 We do these every other Monday. Call this Recovery Monday. This is the 75th one that we're doing here. So there's been a lot of Mondays that we hung out together and talked about anxiety and recovery stuff today. We're going to talk about coping strategies. Specifically, we're going to talk about what happens when coping strategies go wrong and they start a backfire. So let's get the chat up and then I can't see anything. We'll put the chat overlay up so you guys can talk to each other as you usually do. Hey, where's my background? Let me put my background up. What happened? There it is. Come on. There we go. Now we're back. Anyway, yeah, today we're going to talk about coping strategies and we're going to talk about what happens when coping strategies go from helpful to not so helpful. And generally speaking, we would call, we would say that they become compulsive and they become excessive avoidance and escape behaviors as opposed to ways to help you navigate through difficult moments. So once you guys pop in, make sure that I can hear you and you can hear me. Let me look at the chat. I don't see anything up in the overlay yet. Has it started? I can't see anything. Yeah, Zach, it has started. I was a couple of minutes late. That is true. So just let me know that you can hear me. Let me know where you're coming from. Here we go. Pops in. I'm awesome. Yes, as a matter of fact, you are my my lone Twitch viewer that comes in every week. Sometimes we have two Twitch viewers. That's a big week, you know? Hey, Lily, how you doing? So if you are in the Facebook group and you're watching, unfortunately, restream doesn't show me your name. So it'll just say Facebook user. If you want to say your name when you make a comment, that's totally fine. Okay, I'm here. Very good. So I guess let's get to it. I'm not sure how many people are going to pop in today. I've kind of forgot to let everybody know about this one, but we'll see. Usually we wind up with 80 to 100 people in the room, but we'll get going. So yes, thank you, Sarah. Can hear me. I appreciate that. Let's talk about coping strategies. Coping strategies are this is one of those counterintuitive things that often runs against sort of conventional wisdom that we hear generally speaking in the mental health space or in the self-help space or the personal development space. We talk about coping strategies all the damn time and coping strategies are do have their place. There's no doubt about that and they're useful in certain context and outside of the realm of anxiety disorders. They tend to be a bit more applicable, but for people in our community, coping strategies often become avoidance. They become escape and they can be really compulsive. So we care about today. We're talking about coping strategies and I mean, if you guys want to pop in the comments with like your favorite coping strategies, if you will, thank you for using my data. Anyway, no worries. No worries. So it's always fun to use those by the way and disorders, but if in the podcast, if in the comment section, you want to talk about your go-to coping strategies or coping strategies that people have suggested to you or that you've heard about all the time, we can talk about them because they're generally speaking, we all know the common ones. Sometimes coping, you know, relaxation, breathing, deep breathing, which I was doesn't have to be deep. I hate when people say deep breathing, breathing and relaxation. Some people use things like tapping. Some people use grounding five, four, three, two, one. Like these are the really popular sort of coping strategies that many people will say, oh, this is what you have to do when you get really anxious. You do these things. These are coping strategies and coping strategies are recording my anxiety charge for five minutes. Yeah. So sometimes what happens is people will say, well, this is what you do to when you feel anxious or when you feel a state of discomfort or when you feel fear or uncertainty or you're in a state of distress. Do these things. They help you cope. And many times while we would prefer to look at coping strategies as sort of navigation strategies or more likely skills than strategies or techniques, sometimes they get applied in our context as, oh, when I get triggered, I have to do these things because this makes it go away. Like when I get anxious or if I'm panicking, I have to do my deep breathing because then my panic attacks go away and I can calm down. When I start to get really anxious or nervous or afraid, I have to, you know, tap on my cheeks so that it goes away and I calm down. When I get triggered and I have these scary thoughts, you know, I have to do these things so that I can calm down and I can get through it. And that's where coping strategies are a little bit off the rails for people like us because then they become rituals. Sometimes they can become compulsive rituals that actually backfire on us and they sometimes make it worse. So let me look at the comments here. Is this still live? Yes, if you're yes, I'm actually reading your comment. It is still live. This is being recorded on August 21st 2023. It's now a little bit after two o'clock in the afternoon of East Coast. It were live then if you're watching in the future, we're not live. It's a replay. So let's look at what some people say about coping strategies because what winds up happening is we don't want them to become like I have to do this when I get triggered. I have to do this or else I can't handle it. I can't get through. That's when things get a little bit off the rails. So let's see. I always love the jokes are recording by anxiety. Josh, I learned used to pick up heavy things in the store when I got nervous. Okay. So people will develop their their own set of sort of coping strategies and they look like I have to do this to get through. And the reason why that can sometimes backfire is if you really dig into that and you insist, no, no, I have to do this. I call my safe person. I call my partner. I call somebody to talk me through it. I call somebody to distract me. I immediately pick up my phone and start playing games to distract myself like that is not so much coping. That's escaping. And then what you're essentially doing is when your brain fires that threat response and says, oh, danger, danger, and all the alarms are going off and you feel it in your body and you have the storm of scary thoughts in your head. If you immediately run to the coping strategies to get away from it and make yourself feel better because otherwise you think you can't handle it. You are literally thanking your brain for sending sounding that alarm like. Yeah, I can't. I can't handle it. So I need something to get away from. I something has to get me away from this because otherwise I'll be overwhelmed and I won't be able to handle it. And when we dig in and we perform those rituals again and again and again and they become conditions on our okayness, you guys may have heard me talk about conditional okayness as a concept. Things can get a little bit sticky and then when we find ourselves in a situation where it's like, well, I'm doing all the things I do. I have all the coping strategies. I have all the techniques. I have my oils. I have my tapping. I have my calming music. I have my deep breathing rituals and I don't know. I can't seem to recover because generally speaking, coping strategies become avoidance escape and management strategies. I'm just trying to manage it and trying to never to be triggered. And if I do get triggered, I try to manage my way through those triggers and I need these things to get through. So that's where things can go really off the rails and in the context of anxiety disorders and what we're talking about here, that gets really backwards and counterintuitive. So sometimes when I sort of pick on coping strategies or I question their validity, people will come back hard at me. Like, how can you say that? This is just common knowledge. Well, it's common knowledge outside of our context. But one of the phrases that I like to use most often, I think Josh actually said it to be honest with you was, I like to rely on content that is anxiety disorder informed. We've all heard the word trauma informed. Heaven forbid says somebody says something in a trauma context that isn't trauma informed. They get the crap knocked out of them. Well, we should probably apply the same thing here. So if somebody is telling you that the way through your OCD or the way through your health anxiety is to build a elaborate, rich toolbox, chock full of coping strategies like putting ice on your wrists. They're not necessarily anxiety disorder informed. They're trying to help you feel better in the moment, which is certainly admirable and we all want other human beings to feel better. But that isn't necessarily long term appropriate or helpful in a lot of ways. So let's keep going through the comments here. We'll try and do comments as we go instead of me just yacking for 15 minutes and then reading comments. Let's hear. Okay, this is good. Let's throw this up here. This is really common. So I'm sorry. I can't see your name. The Facebook group. My go to coping strategies are your podcasts. I realize if I'm a setback during recovery, I listen to endless podcasts on anxiety to feel better. This is a huge comment and I appreciate this comment because I really appreciate the insight that goes into this comment. When you know you are doing it and you realize that like this my podcast has gone from being educational or informative to being like a safety behavior or a soothing thing, then you can start to make different choices. So I love this comment and this is a whole lot more common than we probably think. So it's weird in this space. You get people like me who do a podcast that often tell people to not listen to the podcast like in podcasting school I would fail because like what are you doing? Why are you telling people to not listen to your podcast? Well, if the podcast becomes a soothing thing, I'm really anxious or I have to go face a big trigger. I'm going to do a big exposure. So I make sure I put my earbuds in and I listen to Drew while I do it. Well, okay, if that's a way to start, that's fine. I say this all the time, but at some point you have to realize, oh, that's a strategy. You have to start to leave behind. I really can't do that because it's keeping me sort of glued to this crazy person from New York and his voice like he's not helping me here. He's just making me feel better, but I need to be able to rely on myself. So that's really important. And I love that you would notice it. If you notice that you're doing it, then it's good. You can start to make a change. Not easy because you break into habit, but that's good insight. Very good. This is good, too. I learned to do them when I'm not anxious. I don't do them when I'm... This is really good. So Daniel, I super appreciate this comment because coping strategies are really best applied when life is pressing on us, right? So there's a lot going on at work. Maybe there's some money issues. There are health issues, relationship issues, the kids are driving you crazy. Whatever it happens to be, that is when coping strategies become really useful. How do I manage my stress? How do I dissipate stress? How do I just kind of take care of my own mental and physical health? That's when coping strategies are really best applied. And what Daniel's saying here is, well, I use them when I'm not anxious. So that's great. Like, I love to exercise. I like to get out on my bike, especially in the summer months. I'll get out and ride road for an hour this morning. It felt so good. I don't do that as an automatic default when I'm triggered or having an anxious day. I better get out of my bike and ride. No, I do it just because it makes me feel good. And it's a way to manage stress and just take care of myself. So applying coping strategies when you're not anxious instead of using them as responses to when you're triggered is great. Daniel, great comment. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate it. I actually prefer to get up and I'm going to keep looking, going through the comments here. I actually prefer to get up and do something. Anything. This is go for a drive. Okay, that's totally fine. And again, everybody develops their own way. Remember that what we care about when you are in a triggered state, and I'm just using that as a generalized statement, like whatever the trigger happens to be might be panic, might be health anxiety, might be OCD, whatever it happens to be. When you're in a sort of a triggered state, we're always looking to be able to navigate through that without relying on the compulsions and the safety behaviors and the rituals that we used to think we needed to get through it. So if you develop new, more adaptive ways to go through this, like, oh, instead of, you know, immediately going for rubber bands and snapping my wrist and calling my partner to talk me down. Instead, I'm going to do this. I have this crossword puzzle that I've just been sitting there forever. I'm going to try to do it. I'm going to suck at it because I'm going to panic and crossword puzzles don't work so well, I'm panicked. Or, hey, I have had this new music playlist in my Spotify for a week and I haven't had a chance to listen. This is a good time to maybe put it on and see if I can pay attention to the music. So we look for new, more adaptive ways to respond that tell us, oh, I can do this while I'm triggered. I can get through this. So it's good and whatever that happens to be. Some people will say, well, I get out and I go challenge it. Like, I'll get out and go for a drive or I'll get out and go for a walk. You just want to make sure that that doesn't go from a, I'm going to do what I want, even though I'm anxious, thumbs up to I have to get out and drive immediately or I must get out and walk when I'm anxious, that we don't want. So you got to be careful. Let's see. When I get into a depressive episode and I lose motivation to start beating myself, I seek your podcast to spark that motivation. No, that's, that's okay. In this situation, like this is a good question too. I appreciate this comment too. I seek your podcast to spark motivation again. Is that a coping strategy? No, that's an adaptive strategy. Like, what am I trying to get out of this? Like, if I can listen, oh yeah, that podcast episode really got me fired up. I'll go back to that and see if it motivates me to actually take some action. That's totally fine. You just don't want to go to, I'm going to go back to listen to the podcast again because he makes me feel better when I'm afraid. Or if I face a scary thing, I want to hear this guy's voice in my ears while I do it. That you got to get away from. But yeah, if you could like, oh, I need some reminders of what I'm supposed to do. That's a good use of these type of resources, not just my podcast, but any podcast like this, not just my books, but any books like this. You return to them for information, for instruction, for inspiration, for encouragement, not for soothing. You have to be careful about that. I finally learned coping techniques are just ways to redirect your attention. They are in many instances. So in a lot of ways, some coping techniques are literally meant they're just eight zillion different forms of distraction and distraction with the intent of running away from your anxious state and your distressed state is not so helpful, but you almost can't navigate through an anxious state without using distraction in some way, shape or form. Almost everything we do that isn't going inward and ruminating and oh my God, and oh my God, I'm trying to fix almost anything else is some form of distraction. It's just what is the intent when you do that? So this is a good point to. Hello, Scotland. Good to see you. I did have a big shout out to Scotland. I guess it was Sunday or whenever it was on my Instagram stories just because there's a lot of people who are working really hard there and a couple of people had sort of reached out with some did it anyways and some success stories and I realized like you Scots are a hearty bunch and I appreciate you. I'm a fan. Let's see here. I used to try and solve the thoughts because I thought I could reduce the anxiety associated with them by doing so. Yeah, solving digging in. I got to find it. Sometimes that's a thing. This is one that's a little bit rough. I always listen to anxiety podcasts for reassurance that I'm okay. So let me I appreciate you using the word reassurance. So in the beginning when you are new to this and you have kind of never heard of this before and this is all new to you. Like, oh, I have to allow anxiety. I'm not supposed to manage it. I'm not supposed to treat it like I should hack my brain and body to fix it. I have to face it and float and accept and allow and surrender. Okay, this is where like the psycho education, the material that I put out and people like me helps you because it helps you get that base understanding of like, oh, this is what I have to do. But we care about when you keep going back to hear the same thing again and again and again. I'm triggered again. It feels real. One of the more common things like, oh, I'm having those thoughts again. So let me go listen again to the episode where Drew had Marty Sief on and we talked about thoughts not becoming impulses. At some point you have to recognize that you're revisiting the content again and again, just because now you suddenly don't believe that you're okay and you need to be told externally. At some point you have to say, well, I'm not going to do that. Or I'm going to back away from it for 15 minutes and just sit in this discomfort for 15 minutes and work my way through it. At the end of 15 minutes, if I still need to listen, I'll fire up the podcast episode. But if you delay that response for 15 minutes, you win because it's a different experience and you're starting to change direction a little bit. Again, a lot of insight here, knowing what you're doing, a lot of people don't even understand that that's problematic. So it's really, really good that you guys can see this. Let's see here. I debate. Is this distraction or distraction is good or bad? Hey, you know what? This is a tough one and let me go to this is where you watch me pound on a keyboard. What episode of disorder did we do? Distraction, episode 21 of Disordered, which is the podcast I do with Josh Fletcher. If you go to disorder.fm and check out episode 21, it's on distraction. This is a really hard thing for anybody to get a good grip on. And guess what? No matter how long you've been at the recovery game, you're going to get it wrong sometimes or look back after an experience and say, Oh, I guess I was running a little bit. Totally fine. We cannot absolutely black and white a hundred percent clearly define this is distraction. This is not distraction. Like I said before, anything that is not rumination and inward focus is some form of distraction. But am I looking to do a thing because I choose to do that thing instead of spending the next 15 minutes checking my pulse and going, Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Then your intent with that is good. I can do this thing while I am triggered as opposed to I'm going to go inward and just engage with the trigger for the next 20 minutes and then wonder why it's not ending. So it's a tough one. It's nuanced. We don't always get it right. Even when we get it perfectly right, we could probably make an argument that it's not perfectly right. So it's okay. You don't have to debate that. What can I do while I am feeling this way? How can I bring those feelings with me? And then go do that as best you can. That that's a good way to approach it. My husband will ask WTF meaning what's the fear? It brings me back to true reality versus panic and it works for me. It works to assess that there is actual danger. This is good. I like the end of this comment. Spoiler there never is. Yeah, that's true. WTF is kind of cool. What's the fear? And it's good. So, you know, big fist bump to your husband for working that out with you. Like what's the fear here? Oh, oh, yeah, the fear here is I'm thinking again that I'm never going to get better. Oh, okay. So you're you're afraid you're having a thought again or oh, I'm afraid again that I'm going crazy. Yeah, but oh, okay. That's what I'm afraid of right now and I've had that fear 67 times in the last 10 days. I'm going to have to let it ride. So very good. I like it. Let's see here. High-cast were definitely coping strategy for me or any any song video or pipe to drown out the anxiety. Very good. Again, a lot of insight here when you can start to realize that you're doing it, then you could start to make different choices. Hard, hard to make those different choices. Not easy, but you realize the habits and like, ooh, this isn't helping me and it takes everybody a while to get there. So if you've never seen me on video, you've never heard of the anxious truth. This is all new to you and you're thinking, this guy, what the hell is he talking about? He's going to take away my coping strategies. Everybody will start with a basket full of coping strategies. It's okay. And over time in the recovery process, we just start to drop them will become aware that like, oh, this isn't really helping me. It's saving me. So that's a good question. See sometimes these things come out on the fly. Is this saving me or is this helping me to get better? Good question. If you're trying to be saved, then reconsider because you've never needed to be saved. Weighted blankets get no love here. No, the weighted blankets get no love for me. I think weighted blankets. Listen, if you're having a super stressful day and you just feel like you like the way a weighted blanket feels, knock yourself out. I would. I don't want to take anybody's weighted blanket away. If you run for the weighted blanket every time you are in an anxious state, then then it becomes problematic. Again, today's topic when coping skills backfire. So yeah, that's a thing. Let's see here. Got to go do something hard and miss this driving on the fast road. Okay. So we have one of our friends Rebecca is out and doing a hard thing. So maybe she'll come back and and and join us again, but always love it when people are working hard like that. I'm in a situation as in company, I fake cramp or something so I can change my focus and it gives me an excuse to move or fidget. Let me put this up here. I'm not sure that I understand. So if you are around people, I fake a cramp or something so that it can change my focus or give me an excuse to move or fidget. Okay. Again, a huge amount of insight there. A huge amount. Look at the difference between when I'm triggered. I do this. I have to do this and treating it as if this is a good thing, right? No, no, no, because I had people who will literally especially again, if they're new to this and that's fine. Not trying to convert anybody here, but I've had people who sort of stumble upon my content who will challenge me because if I say, well, that's might not necessarily be helpful to get angry and I say, no, it's clear. This is a good thing, right? I get up on a fidget or here's another popular one that leads me to this to dance it out thing like here's how I somatically experienced my anxiety. Okay. I'm not trying to take away from the somatic experiencing crowd, but in, but if you've ever seen an influencer on social media show you how they wiggle and dance and shake to get rid of their anxiety or bring their anxiety down, tell me that it doesn't look like with somebody in the middle of a panic attack does. So that's a coping strategy. That's applicable for if you're just feeling anxious because life versus I'm feeling super triggered and panicky because I keep worrying that I might snap and hurt my children very, very, very different. And then it becomes a, I have to shake my arms and legs. So I don't do that. That's not helpful. But in this situation, the fact that you recognize that you're doing it means that you can start to maybe shift this a little bit. What would happen instead of automatically faking a cramp so that you can get up and hop around? What if you said, I'm going to wait another three minutes before I do that and see what happens. So again, the insight, the recognition is excellent. You guys are nailing this really good. Let's see here. Self awareness is key, but it's also a fine line because too much awareness triggers my panic. Good to be triggered. Like that's okay in this situation. We don't want, we don't want to get trapped also in like, well, I have to be careful of what I think about because I might trigger myself if I think about certain things. Get triggered. Go ahead. And when I say self awareness, I mean the awareness that you are engaged in escape and avoidance. That's what I mean. So, but this, this is, you got to rethink this a little bit too much awareness triggers my panic. Okay, cool. Then you have an opportunity to practice panicking. See how you'd want to flip that because otherwise you can lead you into like one of my, one of the ways that I cope with my anxiety is I'd be, I'm very careful to not think about myself. Yeah, but we all think about ourselves sometimes. That's not what a non-anxious person would do. So be careful about that. The podcast helped me as well, but in my opinion at some point you have to move on. I will not argue with that at all. In fact, I have said in the past, I made a joke before about like a podcast which helps people to not listen really the best day for somebody like me is the day you hit the unfollow button because it means you don't need me anymore. And like that, I wouldn't do this if, if I wasn't hoping that one day you'd get to that point. So, yeah, I mean, if, if one day you unfollow and you're not here watching the lives anymore, maybe we would probably miss you from a human standpoint or a friend standpoint, community standpoint, but that would, that's a good day for people like me. My coping skills are not working anymore. That's another thing that where coping skills can go off the rails. At some point, no matter what that coping skill is, tapping, sniffing, oh, I don't care. I can, I can name them forever, shaking and dancing and at whatever it is. At some point, you will encounter panic, a trigger, life will trigger you to a level that overrides and overwhelms your coping strategies. So one of the common themes in this community is I thought I was doing so great because whenever I would panic, I would get an ice cold glass of water, I would drink it really quick. I would chew gum, put ice on my thing, call my partner and it would stop. I would be good after about five or 10 minutes. And then you get triggered to the point where the ice cold water doesn't work and then your brain goes into overdrive explosive mode. It's not working this time. Oh my God, it's not working this time. Very common. So the rituals, the first time the ritual doesn't immediately work, it almost immediately becomes useless. I don't know if you guys can relate to that. So if you have panic rituals that you think or anxiety rituals that you think these save me. The first time it doesn't save you, it almost immediately starts to erode and become useless, which is something you might be able to relate to. Oh my God. And then I'm losing coping strategies one by one. It didn't work. Can't use that one anymore. Got to find a new one. It didn't work. Can't use that one anymore. Got to find a new one. It's the same mechanism that says if I have a panic attack on the highway, I won't drive on the highway. Well, if I tap and it didn't work this time, it means that tapping no longer works and I have to abandon that and go to something else. Very, very, very common. Let's see. I found to help focus on accepting feelings, body scan meditation and tapping. I tried to use them as a relaxing time as a break or as a break. So, okay, I'm going to throw this up here because I have now like chosen violence and viciously attack tapping multiple times. If in your relaxation time of the day, your downtime, your wine time, you enjoy tapping, then tap. That's okay. Just I am not a fan of doing those things because I have to do them when I'm anxious. That's all. So I just wanted to throw this up on the screen because I know that I have been swinging the sword pretty heavily at the tapping crap. I do not mean to disrespect your belief. I just that's one of the most common coping strategies that goes off the rails and then it stops working and people want to know why and then they're just heartened. Like I thought I had it under control with my tapping. It was the greatest thing ever until it wasn't. So that's the only reason I want to mention that. I use them as relaxing time or as a break. Cool. Totally fine. Like I said, if you want to go home after a long day of work or maybe, you know, it's just been a really tough week. It's a Friday night and you want to get under a weighted blanket, read a book and tap and put on soft music and candles. I'm with you. Totally fine. Everybody's entitled to relax, decompress, you know, release their stress. Totally fine. Totally fine. I was using my phone as a distraction. Then I came to know that it was wrong and I have to set my feelings and accept them. It is difficult. This is good. Like the phone, I don't even know where my phone is. Not even in the room. But yeah, those little magic rectangles that we all carry around our hands, they can become coping strategies really quickly, games, scrolling, social media, text a friend, listen to podcasts, whatever. Good point. But again, eliminating these coping strategies or starting to drop them or at least put them back from ritual to coping like healthy adaptive coping strategy little by little and you're going to stumble. You're going to get it wrong sometimes. Be nice to yourself. Be patient. We don't just, oh, Drew told me not to do my coping strategies anymore. So I just won't. I think it's really hard to do that. You won't be able to do that. You're going to have to do little by little by little. So it's a thing. Let's see. You're trying to refocus when that happens is so challenging. It is. This is good. Let's throw a respelling garage up on the screen. Jason's always here for a good comment. No coping strategy is the best coping strategy that I would agree with do nothing. I next week Joanna Hardis is going to be on the podcast with me. She wrote a book that's coming out called just do nothing and yeah, there's something to be said for that. I always like to say that you when you are triggered, you could do something or you could do nothing. Something is instinctual, but nothing is better. And believe it or not, nothing is faster than something has ever ridiculous. Like just if you took that clip completely out of context, people were like, what is this guy talking about makes no sense. But when triggered, nothing is faster and better than something, even though something is more likely of response because we think we're supposed to do something, right? So, you know, don't just stand there, do something in our context. We flip that. Don't just do something, stand there. Something to think about. It's a thing, but also no coping strategy. Doing nothing is also an active process. I mean, I'm telling you, this stuff will break your brain if you get too far into it. JP is also on Long Island. I am a fellow data center panic sufferer, especially when the Unix box was down. I will tell you what JP and I know you might you probably get this. I would fix the Unix all day long. Give me a Windows NT box or, you know, a Windows server that was dead. Oh, that was bad. I'll be honest with you and not to get too, too like one on one with JP here who understands. When I knew that I had to go to my old data center and I knew that the customer was Windows based, my level of anticipatory anxiety was much higher because I knew it was going to take longer to fix. That's just the thing. It was true. Don't just do something. Sit there. There you go. I forgot Dave actually said that you could try small behavioral experiments. Correct. The answer to all these questions is whether you're living the life you want to live. Yeah, some of this is, you know, how do I know if it's a if it's a coping strategy? How do I know if it's a compulsion? How do I know if it's avoidance? You know, one of the overriding things that we talk about in recovery and in this community is that recovery is a long one long march from being guided by fear to being guided by your principles and your values and what you actually want in life. So what moves me closer to living a value driven life? What is really important to me and moves me away from a fear driven life? Right? So a fear driven life is that one that says, Oh, I have to respond to fear by soothing it immediately because I can't handle fear. So there's something to be said for that value thing. Active Directory is the devil. Active Directory. 100%. Let's see here. You know what else is this? The devil is Windows raid. Windows raid. I can't tell you the number of times that we had to call a customer. This is getting way off the rails. Rebit isn't here. I cannot tell you the number of times I would have to get on the phone with a customer somewhere in the world at two o'clock in the morning and tell them that their raid container was hosed and there was literally nothing you could do about it. Windows raid only. I still have flashbacks. Not good. Don't let these compulches and coping strategies be substituted. You can drop them by little. I've had a few experiences of extreme anxiety and each time I think my coping skills in revolved around reassurance. But when I am well, I find it hard to just believe what I'm told. So I'm guessing it makes sense. That would be okay. It's a big comment. It's true sometimes. So cope reassurance is coping is what somebody in the Facebook group said. It's just a huge comment. So I'm not going to put it up. Coping strategies that revolve around reassurance seeking, which could be I'm going to go back to the podcast episodes. I'm going to go back to the videos. I'm going to go to my online support group and ask, does anybody else? Are you sure this is just anxiety? Are you sure I'm okay? Coping strategies based on reassurance are very, very common. Dropping them is really hard because when you are in the midst of it, you don't believe it. You just don't believe like that you're okay, but the win there is like, well, I don't believe that I'm okay, but I'm going to have to roll the dice and act like I am and see what happens. Um, this is a hundred percent true. And his book Dave Carbonell wrote. He said he liked his clients to be triggered. Yeah, I kind of want people to be triggered. I hate to say that because it sounds like some sort of sadistic thing. And again, taken out of context, I have been told that I am a horrible cruel individual that clearly never understood what panic and anxiety feels like if I want you to be triggered, but you literally cannot fix this problem without getting triggered and being and learning to move through that. You can't do it. Um, that's a hard no for me. A lot of people will think, well, okay, I want to apply these principles, but I also want to try to do it and never ever be triggered. Can that work? I don't think it can work. You can only rewire. I would say rewire your brain over simplified. You can only rewire your Olympic system when it is activated. So. Oh, cool. We got a new bot. Let me go down and block this person real quick. And it's a block list. Goodbye. Goodbye, buzzing SK. So let me keep popping up here and see what else we got. Um, something went wrong. I don't think anything went wrong. Um, I find it hard to use coping skills as my body won't stop fidgeting. Well, it's okay. Um, let's put this up real quick. Uh, my body won't stop fidgeting when I'm feeling this way. That's okay. Like remember that when your body is fidgeting it is essentially like, Hey, I am feeling anxious and afraid and my body is doing anxious and afraid things. So fidgeting is one of those things. Like when your body is full of adrenaline and cortisol, you're going to want to fidget. It's okay. So be careful about this statement. I can't use coping skills because I'm fidgeting. Okay, fidget. Go ahead and fidget. It's okay to fidget. You trying to stop the fidgeting to be better is not really going to help you. Again, my body is doing what anxious and afraid bodies do. It's supposed to fidget right now. So it's okay to do that. Um, let's see here. It's just Dave Carbonell. Yeah, let's see. Tapping can be tricky. Let's put Sarah back up here. Sarah, I'm sorry. I went after you on the tapping. I didn't go off the tapping that hard. I hope a therapist told me about it to stop panic. I would sit in my office panicking and tapping. It did not help. Yeah, that's tough. I'm sorry that you had to do that. I love this though. I use it to relax in times before bed. Awesome. Love that very healthy adaptive strategy. I can relax by tapping when I'm not anxious and triggered. So good job with that. Good job moving it from a train wreck to something that you can use. I really appreciate that. Really good. Active Directory is totally the devil. There's no doubt. Oh God, these people, these people, I cannot tell you. I finally had to respond to them and say, please stop asking me to promote the thing. Don't buy this. Don't buy that. You don't need that. The commie go. In fact, I'm just going to flat out tell you if you're talking about coping strategies and if you are, you know, combing the internet furiously and here's the bad part about coping strategies that can be sold to you. If you're watching this stream and you listen to my podcast and you follow me on Instagram or Facebook, the algorithm knows and isn't it amazing that if you scroll through Facebook and Instagram, you will find anxiety related stuff. It is very, very rare that you should ever click on any of those. They are not healthy coping strategies to buy devices and oils and pills that are supposed to magically calm you down. Magnetic devices are seen all of it. So it makes me angry. Let's see here. Is that a book? It's a twitch bot. Sometimes I say to myself, so what? This is powerful. This is super powerful. Gina, I love this. I say to myself, so what? Help me through a biopsy. The ultimate panic situation. Yeah, and that's like a real actual like stressful life thing. You have to go through a biopsy like anybody would be anxious and apprehensive about that. So what is a hugely powerful response? So is even if when your brain is screaming, what if I will even if I can handle it even if I'll do the best they can even if and the other powerful super powerful response to these some of these scary thoughts and sensations is maybe well, what if this time? Maybe I can't be sure. So maybe I'll just have to let this play out and do the best I can with it. So I love this. Gina. Thank you for putting it up. Very, very powerful. Hard, hard to get there. Hard to do so what we don't we only can we can only learn at first when you say so what you're completely not believing it and sort of faking it. Totally fine. But over time, the practice with things like so what maybe even if it starts to get better over time at first you're saying something you totally do not believe and faking it. But that's okay. That's how we start. Let's see here. Let's see had to face. No coping medicine really and I'm still here. This has to go up. Wait, where is it? Here it is. Like I said before, so Rebecca was out doing a hard thing while we were chatting and here she is back to tell the tale. So everybody a big thumbs up for our friend Rebecca who did did a hard thing. Not far, but I was triggered as I knew it would be had to face the sensations. No coping mechanisms available really, but to be with it. I'm still alive. We're happy to hear that very well done. We had to did it anywhere live in like live under the on the live stream and ask that rather than that. Good job, Bex. I feel like a healthy coping cool toolkit is best used when you're not feeling anxiety. Yes, love it all about this. Sorry, can't see your name again. Healthy coping toolkit is best used when you are not feeling anxiety seems like better preventative made and sure self care full of cool things like bubble baths or exercise or lifting weights or peddling a bicycle or reading poetry or singing your favorite songs. I am a fan of all of the things that make us feel good and reduce our stress levels and connect us to parts of life in the universe that we love and value. All of them are good just they don't they not good in a triggered state. That's the only the only problem except when we start to move toward the things that we love while we're in the triggered state and not to get away from it. Very good. Excellent comment. The most difficult for me was to do nothing by myself as I went about my day. My anxiety was in present as I was busy at work. Sure. That's a big deal. So more is saying the talking about how difficult it is for so many people to go into the downtime part of the day right where maybe you're alone or work is over or it's the weekend or you're on vacation. Anxious school teachers like any anxious school teachers in the house today. Anxious school teachers dread summer vacation sometimes like when the school term ends and you have that six weeks or eight weeks off whatever it is downtime. This is bad. This is really bad. So I get that. That's very very common whereas we talk all the time about the challenge of having to go do things. Many people also have the opposite challenge. If I don't have anything to do then I am triggered and have to move through the difficult things. So good comment. All right guys. I think we've sort of beat the coping strategies. You know horse to death here. The takeaway from today is am I trying to do something that helps me navigate through and teaches me that I am capable even though I used to believe for sure that I'm not or am I trying to save myself. If a coping strategy or a coping tool is used in an urgent fashion you're probably using it as a safety or escape or avoidance device or a ritual. If a coping strategy is used to save you you're probably using it in a compulsive ritualized escape type thing. If a coping strategy is used because it helps you stand up face this music that's in front of you and experience the fact that you can handle it and I'm a huge fan of it and it is teaching you the lesson that you need to take with you down the road when the experience is over. If I can look back and say I handled that I did that and I get the credit right. I get the credit not the oil not the tapping not the rubber band not my partner not anything else I did it you are winning. That's the best lesson you could ever learn in recovery because that is a lesson that gets us out the door gets us where we want to be. So that is it for this week's live stream. You don't tell you about to I haven't really talked about this as much as I put it up on the screen. So for those of you who may be watching who are struggling with friends and family support because your friends and family do not understand this just as a quick plug. Yes, this is a workshop for sure. I did not expect this to be such a heavily requested topic but I'm doing a workshop on September 22nd or whatever heck it is that is designed specifically for you and your loved ones your friends your partner your family members to help them understand more so that they can understand a little bit better how to help you. It's it's not for the person who is not interested in helping you or is abusing you and mistreating you it's not that but if your friends and family are frustrated or confused there's conflict there because they don't really understand the mechanics here and they want to help you but they don't really get it. This workshop that I'm doing you can go to the anxious treat that com family is designed specifically for that it's two hours for you guys to watch together. And I think if you hold the spot before September 8th there's even an extra little seven or eight minute video that explains to your people why you can't just get over it. So it's a little extra bonus there. Hopefully if it helps check it out. If it's if it's useful to you you're welcome to join again. It's on September 22nd but replays are available forever once you sign up and that's it. So this will stay on the YouTube channel in a playlist called recovery Monday. If you're not subscribed on YouTube you should probably do that. It'll stay on Facebook and in the Facebook group too. But I feel like it is impossible to find old videos in those places. So just subscribe on YouTube if you want to come back to these. Thanks for hanging out. We're not doing it on Monday next Monday because we do these every other week but we are doing that we're do it a week from Monday we'll be back Wednesday on the anxious truth podcast. We are talking about that thing where you say can you talk more about so we're going to unpack that request. Can you talk more about that's on Wednesday and what is on disordered. I forget what disordered is on Friday. Can't remember oh disordered episode on Friday is a really great one. It's called did it anyway round one. It's an entire episode of did it anyways where people have sent in their wins and their successes. Josh and I go through them and we sort of unpack them and kind of point out the lessons in each one. That was so much fun to do so look for that on Friday too. And yeah and you know what how about we do a live stream tomorrow and we'll talk about Windows RAID software RAID Unix versus Windows Windows. I used to be a free BST guy for those of you like like you know in the room that know what that is. I was a free BST guy before I was a Linux or Unix guy so that tells you how far back I go. Anyway guys thanks for hanging out I appreciate it and yeah I'll see you on the podcast podcast see on social media see in two weeks another live stream have a good day.