 Jamie are you ready? We'll call the meeting to order for October 11th may have a roll call, please We lock Stephanie out terrible let the record show I'm sorry Stephanie Now you may take a roll call Councilmember Harlan here councilmember Bertrand here councilmember Peterson here hectic night Councilmember botter here and Mayor termini here. Would you all rise and join me in the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America Okay, we have some great presentations here and that the first one I would like to do is the proclamation honoring St. John's helpful shop Are there any folks in the audience from that organization come on up? Little report We have a city of capitol of mayor's proclamation honoring St. John's helpful shop Whereas the Episcopal Church of St. John operated the St. John's helpful shop in capitol of village for 65 years and Whereas the shop opened in 1953 to raise money for a new church carpet But over the years became the source of tens of thousands of dollars given annually to local nonprofits And whereas the shop resold Gently used items in good condition donated by parishioners and community members Helping the environment through reuse while also supporting the community and Whereas the shop was forced to leave its spot at the corner of capitol and Monterey Avenue When the building that housed it was sold now I therefore I Michael termini mayor of capitol on behalf of the entire city council To hear by honor and thank the many volunteers that made the st John's helpful shop a local landmark in capitol for over six decades. Thank you very much Thank you so much. I'm Tracy Wells Miller. I'm the priest at st John's and only been there about a year and a half so I can't take credit for all of this history But these ladies can so another round of applause for them They I want to let you all know that we do have a location for reopening now We're hoping before Christmas sometime late November early December. We don't have a specific date yet, but we'll get that out soon We're gonna reopen an aptos at 246 Center Avenue, which is if you know where Manuel's is It's right across the street from there and it's right around the corner from our church The its original location was right around the corner from the church when it was located here in Depot Hill So we're sort of continuing that tradition now by having the shop right around the corner from the church So we hope you all will come see us and our loyal customer base will follow us to aptos. Thank you Thank you ladies Okay, I want to bring a a gang of junior guards up here Ava Burke come on up Sky Davies come on up Sky not here. Okay How about Maddie Taylor Madeline Price Jake Griselli This is Jake's brother, right? Wow, okay, why not line up Tonight Ellie Ellie Griselli and Raylene Allen Okay, before I give these all out. These are mayor's proclamations to each of these folks for the 2018 US LA national lifeguard championships that we attended and This is the first year I think we've done this and we have been remiss and it's my apologies because there are Hundreds of athletes that have gone before these young athletes that have also earned this distinction And I hope that the council in the future. Yeah, you can applaud yet If I could have unearthed all the names easily believe me I'd have a stack of proclamations this high I hope this starts a tradition of every year at the end of the season The guards that go to nationals get these proclamations because I'd say that Possibly second to our police force The junior guards are one of the most important institutions in this city and that's the truth I'm sorry. They're they're just above the city council. Okay. Sorry about that. So Raylene Ellie Thank you Jake stand in Maddie Taylor Ava You won your event didn't you? This Sky is not here who wants to carry skies proclamation and one of my favorites Madeline price. Are you Brian's daughter? I Let me embarrass you You have two of the most amazing powerful parents and I've known I have known your dad since he was as big as you right so Everything that parenting should be you've got nicely nice job roll the dice and get in there Okay, do you want to say something? Thank you so much for all of your support It's amazing and I've been in this program since I was five and they all have to and we just cannot thank you enough For the past almost 40 years. So thank you And you know something that something that everyone might not know and that is what you're looking at here potentially in another 10 or 15 years they will be Coordinators on the beach being guards for new junior guards. It is a never-ending cycle. It's amazing How many of our existing guard coordinators started out just like this? So this is Truly a remarkable program. Thank you all Okay, Stephanie who Predates me here has something to say about the helpful shop Well, I just wanted to tell it remind everyone and tell everyone that this was the longest running business in capital of all time All time. There were some businesses that started way back when but they're not they're not in business anymore There have been many businesses started after this that have been there for a long time also But this is the business that was in Capitola for the longest time in our history So we'll put you in the museum and we'll have a special exhibit for you. Thank you very much I'm I'm going to give a one-minute recess unless all these young junior guards want to sit around for the next hour and watch Government at work. That was just a joke Feel free to leave the room if you'd like to go now I Pretty much pretty much We could do it with almost anything Except your car Okay, so much for the feel-good portion of tonight's meeting Let's move on to report on closed session Thank you, mayor termini the council had one item for a discussion on closed session this evening And that's the ongoing Negotiations between the city and the capital of police officers association the council received a status report from the city manager concerning those Negotiations and the council gave instructions to the city manager For the continuation of those negotiations otherwise the council took no reportable action in closed session. Thank you Are there any additional materials for tonight's agenda? Yes, we received quite a few public comments for item 2a which we just had we received one for item 10 a there were five For item 10 b there was one and for item 10c there were two including one that was received late this afternoon That is on the dais all of the additional materials are also available at the back of the room Very good. Are there any additions or deletions to the agenda staff has no changes We'll go on to public comments This is a time where you can address the council on items not on tonight's agenda Anyone who would like to speak to us for items not on the agenda tonight step right up Council members and city staff. My name is Linda Smith and I am here Tonight to sort of follow up on a letter that I sent early in July Commending sergeant Sarah Ryan for her commitment to the community her Professionalism her dedication to a high standard of service and exemplary performance as a capitol police officer Tonight I come before you to more publicly recognize Sarah as well as the entire capitol a PD But also to remind the community of the benefits of reaching out to our officers and partnering with them as I detailed in my letter Sarah was instrumental in helping the community resolve a recent complicated Disruptive and dangerous situation in the jewel box neighborhood that started in May of this year During two informal community meetings She provided leadership for a positive and productive discussion of the issues the legal implications and the potential outcomes and She educated residents on departmental policy with regards to the situation She engaged residents and county agency and court officials in a cooperative and progressive partnership The situation reached in my opinion the best possible outcome on October the first this would not have happened without Sarah's efforts But I'm here tonight not not only to recognize her in a more public way But the larger police department and and its leadership as well Several of our capitol officers including Sarah have been here since the beginning of my tenure in capitol We've had multiple police chiefs multiple city councils and our officers have always been quality Under the leadership that sits before me now in the council the city manager and our current police chief Terry McManus I believe that we have an exceptional police department I was privileged to experience a right along with one of our officers as part of a city academy that I attended He has since been promoted and remains an asset to capitol We had a potential home invasion at our home on prospect I wasn't home when the alarm went off so the officers were on site when I arrived only a few minutes later Sarah was one of those officers who kept me safe while they secured my home That was my first encounter with police officers other than a couple of speeding tickets and it sort of set a standard I witnessed an arrest that required forceful restraint of an uncooperative individual who had put the community at risk The officers that were involved in that were exemplary. I Saw bystanders Disrespect and heckle officers as they dealt with a known gang member during a traffic stop that involved a search Their training was evidence as they remained focused and unreactive to the insults while keeping everyone safe These encounters happened over many years, but in all cases our officers handled the situations well Hiring quality officers Keeping quality experienced officers and maintaining departmental policies and leadership that set the standard high Are what distinguish capitol apart from other departments? We have a long-standing track record for doing those things here in capitol I wanted to share my experience with the community and remind everyone that you can work with our police officers We're privileged to live in a community where it's not us against them no matter what your gender your ethnic Ethnicity nor your income level During this time of distress distrust and division in our country I am proud to say that we have the leadership and the quality officers to partner with For the community don't be afraid to reach out to them To our officers. I want to say thank you for what you do every day Don't underestimate the benefits of reaching out to the community together. We can solve issues and To you capitol is leadership. I want to say thank you Thank you for making our police department a priority and for keeping capitol a safe and quality community to live in Thank you. Thank you, Linda Yes, sir My name is Jean Bernal them 406 grand I got a notice of tonight's meeting yesterday, and I had to rearrange a whole bunch of things I realized that sometimes Agendizing items get done at the last minute, but I'd appreciate it if any item that affected Especially people like me who this is a second home and we have to travel a distance I'm sure there were others we get a little bit more notification. Thank you. Thank you Would anyone else like to address the council on items not on this evening's agenda? Then we'll go on to city council city treasurer and staff comments staff. Do you have any comments? I don't think I have any comments at this time. Very good. Mr. Treasurer Thank you mayor termini. I'd like to point out that we have a financial advisory committee meeting that's going to be scheduled October 23rd, and I want to point out because it's got two interesting items on it that you might and the public might want to attend First is there's a surplus not a surplus, but the library trust fund as you know measure as I guess as money's come in and Our finance director Jim Alberg has Some ideas since that money isn't going to be spent all at once And there's probably about four million dollars that he can come up with that We won't have need to actually utilize for about 18 months. He wants to present the to the faxum creative ways Maybe not not Vegas, but some creative ways to invest that money and maybe get a little little interest on that income The second item that we're going to discuss is the notion of increased powers of the financial advisory committee In the anticipation of the possible passage passage of measure K We may want to rethink and formalize the financial advisory committee's role So we're going to discuss both those items. I think they're both of interest. Thank you Thank you council No comments Kristen. Yeah, just briefly the Capitola Foundation had their charity annual charity golf tournament last Friday It was a wonderful event and I want to thank everyone who participated and volunteered Really the the volunteers make that event happen and it was wonderful as it is every year Very true. Thank you jock So I want to thank Linda Smith for coming up and Also want to Mention that several times I get comments from the public about things that they're very happy about and Staff has solved a problem or come to their aid or done something else that Basically was very important for them and recently I did get one and I passed it on to the manager in charge And I think he was very happy to receive that so anytime something happens and people in the public are happy about it It's just like any of us. We want to know when we did a good job. So thank you Stephanie wanted to give a quick report on the annual League of California cities conference that I went to in Long Beach from September 12th through 14th It was very very interesting They had a lot of very very interesting topics and as always they're open to new topics if any council members or cities have Any requests for any topics? So I went to one that was the benefits of diversity and municipal management It can happen to you harassment claims against city officials, which was very very interesting hadn't hadn't thought about that Coastal cities had a meet-up and they had a group talk about some of the issues that are before us coastal development erosion growth water all sorts of things How to overcome obstacles to pass your sales tax measure They had a lot of sessions for the city attorneys strategies to manage increasing pension costs and Unconscious bias, which I want to want to talk about for just just a minute and the the diversity Issue was very very interesting. It was the benefits of diversity and municipal management And it says when it comes to your city management staff, do they look think and speak like the residents you serve? Having a truly diverse city staff can speak like them can lead to some enormous benefits such as Creative problem-solving and the growth of a flexible collaborative and inclusive work environment The more your community can identify with your staff the better your public engagement can be in this session Our panelists will share why they value diversity in their staff and how to grow a diverse workplace So the speakers were Paul are a volu from City Manager of West Hollywood Laurie Laurie Sassoon from Rancho Cucamonga and City Manager of Stockton and their basic premise was that if we are inclusive to everyone if we look like the community we can increase our talent pool and Only 20% of the city managers in California women. So they said how can we get more women? Involved in leadership positions and in some of the positions that traditionally are male dominated How can we get more women in wastewater the whole wastewater industry and working in a municipal wastewater facility? Why not and Talked about strong mentoring and coaching and things like that. So I'll give you more of an update next meeting That was very it was very interesting Very good. I Think we've had a meeting since the beach festival. It was a great success a lot of locals the fun run was good And the lighted float parade was beyond our expectations with No casualties, so we like that and it was it was very exciting and it was low-key And it's exactly what we were looking for which was a replacement for the Bagonia Festival that didn't drive us all crazy on Labor Day I would like to thank the Monty Foundation the fireworks were brilliant amazing They are so generous and their efforts are helping to fund the children's wing at the new capitol library The Monty Foundation always comes through and always supports our city and I appreciate it I want to thank the capitol a police department for both those events the beach festival and the fireworks You kept streets closed. You kept folks safe. We had no I don't believe Incidents or issues in any of those events, which is always nice to say and I want to shout out to Capitola Public Works Where if you didn't realize it before the Bagonia Festival and the new Beach Festival would never take place Without public works that is the truth and I saw it for the first time up close and personal You have an amazing cruise. Steve just remarkable That so let me just before we go into the The rest of the agenda here. Let me just note a little bit of housekeeper tonight We're using our card system throughout the night, which means green cards are one minute Yellow cards are two minutes red cards are three minutes of speaking We will take all the green cards first, but you'll be restricted to one minute We'll move on to the yellows then the reds If you want to speak get one of those cards and fill it out now. It will save a lot of time up at the podium so We will now go on to our consent agenda item Oh, I'm sorry. We missed our museum board Please have a city clerk museum board appointment yes Earlier this year the council added to the options for membership in a number of our advisory bodies including the historical museum board to allow Youth membership and we have a youth applicant He met with the museum board just as any applicant does ahead of a Recommendation and they were very impressed with him. His name is Joshua Henshaw He is a student from New Brighton Middle School and the board of trustees of the museum is recommending that the city council Appoint him as a youth member to join them. Is Joshua here tonight? Why don't you step up to the podium Joshua? We'll break you in we'll break you in well Yes, you can Dave Introduce Joshua we were indeed impressed and and again I'm Dave Peyton and a member of the museum board along with Pam Greninger here as well tonight, but We were we were really jazzed. We got a chance to meet him He's an interest in history certainly 15 years old got a lot of interest no doubt We're just as interested in getting feedback from him Getting his input and finding out about what we can do to attract young people to the museum So it's a it's a nice fit for us But before I let him say a word or two I want to also say a good. Thank you to his mother because this is an opportunity where the parent has to be with the child Child sorry with the young man The minor the minor minor. Yes. Thank you So thanks to her as well because it takes two of them to do this, but we're delighted I don't know if any of the other commissions have yet gotten a Student, but we're delighted with Josh. Did you want to say a? Welcome Josh. Thanks. Well, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. Very good, but stay right there There's been a recommendation. Is there a motion to approve this motion to approve recommendation second all in favor I opposed unanimous And Josh if you stay to the rest of the meeting you'll recognize that a unanimous decision is not always the way it goes so We'll move on to the consent calendar actions taken as a single vote We have regular council meeting minutes and annual donations report. Is there a motion to approve consent or does anyone like to pull an item? Remark how this city is quite privileged to have so many donations. It's Very impressive. Yeah, is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? No, Jock your second. I'm second. All in favor. I opposed we'll move on to general government public hearings And we'll have a report from public works on the jewel box traffic calming options. Welcome Steve Good evening, Mayor and Council and before you is a further report on Jewel box traffic calming all options. We've been working on for the past couple of years Well a quick I just wanted to give you an overview of Kind of a big big picture of what what the issues are here. So we're all familiar at the map This is the kind of the formal jewel box and this yellow line identifies what we've called the greater jewel box area and these red lines you see coming in our major arterials coming from the west to the east that all could lead into The jewel box neighborhood the greater jewel box neighborhood and for the most part we have Broma Street, which turns into jade Street Capitol Road, and then this is Portola with an access point along 47th Avenue all these major Don't want to use word commute routes, but heavily used routes in the evening I'll end up going through the greater jewel box neighborhood, which is primarily residential neighborhood residential streets Where they're going to is kind of a combination some people are trying to go out Warf Road to go to Soquel Drive and then we have to increase the people trying to go through the village across Stockton Avenue Bridge So that's the picture what what the problem is and what we're trying to to resolve So on June 27th of this year, we held a workshop at Jade Street Community Center To kind of flush out some ideas with the members of the public and get their input was attended by approximately 50 residents In that workshop we reviewed kind of the existing conditions, which I just showed you we included pictures of what? Traffic calming measures are are in place and we also reviewed survey results from a survey We did approximately a year ago kind of on the same subject matter We presented traffic calming options To follow the the three ease you hear with traffic calming education engineering and enforcement Again, we presented options and examples of those traffic calming Methods that we could implement and then we we did some straw pulling and took some comments and recorded those so From the polling results we identified in the workshop Some short-term options, which means they're probably something we could implement relatively quickly went involve a lot permitting costs are sometimes a little higher than other costs, but This was the results of that so the education effort and that's where you hand out pamphlets You try and go door-to-door and talk to people and That didn't get a lot of support. I think because of the nature of the Problems here a lot of people are out of town live outside the neighborhood or using the area So anyway, I got zero percent support. That's pretty strong Enforcement got a 60% support and that's to be Understandable everybody like a policeman at their corner at all times Enforcing it obviously that can't be done I think the police department does an excellent job in trying to move around where they do traffic enforcement, but certainly increased traffic enforcement is something that Everybody would like and including those in the greater jewelbox neighborhood Next we talked about neighborhood signage. I have examples of these coming up in a minute Especially this one. That's where you you make sure people realize that they're traveling through a residential neighborhood They're no longer on an arterial street. We did we've done this type of signage in the Riverview neighborhood and had some success It's all qualitative Experiences we didn't have any traffic data to compare but So neighborhood signage received a 60% support We talked about additional speed bumps or speed humps Those are the kind that you see on 45th 47th and that and 49th Avenue They are designed to slow people down below 25 miles an hour And those had 40% support. I also talked about speed tables and speed tables are Same as speed humps except they're flat across the top and kind of spread out and they're often used in conjunction with Crosswalks, so it gives you an opportunity to slow people down at a crosswalk Particularly on Jade Street, you'll see in a minute. Those were Received 90 90% support to do that studies have shown that speed tables and speed bumps probably Deflect upwards of 20% of the traffic people decide They don't want to go the speed bumps and they'll go seek another way. Obviously, that's Traffic studies, we don't have any data to actually see what it may do here But that's what they show. That's what we talked about was bald outs It's narrowing entrances and exits from at intersections, so people have to slow down more You typically Slow it down to about a lane in half so that there's yielding that goes on in there. It was only received 25% We then looked at some mid-term options. These ones probably take a little longer to implement or as far as studies or costs or impacts Turn restrictions and what we're talking about here is is restricting certain turn movements during the commute hour And I'll talk about that a little bit more in a minute, and then we also talked about one-way streets Certainly that's something we looked at a great length in previous work on this project and only received 25% support at the at the workshop Then there were some long-term options these are either expensive or require a significant amount of studies and Impact reports that would need to be done so as road closures for half closures both within the jewel box itself or the streets coming in signalizing intersections One of the you know reason people are going through residential streets is the arterials are aren't working One way to improve arterial flows to take out four-way stop signs and put in traffic signals And then the road closure on Jade Street Park, which is something the council specifically asked us to look at You can see the turn restrictions going back in the term received an 80% support the one-way streets a 25% Resupport the road closures and the signalized intersections only received a 10% 10% of support and the road closure on Jade Street did receive 60% support So looking at the recommendations that we're making tonight the first would be to Institute some neighborhood signage and I give an example of the signage here It just warns people that they're driving through a residential area asked them to slow down It's hard to measure the effectiveness of these You know, I don't think they're They're not a panacea. They're not going to solve the problems by themselves, but there is something in the toolbox that helps people Recognize where they're driving and they're no longer on a freeway or an arterial The map over here shows arrows where they could be installed. This is all the entrances into different neighborhoods I think initially I would want if we move forward we would focus on here Which is where Jay comes up and people go down 45th and they're entering the jewel box and probably the one down here on 47th Avenue at Portola The other idea is to install The speed tables that I talked about there's a picture of a speed table speed tables can either be Made of rubber something it's pre pre made and sent to the site Or it can be built out of asphalt the actual price is about the same for each one They're you know anywhere from 15 to $20,000 a piece to install One advantage of maybe using a rubber one as it could be removed more easily Or moved if we didn't quite get the location right I do think the asphalt ones are probably more durable if they're going to be there for the long term The map shows the proposed locations We haven't you know nailed it down to the exact foot of where it's going But we've proposed to along jade Street since we want to include crosswalks in these I'd try to incorporate a good place for the Trade wins mobile home park here to be able to cross And get across the street there and then one or near Ruby Court and to prevent people from coming here so I don't want to drive down the street and kind of a 42nd Avenue, which again I'm back to capitol road. We recommend one on 42nd Avenue to Looking at the the midterm options the commute turn restrictions First the locations that make the most sense would be on 47th Avenue where people come here on Portola Wanting to go east through the village and this as we all know backs up and certainly can back up to this point And cars are turning left in onto 47th Avenue going through this residential neighborhood Trying to find a way out. That's less impacted The other one is the primary route is coming down jade Street turning left onto 45th and immediately, right? It's more of a dog leg on to topaz. So if we were to restrict these turning movements From 4 to 6 p.m. No left turn here or a no right turn here It would be the start. I will say that these these type of Traffic calming measures are really largely dependent on enforcement actions by the police department I think if we put them up you want out enforcement will have some compliance to begin with is if We don't have sufficient Enforcement over time people realize that the Science don't mean a whole lot and we'll probably return to the state we're in now So that's one thing to consider with these the long-term options We talked about really signalizing the intersections on Capitol Road at 49th and 45th That would help the level of service of those Obviously, if we really want to solve the problem We're going to have to look at the whole commute route through Capitol Which involves Stockton and Espinot Stockton at Wharf Stockton and Cap have and I don't think that's anything Anybody wants to do is encourage more commuting through Capitola, but it would You know help alleviate the congestion we see along Capitola Road, which is forcing people into the neighborhood And then the road closures along Jade Street. We talked about potentially closing the eastbound Direction of Jade Street at 41st Avenue Certainly something that the you know as I said 60% approval at the workshop It has big impacts It obviously changes the level of services at other intersections Capitola Road and 41st would be impacted Portola and 41st going into the county be we impacted Kimley Horn a consultant assisting in the city with this project did look at the traffic studies made some preliminary Estimates and it looks like at least the intersections that I've just mentioned would be go from a level of service C or D to E So that would Again mitigate would need to be mitigated as we go through it and that's where we get to the signalized intersections at that point So they all kind of would end up tying together Obviously is very expensive and very long-term projects that we would need to work on So quick advertisement for traffic counts by May that The studies we've done today are based on a snapshot of 2017 traffic comp counts. We took long topaz opal and jewel We've incorporated other data. We've got collected along the way from other Projects such as the general plan update that has traffic intersection counts from 2013 in it So it's a lot of older data And if we were really if we're interested in measuring the effectiveness and coming down with hard answers and how much Traffic do we have how much do we move around? We'll need to do additional studies And the cost for that is probably 10 to $50,000 depending on what kind of information we really want to get at Finally costs and budget So neighborhood signs and speed tables I've messed any $50,000 that's for three speed tables and some amount of signage Turn restriction signs probably 10 to $20,000 relatively inexpensive On the on the capital end again, there are potential service level impacts with the police department and then the traffic signals and road closures and I Easily could spend at $800,000 trying to move those projects forward So at this time no funds have been budgeted for this project. So if we do get direction to move forward Our recommendation will all get straight to that is to develop this direct staff to develop plans for Increased neighborhood signage and speed tables installation on Jaden 42nd Avenue We would bring those formal plans back to you and then for approval and then identify Budget resources at that time. That's my report Council questions of public works Ed Christian So you're talking about level of service and potentially doing studies with the What is the impact of the crossings like the tables the signage? I get the sense It's not going to trigger a study at all. You can see that's pretty low Excuse me. Yes the the speed tables and things like that wouldn't impact the level service It doesn't wouldn't redirect a large volume of traffic from one intersection to another So I think those would have negligible impacts and that's something we'd have to study. Okay. Thanks Clarification on page three of the staff report talking about installing speed tables on Jade Street He said some negative at the last sentence of the first paragraph some negative aspects of speed tables include increased traffic noise near the hump and Increased emergency response times. It should be decreased. I believe Yes, you're correct. Thank you. It's gonna decrease the emergency response time. Yeah any impediment Yeah, it's increased better than speed bumps and we have talked to the plea the fire department when we're looking at initial studies And they would support Good Speed bumps at that point Is that good Stephanie? Oh increase response times. I yeah, right. Yeah, so the response times would increase in length So that actually is a correct statement. If you put in a speed table the response time increases Yes, slows down. It slows down the vehicle takes them longer to respond. That's an increase in Yeah A couple seconds. Yeah, it's beat speed tables are go over you can go over much higher speed than you can on speed bump Do we have any speed tables around here? The only one I know about us at Manetta International Airport? Yeah, those are giant ones. Yeah, I I do believe they're insane. There's some in Santa Cruz I'm not sure where the line. I know I've driven over from there before but on the west side there We will now open this up to the public and I've received several emails that people were asking us not to put barricades up Let's be clear barricades are off the table. So we don't need to talk about that. So please line up Let's see the green cards. Who are you anyone? There's a green card lady. I just want to say thank you for having the taking the time to do the Workshops. I know that a lot of people attended I did not but it was a good opportunity for the neighborhood to come out And really talk about it. And so really appreciate that Great. Any other green cards? No? You got to pick a color card Good. I trust you Good evening city council. I just want to thank all of you and Steve for stepping back Asking the neighborhood to get involved. I was delighted at how cordial and Problem-solving the neighborhood was when presented with opportunities versus costs. And I think you've got some good Directions to give to staff once you find the money. Great. Thank you. Thanks Rose Green cards anyone? I just want to fully support the staff's recommendation and once again great job going through and and bringing in the full Neighborhood on this. Thank you. Thank you. I suspect you two fellows have red cards Okay, you're gonna. It's gonna take you a while. So you may as well have a seat Are there any yellow cards out there? There we go Welcome a good evening. My name is Bill Gray 1440 prospect and I would like to thank the council and Mr. Jesper for the analysis and the recommendations. I think we're about where we need to be It's been a long time getting here But I think the least invasive Evasive approach and the most neighborly approach is where we should should be on this one so I encourage you to move forward and My only reservation is the relative lack of mention of enforcement as it relates to the neighborhood signage And I would say parenthetically That My home was burglarized two years ago Prospect Avenue and outside of neighborhood resource officers. I have seen Two police vehicles go by my home in the last two years So I think increased enforcement in the jewel box would be appropriate and I believe we look forward to it Thank you. Any other yellow cards? There we go Welcome. Thank you. Good evening, and I would also like to thank the council for taking the time to deal with this issue I know it's been a long slog and We're very appreciative of that That being said that we have talked about this at length on Topaz Street. I'm Jim Hobbs I live at 4590 Topaz and While we are appreciative of the Direction of this we Really would like to see the signs redirecting at the end of Jade Street and redirecting at 45th and Portola The the community Signs that say this is a community really are there's no way of enforcing that and and I know Alan is going to Elaborate on this much more eloquently than I will but I would just like to put in my two cents worth and also to say that in the Kimley-Horn Report here they say that There's a 50% violation rate if you just put up the signs and you don't enforce them And they almost say that like it's a bad thing but From where I'm sitting on Topaz Street where we had a count of 1200 cars a day Well if that drops to 600 I'd count that as a major improvement And if there were enforcement, and you were handing out, I don't know $200 a Ticket signs to 600 people that's 12,000 bucks right off the bat So, you know it looks like the signs would be pretty easy to pay for since that's the least Expensive and also the least intrusive way of going about this. I'm also very supportive of the speed tables I think that will do a lot to help the people out there on Jade Street and crosswalks are definitely needed out there. It's a You know you can take your life into your hands trying to get across to the To the Civic Center and the playground and all of that that's down there, so Thank you very much, and that's my two cents. Thank you and for the record We the city does not make any money on moving violations So it's a $200 ticket sounds like cash cow. We're not making any money on that Yes, please step up. My name is Cindy Kess. I've been a homeowner on Topaz Street for 38 years And have been attending the workshops community workshops traffic Commission meetings city council meetings related to the traffic calming measures This is my first time speaking and I want to thank you all for the work that you have done, especially Steve and I Pretty much. I'm going to reiterate what Jim just said. I too feel I'm very supportive of the traffic tables on Jade Street Having the community workshops have extended this whole thing beyond our original Topaz issue and I think that the Possible 20% of People who will not be using that will have a direct effect on us But I'd also like to suggest that the no-turn signs Be put in place as a short-term measure rather than a mid-term measure because I think that we will actually see some effect on Topaz and one of the things that was brought up Yesterday at the traffic commission is that if there are time restrictions on those streets Ways, which is the app that directs people to shortcut will That will be known to people who are commuting that they cannot make those turns at that time I think that's important and I I also agree that the short-term option of putting in neighborhood signs is probably going to be a Waste of money and ineffective. So I do not support that option. Thank you Any other yellow cards Seeing none, let's line up the red cards Welcome Thank you. My name is Alan Cable. I'm a Topaz resident I'm pretty much going to reiterate what what has been said, but let me go through this First of all, the meeting was great. It was really positive. No bad words were spoken Everyone was very enthusiastic and we got a lot of good feedback. So thanks to Steve for that I think at the Topaz residents I think I can speak for them and that we all agree that the speed tables Jade has a problem We know that we know that the speed tables will help to fix the speed on Jade and on 42nd And we're very supportive of that The neighborhood signs on the other hand we feel are pretty much a waste of money The report is very clear that there is really no evidence that neighborhood signs work And in fact, there is already a neighborhood sign at the end of Jade at 41st that says neighborhood reduced speed and You can see how effective it is. That's why we're putting speed tables in And I think the word the leader of our of our traffic commission Basically stated yesterday that she has neighborhood signs on on her area and they're totally ineffective So it's a lot of money for what we think is an ineffective approach On the other hand the no turn no entry signs The one especially between the junction of Portola eastbound and 45th The one at the junction of Jade and Topaz We think would be very effective and we do think they would need enforcement But they are enforceable. Whereas the neighborhood signs from our perspective Seem to be virtually unenforceable. We don't exactly know how our worthy policemen are going to figure out how Someone is a neighborhood person or not. It's a really difficult problem to give them Whereas a no turn no entry is very enforceable And we think that a few tickets are probably going to be enough to disincentive eyes The people that that make the commute so in summary we would really propose that we save our money You know neighborhood signs put them up if you want to but we already have a lot of signs around and then the place gets Really cluttered up with signs if they're not going to be effective when we know that wait save our money Put the put the no turn signs in you can do it for about a tenth the cost or a fifth the cost of the neighborhood Signs and then let's see how it works out. We said this we would do this as a trial Let's do it as a trial if we need to add more turns or more no turn signs on the other dual box streets Let's do that. There was 80 percent approval for that in the meeting. Let's take the let's take the opportunity Step forward and do it now. Thank you. Thank you Welcome good evening council. My name is Todd Anderson. I live on Jewel Street Yeah, so I guess what I want to say is I'm against having the traffic be sent away from topaz into the other onto the other streets are in That direction. Let me say and just for a quick note today. I mean to me this thing goes back When the speed bumps were put on the 47th So we're just kind of chasing this thing as it goes. So on Those speed bumps going down 47th. I counted. This is just something 19 houses on I Live on Jewel. So between 45th and 47th 19 homes facing Jewel Back on 47th 13 houses in six blocks facing 47th So to me that doesn't seem very representative. I know I'm going back, but of the community That's 19 people 19 homes against 13 homes against 19 on one block so I Guess what I'm saying. I don't want this to be where it's like a small interest group is going to override what other people want the guy on Garnet and 47th pushed through those speed bumps way back when and I don't have any actual Data, but I know from that now cars go down Jewel. They're just trying to get through. So that has changed the pattern in the Jewel box From that. So I don't think we need any more You know, let's not go down this road of this and that like the guy before me just said that you know Let's do this on Topaz and then we can add the other streets. No baloney, you know, let's just Let's not have a small group You know tell the whole Jewel box what's going to happen That's my input. Thank you. Thank you anyone else with a red card. There we go Hello, I'm Marcos Vascovi. I live on Topaz and first of like you. Thanks Steve so much the workshop went really well I mean was really great to be with the whole community and would have having like everyone trying to collaborate and That was fantastic. And and so I don't know You know, so the I think just want to reiterate what Alan was talking about. I think that The workshop was pretty conclusive. I think we all you know the I think the what we're asking here Is just what was me term? Why me term, right? That's what we're asking We should we should do that right right away and that was like 80% approval and Oh 80% approval by everybody was there in workshop collaborating, right? So now there's not like a small group of people try to convince everybody that was decided by everybody who was there There was 80% approval. All are asking is that move that from why me term? What are we waiting for right someone get get killed, right? We want to move it now That's all we're asking. We're also concerned that some of you may not, you know Be with the console Starting next year. So we don't want to start this all over with, you know, a whole new group To learn about all that stuff So so yeah, so we're just asking you guys to, you know, let's do it now And it's very cheap right instead of like all the signs around it's just two signs And if you want to put in every single street like Jade and all the other streets on the new box You know, it's just a few more but and and that's do a trial, you know We're gonna be you know collecting data The best thing to do is just a try to see what gonna happen if the cars like diversion to the other streets We put the signs on the other streets too. That's not a big deal. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you Hello council, I'm Carl Schubert. I live on 47 30 Topaz Street, and I've been here and talked to you before Thank you for hearing me again We've been at this for two and a half years since the first time I came here and asked you for your help and We've gone round and round and round and we've gone through different avenues Myself and these others have worked with the traffic and parking commission. We've been here I've been in Steve's office multiple times and God knows how many emails I've sent him We've been involved in in the mail survey that went out a year ago We were also involved in the city meeting that was at the Jade Street Center So two and a half years later. I have to tell you I'm very frustrated We we have not had any action Put in place by the council and by the city and it is frustrating and to kind of follow up with Marcos said There's going to be a changing of the guard and is this going to extend things? Is this going to require another year or so for people to come on board? I hope not What I'm hoping tonight that you can do for us is is accept You know the report that Steve and his group is giving but take some modifications to it I am I'm wholeheartedly in support of the speed tables on Jade. That's a dangerous situation in another part Not in my neighborhood, but but a way for that affects other people more directly, and I think that ought to be done I think that's important. It's going to be expensive, but it's important It's not going to affect cut through traffic and Jade or down through topaz very much Very minimal effect there, but it does need to be done for a safety issue the neighborhood signs Yeah, why don't we put up signs that just say be nice You know because it's going to be about as effective even even you're the the traffic people in the report They say they're virtually ineffective. There's no data that says they have any effect What I'd like you to see you do is to accept the report, but Direct them to modify it direct them to do the no-turns at those two intersections. It's an inexpensive one It's something that can be done on a trial basis. It's something that we can see How it works and again it got 80% of the community support. It's it's not that invasive It's not that there was this big pushback like the bollards or the diverters had So that's what I'm asking of you. So thank you for your time. Thank you Anyone else? Thank you I want to thank Steve not only has he put on some great meetings and Worked hard on the workshop for all of us. He brought cookies and treats too. That's how he does it All right, so those of us who came without dinner got a cookie I just wanted to tell you that I live on the corner of 47th and jewel and the other day when Jax was down passing out flyers and stuff for the election I think he even made a comment about the speed with which people travel down 47th Street And I want you to understand that most of that is rush hour traffic So I want to encourage you to put up some signs that say no left turns off of Portola But please consider no right turn on Sundays in different avenues. We have gangs of motorcycles I mean 15 18 of them sometimes in a group come up from the village of Portola make a ride on 47th And they use those speed bumps as practice humps for wheelies I guess you'd call them and it's really frustrating It's dangerous for pets and people and kids that are out walking. We can't sit in the yard and enjoy it So it's a safety factor. It's a noise factor as well as a traffic factor So I want you to encourage I want to encourage you to do something a little more drastic than you're proposing Especially since we've been working on this for two and a half years. Thank you anyone else for the record I drive a ride a motorcycle and I can't imagine someone intentionally going over a speed bump it just Doesn't translate I'll go for the drinks, but I'm not riding my bike over those speed bumps Dead Ron hi, I'm Ron Burke I'm um, I just like to say not a not a resident but a member of the jillbox community I say that because we are a community as a whole we need remediation to these issues I really feel for the folks on top as they've been at this for two and a half years When I and I will admit it I'm the guy's I'm the guy I got the humps in back in 1999 I'm one of seven people letting a community of seven from 45th all the way to prospect I think it's been very successful. It was very dangerous before it's not exactly safe in some ways now Because the biggest problem that's been noted is that the travelers Coming through have the worst attitude in the highest volume during those commute hours eastbound between roughly about 3 p.m 630 p.m Those are the ones we're really after people aren't bad there because their drive cars aren't bad We drive cars to back on neighborhood sometimes. I see locals speed as well. I go. What are you doing? But the issue is we need to resolve this. I think the idea of a speed tables on Jade Street two of those on 40 seconds a great idea. It's fantastic But the folks who started this whole thing off again like I did in 99 or the folks into a past treat And there's nothing in the solution that deck directly attacks that issue the two enough left turn lanes or the two left turn No left turns between say three to seven p.m. Both that 47th and partala and 45th and Jade Street, I guess it be those are probably your biggest bang for the buck Enforcibility is going to be an issue. I drive sometimes in 880 I can tell you on the carpool lane a look on the fast lane behind me and probably half the cars or a single occupancy But when something gets pulled over everyone takes notice and we're a small community where the where goes around One ticket every few days or so people are going to learn and you can hide pretty well So please be bold. We don't put our step or step forward to try something out. We're not going to know. Thank you Thanks, Ron Would anyone else like to address the council? She none will bring it back and we'll start with Stephanie Well, I really appreciate everybody putting in all this time for two and a half years I think none of us ever thought it would take this long and so I think hopefully we've all learned from this that maybe when we have a Problem like this again We can have a more simple solution because it's very frustrating for all of us and for all of you and for staff to have To work on this and continue to work on it and continue to work on it So I'm I'm really glad we're getting to the end. I think of this phase not it's not going to be the end of this project because I think this is going to be an experiment to see how this works and so I'm happy to support the report and I think it's very timely and if we had all stopped at the beginning maybe and thought about what would work and just start off with signs and Some speed hump or something simple. We wouldn't be here today We I think maybe we would be happier But anyway, let's let's all learn from this and try to have a better process next time And we'll stop before we jump into it and see what would be more successful because I don't like having these kind of Processes that that are that take takes so long everybody's frustrated about it But hopefully we'll get some good solution Stephanie. Are you in favor of any particular solution here tonight? I think the signs and the speed lumps are fine Got it the the no left turn signs and the speed lumps I would like to start with just this the signs and the speed lumps first and then we can talk about No list term later. Oh, you'd like that. It's a neighborhood. Be nice signs No, no that the Whichever signs we come up with that we think would help and work got it This is a neighborhood. This is a you know some of the neighborhood signs. I think I'd like to try first shock So right off. I'd like to say thank you to the public for accepting the fact that City Council makes mistakes and We fully admit that at least I admit that and this is a given take So I think I've said before that in a healthy democracy or the civil republic there has to be attention between the people in the community and the people on City Council and That I think ensures a good dialogue. I support the turn restrictions off of Portola I support the speed tables. I think that's what you meant Stephanie at the cross rocks I think I just was at the mobile home park there. They cannot cross the streets there That is a major issue that We've overlooked too long and also on was it 42nd, right? So that's a major one I'm still trying to understand the second sign that was proposed If someone could address that The what do you mean the second sign? There was another left turn sign and I was at the meeting of that one One at Portola and Yeah, that one I got yeah, and the other one would be on 45th at Topaz Okay, so that directly addresses Topaz. Okay, that's that's what I was trying to get to so that those are the four things I would support. Thank you Christian Yeah, first I want to say thank you to everyone who's participated all of the residents. Thank you to Steve It sounds like everyone's really happy with the the job. You've done. It was fantastic I'm also really glad to see that there are The support for the options that have been presented is is more robust And it's I think that when it first came to us It seemed like there was 10% of support in every category and it was hard to see what anyone would really Support overall and so I think this is a sign that that we're moving forward and that we've come together as a community And I'm really proud of the community in general for that I Think that the speed tables are are a good start and the signs as Stephanie mentioned whichever signs Would be most appropriate and beneficial I'm concerned about any of the moving forward with any of the mid or long-term options right now I'm a little bit hesitant as we have done bigger longer-term options before and that didn't work out so well for us So I think the signs and the speed tables are probably a good start I think it's a good way to go. You're talking about the neighborhood signs or the no left turn signs either one again Like if it's if the neighborhood signs, it seems like those are going to be most beneficial I don't know it seems as mentioned in the report and as mentioned by some of the residents that they're they're not known to be Incredibly helpful But yeah, really any signage whether whether it be the neighborhood sign or no left turn signs or whatever we determine Would be most appropriate for this particular problem, but I think the speed tables are Specifically something that we need to look at great Yeah, before I get into the the item I just want to make a general statement because there's something that's been happening last couple meanings and I don't know whether it's a reflection of our country, but It's it's what I've noticed and allow me we had a meeting about a home and a neighbor making a request And my concern is is the way we talk to each other the way we treat each other and the statements We make if you're going to take the time to come here and make a statement. It's recorded if you're going to write us a letter it's recorded and There's a feeling that we had that in our previous issue I mentioned this at the last meeting that if someone There's a belief by some people that if someone doesn't live here because they have a second home here That they're not entitled to weigh in and have an opinion and in this meeting I received a letter about on this project here that someone referred to It's amazing to me how a small group of dissidents on Topaz can get the city to do blah blah blah and I was put off by that because you know the word dissident is someone who is rebellion against government and that's not what this was This was a group of residents voicing their opinions and I heard to tell you after serving here for six years I've got a box full of letters with people voicing their opinions and I encourage Everybody to have voiced their opinions and then it's up to us to make a decision on that But we don't need the name calling and we don't need you know any references to who's eligible or ineligible to make a decision And I will commend this group because it started out pretty contentious in the beginning and after the workshops I think this group has been very polite So I want to commend you on that but I'm just putting it out in general to the public on anybody on any issue Please refrain from making it personal And try to stick to the task and make a good suggestion. Give us your input and let us make a decision So with that With regard to the topaz project and I came out pretty strong on this project I wanted to do something and I still believe that that you know our problem is is hugely Motivated by highway one the congestion and everything else. I don't know in my heart if there's a solution I'm glad that there's some kind of consensus to try a couple of things You know, I want to be optimistic that they're going to work. I think that Staff did a great job of doing some research Um, I think that when somebody says that you put in a speed table, it reduces the the flow by 20% I think that's positive. Okay. I think if the topaz residents went from a thousand cars a day to 800 cars a day They would probably think that's something good. So Uh, I support the speed tables Uh, the general signage Uh, the be nice signs. I mean, I would love to put I think I would probably just put a bunch I like the guy I want those be nice signs Just put those everywhere But there was a different variety of signs that said this is a residential neighborhood I know the parking traffic commission may be lukewarm about that Uh, personally, I don't have a feeling on that. So the motion I'm going to make is that we, uh adopt staff recommendation to put in speed tables Friendly signage and then also include include the uh mid Was it called midterm? Uh And midterm options midterm option which included the two signs on portola and Uh, and 45th and jade So that's the turn restriction movements or restriction signs turn restriction signs the be the be nice signs And the speed tables or those three speed lumps depending on how you look at it speed tables. Okay Is there a second? I'll second that There's a second Stephanie comment You know that might be a wonderful solution But the only reason why I'm hesitant is we haven't done any sort of traffic studies Have we of what's how's that going to affect the other streets? No, we haven't I would I'd be much more comfortable if we had some kind of analysis because if it's going to back up Cars all the way back to 41st avenue people are going to be screaming about it now They'll take it'll take them a while to get used to it and do something else But I just think we ought to have a little a little bit of numbers about what that's going to do Before we before we decide to do it Jacques you had something Just want to bring up something to sort of settle my stomach anyway Um, yeah, I think this group all of us were community like Stephanie said Um, I started feeling really good when people started saying at meetings I heard what topaz said and I'm taking different routes And I've walked around the neighborhood multiple times now and many people have told me that So to me that says something and I think the community should be very thankful that That is no one asked for that but people are doing it Um, I was part of a traffic study in Golgay Park, San Francisco And we had a sense of trying to make changes There was no traffic study that I remember the expert said it takes a while to figure out what the new patterns are And someone did talk recently Came up here and said, you know, let's try it, you know, this traffic study costs us a lot It really does But Steve knows how to put things in place And take them out After we figure out it works or it doesn't work Okay, and you know, I kind of like to leave it up to him. He's the expert So I really go for no traffic study. Leave it up to our expert to figure out. Thank you Okay, and I will say finally Thank you for the motion. Thank you for the second Traffic studies are barely educated guesses You know, they can tell us what they think is going to happen. They don't know what's going to happen Um, I believe that I agree with the with the motion It's rational. It's a good idea And I am interested in those traffic tables, the speed tables for a different reason. I've been dying to get better A crossing across jade for the people at the mobile home park as well as the folks that live in the apartments on the other side Getting to the community center. That's a really dangerous And we have a crosswalk at the community center and the next crosswalk is at 41st. It's just too far With regard to cars backing up on cliff All the way to 41st because of the no left turn I welcome that I really do Because they're all headed to aptos. They're just driving through our town I mean seriously I go through the village every single day and I and I'd say 95 of the cars that come over the Stockton bridge Make the right on capitol avenue and we know where they're going Except for molly, they're not going to depot hill. They're going to they're going to to hit park avenue And jammed down park avenue the freeway So I will have a roll call Can I just get clarification? I want to clear on the motion before you vote That we're doing the staff recommendation that's up on the screen to develop plans for the installation of speed tables on jade and 42nd Look at neighborhood signage, which is the Referred to them as the drive be nice signs, right? And we're also going to develop plans for the left turn no left turns during commute hours No left turn on portola and the no right turn on 45th. Correct. Thank you Well question. Yes Last time we tried to reroute traffic There was a big issue about the coastal commission or somebody that these left turn signs aren't going to do that Are they I don't think so, but we'll certainly look at that one and come back But I don't anticipate that having the same as the the barricades would have. Yes Roll call vote, please Councilmember harland. No Councilmember betrand. Yes councilmember peterson Yes Councilmember botworth. Aye And mayor termini. All right. It passes four to one. Thank you very much You can all stay for the bluff discussion, but it could be a while So let's take a minute. You may leave if you like I won't take it personally Oh, I did something right We don't know yet. That's true. That's right. Yeah, we I hope we did something right Intended consequences could be Oh, I'll try that I have a or a snickers or a all righty He'll Oh, I don't want pretzels We're trading for these things The pretzel ones really The pretzels or the staff favor That new pretzely thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah Let's reconvene we will go to the Capitol bluff group report steve Quick summary here um Council had previously approved the closure of a section of the grand avenue due to bluff failure in that area had Made a section of the bluff Insecure and Needed closure to protect it at that time the council directed Council member peterson to meet with residents up there and develop some maybe Plans to how to get that pathway open again and deal with other bluff erosion So the the bluff group as they've become known as will be here presenting their report Yes, they're famous now. Yes Uh, christin, why don't you give us a lead on this? Sure So we started meeting about 18 months ago. It's been a while now to look into this And I want to thank you say thank you first to the people who have taken the time to come to these meetings and look at these options And really kind of go outside our comfort zone and our our zone of knowledge of what we already knew about to learn about new things and new opportunities For the potential for opening this path and or Preventing any further erosion In the future. So I just want to take a quick second to thank Our members which was john hart misha burridge tom parker test silvin margarita jimenez Jim castellanos and we also had visits from gary griggs eric zen Steve we had our former staff member rich City manager jamie came to one or two and our mayor was at one of our very first meetings Just to Just thank you to everyone who took the time to look at this It's been a long and and sometimes difficult journey to determine What would be best and if it's even feasible and so I want to thank you for taking that time And with that I would like to introduce john who's going to Give a presentation of what we have come up with over the last 18 months No, no one brought us cookie. I guess I should have brought cookies. I dropped the ball Clearly steve meetings get cookies So quickly i'll go through some of this pretty quickly because it's already get closer to the microphone for us There we go. Perfect. Uh, I'll go through some of this pretty quickly because it's already been covered But the idea of the presentation is broken up into four sections probably a back little bit on background problem description Necessary first steps and then longer term solutions. So that's pretty much it If you look at the background since the early 80s basically Grand avenue was closed and it became a walking path and that basically for the last What 30 for 35 years Depot hill is sort of revolved around That particular coastal path has become a community center walking to and from the city, etc So it's pretty important from the bio, you know from depot hill residents point of view and so That's sort of for 30 plus years It's we've had it and then that changed rather dramatically in uh, january of 2017 went about we had this cave in which involved about half of the Hollister to oakland part of the path and Basically it was abrupt and pretty dramatic and so what happened was that about If you look about two months later You guys and I think rightfully slow so closed the Hollister to oakland part of the path There was a lot of concern that follow on cave ins Could basically take away the path and that's in fact What the geologist said there was a high risk of that happening and that it's kind of silly to leave a path open If you think it could cave in at any point So it was closed and and then Basically as christin said we formed this ad hoc committee to look at what are the alternatives to try to reopen it and go forward the um The other thing is that it became obvious When we first started meeting and looking at the problem That yeah, we've closed one of four blocks Involved in the coastal path But it's guaranteed that if we do nothing probably in the next five 10 15 years Maybe 20 years depending on what how the weather is You know the rest of the path is going to close So we're looking at either really do we want to have a coastal path? And do we want to pay for having a coastal path? And then uh or not and and that's sort of the decision that we felt like as a committee this ad hoc committee We were sort of beginning to look at you know, how can we keep the can we keep the path open? How much is it going to cost and et cetera? um First question we ask okay, so why did this happen? Why did these why did this cave in happen? um and Understanding that it became pretty clear. We had to bring in geologists et cetera You have to have some understanding of how the bluffs put together and what are the forces on the bluffs? So i'll try to quickly go through that If you look at the bluff 85 foot bluff, it's pretty simple. It's divided into two sections The upper third is soil and the bottom two-thirds is sandstone And below the sandstone beach there's i mean there's a beach at low tides sometimes sometimes there isn't a beach And then at high tide Most of the time the waves hit the base of the uh of the of the bluff And that's really important and we'll come back to that because that's really the they major problem with the uh erosion issues And i'll come back to that um If you look at erosion issues though the upper third is it's completely different by the way the upper third has a Completely different set of erosion problems than the bottom two-thirds the upper third is soil and so it's just like any Any sort of bluff that's made out of soil if it went at range you're going to get a slow wash away et cetera that it's not particularly dangerous Okay, it's slow and if that was the only issue if that was the only issue we had on the bluff Then we could solve it pretty simply we could put some netting up We could put uh plant some vines et cetera and we could control that part of it So that's not the major risk. Okay, it's pretty easy to mitigate The major risk is what's happening at the lower two-thirds of the of the bluff There daily almost daily it gets hit by waves And the waves gradually start to undercut the base And so you get a little bit of undercut and you get a little bit of cave in Then you get a little bit more undercut and you get a little bit more cave in And eventually what happens is typically in the winter The soils part the top third Gets weighed down with water. Okay, so now suddenly it's a lot heavier And so then if you have a big undercut at the base That's when the weight becomes too great and the whole face Of the uh lower two-thirds falls away Then either the top goes with it immediately Or if it's got vines and and and planting et cetera on it it may hold on for a little while But eventually it's going to go to And that this is the major Safety issue I mean imagine Remember at nine o'clock in the morning in january on a clear day We had this issue that's in the lower left-hand side You had the entire Half block Fall onto the beach if anybody had been walking on that beach. They wouldn't be here today If the top part of the path Where the part that is at the top probably we probably lost about eight feet on the bottom I'm estimating this and probably about the same amount on the top It turns out the top part just went to the walkway However, if it had gone through the walkway In anybody that did on it, we'd have had a catastrophe there as well So this is the significant risk in the bluff. It's when the bottom Two-thirds caves in Then you have a you have risk on the beach and you have risk uh on the top So one of the questions you want we started asking was how quickly does this happen? You know, does it happen in 15 years 20 years? Does it happen in two years, etc? Well, Misha helped us out with this because he's with his drone He started taking pictures of here's the Hollister to Oakland block and here's a picture of it in 2013 and if you look I have the four the three little arrows are showing areas of undercut and What you can see in the middle arrow there you can see above it There's a little you can see how it there's been a little bit of the undercut is The the material has fallen off of the bluff a little bit And the same on the right one is it's fallen off And and so if you look A couple of years of two years later what you notice is on the beach There's a lot of stones and rocks and there's been a lot more of the undercut It's gone deeper and there's been a lot more that's fallen off If you go on to the next slide in september of 216 that's four months before the major cave in You can tell there's been quite a bit of undercut and debris falling off So the undercuts now have gotten quite large in two spots the first spot is in the left hand side of the Walk, I mean that block on the right hand side of the block at that time A lot of us were looking at this assuming we thought actually the right hand side was going to be the area that could cave in first It turned out as we now know that the left hand side was the side that fell so they the the issue is so where we are today is we have essentially The left hand side interestingly enough the base no longer gets hit by the waves So the the base of the on the left hand side the whole left hand side is protected for a while Probably for five to ten years. I don't know for sure But there's a lot of stones down there that's protecting the base The right hand side is continuing to erode back And this is why it was so probably such a good call to close the pathway there Because that that's pretty deep the right hand side is pretty deep and when that fails It's likely going to take the pathway with it So that's that just sort of supports the decision. It's not the popular decision No, nobody none of us liked the fact that that happened, but it's it was certainly the safe decision So how do we what's the solution the requirements and objectives? How do we solve this problem? We first said well, what are objectives and we talked about a lot of different things And it suddenly sort of dawned on us that well, wait a minute Sort of a minimum threshold would be if we could make the bluff As reliable as a bluff that wasn't on the ocean. Okay, we can't make it infinitely safe that no bluff Anywhere is that but if we could at least have it as safe as a bluff that wasn't on the ocean as stable as one That wasn't on the ocean. We're probably gone a long ways towards having it safe enough I mean that was at least our conclusion. I mean we could argue about that, but that seemed reasonable That was a reasonable position and then So well then what we began and and at the top and at the bottom How do we do that at both places? And then determine then we decided to determine how could we Reopen the Hollister to Oakland part of the path How could we quickly do that is it was it even possible and if so how? And then what what are the long-term solutions? What if there's any you know once we have a short-term solution if we can get it reopened? What are some of the long-term solutions? and We we were looking we then we immediately as a group jumped into long-term solutions and we began talking about them and Exploring them and that sort of thing But then what we began to realize was wait a minute independent of the long-term solution There's something you got to do right away If you're going to try to fix the bluff at all There's a there's one there's a first step that you've got to take and you got to do it pretty quick If you want to ever reopen the Oakland to Hollister section and that's basically You've got to fill in the undercuts I don't know if it's possible if the undercut in front of the right half side of of the Oakland to Hollister part is already too deep. I don't know that it may be too deep But if it's not too deep If you if and if we don't get too much rain this winter We might have a chance next year to fill it in And if you fill in that base That what it does is it makes the cliff stable You could so you fill it in with concrete and you basically Bolt it rock bolt it to the rest of the cliff now what you have is a cliff that's stable It's not going to be stable forever. Okay, so you need to have a long-term solution But it's probably stable between five to ten years. I can't tell you Nobody can tell you exactly what it's going to be but five to ten years. It's probably stable And if it's taken quick enough Now what you have is you have a you can go ahead move the mouth back to the Property lines and reopen the Hollister to Oakland part Okay, so because now you have a stable base And if you if we think the top it needs to be stabilized the top third needs to be stabilized you can put netting on it I mean, there's some really easy ways to make keep dirt from from basically eroding away So that's no matter if if we want to pursue Stabilizing the bluff and and keeping the path the first this is the first step And it's got to be done pretty quick and our suggestion is You know this our block is no different the block that failed is no different than the other four blocks I mean, there's erosion everywhere So if once you get the equipment down there and everything you probably should fill in all the undercuts And if you've done that then you've pretty much slowed up the erosion issues On the pathway and now you have the time to figure out the long-term solution And the long-term solutions there's sort of two groups And and all of them both of them are significant. Okay, so they're not there's no easy Minor thing that you can do But one is we should all understand it is simply if you put a groin Just like we have at Capitola beach if you put a groin in front of Hollister You know just put it out there what would happen is you would create a beach along the rest of the Hollister to Oakland block And you're you the waves would no longer hit the base of the cliff And if the waves don't hit the base of the cliff you don't have the erosion issue And you've already filled it in so it's stable So you've solved that problem so The other the other thing is it's interesting because if you put in two or three Groins along there you would have a beach all the way down And suddenly Capitola beach Would be as long as you decide as long as you as big as you wanted to make it And so it's an if that's something the public you you might have a really I mean it would be very favorable viewpoint from the public because you've suddenly created a beach that's four times as big So the other the other so that's one solution. That's my favorite However, it's not it's it's expensive and it's not easy to do etc As you know, I mean you're having to redo you're growing right now So but it's exactly the same technology and it's exactly the same concept And it does have the benefit of help the public gets a big something big out of it The second solution is it is just like pleasure point put in a shotcrete wall. I mean no and it it'll work and It that's that's the second class of solution Then and those are the only two long-term solutions that we were able to find so So In summary There's a first step that you need to take if you're going to you either decide We're going to let the you know, we're basically giving up on the the walkway and Uh, it's just going to in we know that in over the next 20 years or so We're going to lose it and and that's that's the decision or we decide Well, let's try to save it and if we decide to save it We've got to immediately do that stabilize the base by filling in the undercuts And then secondly If we do that then we could reopen the the Hollister to oakland part of the the path assuming we don't have that cave in before we stabilize it and then finally It gives us the foundation to go out figure out what we do long term It gives us some time. It gives us five to ten years to figure out what our long-term solution is So thank you. Any questions council Stephanie as anyone talked to the coastal commission about Whether they would allow another groin to be placed because I understood that when we put ours in many years ago That that was like the last one that they were going to approve And that they don't allow them because it causes sand depletion For the next community the next community is state parks. They're going to yell Loud and clear and I think that that's that's a nice dream But I don't think a groin is is probably possible It would be nice if you could get some of these things answered Before this presentation because then you'd know you have some answers If I can jump in on that really quick if you don't mind we we considered that exact same thing Um as a ad hoc citizens committee there were limitations to how far we can go in doing financial Analysis and coastal commission and sand studies. There's only so much we could do as a as a citizens committee So we did consider that that would be a huge roadblock and getting the sand study done If the sand would be prevented from getting down to new brighton and if the coastal commission would allow it That being said we kind of decided as a group that despite the limitations We were asked to come up with potential solutions and we wanted to provide all the potential solutions Even if there would be roadblocks to achieving them Because we didn't have the capacity or Um Yeah, we didn't have the capacity to go any further into the into how to overcome such obstacles Harry griggs could have probably told you if you asked him we did ask Harry griggs that question when he came and his answer was It was obviously not a studied answer But his off the cuff answer was well, you've already got a groin So the sand is already a lot of what Subsequent groins would be doing you're already doing so part part of the problem You've already you've already I mean in other words the first groin Captures the sand okay, and so putting in the second groin doesn't mean it doubles the amount of sand The first one takes an awful lot of it. Anyway, he seemed to think that that was Less of a problem. He thought the major problem was that the coastal commission Might not like the groins is you know, I mean they might not find groins as favorable as You know that's what I was saying because it caused a sandy pollution in the next community And I don't think the coastal commission approves of it. Let me let me try and close the circle here Okay, um, it is my understanding that not only groins, but plugging sea caves, which is what this undercut is And building shock reat walls any of those three options must be passed by the coastal commission before they proceed Is that not correct? It's correct So whether they like them or not, that's a path that has to be taken. No, that's true, but then she's right I mean we decided we we felt like our job was to say here's what the options are And now if we want to take the next step now we have to go to the coastal commission Absolutely understood and well done and I'd like to open this up to the public And if anyone else would like to speak on this step up No one else wants to speak so I'll bring it back to the council Someone decided to speak Come on up come on up to the microphone. We'll we'll hear everything you have to say Bring the microphone Answer Stephanie is if you take a look at the coast what happens is it goes down past Capital and Depot Hill then it the coast makes a a right turn A right 90 degree turn That is a groin If we have another little groin in between It's not going to rob any sand from New Brighton It's just not because it's a groin that goes for miles Any oh, that's all I had to see about thank you. I'm going to bring this back to the council And we'll start with Stephanie again Or this is just just receiving the report by the way, so you can just make well comments There's no there's no action to be taken tonight. Yeah to be clear. That's fine I'm just I'm just really leery of trying to fight mother nature You know, we've been we have we've had a couple of vulnerable Problems here, but Depot Hill early and for many many years ago now recently and the other side of the cliff and Very expensive projects and the city doesn't have the kind of money to support these projects That's the only thing if we had if we had the money that would be really nice Jacques No, I the the public Comment period is closed at this point I understand and we'll bring up some thing. I have some things to say about where the money comes from There's always ways go ahead Jacques so Thanks for the report and thanks for the neighborhood participation I know this history goes way back to the jihad and efforts to solve it many years ago Steve I have a question of you. We did have an expert that came here And I just want to get a sense of What was your take on the stability of the path? Um From that report and then I have a follow-up question The geologist report we had done after the failure was he predicted the Portion that hasn't failed yet on the slides the portion to the right of what it failed would fail in the next one to five years that Section of the upper soil is already Essentially to the edge of the pathway. So any failure in there will remove the pathway Back to the property lines at that point and so there will be no relocating it without Taking private property. Okay. Yeah, because I remember The engineer said no recommendation, especially for equipment You know, which we would need to even make a pass. So it was so unstable that equipment that extra weight would be problematic So some of my concerns are The amount of money to do any of this work who's going to pay for it I look to the jihad to get involved But even before we get to that The permits and working with the coast of commission to find out what's even possible These to me are the first things that need to be done before we could even go further And a commitment from the community to actually go in that direction. Those are my concerns Kristen you anything to say? um, yeah, I 100 percent agree and and the Committee is aware of those limitations as well Again, these are things that we also considered and just felt that we needed to come forward with the potential solutions And as jock mentioned, you know, those those things would need to be considered before any any other action was taken On any of these if any at all One of the other things I just wanted to mention because it wasn't mentioned in our presentation But it was discussed was other people have asked Well, why don't you just move the just move the path back? Don't worry about anything else just move the path back to the property lines We also discussed that And we felt that even with the path moved back to property lines There wasn't enough space on the other side of the fence for it to be safe We couldn't bring the the machinery up to rebuild the path There was some question about okay if someone falls off or if the Bluff falls onto the beach and someone's down there is the city liable and for the most part We found that you know if we have signs enter at your own risk those kind of things that there wouldn't be liability But we didn't feel comfortable saying well. Yeah, that might happen, but we're not liable. So Let it happen. Um, so we we essentially Felt that these longer-term options were what we wanted to bring forward as an opportunity For creating a safer bluff that we could move the path back But right now it's not safe for us to do that So I just wanted to address that because I know that that was a question people have been asking as well Yeah, Steve one more quick question What would it take for the city to file an application for an additional groin? I believe I mean I can tell you we've Filed a recent application to rebuild our groin. We had to do a complete stand study. We just completed an abalone study It would it would take a set of plans it would take those studies I've mentioned If I take an In-depth stand study more than the one we're doing because we're just rebuilding ours We're saying it's not going to change from what it was prior to that. We'd have to redo that analysis for low groin I'm going to try to put that a dollar amount on that or anything But it would take a significant amount of studies and we'd have to have a plan developed Plan that would identify for the coast to commission. So you're probably talking these easily a hundred thousand dollars in Plans and projects before we just to make an application to submit the application. Okay. Thank you Um I'll make a couple of comments because I was here as was Stephanie during the geological hazard abatement district um formation and the hearing on that and I think that um We're probably past time to revitalize that particular group And look at the assessment that would be required because it would take an assessment and all the residents Up there in depot hill to make this happen. I think that the short-term plan of um plugging the undercuts still will require a coastal permit and you know, that's conservatively good for 18 months to two years So the short-term plan is really not a short-term plan Um, I don't know what the solution is. I know that If we if we sit around and talk about it for another two years when we get to the decision point We'll have another two years to wait So maybe it's time to start activating certain mechanisms and look five years to the future because at this point I don't think the path has much of a future But I think that your homes do If we move now and I think that's what needs to happen. I'm much more concerned about where you live Then the backyard of front yard is where you live Um, I think the path is doomed over the next 10 to 20 years of going away the entire length of grant. I hate to say it But by the time we get something built, I don't know that any of that path will be stable um, I am always concerned about public works working in an area that a geologist has told us it's had us to work on And again 80 foot drop. We have to keep that in mind The money can be put together. This can be done But it has to be done now The planning has to start now So I would return back to the group and start doing some research on what it would take to get the geological hazard abatement district Activated and to move forward because that's the way this is going to happen without that organization behind it The onesie twosie c cave plugging and and uh shotcrete walls That is a tough Boulder to roll up the hill with the coastal commission over and over again With regard to the sand I've looked at the sand study for ours And I've looked for at others and no matter what you do the position of the coastal commission is no matter How you say the coast is shaped Any sand that you collect is sand that does not travel So as far as they're concerned you're taking sand from somewhere Right or wrong. That's the way they look at it We know the coastal commission is not exactly friendly towards Projects like this, but we just had a c cave plugged a little ways up the coast Off of cliff drive. So they will let this happen, but we have to start Applying and and putting some attention to it right now Thank you, steve. This is this is probably one of the most effective intelligent and articulate committees I have ever seen formed in the city of capitola and I thank you all I wish I could go to all the meetings, but I Promise you I would I would step back and let you take the reins But thank you depot hill neighbors You're unique in the community. Thank you And we'll move on to our next item Santa Clara Santa Cruz community round table for jet noise Mr. Mayor council members So this is revisiting an issue that began in 2015 Council members are well aware that in 2015 the FAA moved the flight path that historically went over Santa Cruz over capitola Due to the concerns that were created by that move the city of capitola was offered a seat and participated in what was called the select committee Who met over the course of I want to say a year council member botorf and Council member botorf represented the city on that committee to numerous meetings over the hill and san jose pal alto cupratino And ultimately that committee made a recommendation to move the planes back from the current route over The new route over capitola to the old route the big sir route as it was known The committee also made nine recommendations to mitigate the impacts of jet noise on our community At this time it's not exactly clear what the FAA intends to do with the flight path moving forward Remember that the select committee was not Didn't hold any authority over the FAA. It was simply a community advisory group comprised of locally elected officials. So Where we stand today is over the hill in santa clara county the santa clara county's association has uh Been asked by local congressmen and women to form what they're calling the santa clara santa cruz round table Jet noise round table and it's modeled after the sfo round table where the cities in san francisco and san mateo counties participate And provide feedback and advice for sfo as they consider Issues related to airport noise and activity Um, really, I think it's intended to be a sort of a santa clara santa cruz county's forum to talk about sfo or san osa airport jet noise Um, obviously the jet noise issue is very important to some members of our community However, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the fact that the sfo round table despite having been in existence for 30 plus years Has had relatively few Wins with the fAA in terms of actually effectuating changes in policy Uh, the proposed membership at this point the fees aren't exactly set the budget is set for the Uh round table, but it's contingent upon how many cities end up joining right now We're looking at a fee structure. We'd be around two to three thousand dollars a year Um, we would need an representative to attend the meetings, which would likely be held over the hill They are discussing the potential at least of having remote meeting opportunities Um We do have a available budget. I think we have three thousand dollars left in the city manager on anticipated events Fund for the three thousand dollars it would require So with that oh in addition the county considered this recently and did elect to join the round table With a number of conditions and one of them was that they were going to evaluate the effectiveness of the committee After one year of membership. So that would be my recommendation if we do elect to join the committee that we would do so and reevaluate the effect effectiveness Come next year and see whether or not it's proving to be a tool that's making a difference for our community With that i'm available for questions Any questions anyone from the public like to speak on this item? You know at this stage you can talk up to three minutes. I don't care what color your card is Hi, my name is john glena. I want to thank ed botter for attending all those select committee meetings and I would Ask that the council Approved and to go ahead with this Um to continue the work that ed was been doing Uh, i'm just fear that uh, this path is that got moved over us You know a few years ago It's just going to continue to grow because sfo is you know, it's all about grow grow grow Be more plans all the time And I know it may not be uh, you know the the effectiveness is uncertain or maybe low, but I if we don't go there's absolutely no Uh influence over the fAA because they I guess it's hard to get access to the fAA And this you do have a little face-to-face talk with them Or meetings with them and maybe there'll be some influence and so I think it's a small price to pay for A potential benefit So I am pleased to vote for this. Thank you next Hey bret um So I think this is one of the number one issues we need to be involved ed has done a great job on select committee We need to continue to have a voice in front of the fAA I mean this this keeps us up literally at night and uh, so We need to continue to push on the fAA and make changes. Thank you. Thank you I just I'm cathlyn atchison. I think I know everybody and I wanted to thank you for your continued participation in this As john said, I know it's uncertain But we really appreciate as a community your Involvement as it does keep us up at night and it's pretty noise control I think it's a pretty important part of our environment. So thank you. Thank you Anyone else like to speak? Hi susanne atlina Depot hill I just want to mention that it's not just daytime Any of us that spend time during I mean night time during the day you hear it as you walk the beach as You go into our hills, you know, it's it's an issue that's going to just get worse. So To to be in the round table at least will give us a little bit of a voice within this and uh, hopefully Gain have us gain a little bit of control with what occurs in the future. Thank you. Anyone else I'll close the public hearing and bring it back and I'll go first this time Uncharacteristically um This is not just forming the round table, but you know Little capitol actually gets a vote and gets just as big a vote as santa cruz and sandler It's a valley as a supervisor as a, you know, state senator. This is City of san jose this is important And While the you know the f and f a is federal So we know we're Again going against the goliath At least we have a place to do it. There is no one more qualified up here than ed He's put the time in So like it or not you are the most qualified one. So I would gas up your truck real soon And I don't know if anyone has anything I'll say but I'll entertain a motion because this is Truly a no-brainer. I'll second it. I'll nominate ed to be our representative on the round table And and to motioning all sort of form the round table and nominating ed We have a second with with my under discussion Um, I thank you ed for going to the board of supervisors meeting where this was discussed and they voted on it And I'm very disappointed though that the board uh did not appoint john leopold as the representative He's my supervisor and I'm going to write them a letter about that because the bylaws do say City and county representatives shall be elected officials from the cities and counties period So, you know, they just get away with some funny things down there at the county in the future. Keep your eyes on them So you're being john leopold is not on the round table Oh, the other my other point is that they are going to appoint staff And that's totally inappropriate when you're there at a round table with your equals other elected officials Fighting it out or discussing it and so forth. You don't want to have put staff in that awkward position of having to fight They don't like that. That's not their role But that's what they decided to do which is I think terrible. So we have a motion and a second any other comments Yes, I first of all, I want to thank the support that was given from the people that came up. Appreciate that and and john I think you coined it. I wouldn't have said anything different. Everything you said was a little bit vague Uh, I I want to get I mean vague as far as what what we're able to do and not do but The one thing I am I mean the main reason I want to get back on the committee and try to do something is is that You know, we did make a recommendation to select committee to move the path back and That agreement, you know, the main my main reason for wanting to stay on this committee is to try to at least make sure the FAA honors That decision that was made by the county and with regard to what Stephanie said Uh, the other thing I'm going to push for is it does say in the bylaws that it was supposed to be a county a A elected official and both Santa Clara county and Santa Cruz county are trying to put a Staff person there. So when the committee gets together, I think that'll be one of the first things we discuss So, uh, I'm happy to do this for the two more years. I remain on the council and at that point Uh, we should have a good idea about whether it's worth it to keep investing in that round table. So before we take the Vote jock, you had a comment. Yeah, um, thanks ed I really do and I'm talking a number of people are quite frustrated with the Progress or lack of progress. Um So I see a lot of people here still wanting to keep going forward. So I think that's great And if we're not at the table, we can't play Thank you I believe we also need an alternate. Am I correct? They do call for an alternate But whether or not there's someone who wants to put their hands up at this time is it's entirely up to council I think we have christian council member peterson I was working for congressman barn 2015 when this started And I worked on it for two and a half years and I was really glad to not be working on it anymore to be quite honest Oh, there you go. I'm really glad that you've stepped forward, but I will I will be That's a logical replacement. That's so we have our nomination. We have a motion and all in favor I opposed it's unanimous. Thank you Hey Keep the noise down. I'm sorry. I couldn't help it. We're going to go to the next item Which is the city council pension discussion. Yes our fat lucrative pension Mr. Mayor members of the council this item is on your agenda at the request of council member batoff Just as a quick overview the city doesn't participate in social security. Therefore, we're required to offer by law Some some approved alternative retirement plan to all employees and that includes city council members Um, historically the city has offered purse to all its regular employees And in 1992 the city council adopted a resolution that allowed council members to also participate in purse um And what we do for our non regular full-time employees or regular employees is we enroll what's called pars Which is an alternative approved alternative retirement plan For hourly employees and so when council members currently join They're given the choice of whether they're going to join purse or pars That being said once you join purse When you're first elected you if you've joined it, you don't have a choice again if you're elected in subsequent years a and b Depending on your status if you've previously worked for a purse agency or maybe a purse retiree You may or may not ultimately actually have that choice But right now if you come in from the private sector in our first elected council You are given the choice of either one of the two plans um Question you initially said that uh, you had the option of joining purse. Can you can you just opt out entirely? That's correct. You you can opt out uh from purse, but you you need to be in a plan So the alternative to plant to being in cal purse would be in pars And we'll go through with the cost and the structure of those two and the differences between those two plans Right now So for council members, uh, based on the $500 a month salary the the cost to the city is $33 and 50 cents a month for The normal cost for uh council members purse and that's paying for the benefit in the current year Uh, they have the same council members of the same cost sharing plan as other employees That is you end up as council members paying 13 percent of the uh purse cost and the the city pays the remainder A purse for those of you who don't know is a defined benefit plan. That is the amount you get out at the back end is guaranteed um And what we're not talking about here is is the unfunded liability payments And that's when that normal cost that we pay each year for the benefit doesn't actually end up covering The cost because it is a defined benefit plan And the reason we're not talking about what that ual is the unfunded liability payment for prior council Benefits is that it's a sunk cost Whether we opt out moving forward if we decide we're not going to have council members join CalPERS anymore The ual it doesn't change it would remain the same that is in the ual is the accrued unfunded liability And we can't change it going forward by any decision we make today about future members and CalPERS um And there's also there is an interesting so the question is is you know I think we've talked about this before is is you know, should we anticipate whether or not the actual cost Normal cost that we pay each year for CalPERS is going to cover the benefit for council members in the future and You know I see council member term mayor termini smiling because in general the answer is no we know it doesn't The interesting thing though is is that the question is actually it's a very individual question And and for the average city employee the answer is obviously it hasn't but the council's demographics are different than the average employee And so really the question comes down to is this how old are you and how much you're going to be collecting in retirement? And when are you going to retire and so in general? I think the demographic of the council has been actually in general retiring later than city employees And so as a result you're paying into CalPERS when their actuarial assumption would assume you would have already been retired um in addition CalPERS always factors in an assumption of a three percent Growth and salary every year and you guys know you haven't gotten a three percent raise in a while so Whether or not council members are actually accruing a ual is probably a pretty interesting esoteric debate and Not something I can answer right here right now Very quickly PARS The city's cost for PARS membership is six dollars and fifty cents a month It's a seven and a half percent of salaries required to go into PARS That's the minimum to have an approved alternative to social security And right now our agreement with PARS is that it's six point two percent employee Which matches social security and then one point three percent employer So that's the six dollars and fifty cents and it's a defined contribution plan So there's no additional cost. It's just the money that goes into the PARS plan Becomes the employees upon separation or retirement. So there's no unfunded liabilities um So with that I'll talk a little bit about the options is we certainly can continue with the existing retirement plans And options for council members and keeping them consistent with the existing employees We could consider revising the contract with CalPERS To make it so that cal you know council members who are not currently members of PERS could not enroll in the future It's a three to six month process requires resolutions and documents to be drawn up with CalPERS Nothing they do is quick, but we could kick that process off We could also adjust the contract with PARS right now We have a single contract with PARS that establishes that six point two one point three percent split Um, that's a simpler process But does still take some time and we could adopt a second tier with our PARS plans and have council members have a different Contribution into the PARS plan So with that we just passed a resolution that said that council members can Only go into PARS not into PERS So it's not enforceable unless you go through that that bullet number two Uh, okay Yeah, I mean you could say we strongly encourage future council members to choose PARS, but technically our contract, you know Would make that option available to future council members shock So in terms of timing, um, this wouldn't cover people who would be elected in the next election Uh, whatever decision we make right now, it wouldn't be possible I don't think to do it before they would be sworn into office Depending on the results of the election though I'm not sure whether or not any of the council members who are elected would actually have a choice Just because I think a lot of the candidates either have prior service on the city council and have been Either been enrolled in PERS or been enrolled in PERS somewhere else. So it's not clear to me whether or not Obviously depending on who wins whether or not there would be actually a choice that comes up for anyone in december So we could establish a direction right now to at least consider going to PARS You certainly could you could kick off that process and we could begin to research the uh, you know getting together the resolutions And the documentation necessary basically to make it so future council members and it probably wouldn't be the the class of 2018 it'd probably be Effective class of 2020, but the future council members couldn't enroll in PERS Good. I have a quick question. Yes. I think you already answered it, but I just wanted to clarify So future council members if they're already, uh In PERS through their employment somewhere we can't prevent them from being PERS members once they join council, correct? Are we there? So my understanding is is that if we went through this process with Cal PERS and we adopted the resolution And we took the six months to do it The future council members wouldn't accrue any additional PERS benefit for their service So So what I said before about some council members not having a choice I think of council member botch or if I think you might be able to shed some light on this Europe PERS retiree and when you came on board my understanding is is you were You were given only one choice. Was that correct? Correct. There's a conflict Yeah, so Depending on your status. You may or may not have a choice But if we no longer have a contract with PERS that includes city council members Then the only choice for anyone would be PERS Or to not or not take it because they have their own insurance. They have social security No, we don't offer social security for council members and we have to offer some I mean if they are maybe they're retired and collecting their social security They have to get one or the other Stephanie As a lawyer by law we have to offer a retirement plan because we don't offer social security And you know, I know you may have heard from some other cities, you know carmels an example or pismo beach are examples of cities You know council members don't get retirement and the answer is well They're actually social in social security. So that would be the other alternative is enroll the council in social security It would actually be more expensive though than ours And it would I think it would cause considerable staff expense Yeah, I'm sure it would take a bunch of time. Yeah. Social security is like Yeah Like in that whole other class of payroll Calculations anyone in the public like to speak on this? Seeing none. We'll bring it back What's the pleasure council? Ed Hi I brought this because I You know things that are going on right now. We've seen We're looking forward to difficulties in our pension programs and expecting financial problems with that down the road Two or three years from now We've gotten a situation where we've taken our employees on purrs And reduced them from tier one to tier two employees to try to catch up with the failing system and it seems to me We're trying to take care of our full-time employees in which city council members are not we're in that category of part time and hourly So it doesn't make sense to offer this retirement Uh, I'm what I'm trying to do with this motion is pretty much stop the bleeding that the council does to the budget And the reason I do this is when you look at some of the numbers you the average two-term council member On a purrs pension is drawing Uh $1464 a year really? Yeah, I'm sorry And when that person continues to draw on that for 20 years, he's drawing $30,000 a year after serving here Earning a salary of $500 a month Now if we were to be in a parts program Uh, the city would contribute $576 over an eight-year term As opposed to 3216 over an eight-year term The employee would be contributing to that program another $2,900 and it would be similar like a 401k is what that is What the parts would be But when you start adding these numbers up and you start looking at the 3216 that you pay to Purrs for that person with the possibility as a city manager mentioned with the unfunded liability Exponentially we're talking these numbers are getting them at 30 40 50 thousand dollars that we're exposing And I sit and look at us and we're trying to buy speed tables and I had their $50,000 and I'm thinking this is I think this is a measure where you're here. You're working as a public servant. You're drawing a salary It's a part-time job City employees have been asked to make cuts in their pensions I I think that this is something I'm not trying to go back after anybody's pension. There's been your stepping This is not geared towards you or any previous people that have spent 32 years, but I'm thinking moving forward I just think this is one of those responsible things that this council should do and Uh, the only thing that we should offer the the most the the suggestion that was made Was uh, the only thing that's available that we should look into is offering a part of retirement So again, yes, I don't disagree had another surprise for you Stephanie, I I always know you do the right thing Well, I mean that's the big issue these days is is pension reform pension reform pension reform And I think it's fine for us as a goodwill gesture to throw in something to that And to make some change in that So I know that that I think that just feels like the right decision rather than keep the same system that we have If we're going to be doing making some drastic cuts in a couple years It'll feel better to us to know that we've thrown in something from from ourselves So I think I couldn't have said that any better. Thank you. Well, I will entertain a motion, but just a short editorial I've been paying the employer and the employee portion of my purse since I entered so I do acknowledge that Thank you. Now. Do you want to make a motion? I'll make a motion that we direct staff to you Is the number two bullet? Is that the one we needed to revise the contract? So future council members cannot enroll in purrs and take that process and then we'll establish Well, we'll just investigate that and then bring it back and we'll we'll make a decision Is there a second? There is a second council member trend all in favor. I opposed And a unanimous decision. There you go See that we love it. Thank you folks. I anyone have any other comments? I I predicted no unanimous But it happens. Thank you council. Good night capitola and we may not have signs everywhere But be nice to each other