 Everybody, welcome to the second day of the Dream Weaving conference. I'm Aditi, and Sir Mai, and Sophie, and I will take you through today's session. So we have four presentations this morning. We have Olivier, Iceland. Then we'll have a tea break. This will be followed by the line of Goodwill Team, and Latta and Prashant. So just to say that we have scheduled one hour for every presentation, including the Q&A. We have a timekeeper who will ring the bell after 30 minutes, and then after 45 minutes. And the last ring for the Q&A will be at 50 minutes. So that would mean only 10 minutes left for the Q&A. And we will also prioritize the questions from the Dream Weaving architects so they can have the first round of questions. And anyone else who has questions who are unanswered, you have little sheets of paper on your seats. And you can write down your questions to the speakers on these sheets and give them to us after the session. And we will pass these on to the speaker to then answer over email later on. So without further ado, I will introduce Olivier. Olivier has been an Auroville since 1988, a photographer, filmmaker, graphic designer, working at many Auroville units, and also as a freelancer. He has studied Auroville organization and Auroville prosperity for the last few years and is also a member of the Porteuse Board. So take it, Olivier. Good morning. Can you hear me first? Yes, OK. Good morning, everybody. So I'm going to try to speak about economy and the galaxy. In fact, it was announced, I think, as the economy and the city. But I thought it was more relevant to speak about the galaxy because this is the city which we are talking about. And I will say later on why. So when David asked me if I wanted to join the Dream Weaver to present the economy and the galaxy, I was a bit hesitant because it was a very short notice. And I'm not sure that at that time if I could make a link between economy and how we could develop a city and the galaxy in particular. So I had a very little time. I took the previous presentation that we did about prosperity last year. And with Anne, we tried to condense as much as possible. So the idea is mostly to present what was Schreominot and the mother's vision about economy. And to see how we can, how can a particular economy can influence the development of a city or vice versa. So we'll go through it. So I will start with a few quotes, which are, I think, very relevant to the work we are doing here. And this is a quote from the human cycle. Schreominot says, the aims of its economics would be not to create a huge engine of production, whether of competitive or the cooperative kind, but to give to men not only to some, but to all men, each in its highest possible measure the joy of work according to their own nature and free leisure to go inwardly as well as a simply rich and beautiful life for all. Not any general law of altruism, but rather of self-recognition based upon mutual recognition, must be the broad rule of our human relations. Life is self-fulfillment, which moves upon the ground of mutuality. It involves a mutual use of one by the other in the end of all by all. Ideally done by a higher law of our being, which shall discover a means of reconciliation, free reciprocity, and unity. And finally, it is the unity of all in the solidarity of a common manifestation that will allow the creation of the new and divine world upon the earth. Each will bring its part, but no part will be complete, except as a power in the solidarity of the whole. So that I will skip. So we have put these quotes at the beginning because we felt that there was a relation between this vision and the galaxy. I'm not an architect. I'm not a town planner. But when I look at the galaxy, I can really see a certain dynamic, which I find very interesting. Like in any galaxy, there is a synergy. And I feel that it's something which is spreading, radiating all around. It's not limited by the boundaries of its buildings, but it's really something which should embrace the bioregion and even more. And in this respect, I was very interested when I read this comment by Dr. Joshi when he had an interview with Anu Antoine. I think it was last year. When you look at the galaxy, the first thing is, what is a galaxy? That's the question that we should all ask. And galaxy is a magnet of the universe in which things move and they move in a dynamic balance. And everything can be absorbed and everything can manifest. And everything adds its own value and ability to regenerate, revitalize. There is a dynamic balance, and that balance generates energies. And those energies helps the whole cosmic order of the universe. And I think that this is galaxy. Then he said, what is happening is, given as architects, we look at architecture as buildings. This is not building. It is life. How do you celebrate life? How do you give life? How do you generate life? And how do you enrich life? And I think this is something which one has to talk about. So for me, this was very interesting because it's really about, when we talk about economy, it's not only the financial economy, the whole economy. It's economy, there is economy in nature, in water conservation, and of course in finance. But in regards to the concept of the galaxy, I think this is something which is much bigger than just what we talk as economy in general. So now I will go into the prosperity presentation that we did last year. It's a kind of summary. And just to show what, how the mother conceived the economy for Orville. How to apply these ideas practically into our daily life. Sorry. So that was this work. What we are presenting today is a kind of summary of a work which has been done by the prosperity team for the last few years. And to do this work, we have studied a lot of researches which have been done in the last few years. And also, in particular, the vision of Shri Ramindo and the mother. And the various conferences which were made by Shri Kierjee when he was in Orville. And what was very interesting is that the conclusion of this research, that most of this various attempt to define what could be the economy of Orville, finally, they come to about the same kind of conclusions. So already in the mother's vision, she said there should be somewhere on earth a place which no nation could claim as its own. So already from the very beginning, there was this sense that there is no property in Orville. This is a very basic, fundamental idea about the economy of Orville. And then she said, we're all human beings of good will who have a sincere aspiration, could live freely as citizens of the world and obey one single authority that of the supreme truth. So she said, to be practical, you must first have a very clear vision of your goal, of where you are going. This is not clear for us. It would be very difficult to move forward and to define what we have to do. And she said, the aims of Orville are an effective humanity and peace upon earth. So that's our aim. And all our activities should try to lead us to this state of humanity. In Orville, nothing belongs to anyone in particular. All is collective property. And she said, things are beginning to come for Orville. But there is above all an internal financial question. I would like there to be no money within Orville. We would have to work out something. I would like money to be retained only for relations with outside. And this is, I think, a very interesting part of the dream, which is at the end, where she defines what would be the spirit of this economy. There should be somewhere upon earth a place where work would not be a way to earn one's living, but a way to express oneself and to develop one's capacities and possibilities while being of service to the community as a whole, which for its own part would provide for each individual's subsistence and sphere of action. A place where human relationships, which are normally based almost exclusively on competition and strife, would be replaced by relationships of emulation in doing well, of collaboration, and real brotherhood. When she talked about the economy of Orville, the mother said that it should be kind of adaptation of communism. Really, adaptation, because in her view, the shortcomings of communism is that everything is seen as equal. While in truth, in life, we all have basic needs. But these needs can vary according to the people, to what they have to do, and their own life. So the idea would be to find a system where all these basic needs are met, but really according to the particular need of each individual, which is a very difficult thing, because how to define what are our particular needs. I'm talking about needs, not desire, really, what we need to live and to do the work we have to do here. So realizing the mother's vision about. So in the light of what we have just tried and which express the essence of the mother's vision for the organization of our life, we saw that the following steps could be taken to ensure that Orville can sustain herself in the future, something which seems to be really making sense today. So that's the various steps that we have imagined, what could be done in order to achieve or to realize a different kind of economy. So the first thing would be the creation of Orville prosperity to provide all the bodily needs in kind. Secondly, unification of all our distribution centers and purchasing services under Portus. Three, development and creation of farms in order to become self-supporting. And we'll see later on why it's important. Four, development and creation of units in order to produce as much as possible our basic needs. Development of the free store. Six, reduction of the use of money and creation of a new system of extent or prosperity coupons. Seven, creation of a network of outside producers, consumers to locate what we need but cannot produce here. Eight, shift in our organization to create a circular economy. And finally, creation of a unity council and organization of the active residence assembly. I don't know if we will talk about this because it goes beyond the economy. But that was part of the former presentation. So we'll go through this point one by one. Orville prosperity, what is Orville prosperity? I think many probably all of us, we have heard about Orville prosperity but we don't really know what it is about. So Orville prosperity was a name that the mother gave in 1968, so from the very beginning. For the service dedicated to provide in kind the essential bodily items needed to live simply, decently and beautifully in Orville. It lasted for years and was the main channel of our economy. Now, just a comment about this. Why did it stop? In fact, it stopped when the struggle with the Schrodinger society started because it was the Schrodinger society which was providing the funds for Orville prosperity. So when this struggle started, they just cut the funds and then suddenly there was no money anymore in Orville and we had to deal with very little. So then slowly, slowly we had to go through different kind of phases in our economy and finally what was introduced. I think it was in the 80s or even late 82. What is the system of maintenance? Which is for some people a kind of salary, but it was, we are just, we are just already, we are already drifting into not a money less economy but to a full money economy. I don't know how to call it but that was really drifting away from what the mother had envisioned. And I don't want to blame anybody but at that time it was really difficult because there was no money. So then that's how the maintenance came into the picture. But what is very interesting is that from the beginning there was among Orvilleans a kind of resistance to go for this and many experiences like seed, common accounts have been created and PTDC and other systems. And I think today we are coming back to this idea of Orville prosperity in order to find an economy where we would not have any circulation within Orville. Everything could be distributed in kind. So at that time to be part of the Orville prosperity wanted to work for Orville and to contribute or to contribute in kind or cash. And the mother gave the spirit of the Orville prosperity through the following message. It is not for comfort and satisfaction of desires that one comes to Orville. It is for the growth of consciousness and consecration to the truth that has to be realized. Unselfishness is the first need to participate in the creation of Orville. And earlier the mother said also Orville will be a city that will attempt to be or strive or want to be self-supporting, which is not autonomous. It doesn't mean that we have to produce all what we will consume here. But in terms of economy and finance, Orville should be self-supporting. And of course we should try to produce and generate as much as possible what is used or consumed within Orville. So she said in Orville one does not have to pay for one's food, but one must offer one's work or materials. Those who have fields, for example, should give the produce from their fields. Those who have factories should give their products or one's labor in exchange for food. That in itself eliminates a lot of internal exchange of money. And for everything, a way can be found. In reality, it should be a township for study, study and research in how to live in a way which is at once simplified and wherein the higher qualities will have more time to develop. That means that people will not need to buy food with money, yet they must earn it. And in this economy, everyone should work at least five hours every day, including Sundays. Working for oneself is not working for the community. I think it's very important to see which kind of dynamic we need in Orville in order to achieve such a thing. If everybody is really working for the community in whatever ways, then we can really create a prosperous and abundant economy. And I think this was the intention from the beginning. So each member of the community should have an activity that corresponds to the needs of Orville. One does not live in Orville to be comfortable, but to grow in consciousness and to serve the divine. So that's what we have seen recently that after many years with the system of maintenance, we see that there is a lot of shortcomings in our organization. And since we have started to explore Orville's prosperity again and to talk about it, we have seen that there is quite a large support from the community to go for this. And especially from the FMC, the BCC, the Service Trust, there are more and more people who are understanding that there would be a need to go for this because it would really create a very different kind of economy where people could feel safe in a way if by giving themselves to the project of Orville, to Orville, Orville in exchange would take care of what they need. So there is no need to think about what will be the future in terms of finance if we need to do anything for the community. So what would be our prosperity if, in fact, I come back to the previous one. So the idea would be, in fact, to replace the maintenance system by the Orville prosperity. What does it mean in reality? It would mean that instead of receiving cash that you use to get a certain number of services, you will get these services for free. And these services, to start with, would cover the Portoose items, what we get today in Portoose, according to our needs, of course. Solar kitchen or other meal schemes, health care, non-dini, water, electricity, gas, telephone, internet, mobility, house maintenance, eco-service, and prosperity coupons that we'll see later. Can I interrupt a little bit? Yeah. I'm distracted. I'm going to go through this after. Yes. So, yes. That's just the beginning. When we talk about the basic needs of Orville, it should cover even more than this. But if we start, we could start with this, which are really the basic, what we need to live. And that would be the spirit of the game. I think this is important to see. There would be no personal property within Orville, no circulation of money within Orville. The aim would be to replace money with an in-kind organization, to build a relationship based on trust and mutual care, to bring about a spirit of real brotherhood, to live simply, but decently and beautifully. Prosperity would be based on voluntary participation. That was the idea first. It would be to try to develop a scheme where people who are volunteers could join. And we could start an experiment with a few, maybe a few hundreds, to see how it works, to fine-tune the way it is organized, and eventually to go for the whole community. But there are different views about this. Some people say, maybe we should go for prosperity for everybody. Whoever works in Orville should get prosperity, whatever work he does. And that could bring also a lot more flexibility, because today you get a maintenance because you do a certain job. So you have the tendency to do one job, one work, and to get the maintenance for this. And very often we see people doing some work or some job, which are not really interesting for them, but just in order to get the maintenance. In this way, that would be different. Whatever you do, then you would get the Orville prosperity, which means that you could have different activities. And that I feel, personally, that it could emulate this idea to work for the inner growth, our inner growth, which is very important. We don't work, I mean, we work for the community, of course, as a service, but it's also in order to develop our consciousness. So each participant would decide what he or she truly needs. That's the thing. When we talk about what we need, it's not anybody we can decide what I need or you need or she needs. That's only each one of us. But this implies a certain amount of sincerity. What are our needs? And the need is what I need to live, to offer my service to Orville, to grow, to do whatever I need. It's not about desire. Based on conscious consumption and goods exchanges, it would be the commonwealth of all the participants and a familial way of dealing with each other. In the idea of prosperity, it's not that everybody will have some accounts and personal statements every month. No, we will have a common budget where everybody should use these facilities, these services according to its own needs and own sincerity. So unification of our distribution centers and purchasing services under Portus. So origins and aims of Portus, we all know Portus. We are all using Portus. But for the people who came later on, they don't really know how it was created. So it's important to come back to the roots of the story. And as you may recall, for those who are here, Portus was initiated in March 1972. So it was like prosperity at the very beginning of Orville. So Portus was initiated in March 1972 after receiving the mother's original encouragement. But everything started when Claire wrote her the following letter. Mother, if one day Orville is to function fluently for need and demand without the internal exchange of money, perhaps the time has come to create that proper channel. We would begin in a temporary building and see how things evolve. And in an additional note given, at the same time, she asked, mother, if this is a work to do and money comes in for it, what should be the name of the bank account? So in those days, all new ideas were presented to the mother through Shamsundar. So this one also. And having read the proposal and follow-up note, Shamsundar remembered later on that he had never seen the mother so happy. And that she said excitedly while pointing her finger in the tapping motion, this is it, this is it. Give me a paper and a pen. And then she wrote, Portus for all. And it was like a kind of mantra, Portus and for all. It's so powerful. It means so many things that we can really see it as a mantra for our economy. And so this is how Portus opened on 28th February, 1974 as a channel to facilitate a new kind of moneyless economy. This is very important. This was the original intention. So it's not functioning this way today, but the channel was created really to be a channel for a moneyless economy. And that, I believe, this is where we should come back. So the first service provided was only for food and basic supplies and was organized in a joyous atmosphere. So I will not go through this. It's more technical. How we could achieve this, make a shift from the actual Portus to the ideal Portus where there would be no circulation of money. But basically, what we would need is first to create a purchasing service for the whole of Oroville. We are having now different outlets which are purchasing separately, different kind of prices, different kind of margins. And in the end, it doesn't make sense at all. So the idea would be to have one purchasing services so we can accumulate all the purchasing, therefore reduce the price, and then distribute within Oroville with all the same codes and name for each item and the same price. Because now it's a complete mess. If you go to Earth, you have a certain code and a certain name for a certain item. You go to PTDC, it's another one. And you go to PTPS, it's again another one. So it's absolutely impossible to make any statistic. Or it's really a big headache. And on top of this, of course, the margins vary a lot. And the cost price also. Yes. Which in fact is Portus. It's just OK. So the mission of this facility would be to provide, of course, the goods at the best price available and to choose items taking into account their quality, footprints on the environment, and their impact on this. This is very important because if you go to some outlets, you find some junk food which are very badly packed and with material which are not recyclable. So when we go to an eco-service and we find so many tons of tetrapac and plastics, I believe that it's not necessary to go for that. If we could make a selection of items which are really eco-friendly and which can be sustainable, that would be much better. So also to re-convert all distribution services to the value of the existing PTDC, but not really this. It's not a model for us. It's just a step. And I think we can really improve all the different services or outlets that we have today. OK, so that doesn't matter. So development and creation of farms. I think this is very important in regards to the city and the galaxy. I will explain why later on. So all this work on prosperity would really start to make sense if we could aim at becoming self-supporting in terms of food production. And not only food production, but in general. To produce locally as much as possible what we need would be therefore one of our top priorities along with securing our water resources. And today we know that this is possible. We have done a lot of researches in terms of water conservation, farming, and so on. It's just a need to coordinate and come together to collaborate in the making of such an economy. So in order to achieve this food security, we need to do the following steps. And it's not an exhaustive list, but I think all the most essential items are there. First would be increase of production on currently active farms. Then develop home, community, and kitchen vegetable gardens. Identify and develop new farm lands, develop forest farming, develop new methods, greenhouse farming, hydroponics, and so on. Develop seed banks to produce all the seeds which are needed. Find lands in more suitable climates because of course we cannot grow, for instance, tomatoes or the whole year. So we could imagine that we would have some farms in places like Ooty or Kode Kanal where you can grow certain vegetables that we cannot grow here all the time. Or we could have some collaboration with some farmers there and do some exchanges with what we produce. Involve more community participation in the farm work. Increase community kitchen, introduce denerty field services. Learn also, of course, how to use and cook local vegetables and foods. Learn to identify the wild edible food and increase our food processing capabilities. For me, this is very important because in terms of our economy, when I see the galaxy, as I said earlier, I see something which is radiating. And when we talk about Oroville and especially about the economy and about farming, I think we need to consider a picture which is much bigger than Oroville. It's Oroville and it's all bioregion. What we have seen is that they are more and more interested in the surrounding villages of farmers. We would like to go for organic agriculture and to collaborate with Oroville so that we could eventually develop a kind of cooperation which could be quite unique. I believe personally that the making of Oroville cannot go without the development of the surrounding villages. I think this is something which is very important and that's what also I think what I understood from what Dr. Doshi said in his speech about the city and the galaxy. So I think this is where we could really collaborate and find a new ground, a new common ground where we could develop a sort of kind of harmony. I see that also it's very much linked to our water resources and water conservation. One of the first things that Dr. Doshi has seen when he came to Oroville was this ancient network of water channels, areas, columns and so on. And he found it quite interesting to see that Oroville was built there. Of course, part of this network has been destroyed with modern agriculture. And it would be really interesting to see that in terms of water conservation there is really a work which is done between, or collaboration which is done between Oroville and the Bayer region. And this of course, because it's the basis for all farming, could lead to a very different kind of development in terms of farming. In the same idea, prosperity, we would need to develop or create new units and services. What we have seen that in the last 50 years, we have created a lot of things in Oroville which are really interesting to produce soaps, candles, EM, natural detergents, closing and so on. And we believe that there should be a study to see what we are consuming here but purchasing from outside while it could be produced within Oroville. So that could be also a work of prosperity and that's where the statistics could be very important to see really what are the items which really don't need to be purchased outside. And that's important because each time we purchase something from outside, it's a kind of leak in our economy. So if we could try to, as much as possible to concentrate on what can be done here instead of going outside and also, of course, that could be an income-generating system because we need to have finance and we could also sell these products, high-quality products outside. Development of the free store, of course, that goes without saying. And yes, yes, of course, sorry. Free store was created in fact very long, when was it created? In 1976. In 1976, okay. So that was a service which was created by a few Orvidians to embrace this idea of a modest economy in kind. So wherever something which is not used can give it to free store and that creates a place where people can just come and take what they need or give what they don't use. And this could be really developed because we all have some tables or armchair or cupboards that we don't use. And if we could create a website where we could just publish what is available or what we need, then that would really facilitate and develop a lot this idea of having a free store fall. Creation of a new system of exchange or prosperity coupons. So far we talked about prosperity. Prosperity as a modest economy where everything that we need would be provided in kind. So that's something which is, I think which needs, we would need to go beyond because sometimes we need to address some needs which are not part of the prosperity scheme. For instance, if somebody wants to learn to play an instrument of music, guitar for instance, he will need to purchase a guitar. He will need to get, not to purchase but at least to get this guitar. Then maybe through a different system of coupons could we extend this possibility to have access to item which are not, I would say, of daily use, I would say, which are exceptional. Yeah, that way we'll see. So I will not go into the thing, but yeah. If you want to have time for questions. It's almost finished, yeah. So that is one idea that was presented to the mother. I think it's in the mother's agenda where Sat Prem at one point spoke about the idea to have coupons and she was very interested by this and she said that we should try to find a way to create such coupons and these coupons would be to give the small extras which give life, variety and pleasantness beyond the Orville prosperity scheme. So there are various way to eventually to develop this. There are the different mutual credit system or others we have to see. I will not go into this because that's not really the subject but that could be interesting. So I think we can stop here because the basics are already outlined and I would like to invite maybe David for a session of question and share because we need to see how a particular economy can have some impact on the design or the planning of a town or vice versa. And I think it's quite interesting because we talk about the crown and the crown was, if I'm not mistaken, conceived to be a place where we would have services. If we consider that all these services mostly would be part of prosperity to develop an in-kind economy, then of course that will have an impact. The whole work with the bioregion also regarding the water conservation, agriculture also could have an impact of how we see the development of the city. So I think that's it for today. I'm sorry it was a bit unarticulated but we had very little time to prepare this so I just improvised as much as I could. We're on the pal of town now. Hello, hello, hello. It's okay, it's okay. So I think the reason I asked Olivier and the prosperity team to put this together, I've mentioned these examples in the last week or so to different people so apologies if you hear that for the second time but the example I've been giving is for instance, if we look at different economic systems and how they manifest different architecture and different urban spaces, I lived in Berlin for quite a while and there's the Karl Marx Allee in Berlin which was the sort of one of the communist regimes sort of main projects that they wanted to show off and a lot of the elite lived in the buildings on either side and it's a very, very wide boulevard with different, a lot of traffic but the main, it's basically designed so they can do military parades on the 1st of May and most of the people can stand on the sides and wave flags and so sort of as a manifestation of what that social economy was about I find that architecture speaks to that sort of history. Now, some years ago when I was visiting friends in London I went to see the King's Cross Yards I think they're called it's actually an old railway yard beside King's Cross Station in London and it's been developed now with new offices there's even an outlook from one of the universities there some lecture theaters and so forth and there's a rather nice public space in the front which borders onto an old canal and there's some sort of stepped seating that you can sit on and this for me is an amazing example of what I would call the neoliberal model so basically this land was sold off in order to give the railways money and it's what in the UK right now is called public-private partnership and so they were allowed to develop a certain density on the condition that they provide a certain amount of public space however the catch is that the public space isn't actually public space it's private space that's being used by the public and if the people who are running that area decide they don't want the public there they can actually ask them to leave and so they've done, there are books been written on this about the reduction of true public space from the 1960s and 70s till today in London and it's just a very interesting study now if we see the development of Auroville over the last let's say 20 years and if we see what's happening on the crown it comes back to your presentation yesterday Rajiv when you see these different, the growth of the different places in Mumbai, Pune, et cetera we see these different patterns and so in Auroville what I, how I would say what we've seen developing along the crown in the last sort of 10 years is this more organic growth it's yet another expression of a certain economic input and a certain way of developing and a certain way of thinking about these things but that's also not the right way it's just random and you get these random buildings as and when we need them I'm not suggesting there was no planning going into it but it was still fairly random so for me this image actually represents something that goes beyond all of those things we need to find ways when Olivier talks about new economy how do we, how do we create a system with no money and yet with no money how do we even build this these are huge conundrums we don't have answers to this but this is for me what we're here to discover what we're here to explore and so the spaces, if this is the crown the spaces that are hinted at in here what I call the choreography of spaces as we move around what do those look like, what do those feel like what does the crown as a space of coming together either people living in the residential zone just coming in here to go to Portous or crossing through the township and going to the what I call the industrious zone to work these are huge questions and I think what we're embarking on today potentially with the dream weaving and the DDP and the years to come is actually an explanation of how that might manifest Mother's dream not just in the model that she helped Roger create but everything Olivier's just expressed with these quotes these things go together you can't take them apart and this is for me also one of the points of the integral yoga it's not called integral for nothing you know we have to integrate all the different aspects of life so anyway I just wanted to give those examples to sort of help ground what we're talking about one thing that the mother said that she was not very keen to see everybody cooking at home she was much more in favour to develop kitchens, collective restaurants and so on so this would imply also a development of a different kind of social life I would say and then of course where should it be in terms of mobility and so on that is quite important there is every day at lunchtime or dinner time everybody comes around the same places to share their meal then it means that I guess that this should be properly well organised and at the proper place so that's important another thing I didn't say that the mother talked about she said my economy but she said I don't know how it will be organised she just gave some glimpses of what she wanted to have but she never said it should be like this or like that apart from creating orbital prosperity and produce later on but there was a big question mark and this I find this she said a lot of things giving the main direction very often she didn't go into the details she left us with the problem to be solved and I think we find this in terms of education, town development, economy and so on we have the general direction but we really need to find ways to materialise these things and for me what is always very important is this aspect of experimentation we cannot mentalise things too much and just say this is the solution we have to go for that, we need to experiment and we need to see how it's really working on the ground Olivier? Can we open for questions now? Yes Ah yes, questions of course Thank you Olivier for that very interesting presentation we're looking at the crown altogether so I feel that we need to really emphasise free public transport on the crown and until now we've not brought in public transport to Auroville but how do you envisage that happening? That's more a question for David but I know that there was some question about for instance to have a tramway or to have some other shuttle and so on I cannot answer to this question I think they will be answered by some people who have some knowledge about mobility like Christo or others I think Christo will talk tomorrow and I don't know Helmut gave a talk yesterday on nobility but is your question therefore related more to how would we finance it Free public transport I think his question is the economic background to that not how would it work City service No, I don't know That should be for all I mean if the principle is to give everything in kind it includes also transport it includes electricity it should include basically everything that we need I can give you an example from Berlin actually because I think the public transport has to be free and in Berlin when I was living there they used to get these stickers that you put on the car it was like a yearly tax sticker that you paid your tax and at the time they were trying to basically add a certain amount of money per person to that tax disk so you had to pay a lot for your tax disk but when you did that the idea was you would get a free one year pass to the underground and the buses so you get a free pass for the public transport but it was included in the price of your disk for your car now what that was aiming to do was if you're six blocks down the road and you want to go for lunch and your natural tendency is to jump in the car and drive there but there's a bus on the same route they wanted to make it that if you've got this pass in your pocket because you've got the car you're more likely just to hop on the bus and go to lunch and come back whereas if you have to pay in each direction on the bus you'll take the car and nix that one, that didn't happen but it's interesting to see again how economy and how our psychology and how we think and how we work and live is fundamentally determined actually by these kind of decisions and even the tax system in that particular instance maybe to answer to this question I think now we are having a discussion within the community about how RVD is organized in terms of trust and so on when we have realized that there is a lot of trust, a lot of services, art services commercial units all this is very complicated so the discussion which is going on now is how to simplify all this and the idea would be to have two verticals one would be for the services and one would be for what we call the revenue income services everything should be considered as services and then if we have this, of course a system of free transport should go with this whatever we call it trust or some organization to address all the to finance all the services whether it's portoes, gas service transport service and so on so that is something which should I think be organized soon if we really want to go for a prosperity system okay guys we are going to take one more question singular how self-sufficient is Oracle in terms of food today? production and how much surplus do you have? we don't have surplus we have minus in fact today I think we produce about 10 to 15% of what we consume which is very little compared to what we could do I personally believe that we could maybe not produce 100% because there are things which are seasonal and which come from outside but at least 100% in terms of the mass and then that could be part of it could be used to exchange with other farms like in Kodekanal or elsewhere that is the idea but I personally believe that this can be achieved only if we we have this collaboration I was talking about before about production, agriculture production within Oroville and with the bioregion that I think could really tremendously boost our production in terms of farming so we are really not touching upon the aspect of you know we are talking about farms outside the city no the farm are supposed to be within the green belt the green belt was not supposed to be only forest but forest and farms now we could have also some farms within the city small community farms small things but for the most of the production it should be within the green belt or the bioregion now if we started looking at the city and we started looking at rooftops and it really started looking at very intense agriculture then if we start talking about food and we say this is a place where people collect for food where you also produce food to a large extent it is processed there it's collected there and then and served out there so that's something that perhaps one should look at more the agriculture is not only in the green belt but it's in the city and that's very much part of the building it's very true and in fact some people have already started this with hydroponic within Orville and that could be really very interesting to have I mean to plan this when we plan the city to have this rooftop gardens and I think even Roger Angé talked about the possibility to have what we call suspended gardens and so on so that's the green should be within the city it should be integrated there alright thank you Olivier and if anybody has any more questions to Olivier don't forget you can write them down on your sheet of paper and we will pass them on to Olivier to answer so our next speaker is Island Island is a consulting arborist educator and forest manager with over 17 years of experience in tree related work he has studied and worked in the UK and Australia but has grown up in part in South India this has provided him with international expertise coupled with local knowledge he runs Treescapes is the steward of a space a sparse forest and is part of the northern forests of Orville so we'll just take a minute to set up I'll introduce a little bit more Hello my name is Island I'd like to say thank you very much to everybody for coming here I think this is really the sort of process that would unify people that we can actually go forward in a positive manner that will be potentially an example for a lot of other communities and the world and ourselves even hopefully I'm going to be speaking about arboric culture and urban forestry arboric culture is the study and management of trees it's with regards to generally more in urban settings it's for smaller amounts of trees so it's not silvery culture it's not horticulture it's not it's not forestry it's generally more in an urban setting so it's the inspection of trees for the risk assessment of trees it's the the U.S.B.O.C. stream oh yeah within arboric culture there's tree pruning there's the assessment of trees for the risk that they pose in all settings in a school you want to inspect a tree to make sure that it's safe that it's not going to fall down on the kids that sort of thing there's also with regards to development to make sure that to identify trees to categorize them to say we're going to keep it we're going to make sure it's included in the scheme this tree is a very common tree it grows by itself it's very short lived it's going to be less less affecting the construction scheme so it it touches a lot of subjects it's all related to trees it even goes into the management of tree nurseries all sorts of things there's a lot of development that's occurred but it's evolving quite a bit in India it's only very recently been introduced but you do see in Hyderabad for example there's signpost saying this is part of the urban forestry scheme urban forestry is the management of trees within an actual urban setting so in cities to make sure for example a lot of cities now in India for example it's got this this goal to reach 33% canopy cover in India where there's a lot of cities that have such goals there's all cities all over the world they have a certain goal of canopy cover so how much if you were to identify if you were to look from the sky would be covered by vegetation that's the canopy cover my notes please the format has changed a little bit yeah unfortunately okay it's fine let's see oh it's linux yes great okay so can I turn this a little bit maybe just so that I'm not standing in front of the screen can I make this bigger you want to see your notes bigger I want to see my notes as big as I can so I don't have to be too close there we go okay so that works pretty well alright hop aha the notes have gone back to small right so like I said my name is Island I've been working with trees for about 20 years now less than 20 years but almost 20 years I work as a forest manager consulting arborist and I've worked as a tree surgeon so I've planted thousands of trees but as a tree surgeon I've also cut thousands of trees so I've dismantled, I've pruned, I've felled about a few thousand trees so it's just to give you that I have a bit of a perspective on planting trees and removing them so it means that when I look at a tree whether it's to plant it or to take it down there's quite a lot of consideration that goes into the process the first thing yes in the question and answers I'd like to go further into that if you'd like we're going to go first to the that's a four part presentation that's going to part one what are the effects of trees I just want to take a really quick survey because I know that there's a lot of education a lot of awareness a lot of more sort of broadening of the subject that needs to occur like I said urban forestry is a very new subject in India as well so please shout out what are the effects of trees sorry? I just wanted to keep a very short thing it's good we're getting a lot of different aspects to it there's a lot more than just shade and aesthetics which is sort of the main story generally so let's go into it we're going to quantify this a little bit so everybody thinks oh yeah it's cooler to stand under a tree how much cooler is it this is a infrared or thermal imaging camera the lighter it is the hotter it is the cooler it is the darker it is so where it's really cool there's a tree where it's really hot it's outside you've got 20 degrees of difference if you were to look at this in summer here you'd probably get up to 30 degrees this is just to show you you can quantify a lot of this a lot of this stuff you can put a monetary value as well onto it if you really want to so it's not just shade it protects from UV rays which protects from skin disorders which a lot of people know in Australia and in a lot of places here less because the complexion of the skin is more adapted to that sort of thing but yeah it's more than just temperature here's a really quick thing that I grabbed from Australia just one tree per year works as 10 air conditioners 2500 litres of storm water it intercepts and absorbs so it stops it from just running into the sea in a case of around here and it grabs a lot of pollutants from the air it's phytoremediation it's cold I'm just going to go very quickly through this stuff all of this is peer reviewed and all of this is part of another presentation that I do which is the effects of trees so this is just a short bit of that so that we can carry on with all aspects that I think are important for today's presentation generally where you've got forest you've got water if you remove the forest you're going to remove the water there's some understanding here that trees deplete the aquifers that if you plant trees then you're sucking the water out of the ground it's contrary actually it's completely the opposite in the case where there's the ground water that's very shallow so it's very near to the surface it can be used for that so it can help in agriculture for example so if there's a lot of water logging you can plant some trees and it'll reduce the water table but it's up to maybe three meters we're not talking about what we're looking at here which is 20 meters plus of an aquifer depth so trees vegetation brings water it does not take water away here's if I were to go into it in my presentation for for water management storm water management so this is what happens when it rains the leaves catch the water they slow it down from reaching into the into the ground which means that if you have infrastructure that has to deal with storm water in a city for example it means you have to you're dealing with less volume of water going it down at one time because it's catching that much water it's slowing it down through it's called through through fall another another thing that somehow people think here that I've heard is that when you have trees next to roads it's going to damage the roads because it makes big droplets going on to the roads actually it slows it down if you've stood under a tree when it's raining you're getting less hit by the rain than if you're in the middle of nowhere anyway this is again proven I can I have a whole list of references if people want it's all peer reviewed I'm not going to go through all of this but basically it's just to say that there's a lot of science that's gone into it and it it takes all the boxes let's say so again more vegetation more water aha so this if we weren't running on a line system this whole page would be covered in effects of trees all of them positive there are negative effects of trees but in comparison you would have a tiny portion which would be somewhat like this and then the rest of the page is positive of trees and vegetation I'm going to go very quickly through one aspect which I think most people don't know but it's the health benefits and it's the for example there's been studies which show that that children and adults have improved concentration rates in schools that have access to vegetation this has been these are big studies that are conducted it reduces the stress of people it improves their happiness it makes them recover faster in hospitals when they've been when they've been sick or injured what does that mean that means people are more productive that means that you need less facilities for health services because there's less people getting sick so you need smaller services because there's less people getting sick at one time which means people are more productive which means the society as a whole is more productive so everybody's winning actually so yeah so if you were to quantify all these things it all adds up it adds up on many many levels in a considerable way none of this is working I'm sorry anyway it's okay so all I wanted to say was most people think of CO2 in aesthetics when they think of trees or there's a lot of that there's a huge thing about CO2, CO2, CO2 CO2 is a very tiny aspect of trees we should be thinking of trees as green infrastructure we think of grey infrastructure we think of blue infrastructure for water management in urban settings green infrastructure is a huge aspect nowadays it's very very prominent all of the world here's a comparison just to quantify things a little bit in a monetary form this is from the US unfortunately we don't have this data yet in India we're getting there this is done with iTree which a system that I'll introduce in a bit but basically this is the amount of dollars per tree per year that the state of Missouri the state of Indiana and state of California that's how much they've calculated they're getting per tree per year so it's in different it's been categorized in different sections this is the big one the top is property or value or other this doesn't concern us in Orville but basically in some places especially in California you can see if you've got trees on your property and you want to sell it it's going to sell for way way more there's that aspect there's other other comprises of a lot of things but if we even take this off and take that off and take that off and we only consider the lower ones we've got storm water number one a huge effect huge effect so we're looking at 70 dollars per tree per year on average so this is not massive trees necessarily this is just you know whatever I don't know what the start of the diameter of the stem is exactly to be fair but you want to look at carbon dioxide this is carbon dioxide compare that to air quality energy and storm water it's minute yeah this is just street trees by the way it's not parks it's not trees in schools it's not trees in people's backyards it's just street trees yeah here we would have different values but the energy is related to that mainly but it's also related to people using cars because it's hot so they go in their car because there's AC otherwise they'll take the bicycle because you're going under a tree it's just there's a lot of things that we take for in that we don't take in consideration you can actually calculate tree return on investment if you're that sort of person there's been papers written on it two to five times seven to twenty times it really depends on what you're looking at how this the scope of your study but it can be huge so how much is it cost to plant a tree and how much are you going to get out of it you're going to get out up to twenty times I would say probably even more it just really depends on how you're doing it if you're doing it really smart basically the main thing to consider when you're planting trees and taking them out is that you're not going to get any benefits for the first see these are the years this is from the UK I've done a lot of work in the UK and but this just this actually works for here because it's here we're looking at the years of the age of the tree here we're looking at the value or the benefits of the trees provide so when a tree is small like this or like this it's providing hardly any benefits so you're planting a tree and if you're going to cut in ten years you've basically gotten zero benefits from it if you cut in twenty years you've gotten zero benefits or very very few if you're starting to look at thirty which is over here or if you're forty or fifty which is kind of where we're at now in Orville then we're just about starting to get the benefits from them so you know we need to keep trees alive so that we get the benefits before they start losing the benefits which is in a few hundred years but it's not much point in planting a tree to just then remove it um yeah so quickly when people say we're going to cut that tree and we're going to replant ten trees it doesn't make any sense at all because you cannot compare a fully grown tree which is providing all these benefits for a tree that's providing zero benefits in twenty years you'll start getting those benefits but for twenty years you can imagine a bank account that's not giving you any money for twenty years so in twenty years it'll be great but for those twenty years you're not going to get anything part two some points to consider trees in urban context in urban settings in the local context of Orville I keep on harping about evergreen trees here we have everywhere in the world you've got evergreen trees and you've got deciduous trees deciduous trees are the trees that lose their leaves at some time of the year in temperate climates it's usually in winter but here it's in the summer when do you want the shade in the summer that's why we want evergreen trees this is just an example of some evergreen trees you've got them in the this is in front of the vehicle service in the town hall and there's they're all over the place but there's some in the muchamandeer they're really nice, they have really nice stems well I'm getting to that the thing with evergreen trees is they grow more slowly so you get smaller trees for a very long time because they take a really long time to grow so a lot of these trees that you're looking around now most of them will be deciduous trees they're the ones that grow fast so people are used to seeing oh that's a big tree that's a good tree the people tree just out there for example wow that grows really fast it's amazing it's huge it's deciduous for five months of the year there are no leaves on it sorry neem is a weird one there's a lot of gradients in nature you can never sort of cut and cut everything up so there'll be some that are deciduous there's some that are brevy deciduous the service tree for example loses its leaves in January, February so just before it actually gets hot so it's actually a really cool tree for that there's a few others like that there's not many the rain tree which is this one which is just here which grows really wide and really big and you see on the way to Chennai along the roads same sort of thing it's deciduous but it loses its leaves only when it's still cool and then in the summer they come again so you've got the shade so there are very those are the two basically trees that do that along with the neem tree which are exceptions to the rule so the thing about evergreen trees is that often much longer lived what does that mean small investment long return because they're going to be around for hundreds of years whereas a lot of deciduous trees they'll last less than 100 years in some cases the work tree last is usually about 25 years maybe 30 40 years a lot of these deciduous trees are much shorter lived the evergreen trees are much more resistant to the storms for example they provide deeper shade they support more life it's got to do with the succession of species if you study forestry you're planting first if you cut a whole forest down for example and you see what comes up to grow it'll be things that pollinate themselves and that seed without insects and without animals and then eventually as the forest progresses you'll get the evergreen trees and they rely on mammals and birds and that sort of thing so if you're planting evergreen trees which you need to plant after you've provided the conditions for them which is what sort of Orville where we're at we've planted a lot of trees that are deciduous to be able to make the conditions for these evergreen trees which then can be able to grow they need a longer establishment time they need better conditions in the beginning but then eventually once they establish themselves they will be in place and they will be much more resistant to changing climates this was taken four years ago I don't know if I'd still be able to get a shot like that with regards to the traffic all I want to say here is that when you plant things closer together then you're you're kind of following the forest model in a way which is kind of what we're doing when we're planting in super urban settings you're always trying to recreate this sort of forest setting in an urban setting which is a very tricky thing it's much more difficult to plant things in urban settings but one thing to keep in mind is if you've got trees closer together you're going to have a higher canopy which means that they're going to go higher for the light to reach the light which means there will be more insulation from the top to the bottom which means you've got it'll be cooler if you've got your trees you know growing up to 5 meters and then they start growing sideways with the branchmen then you're only going to have 5 meters of insulation with the ground if they need to get to 20 meters to be able to get their light then you're going to have a lot more insulation you'll have much cooler conditions the point is that they're more sheltered they're going to be more resistant to storms when they're closer together there's no space in between them so if they move about they'll lock onto the other trees so they're not necessarily going to smash on the ground their roots are also intertwined under the ground you have trees growing next to each other there's a lot of roots intermingling that keeps trees together and obviously easier environmental conditions where there are more trees together where there's more shade so the ground stays much longer there's more microorganisms in the ground it's more able to percolate the water so it's just a much more alive system if you've got one tree and you've got a desert in between another tree for example along the crown in front of the library we used to have a service tree you had 20 meters and another service tree so you've basically got a desert in between which is really not helpful for these trees they're very very tough trees conditions but it's not ideal for them this is what it looks like planting trees in super urban settings it's possible absolutely costs are phenomenal it's important to take much more into consideration the utilities so the grey infrastructure along with the green infrastructure but here you can see this is really really smart planning you're looking at you've got a little drain you'll have drains in here that goes into there it's a whole system that works you've got root protection you've got barriers that protect between this and that but this is just to give you an idea of what it looks like so it is possible to do it but it's a whole different story and maybe we'll be doing this in the future at the moment we're not doing it it's just to give an idea that these things do happen one thing that needs to be considered when you put trees in these conditions is that if this was its only rooting volume then your tree would be probably much smaller than it looks like right now because one of the major constraints of trees in urban settings is the root soil root volume so this is a calculation it's a you know it's not perfect but it basically tells you that you need 50 cubic meters for a large tree to grow so what does that mean tree roots generally go and I'll show you a slide next they only go about 60 centimeters into the ground so 95 percent of tree roots will be at 60 centimeters or above or from the ground level to 60 centimeters down they won't go further down because there's no oxygen so they'll be so they usually spread out a lot more so what does that mean that means if you're looking at 50 cubic meters by 10 meters 5 meters by 10 meters that's how much a big tree needs to grow healthy if you've got trees that are in sections that have you know if you have one tree here and one tree there and they can share that soil volume then you can reduce the soil volumes because in nature there's a lot more cooperation than we think actually so this just gives you a bit of an idea so what happens to this area here well it has to be protected from compaction because when you've got compaction you have reduced oxygen that can reach into the ground you have the pore spaces which are reduced which means it doesn't get oxygen in trees also need oxygen they need to respire, they use energy like we do they use exactly the same process actually and you have reduced air spaces and you have reduced water if you have compaction this is a healthy soil you can see the roots are going this is just representative you can look at the canopy yeah so moist lots of nutrients not compacted hey it works this is a non-healthy soil you remember where this was? look at that, there's the roots there's the roots and there's the full picture okay so it's important that the soil is protected from compaction so in urban settings it's a whole different story than in forest settings in forest settings you can walk around and you'll notice it's really soft if you start going around here you'll notice it's actually really really hard and that's means that there's compaction I use the British standard for the work that I do it's the sort of qualifications that I've got are using that when you're protecting when you're considering developing or working around trees you will calculate the stem diameter of a tree at 1.5 meters which then gives you the root protection area so that's the area that shouldn't be damaged within the area of a tree that's 12 times the diameter it depends on the tree it depends where the roots are going it depends on the soil but it's just a broad figure that gives you a benchmark again because the roots are only going down about 60 centimeters the majority of them so you need to think of a 12 meter radius of roots that need to be protected again it varies very much, it varies also on the species but it's something to keep in mind like I was saying to avoid compaction this is how you would see under the pavement in the urban setting so what is this stuff it's kind of like Lego blocks and they get stacked and you'll have another layer under and so you've got utilities going around but basically it's all to stop it from getting compacted and in these systems I mean you've got really high tech systems nowadays in this particular system you can get 90% of this space here is actually soil so there's a huge amount of soil which is what you're trying to do there's a lot of different systems there's the Amsterdam soil which is another system where you're mixing a lot of blue metal into the soil so you're making sure that you can't compact the soil and in between you've got just loose soil except when you do that then you have lots of rocks which means you have less soil volume so here you've got a maximum amount of soil rooting volume in a minimum amount of space if you're putting trees in London you've got it's the same thing, we humans have to build up well for the trees they're doing the opposite they're making these root spaces going down these are strata cells this is from green blue urban it's these guys up here but you can get them in India there's a, I forget the name but it's available it's obviously not something you buy all the time it's really expensive stuff it's also controversial because it's plastic this particular one is made out of recycled ocean plastic waste you decide whatever you want these things are incredibly tough I saw this picture on the green blue urban I couldn't help myself, I'm sorry so it's resistant to compaction it's actually resistant to a lot more than just a JCB you can actually make roads with this stuff so you can put your tree you can put the road, you can have this stuff under it and it won't be compacted you can have lorries driving on it and the trees are there this all ties into appropriate management of trees which means we're not damaging them unnecessarily this is in Orville this is where we're at this is the reality of the situation we are digging trenches you know within well well within the root protection area we are damaging the the stems directly this has just peeled all of that what does it mean it means that we're going to end up with green infrastructure that's not providing the services that we're wanting the ecosystem services so we're going to have to replace them we're going to have to spend more money than we're saving for that this is an example so this is not judging this is just showing what it is so what does this do it makes it structurally unstable so luckily this vengae so this is taracarpus marsupium which is a timber species which is from around here I can't remember if it's calimardu or pilimardu it's one of the two we've chopped structural roots that have removed its tensile strength the tree is leaning like this and we've removed this that makes it structurally unstable which means it can fall down it's a liability now it's no longer an asset so if somebody is driving by and it falls on their heads suddenly we've got a huge problem or the person that's there has probably a much bigger problem or no problems anymore at all physiologically impaired so that means that its health is impaired you're chopping off huge parts of its anatomy a lot of trees store their energy in their roots in their root systems so this is stored energy that's gone and obviously now it has to spend energy to regrow this stuff the timber rate what people don't realize is that you can do this and in a lot of development schemes that's what happens is that the contractors come whatever somebody likes the tree they build the house right next to the tree the tree is still standing when everything is done and dusted and they're gone 5 years later the tree starts declining 10 years later the tree is dead that's because a lot of stuff when you're looking at trees takes a really long time to happen so what's going to happen here there's going to be decay that's going inside here and eventually it goes into the stem and depending on there's a whole host of different types of fungi and bacteria they all have very particular strategies some of them go for the inside of the wood some of them expose sapwood some of them go for under the roots it all depends on the strategy of the fungi just like everybody's got a different sort of business strategy but basically this timber which could have been an asset for Orville in the future could become a liability and we won't even get any timber out of it so we're saving a few hundred rupees and we're wasting fifty thousand rupees or whatever it is that's just a random figure for the long term gain that far outweighs the short term cost reductions this is what happens these are the negative effects of trees this is in the UK this is I don't know what it is exactly but it's got little kids this is why tree inspections were made mandatory in the UK at some point a big tree fell on a major intersection and killed a few people and suddenly people started saying well it's really obvious that this tree is going to fall down there's no reason why it should stay here it doesn't mean you can you can't predict every single tree every single tree that's standing has a certain level of risk the idea is that we've got an acceptable level of risk in the UK that means one in ten thousand chance of falling down which you can try and figure out what that means but it just means that if it's really obvious that a tree is going to fall down it's called the duty of care basically this is Quillipallium this is what happened after this cement road got put in right next to this tamarin tree I don't know if you know you can recognize it this is where the guy that's been making leather shoes for the last I don't know how many years, decades this is the main center in Quillipallium all these roots were just chopped straight off so there was no more tensile strength the compressive strength got impeded by the decay that occurred within and it just fell straight down there we go, whatever I don't know how that tamarin tree was but it's needless destruction it can be easily avoided basically or in this case it depends it's always costs versus it's not black and white it's saying it's black and white a lot of the time it's very difficult to make the decision but we need to think about how much value this was bringing to that area in comparison to how much this road is bringing to the area there's a huge amount of traffic now so it might be that the road is more important I don't know this is just to show that there are a lot of ways that we can work around trees without damaging them and it's a pneumatic excavator so it blows out air at Mach 2 through a nozzle I've been trying to get one of these through a research project to actually look at how the roots around here look like because nobody has any idea actually that much but basically you end up with this sort of result so the roots are unaffected and the gray infrastructure is unaffected and you can make trenches so it's a nozzle that's attached to a massive air compressor which we have one of actually in the water service now and so we could be doing this sort of stuff when we want to dig trenches where we know that there's some places you can dig with the JCB there's no trees around you can go really quickly and other places closer to the tree you could be using this maybe some of you are also aware of this this is a way to it's called trenchless technology you're digging around you can dig around whatever you want so it's just to say that you know there's alternatives to just making trenches part three so this is the survey that we did with regards to the right of way so it's an agricultural survey about the rights of ways with regards to the crown and regards to the ring and the radials just to give people an idea of what's there what does it mean so this was done very quickly in about a week a whole bunch of us got together some areas were surveyed others were not I'll get into that yeah this is the crown these are the areas where we surveyed and the radials so there's a whole report I'm happy to share it with everybody there's different aspects to report all of this all of what I'm showing today will be available for people to have so the presentation the reports that I've been referencing to the references if you want them please ask the purpose of the report was to quantify the tree cover present and destroyed within the proposed crown right of way specifically and also to have a look at how the effects within the ring and radials would also be there I wasn't too sure whether to keep it right of ways or to expand so in the end I did which is why probably it's missing the other bit here highlight alternatives that I've been proposed there's the proposed development to clear all the rights of ways requirements 16.7 4 to 20 meters wide on the radials and the ring right of way is 21 meters wide limitations is we had a very short amount of time so there may be some stuff which is not super accurate but it's as accurate as we could make it within that limitation what I would like to say is a project with this sort of impact should have appropriate tree surveys, impact assessments and related studies before just going ahead these are the findings so this is the crown right of ways this is what's already been destroyed so that's nearly 900 trees in dark alley and the youth center in bliss forest number of species nothing's been destroyed on the ring and radials yet hopefully let's see youth center destroys trees the alternatives have been employed so I'll show you the alternatives in a moment in comparison so we've got 186 trees we've got 48 trees we've got 44 species okay here I haven't but in dark alley there'd be 88 instead of 712 this is because there's a lot of areas in dark alley of natural regeneration going so that's with evergreen species which is really dense it's a it's maturing basically but this is the amount that would be if you were to clear for the entire from the entire stretch of dark alley this is not just the 80 meters that's been done what's been done so far with the JCB is 80 meters by 7.5 meters more or less and that's taken these many trees out including understory if you were to follow the other way you'd be doing that including the entire stretch okay existing trees that would be destroyed following the current proposal on the crown so it's 4586 including some understory the reason to include the understory is to give a more balanced view but it's broken down further down in the report so that it's not just I'm not just giving a random number there's actual reasoning how we came to that number and it's very conservative actually 30 minutes sorry I didn't hear the 30 minute one I'm at 45 and I'm at how many slides 32 or 54 oh dear okay so let's go through it quickly now integration should have happened the alternative proposals have a lot of merit there are a lot of mature trees that have been removed that were actually planted as avenue trees on the bliss area for example so they were more than 20 years old they were planted along where the crown was marked before there's no integration of vegetation the proposed projects all assets are wasted it's financially and ecologically more viable to integrate vegetation development plans compared to replanting everything as mature specimens provide significantly more benefits than newly planted trees so this has been proven on development schemes where you have trees you're much better off trying to protect them during the development it's much more worth it in the long run than flattening everything doing the development and putting in new species new plants there's a lot of trees that are under the 45 minutes you said we're at okay there are a lot of trees that fall under conservation status along this area a lot of them are not even entered in so they don't have a status they're not even on the list in the IUCN which is like where you find endangered, vulnerable species critically endangered and all that they're not even on there so it's not to say that they're all rare it's just to say that a lot of this data we don't even have yet so on an international basis a lot of them are under CITES and some of them fall under the scheduled timber Tamil Nadu forest act of 1882 okay this was the alternative of Darkali you can see it deviates but not by much again if you want to recap on that this is the youth center this is a study that I did for TDC commissioned by TDC within the residential zone that was with you guys this was also in the residential zone this is luminosity I think realization prayatna is over here so this is just to consider the trees within that development project for structures that would be built and this was when we were commissioned to do the study for the three meter access for the HT line along the bliss and YC stretch which during the EIA the recommendation was to follow the road this was a three meter wide thing the reality so what I'm asking here is we're considering where structures would go but we can we also do that where infrastructure will go and roads we're talking about infrastructure aren't we anyway we're talking about green infrastructure and grey infrastructure so we need to weigh them up we can't just say well green infrastructure doesn't matter grey infrastructure is really important that's all I'm saying so this was a three meter access we're actually looking at a 16.7 meter wide right of way now so I don't know why we did a study for a three meter access when we're actually talking about 16.7 why we asked to do that like I said there were some avenue trees that were planted along that stretch they're gone now they can't be replaced a lot of these trees that we're talking about here a lot of the evergreens certainly you can't buy them in nurseries you can buy them locally sometimes you can buy them in orville nurseries it depends on who's been sowing what but you certainly can't buy them of any significant size you won't be it's not able to purchase them they are not available so you can't compare them to lamp posts if you were to if this was full of lamp posts and we would have decided hey we're not going to smash these lamp posts right we're going to move them or we're going to okay we can destroy them but then we can buy them again we can't buy those trees again so all I'm pointing to here is we have a lack of understanding of the asset values of what we're talking about here and that's not a bad thing it's just a choice that we're at no? I mean it's not great this is the study that we use to figure out what we've got along the ring and radios this is I tree canopy it's been developed by David Gnowak of the USDA it's been used all over the world it's been used in New York it's been used in London to identify the canopy cover of these cities it's been used in many other places basically it uses random sampling method to to show you a Google image satellite image of an area and then you basically say what's there is it a tree is it soil or bare ground is it an impervious road you can decide the data that you're looking at so basically there was hardly any grass there was hardly any impervious buildings most of it is canopy cover so tree or shrub or soil or bare ground I used 450 points which gives me a certain accuracy so the final result was that we have 69.56 canopy cover in that area plus or minus 2% this is what's generated automatically from this report from this program it's a free program that's been that anybody can access this is on the web browser that you do this provided by the US government basically these figures are using US statistics but they can be applied to get a rough idea basically you're looking at 24 million rupees worth of CO2 stored in trees it talks about the air pollution benefits these are the existing trees so basically the reason I wanted to use this is because we couldn't survey the place we didn't survey too much work we've got other things to do also but it gave me an idea it gave me a comparison to be able to then calculate how many trees we were looking at what sort of vegetation which ended up me getting to 154,000 trees including shrubs so 5,268 of trees that are above 12 cm in diameter from that I can give you calculating that it's 69% canopy cover so it's just to give people a rough idea I didn't do any quantification with regards to the costs that we're removing if we were to remove this but they are quite significant I did a really rough thing last night on my phone saying oh maybe that'll be an idea you're looking at 10 million rupees 2 million to 10 million rupees depending on how you want to look at it plus or minus this is a super rough calculation okay other perspectives this is a quick from a different point of view this is a galaxy concept this is a galaxy concept with the parks this is existing land use with regards to forests this is something that Laura Davis and myself worked on very briefly we were trying to have been for years trying to go into a proactive stance with regards to the forest group so that we're actually able to look forward rather than just what's there and being reactive so far in Orville a lot of what we do is all reactive management we're not doing proactive management so this is kind of looking in that direction it's just to give an idea it's to give an idea to us also so that we have an idea of what's there what do we do, what should we do where are we these are the zones for these are the waterways so obviously there's a lot of water going down there this is to show that you can have significant amount of water here also this is all sheet water I'm guessing you had the water presentation ready by Giulio or by Gilles so you're probably familiar with this there's a big percolation zone around here if I remember right so it's just basically to integrate what does the galaxy concept look like what does it look like based on what we've got what we've got land use what makes sense from a runoff point of view from percolation point of view we're better off having vegetation where the water goes into the ground instead of putting a building there you make it so that the water percolates and also from wildlife corridors or habitat corridors so that we're a city that has a canopy cover that's already in there you can look for Tampa it's there its density is 1,300 people per square kilometer this is the capital of Kerala I don't know what the density I don't know what the canopy cover is there but it looks significantly more their density is 4,500 people per kilometer per square kilometer here including the green belt so if we're not separating the city from the green belt we'd be getting 2,500 per kilometer per square kilometer so it's just to show that we can't have green and we can't have people and we can't have population and we just have much better living conditions from an environmental point of view finally we're at the end I was counting one minute per half a minute per slide for some of them so trees are my main thing here is that trees are assets in the form of green infrastructure and should be considered as such it's very simple it boils down to that I think we have a social responsibility to clarify what we're talking about because I think we're talking about different things even though we think we're talking about the same things people talk about green people talk about canopy cover people talk about the city of the future what does all of that mean so we have a social responsibility we've got social scientists that can figure it out that we can actually see that we're actually on the same page do we need to do we want open spaces do we want dense spaces do we want a combination of the two do we want gradients from super wild forests to super manicured lawns do we want to see something in between do we want to prioritize form or do we want to prioritize function or have a bit of both what does a park mean in Orville I'm sure it means a very different thing to everybody thank you that's it okay so we have time for a couple of questions before we head into tea break so Mona you have a question we're just prioritizing the dream living architecture Islam thanks a lot first time I'm seeing your presentation very interesting I just was wondering how do you go through Indian cities like did you cringe every time you see a tree on the road what happens because when I go through Chennai and I see all these trees embedded in concrete I've seen trees in the temple embedded in concrete what happens when you go to a city and you see beggars all over the place but they look happy seriously they have green leaves they're all venerated we're in societies where we have to try to make the best of the situation and so the reality is what it is what do you do with that reality do you go home and cry all day or do you just try to do your best and move on that's all I can say because people chopping the trees to maintain the electric lines everybody's losing they're doing it in it's more work it's less long-term management I mean it's more long-term management it means they're structurally unsound it's a mess so that's why we're trying to bring education in this subject but it'll take a while I think I agree your transition is really like the ideal situation but I think like human beings like trees also like adapt everywhere we just adapt we live in cold climates minus 20 to plus 50 you know and we still flourish so I'm not saying this is really good but I guess everywhere we'll just have to in for our will we'll have to find some kind of compromises or maybe compromise is not a good word adaptation this is the best case scenario this is the worst case scenario let's try to aim for as much as we can but we're not going to be there but it's good to know that's where we can aim at but yeah there's a lot of costs involved especially in urban settings you're going to have really high costs in some cases it doesn't make any sense it really depends on the situation just to say that we are prioritizing the questions from the dream weaving architects hi Iceland so I am actually all of these lectures many of them are new to me so I'm actually for me to see the level of expertise that we have been done before from the mobility yesterday to the water to energy and to this work on trees and the green infrastructure has there been any integrative design process before in which five, six of these multidisciplinary expertise sitting on one table and trying to find where is the space that works for all of these systems or this didn't happen before so this is my understanding I think this is what we should be doing now yeah okay thank you it's a pioneering maybe one more question thank you a couple of years back Johnny and Jesse produced the citizen one play did you see that citizen one citizen one yeah this one had a theatrical portrayal of what is happening right now with the road and the trees so and the conclusion of that play was that we must start transplanting trees one of the conclusions was that so in that framework how many of the trees that we felt could have been transplanted and what is the how do you decide what tree of what age what height what is the criteria the reality is we don't know which is why over a year ago I wrote a project of the project coordination group to get a tree transplanter made which we've just gotten the funding for now so with this we're going to be able to identify starting on a small scale what can be transplanted relatively small so we're not looking at tiny tiny trees but a little bit of that that's already in place so that we've got a sort of reference but there are some things that you just cannot transplant even if they're this small so it's a question of understanding the species understanding the condition that they're in and and eventually the you can transplant really big trees if you go on YouTube you can see 250 ton transplantation where they take rain trees and they transplant them these massive machines and hydraulic systems to lift the whole thing the thing is those trees you can transplant a lot of trees here will have tap roots so if you cut the tap root there's a very good chance that you can't transplant them so a lot of the trees that we've got here I don't know that's why we've got this thing we need to study we need to make these studies to be able to see what's possible and what's not so we're there that's where we're at so yes so we're slowly running out of time and there's one more thing that we have to do before the break I think Iceland will stay for tea sure and anybody who wants can ask him a question then and also don't forget you're always welcome to write your questions down on the paper and we will send them to Iceland as well so this is one thing regarding yesterday's presentation Tuan has asked us to read a statement about some corrections from his presentation so I will just read out the text that they sent us so Tuan and Tuan would like to rectify a statement made yesterday during the presentations on energy and electricity distribution the total number of wind turbines is not five as stated yesterday but six Varuna Auroville a unit of the Auroville Foundation has two turbines one in Tamil Nadu with a wheeling arrangement one in Karnataka with an energy selling arrangement Varuna Private Limited through partnerships has three turbines in Tamil Nadu one turbine in Karnataka with energy selling arrangements it should be noted that although these wind turbines are not physically connected to the Auroville internal grid the energy produced helps offset grid energy in terms of CO2 emission reductions so they just asked us to read out that rectifying statement and with that we can now move into the tea break yes a 15 minute tea break will be back at 10.30 with a presentation from the line of Goodwill team thank you very smart girl everybody could start coming back in we would like to start on time two minutes okay so I think we can start our next presentation will be by the line of Goodwill team we have here Torkil, Judith, Jaya and Louis and I will hand over to Torkil I can use this one you can hear me on behalf of the team I will just introduce the project a bit and then I will hand it over to other of the members I'll first talk a bit about why this project came up because it's actually a project that has taken nearly five years by now a lot of people have worked on it also a lot of architects from Auroville Helmut, Lalit and Shalaya have been part of this team and Anupama has been very much part of the team also external architect companies from Mumbai have been part of the team so a huge amount of work have gone into this it's maybe also a project that has been misunderstood a bit in the sense that this team have only tried to prepare the ground for this we have come out of drawings we have never ever gone into buildings a lot of people in Auroville already have imagined the buildings and have an opinion about it but we have never ever said how it should be designed we have always meant that this should come up for an architect competition so it's never been anybody else that's maybe the other I understood for some other architect that they thought that it was Anupama who's going to build this it's just to make few things very clear maybe when I tell the story here I will just run a drone movie V2 this is actually from the visitor centre side this is just the parking lot if you just run it now it takes 5 minutes it's a drone movie that actually moves along where the line of good will is supposed to be it's what's interesting when you see the movie I can tell it is is even if you go up in 50-60 meter height with the drone here you actually don't see any buildings in Auroville and you don't even see Matrimandia which actually comes to a little bit of surprise to many people who think that Matrimandia is so visible even in 65 meter height you will just see a little yellow top on top of the trees and one of the reasons is also this area is actually 10 meter lower than Matrimandia this project actually came out from different angles and it was actually merging different parts of Auroville actually all the aspects of Auroville in a way now we are actually crossing into Aurodam area and this time it was taken last year I think after the rainy season so Aurodam is actually full of water so 5 years ago I come from the non-generating activities I worked a lot with the units in Auroville and we saw a need that the existing visitor center had done a good job with the money they had but there was no space enough for all the other units and actually at that time they took a lot of units out of the showrooms in the visitor center because there were too many units so there was a lot of pressure for units to establish themselves elsewhere and that Auroville did not allow them any place so there was an idea to make a center at the Kulapallium road on Auroville land but actually in outside Auroville and we worked a lot on it, it was a center that would cost 25 lakhs and give a lot of space for a lot of units but eventually we saw that might put all this energy into developing something outside Auroville and then we came it was actually Nicole from visitor center who told there was actually an old plan that the lines should actually be a new kind of welcome center so and then we also made people from matrimandias who was actually at that time working a lot that they had to design the new reception center that the new the only entrance to matrimandia garden and will be have a reception center and that was already part of that line it has always been planned that it was part of line number one and Louis from the habitat here was just finished sonship at that time and he said I want to do something much bigger so these three energies came together tried to work on this because you could in some way say it was a bit stupid because line number one is by far the longest and by far the biggest and so why start with that one it's a little bit why do that but it's actually because it integrates all the aspects of Auroville the welcoming party integrates the living zone, the habitat center and it integrates matrimandia and that building for matrimandia is extremely important and Judith will tell about that a little bit later because it is actually the we are coming into it's it's beautiful in the morning it integrates all aspects of Auroville this building and it's also the main corridor for all the traffic in it's the only line that actually touches the outside and it's also the line that holds all the visitors we have close to one at least before corona and we will probably come back again we have close to one million visitors now and they all have to follow that line in so it's that intersection between this line and the ground road is of course of very out most importance so we started working first we approached the existing TDC at that time and said we just want a site permission and of course they didn't want to do that they said you can't do that you were there and we said why not because we just want to build a master plan so why not give a site permission but after some time we came to some kind of agreement that we had an agreement that we could at least do a study of this we found it a little bit funny that it was called a feasibility study and we found a little bit funny that you had to do a feasibility study of the master plan but that's how it came out so we made first a study made a huge study of all the data and afterwards TDC asked us to take a consultant from outside and Anupama together with Badli Boy a large architect company in Mumbai came in and they did another study which from Mumbai architect site says this is actually the DDP for this area we started out quite well for TDC in the sense that they actually arranged the meeting with the Arodam is where the building crosses through maybe I'll just tell you here this is a kind of you can see this is matrimandia we have put the leg in so we are a little bit ahead and this here is this is the visitor center parking so this is where this line goes and this is the reception center which is needed and here you have the crown roads so this is where you see it all in a way so the huge study was done I came to take this is Arodam it all goes through TDC arranged the meeting with Arodam people and of course they were not very enthusiastic about having this building going through Arodam but actually they didn't resist they actually told us clearly that if that's the part, if that's the master plan okay but they wanted to be part of it and they wanted to have a say in it which is okay so it actually surprisingly started very good but then I think TDC got a bit of gold feed and they didn't know what to do and ended with a lot of work and actually not in much it actually got blocked in many ways it's still there I think the whole DDP is more or less made I think Judy will tell more about because that intersection is of course very critical because you will have one million people who have to come in through this line or at least and they will have to cross the ground road in a way that they don't go into it because these people are actually supposed not to flow into Orville as such but I think you will take that up and I don't think I have so much more right now anybody has question for this because that would be to take it at this step then Judy will come afterwards and tell because a lot of the work has been seen from the matrimony aside anybody has question Judy will tell about that and do we want to bring one million visitors to the matrimony I think a lot of people ask that question you will answer that maybe we wait till after Judy's location okay then we wait okay so good morning everybody I am Judy that's so happened that these projects are very close to my heart there was a time when we were being asked at Matrimondier to find solutions to what we were going to do at the point where the lake was finished and we had to find a way to remove all those temporary buildings that are right now on the site of Matrimondier we were very much being pushed by planning to find a way to deal with the access aspects of that work so in the design of Matrimondier there is this aspect which is right there which is the reception pavilion which is part of the very original plans from Roger of the Matrimondier and we also have so a reception pavilion implies that you are going to receive there all the people who are coming to Matrimondier but years and years of experience as he rightly mentions 1 million visitors it shows us that we absolutely do not want to be receiving at this point these kind of visitors that's not how it can possibly work so in our vision of the thing we were trying to figure out first of all the viewing point that exists at the moment a large number of visitors will disappear into the lake so something has to happen also to replace the viewing point we spent many weeks trying to find a way to transit all these visitors and every time we looked at the map we were told you can't go there it's the line of good it's the line of force number one it's off limits it's marked on the master plan and in the moment there was a moment where there was a sort of epiphany which I realised but that's exactly what we do have to use this is the way that Roger has actually implied within the master plan that there is access from the ring road all the way to Matrimondier but obviously it's a very sensitive situation so we immediately said right now the majority of visitors are received and filtered at the visitor centre as time went on of course the gateway project came into view and we merged on that but for us we were just thinking visitor centre right now for us or pro-covid was a bit of a makeshift we were always a little bit rubbing shoulders there to deal with all this vast number of visitors from Matrimondier so what we needed was a purpose built hub to do the kind of work that we're doing at visitor centre that was self-contained and in the vision of the line of force one we envisaged it somewhere here beyond the Auradam Parenbroke land with bridges crossing the Parenbroke land and there we would have a proper hub for filtering and dealing with the people what it implies within the whole line of force one is that the viewing point problem could and perhaps should be resolved by simply putting all this viewing upon the roof of this building because the building is supposed to be one or ground plus one which is the same which is low at the Matrimondier end and high at the Ring Road end so we thought well if we can channel all visitors onto the roof there there will be a good viewing point for them and they won't be impinging in any way on the rest of Auroville they'll be really canalised but then we have also the visitors who really we are accepting to come into the garden of unity the park of unity into the Matrimondier itself so how to deal with them because there this is big filtration will be happening here and then how are we going to get them there replacing all these dusty buses that we're running up and down all the time and making something that's we wanted to create what we call a public transit system for these visitors that was already in its conception a system that would calm people down from the state in which they arrive in the car park to the readiness to enter the park of unity and to arrive in the chamber in a frame of mind that is conducive to the very best reception for them so we actually we weren't satisfied with any of the things we saw of trams and I don't know we saw all kinds of things so we even actually had a little thought and we even came up with a design of our own it's only a concept design there's no engineering in it which would give people a sense of calming down of separation this is very crucial when we think about where we're intersecting with the crown because we don't want a level crossing we already see what it means to have a level crossing now so this means that at least at ground plus one maybe even ground plus two there will be a flyover it will be bridged the crown will be bridged so that people can the viewing points were envisaged to have one on the roof just this side of the crown the outer side of the crown and the second one that other yellow spot that you can see there these two yellow spots actually indicate viewing points on the roof so the system would be that visitors even visitors who are even interested to arrive all the way inside the the Park of Unity would be being channelized at ground plus one visitors going to viewing points would have to be well integrated and design their means of transit to arrive at the viewing points and as this entrance this bridge across the lake here is the only entrance for people coming to the Park of Unity and to Matrimondir here at the crown where the intersection is there has to be an entrance at that point at ground level for all the residents, whoever they are within Orville to make their journey by foot or maybe I don't know moving sidewalk or something to arrive at the reception center the reception pavilion where a sort of last reception is made hand over your bags hand over your cell phones you're lacking mobility here you can get the electric car things like this means of accessibility all these things would be set up there within the reception pavilion itself but the reception pavilion is definitely an integral part it's very nice if you look at the drawings that Roger made for the reception pavilion that he has little railway lines going through it so he had the same idea that we did about some sort of public transit system taking people to the reception pavilion so I only other thing that I really want to express about the whole of the line of force is that in our dreaming you are dreaming but we were dreaming is that this building should be incredibly environmentally sustainable it should be totally ecological not only when it's finished but the way it's built we were very very clear about this we don't want to do this in an unconscious way the whole thing should be we should be putting our very highest aspirations not only into what we produce but how we produce this structure and we were very this was a really deep aspiration of ours that it should be created in a way that we would all be really proud of and not be ashamed of it you can hear me I just want to add something about the gateway because as as Judy says the gateway was also supposed to handle all the guests coming in it was actually supposed to be an active or a kind of intelligent fielding which says that only people who has a need to pass this point should pass on we actually did a lot of work which we also will hand over to the dream weaving team we saw a big need to make a business of policy in order that we don't have much idea about how we will handle all this you ask this question why do we have these one million people coming in I think from our side we saw it also from a dementia side says it is a public place you have to allow Indians to come into this place but you have to do it in such a way that it makes the least difference but you can't just block it off and say no it's not possible so the gateway was meant like a lightning rod it should actually take as much energy from this inflow because we already now have had before weekends where 10,000 people are coming and this is a huge amount of energy which is like that so the whole idea of the gateway was that it should be a much better visitor center with showcasing whatever order we could do it will also plan to have a hotel because actually Matrimandia's idea now is that people who actually get access to the chamber have to stay one day more so that means these people actually have to have a place they could stay in the guest houses but in many cases it would be better let them stay there and the idea was actually that was our dream was that the top of this building would be a meditative garden where you actually can spot Matrimandia from a distance but it was meant also to take these people's energy out you don't have to go in it's enough to go there and see what is there you don't have to penetrate all the way in so it was actually meant in many ways to handle this energy which can be difficult to handle but which we have to handle because we can't just close it out so we have to find a way to handle it I think that's all for now I don't know any ideas about maybe I'll just add one more thing one of the main problems in these very lines of all this line is actually 800 meter long and of course we cannot imagine to build it in one go and that has been one of the big planning problems is how to buy that because it has to be built in phases and we saw first a phase of building a reception for building and the gateway and then it will be part of the habitat but it will take many years to build it and it has to be chopped up in pieces and it will be different architect who did it so the whole work for this line of force was actually to make the comprehensive study of this and then hand it over to many many different parts because it might be built in five we already imagine five sectors but there might be many many different architect working on it but the final building should be kind of working together but that has been one of the big problems and I think that has been one of the problems of these lines that if we had a lot of small building it would be much easier for us to chew so the lines have always been a bit of a problem to chew into Hello my name is Louis for the people who do not know me and I am a developer I have been doing Citadine and Amazon Dijon and Sunsheep and Terra Matta and really when I finished Sunsheep I felt the growth of the population is going so slow that's really we have to go fast and to start by big project and so the first phase of the line of goodwill will be for 500 people and there will be simultaneously different phase because all the line of goodwill will be for 8,000 people and we need really to have a common live in Oroville with Oroville spirit and the idea that we have the experiment of Citadine as well as Sunsheep is to have a lot of common space shared as we have the art center as we have a cafeteria a Citadine workshop to maintain the place he could have a conference room he could have a kindergarten it's almost a city in the city the common space for 8,000 people will be developed according to the growth of the place and of course we will work a lot on the materials that we are going to use to have the maximum of ecological material we are planning of course to have all the roof partly of solar panels and urban farming to be able to feed the people living there to be able to give the energy from the solar directly to give there and of course we will recuperate the rainwater to do this so it's very important to go on this and of course the habitat will pass over the crown road so there will be a link between the habitat and the crown road for the crown road because the existing road which passes by which actually lies in the lake now might come down very fast if matrimandia proceeds fast if the crown road comes they probably want to take that road down because that road that passes matrimandia fence and the existing entrance have been a pain in the arse sorry to say like that for matrimandia long time because of the dust so they would like to take it down as fast as possible so the crown road would very fast make a change if it came and the other thing I would say about this line that even if that junction is very tricky and very important it doesn't come that fast because if you imagine to build it in phases with the reception perfilion maybe the gateway and then the first part of the habitat it will take quite some years before we reach to be able to cross the crown road so it's not that the crown road has to come immediately for this project and then I would say because I have to do something for this project it could be a very beautiful project to do because it integrates everything in Orville in a way and it could take a lot of the load of developing spot bites all of Orville that you focus all the development just in one go in one area and all the land is there except for the land for the reception perfilion few spots of land that have been pending for many years but the rest of the land is there and actually when you walk the line of force it has been very well protected by TTC there's not a single house within 100 meters of this place there's not any issues of I must say TTC has protected the lines very very well question? so my name is Jaya and I would like to say a few words about why I have been so involved in this project it has to do with environment it has to do with the social environment and it has to do with the development which we see happening around us and in India I have seen, I've been in Orville almost 40 years now and I have seen what is happening in our surroundings how fast it goes also at the present when I drive to Chennai I've observed over the number of years now the high rise coming up very fast and I know what high rise means to live in we can even see in Orville where we have even three or four floors that often you have the stairwell and you have the flats on the sides and I know what it means to live in places like that in India I would say now I'm just doing an assumption but we have now I think it's the middle class who moves into these places these children don't go mainly to the government schools which means they will be in schools which don't have big areas so they move between two environments where they are not in contact with nature practically at all how the city looks now also I have seen in Orville and I have lived in Sweden in some places which were not built specifically for collective development but somehow developed like that and because I lived in two areas right neighbor I could see the extreme difference which what happened with people depending on how the place was developed so I have seen that when it comes to collective living there are some things which are very important which actually the environment creates collective living or the environment doesn't create it no standard same etc but this is the big difference so also so there is the thing about how do you create we need to have density I have lived as many of you know in Gaia many years built my own house with earth blocks one of the first houses built with earth blocks in Orville two stories and had solar through the years from the beginning so that was very charming and very attractive and very ecological so called but I have from the beginning always said when people spoke with me about it this is not an ecological setup with the solar the way we have it it is not sustainable in any context in the world today for one family to have this huge setup with batteries and huge cost it's not something you can apply and if we talk about human unity whatever we develop have to be applicable on the wild scale so for me this gateway I actually heard about it within a few days on a walk with Judith when she said is this a crazy idea and it was like no no this is it we can actually tackle so many things we can have a reception because I work with Junty Pavilion and I had spoken years ago with Arya Mani how do we do something for visitors which moves like a kind of a stream with exhibitions nothing happens like with so many things but how do we make a reception which actually is interactive inclusive, educational so that every single one of those million people who come here because they are coming and there will be more of them we can't stop that how do each one bring something out how do classes of children come not just rambling up the road to the viewing point but actually learn things that they take with them so much which goes from more interactive and up in more and more silent space you have more meditation and concentration places than matrimand you can get a taste of what the petals are what it means to be in silence you can use music we do so much you are looking at research on this building level but we do so much research in all of it in so many different ways how do we make all this accessible to if for me it's a gift back to India somehow that's what I always feel so that is with the visitors then if we can make because we are actually I would say the only ones who can make a place like this which is available to people people come to UNGE Pavilion they say oh what a beautiful space so I say you see where in the world can you use a space like this without being very very rich you can do that in India or in Orville you know so can we build this high rise because we need density if we look at anything I read about the elephants and the tigers or whatever if we don't give space for a station for nature then they get less and less because we are the most adaptable species which is great but we are also the most invasive species which really hurts whatever is around us so can we use our consciousness and consciously because we can actually create the spaces where we live in much smaller spaces where we condense and we can make it super beautiful and super good we don't need to each one have a house big house in the garden to have space we can actually buy our consciousness create this in a different way and these things are what really calls me to this project because I would like us to make this high rise which is, this is the hillscape so you don't have that big thing which is like that it goes on the sides up here it goes like this so you are never, this is something Rochay came up with a long time ago which architects now very cutting edge are working with in the world today you know so how we can do this from what I have understood in following the discussions within our group here you can work up to fourth level with earth and then you can have the what you call the part that goes up you can have in very light construction that you basically assemble how do we create within this space for 8,000 people to live and all we need to expand and if we expand 8,000 people here we leave we can leave things if we are going to do houses and garden there is no space left and no space for the really wild animals I don't know because it is just eating up the space with what we what we want in our surrounding so I think what Islam was saying this morning about where is this movement between the very wild and what is garden like this we can move and we can minimize it because here we have green inside the house and we create villages we do the research how do you create villages of living and how do you do it with diversity and I don't have the numbers but I know that you guys have it this is basically half percent green half percent open spaces collective spaces so even if I have a small space for myself the 30 or 40 square meters as suggested by in the original drawings and like that I have access to all the rest and I have access to the roofs and all the buildings are interconnected there are different architects but parameters are that you can move you can cycle you can do all this and if we can do this we are actually doing something for me for India also because we can shift what is happening outside that's going to only be shifted outside by very rich people in very much with that that that type of abundance now we want to do it with simplicity and abundance but really like you did say from the beginning from how we build the people that build the working force it has integrity and one thing more I want to add which is also for me part of it is the fact that when mother they were buying the lands in Orville they promised that the people would have work and yes we have given work but today by Orville for me by India's own development but by Orville also in this area all the kids are educated they need different kind of work I see the young women who are engineers and now are working in different places in Orville because they can't get jobs if we do start to build a city and we do this we have jobs for the people and they will be jobs for qualified people within this basis it's no more Amazon gardeners and I think that is really really important in our commitment so these are I think some of the main reasons why I have been deeply involved in this and from the beginning and in the retreat I actually put this on the table already in our internal notes it was mentioned but in the notes which went out to the community it was taken out but it's actually been here that long in process and we have all been pulling together the research that has been mentioned does not come for free and we have all been pulling our internal resources to do that and I think that's how Orville works and it's really amazing thank you. Okay is that all from the team so then I think we can open for questions any questions? Starting with what Fabian actually said is the one million visitors it strikes me as weird that we are actually creating infrastructure for a million visitors when mother said that there should be no day tourists in Orville no day visitors so it's it's kind of weird anyway Is that a question? Yeah it's a question Will you answer this about how first of all I tried to stress that Orville should have made a visitor policy long time ago we made the initial search we can hand over that to you we made interviews with all the partners from the security to visitor center to matrimandia we have made the statistics for people coming when they are coming and for example I can tell you when we interviewed security they said please make a policy we are totally lost because we don't know what to do there are so many different telling to us what to do when we stand there try to stop people we don't know what to do please make a visitor policy nobody have done it we said to TDC we will try like try to start that work TDC said no this is our job we will do it but then it never happened I think a visitor policy is very much needed and your question falls into that how do we handle visitors the first thing that came out when we talk about it is that visitors are many things that you talk about that they just want to see the golden ball that's one thing but then there are visitors on many many levels visitors who want to know more want to know more about Orville the visitors who have a genuine interest and you could say they should that's what we call intelligent fielding they should be handled in different ways there was earlier a team I can't remember there was a welcome group that tried to actually work on this to make a disk available where people could come where this fielding could take place and we have not worked on that at all and we are actually just ignoring these people we say they don't exist the outside and in some ways a visitors centre has said that their job is actually to handle this so Orville don't see them I don't think it's fair and a lot of other people have actually said to me that we came to Orville as a tourist the first time so how are we to judge which people have a genuine interest or not I'm advocating for that we should find a way to have an intelligent fielding you could say the gateway is very much part of that the most part of the people should actually stay there and you have enough interesting things going on so the day is gone and they will leave right now they all try to penetrate in somehow so it is how to handle this we can't decide that these one million people should go away and if you see the trend of numbers which of course is stalled by Corona now they are just rising and rising with 10% every year we will soon see two million people and we can't say go away it's not going to work we have to find a way to handle in a decent way because we are in India and these people have a right to come here so we have to find a way that this can take place in a way that is decent for both us and for them but how we do it I'm not the full one to answer but I'm just advocating make a visitors policy it's a very very urgent need second question would be with this gateway and this line of force goodwill you basically I don't know making a commercial hub and to me it looks like you're monetizing on the visitors and matrimonier I'm just sort of uncomfortable with that as a sense of is that what matrimonier supposed to represent to be commercialized maybe we make keychains instead I don't know question I don't expect an answer no I would like to answer sure for sure we don't want to commercialize matrimonier at all you could say all of the units is a big part of all of the economy so actually to say we should be not commercial at all is also very difficult we have to find a way to handle these aspects together for sure we should not commercialize matrimonier and I think in all the discussions we had in our group the matrimonier together with us we found a very very nice way of handling these things that did not disturb any of us I can tell you matrimonier is very very very strict about this issue so it is actually the gateway is actually in this graphically it's actually isolated because there's a canyon that goes through so it's actually very well positioned that you actually have a kind of geographical protection so this kind of what I call intelligent children can take place you could say that the gateway will be a certain way commercial and I don't see any problem in that because our units are commercial and that's how a lot of income to order will come so you can't ignore that fact either it would be a little bit of illusion also okay so we are going to try and have one question per person and if there are any if a person has more questions we can come in the second round once the questions have run out I'm a little confused on the the stage the project is on because at some point you mentioned that it would be like really open to architects to come up with the proposals but at some point you did mention about the DDP being there so just a little clarification on that that is all my question is about I think we have made the groundwork we have never been into architecture the DDP has to come from TDC it cannot come for us I think we have made a lot of works which can go into this projects and I think the DDP for this sector could easily be done but it's not up to us to do it we have only thought about how this this could be broken up into pieces and we for sure always thought that it would be up to many different architects to work on this it's not one architect project and in any way it will take quite many years to build and that's the main problem of that building is actually how to make a coherent building out of that afterwards when many people have been weaving on the same thing it's a huge dreamy weaving project in itself and it's also a weaving project after us to build it and that's a challenge and that may be the big challenge why the lines of force never have really been taken off because if there had been a lot of small, small, small buildings it would have been much easier I don't know if that is enough to we don't know either it is in five sectors in the planning we have done but that can be broken up into many more and I think it's a lot of work for many architects to design that building I think David is keeping track of the names very quick Manu asked the question about the relationship of the line of goodwill and the crown and we are here mostly starting with the crown and when I look at the model of Rojave of the galaxy you can see the crown being different than what is marked here and I see also in the model of the line of goodwill the crown is just this tiny thing which goes through so again it brings me to the question how adequate is this translation of crown into this this clear cut kind of road as we see it here and even that really grand design and I like it how it sits in that aerial zoom has its difficulty of reacting appropriately with the crown so how is there anything more you just said it would just go over the crown but that can't really be there must be more interaction it will be a node I can't tell you everything because anyway I'm not an architect but first of all the crown will be the main core of all these people living in it so that node will come out with a lot of traffic already then you have this conflict with all the visitors passing it which has to have some very intelligent way that they don't allow to move into that corridor but that will also be because it will take some time before you reach to that point so will there will be temporary phases where there will be roads coming in for the because if you don't build right there at the first years the crown road will just pass by and then there will be temporary phases with the roads connecting in from that point the main problem comes when this transport system which have been talking about for many many years it was a trim earlier if there's a modern way to do it that will cross it in some way that that will be another problem I think that my understanding is this is a kind of dream weaving for the crown so I think that when we bring this project here we're bringing a big element for you for your dream weaving how can you how can these two things work together harmoniously in our dream weaving there is definitely the feeling that it would be just wonderful because we live in a very flat landscape if this can be a hill for us and that you would be able to start the low end and walk all the way up to the high end right that it would add some whole dimension to our city life and that these things all imply the public transit system the very fact of it being an entry point also for all the Oravillians I won't say the Oravillians I'll say the residents of Oravill there are more than just Oravillians living here on all these things imply that that is a super crucial spot where a great deal of thought has to be put you know like what's going to happen when the residents all turn up on their electric bikes where are they going to go because they're certainly not going to start driving up we don't want to have any more vehicles beyond the crown right that would really be the end point so we don't have an answer to your question in a way it's kind of this is throwing it open to you how can you weave in all these elements that are implied by this development into a really practical but really also very beautiful and meaningful way of these two intersections right thank you if the reception building comes fast that means the existing road system will disappear that means that people's access to matrimony will actually come from the crown road so already at that stage the crown road gets very important to take the load of traffic in and super important that we should get it to the point that it's not the kind of traffic that goes down that road now that's really important in your dreaming you know to ensure that that is not the kind of traffic that's going to continue that's really important for me personally yeah I was never against the galaxy in a large city or a township but the way we are growing has to always keep in touch with the inner growth and this balance even on the ecological front of all the fronts is for me always the centerpiece not the details because I feel in that personally I feel in that project it's it could be an amazing learning field of all the complexities of to build a city and in such it would be a research project for me not for the end only but the way we are doing we are going about and when I read through Anupama's a brochure about this thing which is the one I have where she talks about community building and then proposing this project when you take it serious then we have only to find the ways how to go in phases and keeping pace with what we can do and not going too fast, keeping up with the world outside which is progressing in an incredible pace for the towards the next world war financially or ecologically so that's what I mean when I see such a project now in relationship to our growth and that is also better which we had just the last weeks and the last years actually always between people for development but what development and which way, how fast and how much of course to make an effort to go for that and to have always the good will to integrate all these different facets but very critically and then I find it is an interesting, it's a very interesting project I don't know what the question but I can answer it anyway I would say development in Orville has always been a chicken and egg situation that we say there are no people coming so why should we build? I have always said development is always the opposite if you build people will come and I come from the development sector I'm actually an economist and specialized in economic and social development you always prepare the thing and it will come I can tell you many people would like to come also very good people would like to come to Orville if there was a possibility to stay here so it is linked to building houses and I'm not saying you should build but Orville will not be able to handle that in any way but you could at least plan it in phases so you had a kind of reasonable development that could and I'm sure the people would come it's always been that I think there are okay Peter I know that but for example the water looking at the reality where we are really facing it this is not yet in this projection it's a dream weaving project in itself Peter we have only prepared the ground for it to define this project and to building it's a dream weaving process in itself much bigger than the ground growth and it's a huge complex thing it's very beautiful because as Judy said it's not one village it actually will be many villages in one building and it's not one building it's not a wall building it's actually penetrable in many ways it's a way to build a concentrated building with villages inside and that's a huge dream weaving project in itself which could take all the architects of Orville for years to to design I also want to emphasize again what I said when I was making my presentation from the beginning we have been considering that this should be something really extraordinary in terms of things of feeling like with water with energy it has to be totally sustainable and we'll never find a way to do it unless we set out to make an experiment that here is a project of this dimension on which we are setting these parameters and these standards for ourselves right from the beginning not merely in the final building but in the execution being part of the integral part of this project from day one and socially sustainable also okay we have Mona here Torkil here I want to thank you Torkil and Louis, Jaya, Judith I think it is my first presentation that I'm seeing on this project and I'm touched by your sincerity by your aspiration and everything that you've put into it I think it's something you can see that there is sincerity and there is goodwill and I think I'm a bit confused because yesterday we saw a presentation from Anupama and it looked as if the project was like done as architects that's what we perceive I know because there are exhibitions on it presentations on it and I got the impression it's quite far in its development now I hear today that even the DDP is not there even though you had this person from Mumbai doing something but it gives me great hope that a lot of other architects can be involved in this and that it can be phased out and how you're looking at the first four floors being in earth construction and so there is a lot of things that I heard today which is I think very hopeful and hopefully the dream weaving will take this it's a big challenge for us how the crown and such buildings are going to intersect because also in the industrial zone we have lines of force the only one the other lines are not that's quite complex and I hope that we will be able to tease out some of the elements and put this together so I just wanted to thank you that I feel we have been planning for ten years and we have been planning too much and we are getting so tired of each other planning that you I come from the development sector and we normally have six months we also do participatory planning when we use development projects in the world but it has to come to an end because you can plan too much you have to plan well I'm sure but when you start building a long process you have to weave it together again because you can't plan everything from start I think in order we have the feeling that we are such a demand that we should do it perfect that we want to design it so perfectly and we can't it's simply not possible at one certain stage we say enough planning we have to start I'm not saying planning should not continue and we should start weaving it until it ends together but you can't keep on being in a planning phase you get tired and you start biting yes, yes thank you for the presentation I feel understanding what you are trying to say it's almost like a design process to bring guidelines so when you start working on the divisions it's clear what are guidelines to make all of the buildings in harmony could be another dream weaving project for you and I see this as a good exercise and it is just that today I would be repeating the same statement again maybe what Peter was trying to say what is missing is always the integrative and when you said several architects working I even feel we have seen amazing presentations on energy, on trees, on water and the experts coming not I'm not even saying 5, 6 architect but that on one table all the experts coming to create this integrative and I feel the right attitude is not to sit back and say this is not integrative the right attitude is to for all the experts to come and engage instead of saying no it's not integrative and then maybe if this is the attitude that we have in Orville maybe actually we will have several examples that show highest level of all of these fields coming together okay thank you on this note I think it's time to move to the next presentation again if you have more questions to the line of Goodwill team please make note of them Alamon you have two minutes to stretch if you want I mean I mean also also you should be okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay So I have a question. Yeah, I guess it's just a question. This is a question of Ajwain. I can stand with him, but I can still call him. He has so much respect for me. And I think he's a doctor. He must be a doctor. He's a clean doctor, but I'm a good doctor. You're right. We're going to start the 31st of next month. And it's going to be my day. We're going to start with so much. Looks good! Hello, and if everyone can slowly come back to their seats, we can move on to the next presentation. Everyone can slowly come back to their seats, we can start. Okay, will this cluster please sit down? Maybe we can move on to the presentation. Our next speaker is Latha. Latha is a planner, architect, and a GIS analyst. She has a degree in architecture and a master's in regional planning. Prior to coming to Auroville in 2003, she was a project manager at ESRI, the Environmental Systems Research Institute, a private company devoted to building GIS, the geographic information systems, software and applications for many industries. With that, I will hand over now. Okay, so with this presentation, I've been invited, I think, to present the regional context. But what I'm going to do is use the context and talk about what the implications are for the current process, for the crown. That's my main aim through this presentation. So the context will be, I'll try to bring the context back to the crown and what it means when we are talking about the crown. Now, this is something that everyone knows. I don't have to explain. This is just to put the context. So we are in southern India. This here shows a little bit of the topography we are in. So this is the ECR. This is the other highway, and this is Auroville. This is the Kaliwari tank. So this shows the fact, actually the next slide will show it even better, that in that landscape, this is the ridge and this is the plateau on which we have Auroville here, if I showed earlier. So we sit on top of the ridge. It's kind of hazy, but this is a detail of the same. How we are placed in the landscape. So this is the highway, this is the ACR. This is something that has relevance for what we are doing. So as you know that this entire southern peninsula is a landscape of aries or water catchments, and they are woven together by overflow channels. So they are harvesting the water that comes during the rains, so that it can be used and extended through the rest of the year. So you can see that you have pond, overflow, pond, overflow, pond, overflow. So that is how the whole thing is woven together. And this is the watershed of the Kaliwari watershed. We are sitting here and this forms part of this large watershed. So basically whatever we do here has an impact downstream to Kaliwari. That could mean many things in terms of water that flows off, runoff, erosion, pollutants. All of that impacts what happens here downstream. This side flows into the ocean. This is a subset of that same watershed. You see the ridge line here, you see what we could call micro watersheds. And this here is the crown. So you can through this understand where the water is flowing towards. So everything on this side is flowing towards here. So this is something that flows through here, this flows through here, this flows through here, like that. So when you look at the crown, you can see which watershed each of the sections, if you will, fall into and how the water is going to behave in that landscape. For example, if you take this stretch, approximately half this watershed is going to drain through a few points. I think in the next slide I'll have the water channels as well, so you will see more clearly how the water flows. Okay, before that, going off on the topography as well, you can see that this is a profile of the crown. So basically, starting from the stretch that is already built from here, somewhere here, going down like that. So that is the profile. Of course, these little bumps are trees. So actually, you know, the topography is probably like straight like that. But because of the trees, you have all these. But it also shows where are in that profile, where are our wooded areas. So you can see the recent flashpoints are pretty clearly you can note from the topography itself. So this is the lowest point. The highest is close to 50 something, 53 or 52 meters. The lowest point here, which is here in Dar-Kali, in one of the canyons adjacent to Dar-Kali, which is 42 meters. So essentially, from here, you have this going down here and then coming up here, which is normal because you saw that the ridge was going like that. So it's something that you can infer, but this shows the profile. And that has an impact on our designs as well. This here shows the streams. It's a course level. But you can see that, you know, how the streams are going through the landscape here. This one goes into Irumbai and then down like that. This one goes towards the sea. And if you notice, some of our, these are the green that you see here is TDF, forest regenerated forests. And, you know, there is a strong correlation in many cases and it would have been in all if we were even more careful about where we planted and everything. But you can see that this Dar-Kali here is between these two canyons, so water from here goes there. This here is the, that flows toward this and goes to a pond here, which then connects back to Kareeli outside. So you can see a little further, you can, in this map, you know, this is academic at this point. You can see that this light red is the village. So this is the village here. This is the village. So Kodakarai village is here. So this is, these are the villages. This, and this here is temple land. So you can see a few pockets here and there. The orange plus the green is what Orville owns at the moment. So you can probably see that pretty much very close to everything is owned, except in the crown, you'll see a few, you know, gaps through which you are able to see the, you know, unowned land by Orville. And in the green belt, you can see how little is owned by Orville and how little actually, and so you have, you know, larger parts of the green belts are actually settlements and temple land and such. Okay, so that's basically, I'm only touching upon the natural features that have consequences and that I don't know if others have covered. So which means, you know, there was Islam, there were other people that are going to, that Glenn, who's going to cover the green parts of the, so I'm not focusing on any of those. So they have impacts as well. So I'm focusing on what I think may not have been covered. So now this is a big one in considering anything that has to do with mobility. This is a regional mobility. So you can see that these are all the different ways that people are entering. There are minor pathways, other places also through which they are able to enter. But these are some of the major ones. This is the Tar Road. This is Kulapalim. So this is the Tar Road that connects to the highway here, that connects to the ECR here. Currently, this is used, or this is used as the bypass or people passing through Orville. They are currently passing through the periphery of the city, or city area. And these are, so these are the main tar roads. These are motorable roads, which are not tarred currently. If you see this road, for example, if someone has to get to the center from here, they go like that right now. There is another alternative, which we do see a lot of people walking around here, people who live in this area. There's Madhukar security. They will probably tell that there are a lot of people who show up in cars here and ask for where the Matrimandir is, or where the solar kitchen is and stuff, because there is a reasonably wide road here. Now, roads, preference for roads by tourists, by us, by everyone is determined by how wide it is, so how fast I can go, and how good it is. So currently, the thing that is a big deterrent here is that it is not a very good road. It's not easily motorable. There are potholes, you know. So majority of the people still prefer this. When we are actually thinking of the crown here now, this little arc is the already built crown road. So when we are thinking of the crown road as a circle or whatever we, I mean currently, whatever the thinking is, that is something that we need to be thinking about, this larger picture. For example, this is already a road that is there, and this is where the crown would be. So whether or not another thing of importance is when you create a new road, that attracts its own traffic. So the traffic sometimes gets divided between two. So if you put the crown here, let's say, this traffic will get divided. Some people will go like this, some people will go like that, and you would have two parallel roads pretty much, this is just an example, pretty close to each other, serving the same purpose. So you need to think about that as well. I'll leave it at that because a detailed mobility analysis has been done. However, it hasn't been done recently, meaning in the last year or so, no. This is another zoom in, zooming into the mobility. Now we are talking internally how people move around. So these are the centers of big activity. This is the town hall area, this is the Baratnevas area, this is the visitor center. You can see this is the auto-ship and those areas, and this is the solar kitchen. So you see that currently what we have pretty much serves the purpose of getting to these places. And here is the crown, the dotted is the crown. So currently what we should be thinking about is the stretch that has been made, I think people, I myself am guilty of it sometimes, we go as fast as we can possibly go in these areas, because it's a nice road, we don't have that many great roads. So we do that. So this area is where the residential zone 1 and 2 is, and the cultural zone here. So we need to be thinking about what are the elements that bring a slowdown on traffic, more pedestrian activity, a streetscape rather than a road that we should be looking at over here. Actually in 2015 under Doshi actually we, as part of the technical team, had done a crown development guidelines for just residential zone 1 and 2. Taking that, all of that. So pulling from the master plan, pulling from conversations that we had had with people in sessions on dreaming, I mean it wasn't dream weaving, but it was still dreaming about what could the crown be. And so that guidelines is something that I think I can pass on to the dream we were. And we can, so in this, I think I'll leave this one also there, out there, because I think we can move on. What colors? I think the only important ones are these, because these are relating to mobility. I've just used a background map. This is TDF. The red are roads or paths or transportation corridors. This thing is water. The blue that you see is water. And the green that you see is Auroville-owned lands. Okay, now I switch to something that we had done at the request of Madam Secretary. And where she called us to dream, not dream, but envision the crown. So as we looked at the crown with the lens of the topography, the landscape, the people where Auroville people are, all those, all that has preceded us, that informs us in terms of understanding. So we came up with a few typologies. They could be more, but this is all based on what the master plan predicts there, what zone this section is in, what is the landscape telling us, what are the socioeconomic factors that affect us, what is the mobility that is going to affect us. So I'll go quickly, since the bell has rung. So we have divided it into these sections, and you can see. So this is the circle here. So you can see this is the crown that is already built, going from there, there, there, there. So you can see. And I will not go through all of them, because obviously I have not so much time. I'll just correct, but I have more, I have lots. So I will just touch upon a few to explain what method we used in order to say what we are saying. So I'll go, I think I will skip this just for the simple reason that this is something that we have done in detail in the crown guidelines. So I'll skip this part. This is the part that we have actually made the crown guidelines for way back, you know. So I will not talk about that, but okay, I'll still show the visuals, because we imagine it to be a shared space, you know, with things on both sides. Anyway, it's part of the residential zone, which basically means that you have social amenities that are there. So some of them are currently there, for example, library. Some others can be there. We don't have any cafes or we don't have anything that you can just walk to in the morning, get a cup of coffee, come back. There are a whole bunch of things that are not there. But that is and nowhere where actually you can feel that it's a street and not a motorized. So that that streetscape is something that we want to create in that stretch. That's what we are proposing. Oh, another thing that we have done in the proposal for this is also identified what is happening there. Basically, what does the landscape tell us? What is the socioeconomics? I mean, the growth that has happened till now done. And what does it tell us? Then looked at what the master plan says should come in those areas. Looked at current realities and said what we should do now and what we could do in the long term. So that's how we've structured it as well. Some of many of you probably have already seen the presentation before when we presented here. But I will move to. So I will skip this for now or maybe I can. Yeah, this is an important one. This is an important one mainly because of Auradam here. So currently the uses. So it's it's topography is similar to the center, which is 50 something meters and everything from the sea level. This is this is the part that overflows and goes into the Iran by Lake. This is the live water body that is there. You can see it right now after the rains. So this is the section that I think I touched upon in the mobility one as well that currently this is how people go. And this is how it is proposed. So what we are recommending is that this could be for internal or will traffic, you know, especially pedestrian and walking and maybe cyclists as well. But it should not be motorized at all because we don't want this to be a bypass to, you know, an alternative to this. People can continue like that for now in the long term and plus this could be in terms of uses that could be proposed. Now this is like a brief, but I'm sure dream viewers will dream their own brief. But this is we have said that this from here you could have, you know, some kind of pathways that already exist to the dam itself, the water body itself. And then one could potentially have interpretive walk, you know, around it or things like that. Basically a recreational kind of area here, low impact, respecting the ecology, not all of it opened up. That's what we see in the, so it could, you know, these are just images to, you know, some of them are from here. This is from here, but, you know, all the things that could be there. You could have bike rest areas, you know, things like that. This is how the Auradam era looks like. So, you know, you can see this is a bad perspective because it makes it look very, very vast, but whatever we could find from different places, we put to kind of demonstrate what we mean by what we could do there. This is from the Bharat Nevas Road. This is the second stretch. I'm going to skip that as well. This is the other stretch that has been the focus of attention for a while, in recent times anyway. And I think I touched upon it before as well. So you have these two canyons that, you know, are in the periphery or even part of that. And what happens here? Currently, the current uses here are, well, you have water catchment ponds. You have pathways. You have this, which is a jogging track or walking track. So what we have proposed in the short term here is that, again, it should be something that actually should not be opened up or connect to any road, per se. One could produce, one could design some kind of walking track or whatever. However, the access should be from within at different points and not a connecting thing that moves from one end to the other. And of course, interpretive centers and, you know, even things about the trees that are there because it does, this area does have some unique trees. And whatever happens here is going to affect downstream Kota Karai and all that. So there is a lot of water that is caught, that is conserved here. So this is the next stretch, which I'll skip also in the interest of time. This is the other stretch that has now international attention even. So this one is the, or maybe not, maybe it's not this one, maybe it's the next one. Yeah, this is the one. So this here is, again, you have the, it's in the cultural zone. You have the school here. You have a youth center on this side. You have the forest on that side because this is the park. This is the park as noted in the master plan. So again, here we are recommending similar uses to what we had said in the previous ones, except this would have these kinds of activities that attract schools. Attract school going population. So again, their exposure to nature, field walks and, you know, nature club. People from outside also from other schools can potentially come and look at whatever exhibits, maybe something for residences for youth. So those kinds of things here that we are saying around the crown, because I mean, bear in mind the crown is a corridor of amenities that serve the zone in which the crown is. So it's the focus is on the amenities, not necessarily how, so the road could be just a service road for all we care. It could be a streetscape for all we care because we only need to have provide services so that goods and services can go easily provided because considering Orville is moving, it's trying to move toward pedestrian and friendly city. So the road is just a service road for emergency services and for providing services to the crown. So I think, so this is again some images just to show what it could be interpretive center, you know, giving information about the species there about, you know, and then you have some places where people can hang out, you know, all modeled after some of the stuff that you can say happens elsewhere also. And these are all images from different national parks in the United States and other areas. So I'll skip this as well. And so that brings me to the end of the crown thing. Now, before I finish, I want to say something about planning. So planning happens at many different levels. So obviously, there is a hierarchy in planning. So you have regional plan, you have city plan, you have urban design, you have, you know, so in that spectrum, there is architect urban design, nor city planner regional planner. So that's the spectrum within which it operates and each geography determines what goes into the thinking of that about that particular scale. So in a regional plan, you have to take a lot more in things into account like mobility and all, all of those kinds of things, economic drivers, social impact. And as it comes down, that designs the framework within which the next thing happens. So town planning happens at the next phase. So certain contexts are already laid out by the regional plans within which city planning happens. Certain contexts are laid out already by the city plan in which urban design happens. And then, of course, down like that. And we as people living in a house, we only have, you know, small modifications that we are able to make. We are living in a particular context. So that's the scale spectrum. So in that, I want to say that this happened, Roger Galaxy happened in 1968. At that time, towns were planned by architects and master planners. So Roger was that. In that, in this particular case, the galaxy happened and where it was going to be placed happened next. So, you know, there is not that much connection between a concept and the land or in the context. So it is placed in a context. So that's what happened then over the years, of course, you know, the setting it in the context started happening. You know, everyone was involved in it, including Roger. I remember meeting him, I don't remember, 2003 when I first came or something when I showed the rage and showed all this environmental stuff. He said, oh, but if that's the case, how am I going to, you know, work? How am I going to build a city? So that era, you know, that's when Brazil happened, Brasilia happened, that's when Chandigarh happened. A lot of things happened where the architect and the master planner is determining what's going to be designed and then placed in a context. So next is, this is in the 70s. This is Ian McCark who wrote a book that was published in 1969. And that is when environment came into the picture. So he says, the shaping of land for human use ought to be based on an understanding of natural processes. So he brought in that thing in the world. I mean, it wasn't something that everybody was thinking about. Maybe people in little pockets, people actually more in tune with living with nature. Of course, for them it was a habit. It was something that they never even questioned. For the planning field, this was a new thing when he talked about all of this. He wasn't very popular during that time. And then he, so he says here that, you know, people operated in different silos. So the physical scientist had its own, had his own expertise. Social scientists had their own expertise. Everybody had their own expertise, but they were not working together with each other. And definitely they were not knowing anything about planning. They knew where the water is coming from and all, but how it gets integrated into planning, no. So, you know, and he says that if you talk about design, they ran away screaming. So he took the time to build this kind of ecosystem of different knowledge, you know, streams in the understanding in planning. So that now it wasn't a master planner who said, okay, it was these guys who informed the master planner in what they designed, what he or she designed. Yet the design element stayed with the master planner, you know. These provided information, but the integration part was still left to the master planner or the designer. And so, so he in the process, he brought in this whole thing where you had all this information on transparent sheets that you overlaid in order to understand the different aspects of the landscape. And of course, eventually it became what we now call GIS geographic information systems where we can actually bring in all these layers to understand how everything interacts because everything builds one on top of the other. So you'll have a topography and then hydro hydrology, soil types, vegetation, human use, you know, land use, lantern, everything builds on the landscape. And he used to call it the layer cake method that you had these layers and then you analyzed it and then you proposed your design. Well, unfortunately, the image here is not showing. It's showing on my, this thing, but anyway, doesn't matter. The image, just imagine the image. We are all dreamers, so we can. So this image showed the work that was done with Doshi in 2009 in integrating all the different elements into a common base and having that inform all the planning. It was a precursor, you can say, to do the planning. Falls within the same realm that you collect all the information from all these and then you do your design. It's okay, I think people will know. It is just an horrible image with a morphed image of all the different things that impact planning. So it's topography, water, the galaxy, the, you know, everything that's going to inform the planning that you do here. Now, in this decade, the last decade, there is another framework that has emerged which has to do with the fact that it is not the design, the design professions here, so that includes everybody from architect to town planner to regional planner. This is, these are the sciences. Now it includes the people of the place, so that means people who are going to be living or are already living in the area that you are proposing something. Information technologies, of course, are the integration, are also determining how that happens. And this is, these all four of, all of these elements are working together and they are informing what is happening here. So the design, so it's a common, it's a common purpose, common, so they evolve the common vision, they evolve the common brief, if you will, and they evolve the common design as well. Each one brings their expertise, but the collective owns the, is vested into the result that is designed. This is relatively new in terms of the terminology, you know, geo design, you may not have heard of it. I think the Citizens Assembly, for example, is another effort, I think, in line with these kinds of, you know, these kinds of processes where the participation of the people as equal members to the design process is recognized. I don't know if the Citizens Assembly recognizes it, but that is the, actually, in fact, so geo design requires collaboration among the design professions, graphical sciences, information technologies, and people of the place. So this is, so anyway, so this is something that I think even our Constitution, by passing the 73rd and 74th Amendment recognizes, which is called Panchayati Raj Act, in which they have given the authority to design and develop the local area according to the people. So that's why Graham Sabars are empowering the, so different places, different movements have happened which support this whole participation of the people in the process of design. This is, this is of course my last slide, because in Auroville, we, this is what we are here for. I am here for this. And in that, you can see that the third one talks about Auroville wants to be the bridge between the past and the future, taking advantage of all discoveries from without and within, Auroville will boldly spring towards future realizations. I think that is, this is what we are talking about here. We should, we have, it's almost like a Divine Aadesh, you would say, to keep up with what is happening outside and what is happening inside and the evolution that even the planning field has gone from, gone through to reach where we are, where, you know, you had the part that I just explained. So some of us, me in particular, feel compelled that it would be a, it would be a disservice or not being a true Aurovillian. If I were not to respect this and say, I have to bring in all the knowledge that I have gained, even in the planning profession, to what is happening in Auroville. And in fact, I would want Auroville to be the beacon to the world where they can say, this is how we do things here. This is, you know, this is what the world should emulate. That's what I would like to see. So I'll end with this slide. Thank you. Thank you, Latha. So we have 15 minutes for questions. And yes, please indicate to David when you have a question. So he'll write down the names. Latha, thank you very much for this very, very informative and intense presentation. I have a question relating to the intersection of the village and Auroville, especially with related to the crown. We have Bharati Puram coming very close to the crown. The aspirations of the village for development is slightly different from the, or maybe there's a big difference with the aspirations of Auroville for development. Correct. So have you considered that in the projections while you made the crown planning? Yes, yes. So it has not addressed their future. It is because it's addressing more the present, because the demand of us was how do we move forward at the present. But in the framework of the people of the place, they are people of the place as well. So they have to have a seat at the table when all of that is being discussed, not just us saying, you know, this is what, you know, so they have a role to play there, how it is organized, how we ensure meaningful participation, because currently it's all political mobilization, right? So, you know, that is very important. So it's not like, you know, just have them at the table and everything is going to work. No, we may have discord. So we have to figure out, I mean, that's a challenge we face on an everyday basis. And we have to face also, we have to live up to that challenge as well. So we have to find frameworks within which they can come in and be part of the process royally, and not be pulled here and there by just political, I don't know, I mean, interests that happens all the time. So we see it all the time. I mean, not just that we are free of it, we have it also within ourselves. So it's not like, oh, those guys are political guys, we don't do it. We do it also. Hi, Latha, thanks. I just wanted to clarify, because you didn't mention, we kept on saying... That's Prashant and I. Okay, I will just want to clarify. I think since you asked that question, I'll say that when Madam asked us to do this, we talked, of course, we were still in the second mode. We could not have a truly participatory process, because the fact was we were given just a week. So we actually talked to all, whoever, through our networks, we reached out to many people in order to find what is it that they aspire for this place and all that. And we integrated that. So the team, actually it wasn't just Prashant and me. It was Tejaswini as well, Suhasini, Dharmesh. But I think towards the end it was just Prashant and I who finalized. But anyway, you can see it only as a perspective. You don't necessarily have to see it. It is our perspective. You take it or you leave it. You have any idea of the infrastructure because that seems to be the bone of contention. So I'm putting it out there. Because you showed all these different parts of the ground that you did. Do you have any idea because you said where Dharkali is and it could be smaller? No, the infrastructure corridor currently in contention is the cable right now. And the cable in Dharkali has already been laid. So it's not a contentious one right now, really speaking. I mean it is made to be a contentious one, but it's not really. Because it is possible to lay cables. People lay cables under the sea. It is possible to lay cables. I'm not saying we should lay it under the sea or we should lay it in waterlogged areas. I'm not saying that. But that is a technical solution that needs to be found for infrastructure. You need to be able to provide it. To provide it in whatever fashion you want in terms so that it is a loop. That is what I've been told. It has to be a loop. It has to have access. Now the access is just going around in circles. Not necessarily. You have to have points of access. I think the encasing has to be modular. For example, I have mapped utility networks in my life also. So you have nodes. You have junctions. So it's mapped in a particular way. And then you know when a fault arises, you know exactly where the fault is. Because the sensor tells you and you send your dispatch over there. So we, I mean, I've even worked on applications that do the application as in software applications. That do the dispatches as well. This is where the fault is. How to rush there and repair it and make it operational. I mean, there are so many. So I wouldn't go. I'm not, besides, I'm not a technical expert on infrastructure, right? Because that's where the experts come in into. I, my expertise lies in more of the stuff that I talked about, less on all of these. Although I'm just saying since I've mapped some, I'm saying that that's how it works. So you have to have it and you have to have access to it. How it's done is totally up to the designer. Thanks, Lata. I was glad when you brought Ian McCarg into the picture because since yesterday, I've been kind of thinking about this whole exercise of looking at it as, as essentially, you know, a landscape architecture exercise, you know, which. I missed the first part. Who into it? Ian McCarg. I studied under him. So I'm a landscape architect also. So to sort of go back and revisit maybe some of these, you know, maybe contemporary planning principles, you know, Ian McCarg, of course, was working in the 60s and he's sort of looking at it. These layers as sort of these almost fixed layers, you know, whereas when we're looking at now in more contemporary landscape architecture course, we are looking at it as much more dynamic, much more politicized at many levels, ecologically at a human level also. So the kind of research I see that could really inform is not just sort of this quantitive research, but also a lot of qualitative work. Qualitative as well. Because that will help you really give a very nuanced understanding of, you know, the data. I believe that that's where social scientists come in also. I mean, to some extent, you know, because our anthropology, I mean, there is a vast, you know, science over there, science or practice. Okay, let's not call it science, but practice that informs those kinds of elements. So what in the larger planning process, like planning as such, are you kind of talking to some of these so-called experts or, you know, like anthropologists or it's not just for you the question. Yeah, because I'm not in the position of a planner here right now. I mean, I'm not in the TDC or, you know, where I've been brought in here and even in this process as someone who knows something, who's done something in the past more as an expert in that sense of certain specific domains. Obviously, I don't claim to know all the... And I also want to say that a planner, you know, or the design professional has to have a generalized understanding, general understanding of all the domains, but the experts are the one who bring in those details and are bringing it to the table. That's why it becomes more important in the geo-design framework that I said, which many other frame... I mean, there are many other frameworks that exist also. In 2009, there was a group that had come from Europe somewhere and they had a similar kind of collaborative framework as well. They came again, I think, a few years ago. So I think essentially I'm saying I don't know, you know. I'm saying I, myself, don't know everything, but we need to involve the people who know into the process so that it is complete and it is able to take into account everybody's understanding and aspirations. Are there any more questions? Yeah, I want to say one thing. This is anecdotal since we still have some time. We don't have any questions, right? Oh, okay. Like you showed in the green belt that we have only about 30% and 33% of the land. What are the dangers of planning when, currently right now, I'm just speaking like when we design, we don't have those parcels of land and then we plan it from that perspective that we have that. What, I mean, it's not just, I don't know, does it make sense as a question, but it generally, when we are looking at the maps, we look at these two circles, the green belt and then the city area, but when we actually look at the real maps, it kind of gives a very different perception of what we have at hand. So, while we are looking at different kinds of maps, like a conceptual or the reality, it kind of tends to give us a picture in a different way also. Actually, that's true. I should have included a land status map as well because that informs what we do as well because we cannot willy-nilly open anything up because there are speculators, there are interests that will start developing the moment we start building. We have to look at our growth rate as well. I mean, we have been growing in a certain, in terms of numbers. We aspire to go faster with numbers, but what numbers are they that we have to look at? What are the kind of people that we want to attract here? What are the institutions that will faster those kinds of people coming here? So, that also needs to be thought about and that is something that I think, you know, we don't have anybody that is presenting, at least I couldn't see except one person who did on economy supposedly in the morning, which I didn't attend, but that angle is very important as well because that determines when we build something, what impact is it going to have on all of those things? Will people just hold on to their land because, you know, or that needs to be thought. And there are experts who can inform us about it fully. I understand that some of it, but of course, I don't understand all of it, you know, how that whole economic structure works there when you open up an area. And sure, the numbers will increase, development will happen, but, you know. Yeah, so just to, just one more small thing, like when we say from right now 3,500, but aspiring to 50,000 number, which is a huge gap then, we say, then do you think it makes sense to really, really pay attention a lot to phasing it out? Planning is all about phasing. Planning is about iterative processes. So that's why we even have, even from that time, we had master plan for 20 years or 15 years, whatever. We had development plans for every five years, but they are still like developed. But the thinking is that when you do a master plan for 20 years, 25 years, and you do a development plan for five years, and you do your annual implementation plan for one year, what happens in that one year demands that you go back and rework the development plan. What happens in the development plan goes back and reworks the master plan. So let's say if we projected, we are going to be 10,000 in X number of years in the master plan. The detailed development plan will say, in the first five years, we are going to be so many people. And in the annual plan, it will say we are planning for 1,000 people. Let's say, I mean, this is just arbitrary. Now, if we see that in that first year, we haven't reached the 1,000, we need to relook why we need to examine, and then that is the ideal process, if you will. So there is always a back and forth. It's like always, you know, and it's in that sense iterative. So that's where, you know, you go in, you have to, you go in circles, yeah, sorry. Spirals, yeah. Thank you very much for your presentation. What assumptions would you suggest that dreamweavers take, for example, the mobility, phasing, and the regional aspects in their conceptual work as they're trying to inspire some flavors in this DDB preparation? So the assumptions, I know you've listed them, but what are the things you would highlight? These are the ones I highlighted. I have a whole list of them. I only brought here what I thought needed to be highlighted, and that I thought did not, probably will not find a place in the other presentations. For example, I know there is a presentation on development priorities that's coming down the pike, and I know that that will talk about our growth numbers. Where are we growing? How are we doing? So I did not touch upon any of those things which need to inform you as well. This is only coming from the hat that I wear, which is of an ecological planner, and so whatever I could bring for that. Yeah, I'll share with you what I have worked on so far over the years. So I told you about the Crown Guidelines for just the residential zone one and two. Also, there are planning guidelines that is for the entire city, and there are numerous studies and all that which are there, which also may have some impact on what you're doing. But the scale at which you're operating is not that... So I have, from my perspective, pretty much brought the... But if I think about something else, I just found somebody pointed out about the land status, for example, that has an impact. Mobility needs to be looked at much more carefully, which we, even I haven't really looked in this part. We had done that, like I said, a while ago, but that's outdated because it changes. So, yeah. Okay, thank you, Latha. I think that's time over. So I want to just say one thing. This is anecdotal information. But this is to stress about this whole third... Third part of the charter. Chamalalji, as some of you know, Chamalalji, when he first... This is my first introduction to Chamalalji. He had come home looking for us because he had heard something had happened to us and he was afraid we'd leave or a will or something. So he came and during that conversation, he said that the first of these environment conferences that happened, like Glasgow happened right now, was started. The first one happened in 1972 in Sweden, Stockholm, I think, yeah. And they were, at that time, only two heads of states. Of course, one was the Swedish Prime Minister, who was Olof Palmy, and the other one was Indira Gandhi, who went to the conference. You have to bear in mind that this is when the people had kind of recognized that environment is an important part of our life and our survival depends on what we do. And so, in that conference, mother sent Roger and Chamalalji. Even at that time, she anticipated that this is an important topic that our guys who are working here need to understand. So essentially, I guess my point being that I think there is a lot of things that we just can take from that, just that example, that we have to constantly redesign ourselves as well in our thinking based on all the circumstances that we are faced with. So anyway, I thought it would be good to talk about the mother. Yes, thank you. So on that note, we can break for lunch. And if anyone has any more questions to Latta, please write it on the sheet of paper and hand it to one of us. And be back before 2 p.m. Before, I insist. Thank you very much, so we can start on time because tonight we are going to finish at 6.30 and I'm pretty sure none of you want to be home.