 All right, join us, join us, we're beginning. All right, welcome. This is Puppets in the Green Mountain. It's the last of our live broadcast, live stream access and the arts dialogue. Once again, moderated. The subject today is community art spaces. What does it do for the artists? What does it do for the community? What does it do for the field? We just want to welcome you and let's begin. Thank you. So I'm John Potter. I am the executive director of the Latches Theater, which just celebrated its 80th birthday yesterday. Plug over. We are proud to be a theater, but we also do think of ourselves a little bit as a community art space. We also house artists' studios and studio spaces, and we have an art gallery, and we certainly work across all kinds of media and genre. So we're not exactly an artist community or colony, but we do have some sympathetic feelings and work that we do. In doing some research for this gathering, I must say it's a little hard to navigate what people are thinking about artist colonies and artist spaces. One article I read tipped its hand with a headline reading, whatever happened to artist colonies, and what followed was a snarkily cynical article, which included such comments as, to have art colonies, you have to have artists as outcasts and artists aren't outcasts anymore. Why would artists want to hang out with one another? Or have a puppet festival or something. Another more fair-minded writer writing about an artist colony in Seattle wrote, you can't put an exact price on an encounter with an artist twirling away in the studio or greeting guests at an open house. The alchemy of urban vitality isn't easy to track, but no doubt a street full of empty buildings is a lot less worth visiting. A still more enthusiastic advocate in touting the role the arts can play in community revitalization and economic development, and in reversing the trends about migration and the exodus of younger people, urged people to think of the arts first. The arts and art making are not the dessert, but are a key part of the meal. Since I love a good meal, I lean toward the last comment. Today we're going to examine the topic of enriching communities through the development of artist spaces in Taiwan and Vermont. With us today is Jiayin Zheng, who is the co-founder and artistic director of Taiwan's The Puppet and Its Double Theater. In 2013, she also started the ambitious project to set up the Leads of Puppet Art Colony, renovating old rice barns into an international laboratory for puppet arts. Also with us is Robert McBride, the founder of the Rockingham Arts and Museum Project right up the road in Bellows Falls. It's a project which is committed to integrating artists and the arts into the long-term sustainability of his home community. He is also an artist and serves on more boards of directors and steering committees than anyone in his right mind ought to. Most of them focused on the creative economy, cultural heritage and preservation, and the arts and community in development. So welcome to you both. Thank you. And why don't we start with Jiayin and your project, and I understand you have a slide show to go with it. So we'll just let you go. Hello, I'm Jiayin. I come from Taiwan. Yes, and I co-founded Puppet and Its Double Theater. And so first forgive me because English is not my native language, but I will try my best, yes. And today I have the other staff with me, help me. It's our lighting designer and Louis, our technical director, yes. So maybe they can also jump in and give you some ideas when we are working on. And so my company was founded in 1999. Yeah, and right back to 1999, we had a very big earthquake at September 21st. So we were founded when I finished study at UConn Puppetry Program, and I was back in the beginning of September. So that same month. And I founded the company with some friends, but immediately the earthquake happened. That was a big one and about 2,000 people died. So we stopped all the plans and events we're going to do for that same year. Then my colleague and I would just quickly throw all the pockets I built at UConn and take a luggage with me just to, we have some projects sponsored by universities or foundations that artists can go to the earthquake area to help cheer up the children. But at that time we didn't have any show yet but my colleague and I, but we know each other because we've worked in another theater a long time ago. We know each other well. So we just took out all the pockets and made up something and some improvisation between us and also get response from children. So it was a wonderful experience like the audience and the puppeteer we all interact and improvise at the same time and create something live and different each time. So that project, that kind of project stayed less about two or three years after that. So we constantly went back to the mid-Taiwan where the earthquake was and did something like that workshop for schools. And so besides our formal theater production, doing workshops always very important part for my company. And also the, before we set up the company, there was only like traditional, you can only see puppets in traditional hand puppet styles or a children's theater. There are no contemporary puppet company back then. So at the same time we want to learn from Western countries. And so we also invited many international artists to give workshops or to give shows in Taiwan. And we were based in Taipei for like 14 years before we moved to countryside to Ilan. So we set up lead the puppet art company there and we moved there now for five years. So through the first four years we have all the renovations going on between rice, we have three rice farms. And now last year we renovated a fourth floor building. So through all the four years we had many, many renovations going on and we have to shift things back and forth between spaces. That was a very painful time. And at the same time we're doing a lot of, still doing a lot of touring shows around Taiwan and also went to like festival, festivals internationally. Yes. And so you saw Mr. Rourou's Yard, the show we presented here. So that is the very, that was the very first show we created since we moved to the countryside. So it's like a contribution to moving from the very big city. We were in Taipei, the capital city of Taiwan, very crowded, very busy. And so Mr. Rourou's Yard is like a contribution to our new life in the countryside. So yes, so we try to stay in more nature and do different things. And so now, before we were in Taipei, we were in a very small apartment. We always have to shift things back and forth when we build puppets. Sometimes we have to rehearse, sometimes we build puppets. Sometimes we have to rent a place to rehearse. But now we have a very well-equipped place for puppeteers. We have a carpenter's workshop, sewing room. We have rehearsal studios, which we can do simple shows and hold some presentations. And so we constantly do workshops in our art colony. And we also like, we have events like open day, like open weekend, so people can come in. We have like art market. We invited our, they were originally like theater designers, but we make them, maybe you do something for, don't stay in the small theater, come out, that make something for art fair, experience different style. I think we moved to Leeds. That's a very small village, very quiet village. But actually Leeds was a seaport back to 100 years ago. It was a very prosperous trade center yet. But because later the trade center moved more to the land because of the trend, transportation, so the seaport slowly declined. And now it's a very, very quiet village, like I think about 200 or 300 people there. And most of them are senior people. So for them we are very weird people. Because we are not, because they, I think they know each other in the village. So we have strange faces for them. But so wherever they see strange faces, they would say, oh, that must be from the party, how we are colony. Or they see some foreign faces, people are looking around, they will point, oh, I know you're looking for, anything, if they saw some artists got lost, like a western faces got lost, they will point to our colony. And we also send artists to schools and communities very often. And starting from two years ago, we started an artist in residence program. We started to try to host international artists to live in our colony. We have artist accommodation. So they live there and stay about one month to one and a half months. And they can go to create some project they want. And we, in my company we have a puppeteer. So there will be someone always that can assist them or discuss with them. And we found it, it's a very strong program and enrich our colony a lot. Like this year we hosting artists from Romania, from Italy, from Hungary and from Thailand. And they all do different styles of puppetry. And we open the presentation to the public. And also we collect money from general public, but it's free for the neighbors. And I must say this is something they never see before because they are more people, the villagers, they are more acquainted with the Taiwanese opera, like traditional opera style or traditional hand puppets. But they never see something like very innovative, creative thing. What's nice about it is some of the artists they create shows out of our local stories or our local legend stories. So for the villagers there, they really feel touched to see someone from different country doing our own stories from our own culture. Yeah, yeah, and also starting from last year we hosted Leeds International Public Festival. So Eric, the St. Glass Theater was in our very first festival and this year we will invite them back to do a Shoshana solo show when I put on your cloth and we are happy. So after our trip back to Taiwan we're going to prepare for the festival and host them back to keep them back from the hospice hospitality we receive here. So I feel it's very, very nice to have the space so people can meet, artists can meet. And I feel, although the past, everything, all the renovation and the fundraising thing were very headache, but I'm still, I'm very, very happy about what we are doing now. And it's, I think it's, yeah, sometimes we do like a puppeteer training. We force them to call in to come in and react to people because sometimes puppeteers tend to be very shy. They like to stay behind the booth. So we say, oh, you should go out and see how people react to the puppet and then your puppet will grow the character. Yes. And we have a small exhibition there. When Eric was there, this part hasn't finished yet. Yeah, yeah, this building was still under construction. So you will also see something new here. Yeah, can't wait. And the, yeah. And also we are not, we are not thinking that we want to change the community. We're thinking we want to just open the space so the villagers also can join us. And we always invited elders to like to teach us, like traditional, how to make traditional food or like a needlework or a knitting. And I feel it's a very nice, yeah, nice communication with them. But it takes time because in the very beginning we are very separate from the community but since we moved there for five years and they gradually accept us being there because in the beginning they thought it was just temporary thing. They didn't think some people from the big city would stay there and build art there and be part of the community. So yeah, and also starting from this year because all the spaces were finished and we try to move our focus from doing more touring, theater, theatrical shows to more to that outside event and try to stay there longer. In the past we tend to travel a lot to do shows but starting from this year we shift focus that we do more events there so people come to us. But I think that's for now. That's great. I'm curious, at the very beginning was there resistance from people in the village or in the community to your idea at first and if so how did you work with that and overcome that? Yes, in the beginning yes because this space was deserted like almost 20 years. So villagers are using it as storage or they did their, they hand their laundry or parked their cars in this space. So suddenly they couldn't use it. We rented this place from a farmer's unit because it was rice farms. Yes, so but we tried to be nice. We sometimes during the holidays we gave them some gifts or we tried to knock door to door, speak to them. Oh, we're going to have a show you'd like to watch but in the beginning we have very few, very few people they were willing to come but I think that this year because we finished on the center it look nice now because it wasn't look so nice before because it was under construction. So and we also have like illustration book library so children can just come in and read the books. So yeah, we were trying pretty hard to get them step into the place but once they got in they like it and they come back. Yes and because the young people they all move to city they sometimes they visit their parents during holidays. They were like very surprised. I didn't know my hometown become like this because they are young generation with children. So I want to come back more often. I'm sure that makes them feel great. Well, I appreciate hearing it does feel like you did the right things and many of the right things to build the bridges to the community. And I love the idea of having them come in and teach curriculum, teach what they know and. And also one thing that first they were suspicious because it was like the whole county was like a tourist spot. So maybe some business or commercial benefit they wonder if we came there because we can earn a lot of money and they will lose the business. So at the beginning some people were suspicious of us. Later I realized they just poor artists. They couldn't take any off to us. Yeah. I think we'll turn to Robert and hear about what he's done. I'm perceiving a lot of common threads. But if you could tell us about the Rocking and Larks and Museum Project and the Exner Block and your work there. Yeah, yeah. And I think Cheyenne touches on many points about the organic nature of something developing. The amount of time it takes for something to develop. And I basically describe myself as an invasive weed that just keeps popping up in situations. I came to Bellows Falls because of a dinner party. I was living in Manhattan and then I came up to a dinner party in 1981 that was being hosted by a friend of mine at what was then the Andrews Inn which was a gay inn in downtown Bellows Falls in about 1977 to 83. There was a one in Browardboro. There wasn't a gay meeting place in Burlington. It was like, how did this happen in Bellows Falls, Vermont? And that's another story which we happen to be telling the story of with HB air and different people. But I came up for dinner party with three other people. It was great, you know, all these people. I had a great time, stayed over night and I bought a house. I'm looking for property. I had never been to Vermont in my life but I love downtown Bellows Falls. The stores were open, steel bridges. It was like this really like working class place. I said, this is a very cool place. So I was walking around the town that next morning and up the street there was a little house for sale and I went back to three of my friends that had come up said we should buy this house. So we called the number. She said, well, there's a contract on it. So we went into town and bought trinkets and we buried them on the property and at the end of the week, the house was available and we bought it. And I think I came up very infrequently from New York. I wasn't looking to transplant here. I'm looking for a place to get out of New York once in a while. And then over the years I spent more time. We were all in our 20s, other partners sold out to do other things with their lives and I ended up owning the house in the 90s. And after that time, I've been in New York 25 years and I was ready for exchange and I moved up to Bellows Falls. And at that point, when I moved there, it was like then I was ready to say I'm now part of this community. How can I help contribute things to the community with the background I have in the arts? And in New York City, I've been there and moved there in the 1970s and it was a great time to be in New York. It was vital, the apartments were cheap, the city was going bankrupt. And you had a lot of opportunity to really work. Plus I was also in my 20s and anywhere in your 20s was probably a great time in your life to explore things. I was also fortunate to put together a space on the Lower East Side Manhattan called PS 122. And that was just a lovely experience. It still exists, even the painters we brought in the performers, they're the ones that have really put the place on the map and that was a great place to work out of. So I sort of came from this place of being used to working with other artists, having other artists in a building that you could rely on and work with. And by the time I came to Vermont in the mid 1990s, Bellows Falls was very different. All the stores that closed down, I would say 70% of the downtown was vacant and upstairs and retail spaces. So I kind of just rolled up my sleeves and said, let's just start doing stuff with the arts. Let's do some smoke and mirrors, let's use the press, let's bring in some quality things. Bellows Falls was not a town that was known for the arts. And we, and just, I seem to have the capacity, I seem to have vision, but I have the knack to meet people that have capacity. And I think that's where my invasive weakness comes in. That I would just show all kinds of meanings of the state on Amtrak, on this and that. And people would just say, who is this guy from Bellows Falls that thinks it's great? Because at that point, Bellows Falls was kind of known as an armpit in Vermont and not known for anything. And I had the great fortune, to me, Andy Broderick, who was president of Housing Vermont at the time, a statewide housing organization. And the Exner Block, which is a building in downtown Bellows Falls, which now provides affordable housing for 10 artists and six retail spaces, was coming up for auction. He was interested in buying it. He met me at a select board meeting and asked me if I would help work on the development of that building and what my vision was. And I said to create affordable housing for artists. So, because I do experience that thing where artists mostly go to a community, take the lousy places, fix it up, and then gentrification sets in and they move on. And that's not the biggest fear I have in Bellows Falls is gentrification. But I do believe that artists should have a place in a community and not have to just move on. Now, I have fights with Charlie Hunter in town about this concept. Charlie's a great painter and music developer, developer, entrepreneur that believes that that is the focus of artists to be like these kind of beetles, these dung beetles that get in and get things going. And then, you know, the community can move on. So we kind of joke about that. But having just said all of that, I am first person to say that I'd like to expand the conversation from the concept of artists to creatives, creativity, and people functioning creatively in whatever they do. I've met some of the most creative plumbers and the least creative artists. And I think if we can broaden our vocabulary to look at creativity and its application, that that's very important. I also don't want Bellows Falls to be known as an artist community. I would like it to be a community that artists feel comfortable living in, but they're part of that community with all the other people, the seniors, the this. They create energy, but they have respect for it and they're not shoving anyone else out. And it's a broader, broader kind of community to be in. And I think that if any of you have been to Bellows Falls over the last 25 years, you might sense some of that development downtown, feels good, the people that seem to be attracted to doing things are kind of pioneers and entrepreneurial. The sheep can come when they're ready, and that's great. But I think Bellows Falls is the same way to appeal to me when I went there in 1981. There was just something that got my little intent ago. And I was like, I like this place. And I think the other people, Michael Bruner, who opened the antique store, Gary Smith, who's done Popola Restaurant, the Wonder Bar people all had that similar kind of reaction to this community. That sort of sense of something that could happen here that wasn't just economically planned out. And I also think another successful thing of the community is that if I look at eight or 10 of the businesses in the downtown, they're all run by people under 35 years of age. They own the buildings, and that's the exact kind of economic development, the Brattle World Development Credit Corporation is looking for, the concept we're losing youth. How do you bring youth in? And I think Bellows Falls is a wonderful example of people coming to the community that are investing in it and bringing in the next generation to come. So yeah, I'm more of an arts advocacy organization. I have put on programming per se, but I look at the concept of housing, making art accessible to not culturally and physically to people. I host a TV program called Everyday People, so we can interview people making a difference in our communities. Sometimes they're artists, sometimes it's social service, but how do we just kind of tell the stories of our community in the broadest sense? I also help host artist town meetings quarterly, where we reach out to artists, artisans and local food people because with food, you're actually eating the culture. And sometimes 15 people show up, sometimes 40, but we just have a conversation together and sometimes an agenda of moving things forward. So I think it's really important to keep people physically in touch with each other. The more we get into the digital communication, it's fantastic, and it is fantastic and out. People do want to be in a room with one another, you know? Ultimately, we are sort of tribal and people do want to be in a room and there's no kind of substitution for that, sharing a meal, the very basic thing of sharing a meal together. So that's kind of an overview of where ramp is and what's done. I'm thrilled that people in the community are doing things. There's people doing stuff with the arts that have never heard of my organization in Bellows Falls, and I think that's fantastic, you know? I don't get involved with saying you should have seen it when I moved here. It's more like, great, how can we support what you're doing? Because this is really what we want to see growing and it seems to be doing its organic thing. I think right now, Bellows Falls is a place that its reality and its reputation are not in a line and people are judging it by what it used to be or thinking about it in the way it used to be as the way it is now. And I think hopefully those can line up. But it's kind of nice to have that mode around us too. I mean, still that, we wanted to buy a house in Bellows Falls, but we didn't do it. It was like, great, you know? Charlie Hunter came up with this great t-shirt slope in years ago, Bellows Falls, not nearly as bad as you'd thought. Did you encounter any resistance from the local community or, if not resistance, at least glances a scance at your crazy idea? And I'm also intrigued at the notion of doing a project with housing involved, but having that housing dedicated as artists' faces and whether there was any difficulty in achieving that and funding that based on the fact that it had that particular sort of designation. So if you could talk about the process of getting that vision enacted. Well, that was really all through meeting. I said that this guy, Andy Broder, who was the head of housing, Vermont. And no, there's no problem with that. It's federal, affordable housing. It's not hard to have a targeted uni. You have projects they do that are for people over 55 years of age, and that's fine. And it can be with a preference given to artists. So basically what happens, I don't manage the X and their blocks, do a property management company manages it. What they do is when an apartment becomes available, they let me know, and they give me about 30 days to reach out to my artist community to see if there's an artist that would meet those affordable housing guidelines. And in Wyndham County, an individual, can I think earn up to about $27,500 a year to qualify for affordable housing, but it's not a subsidy they get. It's just that your income allows you to do it. You still pay rent in the building, but we do accept vouchers like Section 8 vouchers or something, that's our problem. So there was no kind of problem with making a target audience of her preference given to artists. If I don't find an artist in that time, then they can go down their list of affordable housing people and fill the apartment with that. Currently we have about eight of the 10 apartments filled with artists, three jazz musicians, painters, graphic designers, and stuff like that. And the apartment rents run in key included, they're all one bedrooms for about between $500 and $700 a month. And do you have a sense of the artists who are living there deriving inspiration and connection with one another? I mean, is it functioning, if not as a colony, at least as a connecting place? Yeah, what's really been interesting, we opened the building in 2000, and the populations of artists just shift. Basically when you go to the affordable housing program, it's for a year lease, so it's not like a short term, we can't do residencies in and out of there or anything in terms of artist things, but it's a year lease. And sometimes it's been young people, some people have gone on to buy homes in town or just moved on to other projects where they moved around the country. Right now I'd say a lot of our artists are probably over 55 or 60, and it's kind of neat that these people have come. They kind of at this point in their life realize the value of living in the downtown, a walkable community, and also the idea of being in touch with artists in the same building. You can just knock on someone's door and can you look at my work, having that connection. We run a not-for-profit little gallery in the lobby area, which we sometimes show work of the artists, but have different kinds of art exhibits come in and anyone is perfectly willing to approach me to see if it might be appropriate to have an exhibit in the space there about that. I don't know if they answer your questions. Completely. One of the things that interests me is that both of you migrated from the city to a rural area. And I'm curious if you miss being in the city, what do you miss about it, and what have you gained by being in the rural area and making that journey? Yes, and I was born in Taipei and grew up in Taipei. I'm a very, very stingy person. So when I moved to, but I really, because I really wanted a good place to work in public tree, so we moved to comfort, in the beginning, every time I saw little insects or spiders, I screamed. Then I thought, oh, it's too tired because there are so many spiders there. And now I see spiders, oh my God, no spiders. Yeah, that really happened to me. And I think I always enjoy watching theater, but for that you'll have to go to big cities because in countryside there are not that many things happening there. But in the beginning, I tend to go back to Taipei like every weekend to watch shows, then now less and less, maybe five a month, not like once a month. So it's a, I go back to city less and less. And now I really enjoy to create like a really, because gradually I found that when I watched show in the city, they are like the most trendy international company brought by our national theater. I enjoy it, but it's somehow feel strange because it's separate from daily life, especially from the general Taiwanese people who are not living in the city. It's a very separate from that. And I started to enjoy more like create art with the community. So art is not only theater or all the music or dance, it's like everything together, food, singing, and everything happened at the same time. Now I feel I like it more that way. I think that aligns with Robert's vision of creativity, existing in every life and in every part of life and not just in an artist assaulted by an artist, but it is around what we eat and what we do and who we interact with. Any regrets? No, no, no, I mean, I grew up in San Francisco. The Bay Area went to school in Berkeley and moved to New York in 75 to go to graduate school. Thought I'd be there two years, go back to the Bay Area where I'd always been and loved and fell in love with New York and never went back. So I really had, and just, I've always liked the concept of cities and the action and the where you're being around. And then when I moved up to Bellis Falls full time, I sort of thought, what's it gonna be like? And I guess I'll go to Brattleboro more to see things or stuff. And then got right into the pace that there is so much going on up here. I mean, I also originally, when I bought my house and I went, I would come to Bellis Falls to get out of New York. Ironically, now I go to New York to relax, to get out of Bellis Falls because I'm so busy and there's so much activity and, you know, so it's, you know, I go down to New York and I see a few things, but I'm not, and yes, there are the quality of certain kinds of exhibits you're not going to see and I'll go see those. But there's, we live in such a rich culture in Southeast Carolina, we're just in the middle of this international puppet festival which you're not gonna see anywhere else of top quality work, you know. When you go to concerts and you see things like the Stone Church Arts where Eugene Friesen might play teaches at the Berkeley School of Music, you can actually go up to the artist after and talk to them. You're not gonna be able to do that in a concert in New York City. And I think what I always try to remind people living in Vermont or South Eastern Vermont with, you know, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, right by, you know, the scale of Vermont allows us to be involved in our communities. There's 600,000 people, 620 of the whole state. You can roll up your sleeves and make a difference and get involved which is much more difficult in a big city if you don't have the certain kind of connections or collaborations. And I think whether you wanna run for office, whether you wanna start an arts organization, whatever, you know, there's that opportunity and I think that makes Vermont a very, very, very special place. So I can't, no, I am totally busy. There's always something great to see and the quality of what we have here is really top-notch. Could you speak a little bit about how the colony has informed your art and enhanced and enriched creation of other art? What has it meant to gather people together and perhaps stir new creations that you talked about? I think that part most come from our Artists in Residence program because we, I think there are very, very few places that only focus, like an artist colony or artist village only focus on puppetry. And we got about 20 applications last year but I found now a day that people are doing less and less the physical puppets. They're doing more object or video art. So for now I tend to choose people still doing, still build puppets and express through the physical puppets more. I think in this coming few years, but of course in the future when we have more funding we can add in more like avant-garde or cutting edge things. And I think when artist puppeteers arrived at our colony they were like, this is like a paradise, yes. A paradise for puppeteer because usually people will just work at their house on a small table and I think there are so many solo artists in Europe. Yeah, they always work alone, but here it's like a big family. They get to chat to people and feel different culture and it surprised us and the artists that how much you can reach in one month because they were working in a very difficult situation worrying about all the things that don't have space. But now because they are provided by all the equipment, tools and materials like we have walls or drawers and drawers of different kind of materials. So they can reach very, very far in one month. So we were very surprised about their presentation because we didn't expect that much. Yeah, I think that because they were used to work in very bad circumstances. So when they reach the puppet paradise they can really work very fast because everything is handy. And like I think it's also brought a lot of opportunity that we can cooperate with the artists more like in the coming years. Like the two years ago there was artists from Mexico. She's so good. So we invited her back with her co-founder of her company, the two people from Mexico back last year. And this year we're hosting four of them back and we are doing mother courage. It is coming October. So when I come I will jump to, they already working on that. So I feel it's not just starting from very small project, solo project, it can grow maybe to a full production, yes, full scale production. So I see a lot of possibilities from it, yes. Have you seen yet artists, oh I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no. Have you seen yet artists who came from different places for residency and then meet each other and say, hey, let's work together or do you hope to see that? Yeah, yeah, we try it different way because last year we tried to have them all together in one time, in one same month. So they got to work together a lot. But this year we try to separate them. So we have events like year round always have some presentation. But we miss that part from last year. So because this is a very new program so we're still trying to figure out how to adjust it. Yes? That's exciting to think of what I'm going to call it. But their time overlap a little bit so it's like somebody will help us, the others project. Well I was going to respond to the idea of creating artwork myself. And I mean I don't get into my studio as much but then I also realize the whole thing that I'm creating is a piece of choreography. So that my whole involvement with Bell's Falls whether it's with the housing or how it goes back to trying to look at any situation or involved in and working with that situation creatively. I mean even when I go to the supermarket you never know if you're going to have some fantastic conversation with the person in front of you about something that could go somewhere else or it might just be a mundane house of weather. But you know the possibility of the opportunity, the possibility is always in the present. And so the work that I do is very bright abstract painting and so it's not a technically based thing that oh my God I haven't been doing it for a while, I've lost this touch. It's more when I go into the studio if I've been handling my life creatively the pains just flow, they just flow when I'm there. So I find the environment of Bell's Falls to be incredibly rich and creative. And ironically, I also, not ironically, Bell's Falls is a very urban place. I mean I can walk to everything I need to do. There's days I never got in an automobile and that's how it was when I lived in a neighborhood in New York. You know, and so people laugh at me and I think, I don't think I've seen any city as collaged as Bell's Falls, I compare it to Rome, Italy where you look at a piece of architecture against the sky, against a decaying piece of architecture against this. It's a very, very rich urban environment. Yeah, I think that's an even brow of a room and it's a city for two blocks. This whole industrial history of the Connecticut River is this amazing industrial history. So asking you to put humility and modesty aside, do you think, Robert, that your work has moved the needle as far as people recognizing the value of arts and creatives in the whole larger economic and cultural community perspective of the state and is what you did in Bell's Falls, what impact did that have? Well, I think it's certainly got a lot of recognition. I mean Bell's Falls is really very much and very much on the radar screen of the state in a lot of ways from the Vermont Council of World Development to the, you know, the Board of Division for Historic Preservation and Commerce and Community Development. And people do have sort of a buzz about Bell's Falls. I mean, John, you and I are working right now with the initiatives of the Vermont Arts Council on the Vermont Creative Network. And I think for years and years and years we've all known that artists, creatives really add to the economic impact of the community. But it's been very hard for us as art organizations to kind of get those figures together. You know, you'll see a report come out of any organization and they'll mention agricultural, they'll mention this, but they don't rarely mention the arts. And over the last five or six years, particularly the New England Foundation for the Arts has really been tracking figures. And as we look at Vermont, Vermont artists or creatives in the broadest sense probably are accountable for 9% of the jobs in Vermont. And that's probably more jobs than agriculture contributes to the state. Yet, so we're now really working on here are real figures, here are hard facts. These things around the arts need to be mentioned and highlighted in these reports. So that's one of the aims of what we're trying to do with the Vermont Creative Network in our zone and then working with organizations, collaborating with them, working with the Bradford Development Credit Corporation with the Wyndham Regional with reports and stuff, addressing how the arts are involved. I'd love to open up for some questions from the audience. Don't be shy. This is your version of one good chance. While you're waiting for people to answer your questions. Could you tell us what you're working on now or artistically and maybe future plans for the company too? Yes, very quickly coming in October we collaborated a work with a dance company. So it's combination of public tree and dance will be premiered this second weekend in October. And at the end of October we have the Mother Courage thing and also it's a collaboration between the governmental art park because there was an old paper factory now has been used, just renovated to be used for arts. So we're cooperating with that cultural park and we will do our show there. And then in November we have our second festival. And next year we are going to do a show with traditional symphony orchestra. So they will play live on stage and we do public tree. It will be like opera style. It's our first time to try opera. So I think we do a lot of challenging projects along the way. Yeah, starting from this year we're hosting summer camps and next year we will continue doing summer camps and workshops open to public. And like every year we also host like, oh this coming late, oh we have so many things coming up over. We hosting Natasha Belova from Rousseau doing the two week workshop, building public workshop. So yeah, get to our Facebook page. Yeah, like us and you will see much, much happening now in Taiwan. So you can just buy ticket and fly to Taiwan. How many permanent members of the colony are there? I mean obviously there's few and some of your staff here. How many people are actually? We have in total 19 full time members. So five of them are for the colony and 14 of them from public and it's double. Whether we do a sort of like very mixture way of working everybody through everything. Do you consider, do you think, do you use the name of the inclusiveness in your programs? And can you, if so, can you tell us a little bit about that? The program? Inclusiveness, if you know, if this is subject of the festival, right? Is it a mirror or some way in your way or in your reflection about your work? You mean the steam for the festival? Yeah, we are. Sorry, I didn't quite... Inclusiveness? I don't, I don't know, inclusiveness. No barriers to people being able to enjoy and work. Includes me. Include me all of you. Oh, you mean the festival? No, no, no, I mean young world. Do you consider this as a theme for some of your projects or some, you know... And we are quite open to all the different topics and collaboration. Yeah, I think we are very open because through all this year, we did production, like range from two puppeteers to 20 puppeteers in different scale. And also we tried like our classic novel, our western novel, our fairy tale, or we hire some script writer to work with us. So I think we are very open to all the projects. And recently we got many groups. They are not public groups, but they came to us, they said, maybe we can do something together. So recently we started to do a lot of collaboration with like music company or dance company. And I think in the near future, maybe like the high technology before they will come to us too many. Let me rephrase this question. Ask a little bit some different aspect of the same kind of subject because you know, this is something I've seen in United States, right? People of this color, people of that color, people of this ancestry, people of that ancestry. Do you recognize something like this in your own native culture? Yes, we do have some problem. Like we have many, many immigrants from Southeast Asian country. And people in Taiwan, they look down to their culture. So like the show we did last year, it's about like immigrant labor who were not treated well. So yeah, we do have, I think, we do have this kind of problems in the some, yeah, like social problems with, we divided people to different groups, or you know, intellectuals, you are farmers, you are labor, you are truck drivers, you are, yeah, there's certain expectation of all the careers. But I really like every time, I think every time Eric delivered the open space, he always say, this festival, it's open to whoever want to join as an audience. I will copy that. I use that in the future. I think it's a very good concept. Absolutely, thank you. Yes, so we want to like embrace like truck drivers because they don't usually go to a show in Taiwan, then I think never, or yeah, people clean the street. I think some of the community who come visit the village, I think especially fathers, they are surprised that there are things that their kids can play with creatively. And also they are surprised that, oh, wow, I mean it's like, I don't just get to see this from the West, I mean from television. Yeah, I can experience this with, I mean it's like fathers, especially Chinese fathers, they always very have that wall and that eagle, it's like the Great Winnai, I don't do these things. Yeah, so it's very surprising for me to see fathers put their hands and work creatively. Yeah, that's very interesting. Yeah, I think we had a question here. Yeah, kind of along those lines, do you have anything formal or a process for newcomers when people arrive? How do you make them feel welcome, but also how do you orient them to the norms of your community? And especially if there is a language barrier at all. Yes, we do have a process like people send the application and they got a step to come, but of course when they come, we have some information prepared for them about transportation or the local map or, yeah. And we first will listen to what they want to do here and we try to find a way to guide them to the right person or to the right place. Yes, and we will say to them, it will be like 20 to 30 minutes presentation, work in progress, so don't be very stressed about it. It's more about what you feel. Feel here and you express it through poppy tree. Yes, so, yeah, it's not too difficult this year because we have like one or two coming each month, so we can really talk to them personally. Yeah, and last year we had Julie. Julie, she's an artist from Thailand. Yeah, she doesn't have any poppy tree background and then she just jumped into it and because Jane really loves her concept and her idea and she used to design posters and pamphlets. Yeah. And she designed for our festival poster this year, yes. Yes, I think this will be the last one. So why did you choose Mother Courage as your next product? Actually, it's a project, the Mexican group, they proposed to us and for us, we never tried a classic script and the topic of war is always less touched in Taiwan because I think we are small island, we live quite like a calm and peaceful life there and war for us is like 70 or 80 years ago. And now young people are not familiar with that. So we end that show for teenagers because we found nowadays with all the internet teams at the games, the very attractive games, they just fall into that world but they neglect what's happening around the world because we are very separate, we are island. So we think this might be a good project to, we will do an exhibit with the production, there will be exhibit focused on how people suffer from war and the refugee problem. So young people get more sensitive to what's happening around the world, yes. I think the other thing, also the vision for China and the company is we create, we make a show, create a show of production and at the same time education is very, very important. So it's not just all, we just wanna do this and we just don't care about who are coming and how they can benefit from the performance or the production, yeah. Thank you. I wanna thank Diane and Robert and all of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.