 welcome back this is still wine the morning and it is time for a very great discussion around career because that is something that concerns you in particular we're going to talk about career growth and skill development what exactly does that mean are you tired of where you are do you want to advance in your career well this is a discussion that we're going to have and we have James Soody in studio to help us with this conversation is the business development and partnerships lead at Dorian Associates LLP Kairu Sadajeev, Asunti Sana, thank you very much for having me, great to have you great to have you too or thank you for having me here welcome all right so let's talk about what's career growth and skill development yes for when we talk about career growth I think it means different things to different people yeah how would you explain career growth unless first of all look at career as a garden because everybody's career is just like a garden you have an assortment of good energies and good things that you can actually put in your garden so my understanding of career is not just one because at the end of the day you can do a lot of things in your career so in terms of growth when we talk about growth now it look it is the transition from one face of your life to the other not necessarily the intention of you making money but with the intention of you improving yourself and many times we have pushed career as it's all about making the money all through I want to get a good job to do this and that but even the individual who's trying to challenge you to ideally improve out there in the book in the in the rural area that is their career they don't have to make money out of it but they are improving so there's a purpose to everything you do that is part of your career growth so if you start looking at it from the essence of I am adding value not just to people but to myself and that's part of you growing in your career because the jobs find you when you're ready so career growth is all about you beginning with yourself and see how you transition going forward but look at it as a garden your career is a garden the garden you can have very many flowers very many types of fruits but once you do it that way then you have a possibility of looking at the opportunities that are there than saying I am only fixed to being a doctor and I cannot progress my career I cannot have any other thing around my career we have doctors who are chicken farmers we have doctors who are what do you call them they are guides in national parks but you never know you know so you have the ability of putting a lot in that garden so do not hold and constrain yourself amazing I love how you've introduced that because I wanted to ask this is really a thin line between you trying to explore your full potential and you know as you said you can be a doctor and you can still be a farmer you can do so many things but sometimes people spread themselves too thin so where do you know that I am doing I'm overdoing this and I need to really just stick to this yeah so we're going to explain that to us the idea of passion comes in because at the end of the day and I can for sure say this there are so many people today not just in Kenya not in Africa not just in the world that are still trying to find their footing and so you find yourself in so many things at the same time and trying to figure out and maybe that's why we have a new idea of career development being started at a very early age from primary school so at least you have an idea of a varied range of opportunities out there before you get to that point we're by in university and you have no clue where your career is heading so identify your passion because most of us don't take time to do it why because we have a system of education where you're told you need to have finish this class and do very well for you to progress to the next class do very well to progress to the next class to get a good school to go to in high school to get a good school to go to university and after that is when you're gonna get a good job to do and so when you find yourself in that particular position whereby you are too confused to do one thing so you're like I'm doing a degree because my parents want me to do this degree but then I want to be a DJ I want to do some bit of makeup on tiktok or rather I want to do some music so you find yourself in all this but you don't perfect one thing of course they talked about this particular adage that a jack of all trades but a matter of none which basically I've seen people who have become a master of everything a jack of none you know so we have to look at it in that particular respect that identify your passion know exactly what you want your passion doesn't have to make you money but it can bring in based on how good you are at it with careers it's all about being good at what you are and being comfortable where you are and and so it's important for individuals to basically accept this are my strengths and this is what I can do better so I identify that it's not an easy thing because we've been bothered with so many things in the world and we are also trying to compete and follow or so-and-so is doing this I also want to do this so you get confused in between instead of figuring out what it is that basically you're supposed to do we are all trying to identify our purpose you know so that is important for us to really appreciate okay so find your passion so career is linked to more willing to pop us yes what you meant to be yes and also that's linked to passion and value it should bring value to you totally to others so what does the money aspect come in in this current economy you know talking to a Kenyan out there Kenyan youth there and they have a passion in let's say music something that's not really bringing in money so well how do they progress in their career at the same time make money because they need to survive that's a very good question and you know and the unfortunate thing is that maybe we are already in a system that has not really favoured so much of the personal development or rather the initiatives and talents that maybe the youths are all individuals have why because we need to have a platform and a platform that basically provides you with the opportunity as a youth to be able to grow in your career in your business in your aspirations so you find yourself many times increasingly in an environment where you are only bombarded with unemployment issues jobs people are losing jobs instead of people gaining jobs and and so it's not enabling because either the systems in place the government or organizations have not put the resources that are required let's say for instance when companies are closing down manufacturing companies for instance are closing down you are aspiring to work in an organization like that let's say Samia Africa or in the mechanical industry and we don't have a manufacturing firm so it limits you and you find yourself only left with a few options so the challenge we're having and and the thing is this we have a system that really needs to be revisited in terms of providing for a very good relationship between education system and the industrial system so we we go through the education system and then now we join the industry but we don't have that particular good uh let me use the word marriage or relationship or partnership between industry and education and if we had that then we as youths would have a very proper idea of what it at is expected of us out there why should i have to finish university before i get to a job and when i get to that particular job interview i'm told you do not have five years ten years experience where was i supposed to get the five years or ten years experience if i did not interact with industry while i was going through my education we've had universities some of them in african others abroad that have come up with a system whereby how do we have industry experts uh source from as early as the first years to work uh on projects with us you know like microsoft will partner with stathmore university or partner with us say you partner with k u and say you know what let's work together we will put together a hub where as the it students are studying or as the biochemistry students are studying we have this project we're working on so by the time you're done with your four years you have some industry experience but at the same time you are required to produce that and you are very comfortable and confident can we create that confidence in the industry we don't have it as a moment because all we're doing is study wait for work and very many opportunities are there but we are our minds study and wait study and wait and so most of us are waiting and you can't wait there's so many opportunities to create them how do how do you create them well in school in a place where they're not really provided how do you go out yourself to get these opportunities so you just repeat that how do you how can a youth send themselves kujitoma direct translation out there to get the opportunities when they're not being provided how can they take advantage of the opportunity that they in school that that's time to create an experience out of out of it all because at the end of the day when they get to go for an interview they'll be asked for how many years of experience do you have it's it's very simple i think we need to create a culture of what do you call it and in very good words it would be do we have a network of people that we can actually derive a lot of skills and knowledge from this is the thing when you're in university there are so many opportunities there career fairs when even in primary school nowadays we have all these opportunities and events being launched there's something called kujitoma you have to because you can't wait so when there's an opportunity for you to do something when there's an opportunity for you to gain some experience go for it you can wait and wait until the world comes to yeah but it's not gonna come to you so as soon as you have an opportunity in school to get to have a mentorship session create and you don't have to have one mentor they can be a mentor for you for your own personal development we mentor for you on matters finances they could be a mentor for you on matters now career development you don't have to have one person having everything your mentors many times are your ambassadors out there because they know this is what you are good at and your mentors don't necessarily also have to be elderly people of course there are some levels you need someone who's elderly because you need the experience they have gained but there could be also your peers we create a network around ourselves maybe our parents had a very good and close-knit network that's why when your parent has an issue their friends are always there they're there because they created a very good support system today even in our own small circles as youths we need to have that particular small circle of friends that you can always not just go patting with not just go for road trips with but challenge each other to see the opportunities that are bound you know to invest together to start a small initiative together your career sometimes just springs from a small chama thing that you started maybe you started a bad-watching thing and before you realize national geographical like these guys are doing some very good job in Nairobi because you've actually put yourself out there and you never know that is your career but maybe you were studying engineering you see you're still an engineer and now you are an expert in bad-watching but you do not know you have to create it you have to really be make yourself available make yourself available make yourself available and it also speaks about the environment that you have the people that you have around you they also influence the person that you're going to become let's now talk about skill development where does it come in when we talk about career growth now this is a continuous process skills development started at a very early age you always acquire different things as you're growing up as a child you just do not realize it because at a point in time you're just picking things from the world at a very early age when you're growing you you learn to call mama or baba you learn to you're taught how to to clean dishes you're taught how to relate with people you taught how not to be a nuance next to visitors and you're learning a lot of things this skills development is not just so much about me gaining copyrighting skills or me learning how to let's go fishing or that it's it's all about it comes from within comes from within and that pushes you to basically go to the things that you love and skills development don't necessarily come from you sitting in a class or going online and learning something from youtube it could be just your environment you could pick a few things that basically and when you're when you're when you're developing yourself it's all about ideas it's all about picking ideas you can go for all the computer packages but figure out that guys have been doing it this way why can't we change the process of how this is why should i finish a university and go for computer packages why tie for an engineering course that is you know it's part of your skills development it's it comes from within as an individual you don't you don't just wake up one day and then you start developing your skills okay it grows from an early age there are kids today who are pastors okay very young kids you know and they're doing quite a bit of what um and it's impressive to see them did they have to wait until they were grown to learn it no it just came out also like the same thing we go back to the environment you learn things as you grow and as you go on with your life there are those that you intentionally learn and there are those that basically come without you having to even think you observing your parents you can decide to be a doctor like your dad from a very early age you can decide that you don't want to be anything close to what your parents are doing now you choose your path and you start growing and it's open you're not only fixated on your industry or or basically if you did it you want to just do skills development in it you could learn how to make soap because you felt this economy is just too hard for me can i try soap we've seen people actually doing may roasting maze with masters degrees it's a skill and you don't choose the problem is that sometimes we're very choosy do not choose if you have an opportunity to learn something go for it just do it and don't worry too much about the fact that people are going to say these or that i think we also have a lot of that happening in the world today so what will people say about me why am i not like so-and-so pick a skill pick skills i talked about career being a garden yeah pick skills give yourself time to learn and they're very simple skills out here that will make you maybe a billionaire in future because you do not know where you're going to be yeah since we don't know about tomorrow we work with today so what can you do today learn every single day learn something even if it's just a word in the dictionary that's a skill it's a skill it's a skill because people do not have vocabulary you know it's a skill so yeah okay very interesting so it's something that you learn constantly continuously all right now with the changing times are changing and workplace the job market in Kenya is also changing what are some of the trends in the workplace in Kenya you know particularly maybe even in the world but what are some of the changing trends that people should be aware of in the industry of course there's a lot happening in the tech industry that's a lot and i think we focus so much on tech we've forgotten about the few things that we have in the rural areas to do like farming is is is good it's important of course right now we are having people farming under the sea it's something that's coming up it's very expensive but it will actually rise but there's always something new coming up and so we since we don't know about tomorrow we'll work with today so some of the skills that are really cutting across we have AI has been a very key thing in turn and of course we have so many organizations right now looking for AI experts in various things be it software developers be it AI people who can manage governance for AI ethics but the biggest industries right now I would say for sure that if you crack you are good at what you do I mean you actually have things going not so much I wouldn't say tech because tech is there it's there for the taking everyone is taking it can be flooded and by anyone such GPT has come and so I could sit and tell such GPT to do everything so do we think we really want to compete in that area with such GPT no the service industry is very key it's growing we've seen a lot of things in the medical sector I mean a lot of things that are now happening in Africa with all these medical issues and problems we're having you need to be in tune with that that's why we have so many what do you call them care specialists coming up technology does not cannot cannot really does not have emotions you can't read people you can't read people you can't do all that but if you can be a psychologist psychology organizations will be looking for you because there's so many mental health issues in companies today if you just position yourself very well you're not looking at it that way but those are areas people need to focus on and at least have that as a skill even with CEOs need to have skills emotional intelligence appreciate and know how your employees are what is it that is affecting them psych therapists will be needed in organization today trust me and and the youths might be looking at their cash cows even in careers going to tiktok and doing makeup and having views and maybe hopefully that pays that's a cash cow that's something you can do effortlessly look for some challenges also for yourself so learn a new skill learn a new skill in the areas of even coding coding is important because Ryan I is becoming a key thing I've realized so that's part of tech that basically will always be there right now we're going to virtual reality issues of virtual reality are coming but I go back to the rural area and say agriculture because we're not growing we can have all this tech but we're not eating we will die we need food a better day we need food okay so we need to be able to sustain the technology we need to be able to eat well it's not going to do that so we need to provide us with that and organic so if you can be an organic farmer you trust me in the next couple of years we will need you in the next few maybe months depending on how you do it we will need you but more importantly have a group of people that you can support and work together let's not have this culture of I am roasting maize here my neighbor is also roasting maize and the other neighbor is roasting maize let me roast maize you supply the maize you bring the kachumbari okay you know and you bring the packaging but we are there it's an ecosystem we are creating so if I'm selling funds then let there be a repair shop next to this funds let there be someone else who's basically fixing other things on the force of providing accessories to my phones how do we change that culture is something that we need to think through we have already a certain business culture of copycat copycat copycat it means it's working for us someone has opened a site but it's doing well so you decide to open so we need to stop that and think about how unique a service can I offer for this but at the same time also the vendor should accept we also need to basically start accepting each other in our own ways because I say that thing we're too selfish we should stop being selfish we should it's internal it's not something the government is going to do it's not something that we're going to tell you to do these it's it's something that is ingrained we need to develop that culture of of working together and embracing that national cohesion and seeing how it because trust me if we rely so much on the government and especially what's working everybody have their own interests so do you have your interests as an individual can you look for your interests and work towards meeting them because no one is going to feed that find an interest to group and work with also so it's important to look at it that way so there's so many opportunities just look out for them don't just say it's the IT sector there's the agricultural sector there's actually the hospitality sector which is coming up find ways there's the NGOs because we have so many things also some parents are grappling with disabled children find ways of actually how you can actually meet some of these challenges the needs let's not look very far and say this is flashy flashy is not so much what is going to give you we're looking for happiness do you think the money is happiness not necessarily always I mean your peace you can have all the money but no peace and you always keep on looking at your shoulders whether someone is on your back you know because you have all the money now just look for your peace and live within your means also as you scale up okay so basically also what you're saying is look for a problem that's there and be create a solution to it that's the thing all right so if you're looking at trends you will go with the trends and forget to fix your problems because we can go with the trends to Canada does not need AI Mars have been may not need it countries counties that have a lot of wiring challenges may not need tech an ambassador for peace and with that it's good that we are in counties now in the country so each county has something to provide for another county so see how basically you can work with people there to do that of course the system may not favor you because the biggest challenge we have of people are always saying that I need to know someone to have a godfather I need to have this and stop the mentality of godfathers don't because when the godfather is not there then you don't have your career if you base your career on a godfather or someone who's you know if they're not in that position anymore it means your job is in the line so sustainability of your job of your career is also very important okay speaking of godfathers now what's the difference between having a godfather and networking because they also say that most opportunities most job opportunities are not really advertised out there it's the people that you know the networks that you have in there so what what do we draw the line between having a godfather and having networks because I think there's there isn't a clear understanding it's a huge problem we've created it's already there and it's a mentality that needs to change having a godfather is your own dad can be your godfather since he's maybe a CEO somewhere or manager somewhere and managed to get you on board but they say getting to the door is one thing your performance matters you can prove people wrong you can prove people right that you are only here because of someone networking is different it's not necessarily just having a one support system like it's your dad or it's your uncle it's networking is you've spread your your your wings you have so many opportunities and options around you since you've been chatting with someone they know exactly what you're good at they don't have to call you for an opportunity for the sake of you making the money but because they know you're good at what you do and they really want to grow you so networking platforms give you a variety of opportunities and options and gives you the room to think out of the box having a godfather you're only focused on that it's it's everything it's this is I can't do anything without them yeah and it it it makes you so dependable instead of make you independent to do your things at times you might find you have someone who sponsored you and they want you to do things the way because they sponsored you so you are limited in your growth networks give you growth they give you opportunity they give you a reason to live when you're with your a god sponsor or that you sometimes find yourself wanting to just please them so that you keep on staying on course keep on getting that you don't even have growth at that point in time because the if they choose that you're going to be in that position you're just going to be there because that's what you wanted to be put there so you stay yeah you don't think about getting beyond that because then you're like maybe people will not be be comfortable with my skills people will not see me this I need to wait for them for my godfather to tell me whether it's right for me to so don't hold yourself with that it needs to change and that's why we need to create our own small networks as youths also because some youths are already working why can't you pull another youth when you have an opportunity when you have an activity going on somewhere and it's it's it's going to be a learning experience pull your friends share give them that information you are here today tomorrow you're here or you're here so and by the time you're here and you pulled someone at this point in time they'll be like up you you you pulled me up create those networks as you wait for godfathers because they pass on they go then they leave you without having a good network of people to support you and again so build your networks amongst yourselves it helps you guys grow wow amazing creating a system where we can help each other you need to do that all right now in a system where there's a lot of an employment and also those that are in in employment are constantly looking for other job opportunities how do you make sure that you stand out in a position that you you are in in an organization already you need to be very proactive now there's being reactive and being proactive reactive is when something has already happened and now you're coming on board or you're reacting to it and then there is proactiveness whereby you suggest things you are influencing a lot of change in the organization or you're just being also stubborn stubbornness is not a bad thing there's stubbornness that is just stubborn and you are just not making everybody progress but there's stubborn that basically brings a lot of change in an organization because of the way they think the way they work find your place in the organization many times we don't find our place we get a job and we are there we're comfortable we are not building a rapport with others we are there just to meet the tasks that we've been given we are not willing to go over and beyond why because see they're paying me for this i'm going to do what they're going to pay me for forget about that and that's where now we come to that point we stop working for just the money and the mula the mula will always come do you want it to be that you're only constrained with that particular salary that you got or do you want to have progress or growth many times in an organization they give you six months three months six months probation what are you doing with that time learn the organization take time to even learn the organization even if it's just for six months but at the same time try and deliver you will you will fail you will gain but celebrate your failures many times when you don't celebrate our failures we don't see our progress you will always see yourself stagnant failures help you realize that you need to improve and go beyond but create sustainable relationships in the organization don't be a loner you can be an introvert but don't be a loner you can find other introverts to read books together these are things that you do that may not necessarily make sense but when someone is sitting in a board room they know oh then you join us either and we read books with put yourself in people's minds okay if you are in people's minds someone will speak about you in some closed door without you realizing you see you might be having a meeting and they want to hire someone new and then one of the managers knows they've been interacting with you and they know this but why are we going far and so on so it's good at this so put yourself out there okay yeah let someone else speak at you in closed door then you also get good friends who speak about you okay wow I like that don't be a you can be an introvert but don't be a loner there's a difference between the two okay very interesting and how does the workplace culture influence your career growth it does a lot culture it's strategy for breakfast as guys in the consultancy area field and in that we say that it's strategy for breakfast so a good culture can destroy the morale a good culture can build the morale of employees and and and of course also yield productivity in the organization because there's a form of connectedness there's a form of family there's a form of teamwork there's a form of growth people are seeing opportunities and they are contributing about culture lessens your level of productivity it discourages even from working up in the morning you know you're like don't want to go to work can I call in sick today you know you look for all manner of excuses and and so that's where we we need to realize it proper cultures and the culture also starts from the top we always say it stems from the top do your research also if it's a career of opportunity for you do your research about the organization get to learn about how they do things how is it how they how do they take leaves for instance how do they take do you have a proper medical cover all this culture speaks to so many small things in the organization from the reception sometimes I basically look at these when I walk into organization sometimes how are you treated by the watchman at the gate it talks about the organization talks about the organization so the security personnel the cleaners also how do you treat them how do you relate I mean do you say hi and how do they respond people just silent in that organization you're there for an interview or you're there to just have a meeting and and these are a whole lot of people are disconnected so much from each other and so it's important that you also look at the culture of the organization before you will not get everything but the most important things is how do people relate so each other don't we go so much on the issue of where is the money and how much money and sometimes you go for an interview thinking about how much you're going to quote yeah then what you're going to go through I mean in terms of the questions and how you're going to articulate some of these things so think about the culture in fact the questions you ask at the end of the interview and they ask you one of the good questions to ask about the culture of the organization it's good for you to know it shocks the other side of the of the panel that there's something you value about the environment that you're going to be working in so kata has a very big role to play in career progression if you don't find yourself fitting in that place please just move it helps you basically realize other opportunities out there but when you stay somewhere you don't realize opportunities it doesn't open you up okay not all of us are good at finding ideas but when they shock your system you actually find a way of actually progressing on other things so don't lock yourself when the kata is not tried it's important okay it's very important something very key to look out for when you're looking for a new job you need to have a piece of mind we are all looking at what what what makes me want to go to work every day so it's important okay before we close this conversation because we are short of time I want you to speak on on self-belief because some people have a lot of potential but they don't really believe in themselves and there's something that imposter syndrome yeah so how can someone break away from this very quickly as we wrap this up self-belief is of course a key ingredient as an individual you have first of all to believe in yourself it's hard to believe in ourselves because we have put a lot of what do you call it we've told ourselves that someone has to approve of me nobody has to just approve of you you have to basically go out and do your things be as weird as you can someone will identify your weirdness and find something good for you to do in terms of our weirdness so the challenge we have is being ourselves and that's that's that's that's a skill also in itself being yourself self-belief is something you tell yourself every day when you wake up in the morning that I am I am I am better than yesterday well we can add I am God's child you can do all those things but you need to be your own cheering squad if you're not your own cheering squad you can't wait for other people to cheer you up you have to start from yourself so getting out there and getting job interviews you go there with only one intention to win if you go there with doubts on whether this is a perfect job for you or not then you shouldn't have been there in the first place so go there with the one thing I'm going to win but also prepare impostor syndrome many times because you're not very prepared we we we want a more Kenya more Kenya for interviews we want it just to be as easy as we want you cannot define how the interview is going to be but you can go with what it is that you want to really you can turn the interview around for your good but figure it out it's something you also learn as time goes by so believing in yourself is you keep on telling yourself even if you slept in the streets the people who just kept on telling themselves that this is not mine this is not mine this is a this is this is a suffering that I'm have to go through for a while but this is not me so try your best as an individual to keep on telling yourself look at yourself in the mirror and argue with yourself talk to yourself pray about it sometimes we don't pray so much about these things but you have to pray we don't be if you don't believe in prayer try because it works it works yeah I agree it helps you a lot get out of the all confusion that you have and then talk to people that you know build you if you're going for interview talk to someone give a call to someone don't say that I can do this call someone as for telling yourself that you can do it call someone say by the this is what I'm going to do this is how I'm going to go about it pray for me or basically give me some little bit of advice so that's how you're supposed to do it wow amazing thank you very much James for such amazing insights around this topic what can people get you on social media and maybe you can give if there's one thing that someone should take one or two things that someone should take from this conversation what should those be and this is your camera directly oh great thank you it's good to be here and thanks so much to all the viewers I mean it's important to know that like I mentioned the career is like a garden so nurture it and grow it I work for an organization called Dorian Associates and it's important for me to actually mention this here because we are legal and governance experts in the areas of corporate governance and so we do company secretary or board evaluation so dealing a lot with individuals at that particular level and this basically would be your networks also to build and grow even as you're growing in your own careers the most important thing to know is that as you're growing in your own careers is to be one more importantly just self-determined and so so like an ego because we tend to hold ourselves back every the time try as many new things as you can until you actually are able to get your thing going so do not wait for your papers to take you to places go out to just flourish because at the end of the day you have yourself to blame if you do not actually grow and if you wait for your parents or your friends or your colleagues at work to do this it will not happen people look for the potential in you but you just shine there's a diamond okay good thank you very much James once again yeah all right there has been James Studios here as he said his the business development and partnerships lead at Dorian Associates and it's been telling to us about career growth and skill development we've taken something from it mine is that my career is like a garden and what I need to do is soar go out there try every other day be better than you are today all right so that's where we put a cup on it but more is to come Val is coming back with youth and politics a very interesting discussion that you want to be a part of remember the hashtag is one the morning at why to fight for channel so we're going to take a short break and stay with them