 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tom. What's up, buddy? How you doing? Hello friends? How's it going? No, it's going pretty good. It's a new year And so that means it's time for resolutions for thinking about new armies for new hobby projects for planning stuff out That's what we're gonna be talking about today We're gonna be doing a little discussion of do your new army and strategies If you want to build out a new force, this is it's more evergreen than just the new year But this tends to be the time of year where people think about this sort of thing So that's what we're gonna talk about. But of course first we have all the normal stuff for you. So let's start with some news What do we got? We have a rumor engine We do. What do you think it is? I don't know not not painted very well Yeah, like I'm sorry to whoever did this I'm sorry, they made you rush or or this thing is so tiny that just there was no other option, but I Hope it's not an AOS thing. How about that? Yeah, I I don't know. I mean it The mace looks machine Sure And so that kind of points to me towards the fact that I don't think that it is That I don't think that it is anything I Don't think that it is I don't think it's a OS We'll see I guess we'll see it's not very interesting. That's what I'll say Sure, it is that it is that But you know like, okay Yeah, I Mean it is what it is. Hey, did we ever I'm totally gonna go off. Oh wait. Yeah, never mind I'm not going off track. That's on the news. Oh the news. So how about that? How about that model of the year? I guess that wasn't real surprising to you Well, that's the you're skipping around in my in the way. I have it listed I listed the news as how I have a picture set up Tom Okay, we'll find fine. We'll go back. We'll go to the store anniversary models. Let's talk about that Vince There you go. Thank you, Tom. See you see when I when I'm trying to do, you know Things like make sure that people have the art here Okay, whatever. I'm being extemporaneous Adds and what it is and stuff Okay Okay At any rate, yeah store anniversary models. These are the new ones for the year. Here's the thing about it This is the 40k one. Obviously. It's a legend's a vote and do or at least a vote and do or whatever. Yeah, right? He looks really good. He looks basically like the hero that's already there in the box. So yeah, fine. Yeah, um cool Look and do This is the AOS one I know I'm so excited. I don't care what you say. I don't care if you don't like it I love him. Okay. Well, then share your love for this guy, Tom Dude, he's a model maker like you and me that dude is Amazing, I love him so much and you know, like he's sure he's the worst hero out of all of them the Andrew master I don't care about that. I love him. I'm going to buy two of him That's definitely happening because I want both the boat and the helmet Okay, okay. I love it and I'll do a weapon swap for it. It'll be great So what were you gonna be critical of he has a toy boat Yeah, it's cute sure like that is so small in reality That is gonna be so annoying to paint No, I mean like he's clearly connected at the wrist, right? So what you do is sure paint it separate You like attach it to like a painting stick and you paint it separate and then you glue it on Thank you for explaining the concept of sub-assemblies to me. Yeah Hey, I hear I hear some of the best painters do it and you know, maybe it's a thing that'll pick up Maybe, you know, like slap job. Maybe people start this like bits and pieces Painting technique. It'll be great. Sure Yeah, it's it's fine like it's another KO foot guy If he if he wasn't holding a tiny toy boat, he would be completely unremarkable. That's my issue with him Like if there's nothing Take the toy boat out of his hand. I couldn't tell you the difference between this guy and any of the existing heroes for Corridor and overlords That's the issue. Well, I mean, that's the problem with the line not like so everybody is correcting me that he is an admiral and not a And not an Endred master like I hear that and I know that they said that the animals battle scars blah blah blah blah in the directions That doesn't matter because he's wet. He's wielding a Sculph hammer and the only person who wields that is the Endred master Well, this just all leads exactly back to my point. I mean, this is exactly what I just was talking about Y'all can't even agree on which type of hero he is the entire army is Arranged by the weapons each unit wields. I understand So like and by the way, I like that's all fine. What you said it didn't have to be that way They could have done anything with him Like he doesn't have you said the whole army looks beautiful. He's beautiful shut your mouth I'm so excited for this dude. I'm glad you're excited for him. He's certainly not a bad model. I'm not saying that I think the by the way, you know what this tells me what's that? This was the box hero That KO was gonna get when they were only gonna get a book and a hero And what happened was they couldn't figure out the book So they gave this guy to be the model in for the for the anniversary model Which confirms that I'm not getting the KO KO book update because this is This is the like army box model that you would have gotten Which would have been admiral with skull hammer skull hammer Uh three three three teapot by the way says only admiral's wields staff hammers Andron masters have two-handed hammers So he's he's calling you out. That's that's straight up calling you out On your KO knowledge See I would never claim such a thing because I don't know anything about all these guys and what they look like Tom's calling his shenanigans, but this whole thing of I was so happy to see this Uh As part of our discussion this week that is to say that the two store anniversary models Our leagues of otan guy and a KO guy and that is going to dovetail Very nicely into a later discussion we have so just put a pin on that We're just gonna set up this little check-offs gun right now for later in the show You're gonna buy this store anniversary model. That's not what I'm saying It's not what I'm saying Now tom Yes, we can talk about the thing you wanted to talk about Uh, I was just gonna mention that uh the model of the year Uh, yes a little bit of a surprise to me clearly not to you because you thought it would be the uh the avatar I did I did think it would be the avatar and I was correct Yep, I thought it would be the uh the demon prince which took a second Sure Well that the whole army box effectively somehow that's a model, but sure I don't know how they do that, but okay. I'll I'll I'll allow it. That's fine Bill thank you very much. We're glad to have you along buddy. It's good to good to have you here. Um many acts an awesome dude Uh, and I'm forever grateful. He did that video. Um the nature of this box Does not surprise me. It took second place. These figs are all amazing Obviously even though as we've said many times the slaves of darkness that the head they decided to include In the model was a bit derpy Yeah, but at the same time Doesn't this seem like cheating that this is the whole box set put up against it? Is this what aos needs to be competitive? Is this is this what we have? This is what we've resorted to to place in the top three Yeah Yeah, we have to put we have to put a whole box Against one fig But we're there Sure Yeah, I mean sure we're second place again the the perennial slot of uh Of aos the second place third place is like it's like 40k model aos model 40k model every year Every year You know tom i'm starting to think that this might not be a just a straight democratic vote That there might be a bit of finger pushing on the scales here. Okay I'm starting to suspect because the population of 40k players is 22 three times out of aos players Uh, it's at least that but I would be surprised if we we even got second. That's what i'm saying I think I think they just gave us this consolation prize. I suspect consolation prize. That's what i'm That's actually probably accurate Yeah, so you know what? I'll take it. Sure I mean that said that said that demon prince does show up in 40k And so maybe some 40k but we got we got the crossover vote. Is that what you're saying? Yeah Yep, sure. I mean you take the chosen you just put a gun in their hands done and dust it boom You got a 40k model easy done Give him a bolter Yeah, very easy very easy Um, cool The the final news item Yeah, I don't have a piece of art for it. I just have this I have the actual thing I'm just gonna hold it up. Uh, so this right here This is as you can see there we go. We'll get real close Worked with pro acquir pro acryl with monument hobbies And jason and uh designed six colors for their range myself And john john has them launching as well They're gonna be coming out real soon Check your local game stores if your local game store carries pro acryl. You'll see them in stores pretty soon You'll also be able to order them. Uh, I don't believe it. I believe next week No, so don't believe it because that teal is not teal enough Well, that wasn't the goal of the thing to make a try in Like the thing is to our palette. No, no, that's what it is the what it should have been I don't care about your launch. What it should have been Is the vents color palette like the vents all models in one box This I hate to bring it to you tom, but that's what this is I mean, it's really close. No, don't get me wrong. It's really close Yeah, so teal is just not teal enough. That's what i'm saying. It's not poppy They already have a teal. I can't just make a second paint. That's the same You're like, I'm gonna take this. This is mine now. No, it was it's six new paints. These are not other paints in the range Uh, so they're brand new Yeah, it has dark jade, panes gray royal purple white blue beige red and dark yellow green And these are all six colors that I did and then john's Has dark ivory dark magenta dark warm flash dark plum warm brown and red gray. There you go. So They'll be available next week I like I like effrin's names, which should have been leather daddy black vincy teal gaven gray And warmth off white Very nice solid names I mean, but those all check out absolutely So very excited jason was awesome to work with it was super fun and i'm i'm Literally using all of those paints right now At the well not not at this exact moment. So I guess not literally I was literally using them up until five minutes before we started recording. How about why am I not surprised? It's literally your color palette in the box. Yeah, yeah Uh, so so there you go. Um mike unfortunately, it is it is it is zero percent Now i'm sure jason and the people who make the paint Maybe they got maybe they got a few drops in there here or there But no, I I did not have to be involved in the manufacturing process Nor did jason ask for any bodily fluids of me to use in the paint I believe they use very careful mixes of of appropriate additives But yeah, uh, so very excited about that super cool. Um, and so yeah That's that's what I have to say There you go, they'll be in your stores and they'll be launching like to the public next week. So So amazing so amazing Uh, so check them out spread the word and with that, I think we're over to uh, some pick of the week So what are you sharing with everybody? Yeah, so uh earlier today, uh friend of the show Hey, whoa did a focus deep dive on ogre mall tribes Yep And as we are moving into the new year and i'm looking for potential possible armies I've had my eye On the dad bought ogres for a while. Sure. I don't know. I don't know if they're going to be that army But i've been watching them I could do with a barbeque do uh paint up a barbeque pit It's all sure Big gumbo stew Or hot tub I mean how uh The question is going to be tom Do you convert said ogres over to the uh over to the island Lifestyle, I would have to I would have to I would do like big like feather head dresses and just the whole the whole classic look I mean, I would definitely do that if I if I pulled the trigger Uh, very nice the challenge is is that I have so much fire oriented stuff already Sure. Yeah, like literally you need to get into the winter spirit. Is that what it is? Well Unlike you I'm gonna open this way unlike you I enjoy trying to explore other palates and for me um, I find this funny obviously given your recent new year, uh Your new year video where you're like, hey, look at all the different palates of the different things that I did. Um Uh, I I've done enough orange I have two armies that have orange in it. I really don't want to do another one. Um, when I do red, I'm gonna do my corn stuff. So um Yeah, I don't know that I could do another fire me. That's what I would say It would have to probably be an ice army if I did that. Um Yeah Just sort of warm their icy hearts with a cool island song or whatever the joke is um The you can do a fire and ice mix to help you possibility. Sure. No, that's good. Uh That's a very good pick of the week. Uh, my pick is going to be for our buddy Travarian Uh, who has his own little discussion of the warhammer model of the year Uh, who who launched up a video yesterday. That's very good. Go check that out Both of those will be linked, uh down below Uh, so Check them out. All right next up Let's talk a little hobby time. This is going to be short for me. Uh, unfortunately, but you tom, what are you working on? Uh, uh, well I was working on a board Um, and then I had a basement flood Yep, so that's a hobby bummer Um, so I spent a long time moving wet things the over the last couple out of last day or two um And so some of that's on hold right now I uh, I uh, yeah Yeah, okay. No, that's projects are on hold while I fix my house That's totally fair. Um, I am working on a model. I'm using the new paints Uh, both mine and john's Recording all that for a video Um, I'll actually probably do two videos out of it just for for different purposes but, um Unfortunately, I can't show you the model yet So, so that's what I'm working on. I cannot explain what the model is nor show it But trust me there's a model right here just off camera touching it right now And uh, it's getting painted with those new paints and it's a super cool model. So there you go. That's my that's my hobby time um Yeah, that's that's the least interesting thing I've shared all year Uh, but there we go Uh, I promise in future weeks. I'll try to paint things that are publicly available more often so I can actually show them. All right uh cool Let's keep that short and sweet Tom in record time We're gonna head on over to the main topic of this week Don't lie. Don't lie to our audience. I've gotten to a topic of the week in 15 minutes not 20 Well, this was 18 minutes and 15 seconds So I know Tyler Sure, sure Uh, so new year new army uh question mark Uh, all right Here's the question Before we get into the actual new year new army strategies. Tom, I think it's important at this time of year We all take a moment to reflect on our lives and where we find ourselves in this great journey through existence We've chosen this arbitrary day the passage of one year into another Uh, that we all sit back and examine the existential nature of our own Place in the wider universe and then we get together and make resolutions About the new year that will quickly break uh, so What are your hobby resolutions for the new year Tom? But what what what are you what are you doing? What hobby wise in general? What are your resolutions? Yeah, um, I'm gonna have I'm gonna finish a fieldable force of the so blight Um, I am well on my way to accomplishing that Um, I have some painting commissions that I have to knock out. Um, they have stretched way too long uh, and That's that's the cleanup um, the um, I I want to learn some new techniques There's a couple. Um, there's a couple things that I I want to get better on. I want to get better with my medals um And uh Yeah, yeah, that's what i'm working on right now. All right fair enough Uh, mine are very simple. I think this year Uh, I want to be Proud of what I put in the case Yeah, I had a depticon at golden demon Um And that's a really hard thing to accomplish. I think Uh, because when you when you're painting for competition, especially when you put it in the case All you ever really feel is the flaws and and the whatever's Your piece always seems inferior always seems lacking and I think that'll still happen But I want to know at least that I whatever I put in there I put the maximum amount of effort that I could Could achieve into the thing Uh, and so that's that's a goal um We'll see whether or not I accomplish it, but you know, I'm I'm on the way Uh, I want to do a new army this year That's fun Uh, I really enjoyed Creating the rat cast and everything, but I'll be completely honest. It wasn't very fun um The nature of sort of the paint scheme as this You know very intense non-metallic red like the worst thing to do in non-metallic Just made the whole arduous process really unfun like creating the dragon was the most fun part because it He barely had any armor on him, right? It was just like actually doing a bunch of big conversions and stuff like that And so I want to find something I can really have have fun with Uh, and maybe that means not Painting to the same level of killing myself Maybe that maybe it doesn't I don't know, but but whatever the process is I want to have fun with it Um, and then lastly uh for my hobby resolutions I really want to do One to two pieces that have nothing to do with game's workshop In simplest form Like one to two display pieces that Will take a long time. It gets really hard to do those when you make videos every week about the hobby Because I mean unless you guys want to watch like the same model show up every week You know for like four weeks in a row in a video as I slowly work my way around it Uh, it just doesn't make for good TV. Like it doesn't doesn't really pull the views as it were right And I don't care about that as much, but I care about it a little um and So it just gets hard to set aside enough time to sit there and go okay for the next three weeks or or whatever I'm going to do nothing but but work on this You know what I what I hope is a pretty high-end project But I want to do a couple pieces that I'm really proud of as Art or whatever that means Uh, you know, even though I've always said many times that I don't I don't consider myself an artist and I still think that's true um I want to I want to do some pieces that I at least feel like okay. I I created something here that's That's cool. That's memorable. That's impactful Whatever whatever whatever right and those will probably go to to nova or something like that Um, but that's my goals. I think those are reasonable. I think those are achievable Um, you know other than just general growth, but that's not that's not a measurable thing You know, I'm a big believer that like if a goal is going to be a goal It has to be something you can actually reach not a sort of just ongoing thing of like I'm going to be a better person like okay, um It's not that you shouldn't try to do that. It's just that's not A goal-based thing to me um So that that kind of thing is what I'm I'm aiming for Uh, yeah, we'll see how I see how I get on um, I already know for sure one of the figures that I that I want to do in that high level display thing and um We'll go from there. Let's see what else catches my eye um All right Yes, exactly. Cygnus said smart. You know, you're you're exactly right Cygnus. That's that is exactly correct SMRT by the way is what he's he's it's obviously what he's pointing to it the acronym uh, okay I see a lot of other people mentioning their their items uh And like their own resolutions and I think that's good I think it's interesting to have them But I think on the end don't let them hang over your head Like if you set a resolution, then you don't get there don't let it crush you or feel bad about it or anything like that um Like ryan said as a new painter lots of built gray models I want to stop worrying about how bad my models might look painted and just start painting ryan I support that a thousand percent because your models are always going to look bad To you in the future like the more you paint the more you'll learn and you'll look back on what you painted Uh, originally and think to yourself God, I didn't know what I was doing at all All right, and and that's part of the beauty of the journey like I have so many figs That are that at the time I was like, oh, this is great. I nailed it and I look at it now and I'm like Oh god, this is a nightmare. What was I thinking? This is horrible. So that's just the journey, man I say get into it get amongst it. There's no there's no other way you'll you'll get there than to learn Uh, w soren said so how many battle tech minis will you be painting this year actual battle tech minis a full zero W soren because battle tech minis are horrible and ugly uh Battle tech mechs are beautiful and amazing And fantastic and I love them and then they print them and tiny one inch little metal minis and they make me want to die um, and if I could find the 3d prints of the 2750 uh variants that I want not the later variants Uh, then I would I would be doing tons of those giant robots and be very happy about it So there you go Okay So that's our resolutions. Now, let's jump like a hobby challenge for some sculptor I really wish they would I think there's a particular set of original 2750 Frames that I've been looking for you know what the answer to that is sure Go find a sculptor that you like and just commission them to do it and commission them to do it And then and and then like go in and see if other people want to help. That's what happened with that techless model Yeah, but I like that doesn't I guess It feels like i'm doing something wrong like i'm commissioning a model of an actual Thing like that already exists. It's already a model somewhere You know, but is it like a 3d printable scalable model? Or you can have like a no it doesn't exist in this form so yeah Like and you know when selling it Like you're like you're not you're not like so Um, it would be as if you commissioned a painter to paint a painting I guess I don't know. I'm not sure. I just Maybe I maybe it's okay. Maybe it's not like I if I was doing it just for me Like if I paid somebody just to do it for me and not put it up for other people to sell I'd be fine with it because like no, that's what that's what i'm saying I'm not saying uh like put it at people to make it to market because you can't do that without copyright without Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah I'm like that techless model that i'm talking about has never been sure Like it was it was made available to those that that actually commissioned the creator. I'm on board now. I'm on board Yeah, it's a good idea. Um, I mean all the art's there. Just be like This is the 2750 black knight. I would like this exact thing. Yeah, exactly So as as they are you're right as long as not selling it. It was just like a personal Yeah, and you can and you could and you could and you could do that in the contract, right? Like you could write up a contract with them and and dictate that they don't Sell it later. I mean that'll it'll increase the cost exponentially, but yeah Cool. All right. I see some good resolutions here in the chat. I love it. It's fantastic. All right, tom Let's talk about the actual topic here Let's talk about the new year new army, right? Uh I think making a new army Is like one of the hardest things you can do in miniature board aiming, right? Yep Like deciding let me say it this way It's often easy to buy the thing. It's often hard to pick the thing and paint the thing The only part of this whole process that's simple Is the part that people often run a ground on right where they hit the rocks Uh, and that is just going and clicking add to cart Right, sure Like that's simple. I'm real. I'm real good at that. Sure Uh To me actually choosing the army is really hard and then thinking is it like Way to weighing the cost the interest I have in it. How long will I be interested in it? How much passion do I have for this? How complex is the painting? You know, how fun is this army to play? Am I gonna actually enjoy it? All of that stuff, right? So so like How do you choose? How do you plan? How do you execute and and what happens if you lose steam if you go off the rails? That's what I want to talk about today That's that's what I want to focus on. Okay Yeah, no, I think that that's good. I think that's good. Um, let's talk high level strats first before we get to the details Because yeah, it's not easy Right So so let's talk about just for a moment some of our past trials and travails with this So for example, you mentioned the soul like rave lords army. You're literally in the middle of Yeah, yep Walk through the thought process there. How did you come to it? What prompted it? Yeah all that sort of thing No, it's a great. It's a great. So I So it was a combination of a couple things one I got super hyped with curse city last year And so and I really liked all of the beer coast models Like it had this kiss love feel and I was like, you know, you know, I'm interested in that, right? And so I just kind of like tangentially started adding to my collection as I saw good deals You know, but I didn't really have a concept, right? Like I hadn't like And what I've learned is that unless I have like a Like a burning vision For an army Like that army will just not get painted and I'll just dink around and stuff will sit on its shelf and And it has to be distinct for me. Like I can't like it. It can't be just run of the mill So here's a great example. Okay. So years ago we did a um Right when aos launched we did a new army new secondary army Run, so we did like this budget over six months where we would spend like I don't know. What was it $50 a month? I think so. That sounds about right. Sure It was 50 a month and the whole idea was and you couldn't buy more models until you paint an old model, right? Yep and So I did dwarves And I got in and I started painting and everything was just stock Which was awesome because I had like but it was a contest that was driving me and what ended up happening was when the contest ended I still had stuff I wanted to paint And I've never touched it since Sure Because it it wasn't interesting to me. There was nothing about the army that actually drew me to it other than completed models That looked appropriate to the boxer Right Like and so and that was just not enough for me to be passionate about the project fast forward a couple years to my ko When I fell in love with that project. It was two years later It was dwarves again And I was coming off of this loss and I just wasn't sure Like I just wasn't sure like I wanted to go in because I really didn't have a clear vision And then it was a it was a it was an amalgamation of the lore And of some of the models and some of the way that all the all that fit together and my concept for my conversion That I was like, that's it. That's what I wanted. So I went all in And I painted it over the course of like a year and a half two years Sure And I have a very very large ko force now Um, maybe larger than anybody else in the world I don't know. That's a That I'm sure what's I'm sure. Uh, what's his name in Australia? I gotcha Like I have he has he has he has cosplay for the ko man. He's he's ready to go. I I hear that I hear that I mean like Yeah, so I mean I have everything painted painted and I have like variants of multiple ships and stuff like that at this point and stuff like that so, um But Yeah, so it was the vision that carried It not only carried me through that army. It carried me through a fire slayer army as well And the city's army that was all tangential to the narrative that I've been painting With the ko like that spilled out of that narrative that made me want to paint those other things as part of their story Right, you know, and so so like it went from like a one a one army bit like Concept to way larger because it went to like a cities of sigmar army that was That was associated with the fire slayers and then it went over to like the pure traditionalist fire slayers Rather than those yeah, and that rather than those that had been Kicked out of the hearth and so it was just a whole bunch of stuff that just spun out of control to the point now where I have like 20 000 points of painted fires of dwarfs that are all super distinct so Um, yeah Yeah No, I agree and I think you hit on several key items there that we're going to drill in on which is one What is it that makes something pop for you? That's a really important question to answer, right? I never answered your original question. Okay That was the soul flight so to bring this back to soul sure like what what what made me sit down with a hundred zombies Yeah, right because that's like and that's not the virgos the irony is that that's not what Like so I had this thing that drew me to the models and to the army But that's not actually what got me painting what got me painting was a joint army A team event that we were we're going to be painting for and we concepted up the like fregenstein's monster zombie like Boogaloo, right sure and ironically it was the it was the war band The underworlds war band That got me painting my zombies yep Because it meshed with what your army that you were going to bring was Right and so the combination of those things is what motivated me to like jump in and to do my conversions and to do all that stuff. So um Yeah, does that answer it? It does because yeah, like that's what I'm saying, right? I think that it's important for you the first question you got to ask yourself is what motivates you And for I think for you and I there's a there's a similarity here and maybe for some of our audience that is It comes from the inspiration of Here is this idea this concept this theme this vibe whatever And that can be very tactical like here is my set of conversions that I'm doing or here's the Feel I want them to have or the color scheme or you know, you know, whatever it happens to be and That has to be in place for me. That's absolutely the case as well But I don't think everybody's like that and then the next thing is figure out what motivates you Right does the idea alone motivate you is is it having it ready for a tournament? Is it working through like a challenge an escalation league like you mentioned we did back in the day? Right What is it that's going to actually keep you at the desk and and working on the whole thing? Do you just have the discipline to be like nope? I love this thing. I want this thing. I'll paint this thing cool If that's you Go for it, right, but you got to know yourself to some degree. I think I think For me, I think it's really funny. Sure. Like for me like I have to have an event on the table And if I don't have an event on the table, nothing's getting painted It's interesting because I think the question of the army asks more about us And when you're motivated to collect a new force, then it says anything about the army I really think it's mostly about answering questions about you and understanding how you yourself interact with the hobby. All right so Let's start simple tom Let's talk about our new army plans for the year, okay You already mentioned a little of it Your soul blight Now is there anything else over this course of the year that you'd say like to finish that you already started working? Yeah, so So one of the big things that I would like is look I am wanting to increase my Focus on my children and on playing with them And so what that means is that uh, like yes, I'm finishing my soul blight But part of that is because I want to do my first city set Mm-hmm Um, and I want to have a fully painted everything right of fur cursed city Which which is functionally at this point the entire soul blight army, right? um So that's a piece of it And then so it's it's doing that but then also helping them in their own journeys of getting their stuff painted And then doing some quick paints on on my son's uh fleshier court So like most of my goals actually interestingly i'm shifting from the event-based thing to more of a family oriented stuff so okay Is there any other army that's on your radar for this here besides uh, besides soul blight um I've had a couple that have been backing me um One is my zangor But the problem is is that like zangor b's been got hyped way too big and got too effective And that's the other thing that pushes against my psyche like anything anytime goes mainstream Like I lose interest in sure Um, like that's my johnny coming out and so i'm like, oh Zangor are competitively hot and that's what everybody's doing. I'm just not as interested right um So I had zangor beastman Um, I've been kind of looking at ogres. That's possibility Um, I have glooms fight from a couple years ago that I have many of the models I have a bunch of stuff built, but I don't have my like own vision Right um Of what they're going to be that's distinct, which is why I just stop right sure like it wasn't enough to just have mushrooms everywhere Which is what is basically happening. I was like it was just super elaborate facing and I was like cool Um, I was going to do a neon black light theme on them. But again, that wasn't enough to to really carry them through So so I backed off and just wanted to wait and see if something something strikes me Okay, totally fair See, I have a simple answer for this yeah and uh Well, first of all, I support mani who says the obvious answer for you tom is serifon Uh, and just all I mean if I did I'm just gonna call it if I did it would be in a pure 80s callback of dino writers Like it would be an entire dino writers themed army with the dudes with the weird helmets and the bodysuits Writing on dinosaurs instead of skates like that. Sure. That's if I do it. That's where I'm going Lots of great connected deal Not so great on that army right exactly Uh, waffles enjoyer says hipster hammer. I agree with that Uh, yes, tom is always a bit of hipster hammer with it Like he wants to be off meta in some way making something that shouldn't win be better. That's that that's his inner johnny Right, but exactly. I mean, I was playing night haunt Really before they got good and then they got like pretty mainstream and I'm just like Cool, so boy, maybe This army you might not have heard about It's only only some only some few people in in cool coffee shops in brooklyn know about it Uh, but yeah for me. I've locked in on on A project now there's before I say that I'll say this I am obviously extremely interested into what comes of Cities of sigmar right go on like that Whole redesign is compelling right And yes, artoria city is absolutely a common johnny trait. Um Um Because it's going to be a whole army redesign so The reality is it could be anything it could be a boat right Um When you don't know what units you're gonna get or what it is, but it's a cool concept It'll be the most modern possible sculpts It is a thing. I generally like like I've painted cities armies up before like I have a city's army right now um and so You know I I could see a world where something came out there and I thought yeah, this is super cool However However I have a sneaking suspicion tell him i'm not gonna like it very much all right I just think you're you're saying the paint style you're not gonna like Or do you think that like the city's army in general? I don't think oh you're saying the city's army Not your concept army. You're you're you're saying the new city stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly like Like what don't you think you're gonna like about it? I think it'll be a bunch of still Baroque nonsense That doesn't compel me is the shortest answer What if there's a heavy religious element to it? I could do something could not I'm not saying I think it's gonna be bad. I'm not at all Please do not mishear me here. Yeah. Yeah, um I just think it's gonna be full of a bunch of things that drive me completely insane You know, that's fair. That's fair. Uh Cygnus, I wish we would get a synth wave Uh type of thing like I understand that I wish we had something in the mortal realms that was more Like that like where's where's my where's my For to keep referencing this game. We can go ahead and take a drink right now But you know, where's my neon dynasty? right That's that's what i'm looking for um but the I just think that it's gonna be stuff where it just it just doesn't land for me Yeah, and as manny said that like if it's for me if it's witch hunters and fanatics and warrior priests I'm in sure Sure, like if they lean into that aesthetic and like if if I can make an army of that cool You have my attention. Yeah, which could be a nice element. So I guess it depends on what we'll see I'm not writing it off. I'm keeping it on the on like the back burner, right like a well, we'll see Okay Yeah, because it could be cool. It could be more floofy panted Baroque nonsense. There's the city stuff But again, if they lean into like an order of azure as like a keyword faction within sure if there's enough there to do it Okay, and and you know what if there's not I might still do uh a conversions with sisters sigmar and go just the whole deal like It would be a nice it'd be a It would be really nice if they sort of leaned into that but but here we are Yeah, um, and I already have a lot of armies obviously, right? Oh And so that the number of new armies I could start has grown progressively smaller every year, but I generally like to do an army every year and I know an army. I think you would like but well, there's a reason I picked the particular piece of art That's up on the screen right now One because it's got a zangor dude in the bottom left, which I knew you had had Talked about before right? I knew that was going to be good for you. Yeah and the Other reason is because it's a thing full of ko Now what I want to do All right is a leagues of otan ko army Like i'm just going to take the entire leagues of otan stuff and convert it over I won't use a single ko model. I might use ko bits Could you've anticipated you're doing ko and i'm doing zinch Well, that'd be very funny because yes, that was the the original flip but but uh Hey, look germ i'm not hating on the floofy pants. I'm saying well. I am I guess I hate the floofy pants There's nothing wrong with them. So yes, I am personally hating you got me But like I won't I don't want the balloons. I don't like the aesthetic of ko as it exists in the world. Sure. Okay sure But I really like the aesthetic of of The leagues of otan. I think they look super cool and So in general I thought Yeah, I could do that Right And I'll just convert over everything into Like they have The the the turtle truck into a steam tank An ally. No, it would it would just be the ironclad. It's the biggest ship There are three different vehicles Okay Yep in the leagues of otan line at least as of right now. Okay A little trike All right, which is perfect for your gun hauler There is a little mid-sized vehicle Which is all you got to do is make it fly and then it's perfect for your frigate And then there is the hecaton land cruiser or whatever, which is perfect for your ironclad Done and dusted But yes, they're they're normally uh like wheeled some of them are wheeled vehicles normally So you got to make those fly. That's not hard. You just get rid of the wheels Easy You put other things beneath them. Yeah make make them like hover energy things. Yeah, sure exactly Uh talon says vince doesn't like balloons confirmed city states will be a hundred percent blimp based Sure. I I believe it just just blimps everywhere um So if and yes the trike is like a hover trike by the way, it's already flying So it's just the the two other vehicles you would need to convert to be flying So, um I'd be down for that and like by the way their troops match really well There's like a really nice Almost one to one with the various troops That you would need to be doing like there's a great So the the the regular hearth guard or whatever are like perfectly simple arcanaught and so on and so forth up the line I'm a big fan of grim near That dude looks sweet talking about santa claus. He's talking about space santa claus. Yeah space santa claus rules Uh, he's amazing um The are you gonna do any conversions on them or are you just gonna do them? Yeah, sure. No, no, absolutely. They'd be converted like I'll probably hit you up for ko bits and use use the actual ko Weapons as opposed to the 40k weapons and stuff like that, right? And I have lots of that. Yep Um, but I would do them all with open a lot of them with open face Yeah, or whatever like not not use their helmets Well, I have lots of ko heads like stock heads as well So if you wanted to you would have no because the the the boxes come with awesome dwarven female heads Which is the problem? That I don't like the way like all dwarven dude heads look exactly the same. They look exactly the same. It's all the same guy Okay, and it just holds no interest for me Yeah, um, I don't like dwarves as a as a like that is to say fantasy But you're making a war for me Sure, who called that on their bingo card this year Well, I haven't made it yet. So let's not take the credit for that, but um, I still have to do it But I love the um Like but I love the idea of just making it all Female um because the the female votan head sculpts are all really strong They're all really nice. Um, it's some of the best like female heads. They've ever done um, so uh Like that's that was just a simple boom done. There we go Uh easy easy peasy um, yeah, and Uh, so so that's that's my army plan. I think it'd be really fun It'd be a cool conversion project because like yeah, like I said, I would integrate some KO stuff here and there like bits, you know to make them more interesting I do want them to feel like they're still seated in this world And not like I just painted a 40k army for aos, right? Like I would want to make them feel like they're They're part of the world late aos. Yeah. Yeah, ironically I would be taking two land-based vehicles and making them sort of flying vehicles I'm upscaling the technology to move them into the mortal realms As as somebody pointed out you could do drills on the front And make them tunneling Uh, no, I won't I want that that land vessel if it was a floating thing will look awesome Like I'm just I can I can picture that in my head Uh, like that was one of the first things that really really locked me into this um So There you go. Uh, so that's my idea Uh Mick Guffalo says when are you going to enter uh to middle earth strategy battle game? I played it back in the day the original whatever when it wasn't called that like when it first came out I played lord of the rings or whatever it was called at the time Um back in the early 2000s like right after the movies And it was fine. It's just the my problem with it is Uh Is it's true scale it's true 28 millimeter scale. I want bigger figs not smaller figs I'm I'm old and getting older every day somehow that keeps occurring despite all my attempts otherwise, so Uh continued like smaller figs. No, no, no, no No, no, no, no small true scale stuff. That's that's straight out Um malpho I have the same problem with like no, I want big chunky Uh, you know heroic scale stuff Uh, I want to go I want to travel up the journey push toward the 40 millimeter side of the spectrum there So, um, there you go Um, all right, so that's us and our plans. I want to know what your plans are if you're watching this later Comment about it. What's your what's your plan? What's your cool idea? And see in both in all of our cases there tom that we're talking about that It's it's the concept Right like for me These votan guys I want to do them as cool kao pirates and so That's the idea and like having all of those conversions and things I get to play with big vehicles, which I like Painting these are all things that I enjoy, right? I I like the concept. I like the You know the the the painting process should be fun I'm missing one thing though tom for kao and I'll tell you why I won't do this project until it happens Like this will be a late in the year Project I can say that already. You know why I know that Why because I hate the current kao book And as much as that shouldn't be a hurdle It just is Like I need to feel like I enjoy the book some I don't need to be powerful I don't need it to be great. I don't need it to be winning or broken or bent I just need to actually enjoy Yeah, and it's just not right now. That's what's holding me back No, I agree with that. I mean, there's a reason why I'm not playing that book Yeah, like I have a very thoroughly, you know, like award-winning painted army That has not hit the table because I don't enjoy the book. Yep. Yeah, it's a problem right and That's why uh Uh, you know, that's why I think the rules matter Not completely. They're not the only thing. They're not the determinant thing But we talked a couple of some episodes back about the idea of gates You know, like if you don't pass this it's it's necessary but not sufficient Yeah And that feels like one of the things to me if if the book is just completely unfun Which is what I think kao is right now Uh Then I don't want to play it Okay, I that's that's not going to motivate me because some part of me painting it while I'm painting it I'm thinking about the fun. I'm going to have Playing it on the table Right, I'm getting excited to like put my models down and be like, yeah, let's do this. Let's roll some dice right And when I have nothing When when nothing in karadron overlords book Interests me even in the slightest To play that's a problem. Yeah, right So, okay No, I agree with that. I do I do So let's take this back to to brass tacks here All right, let's talk about picking and planning All right, because we both talked about it So we we've both arrived at some kind of picking and we're both thinking about planning right now. This is the stage we're in Okay Yeah and to me This is the this is sort of the thing right like there are I have at least four considerations When I'm thinking about A new army All right one price How expensive is this going to be? Right I mean that's a concern to Play experience and my tastes or your tastes if you're watching this right like what do you like to play? You know if you like to play an aggressive Run out there smash face getting a lot of melee fights force and then you look at lumenath and you're like This is the army. I want to play you're gonna have a bad time Right that is pizzing when you shoot a french fry. Yeah, okay The painting complexity How and that by the way isn't necessarily that could mean the individual models are overwrought and over detailed That could just mean you've got Scaven in a hundred and fifty clan rats. You get a hundred and forty clan rats. You got to paint or whatever Right And then the play complexity Right not the play experience the play complexity How much complexity in a book can you tolerate? All right, because armies have a spectrum of this Yeah, different people and different like different psychographic profiles are gonna have different answers to that because for me like I don't mind a real complex play experience Um, I know in general for you you like to push your toys forward like you like to have some tricks But you like to push your I do So you want to have all the mobility tricks and you want to have big smashy guys? This is correct I am I am a lot of timmy. It's not the only thing I am Um, but but yeah, and so I do like to have sure I like to have some tricks up my sleeve and some ways to play cleverly Or whatever Right But for the most part what I want is to have a big toy and to make my big toy go smash their toys Yes That's correct because smashing the enemy toys with your toys By virtue of the dicey roll not actually picking up your mega gargant and then slamming it down on the table repeatedly on top of There's although It would thrilling the one time you do it. Uh, it's not probably the play experience you're looking for So yeah, just like play complexity Yeah, I watch my buddy play lrl and I'm like nope You know, even if I thought that was a Everything else it ticked on those boxes if I thought the book was really good If I thought painting it wasn't going to be a pain if I thought I could get the army reasonably costed right Then I still wouldn't play it because it's just like nope. It's too much even with the new book It's although all of me. It's not as bad anymore So it's funny like price is not really an issue for me But at the same time he's like I was doing Well, no, I just like when I did my ko army like I was paying a hundred dollars per 10 arco, you know, like because I was I was I had to buy an entire Volcano like a both an arco box and a volkites Volkite berserker box, you know per, you know, just to get the mohawk because they there wasn't a secondary market for And so like I I would like to say that price is in general a restrictive thing for me But in general, it's not like if I'm passionate about a project I'll fork out just a stupid amount of cash for it um but At the same time I balance that by like I regularly buy a product that I may never paint or touch Because when I do see good deals I lock in the good deal and then I just resell it later if I decide not I don't want to do it And so I am in some sense some somewhat price sensitive Or if I do decide to make a jump into an army Like I'm only making a $200 decision rather than an 800 because over time I've accumulated a little bit of this and a little of that such that I already had a large portion of that arm So like for my zhengar army, this is a great example of this I have like 24 discs now unpainted and unassembled and like 30 zhengar and a shaman I'm still not sure I'm doing that army, but I have it You just found really good second or second second market Some stores were trying to get rid of boxes They had a bunch of aether war boxes They had a bunch of the luminite boxes and they were breaking it up and selling Stuff out of it and I was like, yeah, I'll take all the zheng just all of it because it was like 50 50 bucks per half or whatever Right, like of course, you're gonna eat that up when you when you see a deal like that And so I I'm sitting on all this ridiculous zheng I don't know if I'm gonna do that army, but but when I decide to do that army I'm gonna have almost everything that I need barring a couple purges right and so for me I take a different approach all often like buy accumulate and then I'll move later if I need to Gotcha But yeah, I also know not everybody like most people aren't like that. Sure But I also like I'm sensitive enough to the market to know like when I see a deal Like if if there's any chance that I'll ever play that thing Most of the time you're gonna sink the money into it and then just liquidate it later if I need to Gotcha So but again, most people aren't like that. So yeah, no, I mean, I'm not like I'm very considered and careful But this is I don't like to have a bunch of extra crap Sitting in my closet, right? That's what doesn't down to I have like an eight foot Stack of army like dual army boxes doesn't bother me at all like and boxes of that size, whether it be Um war cry boxes and all that all of it. It's fine. Whatever. Sure All right, so price may vary. I mean, obviously It's a big it's a big deal right for for a lot of people like that Some armies are considerably more expensive than others and and I think that that's Uh, like a big part of what you got to think about when you sit down Like when you're thinking about picking your army to me you got to look at like, okay What would this 2k force cost me primary market secondary market? What can I get on deals? What's going to be out there that kind of stuff, right? um And To me then it becomes play experience and the only way you actually get the play experience and the play complexity Is by doing the thing this is maybe that's just me Like you can watch our show. We'll talk about it You know, we'll whenever an army comes out. We'll talk about how complicated we think it is But whether or not it's going to meet your tolerance in my mind is a thing you only learn When you put it on the table Sure, sure and so doing things like proxying the army and playing a couple games with it is Invaluable experience to me um I've I do that with most new army projects that I I before I get into them unless I'm like so jazzed on my concept Right that I'm like, nope. I know I'm in for this. I love the book. I read the book I'm in for the book like at first blush. I'm a thousand percent in okay Uh, and then and there's just no question in my mind right And then the page in complexity. I think it's the same thing you got to paint a model You take you see you pick a model from the army. Whatever a standard dude is And you paint it Yeah Right and it's like was it fun? Do you have a scheme you like do you have a concept you like? Can you repeat this? You know ad nauseam without losing your mind Yeah I was afraid for example on my lumen f paint scheme that it was going to be too much Um, but when I did it like it was super simple and super fast And I was like, oh Maybe I'll do a whole army of this, you know It's that type of thing because of just how quick it came together Um, and so sometimes like don't over don't overlook, right? Um, when I like what a good simple paint scheme will do No, it's fair point. Absolutely And I agree chris h like 3d printed alternatives are out there If that's something if you have a 3d printer or you can always just go to, you know, like Some places on my manufacturer and so on you can you can have it be printed for you So, you know, that's also a great opportunity to keep the price down You know like a sons of bambam army can be one of the more expensive armies Or the absolute cheapest army in aos bar none period end of story Right, right and with that like you can also be strategic with the pieces that you're printing So for example, my son wanted a fleshy reports army and He you know, you can buy basically the entire army as getting started boxes Which by the way, if you're ever ever possibly may be interested in in fleshy reports Now is the time to go by getting started boxes Because when that book refreshes they will not be around So you need to get your army now because it is one of the cheapest if that army interests Okay, that's my bsx But uh, but with that what it was expensive was care first, right? Because he needed to have a bunch of the like courtiers and in order to do a courtier You either have to like not make all the models in a box Right and then the gavar both like everybody's gonna want to var golf They're like 40 dollars for a bad model, right? um And so like what I did was I reached out to my friend with the resin printer and I was like, hey I'm like I spent 10 bucks and had them print like all the courtiers and vulgar vulgar vulgar Absolutely vargolf vargolf All of them that what I would ever need Right, like two of the two had two different poses or whatever And you've got all that for like 10 bucks in sculpts, you know from the the retailer and so I say that to say Resin if you strategically resin print it can go a long way Yep, no, I think that's totally fair Um, you know the other items I don't have listed here that we mentioned Is like once you've crossed the hurdle of all of these things which to me all these things are like the necessary hurdles You got to get over Then it gets into the motivation Right of what makes it work for you Is it a concept? Is it the rules? Is it having an event where you want to bring it? Right, what is the thing that locks you in to a force? Does it just speak to your soul? I am a firm believer and I talked we talked about this in a previous episode But I am a firm believer That people choose armies on vibes That's it Okay By the way, if you if you if you vibe with your army hit the like button Don't forget to hit that like it helps the show. So there's my little call to action Yeah, don't forget to hit like everybody. I hope everybody's having a wonderful new year um Like I picked scaven on vibes. I thought they were cool and I vibe with them same with slanesh right and I think that but you're you're it's not just that but I think that's the beginning you've got to vibe with it You've got to find a paint scheme you've like you got to find a concept you like A basing scheme you're interested in like all of that stuff Mm-hmm Matters right Now I don't think it's really easy Let me say this I think it's really easy to get caught in a trap. Will you just think about this forever? Yep, that's all that's true where you just get stuck in the planning phase forever Well, I'm gonna do this, but I'm not sure about the base yet. I just can't get the color scheme right Da-da-da-da-da-da-da on and on and on and then you never do Right you you just you just plan right and To me That's that's where the real Uh Challenge comes in Yeah, yeah So I think What you've got to have is a concept That's the important part. So it's the difference between Uh A concrete plan and a concept right like I want to do the like when you sat down And you decided you want to do your soul blight and you wanted them to be you know our sort of universal movie monsters Yeah Horror thing you didn't have every color you were going to put on the zombies picked out No, not at all But you had a concept in general Yeah, right of where you were gonna go Yeah, right When I did my when I when I thought of my rat cast I didn't think of every element of them Right or what are they gonna be? I picked up one guy. I painted one guy And I got the the the experience of doing it and said okay This is what we're doing same with the orcs same with everything I've done right I I started from one and then went all I had my head was a concept not a not a detailed specific achievable measurable plan Yep Right And I think that's it You've got to have the the The general idea of the thing And then you just go and you start doing and then you adjust off of When you first play it and you figure out what units you like what units you don't like when you first paint a model or two You figure out what paint about your paint scheme works. What doesn't what about your basing scheme works? What doesn't and then you change from there? Yeah, it's so funny like I got um I got uh What was it uh almost halfway through My zombies before I got the concept of like how they fit into the picture fully like the whole sanitarium Like worker thing. Yeah, I'm like deciding to put them all in white clothes bold choice for zombies, right? But but that's but like it took me to that point to really like solidify No, wait, I'm gonna do this and then it made my paint scheme easier as weird as that sounds Um, and it like it solved a bunch of issues for me. Yep. Um, yeah, by the way, I just want to uh Uh, I missed a news item that I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention it. Okay. Sure Um Until the eighth which is in four days. You can still get the fleshy report king on on throne Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah And so for those that do want an abhorrent ghoul king on throne you have four days to do it So and once that's gone, it's going to be gone So um, that should have been in our news item and I forgot. So no you're you're good uh, and uh, I agree Where where is it out here? I lost my comment. Uh, there you go. Um quirrell who says plants never survive when the first paint encounters the miniature Yes, exactly. You know, you get and that's just it so you can have all the the plans you want in the world They're not gonna actually generally work out You're gonna need to change stuff as you get into Painting it playing it new books come out someone and so forth so that's why I say it's about having a general concept more than it is about You know, everything will be this exact color my gems will be purple and my armor will be Teal and my hair will all be pink I mean, that's just every army I paint so it gets really easy, but You know, there you go Okay So tom I I brought in an old slide here. It's still some of the old pictures on it But uh, it's still pretty accurate, but I wanted to bring this back in for people since uh Since it is, you know, cogent to this discussion Which is the upper left people asked about this in the last show or two shows ago or something upper left easy to play low cost Bottom right harder to play high cost Yep, okay So this is the general sweep of it as sort of a you know, easy medium If you're looking at armies, right? Yeah And you want to know the financial commitments and the play style commitments as they stood with current costs Now some of these bunches are going to get updated so that's not going to apply And when things get updated oftentimes sometimes the price will go up Sometimes it won't depending on what the box sets in the vanguard box Yeah, like since the last time we did this, I mean, I think suns is still pretty much in the same place again, it falls all the way to the left if uh You know, if you if you do alternatively source your your mega gargant models and don't pay 200 dollars per model um You know, I think ogres came out about in the same place. It might have actually moved like A little bit this this sort of direction up and easier in the new book. Uh So something like that, but you know for the most part, this gives you a good map Of sort of the slaves the darkness move firmly up into the lab You think so? I think so Okay So maybe up here kind of yeah, yeah I'm not sure it moved up too far to left still pretty no no no like I think it's pretty dead center Where before it was low middle Okay Okay And you know, it'll be interesting to see what happens with like with cities with seraphon with gloomspite A lot of these older books and some of the newer ones are still really really hard to play And some of them like lumeneth and slanesh Are also Really expensive too Um, so, you know, you have to I think looking at this anytime you get a summoning army Like it's just so expensive because like Realistically if you want to be able to play it efficiently, you need to have at least one in the pocket your main like four to five summits Yes Yes, dan there are two orc warplanes books on here tom Why are there two orc warplanes books on here? One represents iron jaws the other represents the other Yes Yes the other the other the other instance of that book represents cool boys or I suppose honestly um The uh bone splitters would be up into the left some probably in the middle of the two, but no Do you know any bodies you have to buy how many boxes of models? Yeah, but they're not that expensive because they're still old and you can give a No, but they have the price they went to 20 models for box and they opted to like 60 bucks or something crazy Okay either way, uh I mean if you're doing big stabbings and if you're doing big And if you're doing big stabbings you're having to make it from those boxes and only from those boxes. Yes Uh So at any rate, yes, it's the fact that one book is actually three armies hiding in a single place um So there you go But I think that you know if you're Someone new and you're thinking about you want a new simple play experience I still stand behind this sort of group up there of iron jaws flesh eaters nergal sons ogres knight haunt I think those are all the easiest experience to play with now there's a There's a cost differential between those Yep, but I think those those sit in the all in that place for me Yeah, I mean my recommendation if I were to pick top three It uh, we're gonna are gonna be iron jaws flesh eaters and knight haunt Like just because each of those for their own reasons Flesh or your cards you basically get the entire army and a getting started box and so you just rebuy that box You know on repeat and that'll cover all your needs both for summoning and for main models. Um Iron jaws, there's just the range isn't big and it's an elite uh force And then knight haunt because in second edition everything that was you know, knight haunt came with everything for free Um between that and the recent army box you can get most of that stuff for the cheap Sure I mean I'll tell you my number one hope for a new corn book that's that's coming in the spring or whatever most likely Again, we don't know that for sure yet, but the silhouette of the model They spoiled sure looked like corn and we know we're getting both cast books and blah, blah, blah, blah Yep. Yeah, but yeah And so my hope for That new corn book when it comes is that this guy Moves way up here Yep, okay Right now that army is way too complicated for for what corn should be Corn should be up with it with its with its buddies up in iron jaws and sons and ogres That's where it should be it should be hanging out in that club Yeah, it should be just a big punch up It should be super cheap because it was first edition. It was all the free models Yeah, but it is still summoning and so again summoning. That's one of the challenges It's gonna be a little more cost certainly, but that being said, I hope it just moves up So much easier To play I would love to see gits honestly do the same thing Um, I think gits should have a an easier curve as well because I think a lot of people really like goblins From the cost though, the problem is is that you're almost always going to be hordes And that's one of the challenges that you're just always going to be high on bodies Um, well, I mean again gets us have to be gits has trolls or squigs and those aren't necessarily High on bodies, but sure And as a as an aside, I know that you're locked in on botan, but um I really really really think that you would super vibe gets if you start for painted I know I know that you said otherwise, but I just vince knowing you and your personality And the play style and what's president gets I really think it would be a home run for you And and you can lean into the comedy and the humor Of of the army in your building just saying well, we'll have to see what the new book brings That we know we're getting um dances says new player here and I swapped from serif on a night haunt and i'm loving it Well, there you go. Yeah, that's that's exactly it. It's just a much more New player friendly book both in painting the models and getting it on the table and actually playing the force Like serif on is an utter nightmare When it comes to that sort of thing, so Um, I I just want to see gits be more of a friendly It doesn't need to move up into like the easiest territory, but I hope it moves up into the middle of the pack Right, is it should be a fun army? Yes Yep, it should be very new player friendly They are funny goblins people look at at this game and go. Oh, those guys look cool. They're funny goblins Are they are they cool? And you have to be like no actually They're really really hard to play and they have a bad book And it's like oh, yeah, and they're and funny means they get punched in the face a lot and they lose. Yeah Yeah Or before you could do crag knows for uh 30 arming and sure how that goes sure Okay, but I wanted to resurrect this because because I thought it would be useful as a touch point here for people um Okay I want to point out that both of the armies that we are looking at are in the lower right quarter Are yours in the middle basically, but I'm in the lower right You are yes Zinge is a complicated army again. That's okay. Like it doesn't necessarily Matter as much, right? Um, if you're if you want the complexity if you don't mind the complexity if you enjoy it like you did Yeah, right then go for it. There's nothing wrong with it. It's not like having a complex book is innately bad Right. Yeah, it's just a question of are you the type of player Who is going to draw? psychological utility from A complicated rule set or not. Is it going to be a headwind for you or not? right So there you go um The answer sadly killer creek is because the the Dominion box alone is not near enough to make you a whole army. You got to buy a lot of other actually pretty expensive kits Uh, unfortunately for that army Okay, let's go to the next one Expanding the force. So you got your concept right and It's time to actually start painting and expanding out your force. This is up to 2k and beyond All right yep So let's ask a couple questions. Tom when you paint an army How much do you expand because you could start with like a path to glory or something or an escalation league playing 500 points Right, and that's fine. That could be your starting force. Lots of people do that I mean, I just where do you go to? Yeah, that's a great question. I designed for an event Okay, and so if I'm starting an army most of the time my year starts out with Holy havoc is what I'm designing for when I'm starting a new thing So normally it's the fall that I'm starting new armies like like really getting in and committing I'll all begin design process in the spring late winter spring These normally like the first part of my year is finishing a project Which is why I said that like I have to do my commissions and stuff like that And then I'll get to the new new army concept and acquisitions And but but what I'm designing for then it is for like the teams event or whatever in the fall Right and I'll aim at a thousand points for that And then if I really have fallen in love with the thing I'll then expand it to a full 2000 points Okay, and aiming for another event with it Um, and then if I still am in love with it I will often then continue to just tack on an additional 500 to a thousand points as I like at like I as I tinker with list and the list change Um, I and you know, I you know Yeah I think that's a really good way to look at it. So the way you set it up is gates Yes, right? Of course. Yep. And that's why I think something like an escalation league Is a really good idea and so you know many acted a video on this recently because he's doing an escalation league right now with um with Evan and some other people around there and I think it's a great idea and a great way to get into a force It's we mentioned doing one back in the day when in 2016 or whatever, right? Right You set your initial goal at 500 points or 750 points or a thousand points or something like that, right? And that's what you paint out And you see how you like it you see what you enjoy And in my mind if you get to a thousand points and you're like, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore Okay, stop. You're good. You don't need to go any farther. Like that's functional You know, I think aos is fine at a thousand points. You can play in a team's game You can get a friend over and say hey bring a thousand points something I'm gonna have a thousand points of this thing. I painted We'll play a team's game against somebody else, right? So two on two Yeah, right doubles as it were as we just hear in the States um And I think that's Okay, I think that's great That can be a an army. You can call that an army. It's all right There's nothing mythical magical or required about that 2000 point number It's an easy gate to to to play to plant a flag on since it's sort of the standard size of match play But I don't think it's required That's the number one. I wanted to get out of the way I think you got a good thousand point force that you like and you had fun painting Congratulations, you've got an army Yep, yep Right. Yeah, yeah And then and and like For me part of it is like playing with my kids So that's a big piece of this And that allows me to play with my kids, right? And it feels like well, I don't often do 2000 point games with them Sometimes we do um life with my son. I will but with if it's just if it's not just my son But like my daughter or whoever else I don't always uh, yeah, I don't always do full Yeah Full-size games. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, full-size game And then you know germ isn't wrong like doing that pretesting where you just play on tts or something Or with proxies on the on the tabletop, you know add a 2k force is also a good test But I think if you're having fun, then you push to the 2k you keep going Yeah, right because that will get you to sort of the standard match play number Yeah Once you're at that point, you're going to have another gate another milestone another check-in You say you're still enjoying this or there's still units you really want to paint and add to the army And I think that's a big thing Some of these armies are really large Right Yeah, and You know for me, uh, he had like uh, so like sure I you know, I just keep adding stuff to my To my slaves to darkness army over time To my slanesh army over time, you know those things just to my scaven army over time those those armies just absorb things in them because they release new kits or I decide I want to to paint another unit and I enjoy painting that stuff. I just think it's fun I don't feel any pressure with it. I'm not racing toward a goal anymore, right It's just literally this seems like a fun thing to do. That's how I have Seven claw lords or whatever painting. Yeah I'm I can't use seven claw lords ever But I liked all the models and wanted to paint them. So I did Yeah, and I think once you get to that That 2k line you can start giving yourself the freedom To paint the pet units or the models you just think look fun look cool And you won't really You won't notice it being a task. It's not it's not a trial anymore. You're not trying to get to something Right, you're doing it purely because you enjoy the force. So that's the gate you pass You're still having fun. If you like it Then just paint some additional stuff you like, especially if it's a big force if you're playing serif on scaven cities Whatever, you know These forces that just are endless with their unit selection slaves to darkness right You're gonna have the potential at least for years With that army to keep painting models out of it if you like if you want Yeah right Whereas some of them, you know with iron jaws. I have my I have like 2,500 points of iron jaws or something like that probably And I just stopped because I was like, I don't know what else I would ever need. I have everything I want Right like I can run the army in any configuration. I would enjoy playing Done and Uh, I like what legionnaires said the 2000 point line lets a new model become an entertainment project. Yes Use it to experiment to push yourself to entertain yourself to unwind to relax like that's painting scaven heroes to me Yeah They're like, oh, I need to relax I'm I just spent a long time on a competition piece or display model I just want to paint something simple and fun Boom, it's scaven character time, baby. Find some scaven character paint them up Feel great. That's that's what that is Uh, because they're just to me They're the sorbet of model painting. They just cleanse the palette. They're very fun and I enjoy them Yeah, I could see that Okay Uh, el bico said, hey, I have my fantasy dwarfs. I'm playing How do they work in a os because I never played a os but I'd like to give it a go Using my dwarf square base fantasy goodness. Sure. So the dwarves What's what's left of the dispossessed as they're called in this and there's still most of that force is retained um Is part of cities Excuse me as part of cities of sigmar. So it's a combined force representing kind of the civilization The bastions of civilization the dwarves and the elves and the humans all work together now to survive against everything else in the world that wants to kill them and You can run a whole city's army just of dwarves. That's very easy and completely doable um, so Yeah, like hammers and long beards and uh, your rune lord and your The main guy, what's that? What's their that's their warrior hero called? I don't remember his name, but sure that The warden king. There you go. The warden king. Thank you And and so on right like gyro copters and gyro bombers and all those sorts of things Um, so yeah, that's how you would do it and they all work cities is meant to work in power pairs Where like the hero buffs the the troops of of their particular kind. So it's pretty good um Doe screen says I always feel the conflict between painting my army per my specific way I made it at first for consistency and exploring new techniques and colors after the 2k Very good very good point. Okay Tom You are a weirdo obsessed with ultra consistency So for you you keep going right when you add to the force you try to match everything Exactly to how it is right even if it's a paint color that I don't or a line that I don't use anymore I will go and pick new up of that so that it matches the old Sure, like so that when vince vendrella picks up my my model to paint he can't he can't tell if I painted this Uh, early or late outside of the actual painting technique that there's no actual development of in the paints themselves Yeah, I use the same style across the entire force okay So you can do that if you want if you want to be a lame person like tom Or you can be awesome Uh, and if you want to be awesome Then yeah, once you get over 2k that should free you to make new subgroups within the army Like when I paint additional things over the top, I will often just create a secondary color scheme I'll still align elements So like okay, the cloaks are the same or the some details are the same and the basing's the same whatever right? But they have a completely different Armor color or something like that because they represent a different sub force within the wider army because in the real world and You know history and armies and stuff not everybody dressed exactly the same Uh, it turns out if you go look at like A modern military sure in their dress colors oftentimes each individual force might have similar looking dress colors But in their actual military fatigues There are like People wear different clothes for different purposes turns out That you know different troops with different specializations and different purposes will sometimes dress differently I know this is shocking Okay But it's perfectly fine And you can do it with your army too That's fine And you can be awesome. So don't ever feel bad about it like my point is if it's something that's certainly that bothers you because because you're like Tom Fine You can just paint everybody to be little clones of each other and that's okay begun the clone wars have But even in the freaking clone wars They still gave the little troopers little clone troopers different color stripes and shoulder pads and stuff like that So i'm just saying And those were literally clones just saying okay To be fair, I do Do my I do variations with the units and sub factions and stuff like that But I do it within my color scheme and so that it always looks like appropriate even if one set is in Uh blue and the other is in black or whatever. They're all using the same range of colors Um, so I do do that Which I think is fine. You can like move a secondary color up to primary color primary primary color down to secondary. Sure. Exactly. Yeah, sure Yeah, um Like you Like you can have different Types of forces in your army somebody asked if so if you if you ran s2d would all your warriors and knights be the same color Or I don't know if this is for tom or I but I'll answer for me. No, they are absolutely not I have many different colors of cast warriors representing like different god alignments and or Different types of forces within there Uh different purposes But you could I mean like there's nothing that says you can't paint them all You know just one color and they still align to any god you want. It's fine You can go either direction But just never feel bad about wanting to experiment or grow or change things As you your force. Okay. Now. We haven't talked about the middle point on my slide yet here tom Okay, I want to talk about the medicadence and why you're playing the army. Okay that Are you playing the army? Because you vibe with it. You love it and it's cool and you have a passion for it Or are you playing the army because it has a good book? Yes, okay Regarding like I as I said to me the book When I say good here, I don't mean Good like it crosses the threshold of acceptability, which is what my line is I mean good like it's a strong army in the current meta Yeah, okay Because the medicadence what I'm saying by that is like What's good and what's bad quote unquote, whatever the heck that means sure Right Is going to rotate to some degree within individual armies as the ghb's release So be that six months or fingers crossed a year. Hopefully in the future Right. Yep. Yep And it's going to change every three ish years when your new army book comes out Yep And I agree with aesthetics that like a bad book a truly bad book like current ko or current gets it's just a it's just an army killer Right, it creates a shelf army instantaneously But understand that your exact power like if you're playing something because it's a broken Bent thing that's just killing it in the meta right now Uh, you will not stay in that position for long in the current world Right. Um balance has only gotten faster and faster and faster Right, right So like I'm hoping that from now on we get good books Ie well written compelling books with a decent internal balance But understand that like if you're pill it playing it because it's bent things won't stay bent And you and you you might not finish the army by the time That is fixed and resolved certainly and so for me. I'm not trying to play bent things I'm trying to play competitive Sure And so like I like it's a difference between like a ko book And like a slaves book right sure like slaves is like a great very viable or knight hawn or whatever Those are very viable armies even if they're not like bent. Yep And so for me it has to meet like a minimum like you must be this competitive to play Sure Whereas I don't know if it's competitiveness really, but it's like you I agree with you I have the exact same Roller coaster ride threshold And you know dough screen said I'm not really motivated by books But I dropped off playing a new dropped off playing the new slanesh book as it felt so hollow Yeah Yeah Like that's the point Sure, you don't have to be a meta chaser to to pick up a terrible book and be like I don't want to play this anymore This is just bad and it feels bad to play it and and I I We haven't really seen any of those in 3.0 and frankly. I hope we don't ever again I think it's just a criminal crying shame When when somebody who loves an army then gets a real like of a book Right So I'm I'm hoping what we've seen over the last 18 months Is indicative of frankly the direction we're going now like we're on a good run And I want to see it continue But but I do think it matters because if your interest is Being competitive as you mentioned. Yep. Yep Then that will behoove Over time Painting more units Yeah, right. Yeah, because like you have to move with the meta. Yeah, sure So again, it's about understanding what motivates you in particular And then setting your expectations accordingly, right? If you want to have something that's competitive You're going to need to paint more than 2k Yeah Like that's it end of story Right. Yep Um, unless you're playing a very unusual army where it's like You know, there's only a few units in it. And so there's just not really much that could change then you might be okay Or like or or any of them could sort of proxy for any of the others Like sons of bam, that's interesting because if you convert your giants to some degree You can just make any giant any giant. They don't have to be the ones, you know Like this guy was my b smashy yesterday and now today. He's my crack and eater or whatever That is an interesting aspect to that army um Like I have a 3000 point not counting cragnos, but I have a 3000 point Sons of bam on army and I run it in different configurations all the time Yep You know because I've got four megas and two by three babies done done Right, that's it, baby It's everything I'll ever need to run that army everywhere Uh, and it's great. It's fantastic So, you know things like that also can become an option So, okay anything else we want to say Do you let's let's leave this with this final statement here? I I have a thing. This is when do you When do you stop? When can you call it done? And my answer is you don't have to Sure, sure I would agree with that. Um Yeah, like for me Uh, my night haunt like I'm still always just adding like I've never shelved that army fully. Yep, right? I've continued to add to it. Um, I'm slowly like I'm getting to units Like I'm getting to the two corner case units Right one being the blade geist where if you do that like that's the whole army, right? So it's like almost it's like committing to another army And then all the the useless units that nobody will actually ever play Like though that's what I've gotten to in my painting because I've done everything else up until this point Yeah, so which is a great place to be right because uh Like it means that I've almost like got most of it That said You have many times like just re-picked up an army that you've already done Sure, if you really enjoy it hundred percent Yeah, you can you can say okay. I'm gonna stop Painting this as the main thing I'm working on Because I reached my 2k or my 2,500 or or whatever I needed to get like I have a functional army It's where I want to be but you don't have to ever say I'm putting this down forever Yeah, right if you really enjoy it keep it as an option grab a unit here or there When you when you've got an open slot when you've got the when the itch comes a scratching Right, right and just add to it in a little piecemeal and that's fine So you don't ever have to call it done Okay, all right challenges Here we go. This is gonna be this is this is the fun part Uh Tom let's talk about challenges and what I mean by that is What do you do when you're not Wanting to paint the army anymore Okay Like you started it you got into it You thought it was going to be something you were into And then it just Dies like you're just like I do not like this army. I do not like the way it plays or or whatever Okay What do you do? I mean there's one of two ways like I So one of the commitment one of the vowels that I made one of the commitments that I made myself is that if I paint a model Uh, I won't will not sell it Okay now I've made exceptions to that Like I know like there are some I have sold painted models to buddies of stuff that like was part of my army that I was like, I'll never Um, I'll never go back to right The irony being I'm getting ready to start in Zinge and I sold them a like a full unit of pinks blues and brooms um, and so like oh, you know, uh There I go again, right? So maybe I shouldn't have sold that but I say all that to say that in general like I don't sell any model that I've painted But if I've built Stuff and I'm not going back to it like what I'll do is I'll keep what I've painted And then I'll sell off the rest that I'm not going to actually hold on to Like I knew that I'm not going to do anything with now or anytime in the future So for like a year or two ago, I sold off all of my excess nervel That wasn't my main stuff because I was like, I just don't see going back to nervel within the next year or two And at that point I'll buy new bundle boxes or whatever and restock any of the models that I don't have right now and so So I have kind of a two-point approach where like I hold on to what I have and I'll throw it in a case Or in a storage box or whatever But I'll keep it And then every then my excess that of of that army I'll often sell off That's how I blend about doing it. I know a lot of people have different philosophies for how they approach it Yeah, I think this is the toughest question you ask yourself as a manager planner because as hard as it is to choose an army And to pick something and to plan something and to get a concept and cross all those initial hurdles I think quitting an army is the much harder thing Okay, yep Like I think what most people do is just ghost their armies Sure, sure they tell themselves Yeah, I'm still working on it. Yeah, I'm gonna get back to it Okay, I'm I'll and then maybe they sit down. Maybe it's it's there. It's in some semi-finished state. Yeah, you know, you probably have some models in like uh In some points that isn't finished but is some amount of paint on it Right. Yeah and Uh And then they're like, okay I will get to it Eventually Right. Yep And my answer is Now you're sure you will I think One of the secrets to this to to to Hitting to losing steam Is to do the following Here's here's my here's my methodology Okay. Yep. You put it to the side You don't work on it. You pick up another project Yep Preferably a piece of terrain or a one-off miniature for one of your other armies Or just something you think is fun or a display mini or a competition mini or whatever whatever you happen to do Yeah, okay You give yourself two weeks Two weeks To work on that thing And you in that time Do not think About that army you put to the side. You feel no guilt Over putting it to site. It's not in your universe It's over there It doesn't count. You are on vacation from that army if you take a two week vacation from work You don't think about work. Hopefully Right or whatever. Yep. Treat it like that Okay, you're on vacation From that army you're gonna work on this other thing instead And only this other thing Or it could be a couple small projects by the by like I'm I'm only going to work on a bunch of terrain for the next two weeks Cool. Okay. That's that's great. That's a thing Even though it's a bunch of individual pieces of terrain All right Then you come back to it Right two weeks later you sit down and you finish something One model one unit Whatever you can stomach but force yourself to finish it after that two week break Yeah, okay And then you look at that and you ask yourself Did I enjoy that after taking two weeks off from not doing it? Did I enjoy it? Do I want to keep going? If it if it if all you needed was a break if you just needed to recharge your hobby batteries Right. Yep Then you're done. You're good to go Okay Yeah You're back into it now and that can happen sometimes But if you come back to it And it's no fun and you struggle to finish the one mini one unit One whatever you're still doing quit Just quit Quit the army sell everything you haven't painted Sell the painted stuff if you want like or give it to a friend or sell it to a friend or keep it In the play group, but like get rid of it quit People don't quit things enough. I think I think very successful people quit a lot Okay Yeah Uh And so I think you just quit it because let me tell you this if you Stopped for two weeks and you came back to it and you still didn't enjoy it It's not going to be any different in two months or two years like You figured out what it was like to come back to it. That's it. Yeah Yeah, so just stop working on it And to me If you're not yet at your 2k or your 1k or whatever you you mark for it Like if you're at 1k, I would keep the painted stuff and now I guess that now it's just a 1k force Yeah, and now you've got that army. You can play it with team stuff And and you're good to go Yeah, right If you're a 2k same thing, I would just stop I'd be like cool. I got this army done I'll never touch it again. Sell everything else you bought that was like part of your grand plan You know, so you could take the picture of yourself standing next to a stack of boxes as tall as you and share it on instagram or whatever right Sell all that crap off everything else and just keep the rest of it and Uh, and and be happy with it and be happy with your accomplishment Okay Yep Yeah, and Otherwise and just keep on that and then and then work on something else you're passionate about I think people torture themselves too much over this stuff Right, okay Now I see chris h said disagree a new model or book can reinvigorate an army for me Okay, can a new model chris really reinvigorate you like like let's let's trot that out. All right You're painting scaven You painted your first 20 clan rats and a claw lord and you hate it What new scaven model gets released? What new single scaven model gets released that makes you say i'm happy now Because of this one model or this one kit To go back and paint the other hundred clan rats and 10 sensor bears and 40 plague monks and A doom wheel and a warp lightning cannon and six storm fiends and a warlock engineer And an arch warlock and a bombardier and and and and What's the model that does that right Mm-hmm. I don't I don't see it and like Now if they release a whole new line Sure, that could reinvigorate you're interested in it because you could like Oh, I don't enjoy the models as they were but the new versions of the thing are awesome Okay, well then all your old stuff isn't doing you any favors anyways because you're gonna have to Get rid of that and now nobody wants it anymore You know or or at least less people want it. It's not that you can't ever sell stuff when new things come out It just becomes generally like less attractive right yeah, yeah and so Like if we're talking about a whole new line, who cares if yeah a whole new line could reinvigorate you right Um people are just naming scaven units that I didn't mention and yes, absolutely like 100 it just keeps going Yeah And I think with a new book. I'm not sure that a new book Uh Like maybe for some people that works Maybe for some people they're like they're willing if they get a new book and it's really good It will make them buckle down And and sit there and actually finish the thing I could see that for a new book Because it does change all the rules of the underlying stuff right I think if you if you know, you're that type of person where it's like, you know what actually I just I just if a new set of rules comes and they're awesome I will go back to this and I will force myself To sit down and for the glory of this new book I will paint Then I think that's okay then then keep everything set to the side pack it up Give yourself permission to come back to it when a new book comes out Right But I don't know about an individual model I really don't I I could see the book if and only if you're that type of person So I could see that right Have you ever what have you ever quit a project in the middle? An army project in the middle. Have you ever started an army and then just been like nah? Uh, yeah, uh my spiders Okay, what happened why? Uh So, um, it was the end of 8th moving into AOS And I had a rock rock painted. I had uh 10 spiders like all converted painted I had another like 40 more ready to paint. I had 120 goblin like Scuttling so I had all the models right and all the bits and everything for conversions and all the stuff sure and I just looked at it and it was just a bad army Like when a full book came out for gloom spite invention Right, like I was ready to just go in Sure But the keyword bingo even though the aesthetically like I was going to have a unifying army The keyword bingo like the type of force I wanted to build I just couldn't build With what I wanted to do and so like it just It meant that either I like I just had to commit to losing You know, I was going to pour countless hours into converting and painting, but I was just going to lose all the time Because it didn't meet my minimum bar of so like the cool factor I jived with it. All those things were it, right? Sure, but it was just a bad army. Yeah And it was badly costed and all that stuff and so at that point like I just basically walked away And I boxed it up and I haven't looked at it in six years Like feet for a functionally like I I I have a thousand points painted. So I've played about a thousand points and like fun home games and stuff like that but um Everything else I has literally just been boxed up a little bit Sure Yeah, no, it makes sense um And I think that and there's not really a secondary market to sell it sure Um, Alan K said what's a reasonable rule of thumb for backlogs I'll tell you how I think about my backlog. My backlog at any given point in time is whatever Whatever unit I'm working on and that's it. That's my backlog Um, the way I've learned that I have to set myself up is To put the kits away. I get out one kit. That's what I'm working on. That's my backlog, right? And that's it there's the rest of the army isn't in my Sort of view, right? I don't want it to feel like the sort of damocles hanging over my head It doesn't matter if you have a whole army or not. You're not aiming I think I think treating it like you have to take the whole journey like you have to get to the top of the mountain And that's the only thing that matters is a challenge psychologically I think that if you treat it like all I have to do is get to the end of this box and I have accomplished something I've done something I win Right, and then when you're done get out the next box. That's your next hurdle, right? You don't you don't have to get to the top of the mountain You just need to get to the next base camp Yeah, right um And I think that's the way to go now chris h. I do completely agree with your strategy here Which is he says he paints the least quote-unquote interesting or sort of the most numerous or whatever that you know Paint the stuff you think is going to be the most arduous. However, I don't mean that in any negative way or or connotation, right? First, yes, thousand percent. That's a good tactic I will usually do some of that and then reward myself with a character or something And or something I have to find fun and then more of the quote-unquote boring stuff and then reward myself with a fun model And so on and so forth, right Exactly scott moss said the backlog is what's on the table that cupboard is just the place where you restock the backlog Exactly. I really highly encourage everybody to think of it like that hundred percent Because then it removes the pressure the weight all you're working on is this thing That's it. What you paint next could be another unit for the army could be something else right yep and Because stuff is just going to be there and and it if you the trick here is opportunity cost Right if every time you sit down to start something new you feel like you're picking a But you're not picking b through zzz Yeah, yeah, right then the opportunity cost feels massive Yeah, okay, whereas if you're just picking b because it's the next thing to do and it's what you're working on No opportunity cost goes away Right oftentimes when I'm working on an army. I will literally buy Just like one or two kits at a time to completely avoid that That's insanity Not everybody like like sometimes you just end up getting the whole army and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with it I'm saying like the way to do that is You know the way to do that is to get them out of sight out of sight out of mind, right? So you're only working on this one thing absolutely um Cancelled logic says the stuff in the closet is just potential options serenity comes from closing tickets agreed. Yeah, absolutely right right Jeff grunts go. What do you do when your army is hated by your friends? Like he's playing serif on makes it tough to keep painting. Yeah, this is tough um This is a really great question jeff Uh, I will tell you my answer is you try to build different armies that your friends will find Fun to play with out of that force like there is a That book is really really annoying right now, but there's probably a not Horrible force for them to play against In that in your in that book somewhere, right? Like we're going to lean into like sorus and do lords on karnosaur and stuff like that Certainly not as powerful and it's kind of a more fun. It plays exactly how you think it would play army And that might necessitate painting up some more units yet again, right having having all those options Um, but I think that can be a thing like when I when I take forces to play with Some of the people in my club who prefer more casual games I don't optimize the force intentionally I take like pet units and fun wacky stuff and and just try it out like I try different combinations of the units to see what Just have fun with them to play something I don't normally get to play right and so on and so forth And I think that's generally the advice I would give Um, yeah Yeah, okay Tom, what are we what are we leaving everybody with what's what's our closing thoughts on this this journey if people go on this year? Don't fear new projects Yep, good advice. I like it Why? Because you can always get out Yep Right like, um, there is a booming secondary market You know if a project suddenly does not grab you or the meta shifts underneath you or whatever just move it Yep I think or if you're not financially crunched just stick it in a box in a shelf in the back shelf And you can come to it some other day Yep Absolutely Um, oh by the way, Doug Beard here says, what do you do when you get stuck in deciding what color to paint the army? Uh, so I have a whole video on this on choosing a color scheme Doug So I would recommend you go check that out. I have lots of what I hope are useful tips in there um, but the the answer is you follow the process of um of of Uh beg steel test Okay, so beg is just like You ask other people around you for ideas your friends and stuff like that for what they think would be cool Steel is you look at other People who've painted the army and find inspiration There's no original ideas in miniature painting none zero zero original ideas in in army painting These things are sold too much in mass and painted too much in mass Yeah, and then three Right is you test you grab a model you paint it you paint over it again And you paint over it again and you paint over it again and you paint over it again Until you get to somewhere you want and you don't try to be clean with it or do a good paint job You just You just get some paint on there and see if the colors are hitting and you hold it a little bit away from your face And you squint at it and you say does that look roughly right? That's that's the advice in short Um Yeah, so I agree to him don't feel committed. I mean you're not this isn't a lifetime commitment. You're not having a kid Right, you're purchasing some plastic that you can resell Right, right It's it's it's not the same So you can you can try it See if you like it, but you can do those right necessarily you can do those tests Pick up one model off ebay paint it. Do you like it proxy the army outer play it on tts. Do you enjoy it? Right Look at the rules on wahapiti or something and if you know if you don't want to buy the book even first like there There's options out there, right um and And so I think that's that's really really good advice um the the sort of last thing I would say on this is You know just because you don't vibe with the Stock army like the story I told about ko earlier Does it mean that that army doesn't have some angle some vibe some conversion some project Some way that it couldn't be compelling with you to you So if you if you're almost there if you like read the book if you like some of the models But not the others, you know, whatever anything like that. Yeah Think about what are the conversions? What are the options? What are the changes? What are the other models the proxies the 3d prints that I could use that would that would That would make me Truly love this army and get into it if you're if you're almost there, but that's the hurdle that can be crossed Right. Yeah, and so look around and find those other ways You know you we did that with iron jaws as I wasn't interested in originally and then you gave me an idea that got me hooked on it Now it's been one of my favorite armies for years right So sometimes just about unlocking that last Step and finding the concept that motivates you that gets you going Um, and that that came from just you and I sitting around talking about warhammer Just you know talk to your friends. It was I was like this is well part of it It was like I have this vision. Hey this thing was part of this other thing. What if you did this? Right, and you're like, oh wait go on You know, so sometimes that'll grab you Yep Yep Okay, so there we go folks. That's new year new army question mark. Um, if there's questions you have that we didn't answer uh Hey, drop them down in the comments below since you stuck it out till the end Don't forget to hit like but most importantly We have a big reveal For those of you who stuck out to the end That's right. I didn't mention it at all because I wanted to see who Who would stay around for the whole show? to learn Okay Who was the winner In the 2022 showdown of best co-host As voted on by you through the purchasing of either team tom or team tyler t shirts Tom, who do you think won? Do you think you won or do you think tyler won? I think tyler probably won. Okay. Okay. All right. He's a more. He's a more gentle soul than myself I'm a little bit more polemic I see you're at acquired taste You're the coffee of co-hosts Indeed indeed Okay, so this is yes. This is a marvel post credit scene here The grand reveal The winner of the 2022 Showdown team tom versus team tyler Is tom tom you won Wow, you were the winner Tom shirts sold than team tyler. I feel so loved. Thank you everybody. There you go. The the you you buy tyler shirts So there we go tom was the big winner Nerglings are cuter the answer Nerglings are cuter. That's the only reason why uh, I I won This is my little fat chubby dude. Like how can you not love that guy? Absolutely I shout out to eric to stone monk who did all the character art and all the stuff we've used for our merchandise I want to see if I can get him to do some more this year. We'll see if we can pull him out of retirement yet again To do a few more pieces because I want I want to do some new merch in the show or for the show this year So we'll see what what what comes up But there you go. Congratulations. Tom. Thank you all for sticking to the end hit a like For team tom winning They the real the show down here But thank you all so much for watching. Don't forget to subscribe if you haven't already if you want to support the show You're hitting like and subscribing and doing all those free things is awesome and helps other people find the show There's also a patreon down below. You can join To where I focused on hobby review and feedback and taking your next step on your hobby journey go tom In other news, there may be a clearance sale on tom church on ebay in the coming weeks. Sure There's also a merch store. Obviously that link is down below Uh, don't forget the new paint line From pro acryl my my signature series and ninjans signature series of our six paints that we Came up with and worked with jason at monument hobbies to do comes out Uh next week basically and it'll be in your local stores to carry pro acryl soon So you'll be able to pick them up there as well as conventions and things like that But as always Thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it It's uh, it's always great. Happy new year everybody. I wish everyone a year of hobby goodness And as always