 Well, let's move on to something else, and that is defense now. Some of the, you know, big stories that we read this morning, one of them that of course is being spoken about across the whole country is a kidnap of, you know, 73. Some people say up to 100 students in the Zamfara state once again. Now, well, just to also quickly mention, the Minister of Defense is Bashar Magashi. I was right. I just didn't mention Magashi. But let's talk about Zamfara state. One time too many. It feels like clockwork. It feels like it happens every two weeks. Once they release a set, they take a new set. What would you say is going on with regards kidnapping in Nigeria? I think it's a very simple answer. And I think it's the collapse of internal security in our country. Internal policing has failed. And it's being on a downward spiral in the last 30 years. We haven't built a competent police force. We haven't built a security, an internal security architecture that gathers enough local intelligence. We haven't strengthened local governance across our country. And these are the consequences that we're now experiencing today, such that you can move hundreds of children across a hundred kilometers distance. And there is not going to be a red flag for many agencies to stop or apprehend them. That's a complete failure of internal security architecture. And that is the real problem that we're experiencing in this country. These criminals have now seen that we're extremely vulnerable, especially in the Netherlands, in areas that are close to the forest and in villages across the fringes between Zamfara, Katina, Kaduna, and many of these communities that bother forest and other countries. So it's a complete failure of internal security. We have not patrolled our borders effectively. We have not trained and retrained our servicemen effectively. And fundamentally, local governance has broken down completely. So you have local government chairmen who have no grip of their local governments because they are appointed as cronies by governors and have not been elected by people within that communities. And so they do not have legitimacy to govern. Of course, many of their resources are also used by the governor and very few is left for them to actually administer. And so that breakdown of governance has led to a lot of... I mean, you go to many of these villages in Zamfara. There's little or no police presence in many of those places. The access roads are completely broken down. No hospitals, no schools. They are left... I refer to them as abandoned communities that are completely left behind. You will think you're not in Nigeria when you go to many of these places. And so crime has continued to soar. And the fundamental thing that has happened to kidnapping in our country, however sad it is, is that for every time we flash on our TV screens that 20 children have been kidnapped and around some of millions of men have been paid, what we are doing without knowing is that we are advertising the creativeness of the trade of kidnapping. Because one thing that never happens is that these criminals are hardly apprehended. They are hardly prosecuted. They are hardly jailed. So a young, broke, abandoned person in the forest in Zamfara in Katina in Sokoto in Kirby says to himself that there might be an opportunity for me to make millions of naira if I can get out because nobody's going to arrest me and nobody's going to prosecute me. And it's easy for them to come... Yes, let's bring in Mr Adebayo now. Mr Adebayo, can you hear us? Okay, we'll try to reconnect with Mr Adebayo. Well, Mr Adebayo, another dimension to this security threat that we've seen is the government and specifically the governor of Zamfara state, Bellamitawale, urging people to take up arms. So he's saying that the people of the state should come out en masse. They should face the bandits if they come to their village. He says they should not sleep in the night. They should set ambush for these terrorists and bandits and they should just get weapons. Or any weapon they can find and attack these terrorists who come to invade their villages. First of all, is this a realistic call? Because I wonder where farmers and mothers and fathers would get arms from to go ahead and attack bandits. So first of all, is that realistic? And in a functional democracy, should a protest not be the result and the government taking action? Sorry, I think Mr Adebayo is back. Mr Adebayo, can you hear us? Mr Adebayo, Mr Adebayo, you can go home please. Okay, I think it's an unrealistic thing. Listen, the fundamental constitutional provision and the reason that there exists a government is for the protection of life and properties. The security and welfare of the Nigerian people shall be the fundamental objective of the Nigerian government, without which there actually is no need for government. Because the reason that you need a government in place is for the welfare and security of the Nigerian people. Now if any government abdicates that responsibility or shies away from that responsibility, it has completely failed and has completely lost legitimacy and has no need and it's not fit for purpose to govern. It's as simple as that. Because the alternative is a wild, wild west situation where people now have to arm themselves, to defend themselves from criminal elements across the country. And you don't want to have a country where everybody wants to move around with a shotgun or a cutlass or an arm in himself trying to protect himself for his family. So I think first of all at the government level, many of these governors who I feel are not even challenging the president enough is to admit that they have failed the Nigerian people. They have failed in the responsibility to protect weak and vulnerable citizens and they should take that responsibility very seriously. The Nigerian citizens do not have the capacity to protect themselves from criminals who are wielding AK-47s. So I think it's a pipe dream and I think it's sad, it's not embarrassing, that will be urging innocent farmers to defend themselves from criminals who are clearly armed with superior weaponry, who are taking over villages, who are killing people in their tens and in their hundreds to now defend themselves against those. I think it's sad and I choose my words carefully. I mean it's bottom line irresponsible because you cannot expect, I mean what are you going to do against an AK-47 building, bandit or kidnapper or terrorist? It's absolutely nothing you can do about it. You're bringing a life to a gunfight and it makes no sense that the government that we pay taxes that we pledge allegiance to will be throwing it back to us to say we should protect ourselves. When they move around in SUVs with security escorts everywhere where their children are getting education outside this country, when their families are highly protected, when they live in high-gated estates, highly policed and protected and we have faded and bandit to the philistines, it's absolutely ludicrous. It's absolutely ludicrous and we cannot accept this. It's their job and it's their responsibility to protect the Nigerian people and it's ridiculous. Can you even imagine that we should be having the conversation that the Nigerian people should give themselves? It makes no sense and must not be accepted or tolerated in other places. I'm guessing that the failure that you've mentioned now, where you pointed out that a government that has failed in that regard of that very, very fundamental requirement of governance and should be able to own up and agreed that they have failed. I'm guessing that that covers the state and federal and local level of governance. Yes, talk to the bottom. Can you hear us? I've been hearing you all along. For some reason we couldn't hear you. I apologize for your power situation. It seems the power is off again. But I want to bring you back with regards to the incident in Zamfara, the kidnap of 73 or 100 students once again that is taking place. And I'm going to ask you on something that I had mentioned earlier. The seemingly invisibility, it doesn't seem like a lot of these security agencies exist in those locations. The DSS, the Nigerian police, the SWAT, like they were mentioned, you remember at the end of the NSARS protest there was something called SWAT. The NSCDC, every single level of security, it doesn't seem to exist in Zamfara. And why does it look that way that 100 people can be taken 100 kilometers away and there's no resistance anywhere? Well, one of the things that we have to, can you hear me? Yes. Loud and clear. Go ahead. Okay. Now, there seems to be a collapse of government. There seems to be a total collapse of governance structures in this country. And it's quite unfortunate. We are turning towards, physically turning towards a stage failure because it is unheard of, it is unthinkable that we can be going through this cycle again and again and again, kidnappings of school children every day, every time. These days, anytime I or any member of my family wants to travel and they have to, wherever they are going, it cannot be done by air, it's going to be by road. My heart is always in my mouth until they get there and I know they have arrived safely. Especially when my children are going back to school, you understand? So, it's like, that's why, when I was mentioning Minister Dato'au to go, I mentioned the First Minister first, the Health Minister out to go because of the mismanagement of the health situation, the information minister has to go because of this misinformation. The Internet of the Health Minister has to go. The police have, all these people, they hope that much. Now, let me tell you, we were discussing, I was hearing Minister Dato'au discussing about the issue of the policy trials in the area of agriculture. Now, there is no magic. I do not envy the current minister of agriculture. I don't have any, because there is a policy clash, there is a policy crisis, there is a policy anarchy. Now, the policy of the presidency is directly conflict with the agricultural, whatever agricultural policy that you have. Once the president is saying that he's going to continue with the open-gracing policy, there is nothing, there is no miracle, there is no magic that anybody who is the agricultural minister will be able to perform because the full crisis will still continue to rise, because farmers will not be able to save their farms. These healers will still continue to go there and kill them, because the president says he wants open-gracing, which is antithetical to the agricultural development of this country. And you know that the oil will still go. The oil will still go. I don't know whether we can see oil or oil will be marketable in the digital market in the next 20 years. So we have to fall back on agriculture. And for as long as you allow open-gracing policy, we will never get to the area of agriculture, no matter how good the minister of agriculture is. So that is one thing we have to know. When the government is unable to protect these people, when the government has lost the legitimate use of force to protect the people, we are turning to state failure. If bandits or criminals can just walk into the Nigerian Defense Academy to kill people, if bandits can drive bomb into the police headquarters and bomb it, and who is going to protect us, if our security agencies have, the casino state government came out to defend yourself, is telling you to defend yourself. The sovereign state government came out to defend yourself now. But when the Bedouin state government, some autumn, said the same thing about a year ago, the freedom government came hard on him. Came hard on him. Now the government is saying that I can no longer protect you, go and protect yourself. And that is going to lead to terrible cause. If you say I should protect myself, is that I go and get the pop action, or I go and get the coups, 80% by myself? If bandits and criminals and kidnappers and terrorists can have access to weapons, then the free citizens also have to have weapons. If the government is telling me to protect myself, it takes a good guy with the gun to defend himself and get the bad guy with the gun. And we should not allow that thing to spiral out of control. It's unfortunate that we have failure of governance. Now the president can suck the ministers. Who is going to suck the president? Who is going to suck the president? The president himself needs to be sucked. That is the bigger thing. And in a situation where these bandits are apprehended, and then the military says they have surrendered that they are now repentant, and they reintegrate them into society, they forgive them. Where does that leave our anti-terrorism war? That is one of the things I wrote in my column last week. No we are in the war. No we are in the issue of terrorism as any terrorist ever repented. There is no repeater terrorist anywhere. What they do is that they deceive you that they are repented. Look all those people they say they are repeater and Boko Haram members, who are now in the city. You can see they have sought a Boko Haram attacks now. That is because those people they released into the society and that intelligence real time and sending back same to their commanders in the bushes. That is why you are seeing the upsurge. You understand? That is why Eastwap is getting grabbed now. We are releasing terrorists who have killed people, who have raped, who have displayed millions of Nigerians. Displaced many millions of Nigerians. You said you are repentant. You don't remember that general that came out here to say that the repentant Boko Haram stands a chance to become the president of Nigeria. How do we cross that segment can be? And those are the people who are managing our security. You say a Boko Haram, a repeater Boko Haram can be. That is why they have one of them in government now. A confirmed sympathizer of terrorism is now the one managing my data and your data and everything about you and me, about this country to me. So, I mean we should not shy away from the truth. It is quite unfortunate and the other thing I need to tell Nigerians is that the regular Nigerians like us, we should know that we should never allow ourselves to be used against one another by this leader in the area of religion or ethnicity. That gives us, you know, that poverty does not have ethnicity, does not have religion. This security does not have ethnicity or religion. We must never play the religious card. We must never play the ethnicity card. We must come together and make sure that we find peace. In fact, let's forget about even blaming anybody anymore. Let us find a way, let that be a massive action in terms of finding peace, solution to our problems, to our common problems. The idea is that they are protecting themselves. Never allow anybody to use religion or ethnicity to determine how you will respond to national issues. And I think Nigerians must know that. We must know that. We are divided enough. No more division. Let us come together and fight common solution to our issues. That is my basic directive to Nigerians this morning. Marco de Bajo, thank you very much for staying with us all through the discussion this morning. Once again, apologies for your past situation, but we thank you for still joining the conversation. Aya Dele Adio, the Managing Director of the Avalon Daily. Thank you also for your time and for speaking with us on these very important issues. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, Thursday morning. And this is where we will be wrapping up the discussions on the breakfast this morning. If you missed out, remember where to catch up. It's simply at PLOS TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram. Say it on our YouTube channel at PLOS TV Africa. And we have a second YouTube channel. Yes, it's at PLOS TV Africa lifestyle. I am Annette Felix. And I am Osaugi Ogbor. Have a beautiful September.