 Hello, my name is RJ Reed, Ronald Reed. What we're doing today is having a discussion around the conflicts and issues that are going on right now since Black Lives Matter has emerged and the awakening of the diversity of America. The people I have with me right now are artists of different elk and have created, worked on, have an opinion on what has happened if it's not influenced themselves, recognizing what's been going on around them and people around them. So, without much ado, what I would like to do is just start to just introduce my people here panel, let you know about their connection to Maine and what they're doing right now, how they influence their society and their community of people, okay? So, let me start over right here. Sure, hi, my name is Tori. I go by Tori Lynn on social media. I work in racial equity and economic development and I'm a community advocate, so that's a really big and important part of my work and part of my art. And my connection to Maine is that I've grown up here my entire life, I grew up in Brunswick and like everyone, like lots of young people, I left for a couple of years and I said I'm never coming back here. And then my family is here, my friends are here and I found myself coming back into the state and now I live in Portland, which I really love and so it's allowed me to kind of fall back in love with Maine and yeah, that's my connection to who I am. Thank you. Oh, that's very similar to me, Tori. My name's Desiree Nicole Lester and I am from Born and Raised in Portland but I moved away when I was 18 with the mind that I will not be returning unless but my family still lives here and after a few years of living in New York and studying and working there and really moving from a small city to a big city where here I was easily known, very tall black person, it's easy for me to know everyone or for people to think they know me. And so yeah, it's nice to be back in my hometown to represent and give people someone to look up to. So I really like to take on new projects or inaugural kind of like art projects. So most recently here I've done some things with like Wayne Fleet School, my high school alma mater so I got to work with them and then Indigo Arts Alliance, I'm always kick starting new projects like the Nealing Man Art Photography Project with TT to see where it's come from one summer ago to now. So you'll see me around, I'll be in Portland more. So lovely to be here with you all today. Hi, I'm Natasha Mayers, I live in Whitefield. I've been an activist artist for about 50 years. I started after I came out of the Peace Corps, I worked at the state prison, I was the first woman they hired, I taught art and then I worked in the county jails and then I started the first bail project in the state and bailed people out and ever since then I've been involved with Nicaragua and El Salvador with injustice everywhere. I use many forms of art including my own paintings but I work with my community to create parades. I've supervised about 400 murals around the state where I facilitate the mural painting often about the history of a town done by the school and the community. I taught at Amhigh for umpteen years and I've worked with adults with mental illness for 40 years and I have a lot more things to say but onto the next person. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Sarah, I go by Sarah and I am mostly an academic, a real political wonk, more recently otherwise known as a political operative. I have worked in main politics for quite a few years, moved here in 2013. My connection to Maine was that I moved here in 2013. I grew up a very transient life. I had family in the military so that just meant wherever you were was home and I treated it that way so I moved to Maine and made some assumptions about it being my home. Maine taught me otherwise. As it does, right? So I currently live in Eastport and how I contribute to art is I have been a performance artist, I escape from a bright pink straight jacket on a pretty semi-regular basis now as we exist in our ways to produce art in the past 18 months. But yeah, that's how I contribute. I do very, very obvious political statement art. Excellent, but thank you very much. Thank you. And just a little bit because I haven't just told you who I am. So I've been in Maine, I'm from London, England. So that's originally where my accident in. I forget sometimes, but no one else does. I've lived in Maine about 20 years and I work now as a psychotherapist. I've got my own practice now and really wanna work with people of color as they generally don't feel comfortable coming into psychotherapy. So I wanna make that open to anybody that wants to come in and ask for help. So yeah, Bangor, Belfast, Orano. So I've lived in lots of areas there and graduated up in Orano, UMO as well. I just wanted to mention, recognized the diversity here, but yet the sense of people have been born and raised here. And so right here on this panel, there is a diversity of Maine, right? And I just wanna highlight that because it's a rarity. And when I first came here, I maybe saw three people of color, you know? And I was in the Portland area, right? And recognizing that there is lineage here, there is history here for African-Americans and people of color that have been here since birth. So I just wanted to start with that piece there. So just to center us, our topic of conversation is around art and artists, their role in resolving social conflict. How you use your talents to be able to find commune, to find a union amongst many different cultural, many different people. So just to start off with, I wanted to ask this question, and we're all artists in our own way, but I wanted to kinda ask this question first, and ask you first, all right? Yeah, yeah. In art, what do you think the role of the artist is in society? Okay. Yeah, big one. Great question, starting off with first. I mean, it's interesting because I think there's a lot of different layers of an artist. And when I thought about this panel and was invited to speak on this panel, my first personal thought was that I'm not an artist. I felt like I needed to be painting beautiful art or kind of making sculptures. And then I was thinking about it and a conversation earlier with Titi really helped too of the fact that I do a lot of community work and a lot of community advocating. And that's me being an artist in my own right, which I never thought of like that before. But I think the role of the artist is to really inspire and to motivate and to make sure that we are kind of forging this path forward, which is really how it relates to conversations of social and racial justice, of just continuing to move forward, continuing to kind of lead the troops and really paving a path for other people to come after you. And so when I think about the advocacy work that I do and really trying to advocate for black people, indigenous people, people of color, I think of that work of just going forward and making sure that I am paving paths so that people can walk down them easier than I ever have. So yeah, it's interesting to say like, okay, I guess I'm an artist too, it's cool. Avando. Yeah, yeah. Well, and thinking about, you know, we're coming into a space now where it's like, presidents and CEOs will be obsolete like kings and queens. So what's your title gonna be, you know? And that's what you get to ask yourself right now. And that's a beautiful question, a beautiful place to be in to feel like the work that you do is art. So just acknowledging that. Thank you. You know, and for me, I mean, what's been sitting with me as you know, what's the role of art in a space where you know, it's pandemic crazy and this month is, you know, someone's birthday that I love James Baldwin. And he really speaks on the role of art as capturing a piece of pain, you know, and how you can use trauma or places where you're stuck to like, transmute that pain or, you know, begin to share your story so that it might make the way a little bit easier for someone else. And so I think that archive of, you know, maybe something like a first archive, I remember reading of writers when I was a kid was like chicken soup for the somebody's soul, you know? Right, right. Yeah, my heart needs that chicken soup. You know, like, what's the soup today? Like we're asking today, like now we're asking, what's the tea? You know, what's that, what's that? What is it? So I think that's really, that's where I see every human as an artist, you know, you have your story that is linked to, you know, we all have the things that we go through and if you can take that and share it in a way, you know, that's what we're getting into right now. So yeah, that's beautiful. Just a link there, it's interesting because as a therapist for myself, what I find is that same kind of connection, sort of crossing over. So I'm a helper. So a helper is universal. If you're a helper, you're a helper, right? And it could come from anywhere if you're willing to be open to accept it in, right? So my art is to join with people, figure who you are and help you move along, whatever that might be and recognizes many diverse people that can help you. The helper. You're right. I'm also a helper. I know what language you're speaking, right? I'm a psychologist, an eagram, like, okay. So I'm a preserving helper, you know, so I'm all about the preserve. And, but I love like being able to have this language of, you know, but when you're speaking on help, one thing as a helper, I always think I know what's best, too, when you're offering help. So you also have to remember to ask what people need. So that's my helping practice right now. Yeah, I like it, yeah. Thoughts yourselves, it was a good conversation. Well, I really like the sort of like asking beforehand, one of my friends in undergraduates had something like a very similar, like you really need to like be in the place with the people who are needing the helping and hear what help they need. And he said, you know, one of the best lessons he gave me was stop doing the care bear, which was, you know, non-consensual helping, like, oh, I'm just gonna use all my power to help you. That's literally, you're right. So I've taken that lesson really internally. I am grounded in like, I am a wonk, so I love data, I love data in the aggregate, I like big data. So individual conversations are not something I usually delve into in helping conversations. For me, it's like, how is this going to be seen from a group? How is it impacting a group? How does it impact? How does working with an individual even filter through the aggregate? So, you know, my art, I escaped from a straight jacket, so my art tends to be like a little nerve wracking for people and I wanna sit with them in that discomfort and I want them to experience it and then I want them to have a conversation. I want that experience to stick with them so it's not just theirs, like it's a community experience. Like I saw this woman, she did a thing that really like, whoo, made me think. Yeah. Yeah, well, do you have an example of that? Because that's provocative sound, you challenge people, I know. I do, I do have a good example of that. The first time I performed in Portland was at the Mayo Street Art Center. And this wasn't a straight jacket escape, I did the classic burlesque balloons where you pop them. Oh, right. Right? So most people think that something's going to happen that's tintolating and exciting and glamorous. I filled the balloons with blood. And slowly popped them and made the crowd cheer for me in order to see more. And then in the middle of the performance, I collapsed on the floor and didn't get up and the curtain closed on me and I could hear from the audience, a woman saying, I thought I was going to be entertained. I was not. I felt uncomfortable and then I understood. And that was the best feedback I've ever gotten. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm comfortable. There you go. That's like, that sounds intense and I really want to come. I like to challenge people in my town every year in the fourth of July parade. And so every year it's another issue that's very relevant and in the news. And some examples are like the global warming. We take two sides of an issue. So we had the people who were advocating for global warming, like tropical fruit sellers and alligator hunters and the dermatologist and the air conditioner salesman. And then we had the people who were opposed to or worried about global warming like the snow plow driver and the cross country skier and there was a glacier that was melting. And so very humorously, we get people to pay attention, to learn something, to ask questions. We find that humor really disarms people and humor actually, it's harder to dismiss something funny than something that's very horrible and full of horror. So another example of that would be like we did something about the green new deal and people don't really know about the green new deal and a lot of people would be against it. So instead we did the green nude deal and we had all these painted nudes people were wearing and we had a lot of card sharks passing out, playing cards, dealing the cards out with information about what the green new deal is. So our role was to entertain and educate in a situation like that. And every single year we take another issue whether it's immigration or drones, surveillance and so on. I love that intersection, entertain and educate. I think this is really an important intersection because people are constantly wanting what's that next, what's that they want to constantly be entertained. But when you combine that with education that's real and tangible for them are part of their community, then things start to get a little bit exciting. To pay attention. Yeah, definitely, yeah. And that's the role I think of artists is to get people to pay attention. You know, it's to, artists, activists and community activists are truth tellers. And we reflect, we respond to the times and that's what we want to bring to people. I do it through my art. Do you, let me ask you a question. You know, being a seasoned artist that's been here for some time. So you've seen change. So I've seen 20 years and noticed a change in people's attitudes, people's awareness with the art that you're showing. Do you see a change? Do you see a improvement there I say? Well, I love the last few years of people connecting the dots. And so the issues are more connected. People recognize the connections. There's more allies forming between different groups to approach different issues. Right, yeah. So like next month, the environmental community is working with the Wabanaki Nation on issues. On an indigenous people's day. Right, yeah, yeah, beautiful, exactly. So you're a brilliant kind of capsule of noticing what is happening and what's going on in the state of Maine. And particularly around diversity in people and acceptance and in learning as well. So just to lead on from what you were saying there, the role of art as an educator, as an awakener. In the last two years, do you think the artist, the creation of people like us has really tapped into that? As an example, I talk always about oppression because I have people that come to me as a therapist and they talk about different forms of oppression. My oppression is about being a black man in America, right? And what that means and how I navigate through the world. So it's a silent thing until you get to talk about it. And I recognize the connection with other people's oppression. Because oppression is oppression is oppression, right? That's the university. I've got a great example of the change. It used to be that when you went to a rally almost on any progressive issue, people would not make signs. And when Trump got in, everybody wanted to make their own sign. You know, they didn't even want to carry our beautiful banners anymore. They wanted to make their own statement. Right, right, yeah, that's a good, yeah. See, that's a change right now. In art, that's art, that's their own expression too, of saying I have something I want to say and I'm going to put it on a sign and I'm going to hold it up so everyone can see it in my own way of kind of expressing my viewpoints, which I think is great. Because yeah, I spent like many of us, I'm sure we were at protests a lot in Portland last summer. Every week, I feel like we were having protests and rightfully so. And a lot of people, that was their way of expressing themselves, I think in ways that they haven't ever done before, which is in their own right was art as well, so. Yeah, it's an awakening, wasn't it? I'm thinking of it from the lens of, like my first art experiences here in Maine was, what's now one long fellow square, was the Center for Cultural Exchange. And there is a woman, her name's Toni Blackman. She came up from New York and she had an artist residency here. And so there's this history of Portland that has been hidden, especially the black history and indigenous history. And so now there's really no hiding. So now you can really see artist residencies and you can see a lot more artists of color coming to Portland to visit or hosting space or conversations like this. So now, I mean, that's the thing that I'm seeing, like in the past two years then, that I think is the most exciting, but also knowing that there are certain spaces that have vanished or disappeared, that stories need to be told by these artists that have visited in the past so that they can make it come to life again. So that's my own research that I'm starting to do. I'm getting into the space where we've all had time to be with ourselves. So I'm like, ah, I can really work for myself. I should work for myself. I should never work for anyone again. Okay, I'm getting into it. So that's where, you know, but yeah, but I'm also like, you know, I've got these great stories so I'm figuring out how to put them together. All right, yeah, oh, yeah. I'm just gonna stay with this one. So here's that lineage of people of color, I'm just gonna really name it, within America, within Maine, more so, that have this kind of journey that they've, you know, through arts, through their own history. I've noticed as well, so I've just started, just to put it out there, I just started working at Colby, just not the name plug, but the beautiful thing is, is that there's people from all over the country that are staff, that are people of color that are coming in. Yes. Right, and I know, you know, tell me if I'm wrong, I'm gonna say this is probably one of the first years that I was part of that, you know, crew that they did that, right? And you can notice, it's like a line, it's like an immigration line, right, of people coming in. So I think it's uncomfortable, people not quite sure, right? Yes. This is a big, something I want to talk more about. Absolutely. Because, you know, especially for you saying that you've been in that space and that line. And what Tori was saying earlier about like, I'm not really an artist, but this is what I do. So like this idea of recreating. So in certain institutions, I feel like now, they wanna leave black and brown people holding the bag, if you know what I mean. And I, for one, am the first to be like, no. But you know, I also don't wanna be so pessimistic. So there's two, yes, a big internal like conflict. It's like, am I gonna be able to, are you gonna be able to redefine the space, redefine the rules? Or are you gonna be stuck holding the bag? That's what I wanna know. What kind of bag is it? Yeah, yeah, that's it. Well, I kinda know what the bag is, but I'm a white lady, okay? Go ahead. I'm just gonna say it's not a good bag. She's like, I got the stuff. Okay, she's here to back us up. I am here to back you up. Please back it up. When we're talking about change and educating, what I have found as a person who passes as young, looks friendly and is white, that a lot of people do not expect to be confronted with things they need to change. They expect me to be sort of an ally in their whiteness. And that's wrong. That's a very wrong expectation. And one of the things I've really noticed in Maine is a lot of people rely on their adjacency to blackness to give them the credibility that they are not racist. While they are doing things that are very much influenced by white supremacy, but not examined. Brilliant, yeah. As a person in those spaces, some people have experienced my questioning that very thoroughly. And I think that's where the real change is, is that people are still very surprised by me doing this work. But a few weeks or months later, they're like, oh yeah, that was the whole point of like the 2016 Black Lives Movement. And then, oh yeah, the George Floyd, we were supposed to be doing work on ourselves. That's right. The whole universe aligned with you to get it done, people. Brilliant, yeah. And that's the awakening, right? And here's my diversity. So I was born and raised in London, England, not in America, right? So my experience of race and identity is different compared to African-Americans. And I will say that. And in some aspects, it's an advantage for me, right? And in some aspects, it's not. The way that I speak, right? Alone, alone, disarms people and they think that I'm something else, right? Then who I am on the phone, all those types of those things. So it's very interesting that you make that statement. One, because what I see is, in a sense, if you are a person that has been oppressed, then you know what that is. You already walk in the journey. And those are not to say that everybody's not oppressed, I'm not saying it's there, but that we're talking particularly about the color of your skin or even the gender that you are. That is the thing that holds you back because of society's ignorance, right? Naivety. And then making themselves as the ego, making themselves feel good because they can brush up against somebody that identifies with what is cool right now, right? Yeah, that's the kind of thing you gotta break, right? Well, I don't know if it's just break. It's a deep pain that requires some integrity to identify and give voice to. And so that is what a lot of people, they'd rather anger and armor up and rush around and feel the pain. So it's a choice, I think. To acknowledge who you are and where you come from. Right, in that way. Yes, it's my favorite. I mean, I love it when people here tell me to go back to where I came from now. I really do, I love it. I'm just like, I'm like, where are you from? Where are your people? I suggest you get in touch with your ancestors. I'm like, oh, is he like, where are you from? Okay, 200 years is not that long. Right, right. 200 years is not that long. Don't call yourself a native. And 20 years is not that long because I come from a white family and they would not call themselves racist but I have called them out as racist. So like, I see their behaviors and I see their white supremacy and they're one generation away from me. Right, right. So I, 200 years, 400 years, no. My dad is a problem. Right, right, right, right. I cannot call them. So I do have to do that work even there. And I'm not even gonna place it that far away from myself. I still have to do work on me and I have to hear that work from people who are giving a lot of their pain to me to say to me, you know what, Sarah? You need to think about that. You got a problem right now. And I have to interpret that as caring enough from that person to not let me walk through life ignorant and hurtful. Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah. So walking through that pain is pretty important. Right, there's something to be said just about generations, right? Because you are, you know, one step away. And I'm gonna start at this point. So going back, thinking about manors, right? And what they know, their homogenousness of what they see and then what is touted to them, right? And so if they don't have any challenge to that. So do you see the difference, not just your generation and your particular family, but that age group? So that's like my age group, right? So, you know, that age group of that unaware of what is America and what is going on here, right? Or what has been going on here? You know, yes, absolutely, yes. Well, I'm surrounded by a family. All the young nieces and nephews have been arrested, even my 80-something-year-old stepmother was arrested. You know, like we're kind of competing with each other who can be out there on the streets and take risks on all kinds of issues. And there's several people of color in my family. So we're pretty aware, you know, we get together and there's a lot of discussion that goes on and a lot of egging each other on to, you know, being out there and getting more informed and more active. Do you think that, you know, outside of your family, do you, what do you see, especially not living in... Because these are the people that you're talking to, right? Well, I live in rural Maine and half the people voted for Trump. The other half are quite progressive. So, you know, they butt up against each other, especially during those parades. Look at the sign. So it's very interesting that a lot of people will come and they'll hate what I do and what we're doing as a group, but they always want to come to see what we're going to do. Right. And there's the odds. Oh, goodness. But there's the odds, isn't it? You know, it's about waking people up and making them pay attention. And at the moment, what I find, you know, less my age group is that it's conflict. It's people picking sides and fighting. And especially, I'm just going to be, again, a therapist. As you get older, it's harder to shift your ideology. You get more kind of rooted in your identity and your identity of your society. So it's hard to change because you've lived this way for a long time and it's comfortable. So... I have a really good example of how I learned. After we started bombing in Afghanistan, I stood with women in black on the street corner in Augusta in front of the library. And we all held signs with words about it. You know, to pay attention and do something and, you know, get out of Afghanistan and stop making war and all that. And, you know, we got the finger, we, people didn't want to pay attention or anything. After that first year, we went every week, I painted enough sign, enough paintings for each person in the group to hold with no words, with images about war, with images about the trade towers being struck with all kinds of mothers and children. No words at all. And people came to us. It was a wonderful experience to know that images speak way louder than words. Words divide us. Images can bring people together. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, yeah, the universality of art, again, and the image and we suddenly forget our lines and when we see a grieving mother or a child, if we have compassion, you're gonna react to that, right? Brilliant, we think so. Again, generational, right? I wanna hold on to this, because again, as a clinician, what I find is, if I'm the younger people that I speak to, the more universal, the more diverse they are in their opinions and their understanding of themselves and of others on a whole array of subjects. And they're really aware of these last two years with the Black Lives Matters and an awareness of culture and race in America. I wanna just hand that kind of over and is it, do you see the same thing? Or in other generations, as they get younger? And in your generation? I think... I'm phasing out of it a little bit, but yeah, I think it's still mine, I think for now. I think it's still my generation. And I think part of it too is the level of safety because I almost feel like a lot of the people that are seasoned that I interact with that are very anti-any type of progression and are very, very against just anything that I'm advocating for in terms of inclusivity. I always wanna be like, you weren't like me, don't act like you weren't like me 25 years ago. But then something happened where you get older and you get more comfortable and you start to get more I think terrified of change. When you're younger, it's like you're going, I mean, like even when we were kids, like we weren't scared of anything. We were just like jumping off of whatever and like riding our bikes and going rollerblading and then you get older and you start to realize, I think just like these levels of just possible pain. And so you don't wanna dive in to the deep end of the pool anymore and you don't wanna kind of take risks anymore. You just wanna do the status quo. Cause I think a lot of that too, for people that are very like, I'm not doing that, I'm stuck in my ways. I'm always like, you were me, I know you were. Like don't act like there wasn't an issue that you were passionate about, that you were out there making your voice heard and advocating. And so I really try and just get people to tap back into that and like, yes, it's scary. There's a level of fear that is happening with just the world that we're existing in, especially when we're talking about race and racial equity. But I'm always like, what else are we gonna do? We're just gonna sit home and watch TV and we're gonna try and get out there and like make some changes. And so it is generational. And I also think there's a level of fear that comes with as you get older, not wanting to make waves and just kind of wanting to keep it easy. I would agree in the sense that you have more, don't you? I don't wanna lose my house. I don't wanna lose this. Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah, that's the fear, right? And so you don't want change, right? Yeah, in that sense. You know, one thing I think that's happened in this last four years is that young people and older people, because there's so many issues, fires to put out, just coming every day at us, that we're more willing to collaborate and work in groups. And the collaborative art process has been probably the best thing that I do that I've made happen. I create community that way. I created this group called Artists Rapid Response Team and we've made more than 400 banners for all the progressive groups in the state, more than 100 different groups we've made banners for. And to come together as artists to create something anonymously. We don't sign our names. We are each putting ideas into it. We're all, we're sharing all our technical skills and all of the ideas to create a group image. Intergenerational learning, you know, I think, because for me, I can't just say, well, I think that, you know, what I'm seeing is older people do this and you're, I find it that it's all mixed up for me. I feel, oh, I feel like I mother my mother now. I feel older than my mother. My mother feels, you know, it's like everything feels strange to me. My baby niece seems like a teacher to me. So I don't, I'm moving beyond the binary and linear conversation where it's this or that or, you know, so I'm trying to get into what I'm seeing. That's what I'm seeing shift because when you have intergenerational learning things, you know, they become a bit blurred, which is what I'm looking for, you know, moving beyond. I think that's why a lot of institutions, especially when it's around education or struggling because there was a moment where every educator had to say, I need these students to teach me how to use this technology so we can have a classroom together. So, you know, there was no escaping that. And I think that there was, there was no acknowledgement of what we were all experiencing. And like that lack of acknowledgement is what I'm really seeing, like as the space that that's starting to change. Like if someone appreciates something in their life, they're doing it more than ever. And people who want to be nasty and stuck in their ways are nastier and more stuck in their ways than ever. So, you know, for me, I'm, you know, trying to navigate my way, kind of like, you know, how do I start to find the story, you know, that where do I find the story that activates the 25-year-old and someone who's 85? You know, I gotta find that story and give it to them or remind them of what it was that they used to like to smell or wear that's gonna make them feel like they're 25 again and be out there, you know? Oh yeah, I was just, I know, yeah, it's this, firstly just to speak to what you're saying is, it's about being open to progression, right, to growth. And sometimes it's you and sometimes it's me. But I want you to grow just as much as I want to grow, right, and not having walls or preconceived ideas of who would learn and who wouldn't, you know, or categorized in that way. I think that's really... That's James Baldwin for me, it's my inspiration on that, you know, because it's like you can't hate the thing, you know, that has caused you the pain, you gotta find joy in that too. Yeah, you can embrace that. It hits the Gen X or real good. And I suppose just a little bit back to education and academia and what, you know, in that sense, what do you see? I know what I see, but what do you see in the sense of a progressiveness? And it's like from professors down to the students, all of those, what movement do you see? What I see is what has been described. There's this bag and somebody's gonna be holding it. The students that are coming in, the ones that, you know, the group of students that are okay, you know, the kids that are okay, they feel it and they embody that there is change happening and they're investing in a future that is better, chef's kiss better. But also those people who are stuck in their ways or comfortable or pain avoidant, raised comfortable pain avoidant kids. So it's really important to have these people come together and do work together. And I'm seeing a trend in faculty where there are a lot of, a lot more diversity, a lot more diversity recruitment, but people who are hired into those positions move, right? So they become like the diversity and they become the resource for diversity. So they are working with students, especially in the whiteest state in America, that are also very young and coming to a space where they are also the diversity. And they become, like the faculty becomes caretakers and they are not, that is not in the contract that they signed to teach, right? And you must know this as well because you've just come into this COVID situation. Right, yeah, but at the same time, again, I am a caregiver, so at the same time, I want to support what you do. That's his job on campus, so that's great. Right, great. So I put out extra in the sense of that, and I will call it that humans, right? My experience is, and I've only done one year, so I just want to highlight that, coming there, but it's an interesting influx of diversity coming in. And I keep coming back to this, it's like this line, it's like my dad, when he came to England, he was like, you know, first generation from Jamaica. And it was this line, wasn't it? You know, over there, these people coming over, right? And it was almost like they were standing on each other's sides, right? And when he tells me stories, I was like, I think it's tough, right? But you're also making history, so. Right. That's acknowledged that. Exactly, yeah, right, right. And staying power, because it's about another person of color seeing somebody who has a position of authority talking about, you know, depression. Talking about calculus. Talking about journalism, and suddenly it's very powerful. I know I feel it. When I go talk to a new member or someone and they are black and I go, this is what's going on, I mean, no. And it just feels good. It feels relaxed for me to be able to do that, accepted. And so that gives me staying power. It's an hour and a half to get up there. It's early in the morning. I don't generally like it, right? It's the winter. And I'm just like, why am I doing this, right? I don't care about the title, I don't care about it. Right, right, it doesn't mean nothing to me. But when I sit there and I see students coming in of color and they're sitting, oh, we're winning. Because they're relaxed, right? And they can talk about anything. They can talk about home. They can talk about their experience, right? And I'm not curing it for them. I'm like, I hear you. I know, right? And so they're not alone, right? That's the piece, you're not alone in this. And when I first came here, I was alone. It felt that way. Can I ask a question? Because I am not from Maine on this panel. My first black teacher was in elementary school. So yeah, I'm just curious. This is groundbreaking here that you are like a person of authority. Whereas being all around the country, people have more diverse examples of somebody who can be a teacher and somebody who can be a psychologist. And I think it's interesting to know from you that you're getting that experience and you both were raised here. So when was the first time you had a black person as your teacher? College. College, in New York. I was really in college for sure, I think. But there were some, but they were all coaches. Recreation or music or art, you know? So those were where the educators came in for me. But I think also my mother went out of her way to make sure. So she's like, all right, we got to get you something around here. I mean, let me look around. There was nothing. I mean, in leadership positions, I saw very few black people. And so now when there's a black person in any type of like healing or leadership position, it's very groundbreaking. It's the first of, like I've been the first blank of anything, like I was definitely like the, I was the only black person in my school until I don't know, probably sixth grade, I think. And then I was the first black person that my place of employment has ever hired. So like everything is like groundbreaking. I'm like paving these paths and like, we shouldn't have to, but that's how it is. It's just the way, especially here that it is. It's like the first black blank because we just don't have those levels of representation. And because of that, I feel I take this work I do that much more seriously because I'm like, there needs to be like a million more coming after me. And if there's no one paving that, then who's going to do it? And so, yeah, it's pretty crazy. Especially here, I think. Especially here. Because if there's some piece that has been hidden. So I think that there's something missing there that's still a much greater conversation of why the leaders, because I feel they are here, but the acknowledgement again, so the support because you're holding a weight that isn't acknowledged. Even when you're the only black kid at a school, you're educating all the time. And I didn't realize that until I was older, and then I got the chance to reflect. And I was like, y'all should have paid me because I'm just saying now what you invite me to do and what I do now, and I still continue to do for free, this is a problem, this is a problem. I was like, you know, and then I have to say it. And then I feel like feeling bad about it, but I don't want to feel bad about these things. It just should be the standard instead of having to justify or, you know, certify or whatever myself to be payable, or. So you're Ben Mao. Right. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, I like it. It's funny just to see it like in spaces though, and like when you're saying people are coming in and seeing you sitting there, people of color and black people, it's like, oh my God. Like, okay, let me sit down. And it's, yeah, it's just that level of seeing somebody else in a space that you normally would not, that is black. Like I was in Belfast on the water and I saw like, there was like one other black person and I was on a boat and we were like, like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. And we had like, oh my God, hey, hey, and it's like that. It's just like that excitement of being like, you're here, I'm here, this is great. Because this is kind of a predominantly white area and just not a place that we, you know, are often. And so I totally understand that feeling of like, when people see. Right, right. And again, and unto itself, that is the art, right? Yeah. And I'm gonna go on a limb. I think that people of color have had to work so hard that they are progressive. And I'm not saying everybody, but you know, because you're doing it already, right? And suddenly there's an awakening and you're like, oh, you see it now? What's happening? Yeah. I mean, there it is, right? Right, and suddenly. And so for us, it's like, you know, stage seven, right? Or something, you know, of this progressiveness. And so when I think about it, I think that, you know, I'm already like, you know, eight, nine, 10 steps ahead. We're talking about that equity. We know what that means, but yet we are in a situation where people still have to learn what that actually means. And that's frustrating. Wow, it's, we're creating new lexicons here. So instead of letting people know what it means, we're showing them what it is. And this is important. We're like, you know, English is business as usual, you know, it's not a language of love for sure. But, you know, so we could start to, I think that's what we're seeing shift here. That, you know, right now, we're just, we're using this transactional language. So if America, it's going to be a little hard to get past that. So, but that's why I think that visuals and video and art is coming into this space where, you know, I mean, I'm getting into the NFTs. You'll probably hear this from me first. I mean, I don't know if y'all know what those are. Anyway, okay, we're gonna get into it. But, you know, you're going to see these, you know, yeah, new ways of communicating with each other. And if you are knowledgeable and if you, you know, are paying attention, you'll speak a language, you're gonna pick it up, or you're gonna create the language, or you're gonna create the code for the language. And we're gonna, you know. Like Natasha said, then they come to you. Because you mentioned that with visuals instead of words. And then they come to you. That's why, yeah, it's definitely from what you said earlier. Yeah, those are gorgeous, cool. Yeah, I love that. So, you know, first thing I just wanna add, what a great conversation this has been. And this is what we're talking about, right? We have such a diverse group right here. It's like, you know, the smallest group you can have, but it's so diverse. Yet, how we can have a conversation, recognize the beauty of communicating art as a way of resolving conflict, right? As a way of generating thought, right? Even myself, and I'm amazed at just thinking about the, what are barriers? And how do we define those? And are we doing it? Are we creating barriers, right? So I'm talking about age, right? And I'm creating this barrier for myself so it comes out in my language and so it comes out in what I do. But yet, it's really about people, right? And us moving forward. Can I tell you about another example that really is dear to my heart? For about eight years, I worked with kids in Lewiston in the middle school. And a lot of those kids are from families, from away, from the new Mainers. And we had them in the Spanish class, we had them make these beautiful shrines about somebody that they had lost, someone who had passed, or about a country that had left behind a place. And so their assignment was to ask questions of all their relatives, their friends, find out what their history was and to make something that was actually beautiful. And we supplied just tons and tons of materials and the kids came every day and worked on it and worked on it. And in the end, wrote lots of love letters to the other teacher and to myself. Thank you for getting me to ask, thank you for getting me to know my history. Thank you for getting me to talk to my dad. I never talked to him. And he answered all these questions that I had. Thank you for helping me know my family better and knowing my history. And the kids each shared their stories, it was so visual and so exciting to look into each shrine that all the kids learned way more about each other and cared about each other's stories. And an artist's role is to help people tell stories, tell their stories and to listen. Thank you. Brilliant discussion that we've had just this hour and it's a shame that we have to wrap this up. But I wanna just thank each and every one of you for participating and practicing what we're talking about. And if there's one thing that I wanna leave you all with, recognizing that imagery, art is always kinda telling you a story. And if you're open enough, you can see what that story is. So thank you, all of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, chee-chee. We love you. We love you, chee-chee. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome.