 Okay, so this is the wiki-dojo exercise. This is the first time we're trying it at the Bay Area wiki salon and And we have selected the article topic for a brand new Wikipedia article on the ghost town Royals and if you don't know who the ghost town Royals are you're about to learn So our pilot to start us off is Ben and our co-pilot is Eugene And I'm gonna hand off the mic and see where they go in the next seven minutes sweet We might need some help. How do you how do you write this ghost town Royals? Okay, we have this ghost town royal and and you might notice I should be talking should yeah, no Okay, but I mean ghost town ghost town Royals not picking up a whole lot for me Did you try ghost town one word ghost town one word? Oh, is it one word? I have no idea Yeah, so ghost town and then how about I add Royals on here, right? Yeah, so that that appears all together Google news gives me one result Google all Gives me something about Madonna Terror and terrace five years after it was Oakland, right? Okay, and yeah One of the things I like to do is to split screen here. That's why I'm doing it like this I'm working on an article, but hmm Maybe it maybe Oakland. Yeah, let's try Oakland. There we go It's the Oakland Royals the Oakland Royals Oakland's ghost town. Oh, okay Local baseball program for kids run by Bryant Jr. And his wife, you know, this actually looks like a very good article SF Chronicle You think we should just copy the URL. We've got a couple minutes. We've only got a little bit Okay, oh, you're just diving right in nice Why we're really feeling the pressure here all right a So I'm actually not sure can we um Yeah, let's just let's just quickly skim this so Let's see not a powerhouse baseball club most of the kids live in ghost town So there's probably a Wikipedia page on ghost town right now. That'd be interesting for the Oakland Royals ball club, so they were originally in Reckon Park League in a San Francisco Reckon Park League. That's interesting So they sucked Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah So so I think we should probably like start to write a lead sentence here a little bit because we don't have a whole lot of time Like I can copy paste this and then I can actually generate a citation is a local baseball league. I Think they're a local baseball team. I didn't see the league right so they were playing in the San Francisco league Local baseball program is what it's called here. You're right. It's not a league program team We'll call it a team. Sure, then we're not copying pasting from them The local baseball team founded in 2004 For kids from ages four through I don't know what the other ranging kids ages four to 13 Yeah, there's a good. It's a good lead We'll cite. This is the handy thing about this new citation generator. I Can just do this and then boom I have that Yeah, that's I've never seen the citation generator before that's cool I think for the the visual editor right now, which is kind of nice I'm not actually sure how to add there. Okay here. We can add references list and now we're also going to insert That's right here subheading References actually that probably should be a subheading one or even like a heading. Yeah, that looks right. Okay, and then In their first year they Went zero to 23 is that is that worth stating here? Sure They lost every game That's kind of sad but true Wonder if this thing will automatically pick up that It's okay, so we can also copy and paste this guy if we don't want to generate duplicates Hopefully Then What else can we say a few years later? Oh There was a gun that's sort of a minor detail. I don't think that's a cyclopsychopedic maybe maybe that What do you think? I'm wondering where they play right now, right? They started in San Francisco and there's this whole ghost town thing So I'm wondering if we scroll down and find that That's a good idea So the movie the movie seems significant right mentioning that there was a movie made made about it They took it to Cuba Interesting. Tell me what tell me what I should write though if I if you see something that I should put in there What would your those 2010 I? Would say in 2010 the team Or the founder. Oh, so let's maybe mention the founder. So it was founded by this guy I'm not Roscoe Bryant Because there's some core guy see or are Okay, so who is the oh Jean? Oh, he was the filmmaker. Okay, so Roscoe Bryant Just in case it's founded by Roscoe Bryant highlight it and then We will forget how you actually this thing I Think if you do this What did you what did you press press control K and then so now that's wiki-length and then and then and a film was made About it, I'm gonna keep it simple right now by Jean or in 2000 and Jean core apparently he's not very famous either So not yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're about to make it famous. Okay Just working one two So I don't know if we can do this, but I had an idea for changing the rules a little bit because I was kind of bored out there So tell me if this works I'll still be the co-pilot and he's still a pilot and he'll do all the typing But I'm kind of be gonna be a bottleneck now So I'm gonna be the interface between all you guys and him and I'm gonna wander around or maybe if I can do it from here I'll do it from here So I want everybody to get out their phone and search ghost town Royals and then everybody's gonna pick First reference the second look to make sure that doesn't look like the exact same thing it has this it's about the film So then go to everybody go down to the third but in theory the first relevant one second one Steven third fourth Meryl Lee the fifth one Yeah, Andrea sixth one I Forgot seventh one and the ladies sitting down the the next one and then the one after that and if you guys want to play the Two after that Are we good? Does everybody have that pulled up on their phone ghost town Royals? So you're gonna you're gonna have each person like pick one fact and I'll record the either that I'm gonna basically have everybody Shout out at once and I'm gonna try to pick a person to talk to while everybody's looking stuff up And the person who's ready talks to me and then I'll run over here and talk to him Or maybe he'll just hear it and then I'll just go to the next one and fun. Yes, he's a mic and I'll hear it So I love this idea. I think it's a great idea, but I want to point out that it presupposes That the thing that we're doing is looking for Looking for citations to build the article, which is really what we need to do at the beginning So I'm good what I'm gonna suggest is like let's absolutely do this in this round as Peter's suggestion But then after this let's go back to the normal format unless you really want to do something like this Yeah So let me some people might want to be putting in photos or fixing typos or something and maybe going around the audience isn't the way to Let me build on his idea just just to maybe maybe in the spirit of that So actually what was slow about what Ben and I were doing was like we didn't have time to really read the articles Right, so actually I think what would be useful to crowdsource it is if people want to read What's happening and then when you go around like just tell us something that is both interesting and sightable We can go ahead and record this is actually what I meant. I didn't actually care about the reference for starters I was looking for facts to stuff into the article as fast as yeah, that sounds good Yeah, so anybody got something already a fact somebody anyone Okay, and No, you're Peter Forgot his name Hi Mike you have a fact for us or who anybody has a fact shouted out or raise a hand back in back in that row. Yes Nicholas raise so, okay Or shall I just repeat it or the the other for that fact the other coach is Nicholas is it with an C H O L or Ola s and Reyes R E Y A E s Reyes like point raise was he was he a founding coach or is he a current coach? While they're doing that anybody else with the fact in the documentary. Okay, okay They were featured in a film by screenwriter Eugene core C O R R Okay, so we've got featured in a film called ghost town to Havana was it early Ghost town to Havana by Eugene Okay, I don't see Eugene car with RR. Yeah, I don't see an article about him. I don't know. Let's just leave it red link and we'll figure it out later We'll figure that out. Just got a fact Yes, what was the name of the movie again ghost town to Havana? This is from the Mercury news October 2015 the article it says today there are five Oakland Royals teams for youth ages 7 to 15 How was this related to how is this related to the article? so the person who organized the Oakland Now the Oakland Royals also created a youth league is that what it is? And so and so they they play in a youth league that he organized Yeah, it says today this article is written in October 15 It says today there are five Oakland Royals teams for youth ages 7 to 15. So So it is wasn't a league before it is a league now Who's next who's got a fact? Yes We got a Yeah, we got it. Okay, we got a slow down I'm just having trouble with the keyboard and also the visual editor because I have not used this before Okay, so what I'm just trying to figure out is I just wanted to record What was your name again? I'm sorry packs packs. I wanted to record with pack said so Was it five and you have a you have a citation Santa's aim your green is That citation generated is cool. So I have another fact for you from Mike Which is that the Nicola Sereis which we talked about previously is the coach of the team in Havana not the team here Okay, another fact for me back That's some facts back here goes down Royals Any facts back here? Right became a coach after witnessing a young man's murder in front of his house Seems kind of an interesting founder and the coach of the original team He witnessed the murder in front of his house Yeah, I mean, I think it's implied it's in the Richmond confidential baseball film reflects relationship between East Bay Between the East Bay and Cuba. It's an article. That's fairly substantial and Then you know he and his then wife decided that forming a baseball team He and his then wife decided that forming a baseball team was a way that they could help young men in their community So Bryant joined the rank the vanishing ranks of African-American volunteer coaches in the East Bay founding the Oakland Royals so that sort of tells you what his motivation was and Moving faster than than me. So so he founded the team. So I'm just gonna ignore the Okay, so what I'm just gonna do is I'm gonna ignore the citations because that can be covered here I'm just gonna get the facts and someone else can film in after so So you were saying he founded it after he saw a kid shot in front of sauce It just says murder doesn't say shot. We probably should be very clear So real quick can we get it in he got his first equipment from Goodwill and Salvation Army for the team I think that'll probably be our last entry It was a kid who was murdered Was that the equipment for the team or was donated originally by Goodwill and Salvation Army? Thank you Okay, so So do we have anything left over before that we needed to reference and I'm also actually I'm probably not a very good pilot for What do you call it when you're editing in this mode? I usually edit from the wiki code I don't actually know how to do this too well. Oh I do Sure, so people have edited in word or similar programs or maybe even in your email online You're used to being able to type stuff and then maybe bold it or underline it and do stuff like that possibly even bullet points And papers and stuff and I believe that this is kind of like that, but I kind of like editing Did I do it? Oh this one Know that oh cool Okay, so I like Since I'm from a programming background. I like Editing in this mode, which probably looks pretty mysterious to most people who are not used to it, but I'm comfortable. So What have we got? So in co-piloting where there's some more sources that we hadn't incorporated yet or that up forward Okay, so I'm looking at this article now. We have a little bit of Background about the the teams we have some background. We have a documentary Do we have any information about where they play or? Sorry any kind of schedule if people wanted to get involved or find out about that Is there a source that maybe is external that we could find out what's happening? I don't want to actually say or I guess I could say that You can't say going I'll just be sure Okay, so what I was doing was just changing the references to a ref list template So that I could put in a width parameter So we're kind of building in this space that if there are more references we have a place for that to go Which sounds great. I ran so that Links or the official website does somebody we somebody tell me is external links right before references right after I can't remember Right after references We're gonna build external references right after externally Like the official website is a great. Is there an official website or the So we have a Facebook page. We're looking at Oakland dash Royals and maybe on their about page I think maybe they would link out to something else just in case If you search for Oakland rolls, yeah, you'll get it and maybe on that page We could take another look and see if there's anything else that would come up Do we know if the city of Oakland is involved in this at all or is this completely a grassroots effort once we kind of get Peace in we didn't find anything about city. That's that's what I was starting to look at to see if the City of Oakland has any information about how baseball leagues work. I saw little league You know, where does this kind of fit in if people are interested in terms of Baseball in Oakland. Sorry. We have the age range ready. It says here on Facebook youth range in age from four years to 15 years Did we have that already? Oh, we did, okay, so not a whole lot in this space, but Okay, so we know that there's a film. Do we have a h2 heading for the film? Let's add one We do where is it background? Those tend to have a document. Okay. Let's say something else about the film. When do we know when the film was made? 2000 the article and then the top you have one two three up to five or maybe six paragraphs Which summarizes the rest and since this is just a stub that should probably just be one But it already says that a documentary was made and so all of that information should actually be in the main body Well, let's just get there for now and then we can make it so it's a little different waiter was founded Okay, that's not a film was made. It's a documentary. I will say that Documentary film was made about it by Jean Corre in 2010 and decided pardon Thank you 2013 Called goes down to Vanna Nicholas Reyes coach the team in Havana that was covering the documentary Do we know anything else about the film when I was looking before I came up here? I saw tons of stuff about but I didn't have a chance to know what it was So there's an IMD IMDB page Oakland magazine so it says They learned a few things about how to play the game of baseball from Reyes Who was a mentor to all of us once back home the Royals turned things around and won the next 48 games to zero You're the next pilot don't go away All right, so I just want to break in here. I think we've done an Interesting experiment by going around through the room I was warned before I started this that I was gonna have to have a iron fist about Only the co-pilot gets to talk to the pilot and I think I've seen that in action There's lots of good ideas coming up here, but I also feel like it's getting a little bit spread out So let's try a few rounds back to the original format of only the pilot and the co-pilot talk and the rest of us listen and observe And let's really be rigorous about trying to get the microphone to the pilot so that we can actually hear so our new pilot and or no and Yes, I yes, you should pick a co-pilot and you should become the pilot someone with some experience can help me I'm a very new Wikipedia editor, so I could take a Someone who has a lot of wing time in their experience and Wikipedia be great. Just Wayne Wayne. Can I volunteer you? Thank You Wayne good hands lean in okay. We'll make it work. Should we do a save on this? Okay, Andrea the first thing you should do is a save save I like saving okay Do I need to do an edit summary here and say anything? Yes, please Say something a little more descriptive, but brief wiki dojo Session yeah, put in a put in a hashtag too. What do you want me to have that? Just like put a space in the hashtag after session. I think we run out of space here We have oh, no, we don't great Okay hashtag Would you like in the hashtag be a wiki salon great Be a wiki salon I'm gonna go ahead and save Okay, now. Where are we driving? I'm gonna go back to edit mode. You want to add it in? In visual editor or in source code. I think I'm so new that it really doesn't matter. I'll learn either way You might learn more with visual editor because it's more like Wizzy wake what you see is what you get that's great. So what what do you want to put in there? I'm not gonna tell you what to put in Now you're my my co-pilot here. Um, I'll tell you how to do it. Okay, great So I was interested in finding a link to them themselves. I think we've gotten something from their Facebook group page I'm just curious if there's anything else that exists that reporters had a chance to to cite or use when they Had their their newspaper sites. So do we have anything from maybe? Jean core or Who are the page? Okay Search for something about Oakland Baseball do we know what league there to be in it is their only I'm just wondering how how baseball leagues work and are they fitting into that structure whatsoever It's not part of little league Oakland Royals league played around with some of that Did you say you wanted to search for a certain person? I Was curious about him. So put his name in quotes On the other page We'll capture this So we're getting some of these articles that are coming up I'm curious if there's anything that we could look for in the city of Oakland. So can we do a Site and have Dot gov or dot org we can see that plays around with anything here I think that's gonna just take us off How about city of Oakland? We don't know if they're a gov or dot org sometimes the the local cities can just play around with how they're referenced Here's a different source You have some more from those You find out what city of Oakland is is a rabbit hole I Think the ghost town Royals is a team and they're in a league They're in a city league You can see that the you know City of Oakland website the official website is Oakland net calm But um, you know if they have any reference to them or anything else she interesting But so go so do site Oakland that dot org Good idea in their Google search. I'm just gonna copy that right here And kind of pop that back into the site There you go It'll give it some water coffee from that point, but I think we got it Oakland net calm. Thank you. I thought it was open that word Find out pretty quick Oakland net calm. Yeah, okay. You're right Have anything with him. Did you file anything with the city? Yeah, city. Oh We're breaking it up in between Roscoe and Bryant The many rural assessment Interesting things in here, but not necessarily by him And I think that's one of the reasons is Oakland is kind of breaking up the search phrase searching sure frustrating So I think we're falling down a kind of rabbit hole in that one Yeah, I want to add something here so Get back to our piece here. Is there anything else that we could find about Him and maybe what he was interested in doing or how he went about creating that local I think ghost there is a region of Oakland. Can we do something with that? one minute social service one man this is how And in terms of the Oakland Royals Gonna bring us more. I think to the film that we were talking about but One more source from synis source about him Is a one-man social service agency providing more benefit the city of Oakland than a 20-person bureaucracy laden department ever could It seems like it has some editorial flare to it So the hood ghost town is a 20 block triangle of Oakland starting at West Grand going to 35th Street Is that some information that we could play with a little bit of it? Okay, brief Should we find out where this is and see if there's an official name for that neighborhood ghost town? That's the official. That's the unofficial Should I copy out some of this? paraphrase it How about a copy and then we'll paraphrase from that and in terms of the editor Yeah, you could try that down I'm not saying sure. Okay. Where would I put that? background Okay, now you're a pilot and it's had some fun out here finding sources Okay, I was thinking it would be fun to add a photo What kind of photo would be what kind of photo would be relevant? Well, I think the best thing would be to have a picture of the team But I looked around I didn't find any great photos of the team, but maybe Maybe someone else has did find a nice photo of the director and the coach Maybe that's the best we can do. Okay. I found that with the Google images search It's got to be a public domain Okay, I'm sure but the But the copyright status of that How would we go about finding a public domain photo for that? Best thing is something on the wiki wiki media commons. Okay, maybe we can check that So we'll go over here Or maybe we could ask it a librarian Ah What are we searching for Oakland Royals Maybe Oakland Royals baseball. I think this is a long shot. So we're okay. Well, personally I'd be interested just to see how you would import a photo and and Incorporated into the article. Maybe we can just pretend that it's We have the copyright permissions for now This is just an exercise. Oh Yeah, that's an idea something more general So on the comments the best place to find things is in categories So we're gonna look in category little league and then that shows us that in the C's There's five photographs here the D's there's two Photographs and the L's there's 38 photographs Actually, those are those are subcategories Con Edfield is a subcategory and then in that subcategory. There's five photos Which subcategory do you want to see I would go for the little league World Series? Actually, we could go down to and see what actually I like that one in the lower right hand corner though This one. Yeah, the batter photo there. Okay, so we can just click on that And we can we can either click on use this file Or we can grab the file name Okay, we could try use this file and I don't like that I'll just do it my way So I'll just grab the file name Copy that to the clipboard Go back to the article Then how do you what do you do with a? How do you get an image into? Visual editor can you paste it in? I don't even have to save it. I'll just put a switch Okay, where in the article do you want the photograph? I'd like one right at the top to grab the viewers eyes okay, so We'll just do a couple line feeds go up to the top We'll put in a couple square braces We'll paste in the file name that doesn't Had an NT that What is it the last word is bunt so at an NT dot and Dot jpeg that notice that a space. Yeah, no space. Okay, that should do it then we could put a We could put the word thumb here so we could type in a So we could type in a caption What kind of caption would you like? Let's see this one isn't relevant to the We could leave the other team. We could leave the caption blank by typing in the word alt With an equal sign and not populating it. That sounds good. I think that'll just Think that'll work. Let's do a preview. That looks nice. So we got a thumbnail without a Without a caption Okay, I Think that works. Okay. What else would you like to do? Let's see One just cutting in real quick. I think the D in documentary should be down cased I'm just gonna do that real quick Most things on Wikipedia are in sentence sentence case Unless it's a proper noun Okay, what next? I Think we should describe a little bit the neighborhood that that this This team exists in I guess it's hinted at by the young man being murdered in front of his house, but maybe We could describe the Yeah, and I think maybe we can find something about that by doing a search on There's a little bit about ghost town Which tells the boundaries of it. Uh-huh. Okay. I was thinking more of the socioeconomic status of the town. Okay Okay, maybe we can find an article at least ghost town Okay Is there a section on ghost town in there? I know they have I know they have Okay, well It seems like an important aspect of this with the film and the existence of the team is that is that it arose from this particular from a poor Part of town where there's a lot of violence The coat the coach's incentive was to was to try and overcome that with with this nice baseball activity So to give some background, I think would be good for the reader. All right, so I Want to suggest that we pause here and and discuss what we've learned. I think let's let's have a hand for our Last couple pilot and co-pilot and for all of our pilots and co-pilots Let's do another general round of applause. There's a lot of So thank you all for going through that My sense is that I probably picked Or sold a very difficult topic. It was a little harder to track down the details of this than I expected it to be But I guess I'd like to maybe Take five or ten minutes and just kind of debrief that and see what like what did we learn from it? Did we enjoy it? Is it something we should try again? You know, I'm just I'm can someone tell me what they thought of what we just did Maybe someone who is in the audience the whole time Wayne I think that Okay, I think actually I'd be interested maybe just before we get into it Just just to see a show of hands like we had we had a couple rounds where we had a lot of people Participating and a couple where we were more rigorous about it just being the two people So which did you like better? Did you like a lot of people? So raise your hand for a lot of people One two three four five six and did you prefer when it was just the pilot in the co-pilot two and a half interesting Okay Steven yeah, so I like this whole concept like in principle But in reality, I feel like a lot of Wikipedia writing is actually like reading and digesting information Which is something hard to do in seven-minute chunks So we found ourselves like kind of skimming articles and trying to fix like fit small fact bites into a topic that I think none of us really knew anything about before we started which I mean it's a lot of fun But that's not really Wikipedia like Wikipedia is thinking and processing and explaining and You know if we all took like a binder of articles home and then read them We could probably come in and do this the next day, but it would be much less exciting So I'm not exactly sure how you reconcile that you know if we're all experts at this topic when we came in it Would probably have an awesome Wikipedia article that would be hard to contribute to in the first place So I'm curious exactly how this works when other people do it Because I've heard a lot about it. I Just did was sort of surprised when I realized like oh, yeah, Wikipedia is a lot of reading well said and when I like your idea of Copilot being a conduit for for one at a time audience members Think it's it's helpful to kind of keep the room alive to to receive input Yeah, I had similar ideas even while I was watching it It it seems a little bit rushed to try and skim through articles and and find pertinent bits of information But I think as a group we managed to do that to some extent So Is this on yeah So the idea that I had is actually a follow-up on something that Steven was saying which I took your point I started thinking about that and I think if we're trying to come up with it It depends kind of what the point is if we're trying to come up with a nice polished good article I think you win that one hands down on what you were saying, but if it's really a collaborative platform In you know live or we're trying to get something out there Stub draft crappy article that will then be built on later I kind of think it's okay to spit watermelon seeds at the page And then do the stuff that you can't do in seven-minute chunks at home You know maybe somebody who's more used to building on an article that's there as opposed to creating one Which is in a lot of ways is harder. I didn't do it for a few years when I started I think Um So I think this is okay. I mean we don't have to say this is a good article. It's a crappy article, but it's there now It's a whole lot easier to sort of look at all these little Gonna say sound bites, but whatever seeds and then and sort of create a narrative around that So I'm kind of okay with what happened here. I mean there's obvious stuff We would all sit down and change this all around, but that's good. We already have ideas of where to go with it So I do want to hear from Pax, but either you or or the next person I'm I'm curious if there's anyone here that that had It would that saw something that really surprised them like an idea or an approach that they wouldn't have thought of I'd really be interested to hear about that So I was just gonna say something else, but sure well actually that that works partially for what I was gonna say because even as an Experienced editor. I mean I've been an editor for seven over seven years now But the last time I looked at the visual editor. It was awful When it first been launched and I haven't used it since so seeing some of the features in the visual editor in this demo It was like hey, it's made a lot of improvements the citation assistant Especially maybe I want to try to take a look at that again at the same time I'm just you know editing by committee is just not very exciting or you know useful for me personally I mean I could see especially for someone very new to Wikipedia to see the process like this It would be useful, you know for that But that's that's why it was kind of like you know had my hand half raised for the for the original idea But not raised at all for the group idea because it just didn't particularly work for me But again just seeing some of the features of the editor was useful for me. So I thought I Didn't enjoy the group thing because there's two chaotic and I but also the original idea there was a lack of Bandwidth I think and so I actually I hate to suggest Technical fix but actually I think that's asynchronous communication channels needed if you had a chat where people were Suggesting references and that could easily be copy and pasted and there's It could act could actually make life easier for the people who are Driving And I wondered if we shouldn't have pivoted to an article about the film which actually had a lot more material so So it's called a wiki dojo and so to me like the point of it is learning I think this is a little bit of Peter's point. It's not necessarily to produce a great article But it's actually what can we learn from each other? I have to say personally Even it was kind of chaotic and all those different things and yet I found it extremely interesting to see how different people just thought and approached a Wikipedia article Right and I noticed a lot of differences in how people approach it versus how I approach it And would probably change a couple of things that I would do I also noticed just little like little things little ticks that people have which I find Completely fascinating. I think one thing about the process one of the So I'm a process person right one of the most common mistakes that people make about process is they edit it too quickly This is working in other places There's probably a reason why it's working that doesn't necessarily mean it will work everywhere But I think we gave up on it pretty quickly And I think one of the things to the point that one of the organizers said to you Pete about how like rule it with an iron fist I think the value of doing that at least the first time around is People kind of get into the groove and you you've learned from that experience So I think it would be valuable to try I have fairly Limited editing experience, but I today I learned how to Add a citation with the visible visible editor and also had to add an image I was amazed that you could just Type in the image title basically between two square brackets and that's how to insert the image That was a lot simpler than I expected it to be I Just wanted to comment on like Steven's point where I I understand where where you're coming from about like You should read and you should understand your source But I constantly try to think of like, you know, the perfect is the enemy of the good like always Try to see if you can do something rather than nothing and I think that's the biggest thing what we could be there's so many competent people who just don't do nothing because they think they have to be so perfect and I added very very complicated topics, you know, many times I'm citing articles in PubMed and I have no medical degree or no medical qualifications whatsoever I'm often citing articles in JSTOR about 1800s history or random other things law articles But the key is that I just look at the abstract and I take away the key conclusions of that article And it doesn't actually require me to read the entire article because I'm faithfully adhering to the main point that the author made when they decided to represent something in the abstract or in the top of the of the article as the most important point and To do that you don't actually have to read the entire article You don't have to know it heart by heart. You just have to know what the main point is what the most key takeaways are and that's kind of what we I think we saw here like we were constantly thinking What's actually really really interesting about this thing and what are the things that are like? Oh, this is like a minor point. We shouldn't talk about this and what's like really really gives us like this whole article Like heart what makes it interesting? So I'm just looking at the clock for the first time in a while and seeing we're right at 830. I Was hoping that we'd still have some time to just like snack and chat Informally at the end are we like can we go over a few minutes or do we really need to clear out? Okay, so I'm gonna suggest that we call it so that we can yeah, so we can I mean I'd love to hear more about this myself, but other people might have other things to talk about You should call it snack chat all right on to the snack jack. Thanks for playing along