 Jess Phillips will probably be most familiar to our audience from her disastrous and cringe worthy campaign to be Labour leader last year. But when she isn't spending her time being an MP with crap politics and going on television to shout at socialist MPs, she is also an author. She's written three books in the past four years. They're called Every Woman, One Woman's Truth About Speaking the Truth, including lying about swearing to Diane Aber, the woman who was subject to the most abuse of anyone in Parliament. She's also written Truth to Power, Seven Ways to Call Time on BS, presumably by getting pretty close relationships with Rupert Murdoch's various outlets. And also everything you need to know about politics, my life as an MP. That's the new book. I think the title is actually quite apt. Everything you need to know about politics, my life as an MP. Me, me, me. Her upcoming book is, as you can tell, if you can count, the third to be released in four years. The Times and Sunday Times have given many a long sympathetic interview to Jess Phillips, enabling her to speak Truth to Power, presumably that's what they're interested in. She has given them another. This is the fifth in the last two years. And as you'd expect, all manner of topics came up, including Navarra media. We speak days before the vicious battalion spend by election amid momentum, activists demanding Starmer resign as leader if Labour loses. It retains the seat by a squeaky 323 votes. Phillips believes the hard left Stoke George Galloway's campaign with its crude appeals to Muslim voters and was gleeful about the prospect of Labour losing. But they would make the same charge about me, wouldn't they, under the Corbyn years? She compares activist journalist Owen Jones and Navarra media writers to noisy, overexcited children who have had too much sugar. Who cares what they think, frankly? Wow. Ash, we are overexcited children who have had too much sugar. Do you accept that analysis? I've actually been trying to cut sugar out of my diet, but I don't know about you. But I suppose she was getting at something else. Respond to Jess Phillips. Look, oh, that is true. I'm an excitable person. I'm a happy bouncy person. So sue me. That's what I like about you, Michael. It's what I like about Aaron. It's what I like about everyone that we work with, is that we're actually really passionate about what it is we do. And we also find meaning in politics and the principles that we stand for. We don't go around like Keir Starmer does or various members of the Labour front bench where the only message they take around the country is we're shit and we know we are. Don't vote for us, but please vote for us. But we understand that if you don't vote for us, it's because we're dreadful. We're absolutely beyond salvaging. But also if you don't vote for us and you're brown, that means like you're anti-Semitic and you're homophobic. We, I think, try and make a positive case for our politics as well as on this show being critical and skeptical of received wisdoms and the kinds of propaganda that you see in establishment media. I'm really comfortable with Jess Phillips looking at all the things we do and going, I don't like that. Because, guess what, Jess, the reason why Navarra media exists is because politicians like you on the Labour right have absolutely failed people in this country for decades now, right? You weren't speaking to people's material needs. You certainly weren't speaking to a lot of people's social values. And I'm afraid that when people look at that wing of the party, what they see is a set of politicians who are venal, who are self-serving, and who also don't have any backbone. And you look at, I'm afraid, Jess Phillips herself. She markets herself as, you know, I am resilient. I'm tough. I'm a straight talker when she was standing for Labour leader. She threw in the towel after the first round. She couldn't take the heat. Now, that wasn't because, you know, the left were mounting a particularly spirited campaign. I didn't think that was going on when faced with really the mildest, you know, kind of observation and questioning she crumbled. So we might be overexcited. We might be noisy, but at least we tough it out. At least we will be people of our word. You know, we'll say that we are here to hold the government to account and also be critical of the Labour Party, where they are deserving of that criticism. And we'll stick to the thing that we say we'll do. It's not as if the first time Navarra Media came under any scrutiny or hostility or, you know, antagonism that we were like, oh, God, this seems pretty hard. You know, I liked it when I was in my little echo chamber of, you know, blue tick journalists and friendly times, you know, profile writers that I'm going to crawl back into there. No, we didn't do that. So I'm perfectly comfortable with Jess Phillips not liking us. I've just been pondering the title of her new book, everything. I know I mentioned it in the intro, but it's just everything you really need to know about politics, my life as an MP, like how obnoxious and arrogant can you be? It's like, it's like, I wrote about everything you need to know about YouTube, my life hosting a very particular left wing politics show. Does she really just think politics can be summarised by her life? You know, it's, it's, it's amazing. And especially as when, when people are actually asked, what do you believe? She had nothing to say at all. So politics for her is just what she does, what her plans are tomorrow, and it doesn't have any meaning beyond that. So here's the thing about Jess Phillips. Like I've spent a lot of time, like slacking her off just now. And she is, I think, a very capable and able self promoter, a very ruthlessly capable self promoter. And what I think she's worked out, as well as I think some other Labour MPs, is that you can try and build outwards, right? You can build outwards by taking people along with you by talking to people who really disagree with you and saying, here's what I can offer you. Here's what we, this movement, this party project can offer you. Or what you can do is kind of cultivate very chummy relationships with people who exist within this very incestuous little circle of, you know, Murdoch journalists and, you know, Bluetick commentators on Twitter. I know I am one, but I'm the cool kind, like a regular Bluetick. I'm like a cool Bluetick, you know, kind of cultivating, I think, quite a slavish audience and saying, those are the people that I'm going to picture. And because she's, you know, in a relatively safe Labour seat, it doesn't really matter that she's not doing that work of saying, well, here is how a Labour government is actually going to better your life. Essentially, what, you know, what she can do is go, you know, here's the work I'm going to do as a constituency MP, that's fine. And then the rest of the time, it's going to be all about profile building, all about making sure that I am in the news, that I am, you know, consistently being framed as like, you know, almost the Queen over the water, like, you know, well, why can't they get that straight talking Jess Phillips in? You know, that's a great shtick. But like I said, it's not something which stands up to actual pressure, right? She had the opportunity to run for Labour leader, she bottled it. And so she's gone back to doing what she does best, which is write a book with me, myself and I, the Jess Phillips story in the title, and, you know, pitch herself as, you know, the kind of sensible, moderate, as opposed to the kind of loony, infantile, childish, nasty left to the times. I mean, it's a great grift. It's a living, you know, are you going to begrudge her a living? Kiss Tharmus said that he was all about jobs, jobs, jobs. This is hers. Which you already got one. She's an MP and she gets paid quite a lot to represent her constituents, which was my constituents, my constituencies, my constituents that you've written three books in four years.