 Minister Heighton, welcom to Eden, this is your first visit here. What are your impressions of the conference? It's lovely to be invited to Eden. I haven't been here before. As you say, I've found it to be a very interesting conference. Everybody's very friendly. There are so many papers, so many people presenting. I think it is the place to be if you're interested in reimagining how we do online learning. To reimagine education, to reimagine learning, there are lots of possibilities there, aren't they? Someone said this morning that the learner has to be central to that. Is that your approach too? Well, I suppose so. The learning is done by the learner, but their learning is facilitated through contact with us and with our materials and as part of our organisations. I think that the people who really need to be doing the reimagining are the institutions and thinking about how we can adjust our businesses to make sure that our materials can be used in the most flexible possible way for those learners and by those learners. But not just by our immediate learners, also by each other and by other teachers. So certainly in the institution that I work for, I'm very aware that when we talk about openness and sharing, we're speaking from a position of privilege in that I work in a very good university, a very old university with excellent academic staff, beautiful collections, amazing researchers. So when we talk about openness and equality, it's very important for us to think about what we're doing as a knowledge creation organisation and think about how we can address our privileged position by sharing materials that can then be reused by other teachers in their teaching. I think that we're going to talk a bit about open licensing. But often people confuse the fact that individual learners can use the material if we make it available to them. Whether our material can be reused by other teachers in their work really requires that extra effort from us to think about the sharing licenses for reuse rather than just the publishing and putting licenses. Edinburgh, where you work, is very advanced in this area. You've made some incredible strides in terms of openness and opening up content. But one thing you said this morning, I think, struck a lot of us. I'll try and quote you. It was about if you were not open, you were at risk and it cost money. Can you elaborate on that? Yes. Edinburgh is a very distinctive institution in that it was founded as a civic university for the common good and it's a publicly funded university. So part of what we need to do is to make sure that our materials are available openly and shared for the greater good for society within Edinburgh, within Scotland and beyond. We have quite a lot of material now. We have many MOOCs, a lot of OER, we have a lot of distance learning courses. So we're really talking about scale. And as soon as you talk about scale, you're talking about systems and processes. We're using lots of different platforms. We're using repositories. We've got a lot of content. Those online master's courses include a lot of content. So when we think about investing for open educational resources, if the content that we're producing right now doesn't have a license associated with it, which means that it can be reused in the future by the university, by each other in different ways for this teaching and then this teaching on this course and then this course. So reusing material within the institution and knowing its license and who created it and when. It's very important as part of the metadata at scale. So my point about not being open is a risk and not being open will cost us money is that anything that we create now, if we have to go back to that in the future and do the work of checking the licenses on the material, that takes time and money. And colleagues always say, oh, well, I'll make my material available online now. And when we go back to them a couple years later and say we're moving this material from this repository to this repository, do you have the copyright for all this material? And they say, oh, no, I can't really remember where that came from. I said, oh, well, we can't move it if it doesn't have the license on it. They say, isn't there someone who can check that for me? And so that expense of having of bringing in somebody later to check the copyright so that we can reuse the material. Often the original creator has left or it wasn't clear. And so we can't use the material ourselves. So the risk to the institution of having material that we don't have a clear license on means that we can't then use it in the future. So checking the license now means that we won't have to pay the additional cost in the future. So better to work it out upfront rather than later on. It's a legacy problem otherwise. So not being open is a risk to our future business. And it will cost us money because we will end up having to go back and change and check all of that material. I wonder how many other universities have actually seen that. I suspect not so many, but we'll see in the future whether that actually comes back. One of the things that particularly interested me about your keynote was that you mentioned that you have a Wikimedian in residence at the university. Can you tell us what that entails? Yes, so the Wikimedian in residence scheme is like an artist in residence or a writer in residence. We work very closely with Wikimedia UK. There have been Wikimedians resident in museums and libraries before, but University of Edinburgh is the first one in the UK for the university to have the Wikimedian as part of our digital skills area. So this is a very important commitment, I think, to the skills and understanding around participating in an open knowledge culture, what we contribute, how we can contribute to it, but also an understanding as to who creates information, how does it get on to Wikipedia, how does it stay there, what choices are made, what content is openly licensed enough for Wikipedia. So we have a Wikimedian in residence, he's currently with us for a year, and he's doing amazing activities, running sessions where, I don't know if you've ever been to a Wikipedia editor-thon, you get a lot of people in a room together, and together with each other and with the librarians and with content experts, we just spend all day improving the quality of the content around a topic. By the end of the day, the Wikipedia content on that topic is much better than it was before. Well, that's an amazing idea, which is so simple yet so powerful, and I'm sure people watching this video will be rushing to their heads of department and say, can we have one as well? I hope so, because I think it's a fabulous idea. Melissa, thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you.