 Has any human being ever exercised free will? Differentiated from the illusion of free will. That is one of the most fascinating. That is hard. Sam Harris wrote a book called Free Will. It makes a strong point that humans have no free will. Joel, this is one that a Christian can take both sides because there's Christians that are Calvinist, stick and free will that say, there was a whole group of Calvinists that said, if you're born going to hell, you going to hell. And if you're ordained to be a Christian, you are. Which was before the modern age of atheism, that the Calvinism was before determinism. So what do you think? Let's say, I want to hear from you too. Well, that was my question. I texted Zach earlier. I was like, I got to ask. So let's hear a doctor's question. Do you think free will is any human ever exercised free will? Is it real or is it an illusion? I think it's an illusion. Okay. I mean, this gets back to Cartesian dualism. You know? So explain that to those of us that are not up to date on our country. My Cartesian dualism must be a little refining. I was sick that day. I'm sick right now. I know, I want everybody's faces. Everybody's just going. I just pushed the jack button. I'm only up to the second question. This is your five minute tutorial. Explain what is Cartesian dualism? It's just the notion that there are these two separate causal entities. One is the physical causal entities that Alex was talking about. And there's this other set that is not physical, that's supernatural. Okay. Basically that is mystical, spiritual, or whatever that we don't understand the cause. And of course, we don't understand a lot of the causal mechanisms of all. But the notion that there are two separate essences in the world I think is pretty much been debunked by modern science. So yes, I mean we have a brain that's a physical system and it produces the mind. And that's what we have is a physical system. So does that rule out the possibility that there's some other physical process in the universe that we don't know about? No, it doesn't. I mean, there could be and probably is. But this notion that there are these two separate causal systems, one the physical and the other the non-physical. Cartesian dualism. Yeah, it's Cartesian dualism and- So does that go against almost every core religious belief? Islam, Christianity, I feel like they all think- Yeah, it goes against a lot of them, I would say. The major one, it's a big three. Yeah, it does, yeah. All atheistic, for real. Yeah. Or even Hindu, oh yeah. Even a spirit, even an animist. Right. An animist, I believe so. So do you think the reason we do stuff and it appears to be free will, or we can't prove it's not free will, it's just the science isn't good enough to explain it yet, but one day it will be? Well, no, probably, so I mean if you just take humans out of the equation in physics, it's not a totally deterministic system. Exactly, ground and ocean. Yeah, it's probabilistic. So I was gonna explain it better than I could. But yeah, you can predict probabilistically what electrons will do, et cetera. Can you predict deterministically exactly what this electron will do under the, no, you can't. But it's actually against Heisenberg's principle. Right. You cannot know the momentum and location of any particle at the same time. That's like quantum physics. Yeah, it's quantum physics. It's gonna be probabilistic, but because we cannot reverse time, we cannot prove that it's not probabilistic. That is a problem. So free will be, basically we can never settle this argument because we cannot go back in time and play this simulation game one more time to see if we have different outcomes. But we can't. We can never be proven. Alex has a PhD in, not quantum physics, but you know, mechanical engineering. Right, right. But he knows what he's talking about. But I think we can all agree. I think everybody here would agree that there is an illusion of free will. We all have the illusion that we are deciding at every moment, oh okay, I'm gonna decide to do this. I'm gonna decide to forego that. So we do have the illusion of free will. Even if there's free will, we have the illusion. But here's the thing. But if there is the only illusion of free will, should we be sending people to prison? Let me take a more practical field. Then there's no response. No, no, no. See, that's a fallacy. That's a fallacy. Of course we should because the act of holding people accountable for their actions is an environmental causal force that causes people to be more accountable for their actions. Right, so you're saying. So by that, that says that free will exist. As a matter of fact. But no, it doesn't say that free will exist. It just says there's a causal influence on people's deterministic behavior.