 So, so welcome to today's session on Corus Monnets. I think to some extent, this session today is meant to give a job. The two course sessions we did this way up in the season of Monnets. So, there was no session set up very compact. And what we have is the real thing today. First of all, painting, what is the current state of play regarding movement across the Paris area and country communities in this season. We've talked a lot about this today. What are the emerging trends in terms of finance in the region? What are we seeing? And also, what is the framework of governments and public sector, very close to engagement on finance in Corus and red? So, the morning will be speaking to basically the four sessions. The first session which my son is going to talk to, talk with three of us, he's making a collaboration with the process actors. We'll have a short break and then we'll be looking at what is like the uses of innovative finance tools for particular Corus. We'll then be looking at the next section, what are some of the pathways in which we can scale up the public sector in terms of engagement in Corus. And then finally, we'll have some conclusions in the last 30 minutes or so. So, one of the things that's very important is we've asked them to be very short and sharp in their presentations so that we can then have precious audience and the moderator for the session will actually come off the stage and walk around the room to try to get you to engagement. So, please, I do encourage you very much. This is meant to be specifically for the table. Interactive session, if you've got ideas or thoughts, please don't hesitate to come forward. So, on that basis, I'll hand over to Marcel to kick off the first session. Thank you very much. And welcome everybody. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. So, we're going to have a look at who the key players are in the private sector that invest in Red Plus and what actually drives them to invest in the forest landscapes in Red Plus projects. We're also going to look at the experience of the private sector and what kind of risks they are looking at, what kind of risks they're facing and the kind of returns that they are looking for. So, I'm not going to give the presentation on myself, but we've got four very distinguished panel members here from the government Ibuami and from the investors, you can say, Bicam and Juan and I have Ida Greenberry from the round table from the private sector round table and the Asia Pacific Rainforest partnership. So, I think I can start with Bicam to kick the session off with a brief presentation dealing with these two questions. One, key private sector actors in Red Plus what drives them, what are the experiences today and what are the returns that they are looking for and the risks that they are facing. Hi, I'm Ibuami Ibuami. My name is Bicram Chowdhury. I'm here on this panel as I guess top of my experience as a private investor. What we do is we are in the business of connecting the so-called impact investment space into investment opportunities across the world and prior to this, you know, I headed up the impact investing practice in credit Swiss which is obviously a large Swiss bank and at the forefront of, you know, a large number of initiatives in the impact investment space. So my investment experience, you know, extends kind of all the way from all the professional investors what we in the business call real money all the way down to, you know, private individuals and family officers who tend to be, you know, private banking clients who also have 14 basic investment. And well, in that respect, I have, I guess, you know, a bit of, you know, let's call it good news and bad news. The good news is that, you know, there is still a lot of, I think, a lot of scope or potential for, you know, red glass or even forest conservation to be an investable asset class. And I guess the bad news, if you were, is that there are a number of assets in the impact investing space that compete for that investment goal of theme-based investing. So what, and when I look at this space, I, you know, again, first of all, putting on my large institution hat, you know, having been in a financial institution for the best part of my career, one of the, you know, one of the striking aspects of this, for example, this conference and, you know, a number of forums that people speak about conservation and conservation finance or green finance is, one, the lack of, I would say, private sector participation, which I think was pointed out yesterday by a number of people. And secondly, and to me, the more glaring commission is the lack of financial institution participation. And in other words, the banks, you know, and obviously there are a number of, you know, what have gone national, you know, investors, but in terms of the financial institutions that typically would invest, for example, in an asset class to bring it to scale, you know, finance, debt, finance, you know, mezzanine, and sometimes in finance equity. Today, that dialogue, you know, is definitely lacking. And I think there is a strong need at the policy level to work together, you know, especially at the national level, to work together with the leagues in the banking supervision space at the respective jurisdictional levels. You know, banks are, you know, banks and financial institutions, for those of you who know it, it's taking the obvious. They are highly regulated institutions. And the regulatory framework that, you know, encompasses banks and employees to a certain extent drives their commercial choices. So there's an interesting initiative on, for example, the European Union to be able to provide guidelines around green finance and the number of the, you know, aspects that they're talking about are as simple as providing capital concessions for investing in conservation projects and also asking banks to recognize environmental liabilities for lending to non-environmental projects, the concept of environmental liability, right? These are still, you know, the working group rates. But, you know, this is an overview. You know, I think there are a number of things to be done here. And again, you know, to those who are in the policy-making, you know, areas of the, you know, of the space, I'd really urge you to form coalitions specifically with, you know, for example, your Ministry of Finance and your banking regulators in the respective jurisdictions to understand how you can move it forward in tandem, you know, with me, financial partners. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's a positive hike to who I am. That's from my other investment side, the public investment side, the GCF. What is your take on this? Who are actually the key actors who you would be servicing as GCF? How does the private sector come into that? And how are you using GCF only, actually, to de-risk their enterprise? Thank you very much. I'm Marcel for the introduction and thank you everyone for being here in this session. So the GCF is in an early stage. Actually, this presentation is for the later session. We will have a dance. So I will not talk much about this presentation, but in general, GCF is still in an early stage of engaging with private sector in the policy-making sector. We have some already approved projects that are working mostly in the country, but private sector, and with the aim of reducing emissions from deforestation, is still an ongoing work that we have with some entities that are our partners, our great entities to the party. So what we are doing internally is developing some potential guidance that's requested by the GCF board. In the next, the following board meeting in October, there will be a board document on how the GCF could engage with the private sector. This document, what we did is to analyze who are the actors that we're talking to. When we talk about private sector, we need to start identifying who they are. If we look at the value chain in the forest management sector, we have producers, buyers, financial institutions, service buyers. They are all private sector. If we want to engage with the private sector, we have different kinds of instruments and and extractors that will be suitable for these different actors. For example, if we talk to a farmer, there needs to be as a private sector actor, we need to, as a GCF, we can support them in order to build their capacities to engage in larger deals, like other associations, for example. If we want to engage in a value chain of coffee, it's for having an impact that we're expecting to have as a GCF. We need to work with an association of farmers working with coffee and not with the individual themselves directly. So, in all this change, we are going to develop different instruments for when we do the private sector now. When we're already starting to talk with some investors, and there is indeed to note very well red glasses is still something that has been already for many years under discussion but at the scale that is needed is just starting in the recent years. We want to have red glasses at the scale of the national and subnational levels that trigger this pilot shift that we call in the GCF. We need to have significant investment by the sector. But if we talk only about red glasses, the experience that we have with the project level and what happened was that there was no demand for what red glasses was producing. So there was no incentive for the sector. But we're discussing now our potential structures on how to reduce those market risks that are perceived at the moment for the private sector if they want to engage in red glasses. Now, red glasses is not only about the credits or emission reduction that are generated. It's also about the changes of the commodities that in principle are the drivers of forestation but how do we turn them into zero deforestation by the change. And that's an area that we're also trying to work in more detail this year. How we need to understand from the private sector what actually prevents them to have zero deforestation by the change. Where are the vital things? Many companies have ledges of deforestation by the change but according to recent reports they are not going to meet their commitments by 2020 as they were promising in the New York Regional Forest for some reason. But what actually is happening? Why is not that materialized? So there are many additional elements that are not purely private sector reducing risk but it's also in every condition the need to happen in the future. I'm very happy to discuss the deforestation and have made a presentation on that and it will be great to answer any of your questions. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Juan. So from the investment side we now have a picture of actually a lack of involvement of private sector with the lack of financial institutions that are involved in the deforestation they need to be engaged and from the public finance side there is a need to identify the need to produce into collaborators for deforestation maybe either investment in restoration how do you do that how do you incentivize that? I think there is a goal here for the private sector to take initiative itself as a key role for government to identify the reason what would drive private sector to invest in the most proactive engagement in this what do they need to help them actually to do this in such a way that it also provides a return and what kind of returns are they that's why I think it's a perfect introduction I have some presentations to present while talking for 5 minutes and I don't like putting my back on the presentation can you play the presentation please thank you so my name is Aida Greenberg I'm working as a chair in the private sector role to ensure I should also be ready for deforestation for 2 years let's just start by presenting some facts I think you haven't touched this before and as you can see from the screen the cost let's talk about the cost of deforestation in the tropics it's a forestry and agricultural industry for at least two-thirds of the deforestation globally and 447 global companies made public comments to address the treatment of deforestation other questions about whether they can complete their commitment or implement it probably not global grid has a destination for agriculture and forestry it's about 24% and tropical deforestation accounts for about 15% of the world's global warming pollution meanwhile according to Woodsville research 500 million hectares of tropical forest if we are to meet Paris agreement of staying under 1.5 degrees so these are the facts of their ground information next slide and let's see what the private sector is doing the last 8 years we have seen a transformation in the global commodity supply chain towards breakable deforestation there's now a broad global agreement between companies research institutions and environmental NGOs governments and forest dependent communities that tropical deforestation need to be stopped for many years they have been committed to the protection of high conservation forest as ACVs however secondary forests that provide essential carbon storage have been done by deforestation forest with basically what deforestation means were not protected back then in 2011 so next a forest conservation initiative was born in 2011 the initiative many river and sky carbon stock prices created a global methodology for land use planning that is to distinguish forest from its areas for protection from degraded lands with low carbon and biodiversity values that may be developed if you go to the next slide so why the approach, why the high carbon stock approach first is practical methodology based on later science in my previous role as the managing director of the Asian public and group I've seen with my own eyes how practical cause can be prevented on the ground and second is now an integrated process is an integrated process between high carbon stock approach and high conservation value protection and implementation of equity so instead of doing multi-assessments in a concessions or in ecosystem restoration areas whatever you only just do one assessment to ensure that biodiversity and high carbon stock and community rights are protected and thirdly is adaptive is evolving expanding horizon is expanding to different communities and different regions right now and also is scientifically always evolving this is the latest science in forest conservation but most importantly it has multi-stakeholder governance and oversight of the methodology the members of the high carbon stock are consisting of conservation organizations scientists producers technical experts so the decisions that we reach inside the initiative is based on consensus level from this multi-stakeholders next please so the methodology to implement zero deforestation is already there but how much does it actually cost so based on my own experience and several benchmark studies in the tropics forest conservation costs about 20 to 100 dollars depending on the region and level of threats and for a full restoration is about 1,000 to 2,000 dollars depending on the soil condition this excludes the opportunity cost and currently the responsibility for conserving and protecting these areas is largely within the producer country and the associated organizations and communities we must also remember that forest conservation does not recognize boundaries that means that each concessions can just implement this methodology themselves without looking at the full landscape and this is thankfully supported by the government of Indonesia with the issuance of the DG regulations on high conservation values areas of high carbon stock price that was issued in 2017 so the instrument by the government thankfully is already there to help us to achieve that and what is missing on this list is basically the consumer good manufacturers branch, retailers and buyers what they do to conserve forest what have they done probably just 1 or 2 million dollars as part of the CSR is typically not enough to conserve forest in the tropics where a lot of these brands and good manufacturers and brands, retailers actually make a huge profit in the last century from the tropics next slide please forest conservation and finance require enabling conditions and necessary instruments we are very, very happy that the government has issued government regulation number 46 basically a government on economic instruments in environmental matters where national balance sheet for natural capital and also in environmental funding mechanism have been recognised and also part of the regulations as a next step to move forward to achieve our goal next slide but we must also not forget the fiscal transfer mechanism which some say has been proven positive in India it receives 1% of their forest cover and Indonesia also want to have to look at the same thing next slide please in December 2017 Indonesia government and Ministry of Finance has issued ministry regulations number 230 where it regulates implementation of fiscal transfer it's still being rolled out so the implementation is not yet consistent throughout the nation probably this is where we need to help the government to implement this properly in summary we need the following partners to collaborate in forest conservation and finance with clear roles and responsibilities from private centres we have two types producers and users producers they need to protect their own forest and address the legacy of deforestation in the past in their own concessions for users they need to start addressing their deforestation footprint in the past and also support forest conservation in their supply chain and the surrounding landscapes it is very important that we need an uncomfortable zero deforestation or no deforestation some people call it no deforestation no exploitation platform to link between supply chain to the forest through direct intervention at a community level and to collaborate with partners in landscape to achieve a nested ecosystem approach the key principles of this platform that probably need to be established because I have not yet seen any platform exists until now is basically it need to be credible artistic order three of confidence of interest achieving performance and results on the ground equitable sharing of forest and support the government commitments to deforestation reduction and NEC so it is very important to declare equalcy with government as well the government of course has established their instrument to allocate a national budget for physical transfer for example and then of course by working with Fagan for ecosystem services after all forest conservation is a good responsibility so this shows that there is a lot of a lot of private sector interact to engage they are already platform established to engage to set joint targets there is a lot of collaboration between producers with the lack of involvement of downstream industry but still the results so far is only 50% of industry is engaged the other 50% continue the business as usual and that means the continuation of deforestation with in a more level playing field so where these industries might actually get more profits than the industry that is trying to do responsible business so it clearly is a role for another key stakeholder in the government I would like to ask Ibrahim to give us an overview of how the government sees this playing field of industry and what are you doing as government to incentivize the actors and to de-risk the entrepreneurs that are daring enough to take a role in achieving the policy of the government so thank you and first of all I would like to thank the organizer for having me here at this very important timely important sessions as a timely important because the regime of finance would play a very significant role and should play a more active role in responding to the current environmental challenges I have three slides to help me in describing the role of government to change this context in modifying various stakeholders in moving toward the sustainable financing to the environment may I have my presentation please just not my presentations okay can I have the right one please because I only have one I don't understand the false one by the way Ibu Aida has mentioned the government regulation number 46 2017 indeed the government regulation is one of the initiative a policy initiative has been done by government of Indonesia by the way my name is Laxmi and I'll be my nickname so please call me Laxmi we start our environmental protection and management act back in 1982 and we renewed the act on 1987 but again in 2009 we have a new act on environmental protection and management but based on the past experiences there was not only a lack of awareness that facing by all the stakeholders indeed there is also lack of other instrument not only technical regulation but also economic instrument that's why back 10 years ago we thought that it is a must for government of Indonesia to draw a scheme or a complete picture of how government should incentivize and push the motivation all stakeholders so this is the offer view if you can see but basically we would like to push or to move all the many resources towards sustainable financing for the environment including the forest conservation and there are three big groups if I would explain to you the first group is this one is the group of well the orange one orange one is the group of set of incentive mechanisms set by the government the green one government need to also assist or to to to drive the creation of market towards sustainable financing and the third one it is also important how to have a better management a good governance and all this kind of economic instrument and there are these three groups are continue inspiring our government government officer to really put this idea into the regulation and then only last year after eight years of preparing the draft we finally come up with the new regulation, government regulation number 40 in year 2015 and we categorize the economic instrument call it economic instrument initially we would like to call it as market based instrument but then the government agreed to use economic instrument for this set of instrument so there are three categories instrument for planning basically to as corrective actions to internalize the externalities because we forgotten the externalities for decades so we need to internalize the externalities so it's kind of a corrective action to our development planning process and second groups instrument for financing in it financing is very important everybody talking about financing nowadays yesterday we heard how to finance and this is today we are talking about again finance, how to finance the forest protections activities and the third one is incentive so basically this instrument are not really only providing money or providing finance or making them easier way to do the business but the more important thing is to change the behaviors behavior of all the stakeholders we need to have a new type of behavior towards our development process so the behavior that lowering the greenhouse gas emission behavior to lowering the loss of biodiversity behavior to base our plan based on the carrying capacity of the ecosystem that kind of changing behavior that we would like to have by implementing this instrument so as a widely practice I could put those instrument in this charge so these regulations well you may argue that this regulation is too ambitious but honestly we don't have any other choice other than ambitious because we've been like so many things for decades so it is a time to collect our behavior to collect our policy to correct our way to do the business so we try to put all the the needs into a frame and the government regulation 48 2017 is really a regulatory framework this government regulation cannot be implemented as a single regulation it has to be followed by a sense of regulation standard and many many what you call it procedures guidelines and that kind of things and I could share with you that although it's only it's still less a year in our age but because we prepare this government regulation since back eight years ago so all the some guidelines then regulations are already there for example the OJCA financial services regulatory authority has been launched two important initiative policy one is on the sustainable financing second one is regarding the green board it's because of this regulatory framework and to better the financial financing initiative the one the economic for the ecosystems the government of Indonesia is not preparing a draft of presidential decree on establishing the MPU by the layanan umu it's the public service unit owned by government to manage the environmental farm more flexible include various of schemes various of type of instrument on environmental financing so I think by having said that I just like to underline that government of Indonesia and I believe other government as well it's a belief that we need to have all stakeholders on board to do toward the sustainable development especially in term of the forest conservation but as a policymaker government could play a very significant role in set the standard set the regulation to have everybody all the stakeholders will likely to to have in hand in doing a good effort toward the sustainable development policy thank you I think that's all my my share to this important discussion thank you very much frameworks put in place already by government now that would facilitate actually to for the instrument to be but at the moment it's still frameworks it's largely theory if I maybe with easiest how do we get it to actually operate what will it take rather than going back now myself with this question to the panel members I would like to open up the floor to you guys I'm sure you're very impatient you've seen that 50% of the industry is already active wanting to engage in this field and they're already engaging in this field but they need support they would need to be taken by government what are the steps that should be taken by private sector to actually take these frameworks that would be the steps by the government to take that forward, interact with our action I think that's what we're going to look at throughout the day but maybe we can get a feel for the ideas that are living in the crowd in the audience so who would question or make a comment in this regard yes please I'll start with first and I'll walk around I'm a private sector businessman I have 10 million dollars to invest in forests and I want my money to go towards maximum conservation of the forest tomorrow I want return of between 5 and 20% on my money I've reached over 10 years what do I do I'll take a few more questions before we start answering I can see I only see men I go from gender balance here but unfortunately yes because we never talked about technology specifically and I'm wondering where the costs are so if the funding is a generic issue of operation on the field and how technology is still an obstacle like the cost processes in this case thank you I have two questions oh yeah I might get this one from under us I have two questions actually the first is rather than giving more opportunities for private sector in its natural resource explorations we have to regulate that don't come directly because when you come directly to the field it will produce conflict with the local communities it is better to make a fair trade and give them to work more on any field rather than work directly on the field and then the second question is as our experience that when we have new regulation we take time to visualize the current regulation and we need no operational regulation that's how long we need time to get the real benefit from the government regulation number 46 2017 thank you if you have one more question in fact that most of the land are public lands or public purposes actually related to the private sector what kind of the equity the private sector is looking for do you need to privatize the whole public land to track your investment as it is from conservation direction let's answer these four questions ladies first please would you like to start so government first there's only one specific question to leave but allow me to also answer the open questions regarding analogy I'm sorry I only focus my presentation on fiscal and financial instrument because we're according to the TOR organization yes technology is still a challenge especially in Indonesia especially for the small and medium micro small and medium enterprises what government do in dealing with these challenges is we develop a set of another incentive for example we we develop the information full of technology information so then the SME could easily find a proper technology that may be a fit to their activities we also develop so-called environmental technology verification so for example this is very incentive for the technology developer they have a new technology and they they simply have to go to the certification body for example they can go to the office and then ask to facilitate they will explain their technology it's kind of their self declare so we develop the self declare environmental technology in to my knowledge other colleagues and other ministries for example, they also kind of incentive to lower the cost of technology again it is for the small and medium enterprises because the government the government resource is always not limited so we focus our effort to incentivize the micro small and medium enterprises the question regarding when likely there will be benefit for regulation number 46 2017 basically indeed it is a new regulation but if you if you go into the more various instrument there are a lot of instrument that has been there in the film for example the green GDP done by the local government payment for ecological services environmental they are already there there are only a limited new instrument promote by this regulation but other for other existing regulation this government regulation is basically to speed up and to improve the ongoing one so far we already implement the government regulation as it is the launch but only two instrument that takes according to the demand we only have two years to develop what is environmental performance deposit fund and we need to harmonize because nowadays it is of energy and mining resources already have that regulation other things already have that regulation we only have two years to do so but for the other instrument you may find the guidelines already you may find the information you may find the case of best practices of the instrument is already there so I believe and I'm sure that this government regulation is already ready before going to Buayda we have a question somebody was very impatient sitting there on 10 million dollars and not knowing how to actually get this operation life here in Indonesia so what the question is actually for what is the advice for this person what could he do with this 10 million in the current policy environment we don't have yet if the institution is already there you can put your money into that institution but I would rather suggest you to go to because as I mentioned about the initiative done by the OJGAU, Autoritas Jazakowana financial services authority they already have two innovative policy one is sustainable financing and the other one in green borne as we got to the sustainable financing since two years ago they already have the first bank they call it first movers that includes eight banks so you can go into the banks enjoy with the first movers of the OJGAU to invest your money apart of that you may also go to the we call it Klonkok Philanthropy Indonesia Indonesia Philanthropy Association go to that association and invest your money and they will put your money in proper ways who are what would the US VCF say to such an investor can you help them? to return the services that have monetized value are bases when you have different conserving forests we reduce the cost of drinking water to monetize services from forests in that way it's easy in some countries also under services there is a more traditional way of investing in conserving forests where you get returns now what we are looking into in some countries we have one proposal going to a group project where investing purely in conservation may not be as profitable as other potential investments you can get if you have an expected rate of return that is higher you may not invest purely in conservation so what we had in one project was a basket of different investments because conservation wasn't part of it so this is a fund that has created to invest in commodities that will deliver importation free products but also in conservation investments a mix of different investments will give the expected return or at least part of the investment but investing purely in conservation may not be sufficient unless there is a market that is willing to pay for all those services that the forests are providing again Karaman is something that we would discuss later in the course of the conference Thank you Gohan I go to Bikram because you have a whole crowd of investors behind you so are there best practices or ideas that you can put forward? Established or don't price in externally then unfortunately from an investment perspective a very theme based or cost based where investors trade off within their own risk return on a cost that suits them or that isn't that a piece of them versus the financial return that you are in and today in conservation I mean if you look at it as an asset not secured as the President said the return simply won't stack up unless in reality there is a variety of factors and then the absence of that market clearing mechanism what you have to do is you have to unfortunately be a bit of a pioneer and say that Thank you very much Bikram There are also a few options the willingness to take risks that maybe are beyond the normal kind of risks for entrepreneurs but then people either we can there is already a lot of activities that are meeting a lot of investment being made the NDB is a very active platform you are looking at various instruments to actually integrate conservation in business what would be your opinion perhaps a that's not all focus only on 10 million dollar question or what kind of policies would you like to see come up first to operationalize the NDB to help the industry to move forward I forgot to say thank you for the organisers people for arranging a gender balance for the for the for the for the for the private sector's point of view our priority right now is not about making money from cross-conservation is not basically insuring sustainable supply chain so that's probably producers and users point of view how can we concern for us as well infesting it in the forest to ensure that our supply chain will be sustainable the palm oil, the palm wood, the cofoil a lot of rubber and everything else will be sustainable so I'm not going to touch my attention at all and regarding the general questions about funding a questionable operation and implementation from the private sector's side we split the implementation and the operations into two the private sector's side and the community in the in the producers' country we split into two the producers and the community institutions and also experts I don't know if you think this is good on the monitoring side there's still such technology we have right now that can actually be 100% bulletproof so again ground clarification is always needed so the implementation team have to be strong enough and also we can also use the NGOs to to help monitor what's going on on the ground we get and what we need from the private sector in Marshall the instruments are really there thank you very much for the government we need more supporting regulations from other ministry supporting regulations from other ministry of finance, ministry of agriculture and others and also the enforcement side so these regulations need to be enforced to be implemented by stakeholders and producers okay so thank you very much our panel members I think we've come to the end of this session obviously we won't be able to answer all questions with all the issues but I hope this has given you a bit of an overview of what is out there in terms of questions in terms of issues the private sector is looking at issues and solutions that are being put in place by the government the frameworks that have been put in place both in the private sector side as well as the government side we're going to look further into this in the next sessions today so I hope you all stay and hope more people will join even going for a break now so I think we're eating already five minutes into the free trial I will keep it at this thank you very much for your attention and look forward to seeing you later