 Y and a given Thursday at 2PM is sync tech and our special guest today is Ron Han. He's director of a veteran services in the state of Hawaii and PS today, if you didn't know, is veteran state. Ron, so nice to have you on, especially today. Jay, it's an honor to be here. Thank you so much. And also want to thank you for your Coast Guard service as well. Thank you, Ron. You know, I was working on a little movie. That's why we're a minute late here today. And I went on the various stock photo sites to pick off some veterans photos. And it was really an experience to do that today because I saw so many photos that touched me. Photos not only of veterans from World War One, but of course from World War Two, various branches of service, bunch of photos of cemeteries in Normandy, for example, but in Arlington also. And it reminds me of how profoundly affected I have been whenever I went to a cemetery like that. And some of these photos, you will see, I hope, are also powerful photos of young men. Sometimes you don't realize how young, you know, how we send our young men off to war and there's fear in their eyes. There's cynicism in their faces. They're terrified and they're there on the battlefield not knowing what will happen to them. And there's so many photos like that, you know, there's a library of photos about American fighting men all the way through our history and we forget how much. That's so true, Jay. You know, I mean, some of the things that you have probably interviewed so many people and we touch a lot of veterans' lives just transgenerational. I mean, you can't get charged up enough when you see these veterans who didn't ask for anything but went out there to go serve their country. Many gave their lives. Many came back and their lives were changed, you know. Some had to fight wars on two different fronts. It's just an amazing kind of thing that you have to go through and like you and many others, we've got many family members. We have friends. We got people that are touched by this veterans' day and it always is very kind of melancholy for all of us because of the fact that like you said, I was earlier with General Hara, General Logan and our Command Sergeant Major in the cemetery, Hawaii State Veteran's Seventary along with Rob Lee, our Seventary Operations Manager, just to lay a simple wreath on behalf of the state. Now, most people think, you know, of course, Veteran's Day is for the living, but we never forget, we never forget, just like what you said earlier, Jay, about those who sacrifice so very much because that's what we have today and we cannot forget those who are still serving in harm's way and supporting the so many different missions that are out there, whether it be guard, reserve or active duty members. So the tradition is that 11 minutes after two and we happen to have two o'clock for the show you and me run, so it could not be more appropriate and 11 minutes after it's about that now, we take a couple of minutes of silence and our engineer, Eric Calander has a graphic which we'll hold on the screen for those two minutes and you and I can both think those thoughts maybe our audience can too. So in accordance with the tradition that has existed since World War I, we're gonna take two minutes to think about that starting right now. How did it run? Powerful stuff and we have more graphics which we hopefully will be able to show later in this program, but I do wanna take a moment and talk to you about the Veterans in Hawaii. We know that war has changed life and the service has changed, life and death in the service has changed and the welcome home for veterans certainly has changed. It wasn't only we gave up the draft which I always thought was a benefit for the country myself but it wasn't only that that has changed over the past few decades, it's everything. It's war, it's politics, it's geopolitical engagement and of course it's life in the service, life on the battlefield and the nature of the battlefield itself. So you see that as the director of veteran service. You see them, may I say, coming home. How has it changed? What is it like to see them coming home? That's a great question, Jay. You know, it's such a different era that we live in. My dad was a Vietnam era veteran. He had to take off his uniform in the aircraft when he landed in San Diego because there were some riders at the airport that were gonna pelt him. And so took his uniform off and put his civilian clothes on. That's one small problem. Had this huge green duffel bag when it was coming down the air stairs. Didn't make a difference anyway, you know? But those Vietnam veterans, you know, we stood on their shoulders and like the Korean war veterans, like the World War II veterans, you know, the greatest generation, there's just so many people. Now the same with our global war and terrorism, you know, veterans. And one of the big dynamic things, and you've seen this, Jay, you've taught to many people when our folks have gone to Vietnam or they've gone to Korea, a lot of times it's a single tour. It can be a 12 month, it can be an 18 month and our global war and terrorism and our Gulf War veterans have gone back two, three, some as many as five and six times with those kind of experiences, you know? And it's just incredible, you know? And the healthcare requirements and the way they triage and the way they do the support for those veterans, I should say military members, it's just incredible. I think it was less than a 50% survivability rate when you come out of Vietnam, maybe two, two and a half weeks. You know, if you're even lucky to do that, you know? Now with the Gulf War and our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it's almost like 90, 95% but a lot of these veterans are surviving with a lot of different ailments when they've come back from so many, you know, different excursions that they had to go on. You know, every one of these revolutions brings up something brand new, you know? If our police force, the law enforcers, God bless them. You know, when they gotta go out and do things, they stand down if they have to pull their weapon. What does a military member when they go on patrol do? Well, they go back and they regroup and they go back out and patrol the next night, the night next, the following night until they keep getting that mission done. And so it's a huge difference in what we see out there. So now that crosses over to claims, Jay, and you're right, you're absolutely right. Now you see where these claims are now anywhere from double digits to, you know, different types of muscle skeletal. There are TBI, traumatic brain injury, post-traumatic stress. It runs the entire gamut because our folks are exposed to so much. The big one, of course, now is the exposure to toxic materials or the burn pits and other related things that are going on, you know? Of course, we still can't forget the other generational folks. Our Vietnam veterans that first came in this job, there were only eight presumed developments. You talk about change, eight presumed developments for Agent Orange. We're up to 17 today. And now we have the Blue Water Navy. I know you've probably done segments on that. And now can our take of being able to get claims where for decades they've been denied and denied and denied. So there have been a lot of upheavals. Can more be done? There is more coming. There's no doubt about that, especially for caregivers and for other related survivors that have to support the living veteran. Yeah. Well, what troubles me over the past, over my observation of this, which is, you know, I got out of the service in 1971, is that when they come home, although there are military and veterans organizations dedicated to support them, the public, as in the case of your father, may not support them at all, or know or understand or appreciate that they put their life in harm's way to preserve this country. And this country is what sustains all of us. We forget that. We forget how critical it is to have a country. And maybe we think that countries go by themselves. And you don't have to do anything to have the benefit of a country, a democratic society like this, what you do. And one of the things you have to do is you have to defend it. And you have to have sovereignty and you have to preserve its borders. You have to preserve its integrity. You have to preserve its place in the global order. And that's what the military is there to do for our security and our quality of life at a very fundamental level. So what troubles me is when they come back, they have experiences like your father. And I know about experiences like that in the Vietnam time and I'm sure it happens now. And when you have a volunteer force which is less than a million altogether, you have people who have no clue back in the civilian community what goes on. They don't know what happens in the theater of war. They have no idea what it's like to be in the skin of a crouper. They have no idea about the risks, dangers, and the disabilities and deaths that result from being in a theater of war. So part of it is to educate them. Part of it is to make it clear that these people are serving us and their service to the nation. It's service to every single one of us. And so credit goes out to you and the veterans organizations all around the country to appreciate that, to publicize that, to educate people about that and of course to take care of the veterans. And there have been times I'm sure you can tell me about it where veterans organizations in government were not really caring for veterans. You've already alluded to that. And that's more than tragic. It's a violation of an oath of a promise that we must keep to preserve and protect and help our veterans return. So I guess the question is, are we doing that now? You talked about the increase in online item disabilities and handicaps and ailments that veterans may have when they come back and greater coverage under the veterans claims procedure. But what about all those veterans who have experienced trauma and have PTSD? I've heard it referred to now instead of PTSD because a lot of veterans don't wanna call it a disorder. It's just a condition. So they call it PTSD now. And also the problem about re-entering the economy, finding housing, getting married, having kids, having that white picket fence they dream about while they're on the battlefield. What about that? Are they getting that or are there obstacles for them to get that these days right now? You bring up a very good point about the fact that with this transition assistance program when I went through it, it was like a three-day optional kind of thing. Now they're trying to get our military members anywhere from six to a year out to start planning ahead. So by the time they leave the service, they already probably have the disability claims in the system. There's already a rating, potentially compensation ready for them. And they've already done the wraparound services with the jobs. I'm looking at all the other, looking at veteran-friendly employers. Education's already set up for them. So there's none of this, what I'm gonna do, I'm by myself, I've lost my teammates. I don't have anybody around me that's a support network like I had in the military. So I see some of that really happening a lot better. And you're right about the veteran service organizations, the state and other folks that partake in things now. We recognize that. And we wanna make sure that if we do anything right, we're ahead of that power curve. Because if we do those kind of things, we'll help those others. And you know how that works? Because when you help one veteran with that kind of help, that veteran will start spreading that word to their other battlemates, their other shipmates, their other wingmen. And that's how they start working out all those other details like that. And that's how that work gets done. One veteran taking care of another veteran. There's many things that the government tries to do and the community organizations, I'm gonna tell you what, Jay, it's gonna be that veteran saying, follow me, I'm gonna get you the help that you need and you're coming with me now. You're gonna come see the state, you'll see the VSO, you're gonna come see the VA and we're getting you registered today. And I've seen a lot of that happening. Well, to the extent that people don't understand, they don't participate, they don't care about the life of the veteran either in the service or out. The veterans themselves understand, they form a community, they are a community and you're there to enable and encourage that community, be a rallying point for that community, which is a great function, I'm sure that touches you as it does me. But I wonder how that works because they come back, they have problems, they have medical problems, they have psychological problems, they have economic problems for sure, they have social problems in terms of dealing with people who don't understand. And so, query, what role does that community play? How can you bring them into the community, be sure they're getting the benefit of what you're talking about and how can you bring the community to them to envelop their lives to improve their self image and their quality of life every day? And so, and what happens when somebody loses touch with that community? What's the risk, what's the damage? I'm sure you see a lot of cases where that happens where it separates man, the individual veteran returning doesn't have the connection and he pays a price, we all pay a price if he doesn't reconnect. Can you talk about it? Yeah, well, you know, it's a community effort, you hit on a lot of important points, but also remember now, and you know this, the veteran also has a responsibility as well. I can't tell you how often we've gone out there and we have all these services where we're helping them do a step up, we're giving them all these resources and somehow some way the veteran will not embrace that for whatever reason, you know? They're so used to the type of life that they're living in and it's just hard to have that breakaway with them until you can find something in that wheelhouse of theirs that makes sense, that clicks, that gets them to do the help that they need. You know, we had an individual, I don't want to go all through all the details to discuss anything that might be, Mangleman was his name over on the Windward side and our team members from the homeless program over at the VA, the benefits administration, healthcare folks went out and he had come up on some type of a big article and he wasn't getting the help and the support that he needed and folks just said, you know, we're going to go help this individual and they made it an effort and many people went out there directly to make sure that individual needed the help and apparently way back when, just kind of like what you said, Jay, they weren't getting the help that they needed and I will tell you, the VA people have said this many times, it was all about the institution five, 10 years ago. It's about the VA institution. Now it's very much veteran centric. It's about what the veterans, you know, you can do all these great things but if the veteran doesn't feel like they're getting taken care of, they're getting help, it's not going to make a difference and that one individual got connected right away, that one individual got connected with wraparound services and he was so very grateful for somebody that just simply cared. Somebody just simply went above and beyond what they would normally do just to say, you know what, you're not going to do this alone. We're going to go ahead and help you get there and that's what that team did and that's what we should be doing each and every time we have an issue like that. Now some require a lot more with mental health issues and other things but we have the specialists, we have the right people, we've got the professionals, we just need to make sure that they get connected to them and again, the veteran, we've got to make sure we can get the veteran to be receptive to receiving the help and the healthcare that they need. Yeah, I mean the worst thing is when they kind of separate not only from the veterans community and the military in general, the military community as you will and then they separate from society in general and they wind up alone in a homeless camp and that's more tragic than I can explain. And it just touches all of us when we see that happening. Here's somebody who put his life on the line, protect the country and what in the world is a country doing for him that he should be sleeping on the sidewalk? That's just intolerable. So tell me about your programs and how do you do the outreach? How do you connect? How do you provide these services? How do you speak to them and engage with them? Tell me about your programs. So a lot of the things that we do, a lot of times it's by word of mouth but we also have a lot of different connectivity points. So for example, the state advisory board on veteran services is made up of veterans in various regions throughout the state. We got representatives on Kauai and Hilo and Kona and Maui and they also help support some of the other smaller areas like Maui and Lanai as well. Of course here in Oahu and they're kind of the conduit that ties in a lot of the things that are happening with veterans very much in those regions and those city and counties and those townships. They in turn tie into the veteran consuls. So in each and every area. So we have a veterans consul here on Oahu called the Oahu Veterans Consul. That's 45 service organizations that meet every single month, the fourth Saturday. There's one on Kauai, the Kauai Veterans Consul. There's a Maui Veterans Consul that also meets. There's a West Hawaii Veterans Consul that meets up there and there's also an East Hawaii one on the big island that's coming together. And the Molokai also has their own as well. So the connectivity points are all there to be able to get the help that they need. And then we just try to do the very best that we can to provide the outreach services that they're specifically looking for. If they need help on claims submissions, if they need help on just registering to get a veteran health card to get into the VA if they just wanted to, hey, everybody's refinancing today. Why aren't you taking advantage of the low VA home loan guarantees that are out there, you know? And here's how you can get that kind of help. Why aren't you using your GI education bill? The post-11 GI bill is transferable to your family of members. My dad went to school on the GI bill out of Vietnam. He got his degree, became a teacher. You know, what is going on out here? So a lot of times it's just a matter of where we are. We just did a talk story, you know, with the Kauai folks yesterday. And, you know, we're hoping to get more people involved. About a month and a half when we meet June to July, there's a two-hour session each week. We did a partnership with a couple of very prominent folks to do a virtual veteran summit. And our last speaker was Jessica Lynch. You know, she was out of Iraq, the Iraq campaign. She got captured and injured. I remember she was a national news item for sure. Folks came and saved her. Well, she was the last keynote at the end. And part of the thing was to talk about what's happening with our women veterans, you know, the fastest demographic that's out there. We do have a new, well, I say a new approach to the women's veterans state subcommittee that started. We have a full-time Hawaii National Guard, Army National Guard 06, Pam Ellison, who's running that particular program. She's got folks that she's put it together right now. About three or four years ago, they had the Women's State Veterans Summit, you know, that were done, they had several of them on the neighbor islands. And that's how you educate. That's how you get the word out. That's how you outreach. That's how you connect. That's how you develop the kind of things that you need to do out there, you know? We got tie-ins with the Veterans Employment Training System with the Department of Labor. You know, they're bringing the job requirements. They look for veteran-friendly employers that really want to hire veterans. And, you know, and then we see all these different little things. We were on the state task force that dealt with a lot of other things that are trying to help bring in some other new pieces of community partners, like ARP and other related things that just do some amazing work to help veterans, like what you're doing, Jay, to put out things on ThinkTech, because I see a lot of things that you're doing to help get the word out about, you know, the veteran plight and the issues that are out there. So all these things kind of all add up, you know? And we can't do it by ourselves. We can't do it with a single entity. It's a multi-ship formation. Everybody's got to go out there. And nobody is satisfied with any of the work that we're doing now, because we know we got a lot more work ahead of us. You know, it's so interesting that, you know, we're talking about people who have been assigned to Afghanistan over the years, and when they finish one tour, they go back, and maybe again, and that's voluntary. That's not because they're ordered back five times because they want to. And you know what it is, though, I like to raise this thought with you. They're kind of their veterans who are still in the service. They're veterans of a given campaign. They don't have to go back to that campaign, but they do go back. And my question is, can you help me understand why? Can you help me understand this whole notion of a veteran being a veteran who is still on active duty? You know, it's incredible, the camaraderie, the love and the passion they have for their battle buddies and for the things that they do, Jay. You know, it's just incredible the sacrifice that folks do. They see a mission that is, that may not have been completed to the requirements and the objectives that needed to be done. And we're not used to, you know, the United States military does not come in second place. You know, it doesn't work. So when we go out there, we take care of the business that needs to be done. We need to take care of all of the objectives, all of the goals that need to be done. And I think many times people are just so, they have so much heart to make sure that if we have still work that needs to be done in some of those regions, and we have battle buddies, we have people out there in those regions. And then not only that, but you saw it happen in the exit from Afghanistan. We had a lot of people that we've gotten to know, interpreters, people that work with the State Department, you know, people that gave up their lives and probably gave up the lives of their family members to help the U.S. while they were in that occupied country out there. You know, I mean, so it's very emotional. It's tied to strong bonds and strong relationships. And that's what the military does. You know that from your own service. You probably still keep in contact with your Coast Guard mates and the folks that are out there. There's a certain purity there. Those relationships are, you know, really lifelong and they're pure. But I wanna go back to something you talked about a minute ago, which I think is critical and we need to talk about it. And that is jobs. In my law firm over the years, we always favored veterans because we found that in general, they were quite competent. They would follow through, you know, that's the big test. Are you gonna do what I've asked you to do and finish the job when veterans, you know, have training in that. And they are like that as a group. And so we always felt they were good hires, predictably good employees. But, you know, actually, I must say there weren't enough of them. I wish there had been more that knocked on our door. And I wonder if they're being connected for these jobs especially in the time of COVID, right? So the job market is all skitter. And sometimes there are too many jobs and too few applicants and sometimes just the other way. Training is important. But I feel as I mentioned that veterans make great employees. And so the question is, are they getting the jobs they need to get? What can we do to make sure they get jobs that are appropriate to their skills, their experience, and to give them the kind of life that they should have on returning from military service. Now, you know, there are special considerations for veterans with preference points, applying for federal jobs. You know, the VA has been on a strong push to hire more veterans in the VA to be able to do certain things. The Department of Labor vets, you know, they run the numbers pretty much monthly. They took a look at the veteran unemployment rates in comparative to what's happening with the populace for the state and national levels. And they try to direct that. They have in the state workforce development program, special advisory committees, and members that help disabled veterans look for job employment and get the things that they need to get moving. So if the veteran needs help in the job, we always tell them, let's use these resources, let us help you navigate to those resources. And it may have to be for you to just get your, just get into a job now. It may not be the number one, number two job you're looking for, but start something now because that will build the momentum. And exactly what you just said, Jay, it's going to take over. They're going to come back, they're going to re hone again. And you know, Jay, we're biased, right? Because we're military members, right? When you talked about hiring some of the best and the brightest, and those are motivated and disciplined, but that's what's going to shine through. Every time they go into job interviews, every time they go through the things that they need to go through, you know? And I know a lot of the veteran and friendly employers understand about what veterans have to go through. And a lot of them understand that, hey, you know, they've been through so much, but I want to try it. Plus, they also had some special, I want to say, employment credits. When you hire a disabled veteran, there's a certain amount of credit that you get for that. And I'm talking money that goes to the employer, as well as just hiring a veteran in general. So I think those credits are still available today. So not only does it pay to hire a veteran, but like you said, Jay, and I'm in total agreement with you, to get the best and the brightest, the most disciplined. These are folks that are used to making the mission work. They will find a way to help support that employer and do right by them, you know? And again, all they need is just a chance, just a chance to get in the door and to show what they're made of. And we see that often, because I know one of our things that are the State Advisory Board, that we have every month, we look at those rates and right now the rates for, I think veterans is doing very, very well. We're lower, with a lower veteran unemployment rate than we are with the populace right now, I think in Hawaii and in the National. That's good to hear. So that just came out within the last couple of weeks when they beat that. So that tells me that the community and the partners that are involved with all that, the employers, the more important, the veterans are still seeking and they're finding and they're getting into programs that is gonna help them now until they can find the ideal job that they're always looking for, you know? Well, we're almost out of time regrettably because I have more I'd like to talk to you about, but I wanna end on this note. The government has and should have substantial and generous programs for veterans. They defend our nation. We call on them to put their lives on the line. And there's no question that we owe them a tremendous debt, every single one of them. And that all of us should appreciate that they are helping us in our daily lives. So we have government programs and as we talked about the government programs have changed maybe to some extent it's political, it's maybe sometimes bureaucratic, who knows what? Sometimes they're better, sometimes they're not, but they are what we rely on to help our veterans. We want those programs to be the best they can be always. But the other side of that is this problem that people don't know, don't understand, don't care what happens to the veterans. And it seems to me that we have to remind people about that because left to their own devices, now they will not care. So I wanna offer you a minute to talk to those people. I would like you to tell them what they should think about here, what should be their way of looking at it in terms of dealing with the veterans. We're coming back into our community who are such an important part of our national process, our national nation. What would you say to those people? Well, thanks, Jay. And I would just tell them very plain and simple, these are your sons, these are your daughters, these are your friends, these are your committee members, these are your neighbors. These are people in the community that were willing to give up their life, like you said, pay the greatest debt with their life to help this country move forward. A lot of them have gone forward and served commendably on active duty and war campaigns. Many of them have transitioned in the Guard and Reserve duty, doing humanitarian and disaster relief kind of things. Look at the National Guard here. They're all over, they're in the airports, they're doing COVID testing. It's just incredible general horror and the team members have to do out here. They're out there on the DLIR, the Department of Labor and Industrial Relations, trying to do unemployment claims and things, you know? That's what our military does, they're so diverse. These are incredible men and women who are out there that are just giving their all every single day. And our community, our state and our nation, you know, we're obligated. You know, we have a sacred trust to go back and make sure that those individuals are taken care of. You know, those are, again, there are sons, there are daughters, there are family members, everyone that we serve, we serve the entire populace. And so we would lay down our lives, you know, for anyone, for the ideals of this great democracy that we live in, that's what the oath that we took, you know, and to make sure that we can do those things. So when you hire a veteran, if you're thinking that you're gonna get someone that has all these issues that come with them, that's understandable. But remember why you're doing what you're doing. You're trying to give that veteran an opportunity to get a start. You're trying to give that veteran an opportunity to show how much a state and a nation and a community appreciates their service. Again, like you said, less than 1%. You know, there's not too many of them out there shrinking every day. And we owe them all great debt. And we owe those who are serving today to know that whatever's happened to those like the Vietnam veterans or Korean War veterans, World War II veterans and now the global war and terrorism veterans that they have still have a future. It's gonna be better when you leave the system, when you separate and you retire, these things are gonna get worked out. I know for me, they were much better than what my dad had when he left the service. Yeah, sure. Ron Han, Director of Veteran Services in Hawaii, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for this special conversation on this special day, Veterans Day 2011. Thank you so much, Ron. That's been an honor, Jay. Thank you so much for all you do as well. Aloha. Aloha.