 Selamat siang. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh, salam sejahtera bagi kita. Good afternoon, peace be upon us. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the science and policy dialogue on the first series. This dialogue is part of the global comparative study on Red Plus or what we usually say GCS Red Plus. I am Sandhya Novyansa, research consultant in climate change, energy and low carbon development team, or CCE team from C4 iCRAF that will lead this event for the next two hours. The science and policy dialogue series was developed to support participative research in order to have maximum utilization of research outcome by more parties and to harmonize research with domestic context and specific relevant issue. This dialogue is going to start off with presentation sessions and followed by plenary discussion that will require your active participation. Please allow me to welcome all of the speakers who are here with us. Dr. Pam Tutui, team leader of climate change, energy and low carbon development or what we call CCE from C4 and iCRAF. Professor Daniel Muriarso, principal scientist from C4 iCRAF and let me see Dr. Sonny Mumbunan Research from the Research Center for Climate Change University of Indonesia, Bimo Duisa Trio Senior Research Officer from C4 iCRAF and I also see Dr. Nur Higawati Rahayu, STMSC or who we usually call Yuka Director of Forestry and Water Resources Conservation from National Development Planning Agency and I would like also to extend the highest appreciation to all of the participants who are willing to join us today in this discussion and becomes part of the Project Advisory Group or PAG and I would like to inform you that in this event we provide English Indonesian interpretation features and you can access it on the bottom right of your screen and as we all know this event is being recorded so please mute your microphone during the presentation session to ensure the smooth running of the presentation session to avoid any voice nuisance and I would like to kindly ask you to adjust your display name with the following format name and institution or organization Without further ado, let us hear about the GCSRAT Plus from the presentation of Dr. Pam Tutui, Team Leader of Climate Change, Energy and Low Carbon Development from C4 iCRAF. Dr. Tutui, the floor is yours. Thank you very much, Senti. First of all let me heartily welcome you all to our workshop we highly appreciate your time and participation and having you all here in this workshop is indeed our great privilege. C4 has more than 20 years of present in Indonesia and our organization is committed to supporting the government of Indonesia and strengthening collaborative research with Indonesian organizations and partners in Indonesia and improve well-being of local community and indigenous people Indonesia has always been our great home and although C4 mandated as global Indonesia has always been our priority and in this important event let me just start by saying and also express our sincere thanks to government of Indonesia, many government agency as well as international partner who are working in Indonesia and for our C4 iCRAF research work in the last two decades and you might already know we are now in a critical time at COP26, many countries including Indonesia have put forward a strong commitment to protecting standing forest enhancing biodiversity conservation and protecting rise of local communities and indigenous people to avoid catastrophic climate change society and its own need to both end and pursue low emission development through forest conservation, agroforestry, sustainable land management and restoration of ecosystem signature-based solution could provide up to 37% of the cost effective emission mitigation needed by 2030 to meet the goals of keeping clover warming below 1.5 to 2 degree for the last decades the governments of Indonesia have put forward a strong commitment and dedicated planning towards climate change adaptation and mitigation as well as achieving sustainable development goal in the next two decades, our event today as well as many C4 ongoing and future project are designed to support the countries in Indonesia stakeholder to achieve their transformational chain our event today is a pathway moving from COP26 to G20 next year and how research can support aligning forest finance and development planning in Indonesia. As said, he has said with this forum for all of the stakeholders to discuss and reflect on the national priority and strategy towards NDC and transforming forestry and other land use sector into a carbon next thing by 2030 for the opportunity and challenges for Indonesia to implementing the country national target and commitment on review emission, forestation and degradation as the leading countries in the global climate change arena who believe that Indonesia can offer great lesson learn for the global communities as well as other neighboring countries on how the country can successfully carry out policies is also designed to support the foster of knowledge exchange Indonesia stakeholder as well as the global communities we also hope that with this dialogue we will have a better understanding on how research in general as well as C4 research project can align our research with the national need and provide useful information for the policies maker and practitioner who are developing and implementing climate change policies in Indonesia. Throughout our work on review emission from the forestation and degradation enhancing the science on forest and climate change developing different policy option for forest landscape restoration and sustainable management of wetland and mangrove bioenergy and ecosystem by adaptation our C4 climate change team hope that we can continue to work with the policies maker practitioners and also local communities in Indonesia as well as many other countries analysis and tune needed to design climate change policies and also forestry policies to achieve sustainable development goal our global comparative studies on RECPLAST has been carried out since 2009 any one of many projects that try to work that goal to support the national stakeholder in Indonesia RECPLAST prior RECPLAST project from 2021 to 2023 to address knowledge gap including how to strengthen transparent and accountable MRV system how we can address drivers of forestation and degradation at the same time provide a pathway for sustainable economic growth we also would like to carry out the research to understand how countries and projects can design ecosystem and set gas system and how different policies scenario to carry out appropriate planning for different sector and across sector in the next few year we also hope that with our research in the next two years and a half we will be able to provide reliable and scientific information and regular impact of such intervention in how successful they are in term of achieving this environmental and social objective and to provide a last learn not just only for Indonesian stakeholder group but also global communities on what policies and project intervention work best where and for whom and how we can all increasing its effectiveness our project has a strong desire to make sure that our research activities are based on country need and in serving the interests of the national stakeholder and for the reason the policy dialogue today is extremely important for us because your insightful knowledge, advice and contribution we definitely have our project to lie better to the national need and also seeking a possibility for us to strengthening our collaboration to provide a collective action to support the government of Indonesia I wish to express our special thanks to all of the expert and presenter for accepting our invitation to share their experience today I would like to also express our special thanks to all of you who spend time with us and all of the insightful knowledge that you're going to share with us during the workshop I would also like to express our special thanks to Pak Soni Mulbanun from the Research Centre of Climate Change at the University of Indonesia who is the key partner of our GCSEBRAD Plus in this phase, we really appreciate for his kind support as well as the University of Indonesia support and looking forward to our fruitful collaboration with the University of Indonesia as well as many other national partners who we would love to work with in this project we would like to also express our special thanks to Marat and also to Nawejam and the CIS in Indonesia who are the key insight will comment as a session over the project development phase and we're looking forward to have more interaction with all of you in the next two years and a half let me conclude by saying that I hope this workshop will bring you insights and useful knowledge to your work and also our work and we thank you for your contribution and we hope to learn from you all and hope that we can continue to collaborate with your own leeches event but also after this event I want to wish you a very fruitful discussion and wish you a good health Thank you Thank you very much, Tui for covering the decade of GCSEBRAD Plus research and outlining about what we'll do in the next two and a half years Selanjutnya, senang sekali kami sudah and for the next agenda we are very happy Mrs. Yuka and Mrs. Yuka from the National Development Planning Agency is going to explain us about the government strategy to achieve the national targets and also the pathway from COP26 to G20 and how research can conformulation of the national targets and policy, thank you Thanks everyone, hopefully you can hear me well Thank you for inviting me to this event and I am going to deliver a presentation about the government strategy to achieve the low carbon development targets and one of the focus here is that the global commitment that Indonesia has adopted nationally be it the strategies that we have in the medium term national development plan of 2020 till 2024 and also our national action plan that we have updated every year so this is my presentation and for the organizing committee if I only have a few more minutes so this Indonesia's vision by 2045 this is the long vision of Indonesia and how we can anticipate the national needs and FOLU is forestry and other land use as we know the other land use here is the land use for development for the human development for human settlement for agriculture activities and this is the land use that we've projected until 2045 and from the economic side we are also demanded to adjust our policy because we want to get out of the middle economy middle economic trap by 2036 so this becomes a big challenge for us and from the environmental side we know that there are some impacts that we have to expect and in 2020 until 2024 in the medium term development planning document we have indicators for emission reduction target that's one of the environmental aspect so we don't only focus on economic and social aspect but we also consider the environmental aspect so that's why we put the emission reduction target so in the national priority 6 we have low carbon development targets the improvement of the quality of the environment and also the improvement of disaster resilience so the gas house emission will be reduced gradually and it is our priority and it is our target as well and if we take a look at this percentage 36% of Indonesia's land are consisted of forest and as we see the land coverage in Indonesia most of the forest are not covered by forest and we also have to allocate some budget and some development effort in our forest not only in conservation forest but also protective forest and production forest as well and based on the economic aspect we also give space for Indonesia to improve its economic and get value from the economic sector, from the forest sector and we also have to rehabilitate critical forest lands that we have because we want to hemp deforestation rate in Indonesia Next slide and these are the challenges that Indonesia has encountered so far for the gas house emission Indonesia is one of the biggest of emitters in the world and we also have to put our commitment to the global community Indonesia is a developing country that's why Indonesia requires a lot more development but on the other hand Indonesia also has commitment that the future development considers environmental especially the adverse impact that development put on the environment so that's why we also put the emission reduction targets in our national strategies and if we look at the business as usual by exploiting without considering the impact on the environment, we will see the decrease in GDP and increasing of emission so there are two adverse impacts in our economy and in our environment to conclude, we can have more development and increase the economic sector well at the same time reduce the emission and as we all know Indonesia's deforestation rate actually we also have data on 2020 until now we know that the rate of deforestation has decreased we not only we have to increase our efforts in reducing the emission but we also have to decrease the deforestation rate if we don't do anything so it means a business as usual the agriculture sector and also the human settlement sector will push the rate of deforestation to become higher and this is the projection that we have and we want to make sure that the land coverage or our forest land decrease year by year and we would like to make sure that the agriculture lands in the forest can be maintained and as we see we have 65% of the forest lands that is used for agriculture but we also have to see the production forest is a third of Indonesia's land but it only contributes to a certain percent even less than the agriculture sector so we have to make sure how we want to rearrange our concept for land use in Indonesia how we can manage our land in Indonesia in a more efficiently more eco friendly and more sustainable so this is the modeling that we have as of now hopefully in the future we can have a better synergy between development production and also environment this is the trend of forest coverage so in the national level we cannot equalize all the numbers between each region but we will take a look deeper into regional numbers because we want to design and plan on programs that can be adjusted to the regional needs so this is the forest transition as you can see the red zone is the Java islands and we also can look at the percentage of forest lands in Papua and we want to maintain that percentage in Papua we require more development but we are trying to balance it we are trying to balance it as to not transition or not converting anymore forest lands in Papua and there are some mitigation efforts we have the transition to need and renewable energy and energy efficiency productivity and also the first one is data the data and study so that we can have a fact based and evidence based of policy formulation and for the formulation of policy we also would like to take a look how we can improve our budgeting and the financing and the budgeting mechanism has to be more transparent we have to inform it to all stakeholders and share burdens to other partners and we also have to be more transparent to all business actors and to all of the stakeholders in Indonesia in terms of the policy formulation so that we can together achieve the target and according to today's topic we require researchers in many areas and these researchers can answer our problems our challenges and can respond to our needs so we have to formulate science based, we have to formulate policy based science in several areas like natural science interdiscipline science and socio economical science and for example in managing the natural resources there is a human factor there so we also have to think about the research in human resources science research is going to be more important in the future sorry so sorry i lost my voice for a little bit excuse me so sorry it's also important for us to take a look at other sectors for example the land is going to be divided into agriculture we have to focus more on intensification rather than extensification and from the economic aspect we also have to know that in the forest it's been so long that the local community has utilized the forest lands for their place to live so we don't have to take a look at the policy but we also have to take a look at the fact in the field so all of the sectors and the institutions have to work together in order to formulate better policy that is driven by fact and evidence we can have a national mechanism formulating national policy but we also need to strengthen our implementing regulations regime from the provincial level to the local level and lastly the multi-parties cooperation and cross-sectoral coordination have to be strengthened so we can call it to preserve and conserve our nature and then we also do with the system dynamics approach and I think this scheme has to be adjusted a little bit due to the Covid-19 pandemic because Covid-19 pandemic is very serious in this scheme so we need to come up with new approach and we also have to formulate new mechanism and adding more items in our national action plan to recover from crisis and we also put this in our modeling and on one side we want to heal the nature but on the other side we also have Covid-19 pandemic recovery and also to achieve the targets on decreasing rate of deforestation and achieving the low carbon development targets and also to ensure that in the future we can have natural resources based development but it does not decrease the capacity of our nature to support our development and next slide is few exercise of the net zero emission scenario through a low carbon development so we have projections for 2045 2050 and 2060 and there are some scenarios that we can explore of course if you don't do anything of course this impossible for us to see the impact on the same year based on the development of the emission so if we do or conduct the development this year then the impact of emission will be resulted in a few years so we need to have a clear projections of this next slide and this is the intervention and key policies to achieve net zero emissions towards low carbon initiative for deforestation deforestation is conducted and aside from the fiscal policy or incentive mechanism for two thirds of the emission reduction initiative will be conducted mostly on the energy sector by decreasing towards a more energy approach so I think energy takes up the most portion of emission in here so the energy sector produces more emission compared to other sectors and this is the net zero emission scenario in the land use sectors so this is the charts and these are the data or the percentage for the carbon reserve number based on its sources and also the number of land needs for bioenergy plants there are some plants that are based on oil that can improve our achievement to target but we also but we need to see what kind of other efforts that we can for this land use sector and this is the conclusion it is projected that forestry and other land use will contribute almost and of the total target of emission reduction that Indonesia will achieve there are a lot of low hanging fruits in here but we also have to explore more options there are other things that I'd like to put in conclusion how research can contribute in the national development not only in the technical aspect but perhaps research can explore other aspects as well across the sectors so I think all of the sectors in Indonesia needs to harmonize its policies so that we can achieve the nationally determined target that we have and collaboration, synergy and cooperation needs to be strengthened so that the government can be stronger and the government of Indonesia can get support from the researcher so that the government of Indonesia can make a research based policy thank you so much everyone thank you Ibu Yuka for the very comprehensive presentation one thing that I would like to highlight from the presentation is the importance of collaboration between research center such as C4 with government entities such as ministry of forestry and environment and other agencies to achieve government target in follow sector next we are going to listen to a presentation from Prof. Yerus, the principal scientist and Mbimo Duisa Terio on the follow sector and also commitment from COP26 thank you Sandy am I audible? Yes we can hear you Bepak share with you all about what we are doing and what we know and also perhaps what we do not know in term of supporting the government to achieve the follow net thing in 2030 so this has been a huge program of this stage in 2030 and I would like to share with you what we know and certainly about the wealth of data we already have what I mean by we here is not only C4 but also partners and body of work in wetland especially to provide this information to support the government so from the work that we've been doing in the past 10 years we are very confident that we have the very information to share to support the inclusion of blue carbon in the national agenda what are these national agenda I will tell you later ranging from the large national agenda strategic agenda for the long term one RBCP 2040 or 2050 and also project based activities related to climate change mitigation especially to red as this project is going to talk about GCS red so mangrove has a very strategic role and if you look at this data about more than 150 publication publication articles informing us about the wealth of carbon in mangrove ecosystem ranging from the very degraded one restored and also the intact one both in the context of carbon stocks as well as the flux and the flux here is not only CO2 but also other non-CO2 cases so how can we use this information we've been discussing with the government how the possibility of using this information for the development of FRL and the second FRL and we've been communicating with the government this is the potential improvement of the previous FRL to include blue carbon or mangrove in there we have the guidelines and we've been learning how to use this guideline when I mentioned about the long term plan Ibu Yuka is familiar with this document and I'm glad to share with you that mangrove and low carbon development agenda go side by side hand in hand and mangrove is there and this is for 2040 so it's very encouraging to know that CO2 carbon is included in this long term one again if we are ready with the use of this information we can provide that the current reporting, project reference level etc it is also very encouraging to learn that the ecosystem coastal zone is in the NDC but it's not unfortunate but sooner or later we can adopt and include mangrove coastal blue carbon in the mitigation part of the NDC as well so there are a lot of opportunities so let's move to G20 so Indonesia is chairing or being the president G20 and it will be launched already been launched but the summit will take place in Bali and President Chokowi is very keen to invite his guide in Bali and what is this? this mangrove G20 for the seriousness or the seriousness of the government in protecting and rehabilitating mangrove it's been a national agenda to rehabilitate around 600,000 hectares of mangrove across the country so if Bali is going to be launched it is ranging from Papua, West Papua North Kalimantan, West Kalimantan etc so G20 and Bali can be the launching pad for mangrove rehabilitation so thank you very much for highlighting pressing issues, pressing national agenda selanjutnya Next, I would like to invite Mr. Bimo Duisatrio to deliver the presentation Bimo Flores is yours Thank you, Sandy Thank you, Bepak Daniel I would like to follow up on the presentation of Professor Daniel we have plenty of data scientific data from C4 and also our partners selama 10 menit ke depan for the next 10 minutes I will deliver on what C4 going to do for the phase 4 we have 5 work packages and I will explain the 4 main work packages first for the work package 1.1 on the archetype of tropical deforestation and degradation in general, this work package would identify the archetype of tropical deforestation and later on would provide information for diagnostic for another work package The definition of archetype here is the stylized context that describe the main drivers patterns and also processes that shape the socio-ecological system and we will also explore how the existing data enables different classification for this work package it will be led by Professor Arit Angelson, his or her students and also Dr. Pam Tutoy for work package 1.2 the data generation to support the enhanced transparency framework also you mentioned I would like to close the data gap and also methodological in a manner that is more accurate and we would like to emphasize on the carbon and we would like to support Indonesian government emission factors by paying better attention to emission from forest degradation and also forest fire driven by palm oil transportation outbase and also modeling for the out related to GCE emission and also improving in Southeast Asia and there are also several presentations in a scientific workshop and as scientists we will also produce several publications scientific publication some have been published and you can read that in this slide and we also prepare blog post on activities and also scientific publication that we produce for work package 2 led by several of our scientists and the team and Dino Fianca and here we aim to map on what context the policy intervention can work the objective is we want to see what kind of policy that works and how that works while also linking it to the global context in our package 2.2 we are going to map and also assess red plus financing and also benefit sharing mechanism in here you can see the tentative definition on the red plus financing mechanism and also benefit sharing mechanism and also benefit the activity we are going to build topology of red plus source of funding in Indonesia and also update apologies to create database on red plus financial model in Indonesia we will update the content next year on the work package 3.1 which is bringing out the politics understanding and enlarging the policy space this work package will be managed and led by Dr. Maria Brokas and Dr. Maria Molino jenjing dynamic on the national and international level we aim to understand the challenges and also opportunity the power dynamic that affect the changes and the analysis that we are going to do is going to relate to the global political economy of the first station and to understand the challenges and also opportunities related to power relations we will also do the analysis on governance of global forest carbon finance and also the change in dynamic of the red plus management related to the discourse and policy context and on the national context we will also look at the job creation law the updated NDC and LCCR carbon tax as stated in the regulation and the potential for carbon trading from forestry permit holders and as stated by Mr. Daniel we will also look at the my group as discussed in policy discussion as for the deliverables we have scientific papers in 4.3 and also tools we will develop along with our partner and also carbon market for work package 3.2 on safeguard and right-based approaches we will conduct analysis and also publication and planning practical steps to meet safeguard standards to promote social inclusion in a policy that is forest friendly on global level we will also link it to national and sub national level number one is review of voluntary safeguard standard and psychology of red plus safeguard well on national and sub national level we will review the laws associated with the safeguards and also research on the implementation of safeguards on national level and sub national level few in implementing safeguard and also challenges that they face while implementing them next this is one of the examples are quite small here but there are two things here that I would like to highlight the safeguard by the following standard and also encourages by national institution next the tending the context of the forest and forest degradation from supply info and other science policy platform last the work package 5 related to communication and engagement for this project to help in achieving the targets I would like to conclude my presentation for your kind attention and if you have any question feel free to ask the question thank you for the presentation that explains the work of in the past 2.5 years next I would like to give the floor to Dr. Sonny Mumbunan and after the presentation Dr. Sonny will lead the discussion session that discuss the topics we have listen to the presentations in detail floor is yours Dr. Sonny thank you for the opportunity to deliver everyone is in good health in the next 10 minutes I will deliver presentation on what we are going to do but first allow me to for background related to what we have heard from previous presenters and they see the national strategy and others as a background this is our most important policy documents and you can see that it is created on different timeline until 2030 2045 we have also long term strategy and not zero emission everyone who are familiar with this policy documents understand that this policies affect one another and we can see that the newest policy document build based on the insights from previous policy documents and in here we can see several examples of intervention on two things number one follow and agriculture and if we look at this table i, l, t, s and z, e for example deforestation we can see here from the beginning with the emphasis on primary forest and we also see carbon sequestration in all these documents and we can see several new areas as well and once again we still need to improve this and we need to also get the metrics for the agriculture sector we can see some issues here for example on food wash and waste we can see that in lts but not in the previous documents and also in at zero emission and we will see the examples of interventions we can have discussions with the participants on what we can implement next to provide you with another context as Ibu Yuka stated and Mr. Daniel stated there are several exercises that define NBC, LCDI LTS and other newer variants in net zero emissions and bubbenas or ministry of forestry and environment however it is on the context of two pollutions and I think the one that is related most to policy here is best case and also several scenarios of LCDI high scenario and LCDI plus the terms here the usage of terms also try to align with NBC targets on the plan to reduce the percentage of emission and we have LCDI plus as well that looks to be more ambitious for example facing out of coal and others but we have the best case and try to imagine for example if there are other different scenarios for example the emissions the emission keep on increasing and also the emission decrease let's look at other exercise there is also very relevant and this is included in long term strategy on low carbon and climate resilience the semantics is quite different but I think the idea is still similar we have transition scenario and also LCCP low carbon scenario that is compatible with our commitment for Paris Agreement target and due to time limitation let's focus on the most ambitious plan the LCCP that is expected to pick at 2030 following agriculture play a very important role and we look at the green graph here that is the thing that has been discussed completely so are the sizes already reflected in our policy and the scenarios are the outcome of exercises looking at some number of interventions and with the time we have right now to involve all the participants and we want to hear your input on the policies that I have briefly elaborated next for us to be to allow the session to be more interactive there are four things that we would like to discuss further number one we will try to prioritize policy exercises it is important but due to time limitation but if needed we can have more exercise on this topic and after that we are going to give participants the opportunity to provide brief comment please make it concise to ensure that all participants can provide comment next we are going to response and deliberation and also lastly prioritization on the policy exercise we are doing this approach as well when we were compiling the LCDI the approach quite similar to today and in order to do this exercise I think we can start the survey there are two questions for this survey can you please show the survey ya jadi kita punya beberapa yang kita rangkupkan dari yang tadi we have please name five intervention the policies are already included in NDC, LCDI LTS, and also net zero emission please choose five intervention that should be the priority please only use five for follow sector I think all the participants can just click on the screen yes participants you can just click the options on your screen yes I think we need to give time for the participants to read and also choose the options sorry ini kok sayang ga bisa submit I cannot submit the answers for my part Sunday I cannot submit my answer will assist you Ibu mungkin aksesnya perlu di muka untuk semua ya kelihatannya perhaps the organizing committee can make this poll accessible to others kita lihat aksesnya sudah open jadi semua peselepon kita sudah bisa menjawab bisa berpartisipasi silahkan jika masih ada ladies and gentlemen do let us know if you still cannot submit your answer ladies and gentlemen once again I would like to inform everyone to only choose five policies five policies I think all participants have answered this question okay then we can discuss the next question the first question was on is on follow and next we're going to see the next question a moment please ladies and gentlemen you can see the question on your screen according to you please choose five intervention that should be the priority ladies and gentlemen time reminder that you can only choose five policies or five interventions mas Haris sudah berapa kalau itu bisa kita lanjutkan how many respondents do we have so far if we have enough respondents then we can continue yes we currently have 26 respondents so I think we can continue thank you so much for responding this polling and now we're going to move on to the part where the participants can express your opinions about the intervention that you've chosen and also please provide necessary arguments why you choose that area due to the limited time we can give each of the participants one minute to explain so perhaps all of the 20 participants can have 20 minutes of this planned recession and then we can move on to the next agenda so who's going to start first please use the raise hand feature or we also ask anyone if you want to volunteer to person one to unmute your microphone Sandy, can you please display the last slide so that it can remind the participants about the context of our discussion yes so perhaps this can help you refresh your mind or to make it more specific so imagine if a researcher wants to compare what Indonesia is doing compared to other countries so what kind of policy intervention that has to be prioritized you have to think about the comparability and you also have to consider the specific relevant issue in Indonesia perhaps you might find some similarities in other countries but I'm sure that Indonesia have some specific issues that does not exist in other countries and from the area that you've chosen please provide the arguments and choose that area and perhaps we can consider the rationale behind your choice Sandy perhaps you want to lead the discussion of that any other participants who wants to express something my name is Elim from APP Mr. Sonny I think if we talk about FOLU I also attended COP26 and the agriculture forest land also implement the sustainable land management and this is part of the low carbon development initiative and the distinctive feature that I see in Brazil is that when we talk about sustainable forest management the management in the conservation and management and carbon sequestration can contribute to achieve the net follow and what we have to look further what is the ratio between the two in Indonesia 10% becomes the mandatory figures but forest management in every FMU I think it can be more than 10% and in every standard you say that we can reach up to zero or net but we have to look at the protocols that other countries put in place like the Brazilian companies or Chilean in the forest that they are managing but we have the value of 10% that becomes mandatory and we can also claim the contribution of the NDC achievement you have FMU and you also have the figures of mandatory 10% for palm oil the cycle is longer which is 25 years and this is similar to the carbon cycle so can we claim better carbon absorption by looking at the plantation cycle as well so everyone considers that it's balanced what you cultivate that's what you cut but the palm oil plants we only harvest the fruits so I'm not sure about the carbon research I think what you say I think your main point is that to differentiate and sustainable forest land management in the plantation land in the middle of the forest thank you so much from the ministry of forestry and environment one of the issue that I would like to highlight here is the sustainable forest management in the ministry we have developed a lot of projects of reforestation up to 12 to 7 hectares of forest land and this is one of the opportunity and at the same time challenge to mitigation efforts of climate change and this activity can achieve sustainable forest management and in real life the local community has preserved the surrounding forest in their areas but on the other hand of course the local community is also seen as threat because they utilize the forest land and they sometimes convert the forest land so I think it's two sides of a coin so my recommendation is that we need more research about the performance of sustainable forest management in order to measure the success of the current sustainable forest management effort that we have and we also have to evaluate the mechanism that we have do we need to improve the governance or implementation and this is the program that can involve the local community to participate in this sustainable forest management because they are the closest living mechanism in the forest lands not only because they live in the surrounding forest lands but they are also vulnerable if the governance or implementation of sustainable forest management is suboptimal they will suffer from the adverse impact of bad sustainable forest management I think that's my recommendation Thank you, Diyah for your recommendation so you are talking about the social forestry project that is related to the sustainable forest management you highlighted interactions with the local community and how we can utilize contribution in this project so there is information from Crystal Hargula about the rotation of palm plantation and other tree plantations and we are still waiting for the response from other participants so please provide the arguments on why you chose the area earlier You can certainly use Bahasa Indonesia or English because we have interpretation service provided in this meeting Maaf, pertama saya kehabisan battery so sorry, I'm running out of battery I'm so sorry so can you still hear me? Yes, I can hear you clearly and I heard the response from the ladies earlier about the palm oil and the lady from the ministry of forestry and environment expressed something about sustainable forest management but I think the most important thing is the term of FOLU forest and other land use deliberately does not include agriculture so in IPCC we know AFOLU now we are talking about FOLU because AFOLU is agriculture forest and other land use and if you talk about palm oil plantation then it is included in the agriculture sector so I don't think that it's included in the FOLU if I'm not mistaken if I'm not mistaken the lady from the ministry of forestry has said something about sustainable forest management so if I understand correctly it's about the forest that is managed by the local community so I think the project of RAT Plus on the national level does not recognize activities on subnational or jurisdictional activities so I think this is more about static land use so it is not specified it's not specified of other land use for example social forestry so I think perhaps in the future if FOLU wants to be made not sync as I presented before by 2030 the nitty-gritty details have to be accounted for as well Thank you Prof. Sakdeno for your additional remarks and it is quite relevant to what Miss Dia and Miss Ellen have said earlier with jurisdictions and aspect of nitty-gritty details of activity that can be sharpened in order to have a more accurate accounting so what we're doing right now with emission, LTS and LCDI even though that I have known several exercises that has accounted this for regions and islands but for this activity in a wide scale I think it is easier to be counted while Prof. Daniel has mentioned distinctive modeling that states that all interventions are not equal and the definitions process of all modeling are not equal as well so perhaps we can have the matrix that can show the distinctive features but the point that I can highlight here is that this exercise is required for the future this detailed exercise is required in the future especially to formulate the policy document after this dialogue for example and consider COVID-19 pandemic to be included in the scheme and the jurisdictional aspect highlighted by Prof. Daniel can also be included in the exercise scheme any other contribution from the participants what do we need to consider on formulating the policy especially in FOLU and agriculture several participants has also reminded us about agriculture and FOLU because agriculture is not included in forest and other land use sectors any other comments from other participants saya melihat Kristal mengacungkan saya melihat Kristal mengacungkan anda lebih dari terima kasih untuk menghubungan mikrofon anda anda masih menggunakan Kristal bisa mendengar saya? saya tanya tentang formulasi tentang mengubah fertilisasi sintetik dengan fertilisasi organik sejak ada beberapa pembentangan yang tidak bisa dipercaya untuk mengubah fertilisasi sintetik jadi anda harus mengubah dan bahkan balas menjadi negatif jika anda ingin mengubah misi gas gas itu tidak terlalu mengubah tapi mungkin akan mengubah untuk mengubah seperti 3 pembentangan jadi saya menyebabkan ada beberapa pembentangan yang telah dibuat di Indonesia karena ini perlu dilakukan terima kasih terima kasih Kristal pertanyaannya tentang fertilisasi sintetik kita tidak bisa menjawab tapi di dokumen LTS ada beberapa pembentangan tentang pertanyaan seperti 1,5 atau 2,3 atau 3,5 dan kita juga harus melihat pembentangan dan juga untuk mengubah fertilisasi sintetik kita harus mengubah untuk mengubah fertilisasi sintetik kita harus mengubah untuk mengubah fertilisasi sintetik dan juga untuk mengubah fertilisasi sintetik Sandy, kamu ingin bilang sesuatu? Saya ingin menyebabkan lebih banyak komen dari pembentangan lain pembentangan kita juga ada pembentangan WRI dan Mr. Wayan dan Pembentangan Ekonomi dan kita juga ada Tarionno dari RMU Selamat siang Selamat pagi, Sony dan juga Sandy nama saya Arif dari WRI terima kasih untuk mengubah fertilisasi sintetik saya juga ada pembentangan saya dan saya juga ada pembentangan saya dan saya juga ada pembentangan saya untuk mengubah fertilisasi sintetik saya juga ada pembentangan saya saya juga ada pembentangan saya saya juga ada pembentangan saya saya juga ada pembentangan saya saya juga ada pembentangan saya untuk mengubah Fertilisasi sintetik saya dan feliz patrol Pembentangan saya The LTS document is achieving nut sinks and whatever the term is Solution in 2030 or 2031 as being stated in LTS document It is a good thing that can achieve the net zero emission or net zero deforestation Net zero deforestation in Indonesia if we take a look at LTS document The planning document is here. The policy was being developed by the national planning agency And the medium term national development planning has already included that in their document And as we all know, the global climate crisis is being put aside in the midst of pandemic And a significant amount of Indonesia's budget has been reallocated to conduct economic recovery And to support small and medium enterprises in the midst of pandemic And I think slowing down the deforestation rate And to improve the forest land management, peatland and also mangrove It has to wait, so to speak But we also have to know that we have other partners, other financing partners That can strengthen their commitments to achieve, to help achieve the government commitments Or the government targets And as being done in GCS project I am very keen to read all of the Red Plus book of the CIVWAR I was part of it for a number of years, in fact The narratives that was developed there was already very good But we need to strengthen the implementation of those narratives So it becomes our challenge in the future And if the GCS is arriving at the fourth cycle I would like to see this program to provide a more transformative scale examples That can be scaled up And at one point that can be a good example Or success stories from government Indonesia in terms of FOLU Or forest and other land use management Thank you so much for your comment There are some important points that I wrote here Perhaps our action have to be more concrete in the landscape level And Dimo also said something about There is an effort from the GCS to approach the policy making side So we are putting more pressures on the science So improving wealth of knowledge and of the decision making Will be driven by the science findings So I think especially when we try to bridge the science And policy formulation I think policy formulation nowadays has started to integrate Results of scientific research But I would like to see more improvement in the future Sandy, do we still have time? Yes, we do Nia, you are raising your hand I am a researcher from C4 And also part of GCS Red for quite some time now I would like to comment on what Arif stated before On what are the follow-ups after the research What are the next steps after the research On Phase 4, this is something that we are trying to do We try to bridge between science and policy And perhaps Arif already familiar with this Previously there was no emphasis on science policy dialogue Or efforts to the consultation And in this phase We are emphasizing science policy dialogue And this would allow our research To give more impact to the policy And also for other studies that we have conducted We slowly try to understand what are needed Back then we conducted the same approach All countries using a set of the same research approach To allow us to see the trends in various countries However, right now We are trying to pay better attention To what each country needs That is all from me, thank you Thank you, Nia This is also a response to Arif's comment Let me see, is there anyone else who would like to give a response I saw Bapak Joko raise hand Bapak Joko from BKF I would like to respond to what Nia stated before Allow me to share my screen When we are talking about policy We are currently preparing the carbon economic value And when we are talking about the carbon pricing Or carbon tax We are going to do carbon trading and carbon tax And the two programs would go hand in hand And the context here is that We are going to implement polluter's principle And when we are implementing this principle in Indonesia Government has a clear roadmap When we are talking about the carbon price instrument We are going to talk about two things Number one is related to trade We are going to look at the ETS And also crediting mechanism And we are going to talk about carbon tax And also result-based payment For the non-trade instrument Red plus usually work on the result-based payment area Or we have three big projects on this In East Kalimantan, in Jambi And also the Green Climate Fund What's interesting here is the carbon tax Carbon tax will be 2022 And first we will implement it to coal sector And in 2025, other sectors in NDC Including lamping So also be included in the carbon tax scheme However, before we start the carbon tax We allowed them to do trading Or carbon offset Would be the driver for the carbon tax Or from the improvement From corporations And also business people Through carbon trading and carbon offset This can also be an item That reduce the carbon tax later on When we talk about the readiness in 2025 We will have the carbon tax scheme And when we are talking about the plan to do 2022 The plan is to implement the carbon tax For coal sector And the tax to other sectors Therefore, what we can see here is that The science and also previous researchers Are very much needed When we see the mandate From the presidential instruction On the carbon pricing And also harmonization of tax Scheme We are currently in the process Of preparing this And Aside from carbon trading and carbon tax We will also look at how we do the capping Because carbon tax We will also have another tax Based on this cap On top of that Cap And therefore That is an urgent discussion for us Especially when we are discussing several issues Related to the sectoral readiness And also the determination of capping For each sector that would be all from me Bepasoni, thank you Thank you Input And also update Related to carbon pricing That also include tax And carbon trade And result based payment We have heard about the update From the Ministry of Finance And I think this is a good thing Because From NDC And ZE We There Or mentions about carbon tax But there has been no further exercise Related to carbon pricing And therefore The input Your input, Bepa, is very important And we The update Of that you have given us Is actually a Good point to make Nia Kopencat Are you going to say anything now? Sorry Yes, anyone else? We also have to admit That due to Limited time We have not discussed Relations to financing We are talking about That pathway But maybe we should have another session mempunyai masa, karena kita perlu berhati-hati pada masa itu. Saya rasa kita bisa membuka jalanan untuk mau lebih banyak komentar atau pertanyaan dari pemerintah, mungkin dari Bapenas. Ada respons dari Ibu Yuka atau Ibu Yuka Team yang berhati-hati dengan Financing? Saya melihat kita mempunyai Tiza disini. Saya tidak mempunyai pertanyaan. Terima kasih banyak untuk prosesentasi. Terima kasih. Bapenas juga telah berbicara di chat box bahwa tidak ada respons. Sebelum menunggu, mungkin kita bisa juga berbicara tentang perkara lain. Seperti Arif berkata, kita telah berhati-hati dengan pemerintah, pemerintah, atau pemerintah yang berhati-hati dengan pemerintah karbon, dan bagaimana kita bisa membuat pemerintah. Saya rasa itu juga penting untuk pemerintah multi-sektor, yang diperkenalkan oleh Bapenas, dan juga yang Bapak Joko berhati-hati dengan pemerintah karbon, dan bagaimana pemerintah pemerintah karbon akan diperkenalkan dengan pemerintah karbon dan pemerintah karbon pada perjalanan anual. Tapi karena COVID-19, kita akan melakukannya nanti. Tiza, Floris, apabila kita berbicara tentang pemerintah karbon, satu perkara yang penting untuk dilakukan adalah fokus pada pemerintah karbon yang diperkenalkan. Dan pemerintah karbon untuk energi sehingga saya tahu pada pemerintah karbon dan pemerintah karbon dan pemerintah karbon pada pemerintah karbon, saya rasa yang penting untuk melihat pemerintah karbon. Jika kita tidak memperkenalkan pemerintah karbon dan jika kita tidak memperkenalkan pemerintah karbon untuk pemerintah karbon, kemudian kita mungkin tidak akan mempunyai banyak perjalanan, dan kemudian kita melihat pemerintah karbon, harus juga menggantikan proses ini yang akan diberikan. Terima kasih. Terima kasih, Tiza. Sebelum kita berbicara tentang perkara lain, yang penting untuk kita juga berbicara tentang karbon karena tanpa ia menjadi basis untuk banyak hal. Dan menurut kita cara memperkenalkan pemerintah karbon untuk memperkenalkan pemerintah karbon dan ini adalah pemerintah karbon. Kita harus memperkenalkan pemerintah karbon untuk memperkenalkan pemerintah karbon. Bapak Joko berbicara tentang ini, tapi saya pikir kita bisa berbicara lebih tentang ini di pemerintah karbon. Dan bagian tadi, tapi mungkin perlu sikit bersabar. Tapi saya pikir kita harus diperkenalkan karena ini adalah pemerintah karbon dan yang Tiza sudah diperkenalkan sebelumnya adalah sesuatu yang kita perlu memperkenalkan. Ibu Dian, kamu memperkenalkan tangan kamu. Terima kasih. Selamat pagi. Bapak Sonya dan Sandy. Nama saya Dian. Saya ingin beri komen dari sektor pribadi. Kita sangat menghargai inisiatif ini bagaimana kamu memperkenalkan sektor pribadi sejak awal. Terutama industri di dalam yang adalah industri pemerintah karbon. Dan kita mempunyai banyak komitmen yang berbicara tentang emosi net zero. Untuk memperkenalkan inisiatif. Dan juga untuk pesan atau aktivitas lain, kita sangat gembira memperkenalkan sektor pribadi. Untuk memperkenalkan pertanyaan, ada sesiapa yang memperkenalkan ini? Kita memiliki sektor pribadi. Kita perlu memperkenalkan ini. Bersama, kita perlu memperkenalkan sektor pribadi. Bapak Joko, sebelum itu, kita masih memiliki masa? Ya, kita memiliki sektor pribadi. Sektor pribadi adalah masalah yang penting. Apabila kita berbicara tentang pemerintah karbon, dan pemerintah karbon pemerintah karbon, pemerintah karbon yang penting, pemerintah karbon pemerintah karbon pemerintah karbon pemerintah karbon pemerintah karbon yang penting. Apabila kita berbicara tentang pemerintah karbon atau pemerintah karbon apabila kita memperkenalkan sektor pribadi, kita perlu pastikan pemerintah karbon tidak terlalu rendah. Apabila kita berbicara tentang pemerintah karbon yang penting, pemerintah karbon yang penting adalah pemerintah karbon yang penting karena apabila kita melihat jika pemerintah karbon tidak terlalu rendah, kita harus berhati-hati tentang ini. Ini adalah masa apabila kita membuat pemerintah karbon. Jika ada pertanyaan, kenapa kita mulai dengan sektor pribadi? Sebab kita telah membuat pemerintah karbon dan juga transisi dan pemerintah karbon masih menggunakan pemerintah karbon dan hanya. Tapi saya rasa untuk pemerintah karbon, semuanya menggunakan pemerintah karbon, jika kita ingin melihat ini sebagai pemerintah karbon yang penting karena kita telah melihat pemerintah karbon dan juga pemerintah karbon di sini. Jadi pemerintah karbon adalah termain yang berdasarkan pemerintah karbon di tahun 2019 dan kita mempunyai pemerintah karbon dan ini adalah menunjukkan pemerintah karbon dan ini adalah menunjukkan pemerintah karbon dan kita membuat pemerintah karbon kita ingin kita meminta pemerintah karbon menunjukkan pemerintah karbon untuk menunjukkan pemerintah karbon bisa dilakukan karena jika kita tinggalkan pemerintah karbon hanya dan kita bisa melihatnya dalam instruksi presiden kita tidak dapat pemerintah karbon dan pemerintah karbon jika kita tidak memiliki pemerintah karbon pemerintah karbon dan kita membuat pemerintah karbon dan kita melihat bahwa ini juga bisa dilakukan dalam sektor lain kita memiliki Prof. Daniel disini mungkin kita bisa cuba melakukan ini dalam pemerintah karbon dan jika kita bisa melakukan itu, itu akan terlihat walaupun kita faham bahwa pemerintah karbon memperkenalkan dalam Indonesia sudah memperkenalkan teman-teman kita di Warrasi sekarang dan kita harus berbicara tentang bagaimana untuk membalas pemerintah karbon dan pemerintah itu akan semua Sandy dan Sony dari saya, terima kasih terima kasih Bapak Joko itu adalah mungkin kita bisa mencoba melakukan ini dalam sektor pemerintah karbon kita akan cuba melakukan pemerintah karbon pemerintah karbon apologis masih ada masa? sekarang mungkin tidak kita sudah datang ke pemerintah karbon saya ada fesi lain Prof. Daniel, kita akan selesai session ini Maaf, saya tidak bisa mendengar Anda kita memperkenalkan pemerintah karbon untuk melihat pemerintah karbon yang harus diperkenalkan, kita bisa melihat pemerintah karbon dari anda saya dari p Pratisip dumpung saya tidak dapat melihat pemerintah karbon begitu yang saya且 sisi Review saya dapat melihat pemerintah karbon saya rasa saya lihat What is important here, what is the most important is deforestation in primary forest and deforestation and rehabilitation of degraded land. We have examples of several interventions here. Maybe we can also show the results sector. Crop productivity is the highest. Crop variety, okay. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen for your participation in our survey and we will try to model that. And we have also received a lot of input. We have missed Nia on that. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen for your participation. May we all stay healthy. Thank you, Bapak Sony. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I will give the floor to Prof. Daniel to conclude this meeting. Right in time. I just arrived in my house. Sir, we can hear you. Ya dapat koneksi yang bagus. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I still cannot turn my camera on. It has been very productive session that we have here. I think we, Prof. Daniel lost connection. Prof. Daniel. Kembali muncul lagi. Hari ini GCS Red saya kira mendapat amunisi untuk bergerak maju ke depan. We have received plenty of input on how we're going to move forward. I noted mainly two things. Number one on how we are given the opportunity to see red and not just on article five. Based on our discussion, we can see the possibility on how red can also discuss other article, for example, 62 and C4, for example. And the partners are open for this possibility as body of research or body of work. For example, if we have a deadlock on voluntary market, it is possible when we have implemented carbon pricing and also carbon tax next year. It is also possible that follow sector can also see other perspective. If the cap is low, then there is extra credit that can be sold. So the market can also tap into the voluntary and non voluntary. This forum aims to complement GCS Red in the future. Next on the implementation on subnational level. We have learned and we need to look at how this can be implemented on subnational level, not jurisdictional approach, subnational level. Ibu dia has a discuss about social forestry and others. And if we look at other sectors, for example, energy, we have heard input from Bapak Joko, GCS Red, see the land-based sector with a particle boundary and I think it pose a risk. But it is possible that with the participation and also different infrastructure that we can have social fencing to ensure that we can avoid leakage or prevent leakage. Once again, I see that this is a very productive forum. We're not just talking about carbon, but we are also talking about science, medical science, governance, and others. Thank you once again. Thank you for your kind participation and contribution. Thank you Bapak. Thank you Bapak Daniel and all our speakers for your participation in science and policy dialogue. But before we end this meeting, please kindly turn your camera on so we can take picture. Baik yang bisa. 1, 2, 3. Apologize that the session is over. Please kindly fill in the event survey. You can click the link in the chat box and we are also going to send the link to your email. Discussion, first of all, I would like to say thank you and see you again in the next science and policy dialogue. Good afternoon. Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.