 I declare business today on motion 1b849 in the name of Alex Johnson on new psychoactive substances need assessment for Tsayt. That debate is to be concluded without any questions being put. I invite members to speak in the debate to please press the request to speak buttons now or as soon as possible. I call on Alex Johnson, Mr Johnson, seven minutes to open the debate, please. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. The life of an MSP rarely goes quiet, but if there's one time of year when people have better things to think of, it's between Christmas and New Year. That's why last year I was surprised to receive an urgent call in that period. It was as a result of that that I found myself attending a packed public meeting on our growth. The purpose of the meeting was organised by local community activists to highlight the concerns about new psychoactive substances, the so-called legal highs, which were being used, especially among young people in the area. One of the major concerns was not just the potential effects of those products, but the fact that they were so readily available and a number of retail premises in the town. Since that meeting, things have come a long way. A campaign group was formed on our growth, followed by others in Montrose and Aberdeen. Those groups decided to work together, harnessing social media, and subsequently joined with other similar groups south of the border. It's an on-going and constantly evolving problem. The manufacturers can quickly change the chemical make-up of those products, meaning that they are always one step ahead of the law. The actual effects of those substances and, indeed, the prevalence in our communities can be hard to pin down. That's why this needs assessment for Tayside 2014 and the large-scale survey on which it's based is such a welcome contribution to the on-going debate on this very serious issue. New psychoactive substances are designed to or are claimed to mimic the effects of already existing illegal drugs. The range of adverse effects of taking those substances can include palpitations, agitation, vomiting, seizures, headache, chest pain, insomnia, sweating, vomiting, hypertension and delusions. Worse still, the NHS Tayside reports states that users have experienced mental health impacts such as paranoia, anxiety and psychotic symptoms while under the influence of those substances. A worrying long-term issue is that users have reported dependency developing while on NPS, tolerance of those substances and withdrawal symptoms. As is so often the case, the effects can also make users vulnerable when they become confused and lacking in self-awareness. With such a wide range of deeply concerning effects, those products may well find—many may find it astonishing—that they can be purchased from retail premises in our towns. That gives the substances a veneer of legality, which masks the potentially appalling results of their consumption. They are sometimes sold as plant food, sometimes as bath salts or even incense, yet too often toxicology tests show that they can contain a cocktail of potentially harmful substances, some of which might already be illegal under the Misuse of Drugs Act, leaving the purchaser and the seller open to legal action and a criminal record, oh, if only it happened more often. Of course, there are also knock-on effects on public resources when things go wrong. According to the report, in the majority of instances, assistance was sought from the Scottish Ambulance Service, where the number of incidents involving NPS has increased consistently from January 2012 onwards. As we know, help is also regularly sought from accident and emergency departments, GPs and mental health services. The growing awareness of the dangers of those substances is to be welcomed, but clearly there remains much to be done. Opportunities exist to examine the reporting methods of incidents where those substances are suspected to have been taken, also to look at ways users or potential users can be educated about the risks they are taking, and to keep reviewing how organisations such as the Scottish and UK Governments, Police Scotland and the NHS work alongside key partners to maximise awareness of just how dangerous those substances are until such time as the legal loopholes are closed and it is finally made illegal to sell them. I find it reassuring that the results of the survey are not only reflected in discussions with professionals and community groups, they also very much reflect what I was first told at that meeting over a year ago and have consistently been told since. There was an expressed wish in the survey for additional help and support to be available to those who take NPS by most respondents to the survey. The majority wanted there to be raised awareness of the dangers of and potential damage associated with NPS, with emphasis on the requirement for greater education. Respondents also wanted to see greater availability of support services for NPS use, with some suggesting that readily accessible drop-in services or a dedicated NPS service. There was indeed a con— Thank the member very much indeed for giving way in his opening speech. He said he was looking to a point where it would become illegal to sell them. Is he suggesting a more robust licensing system at local authority level? Alex Johnson? As the member will be aware, it is not appropriate for me to make requirements of government during a speech in a member's debate, but it is important that the UK and the Scottish Government move forward together to ensure that each Parliament can take through legislation to deal with those areas for which they are responsible. That includes action by the Westminster Parliament to make those substances illegal where that is possible, but also action through this Parliament that will enable local authorities and police forces to take greater action on the ground to close down those shops that have been identified. In conclusion, I would very much like to pay tribute to the grassroots and community campaigns that sprang up in response to the growing concern. Their voices have been heard loud and clear, and they continue to move towards their ultimate goal of closing those head shops and banning the so-called legal highs that they sell, making sure that they get them off the streets. I welcome this report, and I see it as being hugely influential in the campaign. I commend the authors and those who took part in the survey for the work that they have done. I move the motion in my name. I now call on Graeme Dey to be followed by Anne McTaggart. Four-minute speeches are thereby pleased. Thank you, Presiding Officer. The NPS needs assessment for TASI report makes informative reading, and I commend Alex Johnson for bringing it before the chamber for debate. It would be impossible to cover every relevant aspect of the report in four minutes. I want to focus on ease of access to NPS and what is being done to disrupt that in the part of TASI that I represent. Although there are 650 websites across Europe selling NPS, the report indicated that not only did most people first experience these products either through friends or so-called head shops, on-going supply after that introduction was predominantly through shops. Accessing NPS directly from shops in the first instance rather than the internet was by a margin of six to one. The ratio when it came to subsequent on-going uses is around four to one. There is painful real-life experience to support that. Angus woman Laura Mackay, who lost her brother Michael to NPS abuse last year, made a very telling and touching contribution to a recent newspaper article on the subject. Refuting suggestions that head shops are doing nothing other than providing the same service as is available online made the extremely valid point that if people want NPS they are not going to wait for an internet delivery if there is a readily available supply close at hand. The report highlighted the influence of the presence of head shops in our communities, revealing a widely held view over the role that ready access plays in NPS and the techniques used by those premises to encourage purchasing. It specifically suggests that the fact that so-called legal highs can be purchased from shops gives a legitimacy to them. Interestingly, it says that there is an apparently, and I quote, strong appetite amongst NPS users and people who know users to ban head shops, reasoning it by removing them from their midst. Temptation would be reduced. The undoubtedly of a point is that, as of the 34 NPS seized by Police Scotland across Tayside between May and July of last year, 21 are known to be purchased from one of seven head shops that were operating within the region at that time. The good news is that we are seeing some of those premises weaving our communities. Although the control premises in Nigel Don's constituency remains open, both shops in our broth have closed their doors. That is down in no small measure to the work of Police Scotland. That is a hugely challenging area for the police to deal with. In the absence of tried and tested paths to deal with those who bring those substances into their communities, they are having to think out of the box and they are doing just that. Around a year ago, I was, as the local MSP, allowed to sit in on a Police Scotland mini conference in our broth, at which officers from Strathclyde met up with colleagues from Angus to compare approaches to the problem. That struck me most of what I heard and, indeed, the answers that I received to the questions that I posed were the determination of officers to tackle this matter head on. In that regard, I commend absolutely the action taken in early 2014 by local officers under the command of Chief Inspector Gordon Mill in seizing more than £2,600 in cash from the owner of a shop selling NPS in our broth. Those officers took that action with no certainty of being backed up by the full force of the law. It was therefore heartening for them and surely to be welcomed by this chamber that the Crown Office supported seizure under the Proceeds of Crime Act and for which it was subsequently granted, setting a positive precedent and one that proved to be more than just a shot across the boughs for those peddling so-called legal highs. For the headshot in question, it has now followed another which was set up in our broth and closed its doors. Presiding Officer, this chamber all too often hears criticism levelled at Police Scotland and their approach to certain issues. I hope that, on this occasion, we can unite in commending the efforts of Police Scotland and Angus in seeking to rid our communities of ready access to NPS and support absolutely Chief Inspector Mill when he told the Abroad Herald newspaper just before Christmas that the supply of those substances from shops in our towns and in ways that entice young and vulnerable people to experiment and consume is morally reprehensible and should be stopped. The seizure of that money has attracted media coverage but it is only the tip of the iceberg as far as the work being done by the Police, along with the Procurator Fiscal and Trading Standards in the area of Scotland that I, Nigel Don, Alex Johnson, Alison McInnes and Jenny Marr represent. Much of what is going on as with the shaping of potential future approaches to making life, if not impossible, then the least extremely uncomfortable for the traders and NPS understand the way it takes place away from the public gaze. I understand that an individual from Angus has recently been charged with eight counts relating to the trafficking of NPS, which, if the case proceeds to trial, an ensing conviction will surely send the strongest possible deterrent message to those who are peddling NPS within our communities. I am sure that members from across the chamber will be watching how that situation unfolds with interest. I am particularly pleased to participate in the members' debate on the report produced by the NHS Tayside into new psychoactive substances due to the fact that I previously worked in and around the area of addiction services and I thank Alex Johnson for securing tonight's debate. Although there is much media and political interest in the new psychoactive substances, currently there is very little robust data on prevalence or patterns of use making it difficult to access the level of need for health prevention interventions. Even though I try to keep myself up to date on the area of addictions, it was not until a meeting in the cross-party group on drugs and alcohol in this place invited agencies, including Glasgow consultants, specialising in the area of NPS and its treatment. That was pretty horrific, to say the least. He gave Blogue a Blogue account on his day-to-day work with some of the young people that had been involved and came to his hospital for treatment. Not only was it traumatising for the young people, but it often led to death, but also for their parents to be watching that process. However, the appearance of novel substances is not new. Until 2009, most NPS emerged that were typically sold on the illicit market and was an area of limited significance. The open sale of NPS marked the start of what is now called the legal highs market. That was facilitated by advances in technology and globalisation. The internet provides a platform for information and wide availability of NPS, which combined with ease of distribution and delivery has also a significant impact. Those factors, together with changes in the price, purity and availability of similar traditional illicit drugs, created a perfect storm for the NPS market to establish itself both in Scotland and in the UK. The range and rate at which new substances appear means that we need to understand and respond differently than what we have done in the past. NPS is designed and produced to mimic the effects of illegal drugs such as cocaine, cannabis and ecstasy, albeit that they are created so that their chemical structure is different and as to avoid being controlled under the current legislation. In the past five years, since the introduction of European wide commenced, the number of new psychoactive drugs has continued to grow. The pattern for use in Scotland is much higher than among our European counterparts. There is very little robust data on the prevalence of NPS in Scotland. However, according to the national records of Scotland, there were 581 drug deaths in Scotland. The report, produced by NHS Tayside into a new psychoactive I'll be as well just saying NPS in 2013, found that NPS was to be a potential contributor to 60 drug deaths in Scotland. Legal highs will become an even greater problem in the future, therefore the Scottish Government needs to take steps to establish a clear message in our schools and among the wider public of the dangers of NPS. NPS has also implications that result in the cost to the society. The total economic and social cost of illicit drug use in Scotland was estimated in 2006 to be just under £3.5 billion per year, with heroin holding the largest share of the market. In conclusion, new thinking and a refreshed approach to the issue are timely. I hope that my colleagues will join me in commending the work of the community groups and support agencies that raise awareness of the potential dangers of NPS. I, too, am grateful to Alex Johnson for bringing forward this important issue to the chamber and for the work that he's done on this matter. Comparatively, little is known about the use, impact and perceptions of new psychoactive substances or NPS. That's why research such as the Comprehensive Assessment by NHS Tayside compiled on behalf of the three local alcohol and drugs partnerships is so valuable. I was impressed that it drew upon the expertise of professionals, sought the insight of community groups and collected some 700 survey responses, one of the largest such exercises ever conducted by the Public Health Department at NHS Tayside. Engaging with 120 people with direct experience of using NPS is particularly worthwhile in illuminating. Their experience and perspective is essential to developing evidence-based responses. The report will assist in monitoring local trends and identifying appropriate harm reduction messages and measures. Other members have already highlighted some of its most significant observations—for example, that people are most commonly introduced to NPS between the ages of 16 and 19—that almost 60 per cent of those people would always take those substances alongside others, from alcohol to cocaine, and that many have sought emergency medical help for acute mental and physical symptoms associated with NPS use, such as psychosis, paranoia and seizures. I was also interested to read in the report that there was a strong appetite for so-called head shops to be banned, both among customers and a wider public, as Graham Dady said, believing that it could reduce temptation. That reflects the views of a number of my constituents who are troubled by the emergence of those shops on their high streets. As the public face of an otherwise shadowy international industry, shops in my north-east region, in Aberdeen, Arbroath and Montrose, have understandably attracted attention on being the focus of significant public concern. They are unmistakable. One even opened just a couple of doors down from St Andrew's Church, drop-in centre, for people contending with alcohol and drug addiction. That led last year to the formation of campaign groups such as Arbroath and Montrose against legal highs. Indeed, people across Scotland are understandably asking how retail premises can openly display drugs, paraphernalia and sell untested psychoactive substances. Despite the professional-looking packaging, those buying NPS are often oblivious to their legality, strength, purity and effect. Just because they are sold as legal does not mean that they are safe. Police Scotland advised that analysis of drug-related deaths in Scotland in 2013 revealed that NPS were found to be present in the person's body in 113 cases. An NPS was found to have been implicated in the person's death in 60 of those cases, as Anne McTagar mentioned earlier. Premises in Tayside were recently investigated by the police as part of Operation Caronate, a local response to the trafficking, distribution and consumption of NPS. That led, as we have heard earlier, to thousands of pounds being forfeited under the Proceeds of Crime Act, and the evening telegraph reported yesterday that the owner of three shops has said that it is unlikely that he will continue to sell new psychoactive substances. I am sure that my constituents will welcome that news and its testament to their determined campaigning and co-ordinated action and the determination of the police to take action on that. Indeed, the assessment and recent events in Tayside prove the importance of local partnerships, a multiagency approach to NPS involving the police, the Crown Office, health services and local authorities and trading standards. However, my constituents are also looking to both of Scotland's Governments to ensure that the law is effective in the face of this new, reckless and volatile industry. That is why I am pleased that Liberal Democrats in the UK Government recently led a review of NPS and that the Scottish Government has identified the issue as a ministerial priority. In developing practical, sustainable NPS policy, we must listen to communities and front-line professionals from health workers to youth workers. I think that that is the only way to ensure that they have the tools that they need to bring about change and improve early intervention, education and enforcement. I thank Alex Johnson for bringing this debate to us. It is extremely important, and it is timely. I noticed that the previous debate on this subject, which was in the 6th of February last year, we were, to some extent, floudering with the lack of information. The two reports, which I have in my hand now and which Members will have consulted, have, of course, significantly informed us over the period, which is very useful in its own terms. As Members have already commented, much of the information in there is extremely useful, but one of the major errors, I guess, is that most of the information that we have is second hand, and that is an important aspect of researching anything. However, I have to say that I did notice with some pleasure that the Hot Chocolate Trust, for example, had provided some of the information in Dundee. As a former trustee of that organisation, I think that they are very well-placed to know what their clients are saying and to pass it on very well. Whilst a lot of it is second hand, much of it should be treated with considerable respect, and I am very happy to do so. I noticed, as others have previously commented, that most people's first-hand experience, or first experience of using these kinds of drugs, is actually from friends or shops, and that is why it is extraordinarily important that we get rid of those shops. Therefore, I am very pleased that active groups across our constituencies, and I refer particularly to Montrose, have been trying to highlight that as an issue. I have to say that we know that those things can be dangerous, but it is only when you have actually got somebody in front of you, and I remember the experience of the man from Aberdeen, telling him about how his partner had become deluded, delusional, totally addicted to these drugs and has subsequently died in dreadful circumstances. It is only when you get that kind of experience that it really means something to you as a listener to me. I am very conscious that that is what we must do if the youngsters within our communities are to be dissuaded. It is that first-hand experience, that education, which I think is the most important thing that we can conceivably do. I do not know how we do it, but that is what would really work. I am very grateful to Graham Day for all that he said about the police. I do commend the work that they are doing, and Graham has taken us through that. My own conversations with the police have indicated that they are going to crack this. They are absolutely determined to do what they can to protect our communities, and I am equally convinced that our communities want them to deal with this. Restricting the supply seems to be the other thing, apart from good information and education to our constituents. There is a real difficulty there, which some have referred to, about online sales. This, of course, is going to cause us a problem. It already does, but it will continue to cause us a problem. I would like briefly, Presiding Officer, to address the legislative approaches which the Government might come up with. I think that the thing that we need to make clear—I am grateful to other members for what they have already said—is that this is not an easy legislative area. There was an expert panel group, and I commend the report that was published in September. It is published by the Home Office. This is a UK-wide debate. They looked at various ways in which we could do this. I would like to briefly put them on the record, partly because it might help the Minister and his summing up. You can try and ban analogs, which are chemicals that look roughly the same. You can also try and legislate for neurochemical equivalence. There is some good chemistry in here where you can pick up parts of the chemical which seem to have the right effect on the identified bits of the brains. That can be done by genuine clever organic chemistry. Again, you are only banning a particular area, or a group of chemicals, a particular area of the problem, and the mere trouble that I am having describing that tells you how difficult it is going to be to get the chemistry right and define it in any terms that lawyers are going to be able to cope with, never mind courts. The third approach outlined in here is the general prohibition, which essentially says that if it is anything like this kind of chemical and sold for having that kind of effect, then we can probably assume that it is bad and we really ought to ban it. That actually is quite a good approach and was what I think the group commended. However, the difficulty with that is actually not the way that British legal systems, the English and the Scottish legal systems, work. You can go for full regulation, which is what we do with current drugs. New Zealand have tried this. I think that their story suggests that that might not be the best approach. Restricted availability is very much what we would want to recommend. The police, I am quite sure, are to be commended for what they are doing. Community activists are very much to be commended. Communities want to see these things out of the high street. We must do absolutely everything we can, but we must just be careful, as I conclude, not to imagine that some easy legal fix, just ban them, sounds very easy. It is not going to work. It really is enormously complicated. I would like to make a very short contribution because most of the substantive issues have already been covered by colleagues this afternoon. I very much agree with the note that Nigel Don finished on that there is no easy solution to this, and legal and legality might not necessarily be the answer. I went yesterday to a shop in Dundee to see for myself how attractively packaged legal highs are. I find the issue extremely worrying. For the young people, we know that 16 to 19-year-olds are particularly attracted to try these substances. I think that it is particularly worrying for parents as well, because they know that perhaps the whole tag of legal highs gives an implication that those things are legal, acceptable and perhaps even safe. We all know that the reality that they are not so. I am not saying that I am coming to the chamber today with any hard answers, but I hope that we can maybe look very carefully at this over the next few weeks so that we do not have the same debate next new year and have not moved any further forward in this. One thing that I would like to suggest, and I think that we released something just in the Christmas period on this, is a more robust system of reporting in our national health service. I understand that there is no reporting system in place so that health boards have to report the number of cases that are presented to hospitals that are a result of abuse or taking of these legal highs. I wonder if that is something that we can perhaps put in place so that we at least have the data in Scotland that shows what is being presented to our hospitals so that we can have the evidence and then start to identify preventative measures. I call on the minister, Paul Wheelhouse, to close the debate on behalf of the Government. Mr Wheelhouse, seven minutes or thereby, please. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I am grateful for the opportunity to close this debate today. It is the first such opportunity that I have had, in fact, since taking up my new post to reply on behalf of the Government and to do so on a matter of such importance and designificance. I thank Alex Johnson again, but I thank him at this point for bringing the subject to the chamber today. While I could not participate in the debate on NPS in February last year, I am aware that there was much agreement that the NPS, or as they are often inappropriately referred to, legal highs present a real challenge to us, not just in terms of enforcement and the legality that has been referred to by Jenny Marra, but also the need to educate and to design services that respond swiftly to the growing array of products that are available. It is a fundamentally important point when people refer to NPS as legal highs. To remind those who are not expert in this field, and I count myself among those up until I have got this position, that NPS should not be sold for human consumption. They may pose real risks to anyone who consumes them, and Alex Johnson set out some very detailed points about the kind of health risks that they may pose. Only time will tell us to the house significant that the long-term health risks will be of consuming these products, albeit that the motion sets out some very worrying statistics echoed by Alison McInnes and others of their association with fatalities to date, and the trauma that it causes for the relatives, particularly the relatives that Graham Day and Nigel Don have referred to, and indeed others. I am grateful to Alex Johnson for bringing this motion today, and I recognise the efforts that are being made in his local area. I am also grateful to other members who have spoken today, notably Graham Day, the constituency member for Angus South, for support for Police Scotland and trading standards officers' efforts to clamp down on what they have perceived to be reckless conduct on the part of those selling NPS. I very much do welcome that, and no other members in the chamber have echoed that today. Last year, my predecessor, Roseanna Cunningham, asked all ADPs to continue to make new psychoactive substances a priority for the areas, considering the needs of the area, and planning and delivering services to respond to that. I am delighted that NHS Tayside has picked up the ball and has undertaken a needs assessment. I have acknowledged the considerable concern that those substances are causing to local communities there and elsewhere. I think that this point was specifically reflected in Alison McInnes' remarks and those of Graham Day and Alex Johnson, and I reflect the testimonies of families who have sadly had relative killed by NPS. I very much want to commend the efforts of the range of local partners in our brothan and troes, who have shown real leadership on the issue and have developed a strong partnership to consider the range of legal and other remedies that are available to restrict the sale and supply of NPS. I was encouraged to read in Saturday's Courier of the Closure of the Hedge Shop in our Broth, which has been a result of the strong partnership approach. That is a significant development and shows what can be achieved when partners such as Police Scotland, Trading Standards Officers and local communities work together. I know that similar partnership success has been achieved in South Ayrshire previously—the first area, indeed, to secure the closure of a hedge shop in the circumstances. The expert legal group commissioned by Roseanna Cunningham has visited the Tayside area and spoken first hand to those on ground to better understand the limitations and opportunities that are presented by current reserved and devolved law. I am grateful to local stakeholders for supporting the work of the expert legal group in this way. The expert group was struck by the strong partnership with local authority, the police, treatment services and schools, all pulling together a comprehensive approach, echoing the remarks of many across the chamber. I am expecting to receive the report of the legal group later this month, and I have already met them just before Christmas to discuss the progress that they are making with their work. The report is being informed by the publication of the UK Government's own review into NPS, and I will be looking to engage with Home Office ministers in the coming weeks to discuss how we can cooperate further in delivering on the agenda. In addition to the legal work, I would take the opportunity to remind colleagues across the chamber that the Scottish Government has been leading some thinking at a national level about how better we can understand the who and the what of NPS and develop an evidence base to ensure that our policy response is proportionate and targeted. In August, we published a summary of evidence to date and brought together a group of informed experts drawn from different fields to examine the trends in use, data being collected and what evidential gaps remain. I am currently considering the recommendations from the group, and I hope that that addresses Nigel Don's concerns regarding the need for more first-hand data to be available. In due course, we are studying and should point out the approach that was taken in Wales at this time to see what relevance it may have to Scotland, so I give it an undertaking to Jenny Marra that is something that we are looking at, and we will obviously take on board any messages that come from that. However, our work to support prevention and education continues. Recently, I visited a crew in Edinburgh who I note supplied a useful briefing for MSPs in advance of today's debate to see the prevention and messaging work that we support and to aid my own understanding of NPS issues. I found the visit particularly helpful and was struck about the dominance of NPS stimulants and cannabinoids use in the Edinburgh area and their strength and how they are often used alongside illicit drugs in a cocktail of substances that people are taking. Also, alcohol, of course, can be an exacerbating factor. What also worried me was the emerging evidence that some are using NPS intravenously, exposing themselves to the risk of bloodborne diseases and, indeed, amputations to add to the long list that Alex Johnson set out today. Our continued funding for the web-based know-the-score and the schools-based Choices for Life programme are a vital part of the national contribution. I was greatly impressed by what I saw at the studio in East Kilbride, the Choices for Life studio, and I welcome the fact that the Choices team is hoping to be in a position to broadcast a powerful new NPS team video overglow the network used to educate children from spring onwards. I hope that that addresses the point that Anne McTaggart was looking for more support in terms of education resources to help inform young people of the risks of using NPS. I am struck by the level of political consensus on the issue of NPS, both today and in February, and I am giving some consideration as to how I might build on that consensus and work with colleagues across the political spectrum to build on the engagement that was already undertaken by my predecessor, Rosanna Cunningham, and I will bring forward some thought in that in the coming weeks. Being closing, I would like to once again thank Alex Johnson for bringing us to debate today. I reassure him and other colleagues that I am committed to working with all those who have something to offer in responding to this challenge. I am encouraged by the progress that is being made in local areas such as across Tayside, but we must increase the capacity of all of Scotland to respond with local ADPs working with community planning partners and nationally commissioned organisations to tackle drug smith's use and support delivery of the road to recovery. The Government's commitment to continue to intervene at a national level to create the best conditions for NPS to be tackled and to having an open door to work with colleagues across the chamber to tackle the challenge posed by public health to public health and communities well-being represented by NPS. I thank you for your time today and for the valuable contributions that all have made to the debate.