 Welcome to the second day of the CNI conference, second morning, the hangover morning. I'm Todd Grapone, I'm associate university librarian at University of California Los Angeles and with me is Atricia Cruz who's at California Digital Library heading up the UC3, the data curation center at CDL. We're going to talk a little bit about a project that we've been working on for the past few months. It's a tool that we're developing to create data management plans, a simple online web form. Atricia and I are going to speak for, make some brief comments hopefully 10 to 15 minutes and then we really wanted to have an opening open discussion about the tool and it's what it's going to be and what it's not going to be. We're hoping to really engage the audience in that. We're really at a very formative stage in the tool development and we feel that getting some feedback right now where we are is really going to help us in our tool development. I'm really going to talk a little bit about the tool and what we hope to do, get some background for you and Trish is going to show some screenshots of the tool itself and hopefully that'll get us talking about the tool. So we've really been as an industry sort of talking about data for the past few years and we've been talking about it in a number of different ways and it really occurred to me as the NSF came up with their requirements in January. This was one of the real substantive ways that data is going to have an impact on the way scholarship is managed, the way the grant application is managed, this new requirement really forces people to consider these resources they create as part of their scholarship right up front and so we're taking that opportunity to provide some simple tools for the users and hopefully give them some ways, new ways to think and use their data. So what is it about data? You know it's sort of like this is kind of how we feel when we think about data. We're lion tamers out there working with large eScience data, lots and lots of digital humanities projects that produce lots and lots of small data sets. I would like to mention this data management plan online tool we're creating is a collaboration of eight institutions within the UC system. We've got UCLA, UCSD, CDL, but we also have folks from outside the UC system, University of Illinois, the Smithsonian Institution, University of Virginia and the Digital Curation Center. Am I missing anyone? Okay, but yeah so that's kind of how we approach it. You know the lion tamer metaphor I think is working really well for us now we're beyond the humor piece. So a little bit about the development so far. You know this all began with the Digital Curation Center in the United Kingdom had been working with their funders to create their own online tool and so I believe the requirements from funding bodies in the UK have been a little more established than they are here in the US and so they had been increasingly asking for these plans the DCC developed this tool and the tool is not only to develop a plan for stewardship how to manage but also stewardship of the data that's often irreplaceable so the DCC developed an online tool for use in creating plans for scholars. The tool is basically a comprehensive list of plan details that are required by various funding bodies. It allows a scholar to complete relevant portions to create a comprehensive plan according to their their needs and the funders needs. Now that we've got similar requirements coming in the United States we thought it was a good idea to look at their model and try to replicate some of the services here and if you look at the makeup of our group you'll realize that it's not just a .edu issue it's really an issue for all kinds of research and scholarly bodies museums and libraries as well as anyone who gets funding from a body that requires these plans and really the plan is a way for us as IT and library professionals to insinuate ourselves into the data discussion you know we are information organization professionals and I think I think historically the NSF has recognized a nice role for the libraries in what in the work they fund and that this is simply another way of them sort of saying that the library does have a role in the scholarship process and they like to see us involved. So they goal of the project is to streamline the process to produce a credible and high quality plan for managing data to develop a plan for managing data it's eight institutions coming together to develop a flexible online tool to help researchers generate data management plans leveraging the work of the data management plan online from the DCC and the tool development that we will do have multiple phases. Our goal is to have a usable tool that creates consistent usable data management plans because right now planning is pretty inconsistent the plans themselves I think if you read the requirements they're open to interpretation what the tool will do is allow people to interpret those rules respond to them with inline online help at the same time so institutions they do rely a lot on soft funding agencies have created a new demand in this data management planning piece and you need to meet the planner you don't get funded and so we decided to work collaboratively to consolidate expertise and reduce costs and really the goal of the tool is to begin helping researchers focus on the research not so much on requirements really taking some of the administrative piece away from the grant application process. So these are basically the components of data management plan you know it requires you to have content characteristics so you know a bit about your data you know what standards your data will live and work under access to that data you know what sort of governance that you see is important in sharing and reuse policies as well as archiving and data archiving so the funding agencies you know they have these data sharing requirements so do a lot of places you would publish so it's really you know it's really becoming an emerging issue for a lot of folks and we're hoping that the tool we create is going to be flexible enough to meet all these needs. A little bit about what it looks like at UCLA and this is just why I wanted to kind of give you an overview of how we see the data management plan working into the grant application process at a place like UCLA just to sort of give some background and ways to think about working with offices of contracts and grants or vice chancellors for research that sort of thing and we do have an office of contracts and grants at UCLA that oversees the process of applying for grants we will use this tool to insinuate data management into that process so by the application of necessary and usable tools we hope to influence the process of grant application at the policy level you know why do we really want to do that well first of all people need to need to develop these plans and historically the IT and library infrastructures of the institutes we represent don't really know what grants are being applied for what grants have necessarily been received on campus what the IT and data requirements are for those grants this is we hope that this is one salvo into getting us involved in that discussion so that as as grants are applied for as they're received on campus we may we can provide usable tools for people to comply with the data management plans as part of those grants and hopefully we can put some business intelligence and and do some planning of our own around what kind of research might be going on on campus and hopefully with this information we can determine what kind of what what data curation means for us and what kind of services we need to develop on campus the tool itself I think one thing to note you know from a UC perspective is that the tool should be flexible and open enough for us to integrate with other UC campuses and requirements so as things like easy ID develop and we work this into the we work this DMP tool into the grant application process you know you can see a shining path down the road whereas each grant is applied for they receive an ID and we begin to track them from application to funded project to published work with the same tools and we've been able to get the attention of research vice chancellors as well as the UC office of the president you cop to talk to us about this data data component of grant application so they're very interested in the work we're doing they're very interested in how they might utilize the work we're doing within their own administrative structure and I think one of the things that I took away from what Chris Borgman was talking about yesterday was really the the integration of technology and policy this is exactly the kind of thing this is exactly the integration of technology and policy I think that has a chance to open up some doors for us so step a little bit higher here and talk a little bit about what we kind of what we hope this DMP becomes so you know we feel that not only is their value in creating plans tailored for the individual scholarship but there's great value be gained by the larger world of scholarship from gathering and connecting these data plans we have a vision of a deep rich resource where funders and researchers can see what previous work has been done what previous work has gone on and in a perfect world where data standards and practices are known and can be used to influence project planning so within the data tool you'll be able to see previous plans you'll be able to see model plans that will include things like data standards hopefully some of these standards serendipitously will make it into new plans and that promise of standardization gets one step closer to reality but scattered collaborators require integration and tools some of the issues that affect research is metadata a reliable framework for mining multimodal data search engines and analytical tools and we believe that the DMP will become part of that research administration of landscape and hopefully part of the research landscape as well so this is the piece where I close my my talk and turn it over to Trish who's going to talk a lot more about the actual data management plan and we can talk more about my stuff later I just want to say that the data management plan is really not important it's the data that's important the data management planning tool is simply a means to an end and what we hope to get out of it is to provide a way to handle asynchronous long-lived conversations around data with our faculty on campus okay we're gonna shift gears a wee bit here and and drill down and take a look at the data management planning tool itself and when Todd said that we want your feedback and we want your help in shaping this tool is I would suggest it's to your benefit because this is something that is going to be available to the community at large both as a hosted service that you can come and use or you can take the code away and shape that yourself so it's really something that we think is is a service to not just the partners but to the community as a whole so basically as Todd said the DMP tool as we're calling it it will produce an editable document for submission to a funding agency that somebody who has to submit to NSF or NIH they can get a document and they can append that to their grant and they can go ahead and submit that phase one will provide the foundation for future releases it's really I would say it doesn't have all the bells and whistles we'd like to see right off the bat but we do think it builds a foundation for adding bells and whistles as we go forward and it will allow us to accommodate versions as funding requirements change this is early days January 18th was the day that NSF declared that that you had to submit a data management plan we don't know how those are going to be judged we need to remain nimble we need to create a tool that's going to allow us to to respond to that changing community and also be able to respond to new stakeholders that want to use the tool that want to contribute to the tool as I said it's it's going to be open sourced on bit bucket a little bit later I have a URL where the bit bucket places where you can go and look at the requirements you can take those away you can think about those yourself and one of the most important things in phase one of the tool that that was a drop dead requirement is the partner institutions needed to have the ability to do local branding and to contribute local resources when in this current economic environment it's really important for the for the libraries and the and the people involved in this to say this is happening on our campus in our library how can we help you and the tool itself it's not just all about technology and it's really taking intellectual input from librarians from experts on how to manage data and integrating that with technology in order to help the user and we see that there's four types of users of the data management plan or for and administrators or actors or whatever your word is for it there's number one is the researcher number two is the editor three is the funder and four is the institution and I'm going to go through some of those to give you an idea of how they might use the tool so in the next few screens I'm going to be showing you some wireframes that we've created for the tool based on the requirements these are as I said they're just wireframes so there's there might be typos there the text is going to change etc but I think it it will give you a better idea of what we're talking about so if a researcher wants to create a data management plan let's say we're talking about a researcher from the University of California wanting to create a data management plan this will be the first page they see the top there'll be some sort of branding that says this is the data management planning tool it'll tell you who can use the tool how the tool works and how to start on the other side of the screen and these a lot of these items will remain constant throughout all of the data management planning tool you'll see help we think help is going to be a big issue in this tool both help for the researcher what is a data management plan and also for librarians and and other stakeholders as they're learning to enter into this space I think it's it's we need to come together and and provide that level of help sample plans that's what we hear about already all the time can you just give me a sample plan that I can copy sure we want to be able to create a place where a lot of good and bad and just straight ahead data management plans can live the other thing we're going to do is create a news resource this will done be done be a WordPress will have various WordPress feeding into the news resource talking about what's happening with funding agencies what's happening maybe at institutions if there's another resource out there that we need to take a look at so once somebody has said okay I'm going to use this data management planning tool and they start to log on they get to this second screen and this is where they are asked to select the institution that they're working with and so that's and once they select that institution they get branding and in this case UCLA the UCSD libraries but also the UC libraries as a whole and the California Digital Library coming together to present this tool but as I said this is going to be a tool that's open to anybody can come and use this tool and they will get the generic branding but if you're a use a partner in this project you're an affiliated with one of the partner institutions you'll get additional help and links to resources that are at your own local institution so it's it's it's you'll get that extra level of help and also contact information for personal help the login screen will look slightly different once you select your institution because every institution has its own authentication system so I and I present this just because it's it's not a fancy screen or anything like that but it's one of the realities that we're dealing with in building the tool some people use shibboleth some people use LDAP so we really need to to be able to provide for that so now our user has logged in they've entered there there it's a return user and so this is what they're going to see they'll be presented with a view of their work and the options that are available to them number one do you want to create a new plan and so you'll see a drop-down box with all the various funding agencies that we have included in the data management plan itself and the NSF and the various NSF directorates but also NIH, IMLS and other funding agencies if you have an existing plan you can go back and then the second one there is an existing plan that you can see the status of you provided responses for four out of the five questions you can go in and finish that plan you can edit it or generate it meaning you want to finish it and take it away delete it comment on it if you're working with other people on creating this data management plan if you're working with a team they can come in and look at that and comment and and work together on it you can also publish that plan that's that part where you want to make that available to generally to the community at large the third option there and I think this is is going to be interesting to see how this actually works but I think it's a very important concept let's say that this researcher created a data management plan they submitted it to an agency and maybe they want to go back and use that plan again but you see that alert right there that says oh this agency has made some changes you know you need to think about it here's a link to the new agency requirements that you're probably going to want to take a look at so you can go back and make those needed changes on the far side of the screen you'll see the news again that's going to remain constant in on the generic pages so let's say that user is moving forward and said okay I'm going to create a new plan and so this is just a generic screen on creating the plan up top you'll see the plan type that's going to be created the question text etc you'll see the progress through the plan and and how far how far along you are but let's look at that other side of the screen and remember when I said if you're an organization and you'll have access to specialized help etc so you're the resources there are your institutions resources let's say at UCLA or UCSD you have prepared a tremendous amount of information on data management planning this is going to be the place to link to that information and inform that user about that information also I think and this is going to be very key is if your institution has a tool that can be used as part of the data management plan for example UC San Diego uses chronopolis this is where they can put a link to chronopolis the CDL we have a tool called merit it's our repository services this we can put merit or easy idea one of our services there this is also where you can have resources for the funder if the funder has specific information on this question or general information and then finally help on this specific question so let's look at it a little bit more nuanced version of that a little bit more filled out so this question is what is the period of retention for your data and this is the the help text from our colleagues at UVA who have are going through the NSF engineering directorate and building the tool for this you can see that the person is answered three questions or three of the progress through the plan there's the question help down at the bottom text that can be incorporated and then to the side you'll see the resources that are available the data management resources at UC or the funders or to the question specific help so again we think that it's really pulling all of that information together in one place the other thing that is going to be available to the researcher is you know and I kind of think that this is just give me the money kind of thing just show me what it is I have to do I just want to preview what those what the funding agencies are asking for select the funding agency to see its data management plan requirements and again this is pulling together just that succinct information to say you need to do X Y and Z and again I think it's will help the researchers begin to understand what the requirements are and what it is they need to do and again on the other side you'll see resources that are appropriate to this so that's just the screenshots in a nutshell of and I didn't go through all of them obviously because there's the generation of the plan itself and the format etc and I just want to summarize for this user type one what they can do when they use the the DMP tool they can establish an account view sample plans preview the funder requirements create save edit publish a plan view and use past plans that have been successful or not successful they can use help both generic help and at the institutional level and then view news and and latest changes and so this in this case it's a data one researcher and you can see there's a little corny mock-up of a data one DMP tool with I slapped the logos on them so the second type of user or actor is the editor and I think in a sense this is kind of the heart and soul of the data management planning tool this kind of the groovy editor and the editors roles and responsibilities are to create and maintain those funder templates to monitor what the funder is asking for that if there's a new funder that comes on on the horizon that the partners are interested in interacting with and creating a data management plan for they can create a new funder template if there's a new version as we saw in the data management planning tool if an agency changes you need to update and create a new version of that tool that's something that the editor will do and creating the question text and the accompanying help with that question text revise and edit as necessary and the editor is from a partner institution and we really need to trust this person because what they do is going to apply to everybody in the partnership and anybody who is using the tool so it's it's a big responsibility they have and so that's I'm listing all of the different people who will be contributing in this editor role down there at an institutional level I want to talk to really briefly that's a third type of user or person who will provide input on the tool and it's a range of partners I think as Todd was sharing in his earlier comments at an institutional level you have the libraries administrative offices data centers faculty and researchers interacting with this tool and on the UC campus it's the sponsor projects office the contracts and grants contracts and grants people don't want to be bothered with creating a data management plan they don't they don't have that expertise they're happy to work with us on that and they want to contribute to that the office of research the same UC last year received over six hundred million dollars in NSF funding they're very aware of this new requirement and they think it's going to be a competitive edge if we put something together that is going to help researchers get their data management plan out the door without having to get tangled up in all the details also IP the tech transfer people last week I got a call from the UCOP which is the main administrative offices for UC saying we hear there's this data management planning tool and what's our the IP issues related to it okay great so I you know I think there's a lot of people coming together in this area and it's it's and the why I have libraries bolded is because as a neutral and a neutral service organization on the campus I think we're uniquely positioned to bring these these various partners together to work together in new ways and collaborate the faculty that this is Jim Carey from UC Davis he is we've been working with him a lot on he's been submitting grants to NIH and NSF and he's given us an opportunity to really step back and think what do faculty need in this space and he's been very helpful the institution their roles will to create and maintain relevant information resource links to resources on their campuses institution specific information and tools and local help when necessary also generate reports so imagine if you're at UC and you have you have this somewhat database of all of the materials that have been submitted or data management plans that have been generated to the NSF engineering directorate for example you can go in there and look and get a good idea of what kind of data is going to be generated and if it's something that the University of California is going to have to manage for the long term I think it'll it'll help it's a first step in trying to understand what that's going to look like and also the institutions are going to be users of that tool so the fourth type of user is a funder and I think that this is going to be the trickiest one and one that we do hope will contribute to the tool whether directly or indirectly we think it's it's crucial to have funders be able to communicate with us about change to existing requirements or new requirements we're going to be very very dependent on that and we would love to engage those funders in such a way that we can have easy access to the information and that they can add resources about a specific funding program. As I said that we're going to start off with the NSF general data management plan but then drill down into the various directorates NIH we will also be creating a data management plan for that IMLS and the partners are coming together to brainstorm okay what are some of the other agencies USGS I know is very busy on creating their own requirements EPA DOE etc so these are early days but I think we need to figure out what what other agencies we're going to tackle. Just really quickly this is very tiny print but I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to the team who are coming together to create this data management planning tool where again as as Todd said we're working with the DCC I'm really taking a lot of the thought that they put into their tool and recalibrating it for use in the US and they are continuing to work with us and it's great because Martin Donnelly who's on our team he'll say you know I wish we would have done differently and so yes so we were kind of at that opportunity where we can we can do a next-generation tool. We're also working with the data one folks are on our team as well as as developers with that at the California Digital Library but then also UC San Diego is thinking about it from an intellectual perspective of what a data management plan needs to look like and UI you see somebody from their campus CIO office who is thinking about the authentication piece which we're very happy somebody's thinking about so this is where we turn to all of you and we we do recognize that these are early days and that building a tool that will satisfy the local and the general is going to be really tricky and it's going to be difficult to bring all those stakeholders together and get and get funder participation but we hope the tool will be available soon and we invite the group to participate both in helping us shape the tool and inform the tool etc and use the tool so I turn it over to all of you for questions at this point. Sharon asked when the tool is going to be ready we're hoping that the technology behind the tool is not too complex and so we're hoping to have something out the door in the next two to three months so and one thing that we would really like to ask the community to help us with is testing so that's not just our own internal testing but testing by the community at large and providing feedback so if anybody wants to volunteer for that we're happy to have some testers so. There's a lot of information that goes into these data management plans so we're you know what what we have to do is bring together a lot of institutional resources to develop the in line in context help and so that's you know part of it is programming but a lot of it really is the administrative information that needs to go into these plans and the and the help pieces that demystify what a data management plan is and help people really understand sort of the core requirements and allow them to develop a plan I think effectively and as quickly as possible so that's really a big piece. So we sample plans is right on the front screen and then under the DMP resources at the top that's where we anticipate that we'll have some sample plans and what's really surprising in within you see we've you know already cranked out a bunch of these data management plans and we've asked oh would you mind sharing those oh yeah no not at all great so we've seen people really wanting to share those correct yes I was wondering for the for those institutions that are not one of the listed institutions will there maybe could say a little bit more about whether the say I I don't have a repository if I'm from an institution that doesn't have to set up a repository or various services that for hosting and storing and preserving my data will there are you acting aren't you collaborating and coordinating sort of what's kind of what kind of services could be offered collectively through the people who are promoting this plan we haven't talked too much about that directly but I think among our various institutions we do have a lot of resources but also so I think collectively we will be able to offer services to the community to actually manage and store that data but also we think it's important to point to archives that are already existing within the community so for example data one as it starts to build itself up data conservancy those are places where we can point people to as a solution to share their data or open context for archaeological data etc so yes I think that will be part of what we do is providing those resources for actually managing the data and not just producing the plan yeah that seems like a really useful thing because I can't think of any other place that has a collecting point for what one of my solutions what can I do other questions has there been a need talk about costing models for once you have your data management plan approved as part of your grant what kind of charges would we be able would it help us to figure out what needs to go into the grant because once these data management plans are planned and accepted it's going to cost money to for the researcher to actually put them into practice and keep them up is there been any talk about costing models you take that then I'll follow it okay what we're trying to do at UCLA is as we go through the Office of Contracts and Grants the workflow by which the faculty member will apply for a grant will if they have a data management requirement they'll also get a series of questions about IT requirements and as our goal is to take both of those pieces of information through the process and when the grant is awarded there will be some knowledge on campus of what that footprint might look like for the purposes of the Office of Information Technology in the library in order to do some forecasting as to what kind of services we anticipate coming on to campus and that I think that's a really important question in that so the plans that we've already helped on we have a our own repository and we work with the researcher to understand how much data they're going to be generated just a best guess and then we can give them a cost estimate on what it will cost to have their data in the repository for one year two year three years etc. and so the I was very surprised in the people that we've worked with and have given them a cost number that they are like oh okay great you know they're happy just to have something that then they take that and plug that into the budget of their grant we within the University of California we really the working with the folks at UCSD and UCLA we really want to kind of come up with the United picture of what that costing looks like and I think we see that as as a task that we need to talk about sooner rather than later so but we have the pieces we just need to fit them together thank you may have said this and I may have missed it so forgive me if I'm asking something you covered but are you keeping track of plan revisions are you keeping track of commentary that might come back on plans or any rejected plans for lack of a when you say plan revisions do you mean versions yeah versions or you know if there's an early review and commentary versions of plans we will keep track of we can associate versions of various plans but it's going to be up to the person who submitted the grant to come back and supply that information on and we would love to hear that and that's something that you know we will will push on and I think that's a that's a great point to think about how we can get feedback and comments on the grants and have that in the if there's anything on the data management plan to include that yeah the exemplars yeah that's a good point just I was just wondering with the kind of a distributed model for updating and developing it like you were saying it a partner might be editing across all of the different instances I was wondering how you were going to synchronize that or update each separate install well and Todd wants to jump in here is we will have a production environment and a staging environment and we'll sync up and I we have not worked out the details of this yet but I imagine we'll say our will publish a new version of the tool you know once a month or as needed and all of that material that's in stage will move to production I think it will probably be a pretty straightforward process and do you envision opening it up to a lot of other institutions than our partners right now oh absolutely and that's like I said that we this will be an open source piece of code that can be used by anybody and our feeling is during phase one we just kind of want to get something out the door and scope it and then I think we'll kind of step back and say what new partners do we want to bring in and we would be happy to do that at that point to have more contributors contributing to the tool I would agree with that I think the the tool itself will be strengthened by the number of by each participating partner you know it's really a tool that becomes better as the more people use it hopefully we bring more examples about well-written plans more talk about data standards and practices across partner institutions and that hopefully will help us in the long run facilitate more data discussions I think this is really pretty cool this is a tool in the largest sense right so you have the data management plan tool that can be used to generate a plan but you've got all these resources around it so it's really a tool in the largest sense so the question related to sort of partners I think I heard you say members or affiliations so is your model that the partners would help develop the product or are you talking about sort of partners in this particular instance who would then be able to be trusted editors to contribute to this instance or would they it would be partners who help develop it and then the sources open and everybody else sort of takes on those different roles themselves what's your vision there I think all of those things are true I mean if you look at right now when we talk about partners we're talking about you know university libraries who are developing university libraries and museums who are developing data management plans for their faculty but we're also talking about participants who are editors within that process and these can be it personnel they can be folks in the library they can be people in administrative services but we're also talking about the funding agencies themselves going in and helping us develop and formulate the tool I think some partners will contribute code some partners will contribute information about plans some partners will help us keep the information about what requirements are current so we really think that as the tool grows these these roles will become very clear and as you access the tool to create a particular plan you'll be confident that the information you're receiving and the help you get is current up to date and exactly what you need is for creating this plan for this particular funding agency based on your personal needs within your school intellectual property and how this tool might relate to patent applications or commercial outcomes so each well so the tool will allow you to create a plan it is tied to your institutional identification you know you'll have to log in plans that are created are not by default made public so I think if you created a plan and you wanted to keep that plan as you would any piece of information about a patent application or project that's going to lead to some patented information you would you would treat that like you would any other piece of information that you would put in and put through the grant process so there's the plan itself but our when I was on the phone last week with the tech transfer people at OP they were getting really nervous that there was intellectual property that was going to be generated as part of a grant that's always been there and so and that's what I stress to the tech transfer office that this is nothing new the intellectual property issues of data that are generated as part of a grant you know it's it's always been a reality but I think when it becomes a little bit more focused a little bit more framed in terms of there's this piece of data that you need to save and share that's when the university gets a little bit nervous and so I think one of the things that we really want to do is to kind of tamp down that nervousness is to have them involved in this process from the get-go have them feeding and helping us shape the tool and I was quite pleased that they reached out to us and and because they they they're they're the experts and they can add that language about data sharing and intellectual property issues so other questions yes hi could you clarify a little bit more your response to the cost model question in because the way it was answered it sounded so you're just talking about storage costs not curation costs that's a that's a really good point and so within the University of California we are very much hoping to work together to keep our costs down and we're in the at the California Digital Library and the UC curation Center we have modeled our costs and we have a better understanding of what what those costs are but to the UC community our goal is to only charge for storage and so the the the cost for the actual management and the curation of the data that's something that we we at the California Digital Library are prepared to subsidize but the again these are early days and those are things that that we want to work with our partners on to better understand what that cost model will look like going forward so and yeah everybody when I don't know if we were talking about this last night is when Princeton came out with the data space saying if you pay 8,500 dollars you can store your well how much data was it half a gigabyte or I don't know half of something forever for 8,500 dollars we thought we heard from a lot of people that that was really compelling and so we would like to come up with a number that says if you pay us a million dollars we'll keep your data your terabyte of data safe forever so you know I think again we need to kind of get out our start doing some math and trying to figure out what that's going to look like so a couple of a couple of things over the past year or so I've been looking at data me and a few people have been looking at data on the UCLA campus trying to get a handle on what what researchers are producing where they're storing where it might be how much there is how many data closets are on campus and you know to anyone who's gonna start a process like that don't it's it's just been quite eye-opening the amount and lack of oversight you know really the information that I could get from our faculty based on their scholarship was really eye-opening and I think if we are to be successful with data curation or have data services as a as a library or a library IT combination it all begins with us kind of knowing what the data landscape on campus looks like in order for us to sit down and create what kind of tools and services that might fit on campus this data management planning tool is simply one step and one step that that can't be avoided by people developing scholarship on campus they need to create these data plans now for certain funding agencies this is the really I think one of the first times we've been able to go in and get some real requirements some real knowledge about projects as the projects develop as opposed to as you know after the fact you know I've published this here library please take it so I think you know the the notion of us working within that administrative workflow hopefully will lead to a much more a much deeper knowledge of what actually goes on on campus and so that hopefully will allow us then to create custom services for our own campuses based on the actual scholarship that's going on on campus I think yeah so I just I want to thank Trisha for helping me this morning and thank you all for coming we're out of time and if you have a few questions I think we'll hang out