me read first and I I will come to your um So I will uh, just just a couple of lines in bangla and then uh in english by the translated by Okay, lovely paid no attention to beauty She tipped over to mucles shahab's room and peaked in he was fast asleep She could hear his light snow the three of them peaked into the kitchen and saw who are comfortably asleep on a mat Love his heart was going a mile a minute The three of them held hands and crept to the front door Beauty held her breath as she pulled it open. It creaked on rusted hinges In the silence of that afternoon, even that small noise froze them like trees struck by Lightning beauty was the first to recover. Are we just going to wait by the door? Come on silent But with love The bubbling through their bodies like boiling water the three of them snuck up to the roof As soon as they opened the door and walked out their laughter exploded A crow flew off the ledge Lovely would never forget that moment when they stepped onto the roof that excitement the joy She could no longer remember how long they had stayed up there All she remembered was amma's face like a nightmare Are standing their stock still I mean the the entire idea of this uh This novel if you ask me what is the what is the one thing that that That I I I kind of I tried to you know shout To have to claim Is freedom It's all about freedom, you know, uh, because um, if you think about If you think about it, um, we women Especially in south asia and the and the countries even even actually everywhere It varies the degree varies, but uh, we are denied freedom in every aspect of our life There's a boundary a line that is drawn For us not to cross So freedom is a dream for us and uh, and when we come to know the taste of the very freedom We can know we can we can we can we can never go back to a place Where we Cannot have that and that is what is um Is with everyone with every character in that novel a lovely beauty Even for it that kind of She did she was denied her life. She was denied to uh to have the freedom to Leave her life The way she wanted to she was forced to accept her life And then by doing so She became she became us so kind of She became a monster to To show everyone that what is she portraying? What is she? You know, she she's trying to show the world that her life is perfect And that is what she is she was imposing on her daughters Thank you, Lisa. Thank you for that reading. It was beautiful. I love this book so much. I want everyone to read it Monica when you write women characters do you Think of them. I mean when you write them. Do you think okay? I I there's something I want to say about the condition of being a woman As opposed to when you write a male character and your your your main male character in brick lane was so beloved And you wrote him so affectionately Although he was also in his own ways but violent and problematic and and troubling So When you do you think about your women characters differently? Do you do you want to say things through them in a way that you don't with men or do sort of are you sort of even handed? Well, I'd like to think that I'm pretty even handed And I don't I don't set out with an agenda as such that would be I think to me that would inhibit my writing so if I were to set out to um a kind of uh a gender or a Sort of political program that I want to write to I don't think I'll be able to write anything creatively so It's not that I don't have an interest in those issues. I do hugely but I let it come From the character. So I always start with character and I always try. I mean writing to me is a bit like method acting You have to sort of sink into the role. You have to walk a mile in that person's shoes as much as you're able to do so and to find the kernel of humanity even in those characters who You might not warm too naturally. So it's all about you know Compassion and connection for me the writing Well, that definitely comes across. Um, would you read to us a little bit? Oh, what do you want me to read? Oh, um, well, I mean if you I I thought we were all going to read but Okay We definitely we definitely don't have to um I so I think this question of The politics is so interesting. Um, because certainly as I said your male characters are written with a tremendous amount of affection um, and and it's easy when you have feminist politics to sort of Make your, you know, your women characters or or your male characters kind of like, you know, sit on a soapbox and and announce those and you managed to not do that and yet um, that relationship between Your characters in brick lane was a deeply feminist parable um, and and Done in the most subtle way and I wonder um, I mean Did you did you have that scene in your mind at the end of brick lane where she goes ice skating? Was that because I I remember it so vividly Did you think like I'm going to tell a story of this woman and then at the end I'm going to sort of set her free Or did that just come sort of naturally? Uh, you know, I I really struggle to to to know what my end scene would be Right up until I wrote it and I remember I was actually I can remember really vividly for some reason that I was doing the washing up Standing at the sink when I realized watch That the end um scene should be And it was you know as soon as I thought about I saw it as blindingly obvious She she'd had this fascination with ice skating and and actually a bit a bit like lisa that that image to me was about freedom Or for her it was about freedom, you know the sparkles the the free flowing movement the um, yeah total liberation from her ordinary life, so I got it sort of then and now and the the scene kind of wrote itself after that, but I didn't set out with that Didn't set out with that. It's unforgettable I think a lot of a lot of people around the world have that scene sort of seared in their brains. Um, nasima tell us um about uh, sort of when you perform your poetry and and that that poem that you read us was so vivid full imagery and um Are are you sort of speaking to a particular audience? Are you trying to tell them something when you combine some of your activism with your poetry? Is there a particular message that you're trying to convey there? I think I'll have to agree with monica and what she said um sort of earlier When I sit down to write I just want to create. I mean, I just want to write a poem. Um, I just like words a lot I've been a very very Big reader since I was since I was very little and I just like words. I like playing with them. I like how they sound um, a lot of a lot of what I a lot of what I do with with my work is um Try and say one thing but sometimes me and the other and I think that's what a lot of us a lot of us Writers do we try and sway from what we're sometimes actually saying? Um, and yeah, I think for me writing The activism happens when I write whether I want it to or not But I don't set out to be an activist or to be a feminist or to write about racism or Islamophobia or any of the things that We're constantly asked about as as women of as female writers as as women of color As Muslim women or whatever whoever we are those things are just left I'm just a writer like like like richard the white man who's who sold out, you know, I mean, um Yeah, I think I think I just I want to have fun And I hope that whenever I write a poem or I'm performing that people just come on a journey with me And if anything makes you it makes you think and and it sticks out. I hope that makes you do something about it Um, but I just I just have a little bit of fun and I hope that was that poem was fun But also it was quite serious. Let's be real. It was quite serious It was it was all of those things and it was beautiful. Thank you Look, I'm going to turn to the questions because we have loads of questions And I think, you know, we can all agree that the fact that we can't do this live is a huge tragedy And it would have been so much better life But one of the things I really there's always that awkward moment when you do a live event where nobody asks a question For the first minute and the chair has to kind of sit there and look through their notes and trying to fill the silence I don't have to do that because you guys in the audience have asked loads of questions. So I first of all nur jahan begum has asked to all the speakers Where are you now and how have you used the coronavirus lockdown and your creative practice and why? um Who would like to answer that question first? I'm going to let you answer because you I know where you are And it's the most exotic location of us all so you can go first Lisa Oh I think maybe lisa can't hear us. So maybe nasima or monica one of you want to answer that? Okay, I'll take that then. Um, so i'm in london. I've been here the whole of lockdown I actually used my time in The lockdowns last year pretty productively because I finished a novel Which um is the first in a decade. It will be out next year Um, was there another part to the question and was that it? I'm in london. I finished a novel Well, that I mean that's huge because most of us just like baked banana bread and like try not to You know be too mean to our kids Um, I'm going to go on to the next. Oh nasima. Do you want to tell us where you've been? Are you in manchester and have you been writing? Yes, um, I'm I'm based in manchester I have been writing a lot of my work is like this Which is really yesterday I hosted a show which was really really good, but it was no audience It was when I make jokes that aren't very funny. No one's gonna laugh at them in a not very funny way And tell me that they're not funny. Um, so it's it's really awkward sort of talking to a screen a lot of the time Um, but I always like to go and have a look on look look at feedback on social media and I hope that Um, there's lots of it Great. So okay, I'm gonna go to the next question. It's for lisa if you can hear me now What inspired you to direct rising silence? I found the topic difficult to discuss with family in Bangladesh People seem to want to forget them Um, I'd like to apologize if this is discussed in the film. I haven't been able to find it Where can I watch it? So tell us about um, I think that you know, I've had this response too from um, a lot of People who didn't grow up in Bangladesh Who say that they find it very difficult to talk about the war or even people in Bangladesh Particularly difficult to talk about the sexual violence that happened in 1971 so if you can if tell us really quickly um, a little bit about the film and You know try to answer this question about these unspoken stories Um, I I came to know about these women Uh, we're gonna women sexual violence survivors of the liberation war of Bangladesh from my father When I was 17 years old and since then I wanted to meet them and I couldn't find them anywhere and they Remained statistics and and honorific to me But I wanted to know the person behind that statistics So when I first Saw them in 2010 And I I I saw them at 21 of them together And I don't know why I wanted to kind of save their stories because Because there there's hardly any documentation about them because It was destroyed after the night after 1975 and the founder of the nation was assassinated. They were just thrown out in streets overnight and and the documents were burnt burned down So there's very little documentation there out there So I I was I was craving to know them and when I started And when I spoke to them and when they shared their stories After that for for a couple of years, I was just sat with their interviews But then one of them died And that hit me so profusely. I realized that you know When a birangona woman dies her story dies with her And that is that is one thing I couldn't bear So I tried to Try to hold on some of their stories and that is that Is why rising silence You know happened Thank you, Lisa. There's a question for Monica Um, hi Monica for Fariha Chaudhry asked as as a British Bengali girl born and bred in the east end I just want to say thank you so much for highlighting this very real and raw experience of many Bengali women When first migrating to any foreign land I've read a lot of reviews and found that many of the brick lane community itself Were against the concept of making such a story come to life When filming the movie I can understand why due to our culture still being quite male Dominated and protective of reputation. What were your views on this reaction from the community? And how did you overcome this critical feedback? Okay, um You know, I had um another uh letter from Uh, a Bangladeshi British writer who is hoping that it that book will be published next year And it was really exactly on this topic Saying that they were worried about what the community reaction would be and can I share some advice or Tell them about my experience with negative reactions from the Bangladeshi diaspora and You know, it really saddened me because the perception Seems to be that The reaction was overwhelmingly negative when in fact it was To my experience it was overwhelmingly positive Uh, there were a couple of um, it was a handful of older conservative males who Admitted that they hadn't read the book, but they didn't like the idea of the book Perhaps they'd heard that A woman has an affair in it. I I really don't know. I can only guess at the motivations specifically around the filming They were quoted in the garden newspaper As saying that they didn't want the scenes with Leeches falling into curry pots It to be to be filmed which you know, there was no such scene in the novel and there was no such scene in the book. So, um You know, it was really a a confection of a couple of British newspapers rather than a reflection of the reaction of Bangladeshi heritage people, you know, that book took me all around the world and everywhere I went I met people with a Bangladeshi heritage and they were all just, you know Uh, so supportive, but I would say that the dominant Attitude was one of pride actually Absolutely. You can certainly vouch for that um, was it I mean What was it like seeing your Book turned into a film? I mean, was that a very surreal experience and seeing these people come to life Who had only been in your mind up until that point Yeah, I mean, I I really liked the film. I think um, if there's one thing I would have done differently I would have kept the riot scene That that occurs towards the end of the book. I would have kept it in the mood. I think there was not a lot of tension when Shahana ran away, but apart from that, I think Sarah Gavron And Abby Morgan did a brilliant job It strikes me now though that that probably wouldn't happen that you would have a a white writer and a white professor But anyway, that that's that that's another Story, I think they actually did a really great job It was wonderful um We have a question from Tamina Begum She asks when do you feel most free in writing? um Nassima, do you want to answer that and I would love it if all all three of you would answer that When do I feel most free in writing? My favorite time to write is probably in the morning Um, I I try to do this thing called morning pages. I'm sure a lot of writers Try to do it and try to do it consistently. One thing about me is that I'm not consistent. Um, I try and write every morning um, so I wake up Brain jump and have a bit of a free write and just get whatever it is that I'm thinking whatever I'm feeling Whatever thoughts I have that are in my head if I've dreamt something if I've had a nightmare um Sometimes that's the best way when you're not really thinking about writing That you get to have some of the most exciting things come out in your writing and I usually Those are the things that I pick. So I'll pick maybe a line or two that are striking and I'll start like that with some poems It's great Monica or Lisa I want to tell us when you feel most free I I don't have a particular time of day or um season or anything like that You know, it's I think um Nassima was really saying it and just in a different way than perhaps I'll express it Which is you you're always seeking to get into that flow state So, you know that state in which athletes talk about, you know, they're not thinking about their hand-eye coordination or whatever They're just doing it because there's some sort of Race that comes into it that you know, that is the ideal state for writing It doesn't always happen and you can't I can't always make it happen Either I think that all we can do as writers is just keep practicing Just keep doing the hard work. Just keep honing the craft and if you do enough of that then hopefully You're able to recognize those moments of grace when they come That's great and I I I think that it's a random places. I mean Ideas come and and I have lost so many ideas like that, you know while riding On a tube or or on a bus or having a shower and I said, oh my god, it's going away I need to I need to take it down and and then When I when I start writing It doesn't matter whether if it is morning time or night Just when I feel like writing it. I I just do it. I don't have any particular time that I enjoy writing more or less. Yeah Um, okay. I have a question for nasima from Selma Imran How do you relate sultana's dream as a young person growing up in a post-modern and free society? I think they're talking about her having written From a position both historically because she wrote, you know over 100 years ago and also in her particular social context Of basically having the experience of being confined Um And and how you relate to that Having not experienced that although I think we're both experiencing we're all experiencing a form of confinement now but certainly, um the world has Changed at least a little bit since her day. So How would you answer that nasima? What an exciting question? Um, I think I feel like I'm really lucky because I grew up in a different generation than than you guys. Um, and I for me one of one of the things that I sit so, um One of the things that that is really close to me is the fact that I grew up Um in a household of real islamic tradition rather than any cultural connotations Um, I don't know how to read or write bangla. I can just about speak it because of my job um and because because of my family and I feel like in my in my in my household, um We grew up with such a strong islamic islamic ethos and because of that. I was able to be free um because I grew up and I and I knew what my rights were from a very young from having a very From being a very young young girl. Um, and also having um five older very bossy sisters and and my mother as well just sort of always Advising me on how to be and and and what to be but also allowing me to To be who I want which is is quite quite an amazing thing because there's not many Um, Bangladeshi women like us who are artists and who get to do this and that is a real privilege. Um But yeah, it's down to coming from a very liberal family because of having such a strong um islamic ethos in my household Well, it's really inspiring to hear you talking about um your faith as being the thing that sort of Frames your politics and and almost makes that more possible And I think for for Begum Rokea. I think the situation That she found herself in which is living in a society where because she was born into a muslim household She was more confined and she really raged against that and it was possibly it was not possible for her to choose that identity as a source of empowerment and as a source of liberation It was for her a symbol of confinement and I what I find really incredible about her work is that she wrote about this without attacking The religion or in even the culture she talked simply about rights and she talked about access to education And in Bangladesh we have um, you know for a very poor country one of the highest rates of girls education And the parity between boys and girls going to school Is much higher than in all the other south in in the other south asian countries And I think it's a direct result of Begum Rokea. She is a national icon. She talked about The education of girls as being An issue that was out of a national importance And somehow because of the way she wrote the accessibility of her work The humor the warmth The way that she made those arguments so compelling it they she almost turned them into national policy Um, and I don't think I've ever seen a writer have an influence on a feminist writer have as much of an influence on national policy She didn't do it by standing on the streets and protesting. She did it by writing and she did it by writing fiction Um, especially in sothana's dream. So it's really inspiring to hear you talk about your faith And how it's become a sort of beacon of political activism for you Um, so I just wanted to ask we have two more minutes if either Monica or lisa wanted to say any final words about rokea about Feminism in your work And how she may have inspired you in your lifetime in your work or even just tonight talking about her Shall I go first? Please um I mean Us with women from, uh, you know, bangladeh, especially Rokea actually Has shaped our our our thinking So deeply That we we we start seeing What we did not have We start realizing the importance of education Importance of of of rights for women Because we have seen that in in our household confined confinement for rules different rules for boys and different rules for girls and And we we started seeing and realizing because of rokea because of legum rokea's powerful very forceful fearless writing that This is this is This is what we deserve It is not something that needs to You know, it needs to be Needs to be given This is our right and and that that that feeling Absolutely, we we Got from rokea and we are so I mean I can talk about myself. I'm so grateful to her because of her How our path was was in front of her because she taught us how to dream She taught us how to imagine and and she also taught us how to claim it And and practice it in our lives. So yeah Hey rokea Thank you so much lisa. Um, do you want to close this out monica? Well, I just want to say what a fantastic Evening I've had listening to all of you and listening particularly to the Things thank you the theme. I love rokea's sense of humor. I love her The artistry with which she draws this World it's a science fiction world with the solar heating and the flying cars It's fabulous. It's fantastic. She's got so many great ideas in there, which are still ahead of their time I'm glad that she's been such an inspiration for the education of girls I love her idea that girls should not be married until the age of 21 Which I think this I might have gone back to that one, but you know That's something to aspire to as well Thank you so much monica. Thank you lisa. Thank you nasima You all just like lit up the virtual stage. It was such a pleasure Thank you to the wonderful audience for your amazing questions. It was really A delight and thank you to the british library and I hope you'll take the spirit of fighting spirit of rokea with you everywhere you go Thank you for having us. Thank you Thank you