 Barring any last-minute change, a former Governor of Plattus State Senator Joshua Dariye may run for senatorial seat on the platform of the Labour Party. Dariye, former Terabba Governor and Governor Jolli Nyami and three others were on Monday released from prison three months after they were pardoned by the Council of State led by President Mahmoud Buhari on April 14, 2022. The Plattus State Chapter of the Party has reportedly concluded arrangements to receive the former Governor from Abuja to pick the party's senatorial form. While joining us to discuss this scenario is Tunji Abdulamid, he's a legal practitioner and catch Ono Nuju, he's a political scientist. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you very many. Tunji, it's just a few days ago that we talked about the release of this gentleman and some of the, you know, pundits, political pundits, and analysts saying or making certain speculations that there might have been a political underturn as to why now. Why did Mr. President choose now to release this man as opposed to any other time? He could have done this when he finally steps out of office. But now that we're hearing these speculations, what are your thoughts in the first place? This is a man that has had been charged for taking billions from the coffers of his state and of course funneling it through some other places. Should we be worried? We should be worried. We should be. Because we will talk about we are fighting corruption, especially these APC governments that came into power on the mantra of a fight against corruption and doing this kind of a thing. See that what you see? When you, it appears in Nigeria, not even appearing. In Nigeria we have enforcement of law in Nigeria. It depends on your level. If you are PIP or VIP or drug ordinary in Nigeria, the way the law will be enforced against, it will be different from the way it will be enforced against any other person. There are so many people who are who are being jailed and who deserve to be given a pardon that they are not considered at all. You see, let's get it right. Yes, the president does not have the power to grant a pardon to Karee. Yes, he has the power. Is Karee qualified to be pardoned as fast as he can? No. Because if you are giving somebody a pardon, if you are giving Karee a pardon, other people who are qualified or if you are more qualified than him are also in prison. They are there. They are not committed. They do not even affect people. The allegation against Nigeria at that time was 2.7 billion error and which was alleged to have to be government, between 2007 and 2009 or so. I can't remember the year it was stopped now. So now a government is saying it's fighting corruption. Now grant a pardon. After a series of, if you remember, the case against Nigeria started in 2007 by 50 governments and it was convicted in 2018. Now we have decided a pardon. I imagine the kind of neighborhood the prosecutor are putting into it, the financers are putting into the prosecution and all the stress and then they did a pardon. So in other words, after some time it appears the government is fighting corruption. It's encouraging corruption because people will not believe that we want to have the money, we want to have the plan. I can commit crime. Now go free and that's what we are seeing today now. Because remember, I'm not saying that you have to contest a election after him pardon. It's still like that. Actually today, he has never committed a pardon. That's the pardon he has been given to him. He has never even been tried in court or conflicted. And that is the answer to the pardon. It's not the first time. About a thousand years the former president of Nigeria was also feeling pardoned for him to contest for the 2019 election. So it's not been a surprise for me even that he had been released from the prison and tried to contest for that election. Do you remember also though he was not convicted, he was just in custody, at that time he contested an election and he won from custody. That is the current Secretary General of the APC, Mr. Amituri. He contested at that time while in custody and in one election. So it's not new to me that this is a bad, it is a bad, this kind of thing is bad for our system. In other words, rather than fight corruption, it appears we are encouraging, the government is encouraging corruption. Because you see, when you see people who are in top position, whenever they commit crime, the way I manage their position will be done. To be different from those who are not, the majority, the way I manage it will be constituted. You will see the speed in which nobody will be taken to prison and then the way they will be beaten and then they will be detained after being convicted. But the PIP and CPIPs will see the way they will be treated and then few hours or few months later they will hear that they will be pardoned. You can see the promise of the oath, that is the oath used on Kalu. I can't remember the name of the state again now. It was also the same thing. So it was not pardoned that he was imprisoned on court based on the technical error from the prosecution. The way Abmana was doing things in the leader was not encouraging anybody to treat it. We are encouraging them and it starts for me and of course, that's the situation. I'm wondering to myself because you said that this is how things are being done in the country. And for a government that promised that they were going to change things, this is what was seeing happen. But then can we only just point fingers at the political class for what's happening? Again, because I've had conversations where people have said, well, we have the Shiite leader and his wife still in custody, couldn't the president have pardoned them? We have other people who are still in custody, who did not steal, by the way, steal monies from the coffers of Nigerians, who did not take food out of the mouth of Nigerians, who did not in any way hurt Nigerians, but they're still in custody. Yet people who stole from our Commonwealth are being pardoned. But then, we the people, what have we done, aside from grumble, if it looks like we really never do anything, why can't the cycle continue even after this government? We are also even a part of the problem because, you see, this chief derigui from the prison now, I tell you, you won't be surprised. It will contest under a party, and it will win elections. And that is social, that the people, the kind of leader they choose. So, you know what, we are also correcting this situation. Don't force again, Nigeria. The moral team, we are, we are, it's no longer there. We don't focus on the competence of capacity. We don't focus on whether or not this one has been tested and has been found to be, whether or not they have been pardoned. The point is that it was tried for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for being a corrupt and it was found guilty. So, that is, that is there. You can erase that one. Even though you can say that you're pardoned, there is, it's there. It shows that clearly that it was found guilty of being a corrupt person. So, as far as I'm concerned, even if it's, if it's pardoned, that will not erase that far. And I will not be surprised again if you progress elections and win elections, because that is the thing of what we are in Nigeria. It's not about who can do the job, who is clean, who is clean like that. The who, that person that has the money, who can give us what we did in another way, immediate need. One one Naira, one Naira, one Naira, one Naira. That's what people need now. So, because if people, if people believe that, look, what I get now is what is my home. So, let me just send them, collect what I want to collect, vote for them, and then go and relax and wait for another four years. That's what we have. So, I, I, I PC us in Nigeria, because the masses too are not even, I think they matter. We are not at all. Even as much as those implementers are guilty, the masses are also not guilty in that, in that, in that aspect. We are also not. What must we do? What must we do? What must we do? Because it's okay. It's all fair and well if we say, oh, the masses are not helping. But what must we do for these so-called leaders to take us seriously? Because again, I would only take you for a ride if I know that you, you only can huff and puff and do nothing. So again, what must the average Nigerian do? What must the, what must we as citizens of the federal republic do that can make sure that our leaders are accountable and not just accountable, but know that there is no loophole, no way for them to wiggle back into office if they have been known and tried even convicted as treasury looters? Yeah, you have given the answer. What we need to do is make sure that people who have been said to be corrupt or those who have been given opportunity and have been, have been, have been, have been fined. One thing, one way or the other, not be given any opportunity again to do anything. There's not that, that's not the case in Nigeria. So if as long as you continue to give them opportunity, they continue to rob us of, rob us of. But, but, Tungi, I'm sorry to talk over you, Tungi. Yes, yes, make it sound like we give them the opportunity. I just had a conversation with a group of people from civil society. And again, it's the political party. In fact, I'm going to ask why Labour Party in the first instance, why not the APC? He belonged to a party before he, you know, he was convicted. But again, it's not the Nigerians per se. I know that the people who are in political parties are Nigerians, but you make it sound like we're the ones who say yes, come and run for this office. It's the political parties that give them a nod, isn't it? No, the political party in Nigeria, we don't work in Nigeria, a party. You can see the party is not, if Labour Party is not now, Nigeria to be part of their, of their, of their, of their, of their platform. It means that the political party is not one piece because we have been told that the, the federal kind of Labour Party and those in Labour Party are, are different from those who are the people who have been seen before. And that's what I'm talking about. Although, and I'll make the Nigeria, you know, extreme Nigeria, who are coming to, going to Dresat, they still know. If you want election for Labour Party, it's not. Probably that's why it went back to the political party, it was Labour Party before going to prison. So it probably has a lot of reasons. But look at what's standing now that they were, were being told that Labour Party is not, is now being run by people with, with only civil people can deliver for us. And if they are, if they are lying in, is so the kind of party they have to, they have to. They have to also be represented in real election, not about who can do the good people. So it shows that people with that kind of global party becomes a president. Because of people who we have complained of before, we seem to send out certain types of people that have run our IPA. So what has changed? To a certain extent, the people also say look, no to these people. If you don't say no to them, there's no way they will not win. So if you bring a candidate from that integrity that is in complaint, people should come out and say no. We don't want to help people. They have been seen as people with integrity. I sent them to come out and say no, you cannot give this man ticket because it will rub off on our part. I sent them to do that. Because if they don't do that, I will not see them as people with integrity. We're being joined by Katch Anunaju. Let's see if we can hear him. Now, Katch, if you can hear us, what grounds should, if this be a reality for the Labour Party, what grounds would this man be running for office? I mean, again, I just said he's been tried. He's been jailed as a treasury looter. I'm imagining to myself what he'll be telling the people he's combating votes from that he wants to do for them. Thank you very much. You have to look at the issue aids him being being granted pardon. If being granted pardon also means that the issues of his conviction should be looked away, then the law should be allowed to take its place. If he however is barred by law, then I think the law probably will be also implemented. We've not seen quite a lot of things about the elections coming from the new electoral act. So I believe what it is, we have to look into the electoral act and see if there are any issues that undermines the positions of someone who's been giving clemency and in this case, executive pardon by the President. So I think that's where we should look at it from. Apart from that, I believe that the law should be allowed to take its natural course. If it's been pardoned, it's been pardoned. It's a citizen being qualified. If the law is against it, according to the electoral act, you then execute the law. If the law is not against it, there is not anybody can do about it. Dr. Kaccha telling me that the political parties have no problem whatsoever. And just as he said, he said that if any political party were to even open its doors to him, it would one way or the other, in his words, tarnish the image of that political party. I mean, it's one thing for him to get the ticket. It's another for him to tell you and I or convince you and I that he wants to run and we should vote for him. So that's a different case. But you're saying that if the President has pardoned this man, we should forget that billions of our monies were taken by this man and still unaccounted for. Well, wherever it is, you need to understand that we're society governed by the rule of law. The law has to be applied. If there are any issues in regards to clemency, it does not qualify due to the clemency, then it could be stopped. But if not, I don't see anything. There are those who are not convicted, but they have done worse things against the state of Nigeria. There are politicians today who are running elections who are actively promoting terrorism, which is known to me and you. And so I don't really think you should see him in that very bad light. Those who are busy undermining national security stand in the worst state than he does. So I don't really see a problem with that. And want to look at every issue on their own merit. If Dariyeh and Mr. Nyami are barred from contesting due to the positions of the Electoral Act, then the law should be implemented and executed. If they are not touched by that, and the clemency means all your sins are washed away, as Minister Oshomole will say, then it should be applied to him being a citizen. Finally, let's look at the trajectory of Nigerians and, of course, how we're getting ready for 2023. Do you see Nigerians standing their grounds against whatever it is? And it's not just a Dariyeh situation, because you made mention of people who might be running for offices in this next election who are supposed sponsors of terrorism. People who are also treasury looters, people who have done worse things. Now, I did put out a tweet today about not just listening to what a person says, but looking at their antecedents. Do you think that we as Nigerians are taking into consideration all of these things, or are we going to be again taken by the sweet tongue or the sweet mouth of politicians? Well, I will say something is afoot in that country. There seems to be a sociological spring. The young people are moving forward to take charge because they are very disappointed in the way some old people have fraudulently engaged the system. I think Nigerians will be very assertive going forward. It's no more the Nigeria of the past now. The girl is now up to 28. She is now a monster, not a little daddy's girl. Nigerians will not be told what to do anymore, as you can already see on the social media. They are very upfront. They are taking charge of the ballot revolution. I don't think anybody or any set of old people will be able to put out the young in terms of where they are going to. I see strong social changes. I see a historical ballot revolution. I don't see anybody able to stop the young people in regards of where they are going. There is enough awareness for us to take the necessary actions. Tunji, finally, do you agree with Katra Nuju on the fact that there is a revolution coming? Or is this revolution just noise and probably just fire that may burn out soon, being that you know? We've seen these kinds of revolutions die down before elections and then we see the same thing happen again. How certain are you that this fire would hold till 2023? Yeah, I think I don't... I didn't hear your questions very well. I believe you are talking about the issue of whether or not we should continue this way or not. Legally speaking, that the year is qualified to contest elections. Legally speaking, anybody in effect are qualified to contest elections. The lowest thing is that that will not be... We must speak well of all, particularly this government of APC, the government of President Mehmet Gowali, who is talking about fighting against corruption. Giving such people what's it called, pardon. And the next thing we hear is that he wants to contest elections again. I think we need to change our law. So look, once you are competent, even if you are giving pardon, you must stop 10 years or so here for people to see you that you are now a different person. Before you can even say, I want to hold public office. But how do you prove that you are a changed person if you are not serving? People will see it from your attitude. People will see it from you. I could pretend. I could pretend. They will see you and they will know you. Although unfortunately in Nigeria, people are electorate. They don't vote based on your character. They don't vote based on your ability. They don't vote based on your capacity. They vote based on what you are. Do you have the finance? Do you have the money? Do they want to get something from you? Are you a Muslim or a Christian? Are you a Pula Nio or Yoruba or a Uta? That is the base of all which we coach in this country. And I don't see that one change in 2200 to 2300. We are still running the issue of the mutual sentiments. What's it called? Ethnic sentiment and political sentiment. Whether or not you have the capacity or you don't have the capacity. I think I repeat it again. I think it is for us to change our law. So look, if you want to have convicted, if you are giving pardon, you must stop 10 years before you can hold something. People will now see that. Whether you are guilty or not, it is confirmed to be a corrupt place. Even though you have been given pardon. So that is the fact that you were convicted. He was convicted of a corrupt allegation. Okay. Because we do not have time, we have to wrap things up. Do you want to quickly put a word in before we go? Yes. I will want to say that at the end of the day, it is the local people in the local areas that will have the final say in regards to who should be voted for or who should not be voted for. As I said earlier, the gentleman has not committed half the offence of a lot of those we know are conniving with Bororo terrorists to slaughter Nigerians in an ethnic fashion to actually gain their ancestral lands. So I don't see those issues as serious as the ones that I accuse those who are currently involved in prisoner offenses against the states. I don't remember, I'm really not worried. I think Mr. Daria is welcome to tell the law if he has gone against the law, if the clemency by the president does not call back, wiping the way his oath says, then the law should be implemented and he should be barred. If not that, he has not done half the things of those that we know who are running for elections today. We have to go. Thank you so much. Sunji Abdulameed is a legal practitioner. Cach O'Nanajou is a political scientist. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being part of the conversation. Thank you very much. All right. Well, before I go, I just want to give you a quick word. This is a take. I did say earlier on in the show anybody can write a statement. Anybody can put together a manifesto. Sometimes these politicians can't even read the manifesto. They just, they don't even know what it means. They don't know how heavy those words are. They just read it because it makes them look good. Why? Because they pay people to help them write these manifestos so that they can convince you. So don't just take them at their word because sometimes what is their word was. It's time for us to start digging, start finding out who these people really are. Look at the antecedents. Find out what they've done while they were serving in their own little way. Are they fit to get your vote? Then if the answer is yes, give them your vote. If the answer is no, please do not because the truth is, we're all going to live with the consequences. So if you don't have your PVC, I'm sorry, you have no right to complain. I'm Mary Anacorn. Thank you for watching.