 Hi everybody. Welcome to this webinar on climate activism in the time of COVID-19. I'm Juliette, I am IID's Events Officer and this event forms part of our IID debate series. Thanks very much Juliette and many thanks for all your work putting together this session with a really great panel. So as Juliette mentioned, the topic for today, the question is what is the impact of COVID-19 and all the surrounding disruptions and lockdowns and so on on climate activism? And also importantly, what are the priorities? Where do we go from here to deal with this new environment, radically new environment we're in? So a set of really big questions. What's the impact of losing the public space as an arena for protest? Is there a risk of losing momentum? How do we build up towards COP26 happening in 2021 now? What are the new entry points for climate action? And what are the pros also as well as the cons of moving to digital spaces? Could it nurture new strategies and deepen alliances? And importantly, how does the current crisis change the agenda for climate action for youth and in vulnerable countries and communities? And finally, how does it change the goals? Does the huge shock of the pandemic create opportunities to rethink, opportunities for a transformational shock and a change to business as usual and create the space for the kind of radical action that we need to address the climate crisis? And we've got a fantastic panel to address these issues. And I will introduce them in a minute. But before that, I think Juliet is going to put up a poll question online. And if you could all answer that, I'll introduce the panel while you're doing that. So our first speaker will be Fahana Yamin, who's an internationally recognized climate lawyer, author, speaker, and social justice activist. It's great to have you with us, Fahana. Brilliant. The other panelist, the second panelist will be Inezah Umahuma Grace, who is the founder and chief executive officer of the Green Fighter, an impact driven youth organization in Rwanda. She is a leader by example and involved in climate change diplomacy with a youth voice. And then next on your screen, although she will be the last speaker, is Vanessa Nakati. We're delighted to have you with us, Vanessa. She was able to join us only in the last couple of days. We heard she was able to be here and we're really excited to have her with us. Vanessa is a climate activist in Uganda and founder of the Rise Up Climate Movement. And the other panelist, delighted to introduce Sam Green from our IID Climate Change Research Group. And Sam's research focuses on climate finance and climate change adaptation. So how are we doing with the poll, Julia? I think good. I'm going to share the results now. We've had about 70% of people join, but here we go. Right. Okay. So that's a really positive result. Has the pandemic situation compelled you to feel more or less active in the climate movement? And 74% are saying more and only 26% saying yes. So that's a great position for us to kick off. And let me now go through the panel, just addressing the broad issues as they want to pick out from the agenda, the discussion agenda that we have today. So the first speaker is Fahana Yami. Fahana, please go ahead. Okay. I just want to say thank you so much. And fantastic to see so many panelists from around the world, actually, you know, welcoming Vanessa and Anesa when she joins as well. So we've really got to make the most of this digital technology to ensure that we have as much inclusive global dialogue as possible about what is happening all around the world at this time. When the virtually the entire global economy is in some form of lockdown and shutdown, and is making a massive dent in reducing emissions, which from a climate perspective, I guess no one can be sorry about, but it's coming at a very high price in terms of COVID-19, you know, very cruelly exposing the inequalities, the underlying inequalities and fragilities that were present socially and economically in our system. So it's not something that I feel we can celebrate, you know, in the way that some people I think in the environment initially kind of did that. It's, as I said, it's a cruel and sudden exposure, especially for those people who were already bearing the brunt of the impacts of many different inequalities. We're seeing that especially now as COVID strikes and starts to peak in many developing countries, you know, how difficult that is, where there are huge problems in terms of access to water, to sanitation, to health systems, and where there is far fewer resilience in the first place, which is already being exacerbated by climate change. I think I've been asked to give a bigger picture view of what does COVID mean, COVID-19 means for climate action. And as I said, it's in a way broken through and magnified and exposed some of the systemic problems that we had, and some of those systemic problems are very linked to and also part of the climate problem. So for example, I think the current health crisis is very much symptomatic of the wider crisis of climate change and the destruction of nature. Diseases such as Ebola, bird flu, SARS, you know, originate in animals and they're being driven largely by the unsustainable exploitation of natural ecosystem and other commodities. All of these diseases, you know, jumped and were exacerbated by the way in which our current food systems, current agricultural systems impose a very high price in terms of the destruction of nature and the way in which we treat biodiversity and animal health. Secondly, I think this crisis has also shown how remarkably adaptive human beings are and how quickly they rise to the challenge of dealing with their own care as well as the care of their loved ones and their wider family and that, you know, rapid change can happen very, very quickly. So there is huge sort of lessons to be learned and lots of positive energy to be gained from looking at how people are organizing now to care for this, care for themselves, care for their communities, care for their families, care for their neighborhoods. And I think that that's something especially the climate community needs to learn more from. I think thirdly, you know, we have been emphasizing this message for a while, but it hasn't broken through. It is the most vulnerable people who are being hit the hardest by COVID-19 and that's exactly the same underlying pattern that we see for climate change, that social justice, climate justice are two sides of the same coin and sometimes those who have contributed least who are bearing the burden of existing social and environmental damage are also going to and have been at the forefront of COVID-19. In this country, for example, and in the US, a number of countries is primarily the black and ethnic minorities who are filling the wards, actually the ICUs and the hospitals are filled with black and ethnic minority candidate people who are, you know, dying in the highest rates first, actually. In terms of what does this mean for climate action as someone who's worked primarily in the climate community and in the international part, you know, to be honest, climate activism, both the online aspects as well as protest was successful in delivering a huge number of laws, you know, there are 2,000 laws all around the world. It was successful in delivering three different treaties with hundreds of COP decisions. We've got the climate change treaty in 1992, the Kyoto Protocol 97 Paris Agreement 2015, but these collectively were not delivering the protection of vulnerable communities from climate impacts and they were putting us on a trajectory of three degrees of warming. So I think our existing activism before COVID struck was not able to deliver the change at scale that was needed and I think what was wrong, I suppose, you know, and is a provocation, a little bit of a generalization, was frankly the climate movement was focusing on moments instead of movement building. It was focusing on year by year COPs or targets, you know, that were periodic or companies, you know, getting companies to do X or Y, you know, I call moment driven campaigning instead of systemic changes and not linking then with the political inequalities and the economic structures that we needed to. So for a very long time, the mainstream environment movement focused on moments and focused on emissions and by and large built up its campaigning and its frame outside and divorced from social movements that were challenging the underlying ecological financial economic system which is driving the destruction in the first place. So I think, you know, last year, many of you know, Andrew, do tell me if I'm rambling on. Last year, many of you know this time last year I was wearing this suit actually and Extinction Rebellion and I became a rebel for much of last year and was very active in Extinction Rebellion and glued myself to the headquarters of Shell because I think the climate and environment movement had seen campaigning in terms of winning an argument. So it was a lot of money spent on framing, on media messaging, on communications and that's great but it hadn't appreciated or had under-emphasized essentially political power so it had not challenged sufficiently those who were wielding power in our economic system, those who are wielding power in our political systems, those who are using corruption tax havens, who are using land grabs and so forth and it had not made those links or under-emphasized them in some way and I feel that there is a massive positive convergence of energies now in a more systemic approach exemplified for example with the Green New Deal exemplified now by Friday's for Future campaigning for a much bigger broader agenda of bringing in excluded, marginalised or unheard voices, youth voices and asking for systemic change instead of asking for piecemeal changes. So I hope that's a little bit of an overview of what I think can happen. My personal energy just to finish off is going into community-based forms of activism. So in Camden we've set up a think and do centre which is acting as a community hub and which we hope will also continue to bring the mutual aid groups which are flourishing and providing actually you know community care and filling the gaps that the state cannot cover and I feel that that's an underrepresented strand in the climate movement which has as I said focused a little bit too much on the top-down advocacy elite communication channels rather than on movement building and working in solidarity with peoples around the world engaged in social movements. Thank you. That's a fantastic introduction for Hanna. Many, many thanks. I'm delighted to see that Inez has been able to join us. It took a while I think for you to get the technology up but Inez, if it's okay I'll go to you last so that you've got a bit of time to hear the discussion evolve as you joined while for Hanna was speaking but it's great to have you with us. Vanessa would you like to go next? Yeah well thank you so much. So when it comes to the COVID-19 pandemic and the climate crisis as a climate activist of course it worries me and it's not something that I can celebrate because people saying that the earth is rejuvenating and getting back to its based form. I don't think it's something for us to celebrate simply because it involves the loss of people's lives. We shouldn't have to get back our earth to what it used to be while we sacrifice other people's lives so I don't think it is something that we actually need to appraise or even thank the COVID-19 pandemic for because it has turned the world upside down and it has claimed very many people's lives and also destroyed and torn apart different families you know so it is something that we can't be happy about and it has clearly exposed of course the vulnerability of our communities of our countries and the entire world at large it has clearly showed that if a crisis reaches its tipping point its highest point it affects everyone regardless of who you are regardless of what your position is in society regardless of the money you have that is what this pandemic has shown us and it clearly shows what we are to expect of the climate crisis. Now when you look at the climate crisis it affects currently it's it affects the least privileged communities the marginalized communities that is why we don't see so much attention when it comes to the governments trying to solve it this is because it is not affecting those who have the power to stop it those who have the authority to stop it and those who have the resources to stop it but the COVID-19 pandemic should teach our leaders that if they do not address a crisis at its earliest stage then it becomes a problem once it escalates that is what happened with the COVID-19 pandemic it has short term it has short term effects while the climate crisis most of the effects seem to come in a longer period of time and this is what makes the leaders comfortable because they are not seeing these impacts daily since they are living very comfortable lives but then it is sad to note that there are those communities marginalized communities in different places people who are suffering people who depend on natural resources and that climate change is affecting these resources drying up their water sources these people are being affected now but the sad thing is that these people most of them do not have a voice to talk about the problems that they face to talk about the challenges that they face and the other thing even if they get the voice to speak for their problems it is very hard for that voice to go out there it is very hard for that voice to be amplified it is a struggle to talk about the problems of the most affected communities so how can we achieve climate justice if we are living out people who are being affected the most even in this crisis of the corona pandemic there are people who are suffering right now I'll give an example in East Africa we've had late Victoria water levels rising up and around 32,000 people were displaced in Kenya imagine being displaced and losing your home at a period telling us to stay at home you know imagine losing your farms it is the same thing happening in Uganda as well it is the same thing happening in Randa as well the rivers are bursting and causing flooding in all those areas but we are not seeing these things read the news and if they don't reach the news who will care who will care to talk about these problems who care to find the solutions to these problems even those who are trying to build resilience in these communities they are finding it's so hard to even acquire the resources to build the resilience in their communities so there is a very strong imbalance when it comes to addressing these problems addressing the crisis of climate change and the other thing I would talk about the COVID-19 pandemic it has shown that the leaders are capable of listening to the science that's if the crisis affects them because when they realize that this crisis is not specific to a certain group of people they were quick to make decisions to look down their countries to you know look down the airports and just close any kind of activities in their countries simply because they know they can also be affected by the virus so it showed us that if they know that they are in danger they are capable of taking action so meaning that they are capable of listening to the science of the climate crisis they just don't want to since they have not been able to experience those impacts but how shall we make sure that these leaders understand the pain of the suffering communities if even the voices in those communities are not being listened to you realize that most of those communities are the least emitters of carbons but then they even never get to talk to the leaders we just need some voices from the global south to face an european parliament for example and clearly tell them what is happening they need to hear these voices from the from the roots you know from the root communities from the grassroots they need to listen to these voices from the communities that are affected the most that is the beginning of environmental justice and we cannot have climate justice without environmental justice because environmental justice begins with us amplifying the most affected communities and bringing solutions to these communities and also the COVID-19 pandemic has also showed that the leaders are capable you know they have the resources to address a crisis if they want to so all they need is the will to address the problem of climate change the moment they will they have the capacity to they have the money they have the resources but how shall we make them understand that climate change can affect them as well regardless of the houses they live in regardless of the buildings that they have at the end of the day the moment climate change reaches its tipping point it is going to affect all of us but we would have sacrificed very very many people so we need to address it now to stop the suffering of the people in the most vulnerable communities the people who breathe a different kind of air than what the leaders breathe so we need to address that and we also see that the COVID-19 pandemic it really affects the respiratory organs but i must address something that climate change has affected very many people's respiratory systems through air pollution but we haven't seen these things come up why because still it is the the less privileged workers it is the less privileged communities that experience these problems Vanessa thank you very much indeed that was fantastic um i want to also give a bit of time at the end for you to respond to questions so we'll carry on around the panel but incredibly eloquent and really really fantastic contribution thank you so much let me go to Inésa now Inésa it looked like you had some trouble joining but really glad to have you with us now um so please go ahead uh hi everyone uh first of all i'm sorry i was a little bit late i was having um trouble with the connection um so talking about the COVID-19 pandemic in the from the perspective of a young activist but also an impact driver on the ground um i can say that this pandemic is just um having different um it is affecting on two on two sides side effects or side areas for example it teaches uh we activists that we also have to raise the voice using our online platform such as twitter um websites just to make sure that enough people or the community is listening or what you have to say and one of the challenges we are facing is is that uh when you raise voice in that's that area uh when you use internet connection you find that the community are targeting is not connected that's one which means uh you are making the voice but but the people with whom you really want to make them understand that they are we they are understood that their their question is uh or their struggles are not indifferent for some of the people they are not they are not understanding us that's one and also from from the side of making impact because now we we cannot drive on ground activities which uh which from one sense is kind of uh highly important for us the youth because uh we cannot make big projects such as on a national level but we still rely on those small activity that we used to have that was uh targeting increasing the knowledge of the community or making uh eradicate the environmental knowledge gap but in these days we are not able to make them so it's kind of it's kind of challenging because we are facing the fact that when the pandemic will be over uh much more of our activities that was already in progress will be drawn back so we'll be having to start again from zero because what much of the impact that we already made is kind of being lost somehow because now the people in general are trying to learn in in a new area or a new uh manner also um adding to what Vanessa talked about that uh this pandemic just kind of opened the eyes of everyone especially the eyes of the leaders and trying to um acknowledge that these uh the scientific data are not are not something made up it's something rare so I think that this is the time that most of the people will understand that they the scientific data from the IPCC we got climate change regarding how how much the community is vulnerable now they'll be much more understood because they kind of they are kind of now living in the in the way we can feel like what will happen when the climate crisis will be at the at the peak so um and also I think now now more than ever uh everyone is willing to to come together as one for for for example um we are we are we are wanting to come together as one so that we can stay safe from the covid which means that people are now willing to understand what the government is saying uh so I see there is a hope that after these people will be also more eager to understand some of the environmental protection status or strategies that will be set out because now now more than ever we understand that we have a common earth and a common air around us fantastic thanks very much indeed Inezza um I mean there's some really great points from all the panelists let me go to Sam now for the the final panelist contribution and then we'll move to Q&A we've got some great questions already coming up so I want to make sure we have time for that and please use the Q&A box if you do have questions rather than the chat um or the right hand function if you're familiar with that Sam thanks Andy and thank you to the rest of the panelists for some some really great points so I'm going to try not to repeat maybe try and offer a slightly different emphasis um the the first is that uh good activism depends on really great research uh to have the right argument to be able to to frame uh uh the movement of people around key ideas or key narratives so I think one of the big challenges that the pandemic is raising is it's really difficult for us to do that research in an effective way certainly from an adaptation standpoint there are some really tough questions that we don't really have the answers to like how do we ensure that women or young people or other marginalised groups are uh uh properly able to benefit from climate adaptation investment or how do we even enable climate finance to flow at scale to where it's supposed to get to where the most vulnerable people are and we don't really have the answers to these questions and the research that's needed for that requires bringing people together sharing perspectives dialogue and that's best done in person so I think for me there is a concern certainly from a research perspective of how we keep in current uh and enabling that shared uh discussion decision making that's really important in informing I know Farhana said we shouldn't focus on those moments but they do they do matter uh how do we use our research to inform those uh those at key times whilst also building on the momentum from uh social movements so that also brings me on to the next issue and I'm really happy that that's come up is uh the role of social movements either uh disruption or or in solidarity so I think that the COVID-19 has really highlighted how our society responds in a crisis and what's important it's really clear all of a sudden that public goods are essential in a crisis um public health in this case but I would argue that the same is absolutely true um for responding to climate risks and that's either here or in the most vulnerable communities in the global south and it is social movements who seemed particularly to be having a moment in 2019 who were highlighting those injustices really effectively um uh and so whereas before they were very much under disruptive footing it seems like now rather than losing momentum they've they've taken a moment to build uh to to stop and regroup and build solidarity so I can speak to my own mutual aid group in Kilburn is bringing people together to talk about things like domestic violence and the way that the council functions in ways that haven't really happened before and bringing uh unusual groups together um and I think that's really interesting I also think that those social movements whether that's here or particularly overseas movements like Slum and Shaktwara is international or the Waste Pickers Alliance they have a tremendous network and and the ability to teach us what's really happening on the ground the lived experience articulated from the perspectives of those people and I'm sure if somebody asked my mutual aid group to articulate some of the challenges we could do that in a way that maybe a cold survey or a mobile phone survey couldn't do so we I think as climate activists and climate researchers have a tremendous amount to learn from social movements across the global south and what we need to think about going forward is how do we support them to articulate that knowledge clearly to gather that knowledge more effectively and to share their own understanding of the challenges of how we respond to crisis and we can transfer that learning from the pandemic to the climate crisis finally also just on something interesting about what the agenda is going forward I think it's really positive to see a bouncing back better agenda emerging that seems to be better at tying climate risk or pandemic risk to the way we structure our economic system the pandemic is making us realize how vulnerable our systems are how how lacking in resilience we are even globally to unexpected crises but I think that what we what needs to be incorporated into incorporated into that agenda is not just emissions reductions but also recognizing that failure to prepare for a crisis is not an accident it's a political failing this is a point made by by Clair Clair Saki or our climate change group director a few weeks ago is failing to prepare for a crisis that you had warning on of is a political failing and we need to build that into our narrative and I guess finally just to make the point that that whilst this is a tragedy there's an opportunity here to to have a more positive narrative I think environmentalists and climate campaigners have often been seen as bringing people telling people what they can't have there was a moment where Andrew Bolton said exactly that to to Rupert Reed and Extinction Rebellion on the news about a year and a half ago and there's an opportunity here not to talk about what we have to have less of but how we can create a more just and equitable future that offers us a resilient society for the future and addresses the vulnerabilities that make our development as a global society slower and more difficult so I think there are there are some opportunities there that we need to incorporate into our climate narratives as well and I'll stop there thank you thanks so much to all of you great contributions I think we've got another couple of polls that Juliet's going to put up at this point while I just speak quickly before we go to the question so yeah there you've got to one question the lack of street activism could set us back in terms of getting a good outcome from COP26 yes or no online activism could nurture new strategies for engaging people so let me just reflect a little bit before we go we've got some great questions coming in Fahana really eloquent talking about movements not moments and the need to address structural issues of political power in the way that we go forward with climate activism and the crisis Vanessa was really on point with just the lessons of the importance of acting early and that links to what Sam was also saying that there was notice of this thing of the coronavirus crisis there were plenty of warnings and failing to prepare is a political failing whether it's the climate crisis or the pandemic and also Vanessa spoke really eloquently about the need to to see the realities of the lived experience in the global south on a global scale and I know there are many people trying to put that through but cutting through the noise in the north is not simple in terms of global media and in nasa spoke about the opportunity to work online to build global solidarity but also this other message that comes from the pandemic that it's important to listen to the science and can we kind of build on that and finally from Sam a lot of great points there how can we use this for a transformational dynamic to build back better to change our view of economics and that these issues justice equity resilience climate action all go together so have we got Julia we got the results on the polls so again fairly positive results there the lack of street activism could set us back in terms of what happens in the next cop that's one of the moments so maybe for hundred would say the movement more important than the moment there but we do have people seeing that that could be an issue in terms of what we get out of cop 26 so that's more a question or a negative response there that we may not get the progress that we would have had if we'd had street protest but on the second one a very positive result online activism could nurture new strategies for engaging people in climate action and that's a massive yes 95 percent so thanks very much for those let's now go to the q&a yeah answer well there were a couple in the chat box as well about cop 26 which some people I think would be interested in and I guess because I've been involved in a lot of cops you know including many iid colleagues here so I think you know this build up every five years you know which is what Paris is based on also Kyoto was based on every five years we have the science reports from the IPCC we tie it in with the political electoral cycle which in most countries is four years five five years you know is is sometimes it's hugely distracting and has stopped the underlying work because what happens is negotiators and governments then hold back you know the negotiating process itself you know means that they hold back what they would otherwise do and give because of the bargaining you know nature and it sounds silly but you know they don't give their aid you know they'll say oh we're going to deliver this as our big moment you know at the next event summit or at the next this or we're going to hold back this chip because you know we're going to get the developing countries to concede on loss and damage you know what what does it mean you know this is what I hear and I've heard for 25 years and it's frustrated me they actually hold back and you know each country does this a little bit but by and large the money the political will and the the the Trump cards are in the hands you know it's a bad pun but it's very true of the richer countries so they hold back and take issues as hostage to to get progress on their terms and the fact is that you know the most important thing to know about COP26 is loss and damages and even on the agenda it's not on the agenda because the way in which the agendas and everything was was structured a few years ago as a result of these terrible negotiating compromises that all of us have to engage in when we're advisors to small island states and vulnerable countries so I have a huge level of frustration and disappointment within the way in which you know these big moments now work there's also absolutely support what you know sam has said about the need for research and brilliant and important research but the truth is that you know the research organizations and the elite advocacy organizations and those close to them doing comms for them have taken a lion's share of the budget of philanthropy and donors and governments for a very long time and it's left peanuts for movement building and southern based and new NGOs and that is one of the reasons why for example extinction rebellion came from nowhere with peanuts money actually including a little bit from foundations in the end very reluctantly but actually the real breakthrough has come you know at times in the recent years from people who are not funded and supported by traditional charitable research based organizations who cannot go outside of their mandates cannot do political work cannot certainly say things like the system is broken or actually our research is shown that all time time again you know we should do less and more money should be given to other people so I feel like those things have been shown time and time again you know to to be important factors and I'm fed up of the cop you know people going now 20,000 30,000 it's great metric but what do those 20 30,000 people do there you know the bulk of the cop is about government negotiations and the governments have not been delivering the rules that they said that they would deliver and at any one point it's only about a thousand people that are really directly involved in those negotiations who need to physically see each other and be present and the other I'm sorry 29,000 often spend a lot of money you know on side events on activities sometimes they go for one side event which is two hours long shared with 10 other people and that's the bulk of the airfares travel accommodation the networking part is fantastic and important so some of these things really needs to be re-examined especially now going forward and whether the the cop that is now possible should be this big jangly you know involve 30,000 and let's for the timing to be right or should it focus on what the government's already promised and are legally obliged to deliver which is their indices that they haven't yet tabled in detail especially the bigger emitters who are stepping back and were stepping back before Covid arrived and what the online pressuring points are then for the bulk of those groups that have big budgets to organize around these cops they get get millions of pounds dollars and you know to to organize mobilization efforts around it and most of that is very top heavy and is not going on the kind of support and mobilization that is actually needed in the rest of the world so I've become quite critical I know Selimal Huck and I you know from my ID we've been writing a little bit on that the developing countries have pioneered virtual summits so with the climate vulnerable forum countries are grouping about 48 people we had a Google hosted virtual summit in November 2018 you know and it works pretty well the technologies improved yet further there was a yet another online forum convened by AOSIS with the support of the UK government a couple of weeks ago there are many many better ways of of organizing the kind of rule delivery and the implementation and the accountability and then transparency that is needed than just having you know 20,000 30,000 people turn up at the cop with governments then holding back what they needed to deliver ahead of that time and it's become a very difficult process actually to to get progress around so yeah yeah there's a couple of the points that came addressed to me and I think we need to think much more creatively about that and the you know COVID and this seminar here provides us with an opportunity to test what those could look like what those spaces networking events zoom you know side events could look like you know instead of her flying all around the world for you know the the large part for a very sociable set of activities thanks very much for Hannah really well made points and we hope when we get to the end let's talk a bit about the way forward in the way that you were you were indicating as well Vanessa there's several points I haven't been through all of them but several people James Jenison Kara asking what is the best way that northern or european climate activists can ensure that most the most marginalized in the global south have their voices amplified in relation to climate action and the climate crisis so Vanessa could you just offer us some thoughts on that and indeed anything else you've seen in the questions that you want to pick up well for that question I would say that the activists in the north have really they've really been doing great work to help out the activists in the south I have experienced that as well and including them in digital actions and also some of the events but I think it's more like a system that was already built that shows some sort of white privilege and that is what affects the the activists from the global south the most but for the activists from the north they they're really so helpful personally they've been very helpful in my activism and helping me out and sharing the work that I'm doing and also taking part in the digital actions that we organize so I think that they should just continue doing what they have already been doing and then also we can have media media being more inclusive as well and sharing and interviewing these activists because there's so many from from the global south and get to know what they're doing in their communities and get to understand why they became activists and why it's important for them to see that the issue of climate change is addressed in their communities you know every activist has a story to tell and every story has a solution to give and every solution has a life to change so media needs to be more inclusive to give an opportunity to these activists to talk about what is happening in their communities because they alone understand what is really going on since they face the direct impacts of climate change and then I can also talk about the NGOs they can try to be more to balance the number of activists because sometimes you see them inviting activists for maybe online events or even physical events and sometimes you get there and the number is really the ratio is so so disturbing if it's white to black it will be five to maybe two so you find that the representation from these communities that are affected the most is so little so I think NGOs need to do something about that not to just select one person or from the African continent and have maybe attain more people from European countries there is not in balance there so they should do more in making sure that they try to balance up the numbers so that we as activists from the global south do not feel left out and do not feel out of place when we get there so I think basically those are the things that that we can do to make sure that the stories of these activists are amplified and they get to you know to give solutions and find solutions for their communities and then also we need more voices speaking directly to the leaders who are in charge you know yes we have all these negotiations but at the end of the day there are countries that make the final decisions there are countries that do their funding so we need voices from the global south to speak directly to the leaders of these countries to the parliaments of these countries because many of them are comfortable and not taking the necessary action or even delaying the action because they they are not facing these impacts and yet these are the communities on the other side of the world they are facing the impacts so we need to balance also the representation when it comes to addressing these western parliaments because at some point they need to be held accountable and they need to understand all the problems or the maze that the people in the global south are going through because of the actions that some of them took and they need to understand that the action we need is urgent and not maybe in 20 years or 50 years because how many people would have died in that period of time so that's basically the message for the activists to keep doing what they have been doing for NGOs to be more inclusive in the in the what in the activists that they invite for their digital events or physical in-person events and also for them to try as much as for media to also be inclusive and to have more voices addressing these leaders who at the end of the day make the decisions that define our destinies. Fantastic thanks very much Vanessa and yeah I mean we need all of us that's a responsibility I think for all of us working in this space to take on board but thanks for making those points so eloquently. In Asa there's a question I was wondering if you'd like to take up about people were very positive about online engagement 95% of people said yes this can strengthen us do you have any thoughts about how that needs to be shaped to be effective? The connection should be much more inclusive and trying to reach especially each community and its specific needs because what is needed in the in Rwanda for example is not the same as what is needed in Uganda but I think if you can have a strategy that can be much more inclusive of all the community that would be amazing and also as as if the media should also capture because the local media already has its ways of reaching all the community at large so if they can be included in making the voice in raising the voice that would be much more helpful and it would be offering a strategy which would be which would be based on improving what was already being done on the in the community. Great thanks Anissa a job to be done also on digital inequality on ensuring that the possibility that the technical possibility and the engagement is there for for a genuinely equitable online action. Yes exactly because if we are targeting to to raise up with one voice and one spirit against these the comments issues we need to be we need to be to incorporate much more of every every voice because as Vanessa said every voice counts and every voice can be a source of something one one people lives so they should be there should be much more an approach that is really comfortable with everyone an approach that it's offering a way to be to be much more free in expressing what you really what you want to say when you are particularly sure that the people the people you are talking to will be sent and convey your message to the right community. Great thanks very much indeed Anissa great questions Sam is there anything you want to pick up at this point? Maybe I think just to add I mean I absolutely agree with Hannah's point about the COP having organized a side event there's no opportunity to for flexibility it is a we have a project look how great it is and then you hope some people turn up and I do think that if I if movements were stronger the COP could take on a different emphasis and and I think as Sunim has said in the past focusing more on the on the discussion and the problem solving in the interactions between people rather than the the sort of hallowed and restricted turf in which the government advisors sit in and negotiate in and I'd also just agree that we do need to think about how the big NGOs can get out of the way a little bit sort of take a supportive stance and the big NGOs built themselves a momentum and they need to start thinking about step by step thinking of a plan to move the momentum away from continuing what they're already doing and shifting it to providing support to where capacity support is needed or funding support is needed in the most vulnerable places I think that's really important and I also think that that going forward one of the things we really need to focus on is governance of resources and governance of public services I think transparency and accountability are key and we need to find more opportunities to integrate the public into the everyday decision making and governance that takes place and thinking about the future I think XR is is really onto something with pushing the idea of the deliberative democracy idea the sisters and assemblies and there are regions in the world where you know there are parts of Canada where one in 60 people have engaged in some form of deliberative democracy and it is something that we do need to build into public discourse and I think in doing that we can create ownership of the difficult choices that need to be made in shifting our economies to something that's more resilient and but that is rooted in a serious conversation about what are the mechanisms for enabling that how do we hold power accountable in a more effective way right yeah thanks very much Sam I want to go into that space a little bit with the other panelists as well and the kinds of things you were talking about what one or two big priorities going forward from this point just to wrap up because we've just got about five minutes left so again let me go to Farhana first one one or two big things that the climate activism should focus on now given this huge global shock and the the changed world we're looking at yeah I would I would say absolutely build the density vibrancy resilience of local networks essentially we were really good at the top down global diplomacy let's congratulate ourselves and not be ourselves too much around the head for that but what's missing is the mycelium the roots the networks that need connecting as we've seen you know that top-down structure is it's brilliant but it doesn't function well unless it has strong roots and those are built by community-based forms of actions and that's where I've put my energy and time actually all of sort of last year and the thing can do example came from and is part of that deliberative democracy of returning decision making and accountability to more localized forms without you know invoking the sort of nationalism and exclusionary stuff but inclusive democratic reform is what's needed and you know turning on its head this extractive model where largely our economy is based on private profits return to shareholders in far away places you know you know many many times you know offshore tax havens in many other countries have absolutely don't give don't give a two things about what's happening to the local communities and all around the world people are are against that kind of economic extractive model whether they're voting frankly for what we see as populist nationalist right-wing leaders or otherwise they're united against saying that that kind of non-localized non-community-based form of an extractive economy is wrong and that's why we should all pile in now and support that mycelium the tap roots which is essentially the community piece and and work with your local councils your local mutual aid groups and and get in there and and too many of us myself included you know a lot of our identity is around you know going to these cops and saying i'm a global player and you know i i do this and actually community-based forms of activism and work do not get the kind of glamour the kind of money the kind of support and that's the big missing piece right now that we can help unite covid and climate action and and unite face-to-face personalized connections with where we live who we see who we support with the global dynamics that are needed to rectify at this point thanks very much for hannah that's great in nasa what would be your one or two big priorities right now um for me right now what what what i can say as the big priority is the fact to recognize and support some of the on-ground solution making youth organization such as the green fighter that that are already existing try to make an impact so as we really need to increase action and ambition for each country and there's a dominant open a dominant opportunity and mostly they use they use engagement use actions and i think it can be the great the good starting point and i'm trying to come up from this from this pandemic with a new strategy a strategy that is much more impact based but not much more of a word-based because for for very past years we we experienced some of the decision we are having a call to have a decision but for the next call we found that the the decision was only a draft text there's nothing much more miserable what was happening after but we really have a chance that the youth especially from the global south that are already willing to capture some of the the ambition some of the um the uh the action that the countries want to undertake and try to make them on uh on their own level so what is needed is i think is to come up with the strategy that all of us we are we are on the same boat and try to make make make much more noise in making impact or in our community thank you so much Inezza um so also supporting grassroots organizations but looking for that transformational moment um coming out of um we don't know how we come out of this crisis but as we as we do so Vanessa the let me give you the last word what would be your one big priority to go forward at this point yeah um i think that as an activist and uh what i would expect from any other activist is to continue with the same momentum or even more than what they had before this pandemic because yes uh people saying that the earth is rejuvenating and all that but remember after the pandemic our governments their economies are going into recess they are doing so bad right now so we worry about what is going to come after this pandemic many of them are going to try to get back to the top at whatever cost we are going to see oil and gas companies being bailed out we are going to see more industries running and we'll go back to even to what to where we were or even to our worst situation so we as activists this is the time for us to build more momentum online as we await the post-covid situation because now we have to speak out more now we have to be more clear about the demands we make so that our governments push for a green recovery and not just a recovery that uh that puts the lives of the people at risk and also our planet at risk and then uh the other thing that i would talk about is what Ines said about the supporting grassroots uh maybe projects or activities that are being done to build resilience you know i have experienced this a lot you find that uh you do so many interviews you speak at so many events and all they do is they ask you about the project that you're doing but they never get to say that we would like to help you we would like to you know do something to make that project even more farther so i think that really needs to change i remember being i mean i mean many many groups with other activists so i remember specific activists from europe saying that they had over 500 000 euros on their donation account and this is not something that we see when it comes to the global south and yet there are many activists who are taking uh those projects that are building resilience in those communities so i think uh we need to address the issue of climate finance because we cannot leave out some communities while uh helping out others and especially leaving out those who are most you know most affected and they clearly explain that they really didn't know what they were going to use the money for but it was just there on the account for the for their climate group and uh it was really disturbing to see that many many people have done many interviews but they always just ask what project are you doing but they never go on to say how can we help how can we pitch in how can we make that project move across your country Uganda and maybe go to Rwanda Kenya and any other African countries so this the issue of climate finance really needs to be checked a bit there is a lot that is lacking thank you I think we're out of time now so um first of all huge thanks to the panel um huge thanks to Fahana for um giving us such a a breath of vision and all of your many years of experience working at the international level and contrasting that now with your the grassroots focus of your work is just brilliant to hear that um huge thanks to Sam for bringing the perspective of someone working for the organization I head for IID um and we try in our own way to deal with some of these other issues the questions of voice and support to organizations in the global south which um through climate finance and others huge thanks also um to the two youth activists to join us um Inezah from Rwanda Inezah many thanks you were really eloquent and it was just great to hear your perspective and we look forward to being in touch with you as we go forward and finally Vanessa we heard from you at the last minute but we're so delighted you could join us and it was just brilliant to have your voice on this webinar and again look forward to being in touch with you in future um we've had tons of stuff coming in on the chat box on the questions that um I haven't been able to get to it was just too much so sorry to um it for anyone I missed their question or their chat apologies but we'll do our best we've got all this recorded and we'll do our best to think about how we put all this together all the various requests also that we've had in from people for sharing contacts and so on we'll look at that do what we can to follow up as strongly as we can but also we'll be talking to the people on this um the fantastic panel we had today but also others about how we take this conversation going forward in the future