 Thank you. We're back on a different bill on H96, which is our bill that was a proposal for a task force to consider a truth and reconciliation commission. And we've had some fairly general conversation about this and a lot of conversation in social equity caucus about this bill and with others, Representative Bloomley and Kalaki have been meeting with a bunch of different individuals, stakeholders, if you will, and we haven't really started a larger conversation on H96 yet. And people are starting with curious about it, about what does it mean. The state's never really embarked on a process like this before. And so there's an issue of sensitivity, first of all, about why are we doing this and what would we be doing, what would be the outcome of this and what would be the goal. And more practically, the question becomes for us as we start to consider it, actually, not so much how do we go about it, we're going to go about it in a legislative way, but also trying to take into account the voices of the people that have been affected that this Truth and Reconciliation Commission has presented as we've been talking about it for some of us over the course of the last 12 or 14 months, but for others it's been longer, for others it's been much shorter. And I wanted to reach out to you, Amanda, and we shared the language anyway of H96, which was a short form, which only had the proposal in it, and then the language that we had started last year. And one of the questions I guess I would just start off with is, or I'll share a conversation I had with Debbie Ann Page from the Council of State Governments who does sit in on the social equity caucus meetings and was integral in helping us create that social equity caucus, was is it right to even include the words Truth and Reconciliation in a task force to decide to determine what might come next? I mean it's easy for, it's not easy because we've never done it before, but it's in the formula of saying well how do we approach social equity in the work that we do, wouldn't a Truth and Reconciliation Commission of some sort be part of the process. And I guess the question that Debbie put to me was well should the task force be about well what actually comes next? What if one group of people actually only wants certain legislation? What if one group of people doesn't want or need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission? What if another group of people do? How do we accommodate? And so I wanted to start our broader outreach and certainly a committee anyone can chime in, but John and and Representative Collack you're bloomly you know certainly with the conversations you have feel free to chime in as well but I'll just start Amanda first of all to welcome you back. And we view your experiences and the Human Rights Commission's role in working with, I don't even know if it's situations like this but very difficult situations and I just wanted to start by asking you like what is what in your opinion might be a path forward for us? I mean we're going to start a process with a eugenics apology and one of the notions that I've been working with in my head based on the research that I've done over the years is that once you when you apologize it can either be just words and really empty or it can do something or it can be the beginning the springboard of something else. And none of those other things are promised per se because it's a legislative process but we're not going to just apologize and leave it on the table. And I just it's kind of a broad question to you but what do you see or as a path forward for us as we contemplate what I view as some pretty important ideas this session? Thank you and thank you so much for having me today again and I appreciate having today representing the voice of the Vermont Human Rights Commission and I think I mean I think centering the voices of the people is always very important and I know that your committee is always trying to reach out to people from the communities that this will impact. I am I'm really happy that the eugenics apology is going to move forward. Is it going to move forward? We expected to yes. So and I think that you're right that that is a first step. I was just listening to Chief Stevens when he came to testify here before and I think it's it's important it's an important step but not the end right it's just like you said I think these all of these processes need to have a transformation piece in that I talked a little bit about transformative justice and what how that looks like last time that I came here and and so I think it's the process and I think you know going also by just thinking about intersectionality approach of it and how intersectionality as a theory like you you still have this separate culture background that binds us together right like that is very specifically we're talking about reparations in the black community we're talking about the harms that were done by to the indigenous community and the harms that were done to the disability to people with disability in our state right and in our country so I think I think was our separate distinct things that have happened that we have historical markings for it that to this point we're still kind of you know talking about it so it's kind of like time to to start that action so and and with that said is in the legislative process to thinking about well who is on that table and that's I think the most important thing is like who is going to be at you know on that table and looking at the H96 of last year and you know looking at the stakeholders that were put in it's great but and again that's the question of how do you create a system that really respects that the different oppressions that have happened and how everybody's going to have a different response to what they want whether it's reparations whether it's land whether you know it's so I think that in a way what I am offering today is something you already said that you know there is some important separations that need to happen so that people can bring on their own cultural awakening that their cultural empowerment about how they want these reparations to be and and be able to submit that and I think so with this bill and you like how I believe that it should still be the huge component of us the truth and reconciliation because we do need to we need to bring the truth and then and then ask ourselves oh how do how would we repair this harm together right for our state so I mean I think you already heard from so many other people as well that there needs to be that people need to speak for themselves that's the big part and in choosing that who's going to be there is just leaving for the people that are doing the work on the ground and I mean the reparations task force in Burlington the HRC had a space we we you know found someone that could represent the HRC in that in that moment so in that space as well but that answer your general question I answer with general answers no that's that's right and and so um and so we're one of the intellectual pieces of this for me is that we are the legislature so we give us we create the space and we have a certain kind of timeframe right because whether it's crossover whether it's the end of session whether it's crossover next year which it can be uncomfortable when we're talking about trying to create a space for people that you know that where their voices can be heard in a meaningful way and that might lead to that might lead to the next steps and so when when we're asked we've been asked to take our time because not only is it like giving people voice part of giving them that voice is saying we're ready to talk or we're not ready to talk and so um given that on one hand I feel pressure to get something done because it's the right thing to do balanced with but we're not ready to talk perhaps um what is there I mean it's not there's not a textbook answer I know but I'm just you know I'm just looking for that for that balance of of um respectfully having that conversation and working within a system that is problematic at its core or by its definition yeah I mean I it's um I think that yes there's always a step that we need to take and be bold and I think when we're talking about the systems and the harms that were done we need to start moving a little bit bolder around like if we're really committed to do let's just do it and I think the so part of it like the process is the most important thing and this is the beginning of the process you don't need a product right now the product will come when the when the people are ready but you need to set the the process that is if like so that this is the way I'm thinking like you set up the process you pass this bill people come in to start to brainstorm and that's and that is what we need right now if we wait one more year for some people to speak and others are ready some others are not but you know there is a movement that speaks to the now to the let's move things forward now and the process will speak for itself I think you know part of a white supremacy culture tenant is product over process right but process is what really what what it's going to bring the birth about what needs to happen for us to really get to where it needs to be and so I think that if because we are a few days before crossover that we've been having these conversations now for three years some of us you know for more some of you for much more than that that let's just move the process forward and there will be and I think that you're not setting up the truth and reconciliation product now that is going to come out of the people that are doing the work that are impacted that can speak about what they need and what and I mean we we have seen committees that work with subcommittees so it doesn't necessarily mean that you're you know putting everybody together you could be like the process again and we have really great people in our state that I am sure have all the capabilities love for this work that can create a process that is sustainable that grounds the voice of the people that you know we're doing this for and that can really make a difference so that's my my opinion okay question from representative blumley thank you um chair and thanks so much for visiting the committee um I I guess I guess I want to ask a baseline question which is um is an apology meaningless if not accompanied uh by a or is it diluted an apology that commits itself to legislative action um uh is it without companion legislation to take that first next step is its meaning uh diluted to you I I've heard different things in different discussions um and I think that my um I I completely agree with you about process being critical um our committee has um I think heard or at least members of our committee and meaning um our chair and John Kolecki and I've heard different things from different people with whom we've spoken to better understand what might be desired um and um and so uh and there was also some discussion of white supremacy culture is an urgent one and there's always a desire you know desire to fix something um um and are we maybe moving too quickly so I that was several kind of questions there thank you I I um you know it's specifically without eugenics apologies I just I I feel like the people that were impacted are the ones that should be speaking whether or not you know an apology is enough as as as me I would say that that a apology is not enough if there is no transformation for it and and how that looks like so like um but again like it should be our Abenaki community like being able to answer that questions and our our um and I know that we heard from from people like Max that came to speak a little bit around that and I think that yeah I think that there should always be attached to a next step it doesn't again have to be like now we're gonna do all that but it's like the impact right like when we we are learning all this work around um apologies and around intention versus impact and right now we're talking about the impact and how that happened and so like how to resolve the issue so so I went all over but the answer to your questions is I think that there should be something attached to it but I also want to give um this should be something that is not that is the Abenaki community speaking and okay thank you okay representative Kalaki in Parsons thank you and good morning Amanda thank you for joining us thank you you know we are grappling with what is the next step forward and what does it mean and um you know what we're looking at as a task force not to necessarily define a truth and reconciliation committee but determine what it would be um I'm really wondering and maybe it's more of a a session that I wonder if this is more of a hybrid model with the legislature your your office and susanna davis's office and because this is a lot this is very important for the state to do and it's really important that it's correct and I think uh you know just trying to to figure out this process and what the financial support is for this process you know uh Lumley and I've heard from people saying well we're all volunteers this is really hard to set up meetings with us over the summer to get a report together about this because no one's you know this we all have other jobs and so I'm just thinking it um I think I'd like to sit with you and bore yeah and and uh Lumley and and then bring this back to it is there a different model you know we we have a a summer study committee you know is a model the legislature sets up or a process and you know we we have a lot of deep listening to do with a lot of different stakeholders to determine what what their issues are in this and what the harm is from their perspectives not from our perspectives and so my I just can't get my arms around what a process would look like and so I don't know if you'd be willing to sit and brainstorm is there some connection with your office with Suzana Davis's office and with the legislature I know it's it's it's we and the apology we apologize for what the state did so it is ultimately our responsibility I'm not trying to give up our responsibility but I'm just feeling like this is pretty important and and due process is really and we you know we have to start it we don't have to finish it in in one little summer committee so I think that's where I'm struggling how to start yeah and I'll be I'll be more yes I am here to support our HRC is here the Vermont human response is here to support all the way and yeah we can set up a a a meeting with Susana and part of like the the initial h96 from last year I mean all of the systemic racism pieces is work that she's going she's working on all all of the the work that her office is doing around systemic racism and finding and that the HRC is doing in some of it so I think that a connection to it is really important and I'll be more than happy to talk but yeah we're here to support okay thank you representative Parsons thank you I just had a question it's more of just a understanding type question the term white supremacy culture has been used a few times around this regarding different aspects then your example was product over process is a white supremacy culture thing does process over product belong to any supremacy culture or is it just it just seems that it's I'm not sure it just seems like a personal trait kind of thing as opposed to being given any one culture thank you representative for that so the white supremacy culture is it's it's a document that many many of us have been drawing from that was created by these two amazing educators that kind of like the tenant of white supremacy it's in his hell is why folks believe in that they are above anybody else and so there is a kind of line of study that that has been happening around our state in many spaces around specifically around white supremacy culture of how like people of color have not given the words to speak for themselves and and these also and just that the procedures that have been created to not allowed for people of color and people from other marginalized communities to come and speak being agents of change and and what the processes are and so there's a shift to shift in some of those things around perfectionism around like how everything has to be perfect and and process there's an idea I will be more than happy to share the document with you that talks a little bit about just the standards and and and the shift for that that is less of a rigid system where we can actually be humans together instead of like this kind of a standards that have been said that in in many many times what that has done is um continue to oppress people that who were whose voice were taken away and I'll be happy to share that document with you yeah I guess I was just trying to square the circle of if product over process is white supremacy culture does process over product automatically becomes something that we tied to another culture I don't so a culture we're trying to create together where all the voices are listened to maybe okay I guess I'll leave it at that thank you thank you okay representative blumly yes um I've been following different pieces of legislation that um related to social equity that are in different committees um in both the house and the senate and and I've just been this is a kind of a broader question but it it it might affect our work here on this which is you know is is there it feels a little to me like a patchwork quilt um approach or a somewhat piecemeal approach to address um similar issues um in different ways through different means and that may be what has to happen um you know whether it's the data collection or it is related to health care equity or it is related to reparations or and um I I just wonder about discussions you you know and your colleagues have had or um or you've had with susana davis about is there any reason to try to align or integrate these um you know these efforts um and are there opportunities that would um um I apologize for not being clearer uh do you do are you understanding where I'm going here I think I'm just conscious of the fact we're doing this here these other people are doing things in other places and are there opportunities um over over time for some alignment and strengthen um our efforts yeah and I mean I I I think so and I think part of the bridge of the susana davis office is gonna work on that right like she just started one two years ago so it's like just like thinking her job is to end systemic racism in that state which is huge right and so I and I think that they already gave us recommendations of things that that can't work that ultimately will help us see the big pictures and and align so I will defer to her because I think it is a great question um she created a task a symposium of all the task force that the state has and so uh those task force have met I think I believe like three times um and just looking at all the things that people are doing with that idea not to redo things that have already been done you know reports that have been commissioned uh to these task force that are looking at racial equity education police reform all of this and looking at how they'll align um towards that same goal right of looking at the disparities in our state so I think I think susana will be I know she's that's fine tomorrow um those are really great things for her that she might already be working on that thanks thank you um amanda the we had an implicit training bias earlier as a caucus of the whole um we have uh upwards of a dozen bills in our committee right now that in some way shape and form address issues that fit into the category of social equity um or social justice and we haven't really delved into a lot of them past this age 96 and the apology um and I suppose we can include minimum wage and there's a lot there and I'm curious to know if there is a way for us to take time not this week not next week but sometime in the near future to kind of have another training with you um and with others just to again to try to um identify way best best practices on how to to start work on some of these bills I mean obviously we're not going to get to all of them but we they have all come out of conversations um obviously they're important to somebody enough to try to get them sponsored is that something that we can request um I mean we would we would probably need to figure out what that means for our committee like what is it that we want to what is it that we would want to talk about with you or in as a training but is that something that you would be able to work with us on? Yeah I would love to I would love that um and also I don't know have you guys seen the tool that Susana in her office created around like policy and equity um I we may have seen it individually in places but I can't recall seeing it myself I will ask her to send it but um I think that that's a really important tool because he asked all this question around equity and around all the policies and bills that are being worked on um and they use it in in their office so but I would love to yeah work with your committee and um set something up. Great because I mean one of the things again remaining sensitive to language um we would we need to be working from the same glossary I think and and I hear this in all of our work but again in relation to this bill um mostly offline it language is important and understanding what these things mean are important and I think it would be important for us to address these in a much more specific way than just the training that we received um as a caucus of the whole um but the committee will and I will have you know we'll have that conversation in the near future but I just I just as I as I was feeling lucky to get you here for today I was you know thinking that in the future again as we take up bills like this even even 96 um how do we how do we make sure our language is correct. I'll also just be happy to give a 15-minute overview of what the HRC does um representatives that are new uh just because we we do have um a huge you know plate um a full of things that of all of our protected categories and so when I'm speaking um who I'm speaking for not for but you know the the work that we have is for all the protected categories which includes race, ethnicity, gender and so that will be also helpful um of where we come from when we're speaking of the HRC. That would be great again we this this this zoom world has prevented us in some ways of just having our HRC 101 or um in in our 101s in a lot of different categories here in the first half of the first year of the session so um but we will we will be sure to um be in touch soon and and I I appreciate you taking the time just to sort of tee this up or get share and share your thoughts. Well thank you. Now yeah and and you know feel free if you notice here and there that we're going down the wrong alley or the right you know just if you if you know if you notice things that we don't please feel free to share them um at least with with any of us that you come across um I'd say in the hallway but we're not there yet so soon soon yeah all right thank you so much for your time today yeah thank you thank you so much all right be good thank you you too all right committee that was some kind of morning um um in general housing and military affairs fashion um representative murphy thank you chair Stevens I'm going to wrap us back to when we very early began voting on h149 and as I look at the instructions for what I'm to do with it there's one requesting that um speaking to amendments to it and we didn't deal with the amendment and so I don't know how to cope with that because it says if the if the bill is being voted out favor favorably no amendments proposed by the committee but we are proposing an amendment and we didn't vote on it it was the motion was favorable with amendment so that's all we say yes yeah so the work that by adding language on top of what was in the bill is introduced that's that's that's the amendment we made so we we made that amendment in the in in the process of discussion on the bill okay I think what I think what's going to appear in the in the book is probably just the amendment or a link to the amendment you know to some of the language or it could be to the whole bill but regardless it's not we didn't do a strike all usually what happens is you know if there's a lot of changes we do a strike all and you can but I think it's still the same process you're right we didn't have a separate amendment for the employment rights yeah and so that's so maybe so maybe reach out to Damian and ask him how it's how he thinks or maybe the clerk um you and Ron can reach out to the clerk and see how it's going to appear in the calendar and I'm sorry I stand corrected I'm looking at the summary and it does include the section 72 and 73 so you're right it would be as amended we we tucked it in yeah right it was inserted language yeah yeah okay I did ask Damian and he said just send the amendment to the court to the house yeah okay yeah so the people so people can refer to people can refer to the bill is introduced because we didn't change anything in it and then there's that amendment that we did add okay all right there is right yeah exactly um all right everybody so we are on the floor at 1 p.m and um uh 115 115 and just keep an eye as we discussed yesterday just keep an eye on your texts from Ron just I mean obviously if we are past a certain time you know we'll find out from the witness how long he's available but um what his flexibility is and after a certain point and if we are able to meet with him I suspect it could be you know a half an hour to 45 minutes it would be probably um the most we would get I mean we usually when we've met with this group before with with Colonel Cooney before we've rarely gone over an hour with him but um just keep it just keep an eye out and Ron and I will work on tomorrow tomorrow we clearly need to meet at nine o'clock on um we so homework will be definitely take a look at the rest of one the last couple of pages of 157 um be prepared to make some quick conversation and decisions if we can on 313 when that information comes across of course if we can't find comfort a comfort level on voting for something we'll we'll pass until the next time um and and um that'll be that'll be the the thrust of tomorrow along with conversation with Suzanne on Davis could could we try to um get the representative the retailers in just to have an understanding of that or yeah we've Ron is going to work on contacting Aaron Segrist to see if she has an opinion I have sent an email and so um we'll see how she responds thank you Ron and I do think I mean I do think the question Barbara that you raised earlier whether you know is this a consumer bill or is this a manufacturer you know a business bill and I think you know including second class people could be considered a consumer bill because supermarkets supermarkets certainly haven't struggled during COVID um from a business perspective um and that's a different that's a different thing rather than saying specific to the businesses that are the the manufacturers or um I mean small businesses you know I know that the the the small local store in Huntington has struggled this year but that's um they also don't do curbside so um anyway we'll see what we get from Aaron Segrist and um go from there