 Welcome to the knuckleheads of Liberty. And so we wanted to have you back to tell us a little bit about what it's like being a Libertarian, elected Libertarian in office and governing. And by the way, James, can you pull up the image real quick? So this is Hanford, California just for our guests so they kind of understand where this is. Because it's such a rare thing when a Libertarian gets elected. We just wanted to let you know where the unicorn lives. And here it is, Hanford, California. And I believe that's the town right there. So there we go. So Kalisha, tell us about some of your successes. Well, what's it like governing as a Libertarian? Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me back on. I had a lot fun the last time. Tim, you're not in your cockpit this time. Oh, now I remember. Yeah, I remember you. Once he said screaming eagle, eagle, I remembered. Yeah, well, you know, when they send you out to swap airplanes, you don't get back in time for the podcast. So you got to do something. It made for a great backdrop, though. Indeed. It's been really great so far. I mean, definitely you got these crazy times and ups and downs and polarization going on even at the local level too. So just navigating some of those things. And there's been some, you know, bumps in the road with our council. And it's kind of crazy to go through some of the things that we do and still function as a very cohesive council on a lot of things. So, you know, to the point where, I mean, we get along so well that I have council members in other cities that I'll be like, oh my God, you guys have to watch their council meetings. It's weird. They don't scream at each other. They don't, you know, they don't call each other names. So at least they have that going for us. But yeah, it's been a little, it is weird because we're in a good way, I guess. You know, I started off as a council member and people aren't familiar with some structures of different local governance. Ours is what you would call a weak mayoral system or it's ran by the day-to-day operations or ran by a city manager. So for us, we rotate amongst ourselves regarding who's going to be vice mayor and who's going to be mayor. So every year we do that reorganization. So a year in, I went from council member to vice mayor and then something contentious happened, you know, regarding a low-income housing project. And again, you know, just that volatility that we have in politics and stuff, it really got one base really fired up. And things didn't go very well for our mayor during a meeting and unfortunately she lost her temper. And at that point the council decided to do a reorg and I got bumped, we swapped places, so I got bumped to mayor and bumped down to the vice mayor. And so that's how I transitioned so quickly to mayor after just, you know, just getting elected in for the first time. How long ago was the escalation? About a month ago. So definitely trial by fire, which I feel has been my whole 10-year-on-counsel. The moment I got onto council, we had a censure council member for some misconduct. I won't get into that, but there was that. And then obviously this huge blow-up and the reorg at an untimely, you know, what's not the normal time. And then kind of running meetings too, where we're still dealing with the topic that was so contentious and just trying to make sure that I keep the, everybody as calm and collected as possible and council members, council moving and stuff. And I had to channel my inner Mimi Robson, a chair of the California State Party. I learned a lot from her, just how she conducts meetings and just trying to keep a level head and those things. So learned a lot from her and we're moving forward. How large is your council? We have five members. And you're interested to know too that three out of the five of us are libertarians. Wow. Yeah. Three out of five. Yep. That was, we have a Democrat and a Republican filling the other two spots. And I got elected on Francisco Ramirez was mayor. He became mayor at the time, or he was mayor at the time when he decided to switch parties and become libertarian as well. So he was already, you know, on on city council. A few months later, we had another, another council member who's Republican. He decided not that has anything to do with him leaving, but he decided for personal matters that he wanted to leave council a little bit early, you know, and he decided to make an appointment with his family, that kind of thing. And we had, we decided to make an appointment to, to fill a seat to fill out, finish the rest of his term. And we, we selected Amanda Sultry out of a, of a series pool of candidates. And within a couple months, she decided to switch to libertarian as well. So they didn't run as libertarians. And I, you know, obviously, obviously there was some influence, I guess, they realized that the party really resonates with them. And, and I think it also takes care of that stigma. You know, as you mentioned to the unicorn of having somebody get elected as a libertarian, even though we're a non-partisan race, there's still that stigma that we don't get elected. And so seeing that I had a very, very difficult race against a very, you know, against the Republican incumbent in a red city. And I still won. I think that kind of boosted their confidence and helped them get over that, that line. Well, Kalish, one thing you mentioned that these other two people had switched parties. And I remember you telling us in the prior time you were on the show that you had originally been a Democrat and then had sort of been disillusioned and switched to being a libertarian. Were these other people, people who had switched from Democrats or did they switch from Republican or maybe a third party? I believe, I believe Francisco Ramirez had been, he's doubled in a few of the parties, but I think where the last one he was part of was Democrat. And then Amanda was definitely Republican. And again, she felt that the party had left her, so she decided to go no party preference and then eventually made the leap to libertarian. Oh, it's just a good sign that we're drawing from both parties. Yeah. Well, and it goes to that argument too, because you hear it all the time of people saying like, oh, if it weren't for the libertarians, the Republican candidate would have won. And then they get the Democrat would have won. And we just say that that's not a guarantee. We're neither Republican nor we're Democrat. And if you were to actually split us down the middle and get into our head and we had to pick one of them, it would probably be split down the middle. I don't think that we would have swayed it one way or another. Okay. So what you called a red city, meaning it predominately right to a lean Republican. Well, what do you think now do you see as the differences between governing as a libertarian versus the governance of the previous Republican administrations? I think it gets a little, it gets a little muddied, I think at the local level. You know, if you're, if you're in the state Senate like that, you've definitely got those party lines. But, but I think when it comes down to local issues, people really have to look at the issues, you know, up close and personal. And now it's a decision that's affecting your, your neighbors and your own life. But that said, though, I've, I've, I noticed a lot of Republicans, who will still do the pet projects that we're still advocating for increases in taxes, those sorts of things even here at the local level. So, yeah, that's been, that's been one of those things though. My predecessor, you know, people like certain things about her and didn't like certain things about her, but you know, I have to say like, yeah, I went in and she was wanting to raise taxes and was all about it. And we've got staff that are just like, but no, wait, why don't you want to do it too? So it's that balancing act too, because everybody wants more services, but we also don't want to pay more taxes. So it's kind of like, well, you guys have to make the decision. I know where I stand, but they have to make, they have to figure it themselves out. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness always and forever.