 So good afternoon, good evening. We will now start the last panel of this day, which is from the local to the global perspective Lesbians in Catalonia, I will be facilitating this panel and Basically, I will now introduce the panelists and I'm happy because we are all women So I will introduce them and their trajectories We've got to the left of Marseille Odero Vidal She has a degree in philosophy and Philology here With a chair in Latin at this university. She's also a feminist activist. She's currently Doing great work at Caladona and the feminist network and Other feminist organizations like Boyotin Theoria and She's doing a great job in Catalonia also She's also a translator and Literary editor and she's member of the National Council HDTBI of Catalonia We also have Maria Pia. She's a feminist activist as well. She fights for the rights of women Lesbians, bisexuals and trans. She's a counsellor Spokeswoman of Esquerra La Policana de Catalonia left-wing party at the Hortaginaldo District of Barcelona and then we have Maria Girald to my left. She's a Historic activist. She organized the first lesbian collective in Spain The and she's a member of the Fronda Liberament Gaye de Catalonia The Gay Liberation Front of Catalonia She joined the feminist movement afterwards and she's just promoted the lesbian networking El Cruz and El Zenda and LGBT Lab where she's working currently at Gaelas TV and She's also they also prepare the Aliquales report, which is a manual report which is the vice-president of the LGTBI chamber and Director of and based of the Pride Social Barcelona I'm the president of the family the organization family's LGTBI and LGTBI dot cat and I will facilitating the panel asking questions to the panelist and Facilitating these panel which will not be a set of presentations. I will just ask to Ask you to just take the floor and say your piece On account of the questions and then if there's anything else you want to say, please do so First question from me is what has been your path your trajectory as women with dissident sexualities just to set the Environment is the context starting point Good evening. I believe I should start because my age At first of all, I would like to thank the organization for the invitation and I would like to thank you For being here with us sharing This evening. I was here at this university for 20 years from 1964 to 1984 and I never had anything about lesbians or gays or anything like that I mean, I had some things but Nothing like that. I mean You don't want to know what was the environment of the university on those graze years of The dictatorship first time Someone publicly spoke about lesbianism in this university and the law of social Danger and so on was in the first Sessions of women in 1966 last week My and it was like the starting point of the feminist movement after the dictatorship that was in 1976 and We know there was feminism here before that we perfectly knew Who were the women from terminal? Carmacal do lots of them. I mean we we've been keeping track of them Wasn't easy, but we had the militias the women from 36, but when we got there We didn't really know about that because again, no one would ever speak about that And I'm saying this because when they ask what's your background? I should start saying that somehow my Conscience and The awareness of feminine Sexuality and it's multiple manifestations up to 1976. We didn't really know Anything so that's why I have always fought for Sexual effective training in schools and everywhere so from that point on When these awareness started to raise and to appear You know today we they talk about intersectionality like women and lesbians well, then feminist lesbians lesbian feminist and with Captain walking from there So that's just a starting point because I'm here. I would also like to share a memory A Remembrance of all the colleagues male and female colleagues that has been here in any Imaginable closet in this University. I would like to see them here sitting here with us because we've gone through rough times and Maybe now would be a nice time for celebration I guess I should continue Since I was 14 I've known I like women. I didn't know about the word dissident, but yes, I guess I'm dissident since I was 14 and Because I wanted to be normal. I started studying psychology When I was 17 Perfect So I started studying the well psychology to understand what everything was about and by chance I Might not be here otherwise and they were Holding this presentation of the Gay Liberation Front of Catalonia That was the school of psychology when it was located next to the Barcelona football stadium The University campus. It was crowded. It was a huge crowd there and at the end of presentation I went to the table and I asked whether they had women in the Organization too, but they said well, they gave me this Dine-A for this sheet of paper, you know With Text on it with 30 names and I started Calling each one of them out of these 30 people. I Got in touch with 10 which is quite a high Percentage out of those 10 of these 10 people actually these 10 women we met in Plaza Catalonia Where the knock store is now located and that's where the first lesbian collective started within a Gay organization in this case. It was the Catalonia Liberation Front FAC. So we Held meetings for a year or so with divergences and so on and this agreement and We ended up with Gretel Aman. She was a radical feminist at that point the word radical Had its original meaning which is going to the wood unfortunately now Lydia Falcón has Stolen the term I do not agree with that, but anyways we would meet at Carre Riareta number 8 in Barcelona and that's where everything started and All the way to the present day We'll not give the floor to Laura Why you am from a different generation, but I was in the closet for a long time as well as a little girl I remember I had girlfriends because there were no labels for us. So I would be with girls and Boys and I thought it was bisexual But then when I grew older as a teenager I went back to the closet because of pressure and all the relationship I had Afterwards where with men, but it didn't they didn't really work Something told me it wasn't working and I did not have any reference when I was in high school I didn't meet any gay man or lesbian Woman I'm from 1993. I could look younger, but Anyway, when I was 20 something I really got out of the closet I fell in love with my best friend after 15 years together and The truth is At home I've had a safe space, but I could Be myself that's a privilege and I know I'm fortunate because of that But not it's not the same thing socially. I have not had references and I couldn't Talk with colleagues and friends about that but then at some point all of my friends we all Came out of the closet and we all we all teamed up Also as a teenager I started finding a socialization Spaces as a collective. I don't know if it's very different, but it's my experience anyway You can keep on speaking. I can you know, want some questions now and then but what Encouraged you to make you visible this last bit make yourself seen Well, the thing is not that you make yourself seen but for others to see you so, you know identify you as such even if you think that you just Just live your life and and just go about your things Without explicitly saying anything, you know, sometimes time because people are kind At least in some peer environment But that's what it but what that's what it is about so about this is like visualization it just takes time and It's like over time you eventually become the Big less than the old lesbian that's kind of the Title you get And then you know for women what's important It's the feeling of Belonging to a group and finding Help and support in your friends and your lovers and set up organizations Because lesbianism is an experience is a way of life. It is a pleasure. It is a will, but it is also a policy Particularly at some point in moments you really need to go for that political option and that is where organizations for instance at Caladona when the feminist lesbian group came up with the Magazine trivadas or when the younger lesbians from the violet axis came up Well from this You know this cushion. There's an organizational shelter in which We were all side by side. That's what encouraged us to Make ourselves seen Also with these you know this Disabilization which is always related to a political alternative That's something else is possible that another world is possible in a different way of seeing things and about greater landmen From the documentation center of Caladona. We can't really believe How this woman on her own Got herself this very Significant historic conscience and she would keep everything personal impersonal Everything she could like the napkins from the day she would go out for dinner and All of that is important today. I mean we're talking about history here and having this reference points in time It's very significant because it's good to have significant It's good to have reference points among spears at a certain point But also recognizing acknowledging this genealogy and for young lesbians to know they are not the first ones They are the only ones and they have All these history of this precious documentation because it really explains a Load of things for instance about this stage This period which is so challenged in question now, which is the transition to democracy We had in this country so based on these kind of document what we feminist Call and say that the private is public and it's political we can really dig out a great deal of things So that's the kind of visualization we have which is individual that one regard But it's also collective. It's also joined and Do you think that? historical fund this File you have this archive. Do you think it is disseminated enough? well, it's based on voluntary work, of course, and it Comes with a lot of work once you have the materials and the documentation all Sort it out in boxes that that's quite a lot when everything is filed because we had this unfitting archive with the Whole meaning of of the of the word because everything was not fitted in boxes and because this file this archive was Not in order when compared to the tradition of notarial Files and archives you know They're put away all the wheels and contracts the files and archives of social movements are Of a different character completely and some days ago. It was the World Day of archives and there's a lot of talk on the importance of archives and the importance of Memory because people talk about identity and the memory and then everyone panics about Alzheimer's and It's all together the same package and we are really aware of the value of what we've got in those file cabinets at Caledonia it's a It's a true jewel, but you really need to Sort everything out. We also know that things on paper will only last for so long so everything should be digitized and so on actually We are so much an institution here that we Request money from the institutions to digitize our archive And I had to seize the opportunity Well, it is important because the history of the elder TBI movement has been written by men Very few people know for instance, there was this character Mr. Nellie David Lee who was really important in Cornwall She was a lesbian. She was a performer singer she would Also cross-dress and she was rested because she was mistaken for a man and she said Are you not going to do anything and that's Where the riots started we were she actually punched the police officer as well, but anyway That's when the whole thing started there and she's never mentioned I mean they mention other people like Marsha and so on but Lavernie and she's got this lovely name is to me the Lavernie, but still She's often forgotten This is like the manifest we did from the lesbian collective It's never mentioned The I mean the manifest or the fact that the lesbian collective existed now There's starting to be some talk about it, but even our partners in the movement have not really Underlined it because it was something Just about women and I love them. I love my foreman colleagues idea the original Catalonia Liberation Gay Front Gay Liberation Front, but You really need to express these things out and it really needs to say we've been here We are here. We've been here for a long time and we'll keep on being here because our work is indispensable by the way, the manifest Maria is talking about is the one that was read in the Niza theater in the fall of 1977 and we have it in our archive, so no worries Actually, I came out of the closet thanks to Politics and the fact of being able of generating safe space safe spaces for even for me It was about finding out and discovering the associations and I felt empowered to come out of the closet and That's what I think too when I started digging into history Nothing about bisexuals, but also when I would look for lesbians. I didn't find anything and it's Even now difficult to find things and this is something we need to do from many places also for younger generations my sister for instance, she's 20 And I'm saying this on a positive note many people on her classroom Lesbians or bisexuals they do not speak it out because it's normal for them But they know about this but they don't know about this whole history. They don't really know about how Hard the struggle was to get to the point to where they are and I believe that's important I also believe that references are Important I'm here and I'm so happy to be surrounded by references such as you and Thanks to the fact that I got into the world of associations I've had you as references struggling and fighting and raising awareness and I believe There should be many more. I was talking about this with Barbara There should be many more women just raising up and then speaking up and We need to go through this Visibilization process of course in the beginning you have to accept things yourself at first. I was my process at least I had to accept myself Not judging myself. I didn't want to be pigeonboxed. Anyway It's not like you need to have this label like you have this social need to put a label on yourself because otherwise what are you going to tell people and in my case I really needed to Say it out to to express myself and to come out of the closet because I had had many heterosexual relationships before that and also the gender expression. We have not said this but for instance my partner she has these Dyke as you could say expression the way she The image she sells out, but I don't and I believe there's not much Talk about this about the gender expression and this could also have an impact on heterosexual women, you know, it's not like you're walking on the street and he called you they call you a dyke and you're not and We need to make that visible because women we are so diverse and the gender expression We send out doesn't have to be a label Well in my case for instance, I did come out of the closet, but to save myself from a situation of sexual harassment You know my bosses, they're very nice and whatever, but they wanted to they were hinting at me And they were flirting with me and I said I'm sorry, but I like women. So that's the way That's that's how I came out of the closet but From that point on they started to talk to me as if I was a guy like about their flirts and And dates and so on and it's like I don't really need to hear all of that. But anyway And In my case, I don't think they were surprised But it was kind of a defense mechanism But it wasn't unintentionally back to this sub alternate vision you were in the Beginning of the of the rays of Gay and lesbian movements, but why didn't you have why lesbians didn't have a more relevant role in the beginning? Well, actually we were at the first real Transversal like cross Demonstration with gay people lesbian people trans people Feminist students Tritoninist Neighbor association representatives everyone was there and people who would join us on the street 4500 people which was a lot of the point at that time. So why why did this happen? Well It was actually 10 of us versus 100 men 10 lesbian women there were no Cross-dressers or trans and then Gretel said he will come to us He will come to us because the struggle is the same because we're all homosexual You know, she would give us that giggle and she would say you will come to us and we did eventually Yes, because there's some synergist some sexist patriarchal synergist here That float and keep on flowing. Unfortunately Amongst our gay colleagues And it's like that we Experience that in society as a whole experiences it and gay couldn't be any different And for instance the signs of nazario which were beautiful But his signs, you know the sign for the gay liberation front did not represent us because it was to phallocentric And they would say like you Lesbians just half a small penis and some things like that because it was the lakinian period when everyone would talk about laken and so on so At the end in the end that we just left She's laughing because she knows what she said that to me, but it's okay because it's uh, there's a family But anyway, we left this organization this movement and I believe that they never forgot it They never forgave us for that like armando phobia For instance, he would never he will never mention us. He never does and that's why you have to say it But I really love them too. Anyway, and uh, so And I'm talking to my second year. We lesbians Found shelter in the feminist movement, right? well, that's One of those issues You know the lesbophobia of the feminist movement and some Colleagues here can talk about it Better because they've worked on it and sometimes you don't even realize it's one of those feelings But it's true. However that in order for the feminist movement to Make progress or we needed to give a good phase. We couldn't tear things down It's like lesbians would think we'll discuss this later And this was always latent there in the background to this issue this feeling that in pro-abortion demonstrations are all feminist lesbians would be there and Instead when the calls the demonstrations were just for lesbians. They were only the lesbians there So this is one of the feelings The feminist movement has Has self-analyzed from the inside somehow And well, however the Relationship has always existed. We have never Never broken that down and the lesbians in the feminist Have always had a place in the feminist movement and at least That's the way I like to think it's been of course it depends on the personal experience of everyone Something that has been a little more difficult within the feminist movement also for feminists has been the intergenerational dialogue You know at some point you had this lesbian young lesbians pushing forward And in this inside the group of feminist lesbians They prepared this document which was presented in the days in Granada It was called this vanishes was called the the dress of the empress and They were already criticizing the things The way things were and of course it's never easy, but I think that now at this point we are quite content and Grateful and all together just in case Well much like here We know that there are some people Drivers and facilitators and one of the most active groups is the known as boyos in teoria, which would be theoretical dykes kind of and Yeah, they say again dykes, but theoretically and there were dykes in theory and there are discussions on every Saturday morning and then we go over some things that we believe are very interesting where some of us Read through let's say ancient texts where we read monic vittic text for instance or Lesbians whether they are women or not. There's so this type of topics and some readings that are Really powerful until you Reach the present performance You can we go over this So whenever they call for these the day of pride and well I think that being Feminist lesbian is something that you can really be proud of. Yes. I am Yeah a week ago. I was rereading some manuscripts by grattle And they were so updated indeed. They were so modern. I mean You could research that because She was looking at the way that other feminist groups were using the terms and from psychology from The mastery of language. I would say that I was really something very updated very Yeah, what Maria is saying and by grattle Is is something that we really need to be well aware of Women whether we're lesbians or not in not trying to become a subject of research Or the object of research we want to be a subject because Some topics become fashionable and often since they have not very very much research then at the university level or Whatever level like it's like labor and women or healthcare and women. So You get my point and this is something that Gretel already perceived. It's not like We lesbians can only talk about lesbianism It's not reaching that extreme but we need to be aware in that It's not like you shall not name God in vain. Well, you should not name lesbianism in vain Yes, it's true that when they say like healthcare and women or medicines and women So meaning that medicine was in the hands of men back then So language Terminologies really perverted and that was something that grattle really mastered along these lines What How do you think that we should relate or should Establish links with other struggles for instance against racism or the struggle for care the struggle for housing What might be the role of lesbian women in these kinds of struggles? well At first when we said that back in the demonstration in 1977 everyone came It was like there was talk by omniom association on these shared struggles. Well, why not Having these all in once more, but then this brings to my mind that famous intersection intersectionality But that seems to be the last lesson because first we were going through cross sectionality now We're talking about intersectionality and The problem is that often these are just terms in that We are so fed up or Being told about these intersectionality cross culturality or interculturality, but at the end of the day How are we making things happen? What are we doing? And Let me add another topic here. I'm seeing I mean to some concern in my view And how in the academia or in the university Wasn't such a setting where we are now How there is a line of discontinuity Between the queer movement and the LGBT Movement, let me explain myself As if the queer movement has just appeared even though it was like 20 30 years ago and these contrasting opposing the work being done from the LGBTI movement So it's seen as something opposed as something which is discontinuous And I would think that this is dangerous Even more so when stemming from the academia Gender studies LGBTI studies Barcelona are taking place since 93 where the first comparisons that is started of 93 the Autonomous University of Barcelona and then some years later here at the University of Barcelona, but there is This discussion which is not a discussion brother. It's more like a confrontation. I would say it's dangerous in that When these pours out into the society People read it the way they do and They end up by having this reductionism approach and finding young people that Identify themselves as queer and what I mean, that's great because we're all queer. We're all dissident no matter our age But they are against the pride they and so I mean, I'm the director of the pride now. Maybe I will not be in some years time, but but again I'm gonna be I think it's a bit of a pity to see these and I think that this shows some lack of Accountability by the academia in conveying these sense of duality to other society as if there were some bad guys and good guys, but What we are seeing now in catalonia in spain most of what we now have has been through the role of the trans gay Lesbians and it's after the stra after their struggle to make these laws possible so To tear these down well Maybe we should start thinking what we are doing in the academia in the university, but later we'll see how some political parties and Some left-wing parties even or ruling parties that Look at the square part this younger part and they promote it in a way as if to have a negative impact on the usual lgbti movements because It leaves them just plain naked out in the wild and And no one's daring saying what I'm saying Out here, but anyway Maybe because I have my age, but I think we need to Make this clear and probably I'm sure that this is turning all good faith and no no doubts on that, but We should read Judith battler some more. She's a wise person She's telling us that in the Times we are Where where this is related to on on our planet and on the water on the forest and what are we to do with the seas Solidarity Judith battler says that we have to be caring We have to be supportive. It doesn't mean that we need to love to one another or to Lay in bed to one another, but we need to know where our enemy is and that's very simple to understand And it's the enemy is not amongst us is outside. So Anyway without taking up more time just wanted to make this point well on that From a different generation. I think that we should try to run away from fats and that often And I can tell you because I'm very much into social media And then all of a sudden you see these new naming new labeling and sometimes these detracts From the movement. I mean I've been in training in these communities and People say why labeling yourselves and then you go into these naming thing and this labeling part And maybe what you are now talking about it's because I mean as a teenager myself I did not know about the history of the lgbtq movement and Sure, there are some young people that are very much attracted to it that maybe too much and maybe they have this lack of sense of belonging and maybe this eventually is sort of A fat to them But it's also in my view Because they are lacking the true awareness on what's been done And they would like to believe in a utopia And that where you need no labeling where you need no tagging not saying that that might not be the future But maybe now it is not so Well, but maybe we should start by reading to the puzzler and discussing as all amongst us and We need to do that because I don't think it's just a fashion I don't think it's just a fact or I think it's more like a natural evolution in the movement back in 77 where we were together but things are changing now and bringing in new acronyms new letters And we have the Intersex they didn't want to be there, but here we have them. So anyway it's Non-binary is it's here that we have non-binary people Judith Butler herself She claims not to be she claims to be non-binary, but that was something that was not Here some 20 years ago. Well, now you can be non-binary I don't think it's just a fact as such but maybe trends and the issue is on if you And then this is something that you can see in the social media and I would say mostly in twitter don't know what happens with people on twitter They go crazy and they can ruin your life if you say Something like we have expressed here Just a fraction of it You would be brought to the gallows and by the by an angry mob then so people refrain from Stating their views apparently we're in a society where we this is a free society not like in franco's regime, but now We are more coarse than ever. We don't seem to Reflect on things we take many things for granted and people just follow their some motives. So You are a left-minded person You need to work for a true democracy and then can only be provided by education by training and I think it's crucial and it's very important because otherwise the rest just wouldn't work Let me go back to because I know you kind of digress onto many topics, but Let me ask you a thing And this is a question for the three of you if any Which have been the major claims by lesbian? well one of the major claims one of the major things that we have indicated is the Ownership the of our own body and that's No, the view would they say the agenda? and That would be like one Thing would be the same sex marriage and that was one of the milestones And we and the group of feminist lesbians We believe that marriage were still in patriarchy that would strengthen patriarchy another milestone Like We lesbians should have children should have the possibility of having children that was another milestone and lesbians to be able to Have their children with the family names of both Mothers So there have been some stepping stones some milestones that were clear in the agendas But again, these aren't just the tips of the iceberg And then you have what's beneath the surface and again as maria was saying Like How are we to approach education? How are we to approach co-education? What are we to do if there is no sexual effective? Education at schools. What if you still face these sexist kind of bullying? So one thing are the claims that can be put in the agenda sort of and then a different thing would be That we will always be lacking some more there is some room to go and we need this proper recognition of of history When maria was talking about clear Like for instance when they come to research one ass and they come to Look for queer material. Well, and we say we don't have Queer material because back in the 70s or 80s we had none and so They look at to the documents or the materials of the 70s and 80s and they say well, this is queer So because when you were saying these that that's something that stuck in my mind in what attack is What a label is and what a reality is Yes, because in the united states for instance I mean like queer we're all queer in that we're all Outcasts we are all different Yeah, yeah, sorry. I went back in time and Kathy's question was different But then I'm slowly minded. So I had this stuck in my mind well On what Kathy was asking I think that this Invisibility of lesbian women is just a myth just a legend because we can be found everywhere. I mean really everywhere We are at the cashiers desk at the supermarket. We are teachers were and Last week a document uh Um festival done on every five years in castle the most prestigious art show and The group in charge of all the documents is a group of five lesbian women in the past country They Do not well people do not know that they are lesbians I mean they are not seen as a role model, but here you have them or teachers There are many teachers who are lesbians and So we're everywhere, but then We have not made ourselves so visible in the lgbtq Movement because we have these dual As ceiling as lesbians and as women then we Seem to Sip down the cracks and that's where you can find us So you're saying that we are facing these dual ceiling as lesbian women even though You were at the front At the gay liberation front. It was more difficult to you as lesbian women But that not just something that They men would understand because they wanted to promote that back then and we had to kind of Uh Tail them and Doing these work in a more silent way. Yes, indeed and many lesbian women that would not dare saying they were so they found in feminism the Right the ideal showcase to be there without expressing themselves as lesbian, but rather as feminist To prevent these dual stigma. Yes. Yes well My generation one of the things there is much talk about are the anti-concept methods the Men seem to have quite much and we don't have that much and we are also not that much protected against std's It's not like a condom and this is a topic that's not been much discussed And whenever we have sexual relationships among women, we have very Many doubts and for the younger people. I think that this is something that should be promoted and researched And furthermore is really expensive. I'm saying so because now And the pride are we under the motto boy your mommy the mommy dyke so we've had to Buy some of these which are really expensive methods and I'm not sure how much a condom is Have any idea but I think that ours are like four times more expensive and so And they are unknown to many in like If you do not know how you can protect yourself and you do not know how to use it how to employ it Yeah, many people find it hard to understand Lesbian women in like if there is no penis, it's like there is no sex No sexuality, which is not true because when a woman try Tries being with another woman. There is no coming back Someone had to say So If there is no sexuality less std's It's that latex thing, but it's really expensive I mean or even for Instration for the men's is we are having these many issues or when talking about the price of not just Interceptives but on tampons for instance, we're also facing this issue in that we don't have The true justice on taxes Now but Should we talk about these or about lesbians with my maybe we are digressing a bit too much. Well, I Have a trend in me So do you think that We now Are occupying a more prominent position in like there are some lesbian groups, which ones have Stood the test of time which ones have remained I was a member of an organization the Observatory against homophobia. I'm no longer a member But I was looking for a place where I could socialize and to stand for rights, but there were no women there And so I think that we still find it hard to Find a spot within the collective and in many areas that we find it hard We find it hard to empower ourselves to really own it We are vice presidents rather than presidents and we find it hard to find these And to be a true part and now I'm at borders in theory and these associations and I'm more into it because I but at first I was looking for an LBT organization and it was really difficult for me And I thank to lesbicat got no answer from them and eventually I end up at the observatory against Homophobia, but we seem to be lacking networking socializing spaces Well, maybe these are spaces that we should be creating rather than trying and find them where when they already have a really laid out sexist structure in that They are Colleagues and these organizations, but the truth is that the like the pride for instance when all organizations are there the lgbt Well, you find catty as the president of the lgbt families, but then since 80 percent 80 percent are Members of the survey it has to be a woman and then vice president has to be a man and then And a valenzuela from chrysalis so I think that we have told them this year is to have women lesbian women in the In these associations And they should be the ones The come up to the stage maybe this year or in future years because It it's a clear picture. It's Men all around and just was single woman and then myself on these spaces for lesbian women now since Since we have maria giral here We have not mentioned daniels Because when you Look back in history, you also need to go through these short stories that Have so are more powerful than one might think. Yes, daniel daniels was a pup in san jorbasis district It was a lesbian pup And I was great Amparo she was a patron there and I was for 10 months working Every day it was open Seven days a week and it was great. It was an outstanding place We should still was there because it's really it was really difficult to believe you would find your housewives the early hours in the morning or the students With their uniforms and then late at night you would get the actresses I cannot give you names here because some of them are still alive, but The people from el molino music hall they you would find more that it was like your usual british pup Wake up in her and then you would have daniela organizing a And basketball matches and then I was um On the music and there was a red light as the Warning sign so that you would see that in the dance floor So that people would stop dancing in in the event of a police raid. That was quite an experience when talking about spaces and places that we Should be one must think that there have been some precedents so You would have Rosa as well patmos members. Yep Anyway, that's an old women's story, but anyway These are places that have existed and so you know later someone will have to write about them But that was what the underground movement had these it has the Attractiveness this sexy aspect of what's being forbidden and it was like A great family people from all over catalonia and even from abroad coming It was always crowded There's a smokey pup And many stories Attacked in there And it was like a family wasn't it emperor? No, no, no, no, since we are in a place of history Well, it's good to look at these milestones to these feeds and I think it's worth remembering because the thing is Activism and then A different thing would be all these spaces for sharing for leisure and for entertaining for well-being and I think that it's an important thing very mean Yeah, we need to Reinvent ourselves again and again Some years ago in 2013 for four years along with some of my friends and partners We organized some lesbian cruisers in the Mediterranean And people from Peru would come Some couples from Peru would come For these cruisers and just to be there. I was amazing then so New ways of organizing ourselves, maybe What's already here is no longer useful and then we have to do that On our own it we shouldn't be sitting back and waiting for someone else to do that for us Yes, and I agree with what you're saying that it's up to us No one else will do it for us and to conclude before we open the floor for questions Maybe you can tell us if there is some Self-criticism that can be thrown on the job done by lesbian women since 1977 Well, I learned here at the university that And then when we were in clandestinity that if you If you request that Aquatill in In a trial then you could be executed So you had to accept your Acquisitions your charges because otherwise they would put on you so much more, you know, it's like the self-criticism It's better to request absolution and And we've done things right things wrong, but we've tried That's for sure and that's really important having tried And of course today I see here people from the institutions We need to bear in mind that there's a number of Laws, we know the limits of laws. We feminists know the limits of laws That's what we've been discussing about glass ceilings and so on But of course, thank god, we've got the laws They could be better Yes, definitely because some of them were rushed at the end of a mandate because We didn't know if we would be able to do it in the next power cycle, but We've done that we've done that at least they're done and To the extent we are women that are aware and responsible we assume responsibilities Well, of course full-on self-criticism we need self-criticism We need to criticize ourselves and the movement as a whole Ways we relate to each other the way We organize ourselves. We need to work together. It doesn't mean that doesn't mean we need to You know, um sleep together, but we need to go in the same direction Self-criticism for lesbians as well means Not wanting to be in the spotlight also maybe Because we women we don't like to you know speak in public, but I have to do it because I have a moral obligation doing it and So these this relaxation this let someone else speak let them speak the men Well this visibility we were talking about this lack of visibility is sometimes on us and no one else but us so we need to Empower ourselves Because we are powerful. We are lesbians. We know what the world where the word lesbian means. We are amazon I'm sorry, but we are continuously fighting. We've fought since we were a little not so little some of us but normally since we were little and we've gone Against everything in society This is why we are self-made. We are free people because we never had to depend financially on a husband of course, I'm generalizing here, but This power we need to be able to convey to occupy the space public space Mainly because we have private spaces, but we also want public spaces and we need to take them up But in terms of self criticism, I would say we must not forget we need Always remember things how hard it was to get to this point and we can lose it all overnight with the far right the way it is And sometimes it's difficult to be aware of that and also sorority It's what he said Maria. We need to understand what sorority means and sometimes if we don't think We don't do things together than others will Go ahead of us And of course, I like to say that history has made us invisible and we have to write history So that we are seen in history and that would be also the criticism from a generational point of view And also to reinforce what I just said, there's no difference between the lg tbi movement and the queer movement. They're all one in the same We complement each other and Queer theory reinforces Everything around lg tbi so there's no gap between one thing and the other as sometimes wants to be Some people want to Want to understand from the academia, so we shouldn't divide there's this trend This tendency to divide to split up also with political interest behind sometimes, but no We are together on these issues and others We are together and we stand together. We need to work together Okay, so We will now move on to the q&a session if anyone wants to raise a question Well, thank you all of you for your words And uh, well now uh about the celebration of the pride Barcelona, I recently found out and i'm just uh Speaking from memory, but I found out I discovered The boston marriages. I didn't know about westley marriages. This was an institution which was Completely accepted in the north of united states by which two women could live in a marriage for financial purposes and This was accepted for two women to live in this sexual effective relationship I also read the works of uh, you know, this on the topic He had two hypothesis one that there was more tolerance towards these things at that point And that disappeared in the beginning of the 20th century The second one is that no one would think that Two women who lived together could have a different purpose than a financial one because women did not have any sexual desire so I would like to know what's the role in your memory in your genealogy of this institution of the boston marriages and also Sometimes we should go back to 1889 with when james adams and the 18 start open these Community of women where women were living in marriages in boston and this was accepted also in chicago and the whole area So I know this is a specific question But I don't know I would like to know if you have this part of the genealogy Also integrated as a way of living in freedom Well, we should go back to saffas She was the most prominent poet female poet ever But because she was a lesbian she's been left aside, but she was as important as Homer but yes, there's been the boston marriages and there's always been ways of Sneaking through the cracks and there's been many Cattle and female writers who were lesbians and they've been living with their Um, assistants or whatever this has exists existed forever. There's no origin and the I mean It's not the 18th century or the 19th century. It has existed always the history of our list in victorian england she Also was able to live with her With her partner and if we were to go and find the origins we would have to date To go to go really back in time Yes, obviously from a historic perspective When you look for a genealogy we see we're not the first we not the only ones and You go back to the beginning of time if you go back in time and that's what Also provides us with this empowerment this whole genealogy we have On our backs and if they made it will we will make it as well And there are cases which are really moving also in Literary way because what we keep What has prevailed this literature And we've not discussed this but you know the role of lesbians in literature to break down stereotypes That that would be a whole other topic. But yes, I like your point. Yes. Hello. I would basically want to confirm what Maria said At this point and also related to what you said about the movement there's been a part of the movement That did not feel Related to the legal acknowledgments there has been so So We were socially excluded in the movement. You could be wealthy or poor Woman a lesbian a gay man, whatever but when You could be acknowledged in a marriage and also your properties and your condition would not Influence would not impact in your life Then you had the option of going against the system now you had to I mean in the past He had to go against the system wanted or not But I believe that a part of the movement is now Missing that or they had not they have not assumed it They've not accepted it. So These kind of contradictions which are very dynamic in the collective We really need to be alert and we need to be united and different and that's really hard to do And also we need to avoid Fifth columns and this is nothing new but for 10 years at a european level I remember the pin for twin there's a phenomenon that was in the netherlands in which lesbian and gay organizations were confronted with the islamic movement to You know looking for a division for a divide. So You know stonework would have never existed without the feminist movement So this links these relations are our power our strength and we need to prevent this fifth column this division that Instilled inside of the movement And that's difficult for to understand for many people. But we really is life or death Issue for us And you know union indifference is what makes us strong And I Give you a reference. Yeah, jordy patin Good evening. I would just like to Thank you for everything you you've taught us. Yeah, you know lesbians from greater land man Also, I'm part of the nether and also the practice we had with the gay lesbian coordinator with the lesbians movement who told us we want to hold parties but On our own just our just ask lesbians and why because If in school Anyone starts to bully us we will feel uncomfortable and also men like it or not You take the initiative you decide you turn on the light you turn on the light you play that music or the other so mixed work with gay men in activism Has taught us many things we might have not learned Outside of the activism world I was actually surprised from what happened since canton avian countries in the norway danmark sweden And they have mixed associations Since the 60s and once a year women have this assembly on their own Assembly aside, they decide a number of things and they and then they go on with mixed work I know from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean that's quite a stretch, but I believe that mixed work has allowed us to learn great many things to men as gay men and as men because we've received sexist education, of course or probably in the Scandinavian countries they come from a different culture and probably here You know male sexism was more powerful. That's maybe the explanation, but we should analyze it thank you Drudy because you are a very prominent person in this World in this field and thank you also for being with us here today. Well, I think lesbians have always been kind of a hinge between the LGTBI movement and the feminist movement and as a hinge sometimes we've lost track of being lesbians I don't know what you think about this but Maria when you were talking about menstrual cups We have this, you know, we have this tendency to discuss anything but ourselves And we have this tendency to fight within the LGTBI Q plus movement and the feminist movement and on this dual Facet in which we feel comfortable and we work very well We're really hard for us to talk about ourselves, you know to focus the topic on ourselves and to really Talk from ourselves. So I believe this is probably The tax that the main task lesbians should focus on without losing sight or without stopping The activism in the feminist movement or the LGTBI Q movement, but we need some inner work From the outside to the inside and the other we want as lesbians I would like to know whether you've got any strategy when you are in some place And you see that you start to digress because we have this ability Any strategy to refocus We are working on that strategy indeed well I love that you said this I Thought this idea would not come up, but I've always had this feeling that as lesbians We are always working for others And it's like when it's when it's going to be our turn and this is why we wanted to do this work But again that's work in progress. Yes, we like mothers, right? We're always Taking care of someone Okay, so we'll Take a round of questions now and then you can answer them all together to close up Well, first of all, I would like to congratulate you on this conference and this Session because I believe what you do is really useful today And I would like to highlight a couple of things first of all the lack of references Reference people in this country not just at the level of the media, but also its person Who is a part of the Who is a part of the Movement could be a role model for the friends for the peers When publishing a paper or a Story on the newspaper or whatever we need to break that barrier also the second thing would be the difficulty to find spaces to find Places for the ldba Collective So as I said the lack of spaces to Find people, you know, there's many meeting spaces for heterosexuals But not so much for ldba members of the ldba community at least from my experience And then there was one last point which I forgot. Yes visibility visibility On the in the media. There is a lot of talk on aggressions suffered by Gays or lesbians on the beach on the street But I believe that not enough work is done in this regard And of course I can answer this but it would be biased. I would like to ask you what can anyone do like me or any of us to Better disseminate and raise awareness on the ldba community Thank you Because I'm sorry to Speak again. I just I would just like to highlight something Which is The most transgressive part Of the ldba community to lesbians and this would be lesbian motherhood, you know motherhood between two women. I believe that really Up ends the whole patriarchal Sexist system and I believe that's a huge contribution to Make visible diversity. Lesbian motherhood Lesbian maternity is a great contribution Which came When you could make it possible and I believe this is the other god of the movement single parent Families and particularly lesbian mothers Yes linking it to the um, you know places for socialization and parting and pleasure Have you found in sages this? Freedom space or you could have to you had to look elsewhere because it just was You stop by gay men Well, you know started asking about spaces Like party places. I mean, we're not like a guide here Book a guide book. I don't really know what the best party places are lesbians. Anyway as We as lesbians and this is the motive For the panel. We've found places Altogether amongst friends. It's difficult, but we are ordinary people and like Anyone you always look for the spaces That are more akin to you also Someone was talking about spaces and small towns and so on. Well, I know about these women For instance, they bought this house in the management region and They went to live by the sea as in their old age Some others do different things like they live in a commune They they used to do that when they were younger and now maybe they do it again because if they had to go to Nursing home. Well, that's not a place where they feel comfortable. It makes sense because maybe they're not so old. Well, just Linking this last question to the comment by giordi, but the lesbians want to have children Want to be mothers and share it or not with the lesbian partners They find they do not fit In the heterosexual world or in the in the lesbian environment they were enjoying Before having kids if their friends do not have kids So they come to our organizations such as ours to find spaces where they can be relaxed amongst lesbians with children So we basically look for this support networks. That's what we've that's what we've always done So if you're younger you go to the members or if you are older and you can have children You try and find other spaces you go to sparks with your lesbian mother friends And Another topic Travelling we lesbians love traveling You know, you can go it's like when you travel across the world and you find another catalan Well, you travel across the world and you find other lesbians too Why because we love traveling and we love you know Knowing about other cultures. I mean you didn't find this like you go to You know across the world and you find the catalan there. Well, same thing. We are everywhere And you know lesbians like to travel. It's like We like to be like telma and louis, but without the ending different ending. We don't really know the ending of the movie, right? But anyway We like to travel and travel differently and we can invent different things. We need to be creative when it's You know like Change houses in australia or portugal or the state exchanging houses, whatever. Why not? Okay, then our further questions. We would just Close this panel. Thank you so much for being here. Hopefully we will be able to You know, meet up again in the future. Hopefully every year. Thank you so much