 And all right, it's 701. Let's open the meeting. We do have a quorum or current membership is five. Justin was reappointed by Montpeyre. So, and you took your oath today. Yep. Okay. Yeah, I was able to get in contact with them. Sure. And Kim will be coming to start the recording. No, Orca is doing the recording. No, they ask that you make a backup. They ask that you make a backup. I'm not doing a backup, Steven. I'm not doing a backup. That's why we have work here required that Orca is not a reliance. You're required by the law on virtual only meetings to make a recording. Yeah. And the recording is being made by work. You're not sure that are you. You're out of order, Steven. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, but you're out of order. So we're looking at the agenda. Any additions to the agenda or changes. I have a couple. That I'm really embarrassed that I forgot one is after the minutes, we're going to talk about the organizing meeting on, which is by the charter the first Wednesday of April. I'd also like to add. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. After the discussion of the telecommunication work, Jim Ward would like to do a short video on some training. Is that correct, Jim? It's a funding request and some training and I have a video that shows what I'd like to do. Yep. Okay. And then under other business, we have some open meeting law violations. We need to deal with. The agenda. I have a comment. I have a comment. Okay. It's not on the agenda. Okay. And if there's no objection, the agenda with those two modifications will be approved. By unanimous consent. Public comment for anything that's not on the agenda. I have comment. Okay. It's not on the agenda. Yeah, it's not on the agenda. I have a comment. I have a comment. I'm sorry. For two committee chairs appointed last summer or fall. To complete a charter change recommendations. And outreach to get other member towns to join. And I discovered recently that neither of those had done any work. On those. I haven't seen any evidence in the minutes of any charter change recommendations. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Outreach to towns and none of that has happened. And that's. It's very time critical. And those things need to be moved forward. Those committees were resolved. We appointed liaisons. I can go back and find you the minutes for that, Stephen. Any other comments? Okay. Sorry. Yeah. How is the liaison going to draft charter changes? Stephen. You made your statement. I'm letting you just know that those committees were dissolved. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. We appointed. People as liaisons for outreach and website work. And charter. I have to go back to the minutes. And I said, as I told you, I'll go back to the minutes. But what we found was people were finding it really difficult without staff to. Follow all the rules and have committee meetings. So that's what we did. Kim, you wanted to say something under public comments. I'm sorry. I was five minutes late. We're approving minutes of February 10th. Now. Okay. Yeah, I do have a comment on that. Second page. Discussion of CFMAS. MOU. I'd like. The minister reflect. Then in my comments. I said a memorandum of what I thought the agreement between us was. And the way most people react to such a thing. Is if they agree with it, they say yes. If they say no. They give reasons why. And you have an opportunity to discuss and resolve your differences. And that's what I, that's why I wanted to meet with them. I wanted them to come up with a better relationship with the organization. Which I think actually. Brent did in that very first sentence on the second line. To meet with. Capital far to determine what they hope to gain from participating. In the public safety authority. Okay. That was just summary of the discussion, which I thought pretty nailed it. Well, I don't think it is a complete summary of the discussion. I'd like it to be corrected. Okay. Well, I'm going back because you sort of started, I thought the MOU discussion in one place, but ultimately I thought you ended where Brent summarized. So you want to try to give me some. More distinct wording, like a one sentence I can put in here. Yes. You want. That I asked the. The. Towns will call them CFMAS. To tell me why they disagreed with my analysis of their agreement. And to have a discussion. As to. If they thought my analysis was wrong. Why. And did they want to talk about. Improving our relationship. And you remember saying that at the meeting. Not in your. Okay. Absolutely said that. Okay. And other people. Are you all right with that amendment? I don't remember that happening. So help me out. People. Why does the towns disagree with Kim's approach? They should tell me why. If they disagreed with it, we should have a discussion about why and why. I don't know. If they disagreed with it, we should have a discussion about why and what we can do about it. Kind of normal relationships when you're talking about a contract. Okay. You're talking about towns versus capital far. No, I'm talking about CFMAS. Okay. So no, but you, I'm sorry, I wrote the word downtown. That's what I thought you said. Okay. So, so why capital far mutual aid disagreed. Then I should say why. Yeah. And we should have a discussion about. Either proper interpretation of the agreement. Or. How about have discussion on interpretation. Okay. And possible. Changes to. For a new relationship. Okay. Board. Others comfortable with that. I need some thumbs up, thumbs down. Two. Okay. Well, see Kim's going to be a thumb up. Jim was a thumb up. Yep. And Justin was a thumb up and three now is our quorum. So it'll pass. So we'll add that to the minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else. Okay. Entertain a motion to approve the minutes as amended with Kim's amendment. Thank you, Doug. Second. Second. Thank you. I think Justin beats you on the hand up, but that's good. All right. All in favor say aye or wave your hand. All opposed. Say nay or wave your hand. Okay. Terrific. Passes unanimous. Update on a capital farm mutual aid organizational meeting. That was what I put in there. Organizational meeting is next. The Charter says the first Wednesday of the month, which would be April 6th. Is it the board's pleasure to have it on Wednesday, April. Or to change it to our regular meeting date of April 14th, Thursday. Is it the meeting date of April 14th? No, I mean, it's just what people schedule are. If people can attend on the sixth. The Charter mainly wants to make sure you have it. Set up a date to have it by the first, you know, April 1st. We have our regular meeting on a Thursday, the second Thursday. So we could change it to that. Would this mean two, two meetings in April? No, no, we would just have the organizational meeting at our regular meeting. That would be my preference. You want to make a motion to that? Sure. I move that we have the organizational meeting at a regular meeting on April 14th. Second. Okay, Jim second. For the discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed. All right. So our next meeting, April 14th. We have our regular meeting on April 14th. We have our regular meeting on April 14th. We have our regular meeting on April 14th. We have our regular meeting on April 14th. We have our regular meeting on April 14th. And that's when we elect officers. So we desperately need a secretary. But you could be nominating yourself or any office you'd like. All right. Next on the agenda is the update to capital farm mutual aid. Membership and public safety authority. Skip. Okay. I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. I can share on my screen. If anybody wants to hear the, see the actual words. You haven't got a chance to read it. See. Well, I just read it. Okay. Well, there it is. I went through the memo and I couldn't find anything there that talked about their departure. I just read it. I've just read it. I've just read it. I've just read it. I'm just going to read it to the manager. And have a year lapse from the time they decide and vote to depart. But the full charter members have to vote by. Their resident voters. Whereas capital far just has their immediate membership. Is there anyone objects to accepting their letter with immediate Yes and a no. They're not actually members. They were not members sharing in the cost. What they're saying is they want to exit the contract. The MOU, yes. No, the MOA, the Memorandum of Agreement. I guess I only have the MOU, okay? Well, the MOA. Sorry. I used the wrong letter. You're right. MOA. Yep. The memo. Yeah, because it's different than an MOU that has cost sharing and everything in it. Yes. So if they want to terminate that agreement rather than talking about it, I don't have any objection, but I can't accept their letter because I think it should say they want to terminate the Memorandum of Agreement. Okay. Okay. I thought there might be some people who want this to be more exact, but others might want to accept it. Jim? I think this discussion is kind of fruitless. They've made a decision to withdraw and how it's characterized and defined and how the hairs of split really is irrelevant. They've decided not to participate at this point. And I would suggest we send them a letter regretting their decision. And if they want to be some clarification that we're assuming that this means you're ending the MOA or the MOU, whichever it is, we can put that in there. But I don't think it's worthy of any further discussion. I am myself personally very disappointed to see them leave. Well, I am too. Could you turn off the screen share so I can see people, Donna? Thank you. Actually, that was my motion, Jim, to just tell them that we regard the agreement between us as terminated and accept the termination. Okay. So, Jim, are you making a motion to that effect? And Kim is seconding it? Yeah. I'll make the motion that we accept their letter with regrets. Send them a letter accepting their withdrawal with regrets and an explanation of a reference to our understanding is that you are terminating the law. Okay. Yeah. All right. I am open to revision of that, Kim, if you wanted to say the clarifying statement a little bit differently. Well, I think he said what I suggested. You said that we're accepting the letter with regrets. And that's their intention is to terminate the MOA, the agreement. Yes. Okay. Any discussion about that motion? Does it include a letter to them, a response to them? Yes. That's what I'm sending a letter. We accept your letter with regrets and we're accepting it as a termination of the agreement. I would like that letter to also include the thought process that just because we're ending the formal agreement, we would like to include you on our mailing list and encourage you to continue to participate in our discussions because our input is valid no matter what. I'll accept that as a from the motion. I must say I did say that to them in when I was talking to Skip. He called me and I said, well, you know, I hope that you'll continue to work with us and they have every intention of still being involved and sharing resources, expertise, etc. Okay. Any other comments on the letter? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Great. Update on board members. Some of you weren't here earlier. Justin was reappointed by Montpellier City Council. Kim was elected. Congratulations, Kim. And so Justin's term is two years. Last time you were picking up an incomplete term, so now you have two years, so you'll expire. You'll expire. Your term will expire in 2024. It's going to expire. We can't afford to have you leave. Kim has elected three years. His term will expire in 2025. Okay. Next on anything else? I'm glad that you're all here and I believe that Steve McKenzie reassured me that Barry will be replacing Paul, looking for someone to fill that slot, so that's good. Don, I just, I would just comment it's not going to happen overnight. I've got to follow up council appointment solicitation and appointment process. So I'll get that started. Hey, you got, what'd you do? Hit somebody? Can you see it? I was out in the backyard. I tripped over the lead to my dog and fell forward. And of course my hand couldn't have hit snow. It hit ice. So I just, I just, it's a, it's a, I don't want to use the word fracture. It's a crack in the outside bone. You know, if I do this. You're going out, Steve, and this gets a little suspicious. You're using so much medical time your last year. Yeah. My doc says if it happens one more time, he's going to outfit me with training wheels. Okay. Well, I think you better be careful of those leashes, Steve, to get you every time. Yeah, it's, yeah, just, yeah, it's, it's, but it was my fault as much as I want to blame it on the dog. It was not his fault. Blame it on city council. They made the leash lock. Yeah. You know, I don't know if we've accepted Brent householder's resignation, and I don't frankly know legally whether we have to or not. We never have in the past, but we can certainly acknowledge his work. He's tuned in. Yeah. I don't know if he wants to say anything. I'll miss him. Yeah. I don't know if he's listening or one of those people who's just walking around and hearing it in the background. But not only did he resign here, but he and his wife have both have jobs that really are in the Chittenden County area and they're looking to move in that direction in the next six months. So he had initially offered to be treasurer, which I thought, cool. He's got the accounting. He's got the public safety, but he's leaving our area. So we'll have to keep looking for somebody between now and next month, especially if anyone knows anyone, they could be accountant, not even know anything about public safety. We'll educate them, but they can share their skills with us. It would be really, really wonderful. Brent can do it until he leaves. Yes. Possibly, although he's not leaving. He's still not talking back. He said he was willing to maintain the website and post agendas in minutes, but that he didn't feel like he wanted to step into anything else. He's got his foot out the door already, you know, even if he's not packed yet. So Brent, we thank you. I guess he's not listening. Yeah. So the next item is our phase two telecommunication work. We actually have a couple of major decisions here. One is if we indeed like what Telomade put out as an RFP proposal to go out and do the work of creating an equipment RFP. And whether we like it enough that we want to do it as a sole source or we like the idea and we want to put it out to bid. What's the board's pleasure? And Telomade is here. Rick Burt is here. I like Rick Burt to respond to my questions. Well, first, I'd like us to have this other discussion before those are like a breakdown. I'd like to first just talk about whether or not we like the idea of doing the RFP for equipment. And if we feel like we can sole source it or go out to bid. Wow. Tim? I just had some fundamental questions that Rose, since Capital Fire Mutual Aid pulled out. The question came up, who are we doing it for? If Capital Fire Mutual Aid is no longer a part of it. And as I said, I regret that, but Barry City. They are part of it. They're still customers in Montpelier. They've always been part of our region. I mean. Okay. So you're because I was under the impression that Montpelier was going and Barry City was going a separate direction with their own radio system. But you're talking about Montpelier's overlap. That makes sense. So overlap from the dispatch onto the broader radio system than just Montpelier and Barry City. Well, yes. And hopefully, I guess even with the radios that Barry would want to be in sync with what Montpelier and anyone else in the region was going to be buying and part of be part of the network. The question is, Barry's not leaving. So why wouldn't we include it in this? I'm sorry? Barry's not leaving cap the public safety authority. Why would we not include it? A question that was interested in the simulcast and the radios. That could change. But I mean, to me, we're still a regional system and people may be a member, may not, even within Capital West with Montpelier. There's still towns that are going to benefit that are part of Capital Far and some that aren't part of Capital Far. If we're serious about having a fallback position using Barry City's dispatching, that I think we need to include there. They need to be included in it. They voted to participate. Let's continue that process. If I can clarify my question, because I think we're getting a little afield of it. The question that was asked of me was if Barry City is going its own direction, along with Montpelier, they collectively have a radio system plan that's going to be shared between the cities and not the other towns, a separate channel. Capital Fire was no longer on the board. The question they asked was who's the one that's sending out the RFP and who do they send the ... It comes back to the same old question that Kim's wrestled with all along. Who owns what and who's managing it? I'm not necessarily saying that it's a bad thing. Confused. I wasn't able to answer the question. Okay. Well, maybe I'll go back to the purpose of the equipment RFP. One is for any of us to use when we go talking to potential grantors, state legislators, town select boards, federal, lehi, whoever is in his seat, is that this RFP of equipment is the next step from the report we got in August from Telev8. It's a tool. I mean, we've seen Montpelier, Barry, both, and Capital Fire have used the Telev8 study and will continue to be used to support their ideas. Here's evidence of our need. Here's a list of exact kind of equipment we need. So to me, the equipment RFP is a regional resource that any and all of us can use once it exists. And Montpelier expressed to me they're definitely interested, both as a council and as a bill city manager working with their customers, Capital Fire, of the RFP very specifically. So this is the creation of the RFP, but not necessarily the issuing of it? That's right. We can't issue until we have money and we can't get money until we get more detail in our equipment. Okay. All right. So I see that step. It's a circle. Yeah. I mean, even if the thing that to me is advantageous, even where we are now, I mean, we, Capital Public Safety Authority with no staff, is that Montpelier is willing to use their staff to help usher this through with Telev8 to get this equipment RFP that anybody in the region then could use as a tool to get funding. Once we have funding, then this RFP is my understanding will need to be fine-tuned, but not much, but it will need some fine-tuning because when you go to a grant, maybe one place is where you go for the consoles, maybe another place is where you go for the radios, and maybe another place for the tower. So, you know, there's, we're only limited by our imagination of how to use the information once we have it. Anybody, Rick, do you want to add to that, Doug? I do. I see your hand just a minute. I just wanted to, you're going to unmute yourself. Rick, there you go. Yes, ma'am. Hi, everyone. I'm happy to be here, and I'm glad we're still in conversation. I'm sorry about the, what happened to Capital Fire. I hope that doesn't change your outcome or progress. Do you have a specific question for me, Donna? Well, just talking about, I was talking about what I felt was the use of the RF, the equipment RFP that you'd be working on as far as any entity, whether it's Public Safety Authority, Barrie, Montpellier, Capital Fire, going to their town, their legislators, the feds, to get money. And using that as a tool to show what we need. If television is so fortunate to be awarded the opportunity to support you, you would be able to use the RFP for, you know, for those purposes. I mean, I think, you know, you've got to, you have a document in hand that shows that we're serious about it. We have a plan, we're ready to execute on that plan once we secure funding. So, it is advantageous to have that. I certainly would ensure that whoever is presenting it, you know, we either have a, you know, a PowerPoint presentation that they can use to drive the discussion or they certainly are prepared with their own notes of why. And I think that's a coordinated effort that each of you that, you know, the board should be engaged in, depending on who's taking the lead. I mean, if everyone's going to do something independently, that's a different story. But the way I had a plan on structuring the RFP so that it was, it was kind of a second, it had various sections so that, you know, you could pull out pieces of it to use for, say, consoles or to purchase radios. The value, the benefit of having a consolidated RFP is that you can typically negotiate for volume discounts. And so there's an advantage to purchasing, you know, at least a, you know, a single contract vendor or, you know, a vendor. I mean, we do, you can go through the process of having a construction vendor, an A&E vendor, radio vendor. All that, you could design your RFP that you can buy from anyone. But that would be the purpose of it. Until you have funding, you obviously cannot issue this because you don't have a funding vehicle or a no procurement department in that, in the region is going to accept that without a funding vehicle. So yes, the answer is that, you know, you'd have a ready to go. We're ready. We just, you know, we're seeking funding to support our initiative. And that was what, that was one of the things that the group had asked for. You know, that's not, that was, that was a, you know, a goal that was established. Anyway, I, but I'm happy to answer any questions. I said I'd be here this month and answer questions. So whatever you want to, however you want to go, you just let me know. Okay. I got two hands up. There's Kim and there's, and there I have Justin. So Kim. Well, Rick, are you aware that the two cities have gotten a bid offer from Burlington Communications to get all the equipment that they want and a price to it? No, sir. I wasn't aware of that. I wasn't aware, though, that before the project started, the Capitol Fire had received a quote from them. And I, you know, so I was aware of that, but I wasn't aware that the, you know, the, the cities had done that. Now, this is a recent one. I just learned of it today. And so there's a, the cities have already solicited a provider bid. And I think there's another potential provider is Tate Communications. Do they serve this area? Tate is one of, I'd say for your market, there's probably four, maybe five vendors. Tate being one of them. Harris, Monroe, Tate, Koden is another vendor. They do, they are, I think they're an Australian company with a U.S. base. They recently purchased Zetron who does radio consoles and they have a simulcast radio network. So I think they, they would, they could probably participate. So, you know, if you're getting, if you're receiving bids from Burlington, I don't know. I don't think it was, was it really a bid, Kim, or was it vendors presenting a proposal? It was, I'm not sure. I think it was the vendors submitting a proposal. Yeah. It wasn't a formal bid. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, those are good to have. I mean, they obviously know your market, you know them, they're a good vendor. You know, obviously that's something that, that you have relationships with them. And that makes sense to work with someone. You have a relationship with it. I, what we had discussed previously was, you know, a formal RFP process so that you can ensure you have all your requirements designated. From my experience, if you don't define your requirements and you receive and accept a bid like that, you, you, you don't have, you know, you don't have a contractual vehicle that you developed. I mean, you can develop it after the fact and make sure you get all the language in there. But without defining your requirements and having the vendor agree to that, those requirements in writing, you can get into potentially a challenge with, with managing a contract. And I'm not saying that is the case, but that can be the case. Different bidding. Can we, can we just, I'm going to erupt just a minute and ask if Steve McKenzie could add any information about this aspect of Kim Cheney saying it's a bid. I thought it was more of an information seeking of estimated cost. Do you know about this information that they got from Burlington? I'm happy to comment and I'll preface that by saying I'm only the city manager, so I'm usually the last to know. But I'm not aware, I'm not aware of what you're talking about Kim. I'm not aware that at least Barry City has a recent proposal of any kind from Burlington Communications or anybody. That's news to me. I saw it today, including prices for radios for both cities and radios for the surrounding towns. Is that something? Joe and Doug Brent are both here, why don't we ask them? Sorry Doug, I didn't hear. Doug Brent is here, maybe he can answer. Oh yeah, right, Joe's here. Both of them. If they don't know, nobody knows. Joe, you're muted. I can't help that. Doug Brent, would you want to respond or just Joe? Can you hear me now, Donna? Yes. Okay, I would love to see what Kim's got because we're unaware of anything. We have not, the city of Barry has not solicited any pricing from anybody. That's interesting. Somebody might have done it with our name on it, but we have not requested one thing. So I don't want to spend time on this, I just wanted to solidify it because I hadn't heard it either. Do you have other questions, Kim? Well, my initial questions were, can you give me a rough breakdown on the cost for doing the simulcast system versus what the two cities want? We're trying to talk about whether or not we want to do the equipment RFP Exactly, I want to know what it's going to include and what the cost is. We have a general cost in the August report and this RFP is to nail down that question. Can Rick answer my question? What is your question, sir? I'm not sure. Well, would there be a cost difference if we don't do a simulcast radio system? I don't know. You mean a cost system for the radio infrastructure itself? Well, for your work. Well, I'm not going to provide any more pricing without a requirement. It's hard for me to give a response to something where I need the requirements for. Anything that's less than what we're doing right now, yeah, it would affect the price, I'm sure. I'm not going to try to pull a number without having a detailed requirement. So would there be another contract proposal with choices? If you can, you know, put in writing what you want, I'd be happy to provide a response to it. Yes, I'd be happy to do that. Did Donna send you the questions that I wanted to ask? I did, but I want to back up this question, Rick, because I'm taking Kim's question to another degree of detail that we're not at yet. And that this focus of this conversation is about whether the board wants to do the equipment RFP that will give us more detail that will lead us to more exact cost or and does the board want to do a sole source or bid it out? That's the focus of this conversation. And I'm going to hold us to it because we've been, we need to stay on time. We have extra time, we can ramble about other things. So Kim, do you have a question dealing with the equipment RFP? Well, my question hasn't been answered. Are you going to, Rick, are you going to propose a separate a specific contract for your work? We've got one. Your RFP. Well, I have a general statement, but it doesn't include a breakdown between the simulcast system and the equipment for the cities. And look, any grant request has to include them both or we're not going to have communications. But I just want to know where we're going with this since since CFMAS has decided to withdraw from us, which is fine. If that's what they want to do, I don't. This equipment RFP is to fulfill that $3.9 million estimate. Right. So it includes the simulcast system. And the consoles and the radios. Yes. Anything else, Rick? I'm missing tower work. Well, you know, obviously construction work, maybe tower upgrades, you know, there was a number of item ones that we identified. Kim, I just went to answer your question. And I did provide your responses, but, you know, the easiest way to answer it is that I want if we can, you know, we can carve out exactly what we're, you know, those elements are. And I mean, you know, what we're talking about, there are, there are some sites that we've identified that was the radio sites and equipment requirements for Barry City and from on failure. And they were integral to the regional radio network. So those could be carved out as a separate procurement. And they could be done that way, certainly. The, you know, the challenge, the challenge is that you won't have a regional radio network. And so in order to have a regional radio network, and if you do separate procurement, you're going to have to coordinate across them. Now it's all, it's all doable. But, you know, I mean, I don't, off the top of my, I can't, I can't tell you right now what the difference in cost would be. I have to go back to the drawing board. But, you know, there are elements that, that wouldn't have to be drafted in a full regional procurement document that would, would, would be required. So yes, you would remove certain pieces and it's going to affect the labor required to get the job done. But they'd be separate, like contracted. So that if we go for a grant, it would be so much to the cities and so much to the CFMA has. That's a strategy you could undertake. Sure. I think it bifurcates, though, your objective for, it certainly changes your, your objective of being a regional radio network. I mean, you could still achieve a regional radio network objective by, by splitting them out and going independently. No doubt about it. You just, you know, you'd have to coordinate across the, the jurisdictions and, and, and, you know, it's all doable. Okay. I'm going to go to another person and come back for your other questions. Kim, Justin was next. And then I had Stephen and then Jim. This is just, it's just, I'm slightly changing topic. It's same topic, but it's a different task regarding whether we should sole source it or whether we should, whether we should seek bids. Before I say anything, I want to say, I think Rick is incredibly professional and has done an amazing job. And I've read everything that he's put out and I'm very impressed by it. Having said that, I do think, I do think we should put it out to bid. Honestly, strictly because it's the right thing to do. And I think this is the, the CDPSA is an important organization. I think politically putting it out to bid is the right thing to do. I think ethically putting it out to bid is the right thing to do. Even if ultimately we have a very strong idea that we're going to go to elevate, I think following the process is important. So that's what I would vote for. Those are my, the entirety of my thoughts on the topic. Okay, Steve McKinsey. Yeah, I, I'm going to start with, I think the question that, that Kim was asking. I've skimmed Rick's televates proposal. I have not digested in any kind of detail, but my sense is that if a televate completes the work in that proposal, that the costs identified and it could be broken down any way that the district or the authority wants. So you can see what the relative costing is for different, I don't know, different combinations, if you will. I mean, Rick can, Rick can speak to that, but I, but I think I'm assuming that within the scope of the RFP, the cost presentation can be done in a way that will answer allocation of costs, if you will, for the proposals, for the, for the, a proposed scope of work or proposed project. The other comment I, I have goes to the question of sole source or bid. And, and I respect what Justin was saying. What I think, unfortunately, televate is, is that an extremely competitive disadvantage at this point, because you've already asked for a proposal from them. They have provided it for all intents and purposes that if that, that pricing information is public knowledge. And now you're, now you're asking for other competitors to provide a proposal and a fee. And they have the benefit of seeing what, what another competitor's price is before they even submit a proposal. That's a pretty awkward position to be in. And, and again, as much as I, I understand what Justin was saying, if, if televate has the institutional knowledge by virtue of the work they have done for CVPSA to date, and there's a comfort level on the part of CVPSA with their proposal, frankly, to go through the RFP process and, and to, and to then select televate for whatever reasons makes the RFP process look like it's wired. And I don't think that puts you in any better place than you are now if you make a decision to go source source. Now, having said all that, I have not been paid to say that by Rick Burke or a televate, but I'm giving you my perspective from having been on the consulting side of the world for 37 years and the whole competitive RFP process and so on. So I offer that for insight for whatever it's worth. Thank you. And Jim, I think you were next. Yeah, I was just looking for some clarification. My head's kind of spinning a little bit here, my original question about who are we doing it for was currently based on maybe some misunderstanding. Does your plan, Rick, and when I say plan the whole scope of what you're proposing, does that include the Barry City and Montpelier specific repeater sites and the new radio channel? Yes. As well as the other eight towers? Yes, sir. It was comprehensive, the cities. So when we looked at this, we and we worked very closely with Joe Altsworth there, you know, because we visited sites together and we ran coverage studies. And, you know, we selected sites based on Joe's knowledge of the geography and the radio coverage. And, you know, we ran the studies, but we put together a regional radio network. And there were obviously the location of the towers are specific to the geography. So there are towers in Barry City and Montpelier and throughout the 20 towns, you know, I mean not in every town, of course, but yes, the goal was for unified radio network, which is, you know, I highly encourage you to maintain that approach. If you, you know, even no matter how you go about it, you want to unify interoperable radio networks, it'll be the best option for your responders in your community. But yes, there are specific elements that would go to the dispatch center and equipment for each of the each of those areas. Yours includes the new consoles? Yes. Yes. I thought I thought it'd been determined at some point that the cities were buying their own consoles. So your plan has the, I don't know which frequency you're talking about, 155, 340 or, but Barry City and Montpelier, I understand are going to get licensed on a different frequency. Now, obviously they could go to the county frequency or the regional frequency when they needed to. But that's included in yours as well, the licensing and so forth of the new, or at least. I, yes, I mean, we're not, we're not, Tel Aviv is not pursuing the license, but it could be incorporated into that procurement. So another, you know, the vendor would be responsible for it. Those of you who know how difficult it is to get interference free channels in the VHF band know that it's not easy, but particularly above what we call the A-line, where you have to coordinate with Canada. Canada says no to everything you try to coordinate with them. And that's, and it takes, it takes an inordinate amount of time to license interference free channels, typically in the VHF band. It can be done and it always gets done, but that our, the proposal doesn't include Tel Aviv finding that channel. But we do really want a separate channel so that, you know, that we have a channel to dispatch off of for each of the cities and for capital fire and also some, some network tactical channel. So you have, now you can have a radio to radio tactical channel and fire, you know, fire, a fire ground channel. And then there would be a voice channel that would, that would be on the somal cast number as well. And that would require an additional frequency. So I understand, this is my last question, I understand that the main thrust in Berry City in placing of repeaters was to be able to get in building penetration, to get out of being able to transmit out of, out of a building through a wall, which has been a historic problem in Berry City. Do those repeaters also, are they on the Berry City frequency or they, do they still function with the regional frequency or are they total, that a totally separate system? What the ones that are designed to get them out of their buildings in the cities, Montpellier and Berry? We would recommend that all the frequencies put in every radio so that you have interoperability, you know, in the event of any, any responding entity would be able to communicate with any other. So, but there would be dedicated channels for, for, you know, for Berry City from Montpellier and for Capitol Fire. I mean, that, that was one of the intentions, but all of those, all of those frequencies would be programmed into every radio so that you could have mutual aid across your entire region. Right, but would the, the repeaters in Berry City, would they be able to accommodate a frequency as well as a Berry City frequency? And the reason I'm asking all of that is I'm trying to figure out my head, are there two systems being designed here that are exclusive of each other or is it one, all, all encompassing and one isn't? One system, I highly recommend it being one system that could be used by all users. But the one system can have multi-funding. So it's no, it's no, it's not contrary to have Montpellier and Berry find funding for their consoles, but still have it all interoperable. Can you mute, Stephen? Well, while you're waiting, you're interfering. Okay. I didn't hear from, okay. So Jim, I, you know, I'm not sure I'm answering your question properly, but, but the, again, one of the things that I mentioned in my response to Ken is that, yes, you can designate this, these sites, this equipment, you know, for Berry City and, and this, you know, this site and, and, and radio infrastructure and this equipment for, you know, that's primarily for Montpellier. And, and you could do the same for, for capital fire. That, that could be done. And, and, and, and, you know, you could, you know, we could put an estimate of costs for doing that as we've done the past for the entire network. But since that wasn't our original scope, that's what we didn't do. So what we're having a conversation about now is, is capital fire in, in or out? And I'm under the impression that they're, they're still in, if they're not, yes, maybe things change. But I'm, I don't, I don't know what that, I don't know the future of that. But, but yes, the answer to your question is yes, you could separate elements out of the overall network. Now there are, there is a simulcast controller that, you know, could be shared because you have to have a simulcast controller. That is kind of the, that you would, you really don't want to have separate of those, everybody having their own. That wouldn't be, you know, that wouldn't be efficient financially nor operationally. So there are some common elements, you know, like the controller. But, but in general, you know, I'm not trying to suggest to go in any direction one way or the other. I was just in the, of the impression that the cities had written a letter a few months back saying that they were going a separate direction with a separate design by one of the vendors. And I was wondering if that was a completely different plan from yours or whether they were incorporated into one. And I'm still a little confused on that. But maybe, maybe there's do, I don't have an answer on that. I couldn't, I can't tell you what's been going on since. I can tell you from Bill Frazier's point of view and, and Brian, they're very much working as a group, regionally mindset it, but also there are some specific things they're working directly with Barry at because it only affects Barry and Montpelier. But that's not to make it less interoperable. So Doug, I would like to hear from all the board members before I open it for public comment. Do you have anything you want to contribute to this conversation? You've been quiet. It's characteristically not in my nature, but I'm really kind of stuck on this revelation by Kim that there's some RFPs that have been received. And I'm kind of, I'm really curious as to where these RFPs came from, who asked for them? And because they do have a bearing on what we're doing with Rick and, and it also kind of reflects on the, the good comments that Justin brought up. But if somebody else has already got some RFPs in there, I'd like to know who and I'd like to know why and what, where'd they come from, Kim? Well, it came from Brian Pete in response to a public records request. Okay. And he's apparently here. He can answer your question. Yes, he is. And you're calling them RFPs. Okay. Well, I'm not sure it's an RFP. Well, it's, there's a proposal, a funding proposal. Well, you know, Kim, it's sort of like MOU and MOA, you know, which is an RFP or not? Well, I don't know. Brian, Pete, are you available? Can you connect? Yes, ma'am. Yeah, I don't know if you heard the previous conversation, Doug. Kim Cheney had brought up that he saw some vendor proposals of equipment recently. And I, as a city council, haven't heard about it. And Steve McKenzie, city manager, Barry hasn't heard about it. Doug Brent hadn't heard about it. So maybe you have. I have no idea of an RFP. The only thing I know I turned in is the, every year, the Department of Homeland Security provides certain grant funding to each state. State has a, has a pool of that money. They poll municipalities, they leave open a deadline. You can put in for items that are on an authorized equipment listing or an AEL. You have a certain amount of time to put in for the, for the grants. And we submit it for grants. It's a no match funding for mobile and portable radios and for a base station. It's a DHS grant. And you got, you got monetary figures from Burlington Communications for that. Yes, we're supposed to get three vendors. All right, but it has nothing to do with with the Televate activity. Yes, ma'am. No, it does in the sense that the Televate had put it down as a priority list that we're supposed to get, that it's recommended for mobile and portable radios. And so we put in the grant to get mobile and portable radios from Opelier Police and Opelier Fire. Well, Donna, if I may, I guess I'd ask Rick, does that kind of information, does it have any bearing on your work with the potential RFP from Public Safety Authority? Yes and no. The no part is that the law enforcement in your region are on a different frequency ban and they have their own, they have their own radio network. So, you know, we want to get those, we want to be sure that those two networks are interoperable, of course. I'm sure you're doing console patches today or not, but, you know, but the radio, so on the PD side, base stations and radios were recommended based on our conversation with the chief and we identified that. But our focus was on the fire, the firefighter, the fire responders. And so, you know, we focused on that particular aspect, but we certainly interviewed the law enforcement and documented in their requirements. On the radio side, yes, we came up with a number working which all is worth, you know, the number of radios that would be required across the region for the firefighters. And so, there may be some that if my bill has a receives a grant and includes 10, 15, 20, 50 radios, then that would be fewer that would be required across, you know, in the overall procurement process. So, that's why I say the answer is yes and no. But police radio frequencies are different, but the radios are the same. Well, the the rate at all depends what radio you buy, of course. But if you, you know, you're, you would buy a radio that's VHF and you for for the fire for the law enforcement and you would for the firefighters and the law enforcement is buying a UHF radio. I'd highly recommend that you get multiband radios. They're not that much more expensive these days, but but, you know, the fire again, the firefighter radios would also need to be have simulcast capabilities. So, you know, that you want to be sure this is where I say you really wanted to find your requirements so that you're sure you're buying appropriate infrastructure. Okay. Let me just say if they got the grant within their grant when they go to the exact procurement, they could more specify the radio type to make sure it's more versatile. Yes. I would think that it's probably I would think you probably have already done that. The radios are a lot easier than the the rate of the infrastructure to do. But the radio again, ideally, you know, if money wasn't a cost, I would recommend we go to the project 25 radio network. We are going to be a we are going to be a 25 project 25 compatible capable radio network or we won't be able to get federal dollars because that's fundamental to their grant requirements. So, you know, we always said we're going to the project 25 capable approach. But, you know, the most modern but a project 25 radio network also requires a more robust and expensive core element. So, there are higher costs associated with going with the, you know, the more the standard, the standardized technology. But what what you, you know, the idea of a simulcast, a conventional simulcast or an analog simulcast network meets your requirements. So, it wasn't, you know, we didn't propose something that was more elegant or more feature rich than you required. But if we had the money, I'd still like, I'd still recommend we go in that direction, but we don't need to at this stage of the game. We just need to get we just need to get to some finish line eventually. But while we're if indeed we went ahead and said yes, let's do this equipment RFP, and we get it done in the next 50 days from the time we say yes, then within that we start thinking more about the P 25s, etc. We get more specific on equipment. So, a lot of that conversation in detail happens within working with you on the equipment RFP. Yes, well, unfortunately, we've had a lot of those conversations, we just have to write it up and quantify it and be sure that we have requirements, you know, feature. Yeah, in the answer to the same that likewise, so within that work, some of that, maybe Brent Brian for the Montpelier acquisition could actually use some of that information. By the time the grant comes back and equipment gets ordered, it just to keep it connected. I don't know what what the chief has put together, but I'm sure it's it would have value. So, you know, if we write and when you write the section for the radios, you know, it's a matter of volume, you know, you're gonna say, you know, we're radios need to be capable of X, Y and Z and A, B and C and have these features. And, you know, the firefighter radios are different from law enforcement radios, they got to be intrinsically safe. And there's a variety of features that that law enforcement radios differ from firefighter radios. And so you you designate all those elements and you write that up so that you're getting a specification. A lot of things have been done. And this is nothing wrong with it. I mean, you know, the responding people, the people that run the radio networks, they kind of send an email, I said, I need this what I need. And, you know, that's, that's not if you have a vehicle already and you're able to buy from a vendor, you know, within a certain without going to a competitive bid, because you have an agreement with them, these things are done all the time, people just write a, you know, a short I need this can get down and get a quote for it. It's not uncommon. For the larger network, we recommend a more formal process so that you go to the market and get multiple bids that you can negotiate, you know, the best, best value for the region. Okay, just keep in mind police and far there are, they are different, though, with radios and frequency. All right, frequencies could be the same vendor radios though, which yes, yes, I understand that. But they wouldn't be a firefighter radius has to be intrinsically safe, because that means that they're used to the other they're involved in with water when they get wet and they get submerged. And so they, they have to have additional protections on them. And their knobs are typically bigger. And there's a right, there's some there, there are some differences in the radio themselves. Yes, ergonomics of them are different. Right. Doug, Brent, you have your hand up. Can you hear me now, Donna? Yes. So this, this conversation has been all over the place. And I want to just let you know, we also took part in the same grant process that Brian Pete did. This is a Homeland Security grant. I'm sure that Doug Hoyt could remember when he was in the job. I believe that I counted it up on the calendar. This grant process had a 19 day open to close process. This is not something that you could bring back to this committee or talk to another committee or find out from this group of people or that group of people. If you're going to do it, you had to pounce on it. And Brian did it for Montpelier. I did it for our fire department and and put in for some fire department radios, just like Rick said, we got the latest technology. We had to go out get prices according to the grant. We had to seek out three prices just like the grant says you need to do. And that's what we did. This didn't involve an RFP. We're not buying anything yet. In big bold print, it says, don't order anything. This does not mean you've been awarded a grant. Simply put in an application and that's what we did. That's what I did as part of my job description for the, as the fire chief for the city of Barrie. We have to be really careful of this because you know what they say a camel is, right? A camel is a horse that was designed by a committee. And we got to be really careful not to do that with this project. That's all I'll say. You did a good job, Doug, of clarifying it when it's presented to us as an RFP as opposed to the application process that you went through. Then even I can see the difference and I appreciate that and you're right. I've done them before. You do have very small windows. Thank you. I just want to thank Doug for that clarification. And I want to remind everybody that this is something that needs to be done. The camel isn't going to get any better if we fuss with it. Yes. And I would like to put in the sole surf scene in perspective because that definitely is where I'm favorable at is that we started with an RFP in 2019. That was huge. When we got three vendors came back at us and we realized we have to reduce the scope. And so we did the first phase as the need assessment. The second is procurement and then there would be a design, detail design and implementation. If we had remembered to put some silly, simple sentences in the contract with Tel Aviv, this is open to extension for phase two, then it wouldn't be considered sole sourcing. So I really would favor that we advance the RFP for the equipment and that we do sole source and award Tel Aviv the contract. Does the board like to entertain? I would entertain a motion if the board is so. Okay, Steven. Yes, it's your turn. Well, yes, but I wanted, I was the last board member to speak on my opinion. So I didn't mind. It's your turn, Steven. Okay, it's highly improper that the financial policy adopted by the authority says that anything over 20,000 must go out to bid. Unless there is only one place to get the service or product, there's clearly more than one place to get this product or service. So there's no ifs ands or buts about it though. It's only if you're buying a product you can't get from anybody else. Can you buy and rebuy from the same vendor? But it's highly improper to be giving this much airtime to a competing vendor that you haven't given to a solicitation to invite other proposers in, federal, interisle, whomever proposed before. So it's just really highly improper and there's no way you can stretch the sole source language of the charter or the financial policies to allow more than $20,000 to be awarded here. And there is now confusion between the taking out pieces that might be funded from the Homeland Security grants to no longer be within the work. Maybe the price will get down to $20,000, but I doubt it. And so I'm just saying that this much airtime for a competitor in a competitive bid process is highly improper and was likely to result in litigation. What's the board's pleasure? Steve McKenzie? Yeah, I guess I, again, I'm not a member of the board, but I react to Steve's comments that you are discussing how to go about your procurement, but you are not in a competitive bid process at this point in time. You're trying to decide whether to go there or not, but you're not in that process at this time and you're merely receiving input from Rick based on the past work that he's done for the district or for the authority. Thank you. Chair would entertain a motion. What are we looking for, Donna, for a motion? I mean, what do you want? The motion is to advance the acceptance of Televates RFP proposal to do equipment RFP and we'll do this allowing for sole source. All right, so this, this is, this is, I'm going to stagger on my words here. It's not a proposal to award anything to Televate. It's only to ask Televate or award to Televate to put together an RFP. No, they have put a proposal together to do an RFP on equipment coming out of the needs assessments of our phase one and it was attached to this agenda and it was given out last month also. Right, but it's not awarding, it's not awarding any funding to any provider of equipment. It's only awarding funding to Televate to do the work. To do, to do the equipment RFP to them would be used to get the equipment. Right, it would be awarding them the $29,714 contract that went with their proposal. So the other part of the issue is as far as, as far as Stephen is concerned is that it's $20,000 or more. Well, that's right and, and the board can decide to vote to sole source it and then award Televate the contract for the $29,000. But just to help me refresh my memory here, the board selected Televate to provide, provide the information and it had the opportunity to look at other vendors to provide this information. Yes, no? No, we, no, because, because we were doing work with Televate, we asked for him to give us a proposal to do an equipment RFP. So we never did an RFP and then they responded to it. We said, would you do this for us? And they did because the board said they wanted to go that next step of the engineering. We did the needs assessment. Step two was procurement and that we found when we went after grants, our grantors said we need more detail on the equipment. So this RFP is to give us more detail on the equipment to help us go talk people and to give us money. Okay, I guess I'd like to hear what Steve and Kim are going to say. Steve McKenzie? Well, I think Kim had his hand up first. Doug said he wanted to hear from somebody. Yeah, Steve and Kim, either one. I don't care if one goes first. Kim? I have a question for Rick. It seems to me you've done a lot of the work already in the sense that in your assessment and the cost estimates you gave, you had some idea of what was needed, the equipment and so forth to carry out the plan. Is that right? Yes, sir. Yeah, we visited sites and we quantified in order and our cost modeling of it, we had to integrate the numbers of and so that's how we came up with the cost estimate. Where we indicated that the numbers were soft were on the tower upgrades and the shelter upgrades. We couldn't specifically quantify if towers were stable, were they loading good, did they have sufficient loading for additional equipment and whether or not all the shelters were there. We also quantified the need for HVA systems. There's also another fundamental thing that we don't know but I suspect it's good and we're working in Stubendown County right now and they have to upgrade all their power systems. They don't have sufficient voltage at their towers so they're going to have to do that. There are certain things that you can't do without a deeper dive but the answer to your question is that we've identified the location of the sites and determined all the required radio equipment in order to come up with the budgetary quote that we provided. So you're partway done to your RFP. Well, yes, that information would get integrated into the RFP. Absolutely. Yeah, it has to be put in. Thank you. Steve McKinsey and then Jim. Yeah, so I'm going to pile on the MOA discussion and I do this to try to offer some help in terms but the term RFP, Request for Proposals, is generally used when you're soliciting quotations from consultants for professional services and developing, you know, responding to either scope of work or whatever. In this case, for better or for worse, Telev8 has prepared a response to your RFP, Request for Proposal, to prepare not RFPs but RFQs, Request for Quotes. You're asking for, you're asking for Telev8 to prepare, to obtain, to develop specifications and a bid package to get quotes from vendors. Yes. And I put that out there to maybe help provide some clarity as to the use of the terms. Okay. Jim, what's the next one? I have a question for Steve, which actually, I had it before, you just made your comments, but that's exactly what I was thinking. It sounds like what they're writing is our respects. But my question to you, Steve, is as a professional engineer and not a city manager, does Rick or Telev8 have a unique body of knowledge right now that better suits them to write these specifications because they did the previous research? And is that something that carries some weight in terms of the analogy of Request for Proposals and bids and so forth? I would say the answer to that question is yes. They have inherent or institutional knowledge, if you will, of the particular of the project, if you will, and the direction by virtue of the work they've already done already. So that gives them a technical advantage, if you will. Well, I look at, I was just thinking the other way, not an advantage to them, but a disadvantage to us if we're bringing someone in that doesn't already have these. Yes, I mean, what that advantage endures to the public safety authority. In some respects, one could say they don't have a learning curve that another competitor might have to account for cost wise, if you will, in a proposal or whatever. But I'm going to say something now that will probably cause you all to groan. And I don't do it to cause problems, but I'm trying to do it as an objective observer. I think your purchasing policy, if that's what it is, is pretty clear. It says that the authority will shall solicit bids for purchases over $20,000. The policy doesn't seem to allow a little a lot, I'll say a lot, or if not for any wiggle room to do something differently. And I know that's not what you want to hear. And I don't want to disfavor, tell evade, but I'm trying to just offer my insight as let's say an outside observer. And I know that puts tell evade at a competitive disadvantage, if the board chooses to go out for RFPs. And unfortunately, this is probably the discussion that should have been had at the time of entertaining a sole source to tell evade before they put together their proposal. And I apologize for being the skunk at the party, but hopefully you take the input with a good faith that's intended. I perceive different wiggle room, but I appreciate your opinion, Steve. Thank you. If the board doesn't want to continue this discussion, just say so. I appreciate that. You're going to go out to bid, then you're going to have to have a committee to make an RFP, because we didn't make an RFP to get this proposal. The board asked me to find out what it would cost. So I asked elevate, what would it cost? Well, that's an interesting comment, because depending on how you frame that RFP, it may be somewhat different than what Rick and Tel Aviv have put together based on their perhaps general understanding of the request at the time. So Tel Aviv could... We have no staff, Steve. We have no staff. I hear you. I hear you. It took us forever to do the other one. I mean, from 2018 forward, to do the one that we finally broke down to make it three parts. That's fine. That's the board's pleasure, but I think it just stops us in this tracks. It's either we do something or we don't. I hear you, Donna. That wasn't my intent when I said that. Yeah, no. I'm just telling you where I'm coming from. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. It comes back to the board. There's no motion, then we should just move on. Okay. So we are going to tell... No, no, no, no, no. I would like to make a motion for the purposes of discussion. No, I don't. Not that we haven't had enough already, but now we're getting to the point where we're going to either put the pain on the wall or not. Okay. All right. So I would like to move that we would move forward with awarding, tell of it with the contract to provide Public Safety Authority with the material for RFPs. RFQs. RFQs, right. That's what I meant to say. Is there a second to that? Kim, are your mouths moving? Are you talking? I said I would second it for discussion purposes. Thank you. All right. We have a motion to award, tell of it with a contract to provide Public Safety Authority with the materials for an RFQ. Equipment RFQ? No, just RFQ. Okay. Further discussion? The only consideration I have is our system really needs to move forward. And if we're talking about a grant, there's going to be further processes to... There's going to have to be competitive bids to put this thing together. So all things said and done, I would dug Brent. I think people need to get this done. There's public safety and I think there's enough fuzz about the policy so I can live with the voting in favor of the motion. Any other board discussion? Jim? I just had one question going back to the question of well, we can have a soul bidding on it. When we did the original study, we had two proposals on that. Were those proposals, did they include all three phases for each one of them? We had three the initial and then two came back when we broke it down and one was totally unaffordable. As well as we, when we did different interviews, we felt very strongly that we felt for the Vermont size, we get more attention from Tel Aviv. Well, my question is, did both of the proposals that we had, and I remember having them, I forget the name of the other company, but... Federal engineers or something. Right. Did both proposals include the needs assessment and then I think there was an engineering phase and then there was the RFP development. They came, we put it in as one scope of work and they came back saying, whoa, it's really this. And when we said, wow, we don't have that kind of money, then they said they could break it up and we selected to go with the needs assessment. So the proposal for the RFP part of it has actually already been sent out to Modem, Tel Aviv. In the broadest terms, that was in 2019. I'm just saying that we're essentially saying, okay, we bought half a loaf, now we're going back and buying the other loaf. We shouldn't have to go to a whole new grocery store. Well, that's why there was a lot of contingency statement in this contract that we might ought to do the next phase. We missed it. We missed it. I think we're just looking for something to be able to hang our hat on. Are we blatantly violating the bylaws or is there some justification for it? And I'm inclined to say that, and I know this is not specifically the motion on the table right now, but Tel Aviv certainly has a leg up on the knowledge of the system. And I'm not sure someone coming in at this stage of the game trying to be a competitive price would be able to do the homework to arrive where they are now. And secondly, I think this was contemplated in the original proposal. But so anyway, that's I'm comfortable going with Tel Aviv. All right. Any further discussion from the board? Yeah, I'm just waiting to speak. Stephen, you shared your opinion. It's board discussion. No. Point of order, Madam Chair, there is a motion on the floor and the discussion has ended public comment. I will tie it up in litigation and I assure you if you proceed without adhering to your policy, I will tie it up in litigation. And you will undermine the purpose of this. Stephen, you have no no interaction here, please. Anything else from the board? All right, all in favor. I'm just trying to find the, could I have just second, I'm trying to find the sole source. If the board of directors determines there is only one possible source for a proposed purchase it may waive the bid process and authorized purchase from the sole source. Right, right. We've heard that several times. Yep. Okay, well I wanted to look at the words and I don't think we, I can't say that there's only one possible source. So I think we should have a bit. I'm changing my mind now that I've read the policy. Well, everybody will vote the way they want to vote. All those in favor say aye. I sound like we're going to have a roll call vote anyway, so let's just do a roll call. Doug? Yes. Justin? He's muted. Sorry. No. Kim? Jim? Yes. And Donna is yes. It's three to two. It passes. Okay, so next. Thank you all for being so appreciative of lots of questions, lots of good information, and Rick, thank you for being here. It's really essential to have your information. Thank you. Next we have on our agenda is Jim's presentation. And Donna, could you please mute. Yeah, I just have to go to another screen and I lose you. So Jim, let me get your, you work to get your system up. Supposedly I've authorized you to share. And I see your screen down there. So good. Anyway, what I'd like to do is to make a request for $3,995 to help buy a training prop that Barry City has been raising some money to buy. They've raised roughly $3,000 now to buy a training prop that I had originally started the fundraiser and got some money from a local bank. And the proposal was to have this training prop for the area fire departments. But before I get into the specifics of it, I just wanted to preface the request with some comments on the recent budget vote. We really don't have a huge amount to show for what some of them are public safety authorities done over eight years in terms of tangible, concrete, specific things that we can say that we've actually accomplished. I realize this is a terrific radio study that was done. But if that ends up sitting on a shelf collecting dust, unfortunately, it doesn't do the firefighters any good. It doesn't do the police officers any good. It doesn't do the taxpayer any good. But yet a voter has approved our budget by an overwhelming margin. So that tells me that in general, the voters are still interested in pursuing something in the regional public safety arena. So with that in mind, I think we need to push the reset button a little bit. Realize that our first attempts were unsuccessful and come up with a slightly different plan to move forward with whatever regional cooperation we can accomplish. So to that goal, I think we need to be able to set some long term goals, but as well as some short term goals, we need to be able to get some points on the scoreboard to say that we've accomplished stuff. There's a terrific effort being made for this radio system, and it really is needed, but it's a long term goal. And I think we need something that people can can put into the narrative that they have accomplished this already. And to that, I think we need to start doing some things immediately that gives value to the first responders for what we're doing. I thought that Brent's resignation pointed out that the need to have public safety people more involved with the board. I think we need to do some reorganization, restructuring of the board to have some more people, public safety people involved in it. If we don't have public safety people on our side, this will never work. I was involved in killing a regional ambulance proposal when I worked for Berrytown. They had an eight town plan, and I won't go into all the details of how we made it fail, but they didn't have the public safety people behind the ones that were doing the work in Berrytown. They didn't have us behind them. And so we worked real hard to have it not happen. So I think there's some lessons to be learned there. But what I'm proposing is that we start doing things that the public safety people will recognize as being worthwhile. And that's why I'm suggesting that we fund the peaceful equipment to Berry City. Fire Department is looking to obtain it's something that can be used by all fire departments in the area, but certainly specifically by Montpelier and Berry City. It's also something that the police department can use. So with that, I will see if I can figure out how to make this thing work. Well, it didn't bring up what I was hoping it to bring up. It didn't bring up my YouTube channel, so I thought it was funny. Push share, I thought I was going to bring that up. Let me see if I can figure out. If you bring that up on your screen before you try to share it and then go to share. Well, I don't know. When I watch the video on it today, you push share and it'll bring the stuff up that was already on your screen. But let me just bring, well, I have my YouTube stuff up. Let's see if that plays. Can you see that? No. Is there any playing on there? It doesn't sound like you're seeing anything. You're not seeing anything, right? Did I lose you? Nope. We can hear you. We can see you. You're not seeing any video then, right? No. So when you hit shared screen, does your screen come up? Let me try it now, see if I... You think the word you were looking for, Donna, is desktop? Thank you. The desktop screen. Yeah. When I hit shared screen, it just brings up something totally different. So anyway, I will... Well, whatever it brings up, you might look at some sub branch of it and you might find it. Yeah. No, no. Is it the shared screen at the bottom of the... Well, that's all right. Zoom page or it's shared screen on the bottom of the YouTube page. That's a bottom. It's funny because it's running because I can hear it, but let me just see if it's... Make a suggestion. Yeah. I'll just send it to you guys, but the prop is a forceable entry prop. It's a great big steel frame door that's designed for training firefighters on how to force doors with the very specific tools that they have. The video that I wanted to show you was not only of the tool, but was of a fire that they took over two minutes to be able to get in the front door with the fire coming out of the second floor window. It may seem like a simple skill, but it's something that needs to be practiced. And there's very specific methods that are used. This is something every fire department around here does not get anyone near the practice that they need because unfortunately when you practice forceable entry, you have to damage something. This is designed that it has a replaceable component that gets broken and that the forcing the entry, but it just gets replaced. It's a piece of 2x4. It also has an attachment on it that is used by the police department for doing battery ram entrances. I know the no-knock search forms are kind of something in a question, but there's still situations where they still have to force the door to get in. And they have little different needs. When we open a door, we want to control where that door goes because it lets oxygen into the fire. Police officers, as I understand it, it also has to do with whether they do it in front of the door or to the side of the door. But police officers want that door to open up to be able to see immediately what's right behind. So it's a very different technique, but this tool or prop works for both. So I think this would be a very small gesture that we spent some money on some dispatch training, but this would be a tool that would immediately get the attention of the firefighters in the area and hopefully the police officers as well that says, well, maybe there are some areas that we can expand into that some of them are public safety authority can expand into, that we can start some conversations and start working together on other areas that may not have any contentious issues or require that to find difficult funding and grants and so forth. So I'm asking that $3995 be provided to be combined with the funds of the Berry City Fire Department. It's actually Berry City Fireman's club. I think that's who's holding the money right now so that we could buy the prop and this would be something that would be transportable between the departments or discussing it with the Berry City Chief that they would be able to come over and use it in our building. That was their choice. And what's the full cost of the prop? You said that I got the amount you wanted to request. Yeah, it's $7,000. It's in $7,000 to get the exact specific number, but roughly $7,000. I wish I could have played that video. Have the various Chiefs said they would use this? Two or three of them are on with us right now. We can ask them. Chief Brent, do you think this is a worthwhile piece of equipment to get? Justin's got his hand ups. Maybe we'll go there and then maybe Brent will join. Go ahead, Justin. I'm just curious if this is something, I think it's a really good idea. I think Jim's point about being able to show that we're doing something and assuming this is going to be used across the region. This is what we exist for. The only thing I would say is maybe we could send out the video and vote on it next week so we have time to ruminate and just make it a really quick discussion next month. I guess the only concern I have is to have the understanding that everyone is going to have thought about it and have their votes ready and we can just have a vote next time. You know what I mean? So we're going to jam up our agenda. Okay. Doug Hoyt, your hands up. I agree with what Justin said. Jim, if you could send out the link so that we all can look at it. But I guess I would also, keeping in mind of our fiduciary responsibility, get some sort of something in writing that identifies what the item is, how much it costs, and where it's going to go and who's going to use it so that when we get challenged by somebody, at least we'll have some written record. I mean, you never know, you never know where these challenges are going to come from. Donna, I think I've got a connection when you're ready for me. Oh, great. Yes, go ahead, sir. By all means, any of these training props are more than necessary. The one that we've been using in the past few years, we get in the lower part of the state of Vermont, we have to send somebody down to pick it up, bring it back, and then we have to bring send somebody down to take it back when we're done. And certainly having something like this available to the area would be very useful. Okay, so we're going to put this on the agenda for next for April. And meanwhile, Jim's going to try to distribute it. And if not, we'll work out the technique technical difficulties and make sure we can show it next month. Thank you, Jim. Thank you. Thank you all for staying. We're like, oh, 45 minutes over time. And we need to talk about the OMPA meeting law violations. Steve has, I thought was filed one, but it turns out there's actually two. And one is the minutes of February public safety authority board meeting was not posted within 10 days. It was an unintentional error. I just, I finally got them from Brent, and then I forgot about them. So I did get them posted. The orcas recording gets online about three days. It's like it's a Thursday meeting. It's posted by next Monday. So that was there, but the minutes were not. So I would definitely say it was unintentional error. And the correction would be to ensure that doesn't happen again. A transition between Brent being secretary and right now me filling in. I really need somebody to be secretary. And is there any volunteers even just between now and next six months, you know, a little window? Justin, is that a volunteer? Do it. And I'm going to hate every second of it, but I will do it because you do a lot of work, Donna. Okay, great. Getting them posted is the thing. It's really, yeah. Okay. I just need somebody, Donna, let's just connect this week. And you just give me a quick tutorial about the things that I need to do. Okay. Okay. Terrific. Thank you. And now the other piece of the opening all validation that I got on this second was a link to the download of the video. I don't have a link to the download. We post all of our recorded meetings is orcas and they're posted on the YouTube channel. I know that there have been some meetings. It turns out I only found out today that Brent had been recording on Zoom and giving Steve a copy, but it has not been anything posted to the public. And the idea of having a public record is that it's available to the public. And Orca is the one that we depend on to do that. So that was there. Now, there was another one that I got just Monday, appealed to the head of the agency. So at that point, Stephen is insisting that we change the mode of the copy of the meeting so that he can download it. And the statute says of on request, the custodian of the public records shall promptly produce the record for inspection or a copy of the record. This custodian has a choice to produce a record for inspection or a copy of the record. And we have the record for inspection posted through Orca recording is made for them. I don't have the capacity to take Orcas recording and do anything with it. And I don't think we have to. If the board agrees with that and you feel that indeed this has meant the meeting of the law, then a motion would be to accept that indeed the request for public records copy of the video was denied because they were given the option to have an inspection of the record by going online to YouTube. I want to speak to this Donna. Yes, yes, Stephen go right ahead. So the your I believe you're misreading or misinterpreting the law. Anyone is allowed to ask for a copy of a record. And this is a record created in the course of agency business. And it's the requesters option, not the producers option of whether a copy or inspection only. And the fact that YouTube does not allow downloads that can be played offline means that and I despite what you informed the board that Orca said that Brent recording interfered with their recording. I confirmed that that was untrue. It was a flat out lie and that Orca encouraged us to make a backup recording or have Brent make a backup recording in case their recording fails. That's why I asked you to make a recording tonight. And I've just filed another open meeting violation because you refuse to make a recording tonight. So I I'm I've had my wit's end with your uh flagrant violations of law. Uh well I was advised one is that when whatever format you have your recording in you do not have to change that to another format. And that I indeed do not have a place to store all these recordings are zoom account has a very limited storage. And that's the wonderful thing about Orca is that all of that gets stored online. It's there. I don't have the capacity on my computer. I don't want to be the custodian of a second copy. And therefore I've been advised by Vermont League that says produce it in the form it is in. I don't have to change that format. Now what happened was I never said Brent couldn't copy the zoom. I was told when I started the zoom late in the meeting I cut off Orca and they told me not to start zoom. That's what they told me. They told Brent something else. They told Brent something else. I can't I can only tell you what they told me the time that I ruined their recording. So if the board wants somebody to make copies of zoom and store it can be the custodian forever and ever then fine otherwise we have used Orca and that's what I would prefer. Yes Jim. Madam chair I believe you've met the legal burden and I move that we go on to the next agenda. Well I believe because this appeal was to the head of the agency the board has to make a motion. Donna couldn't you upgrade the zoom account so you can make a recording and just because I know some people do. But that's not enough. You still have to perceive and you have to go and make another copy. You can't deal with it in the format it's in. And then the zoom account doesn't become open to everybody. That's the other problem with it. You have to give everybody access to it. And the whole idea of a public record is everybody not just Stephen has access. Anyone who wants to copy you can send the link and they can download the copy and it's not it's not complicated at all. We've done it. A lot of things aren't complicated and you can ask for but that's not the standard of public records. That's the board if the board wants to do zoom and somebody wants to take it over go right ahead. I'm not going to be the custodian. I'm not going to be in charge of it. I'm unclear of the technology. I thought I thought if this meeting we could have pressed record and anybody could look for that. No you have to give them access. It goes into your account. Not everybody can get into your account thank heavens. You have to give them access versus if it's on Orca. Orca does it. You go to YouTube. You just type in on YouTube CVPSA minutes and you get all sorts of minutes. You can even put the exact day in and it'll pop up. It's right there. I need a technical education I guess to vote on this. Okay okay I'll follow up with that. That's fine. Did you say that Orca provides what they do not? Orca provides it. They're right here. They record and they post it within the five days like our meetings on Thursday. It's usually posted on Monday if not before and it's posted in YouTube. It's open to everybody. So what's the problem? Steven wants to download it and for a YouTube you can't download it. That's what he says. I have never tried so I don't know. She can take YouTube and you can identify that video and recall it any time that you want to. Yeah. Yeah. Which is what I did to my videos but I couldn't find them. Yeah. That was because of the Zoom. I can find it right off the Zoom. Maybe again it's late so everybody think about that right now. Orca is our recorder. It's a recorder for the city council. It's quite adequate. Is there anything else on the agenda? If you want to manage a Zoom account Brent now has it and the official one tonight I'm using mine. Brent has the official account that can be housed somewhere else. If somebody wants to volunteer to do that electronically smart then you can do that. Doug you got your hand up. I'm sorry I missed you. No I just barely put it up. Okay. In the interim can you get something in writing from the Vermont League regarding this issue on record? Oh there has been about putting anything in writing but I will try to make it there. I'll try to do as best I can with lots of direct quotes for sections. Well if they can't or won't can you get it from the Secretary of State? You want to say that Orca is enough? Is that what you want them to say? Yes. What do you want them to say? I want to say what it is that we're doing or not doing that interferes with Mr. Whitaker getting this. Well getting the download he wants a specific thing. What are our obligations and are we meeting those obligations? Well what they told me was we do not have to change the format. And so right now the format is in a YouTube video and not in a MP4 that Steven wants. Yeah MP4 recording. Isn't that what I said? I think Doug's got a good idea. Let's get it in writing. Okay I don't think they'll do it in writing. Okay if the league won't do it then the Secretary of State's office I'll be able to do it. Okay they'll advise but they won't put it in writing I don't believe but I'll ask. How do you advise without putting it in writing? They talk to you. They give you advice. They're not your individual lawyer like your lawyer you pay for and you get an individual statement of law. They advise. Okay I will seek more information. I will seek more information. We're just trying to abide by the law and to put this in rest that's all. I don't do it. Somebody. I move we adjourn. Okay. Oh no I want to stay. Unless there's any objections we will adjourn by unanimous consent. Thank you all for your attention. Good night. Good night.