 Welcome to another great Friday afternoon here in Honolulu, Hawaii. I'm Stan Osserman, I'm the energy man here on Think Tech Hawaii. And we're going to talk all things energy. And today we're focused on something that's come up in conversations that I've had with several industry partners that we have out here. And that is when is more of this equipment that we're talking about with hydrogen and especially with hydrogen systems going to be more available like commercial off the shelf. And so today on our show we have a company called Gencel and Alex Ossido is our guest. And he's going to be talking to us about something that is commercially available and we could bring into the state, we could bring into actually any community and start using for backup power, for primary power and as part of systems of power. And so Alex, thanks for joining us today. And I appreciate you calling in all the way from Atlanta. And why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself first and then a little bit about Gencel. Sure. Thank you very much for the opportunity, Stan. So again, my name is Alex Ossado, I'm the director of sales for the company called Gencel Energy who happens to be an Israeli company, but I happen to manage all the Americas. And one thing that you should know about Gencel is that we really kind of look at the hydrogen technology and the way that we kind of build building blocks to provide a ultimate result. Now, one thing about the height of Gencel Energy is that the engineers that are actually working for Gencel are the same engineers that were working for the Russian space program to generate power out in space. So technically our fuel cell really is rocket science. Now, one of the way we built the solution is really designed to provide you two primary components. One of them is to have an extremely reliable piece of equipment that basically uses no mechanical components to generate power. And the second, which is to me is one of the most important items of the solution is related to the bidirectional communication aspect of the solution. When you think about risk, the risk really comes from the unknown. When you have applications where you're designed to power mission critical equipment and you don't know what's happening with the power source, that in itself creates a lot of risk and liability. So one of the things that we've designed is a solution that the system may is smart enough to know what it is. How it's supposed to be functioning. And if there's any deviation in performance, the system will automatically send you alerts in a variety of different ways. It can be from emails, text messages, if anyone is still using beepers, you'll get a beeper message. But the whole premise is that we want to make sure that we provide you with the operational intelligence that's necessary for you to make informed decisions about what to do and when to do it. That's great. And you know, that speaks right to what we wanted to focus in on the show. You know, people nowadays are, the consumer is pretty demanding in terms of the products that they get. They need to be reliable. They need to be efficient. They need to be affordable and they need to function consistently and, you know, for a fairly long period of time without being replaced. And then there has to be a good way to replace them and follow on without making a huge new investment or, you know, making a big change over in technology. It seems like GenCell's kind of got that upfront in their design package and how they put some things together now. You have a couple of pieces of equipment that are basically power supplies. And if I recall right, one of them is hydrogen based purely and the other one is ammonia based. Is that correct? That is correct, Stan. So we've designed basically two primary solutions. One of them is designed primarily for backup power, which is called our G5. And, you know, that in and of itself, it has a lot of value because in today, when you're thinking about the electrification that's happening, not only nationally, but you think about internationally where, you know, companies like Tesla or Nikola or any of the other companies that are really making a big effort in trying to eliminate the fossil fuel power generation process. I mean, you even look at the Mariah from Toyota, you know. Even vehicles, you're looking at big companies like Bloom Energy that are putting very large, you know, hydrogen fuel cell technology for large stationary power where you're actually generating megawatts worth of power. The electrification process in the world now is really becoming to be mainstream. And this is where I think we have a piece in that market where we're very specific in what we can apply. But the reason why we created our solution is because we know that there was a gap in the process when you're dealing with things like diesel generators or UPSS. They have limitations in terms of what they can actually provide over what period of time. So if you think of traditional UPS, the UPS will give you, typically depending even on the size, usually between, let's just say, 35 minutes to about a little over an hour, regardless of the size, because usually they're sized based on the load. But typically, they will give you the same kind of range in terms of energy outputs. The problem with the batteries is that, you know, they're also very finicky. Even though a lot of people or at least most of the industry look at batteries as a failsafe, it really isn't because between all the various variables that go into making sure that those batteries give you the outputs necessary and give you that confidence that you're going to have the ability of time really kind of goes to a lot of things like age or significantly impacts battery output, the maintenance associated with it, temperatures, and a couple other variables. So you may design a system, you know, when you first bought the system for eight hours, but over time, if you're not maintaining that system and you're not correctly managing that process, you really may only get five or six hours. And the problem is even though the indicator may show that it has 100% charge, typically you're only measuring the certain charge. So unless you take the specific gravity of each individual cell, in many cases you won't really know how much energy you have to work with and how much time you have to work with. So that's a limitation. If we focus on the diesel generator component, you're basically talking about a mechanism. You're starting to cut out a little bit, Alex. I'm not sure if it's connected. Let me interrupt for one second or two. Sure. You know, one thing that you mentioned that I think very few people really think about because they don't do much work with batteries, but you mentioned that a battery is a collection of cells and it's almost like a chain where the weakest cell is as strong as you're going to get. And a lot of the folks don't realize that when you have the current battery technology that we have, you may have hundreds of cells in your battery. It only takes one or two to start deteriorating abnormally because of a defect or something, and it drags down the whole performance of the whole battery. That's one thing. And the other thing is the batteries that would last you for days or weeks, and you talked about a half hour to an hour as a backup system, if you were going to go for over a day or into a week or a month, you couldn't afford all the batteries it would take to give you enough storage to maintain energy for that length of time. And I think that also lends well to what your technology brings to the market. Okay. That's absolutely correct, Stan. And it's not even just the expense associated to the number of batteries that you just described, but it's also the space. The space is another limiting factor in terms of battery technology. So I mean, I'm not admounting batteries whatsoever. I'm just saying that there's limitations to what those batteries can offer. Exactly. If you switch over directly to the power generation when you're using mechanical components, that also has a certain amount of limitations, because that's why most companies that are depending on power generation through diesel, gasoline, or propane, whatever the fuel happens to be, it's all mechanical. And the process is that they have to turn these systems on at least once a week or twice a month or whatever their protocol demands. But that's just to verify that the system will work when you're relying on so many mechanical components. So it's not just the generator. You've got the switch gear. You've got the auxiliary pumps for fuel. So any one of those components fail, the whole system shuts down and nothing happens. So that's just where we kind of created a hybrid solution where we incorporate both a, basically what we call the energy, which is kind of like a UPS, and also the power generation components. In this type of configuration, you get all the great benefits of fuel cells that if you, if you would mind going to the slide that I have, that I presented to you guys. This kind of gives you all the great, the next slide please. This will kind of give you some of the great attributes of tool cell technology. So considering that there's really no mechanical components internally to generate power, it's all a chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen. Literally, the maintenance is very low and very long, meaning that you only have to do it once a year. The second thing also is that you're not burning anything. So there's no emissions, there's no combustion, there's no noise. We're operating at about 52 to 55% efficient. If you also include the thermal energy that's part of this chemical reaction, you're up to about 87 to 90% efficient. So literally you have a great power of those things. You know how it's supposed to be functioning, and if there's any deviation in performance, the system will automatically start sending you alerts so that you know what to do and when to do it. And one of the things that you have on that list there is the harmonics and the balancing. You know, as we get more and more into computers and complex communication systems that are really sensitive to the quality of power that you're getting, I haven't found anything that can quite replicate the clean power signal-wise that comes off of a fuel cell compared to a spinning generator or some kind. And I think that's really another point that's lost. And you know what you've been talking about is what we call cradle-to-grave. You know unless you're looking at everything that impacts the life cycle of that equipment, whether it's maintenance or whether it's a critical failure or meantime between failure, cost of materials, source of materials, you really have to do a critical analysis of the equipment and the system. And the more I look at hydrogen and hydrogen-based systems, I just see much, much better picture for hydrogen than anything that's currently out there. So, Sam, so you are absolutely correct. Your point about the total harmonics, the power factor, those are very critical to many systems that are depending on the electronics and making sure that you have a steady stream of power because any type of heat or stack is going to definitely devastate the process to where it can even shut down certain systems. And any type of disruption in power and significantly both operational and financially devastate the operation. So if you would mind going to the next slide. We actually have built a solution specifically designed for utilities, oddly enough. So, going back to what we were discussing earlier about battery technology, you know, when you're dealing about the transmission and distribution of power from the utility, they have distribution or substations every so often. And these substations have very critical equipment internally that has to be able to be remotely turned on and off. And when you're thinking about some of these systems, the only option at the moment would be a battery. So most of these substations will actually use a battery bank to support this application. Well, there was a company in Southern California that had a situation that in 2014, they lost power and this kind of went across state lines. So to restore power, it was very complicated because they were banking on eight hours worth of runtime in terms of time flexibility to restore power. And by the time they came around to doing it, they quickly realized that they really were only getting about five to six hours, maybe seven hours. It did not reach the eight hours. And as I mentioned earlier, one of the reasons is because of maintenance, it could be age, it could be any number of things, but the whole process is that they were not able to restore power. So that created a huge issue to where they contacted us. And now what we're doing is we're actually providing electrical energy to support a substation from a utility to be able to support the restoration of power and give them a little bit more range. If we can design a system to operate for eight hours, we can operate for 16 hours, we can operate for days or even months and years at a time. Just depending on what the customer requires is how we size the system. And when I say we size the system, it's really contingent on how much fuel we have on premise. That really, just like any other power generation, depending on how much fuel you have on hand, ultimately it's going to give you the ability to run for that expected amount of time. The difference is that we can quickly understand exactly how much power we have and our systems are very efficient. So when you compare it to traditional fuels, we actually require less fuel to operate for longer periods of time. That's a great point. And we're going to take a quick break here. And when we come back, I actually want to talk about the connection between hydrogen and ammonia and why your systems, why you have different systems that run off different fuels. We'll be back in 60 seconds. Hi, guys. I'm your host, Lillian Cumick from Lillian's Vegan World. I come to you live every second Friday from 3 p.m. And this is the show where I talk about the plant-based lifestyle and veganism. So we go through recipes, some upcoming events, information about health regarding your health, and just some ideas on how you can have a better lifestyle, eat healthier and have fun at the same time. So do join me. I look forward to seeing you and aloha. Aloha. I'm your host, Sharon Thomas Yarbrough of Sister Power here at ThinkTech of IE. And Sister Power is all about motivating, empowering, educating, and inspiring all people. And we have various subjects here. Sister Power is here at ThinkTech every other Thursday at 4 p.m. Again, my name is Sharon Thomas Yarbrough, host of Sister Power. We look forward to seeing you. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at sistersandpowerandcavaii at gmail.com. Look forward to chatting with you soon. Aloha. Hey, welcome back to Stand Energy Man on my lunch hour, of course. We're talking to Alex Oceto from GenCell. And we left off talking a little bit about the different kind of fuels that his equipment uses, and we're focusing on hydrogen. Number one, because that's my favorite subject. But his equipment also, they have a series of equipment that runs off ammonia. And I wanted to just make a couple points about why there's a connection between ammonia and hydrogen. Well, ammonia is NH3, which is one nitrogen atom and three hydrogen atoms. And ammonia is actually one of the best ways to transport high density of hydrogen at ambient temperature and ambient pressure. And it's easier to do because it's a liquid fuel. So when you talk about liquid hydrogen, you're talking about a super cold, super energy dense liquid, but it's also a lot harder to deal with. Hydrogen, I mean, ammonia is also really important because if you have an agricultural community that needs fertilizer, ammonia is also a big part of doing fertilizer for your agricultural community around you. So when you start looking at how these things synergize together, I think it's really important to recognize that when you make hydrogen out of an electrolyzer, you also get oxygen for welding and medical purposes. And then when you're dealing with ammonia, which is another great energy carrier for hydrogen, you're dealing with fertilizers and things of agriculture community. So Alex, I'll turn it back over to you to talk about your system. Great, thank you, Sam. So yeah, so one of the key things that Gensel really kind of evaluated in terms of our solution and how we would be a little bit different from the common companies out there that are generating power-reusing fuel cells is that today either you're using straight hydrogen or you're using some sort of fossil fuel, whether it's methanol, natural gas, or something of that sort. But those systems typically are not 100% green because you're still creating CO2 and you're still creating some sort of an emission. So exactly what you mentioned, Sam, is that the alternative to that, ammonia is highly rich with the energy density of ammonia, which gives us a great way to extract out the hydrogen and be able to feed our fuel cell to generate clean electrical power. So one of the things that we did is we built a cracker that basically what we're doing is taking in hydrosimonia, which as you mentioned is NH3, we put it through our patent technology cracker, we split the molecule between the hydrogen and the nitrogen, and then that feeds our fuel cell. And the reason why this type of technology is revolutionary in the fuel cell environment is because this really kind of gives us the ability to generate power for long periods of time. So if you think about the fuel cell, all the great attributes that we just spoke about initially, and you're thinking about how we're going to use this technology and how we're going to get the fuel, because obviously you're not going to go to your neighborhood gas station and pick up some ammonia or some hydrogen, which means that you have to bring the energy to you. Now part of that is exactly what you mentioned, Stan, is that from a transportation and logistical perspective, bringing in hydrosimonia is very easy because the supply chain is already there, the safety protocol is already there. It's already used in a lot of different types of applications from you mentioned agriculture, that's one, refrigeration, cosmetics, water purification. So every single country in the world has it, whether they produce it or import it, but they have it. So this makes it an ideal solution for us to be able to generate power, sell our equipment, use all the great benefits around the world from a solution that is very easy to extract and also operate for long periods of time. So let me give you a little bit of a scale. If you think about ammonia, we bring in one tank of ammonia, which is approximately, one time is approximately 400 gallons of fuel. And that 400 gallons will give us the ability to operate for 24 hours a day, seven days a week for 30 days. That's revolutionary, nobody else is doing this. Now you compare that to diesel fuel, at least on the mainland you're talking about approximately $3 a gallon. And if you compare that to a diesel generator that's burning between one gallon and two gallons an hour depending on the size, we got this up the load as well because, you know, even if you have a very low consumption rate, your generator is still going to be operating at the same level as far as consumption because regardless of the load, that engine has to turn, you know, that RPM has to continue turning. But your consumption really doesn't change. So if you think about one gallon to two gallons an hour, trying to operate for 400 gallons, you're only going to be able to operate for about 15 to 16 days max. Now you multiply that times $3 a gallon, now you're talking about about, I would say, close to between $12 and $1500 for 15 days. Right. And a diesel engine has a sweet spot. Like you say, if you're not operating in that sweet spot, you're also becoming very inefficient and you've got to keep it running at a very inefficient level because you don't need all the power that it's generating. So you're actually wasting a lot of fuel that you don't need to and the equipment that you have can kind of load follow a lot better. Correct. Dynamically, it adjusts the consumption rate or the conversion rate of hydrogen to electrical energy depending on the load required at that specific amount of time. Going back to what I was saying in terms of the cost savings that we're talking about, so if you think about $12 to $1500 for 400 gallons or a ton, which fuels actually a little bit more, weighs a little bit more, so we're only talking about 400 gallons from the ammonia side in the U.S., at least on the mainland, you're talking about a $500 to $550 a ton. You're talking about a $500 to $550 a ton of fuel for 30 days compared to $12 to $1500 for 15 days. So there's a drastic difference in price in this woman's optics perspective compared not even factoring anything else. You know, this is where you can really significantly start saying that, you know, from a full cost of ownership, we are superior to a fuel country. Okay. You're looking at not only the fuel, but then you're also talking about the maintenance. Think about all the maintenance you have to do on mechanical components compared to a computer that basically is generating power because there's no mechanical components necessary to generate the power. Yeah, also, if you're not used to dealing with diesel engines, and I am, as backup power for our military operations, you have to sit there and actually clean the fuel every so often. You can't just leave it sitting in the tank, so that's another added maintenance cost that comes into maintaining, in addition to running them regularly so you know they work. Correct, correct. Let's go back to the slides. Yeah, I mean, so one of the other things, if I may stand. Okay. So we talked about the ammonia, but one of the other things that we're using as well, because again, as I mentioned, we're a technology that we use to building blocks to provide a result, right? Right. So not always do we say that fuel cell is the end-all, end-all. So one of the things that we also have complementary technology to where we can still connect to solar panels and batteries where necessary, whether it's applicable, where you still may want to use solar panels because it may be much cheaper, but you still need to have a fail-stage solution to generate that power, because again, we're talking about mission-critical equipment. Right. So if you use solar panels, that's great, but Mother Nature is never going to give you 100% of the energy needed all the time whenever you need it. So you have to have something on the backside as a redundant system that you can rely on, that you can actually generate power on demand. So that's one application. So we can always connect to that. The second one is that we can also utilize electrolyzers using water to work in similar to the way we were splitting the molecule between the ammonia molecule and the nitrogen molecule. We were splitting the hydrogen molecule and the oxygen molecule to generate electrical power, or I'm sorry, getting the hydrogen to feed the fuel cell to generate electrical power. So you can also use water as the means to generate clean electrical power by simply using electrolysis, which really doesn't matter where we get the electrical energy to support the application. We're coming from off-grid applications, from the utility, use saving at night, converting the water to hydrogen, storing it on tanks, and then using it today to kind of help support low-saving applications or strategies. Great. Well, actually we've got about one minute left, so I'm going to turn it all over to you because I know you've got lots to tell us. I don't want to hold you back. Well, thank you. That's pretty much what I wanted to let every of your audience know is that, you know, GenSo is a company that really kind of thinks outside of the box in terms of, you know, our main goal is to give you a result, and we wanted to make sure that we're using all available technology to make sure that we're giving you the most robust, most resilient, and more importantly, making sure that we're giving you the tools necessary to manage your operation more efficiently and cost-effectively. Great. We'll have Robert throw up that last slide on the screen there and we'll get at it. It's kind of a cool slide. It kind of says it all, you know? I mean, when there's no power around you, you're going to keep them running. So, Alex, I want to thank you very much for being on the show with us again. This is your second time on the show. I'm sure we're going to have you back again, and I'd like to actually talk more about, you know, what's going on in the future and how you folks see the future happening with your technology and your industry, which is the energy industry and using hydrogen and ammonia to create some power. But thanks again for being on the show and we'll get you back in a couple more months and get up to date with you. Thank you very much, Stena. I look forward to it. We have some very exciting things to share with you. Great. And that's going to do it for Stand Energy Man this Friday. Thank you for being a guest and thank you for being an audience here and watching Stand Energy Man. Thanks to Robert and Cindy here in the studio and we got a new production. Haley, the production, new production, you're all in the room there running everything, running all the background stuff. Haley, good to have you on board. Thanks for doing such a great job today. Until next Friday, m'Allah.