 Good morning greetings. We've got a few folks on the line Welcome to our last meeting of this particular to see Hello Everybody very quiet today if I got my sound off. No, no, you're actually just fine I was I realized that my sound was actually like it just it randomly chose some other out It was like why is why is something talking from a corner over here? It should be talking in here. What is this? It's a constant delight that Giving folks a few more minutes to be able to come on it Yeah, I know it's the light like the zoom randomly choosing input mics randomly choosing up with Mike's delight Computers they work sometimes, right? Okay, you should Look at that by all I love the age-old adage of it does exactly what we tell it to do and I would argue that's not really accurate anymore It's as if I had any sort of intent, which I don't think is really accurate anymore Just giving folks a few more minutes to be able to come on in Liz with 31 focus on deck. I'm gonna save like ready when you are Alright, let's see if I can find Agenda Here we go. All right It is updates today. My last updates as chair. So you have to put with me any longer, right? although I'm sure I will still be around and poking my nose in every now and again So let's move on to tag app delivery That is correct. There's a note in chat Like there is four more hours for the TOC elections if you are one of these selecting groups and you should be voted like Getting it in voting. Please. Please. Please. Please do so because once it closes, it's done the end. Yay There are some excellent people who put themselves forward. Thank you to every single person who has done that. Yes, absolutely I'm not seeing anybody directly and mute for our app delivery folks. I'm happy to come back to them. Okay. Yeah, I'm a bit Let's Move on through somebody can make If they are for delivery, we'll come back to you. Absolutely. How about contributing strategy? So Josh work is here Just keeping on with our usual stuff One of the things we've been working with is Some of the marketing folks to actually start raising awareness within the CNC of projects About the resources that we have available and that we've generated From contributor strategy Also for tech security as well Since they have a lot of important resources for projects. I don't think the majority of our project maintainers know about them the In the meantime, we've continued to add stuff The values and read me templates are only awaiting TSD liaison approval And then those will become public the contributor growth has Started work on a Reviewing guide for projects to Generate how to review documents, which is something that's recommended but not required by any of the graduation stages And we'll have a maintainer circle sometime soon Look for announcements there The I've not had a chance yet to file a TOC proposal at this point. I'll wait for the new TSE to be seated that CNCF wide mentorship as you who are requested Be officially assigned under contributor strategy. So I'll do that after the new TSE is seated Sounds good As far as your 2022 PR campaign My suggestion is to be able to use the TOC list because one it's huge There's tons of people in there and that's really where you're gonna get to be able to probably the most eyes on it Yeah, but I think we need to go outside of just the mailing lists though because we're really trying to reach project maintainers And I'm not convinced that they actually read any of the CNCF mailing lists All right, that's fine And I will keep an eye out for maintainer circle. So thank you. Cool. Okay That sounds like some really useful feedback that could come from maintainers circle about whether mailing lists are the best format or Slack or you know, what is the best way to? Yeah Yeah, we've we've gone around on that the problem is that your average project maintainer is an overbooked person And so there really isn't any one good way to reach them And I think to I mean anything with people right different people are gonna respond to different formats So some people are really great at email. Some people are better at Twitter Some people like blog posts, so we're thinking if we can hit people from multiple channels, we can better get the word out Totally make sense Anything else any more questions for contributing to strategy? Lots of good feelings from Chad Ray Thank you Here now lovely. Oh, should we go back to that delivery? Hold that thought you could Yeah, sorry, sorry for being late, but it was it's one of those days where I'm back to back and Time zones are great, but time is still linear. Which is sometimes painful Yeah, so a quick update on the app delivery side on project reviews Just remind of the captain and backstage are a circle in the review by the TUC You also asked us on some feedback on conveyor and by the way, this is the feedback really here for the TUC that you asked us for We are also on a separate track and going to discuss with the conveyor team on how we really want to progress there So we just don't want them to have like back. Okay, this is what we think about your project So very high level on conveyor. So for those of you not familiar, it's more or less a set of tools that emerged out of Some consultancy on the on the IBM and and redhead side for migrating applications over from traditional environments to cloud native world And we had a really hard time wrapping our head around this. So first we think I think it's good that there is it was always part of the charters of app delivery to help people migrate Applications over but when we looked at the project, we found a couple of things that were not that I think that they would have to work on anyways before moving into sandbox like They use different licenses. So some MIT summer Apache to so this is something that they would have to work out also deployment mechanisms are different. So for some you have Kubernetes based deployments. Others are Docker compose based Deployments that are kind of available. So it feels like it's a set of smaller tools that are put together. Some of them are actually even Grafana dashboards. I think there needs to be some housekeeping that needs to be done on the project. Some I would move entirely out like there's some open shift sweet open shift for migration tooling in there which I don't see is going to live very long. There's an interesting project of migrating virtual machines to Kuvert. They are the question is shouldn't it actually be part of Kuvert per se where it might be a better home for it and might fit in there. So yeah, I think our overall feeling is a set of tools that they kind of have built out and like one of the core tools is more as an assessment tool that comes kind of like with this consulting background ish and that's I think where we still will follow up with them. I think some bits and pieces is still something we need to wrap our wrap our head around it but I think they've just wait it is right now. I wouldn't see really how it fits into as a sandbox project and again it also has to think it's never going to really graduate because it's a set of conversion tools so somebody I know we had these discussions on the submission before, and you already have in your calendar a follow up on some of this. Hey, this is this is James LaBachia so I'm involved in the conveyor project so thanks for the update I was going to ask is there a way we can get this feedback faster going forward I put a link. I posted this because after we submitted the sandbox application, I went to the tag app delivery meetings, starting in November and I asked, you know, feedback, I got a couple of questions in there. And so I tried to answer them in this mailing list thread but then I haven't had near replies. And then I showed up last meeting and I forget who was there was Thomas maybe. Yeah, but he said I can't remember like the specifics because I'm like, yeah, it's good to hear like okay if licensing is a problem and deployment method. If we would have known two months ago we probably would have already, we probably could have already standardized and want to move it forward if those are the things but I think just getting that feedback faster be very helpful. Yeah, we tried to do our best with the constraints which we're in and we also reached out to work with you on this so feedback is taken but there was always a holiday break in between. On another topics. If we had it for the working group is also something we're working on, because one of the feedbacks from cube con was, hey, you guys actually exist. Which was kind of interesting. So yeah, we do exist. So we're currently working on the blog post introducing a bit more of the tech work that we're doing and also planning to do an app delivery day around cube con, like focusing on app delivery. Anybody who has done this before things security has done that your feedback is highly appreciated and how you set this up and make this work. Because I think most of the pre conference events are more less focused towards companies and not the tags are setting them up so much. But we plan to really get this done for the upcoming cube con to have more of the app delivery conversations happening there as well. That's it from app delivery. That's amazing. I'm going to guess that there is not a lot of lead time for getting that co located event up and running so probably, you know, time is of the essence but I think that's a really good thing to try and put together the security con folks tech security definitely have a ton of experience on how they got theirs off the ground so definitely sync with them. Any questions for tank up delivery. All right, so should we move on to network. Now Europe. Really, there's two topics today. One is just, I think I think we've only met as a tag. Once since last we gave an update, and the focus of the discussions had been within the working group and progress toward one of the long term goals that that is that the working group has had and that's like to going through just a large set of tests scenarios for evaluating characterizing performance across different service matches and different configurations but so as of today, a couple of the maintainers have access to CNCF cluster. So we met with equinex metal and try to familiarize with the environment a bit or sort of describe the, the, the nature of the tests and then sort of the ongoing goals. And so, so progress there. So we can call in the working group for participation for folks that are. Well I'm going to abuse the terms since everyone else does I suppose, and that's to say that folks that are more into DevOps, or more into tooling than they are necessarily into code. Come and participate and so there's help needed in that project. The part of the project goal is to have a public facing public facing dashboard of those performance results. So there's a request for engagement there as well. That's kind of that's the update from the working group. There is on the last project that was proposed for sandbox is fab edge. There's an active thread in the TSE mailing list, sort of, you know, discussing the project and the co chair, Ed, who was kind of deep diving toward fab edge he's got a conflict today. So, Ken, who's also co chair is on the call. Ken, I don't know that either Ken or myself I don't have a have a response like it's just it's not a project that that I've spent time with you. They didn't present. It's a couple of things to take away I suppose it's, well it's a new project. I think it's pretty pretty young it's I think it's grown two fold since they presented a couple of months ago, which is maybe less about project growth and more about how that that it's early. So, you know, the fact that it's going through diligence and some additional questions I think it's probably probably healthy. Well it's healthy for the project in general, but also gives the project a little bit of time to mature, as it goes to be considered. So, um, Liz, I know you taken just a moment to look at the project. It was the lat is the thread closed in your mind or is there still some feedback that would be some additional context would be. I think there was definitely some more information in that thread that was helping to clarify it. I think the. It was unclear whether or not fabric was sort of trying to, well, trying to is the wrong word, whether it is a Kubernetes CNI that people could slot in, you know, like any other CNI and my impression is that well actually there is a sort of another CNI that is not for pod to pod connectivity but that uses the CNI to provide the edge connectivity, which I think makes sense sounds like it's going to potentially cause some confusion so maybe we need the kind of CNI project at the end to sort of weigh in on how they want to describe that or classify, classify that or something because I guess people won't go very far down a road of saying oh we'll use this CNI and then discovering that actually it's an edge specific CNI that that that was one of the things that we were a bit worried about. And also when we were looking at that sandbox proposal, there was, I think from memory some, we were unclear how it fits with the QB edge project and whether or not there's overlap their consolidation that should be considered. So I don't think it's clear. I think in terms of whether the thread is closed or not if the proposal is, you know, I think that the TOC next sandbox review meeting would look at that again. I'll poke head on the subject. And then as well as I'll send a quick note to while we're on the call send a quick note to the CNI team to have them to ask if they have a qualifications as to what they consider in and out of bounds in terms of that term or in Yeah, that sounds good. There are other projects Submariner is a good example of another project that you know is focused on no denote things actually would be good to like just reflect on Submariner and whether or not they use CNI as a term they affiliate as being a CNI or not. Yeah, a couple of examples. Yeah, that makes sense. I think you might want to involve some of the folks on the Q batch project. And I think there's two other projects that are working with technologies related to the edge, super edge and open year. And I think it's the idea just to have more clarification among the different projects of, you know what supported and not supported. Because I think there was some confusion about, you know, Q batch. And what was on the documentation about what five edge supports. So, I think it will be great to have that clarification. Yeah. Anyways, that's good feedback, we had asked some of the guy can't. Yeah, some of the, I don't, some of the presentation was a bit unclear to me when it was originally proposed we did give feedback and some of those were the same questions was like, was clarification on which which was which and what the purpose was. And so he the maintainer that was proposing did come back with some of those some clarification. Anyway, I'll. I'll reinforce that messaging and maybe actually Ricardo I think to your point I guess your suggestion is, hey, it would be helpful to hear from those other projects about how it is that they, they characterize that they posture and characterize the difference. Yeah, yeah, and I can help you with a Q batch and those projects because they have actually presented an entire runtime. So, so hopefully that really help. Yeah. Yeah, just bring me afterwards. Any other questions for network. Lee quick question from this is dims. How frequently are those performance tests is it. Are we going to run them every day every six months. What's the frequency. Yeah, but the vision there is that the hope is like every day. The vision is that the tooling is a bit tooling is available to each of the service mesh projects to do it themselves. Like each of the projects are going to have an opinion about what the particular test scenarios are, and then may want to like the part of the goal of the project is to focus on the strengths of each of the those service meshes in context of their performance. And acknowledge where they're weak or maybe what what scenarios what workloads or what deployment styles maybe don't work very well for them but but so it is to anyway the tooling is, is open. We're hopeful that each of the projects would come and weigh in on what the scenarios are and then actually take the tooling and integrated into their building release into their CI such that they can be self reporting. There's mechanisms in there to let them kind of like you would do a con a conformance test in a similar way if they're running their own performance, they can report in that performance. The concise answer is daily, like the concise answer is, there's a, there's a more there's a combinatorial factorial like permutation set of all the scenarios that could be run. And they're all valid, actually, that some, some are much more useful than others, to the extent that they're very representative. That's actually another area that we've been seeking input from users on is like which of these scenarios looks like you. Yeah, the main reason for asking the question is, there's a tendency for these kinds of things to like bedrock quickly. Yeah, that's the reason for asking. Thank you. I think that it under. Yeah, I think that it undoes the value if it's a, if it's a one shot thing or an every six months thing I think that the part of the value that it could potentially provide is undone. Thank you for tech network. Thank you, Lee observability next. Yeah. Hello. I'll be brief and bright, and then gone. In the last few meetings. We've had a lot of engagement with other parts of the CNCF. So for example at the end of December, Scott read me from the good ops working group came to the tag meeting. We've tried to provide some logistical and kind of like a heads up on how to launch something similar to open get ops, get ops working group as part of tag app deploy launched open get ops dev as its own project with its own lifespan. We took some advice from Chris last year. And we kind of, you know, started filling out a project plan for observe case which I'll get to in a moment. In today's meeting. We have Catherine, Paganini from the glossary project that business value subcommittee. So this is a clear opportunity to help contribute observability terms to the loss rate project. In addition, bumblebee joins us to discuss the project solo.io CNCF member has open sourced this is an ebpf toolkit. We have a brief overview of what the project is and say hello for the first time. In future meetings we'd really like to invite other projects in the observability space that are that are relevant. For example, Hubble, we'd love to have Hubble come give a deep dive or an overview for for the observability community about you know how it's easy ebpf and just what it is and how it works. We are presently engaged with the cartographer's working group. There's just not enough, not enough human resources so there's a big opportunity if anyone wants to contribute there or in many other ways. And obviously other projects maintainers, you know, pretty much whomever is in our big tent is welcome to come present topics and discuss things we have an open agenda. I mentioned it before but there's a project called observe dash k8s that we've launched what we're in early planning for q1 will be really planning and nailing down the project plan and resourcing and things like that. We expect to be actively working on this in q2 and q3 expect an email for me later on today, formally requesting the TOC to kind of approve the working group I believe is the process but we've been doing this over the last few months. Again, with some guidance from folks on the call last year to build some interest and so Michael Hasenbloss from AWS and Ken Finnegan from Workday, myself, and a number of others have all contributed to a working document that is sort of charter mission and overall concept that I've linked in the slides, and we expect to close down on that as well. So we'll announce a public nomination period for working group chairs, and we are excited to launch that. We have also secured the observe k8s, and things like that and plan to transfer all of that to the CNCF, if approved and if it makes sense to do so. In short, what it is, is it's a curated community driven. You know, set of cloneable representative apps with examples of how to instrument them and or grok, you know what it is that they're doing with useful examples of CNCF projects and tooling to bear. This is not the tag saying this is the right way to do it. This is the tag saying we're launching a project and projects in the space which will be reaching out to our welcome to contribute to it, and we encourage it and we hardly welcome it so we're excited about that again it's early definition. At the moment, but we hope to be closing down on that in the coming month. And then lastly, we've got chair and TL nominations and elections coming up. The chairs myself and Richard Hartman are up in the April May timeframe, and we desperately need additional technical leads and or contributors. We have a lot of different things and issues defined that are open for contribution. And that's it. Any questions or Nice, I put in the chat I can organize a helpful presentation for you. I figured. Okay, anything else for. Okay, let's move on to runtime. Right, tag runtimes. So in terms of, well, for first presentation for the year. So in terms of projects and communities. We're talking to a few projects in the containers and runtime space. We're going to have a presentation of in clever containers. This is a take on confidential computing. It's mainly from the folks at Intel. So excited to see that that's going to be next month, but a month from now. And on the workloads space, we had cluster net present and we're having cluster net present on February 17 two weeks from now this is a project that allows you to manage multiple clusters or fleet of Kubernetes clusters. Excited to see that project. K native is another project in the scope of this tag and they're having a presentation in our next meeting. They're going through incubation and I think the due diligence has been completed and the public comment period has been open. And so, if you have any comments about the project for free to comment on the mailing list. So this this project has been without a foundation for a while so we're excited to see this join the CNCF. Qvert is another project that is going through incubation and we just completed a due diligence document and that will be shared with the rest of the community rest of the TOC and public comment period I think will be open pretty soon. Then open cluster management, another project that is very similar to cluster net. So it allows you to manage a fleet or a large number of Kubernetes clusters so we had a presentation from them are in our last meeting. This is already a CNCF sandbox project. Then on the AI IoT Edge MLOB space, we had presentation from K0S. This is a project very similar to K3S. This is a way to run in Kubernetes in the edge. They do have some differences so if you're interested you can take a look at the project. They haven't thought about applying for the CNCF but something to look in the future maybe they will apply. And then in terms of activities in the TAG, we're excited to have Alex Konebski join the TAG as a tech lead. So he brings in about 20 or plus years of experience. He works at Intel working in open source and working in containers and making sure that you have some capabilities developed in the container ecosystem. Then we have a working group in progress, the Batch system initiative. We are working on the charter so we expect that hopefully to be done by the end of this month. And finally we have a KubeCon EU presentation in the planning stages so that hopefully that will help continue to increase the engagement of the community. That's all that I have for the updates and I'm happy to take any questions and now I'll hand it off to the next TAG. Hello everyone. We have a few updates. We're doing a lot of reorganization within the group to make sure that we're staying on task and actually getting a lot of things accomplished. So first up, cloud custodian review is complete. We just have a few more checks to go through before we can merge that into the repo. We've started ramping up for an ARGO review. This is a very large project. It's actually consistent of four sub projects that we will be reviewing sequentially due to low reviewer count. If you are interested in participating in a security review, you don't have to be a security person. We are more than happy to mentor and talk through that. We're looking for more security reviewers. We're also working on refocusing our roadmap. So last year we had a very large plan and a very big goal of a lot of things that we wanted to accomplish. Unfortunately, we did not get them all done. We do have a lot of projects in flight though. So we're looking to close all of those out and kind of re-scope so that we have a more manageable target of about two to three projects per quarter. And lastly, we want to welcome Pushkar to our security TAG leadership team. He has been an active contributor within the security TAG for a number of years. We're very happy to bring him into the leadership team. That's everything. Thank you, Emily. And also thank you to Ricardo, who I didn't say thank you to before. Any questions for security? Okay. Thanks, storage. So some updates on the projects. We had, we're scheduling an updated presentation from the project. We've concluded the DD review. There were a few questions from the TOC and one of the things that came up was that they're proposing quite a big update of the project and it includes a rename. So we're going to be, they're going to be presenting that to the TAG on our next month at the next school, the call after the next school. And we'll report back after that. I don't anticipate that it will materially affect the DD, but it's obviously sort of something we kind of need to capture in that process. Open EBS. We've had a meeting with the team. The team still wants to proceed with the process. We have some questions open with them around some of the changes that have happened following data cores acquisition of Maya data and some of the team changing roles or moving to different firms. So we just want to sort of see what the status is on the various different components of that project and see whether we still want to proceed with the move from sandbox to incubation. The curve storage system, that had gone for a sandbox approval and the TOC had asked that they present the project. We had presented just before Christmas and it's a very large project with lots of components and lots of functionality under very active development with a number of large production systems. And we actually had to schedule a follow up call to kind of go through some of the more technical parts of the components, which was extremely interesting. At this stage, I think there is nothing from the tag point of view to stop recommendations to move this into sandbox. It is a very interesting system with both sort of block and file system capabilities with good integration with sort of dilative components. And I think there's a lot of promise here. There are some rough edges that the team are working on, but I think it definitely meets all of the criteria for sandbox. So I'd like to supply that feedback back to the TOC for the next sandbox review. We've also, not on this list, but we've also had a session with the Cartographus team and we have in principle committed to providing them with an update and some text to their maturity model in relation to some of the storage sections, which we're hoping to deliver to them around the March timeframe so that they can be reviewed and made available before keep on the EU. And then finally, for some of the planning sessions that we had at the end of the year, we're setting up a number of project updates. And the first one was the tests which we had last week, which was a really great update. And definitely we're pushing the recording if you're interested in that project. We're going to be scheduling more of those presentations and updates on some of those storage projects as we go forward to the list is in the tag meeting minutes. And I think that covers our update, unless there are any questions. That's great. Thanks, Alex. And I think particularly for working the way through all these different incubation proposals and helping us navigate the differences between them. Thanks. Thank you. Any other questions on that. Okay, should we look at the project status. Should we just have everyone who's on the call. Let us know. So maybe we'll start with Elena. Actually, who is actually here. So, yes, we'll maybe have any troubles. Elena, are you here. She's trying to unmute all around. Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay, well we work with your microphone issues for Elena. Let's move to Justin. Who may also be having trouble as well. You don't have trouble. Excellent. No, I don't have trouble. No. So, in total is, I think coming out of public comment tomorrow. Yes, I think that's right. So, yeah, and GRPC, I will do a handover if I'm not related. Okay. That sounds perfect. I've put a note on this slide just for full transparency. I am holding that particular vote until we get the new TOC sorted. It would be meaningless to be able to try to be able to open a vote right now. I love all of you, but like, it doesn't make any sense. So, if anyone has any comments, please comment it still you have a day. Yes, you get slightly longer in public comment. Is Harry here? I don't believe so. Nope. I see no Harry. So, I will move on to Ricardo. Yep. So we need one more end user interview to open public comment for volcano. The due diligence is finished. And custodian. We've done a couple of end user interviews and I'll think we'll do a sync this week to see what's the next step. Thank you. Next for volcano. Oh yeah. See you again. You are next for volcano. Yeah, for volcano. That's, um, that was that was the first part was for volcano. Yeah, so custodian is moving forward and we'll do a sync this week and volcano will be, we just need one more end user interview that should happen next couple of days to still open the public comment. Very soon. Yep. And I know you're good. No, not to work. So for for covert, the DD is done the end user interviews are done. I'm planning to open the project for public comment period this week. We have metrics have passed for sure working with the team to be able to figure out how to announce. Yeah, open. And yeah, it's been. It's about an announcement. Yeah. Great. I was going to say we're missing backstage, which is with me. Yeah. And I have done three user interviews were in reasonably good shape. I am shooting for us to have that due diligence document done by the end of the week when I stopped being on the TOC and then someone else will have to take it over through the public comment but hopefully there will be someone on the new reconstituted to see who's prepared to do that because I would have done all the network. It's looking in good shape. We will find someone that is completely fine. That's kind of the important stuff that I want to be able to cover for projects playing new levels. Right. Questions. We never get time for questions. This is great. Oh, one second me. I think we missed. Okay, native. You're right. Yeah. It's in public comment. The other one was projects waiting for sponsors I think. Spiffy Spire. There was a PR open. Yes. That just came in my thinking around that one is that that's meaningful to be able to look probably like the meeting on the 15th. Because there's plenty of things that people want to be able to review. And again, our new reconstituted TOC. We'll have more to say about that. Unless somebody wants to be able to like actually sponsor here, which I was not going to put you all in the spot for. Seeing no one throwing up their hands. I'm going to treat that as probably like the right way to be able to go. We'll take care of all of them. Thank you for your questions. Comments. I will take this moment to be able to thank Liz very officially and very, very formally and warmly for being our chair for this year. Yes. Thank you. Thanks to sad and shang who are also stepping down after this is your last meeting with all of us. So thank you so much. Thank you for your work. Thank you for closing the elections this afternoon and confirming a new TOC and thank you. Thank you to sad and shang as well for me. And yeah, I won't be going far away. So, you know, you'll see me around. We'll see what happens. It's been a pleasure working with all of you. Wonderful. It's been a huge, huge honor. Thank you. Do you want to say something? Yeah, thank you. I said thank you. Thank you. Now we need to make that emeritus mailing list and make sure you're all around. That is going to be my next thing is being able to make sure that all of the emeritus have like access into emeritus can come in and weigh in on projects and let everybody know as far as like, Hey, if there's something that we should be thinking about that we're not. We want to hear from you. We have special t-shirts for that role as well. I think it's something. I think it's something. I know. I know. I wore it especially. Plus one non binding shirts. Yeah, we could work on that one. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Thanks everyone. You get a few more minutes back in your day today. So yeah, take care. See you soon. Thank you all. Good to see you all. Bye everyone.