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We're running a sale maps hit and the NoBS six-pack formula both 50% off You can sign up for them at maps fitness products dot com Just use the code July special with no space for the discount By the way, if you sign up for the NoBS six-pack formula, you'll get a coupon code emailed to you So you can buy an ab wheel at 50% off the normal price. So again, it's awesome. All right, enjoy this podcast This is how I wanted to open this anyways and share a story about you and my first impression of meeting you So I don't even remember how we originally got connected and how I do you do yes So tell me how we originally connected now. Are we on already or no? Yeah, we're going okay so we met originally because I believe I had a book out at the time that Jen some Jennifer Bhutiani called was was helping me with press with that book or something and she called you Okay, and not you or like my pump I didn't even know who you guys were at the time and I think you guys That's how it happened and like I needed to have like some like fitness PR to help push this book All right, and that's how she called it I think you were kind of not when I say you I mean the mine pump media You you you you mostly probably you Justin now that I saw that whole bold in the statement There's a compliment people proceed Like boldness Still I'm gonna prove you wrong today Same as the we're just mentioning about you know what so anyway, so she Contacted you guys. I think you guys were kind of on the fence because you didn't know who I Okay, so that's exactly where I remember it right so I don't I don't remember who did what and I just remember it came across My desk at one point. I briefly kind of looked at the book And I'm like who's this girl and I you must have had somebody really good on your team doing this because to be Completely honest at first glance it wouldn't be enough to have me invite you on the show We hardly have anybody on the show as it is. Yeah, so normally I'm looking for something very specific We thought ah hell what's let's let's do this Let's meet her and let's see at least me and we don't have to air it if we don't like her We won't right So that was the attitude. It's like yeah, fuck it whatever, you know, we'll see and we end up of course loving you and having a great Conversation, but what I wanted to share with the audience that I thought was just so so amazing And what I think has been so fun to watch is I mean we have this podcast we meet for the first time It's dynamic. We have a great conversation We learn a lot about each other for the first time then afterwards you and I sit and talk business for probably an hour Maybe more afterwards and I remember you looking at me going like I'm gonna go start a podcast Yeah, I'm gonna go start a podcast and you're like throwing ideas at me and I think I'm gonna do this I think I'm gonna do that. I'm like who is this girl, right? I mean you immediately after it and I'm like this chick is crazy and then like maybe two weeks later You called me said, okay, I'm doing it. I have a couple names. What do you think of this or what do you think of that? And like yeah, I was like, okay. I like that. That's I think it's a good idea Still wondering is this girl really gonna follow through and do this and sure as shit. I mean, it's not even months later I see big interviews popping up with you and so I'm like, where the fuck did she come from? Oh my god, every time we're like, how did she get these guests? She just started her podcast Yeah, so impressed and of course I should know better because I got a chance to meet you and then you very much So are like that right just and I I I value that that characteristic a lot the ability to Befriend people be a chameleon in any sort of a room or environment Very likable You are very blunt and forward, which I love radical honesty like that's a big core value of ours. So Instantly hit it off. I've been so impressed to watch your journey into the podcasting space and to watch you crush Something you pretty much just learned how to do pretty much, right? So I would love to talk about just entrepreneurship in general and and what it's like building building the the Empire that you're building right now Wow, what a beautiful introduction. I'm gonna I'm gonna fly out here all the time Do you guys want an extra do you need a girl at best part? Hey, maybe maybe? Oh my gosh Well, that's a loaded question. First of all, I'd like to say that Being underestimated is a really great thing sometimes Because it will you could either use that as fuel for yourself or as an excuse and I just choose to use that as fuel It's always fueled me as either pain has can fuel you That type of underestimating and so I've never ever let that do anything beyond that And so if I put something out there then I feel I'm accountable, right? So if I say to you okay, I'm gonna do this podcast for example or whatever it is. I feel like oh shit It's out there. I'm gonna have to now Make it happen, right? Because then I want to I want to be true to my core belief also, which is like authenticity honesty being true to myself and so it helps me actually persevere so I was actually when I remember having that conversation with you and I actually remember on the podcast Throwing out like some stupid names like should it be like genspiration or fitsperation and like all these like wonky wacky things and I remember it was not that I was like strategic But I remember before I even started talking about it that in my brain I'm like I am gonna bring it up because that will enforce and make me Persevere and go through with it that much more if it's out there So it's funny that you actually remember that and of course So talk about the skills and in habits and behaviors needed to because it's first off It's intimidating to start from scratch and then say I'm gonna go talk to like you said earlier George Clooney or a Celebrity or somebody that you know, how am I gonna get this person on my show? I don't have I've just started my show I don't have tons of downloads Who am I like but that never stops you and that seems to be the story of your life What are the skills that you you need to develop in order to do that to go and just make that should happen because it's pretty crazy Well, I think it's interesting because you guys know we were just saying this before we actually maybe started to roll is That you know if you come from the fitness business, right people like tend to like compartmentalize that That if you are good in one area, then that means you have to stay in that You can't be a fitness person but also be a good business person or be a good strategist or have Multiple things that you can be good at right? Which could then be like a chameleon. So I think first of all, that's always been like the story I was never a fitness person that did all other things and that's just one of the things that I've done But to really be more specific to what you were saying We're to what you're asking me is how what's the skills the skill is the skill of Practice really an action. I think that's like at the end of the day what it is, right? Like I don't think that there really is a skill it's just learning how to do something and then not and I guess like getting past the the fear barrier or like the I don't know barrier because What you do is like you figure out what you want to do and then what you what you need to learn to be able to Do it and then you just act right and you start you just act as if and you just do it So I feel like over time. I've never really maybe been good at anything until I decided I wanted to do it And then I just kind of you know, just went into it. I didn't like think as much as I Leaped I leaped before I thought so to speak. So what is that? What is what is the the conversation in your head sound like like when you you know, you don't want to know I do want to know I am I'm very curious to what that I because I mean I have my own probably mantras and chants I say to myself I have to love to be the underdog and so what when you say, okay, I'm gonna throw this out there I'm gonna put it out in the ether. I know my personality. I'm gonna commit to it But oh fuck where do I go from here? Or what what's the what's the conversation going on in the head when you're when you're about to you know? Pursue something that you don't know a lot about yet I think what I like to do is find people around me that are really good at what what I don't know so I like to surround myself with I like to be the most stupid person around or the most Or the most curious I get or a very curious person and really kind of like target laser focus on people who are really good At what I want to do and like glean from them So I think that's been one of the things I do I I've done very well and that's if that would be my superpower It's not so much that I'm so like I said that I'm so good at something but I'm good at Lasering in on somebody who is really good at that and then gleaning that information or learning from them and Kind of using it as a building block I think that's number one and like you know like what what goes around go in my like in my head I think like what's the worst that can happen? So if I fail so I try again like you know the reality is like no Out there like you're always a harder critic like you're harder on yourself at anybody else No one really gives a fuck at the end of day, right? They're so preoccupied with themselves We think that others care, but they really don't there's soup There's what they're way too preoccupied with themselves so at the end of the day if I fail Okay, so I'll get up and try again like you know I talk a lot about making ten attempts in life right like in my whole philosophy is that if you if you have the mindset of okay I don't I don't plan or I don't I don't expect to win the first time But I'll give myself these ten attempts more often than not You'll either get one of those at you'll either get the goal or another opportunity will present itself that you never even knew existed So a lot of times what my actual goal is or was I never actually ended up getting it But a whole other door open that I didn't even know even was there that took me down a whole other path that Would like that that helped me elevate to something else So like everything they're like everything is like like building blocks like this long strand and That's really what it is more than anything in my early 20s. I read a book that Said that the the average millionaire failed nine times before they were successful. So similar When I read that I then began Obsessed being obsessed about getting to my ten failures right there So I had so you saying that like totally resonates with me because I remember reading that and being like well shit If the if that's what these millionaire billionaires have failed that many times. I'm a young 20 year old I've only failed once I need to hurry up and get my 10 under my belt so I can be successful So I think one that's one strategy that I think is so important You you went over something really quick too and that is Making peace with the worst outcome like knowing that hey, I'm about to get into something I have no clue about that's okay I'm gonna attach myself to people that are doing a great job at it and what's the worst that's gonna happen What I fail I lose a couple bucks. I burn a couple days like whatever I can I can serve if you make peace with the worst Outcome it's much easier to step in the fire. It's also it's also you said something about You know that you'll either get to your goal or some other door is gonna open. It's like Knowing that you don't know all the potentials that are gonna happen and being okay with that knowing that the potentials Are gonna be great at the end of it Do you have an example of a time that happened to you where you just tried tried tried and then it turned into something else? And I will say also just to add to that out there is a million examples But another thing I was gonna say is I think you know one of my big fears in life actually is Not living my life and not self-actualizing to what I think I can be so that's more of a fear than the rejection of Of not getting something so I I'll put myself out there over and over again for rejection If that means that at least I made that attempt at least I made that try So I won't look back in in regret because I think rejection is always better than regret in life, right like to me Anyway, everyone has their own thing or their own path But for me that regret is like gut wrenching when did you get over read because that is actually not common at all It's even less common in in females is because guys are used to being rejected. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. No, it's a true stat Yeah, it's actually a true stat. Yeah, that's reps that that man are used to being turned down told no And so we tend to be a little more resilient with that It's a less common trait in women Do you do you remember when you were younger like when you started to piece that together like that? Who cares if they tell me no who cares if they don't like I don't give a shit Like when did you when did you start to put that together? I think because maybe I got so like Rejected so many times in like certain like certain things in my life that it became like maybe I it I kind of had that same Quality that the guys had not like not even so much in like relationships or like boys or whatever But just in like things I would try like I don't think I was a I was a terrible student So that really didn't like pan out for me Well, you know, I tried to get into this like dance company that I all my friends got into and I Was the only one rejected, you know, I mean I could name so that's what I'm saying I could name a million things but there at so I think I became so comfortable with it because Like it wasn't a practice that I wanted to be It just happened that I started to like bounce off like it became like that's why you know in the in the boldness Ted talked that I talk about I say like people should practice this like idea of Rejection or asking for what they want because if you practice on these little things it compounds over time where it becomes like second nature Where it doesn't affect you as much to dedicate your brain doesn't Process it as the same type of rejection as it would have processed it the first or second or third or a hundredth time Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I like what you said about rejection versus regret. I feel like regret is Last a long time and oh my gosh, I could have done that and instead of like regret is unknown like rejection One other thing about you is that you're really good at fostering Relationships with people I noticed this about you just with how you are with me and with us But even when I went down to visit you and do your podcast I could see how you talk to the people around you and the people you work with and then we were talking about and I'm not gonna call out any names fellow podcasters who you've worked with and that you provided help to and then they don't return The favor and you're like this terrible relationship building this person's a terrible business person We have this whole conversation like how important is building the those relationships around you to success? And what does that look like? Well, I think they're very important. I think that it's about first of all It's very nice of you to say. So thank you I think I'm just I think that I build relationships well and I think again anyone could do that by I think being Genuinely curious about other people or other things in life and and being interested, right? I think the worst thing for you're not interested and you become it life becomes boring, right? Like I genuinely like am interested. I would get teased all the time even like now And my I would always ask why all the time like and then like I had everyone being like when I was younger like why why why? Because like no matter what someone said to me I'd ask well, why well, why is that why I just always had like a like a Like a genuine curiosity if I didn't know something or I want to know everything about you and like like literally everything I still do I want to know everything about you Justin I want to know everything about you because I know nothing about you like I want to know until I will ask he's really boring actually So the whole boldness thing like is a compliment because what I've talked about with Sal and like how I first met him He has this ability to have the self-confidence and he just you know Like he believes in himself like really strongly and I admire that about him And and that's something I saw in you in terms of like how you present yourself and like you're carrying yourself in a certain way where Like I suffer from an imposter syndrome And so this is something where I've had to work through all of that and like Have really tried to build myself back up to be able to portray myself in a certain way to have like this type of You know confidence that comes through in my speak or have opinions and really like you know Come out with it and face that rejection But it seems like you know you've been able to kind of put it out there Receive it just keep molding and shifting towards what's coming at you. So it was a compliment at the end of the day No, I just tease you. I'm curious. So why did you have see why again? See I'm gonna be teasing it Why did you have imposter syndrome and how did you get over it? Again all this stuff kind of stands from your childhood. I think and just the way that you Listen and bring in opinions from other people and work your way through that and so for me it was It was a lot of self-talk I had to do in order to get me Thinking of myself in a more positive light and so it's just again this is this is something that was more of a childhood thing that I had to get myself out of an environment where I was getting a lot of negativity and a lot of insulting type of you know Comments and things my way. So I Internalize that a lot and I my my chip on my shoulder was that I'm gonna prove everybody wrong Yeah, and I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do I'm gonna get my college degree, you know, like if people don't think I'm smart enough Well, I'm gonna show them like this was like a chip. I've carried on my shoulders forever And so that's just my story but I you know, it's interesting though that you're saying this right now is because if you really kind of like look at You know very successful entrepreneurs are very successful people in general in life The through line with all of them is that they all seem to carry that same chip on their shoulder They've all had some type of negative Kind of experience growing up like where even like look at Elon Musk, right? Like his dad would say to him that you're an idiot You're not going to amount to much a much much and that pushed him propelled him fueled him So to speak to become who he was Michael Jordan in his life in his last in that speech he did it though I don't know what the The first thing he said was to all those haters and self-doubt You know he did and because but most people to look look at I did too like about when people don't respond to me I it takes you right back to that time in your life when you felt shame and Pain and embarrassment because someone someone like just didn't you know treat you well or they they had doubt in you Or they called you stupid or you're working on mount too much I still have the same person in my ear like you said you have the person's in person in your when I was little I remember when I was in like height in junior high We had this like resource teacher or like guidance counselor teacher and he was like mrs. Raisin So she's listen if she is listening this goes to you You know when you take those tests at school I'm can't a placement test or whatever I don't know what they are like you're I was in Canada or whatever and like the Canadian version of them And I remember like when I did my test it came back that like I was gonna be like a forest ranger now Not to say that it's a bad thing to be a forest ranger I don't want to get like hate mail through you, but like that's what it said and I was like I'm never in the forest. I don't count like it has nothing to do with who I am as a person What the fuck is this and so she like literally said to my mom. She's like I'm sorry You know, I know you have these like, you know, I would I really would kind of measure your expectations when it comes to Jennifer I don't think she's gonna go to like college and she's gonna be like a you know You should just kind of like keep your temper your Expectations because I come from a Jewish family everyone's a doctor and a lawyer and this and that very education super important And I remember she just and she was so condescending like she always treat even as like a small kid She was very condescending and so I still think of that damn This is raisin to this day when I like go and like and like do something So I feel like not to like drone on and on but I feel like just in me anybody I feel like that a lot Elon Musk. There's a lot of there's a lot of magic there Yeah, there's a lot of power and magic that you're reading a book in Patrick bed David gets into that in that book of but here's that here's here's the the fine line there, right? So I agree with you and at one point and it'd be interesting to know of where this happened for you and your journey You learn to not identify with that or or feel like I am that person But I'm gonna use that as fuel to power me beyond this So that's the dance I think that's the real dance of the success will be the successful people go I ain't I'm not that dummy and I'm gonna but I'm gonna use that to to Motivate me, but I'm also not gonna let that get in creep in and self-talk and calm myself a dummy or make me have a dysfunctional relationship with business or people because I'm so driven by this insecurity, but rather It's fuel and it's healthy fuel. I also think would happen. Yeah, you can use it either as an excuse You can go it can take you to two different ways, right as an excuse and that takes you down a bad road or as fuel But I think what's also interesting is when you use it as fuel and you do it that way a lot happens in that process I think that what happens is you start evolving and changing where yeah Like you remember like mrs. Raisin or whoever it is Michael whoever anyone is but yet like it's it's changing the neuroplasticity somewhat in your brain as you're acting where that becomes you're changing to a new person a new version of your well Let me ask you this because Here's my opinion on it right is that it's a very important skill to take something negative and then flip it into something That becomes something positive. I think that's just an important skill period But I think you also have to learn to be a growth-minded person In order for that to happen what I mean by that is Some people are not growth-minded in the sense that they think this is me. I'm never gonna get better I can never be smarter or I could never do any of those things This is my genetics or this is society or whatever outside force nothing can change One thing and we all have this in common in this room is we all had careers in fitness and you actually alluded to this in the beginning of the podcast Fitness teaches you to be growth-minded because you can't stick with it and not be growth-minded You suck when you do it at first. You're trying to get stronger You're trying to get more fit you get over the rejection and you practice and you continue to work on So you just become growth-minded through that process was did fitness do that for you? And was that what the catalyst that combined the two that took you to the next level or to just add to something that you had already built? No, absolutely I think that that's exactly what I was saying at the beginning is that Fitness and that's why I find it very interesting that a lot of people also have some kind of like Dabble or play in the fitness space because of all the things that it taught It made me mentally strong because once I saw myself getting physically strong and it happened by accident So when I didn't get into that dance company, you know that I try out for and I got rejected for and all my friends We're now going to this dance thing. I'm like, well, what am I gonna do? so I started going to like the local gym instead and You know, it happens so like so like Incrementally like it was like you don't even notice it until all of a sudden one day You're like, uh-huh, but like as I saw myself getting physically stronger And it kind of created this like mental strength and for me they they so interplay with each other like the physical and the mental and It then that's when I started to have like these like goals I made for myself and the discipline where I'd go like regularly and all those things I think that Any any success I've had In my life honestly is because of the core foundation that fitness like taught me. I really believe that I do too For myself and when you look at the lessons you learn through fitness They're very applicable. You know what used to blow me away When I would train clients at one point I started training kids and I remember I trained these 14 15 year olds and their parents Obviously were hiring me the kids that couldn't afford personal training and their parents would come to me and say You know Johnny's grades are getting better or he's coming out of his shell or and I remember thinking whoa is this what working out is doing but of course because Because of all the lessons you learn through working out, you know, I know it's just turning into like all the things we love about you But No, here's so I went to visit you down in LA a month or two ago Because I was doing my book tour and you had me on your show And of course we're taught I could see how you're working with all these different businesses and building all these different things That was very impressive and then something happened that I was like this is really incredible your kids came home We were about to do a podcast or we know we're about to get on video for the cooking with Cohen Yes, that is going to be coming out launching soon by the way. Just um, that was strategic But we were doing we're about to do a video and Her in the whole set is set right? We have I don't know five people in there working on it camera people and people telling us the script and doing all this Stuff and you know, we're getting ready to go her kids walk in with the nanny and She stopped everything you stopped everything and your son was like mom I need the password for this and what about that and you went and you took your time with your kids And I realized that you do balance being a mom with doing all these other things. Let's talk about that for a second That's not talked about enough I think a lot of people who want to start business and be entrepreneurs think that they can't have that kind of balance of Their lives that they have to be Crazy focused and never spent anything else around yeah, but I noticed you you obviously and when we talked about your kids And the stuff you're doing with your kids and because they weren't able to go to school because of COVID You signed them up for all these things and you're obviously very involved. How do you balance that out and do everything? Well, by the way, that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. I think that's very nice Well number one, I think it's like very that's very difficult I'm not gonna lie and say that oh, I'm perfect at it because believe me It's not at all easy and I think that you make decisions in life, right? Like, you know, I think that I've kind of been I'm like okay with the fact that If I made a commitment to be a mom and to have kids then that is my priority over work And so I'm okay with maybe never hitting the top pinnacle of where I could be because I don't really believe that you could be As a mom, it's different I think there's like certain things that are just like give that are life's Things in life and you have to kind of accept the things you're gonna accept in life I think that I'm okay with having 75 to 80 percent of my career taken care of and being a hundred percent a mom, right? Because that's my priority. I think that like nothing you there's nothing that you can be Exceptional at if you don't give yourself like if you're not a hundred percent focused and I am divided in that and it's very very Challenging and I there's a lot of guilt that comes it comes into play with that But you know, I think as you get more successful I think you have to be more and more organized and you have to really become more efficient with your time and Really kind of hone in on that time management and I think it really does come down to that So I think that fortunately like when you hit a certain success you could have more help So I have like a nanny to help me when you know to kind of help balance out I have like a husband who is helpful. I have all these things that make it really helpful But at the end of the day, I think that you have to be realistic Know like what you what what you want out of life? What is your core value system? What are non negotiables that you're not going to like go against and one huge non negotiables? I never want my kids or to feel That I don't want them to ever have that memory that like I didn't pay attention to them Or they were in a priority because I think that that has long-lasting effects And because I feel like I am empathetic to those things I just want to make sure that I don't do those things So I think you just have to make like choices in life and non negotiables and then like work that plan. Yeah I would agree. I think it's worth it for sure. Jane. Can I can I ask you some personal questions? I'm really curious to the man that settles you down is he doesn't settle me down You know, go ahead. Yeah, so share share with me a little bit Where where you guys are similar where you are different give me give me a little insight on on what he would he's like Well, I'm like a wallflower compared to him. I mean beyond I'm like he's a huge personality Really? So you got he's a bigger personality. Oh my god This is what the funny thing is like he thinks that like I'm an introvert and Kids you not I gotta meet this guy. I kid you not so for those of you who don't know Yeah, my husband is like he's like extremely big personality. They've wanted to do like a million TV shows on him They've like everybody's like, you know, he's like a big personality. He's done like a lot of like really cool shit in life And he's also somebody who in a different way is all about like not having any regret in life So like he just came back from a week of doing kite surfing. Do you know what kite surfing? Yeah, they did that for a week He just does all sorts of like crazy-ass shit all the time He's like a normal version of like a layered Hamilton when that you know what I mean? Like he does he takes he's very risky and and he's also an entrepreneur and a Self-starter so we have a lot of that stuff in common. Is that what connected you initially? Yeah, like what I Admire in a lot of people. I like people who are very much a go-getter All right, like and who are still who are who are scrappy. I think scrappiness is an attractive quality and That's for me. I mean everyone's different and He's very scrappy and he's like done everything on his own Which again, like I think it builds character when you do that versus this been had, you know being similar businesses as you are Totally different. Oh god. Nothing to do with mine So he he's an he also he owns a few different businesses one business is He does like it's like so random. He does like he has like a manufacturing plant where they recycle oil drums Okay, that's one business then he has a business where he is he owns a very big marketing company where they do like Really they create like crazy experiences. So like he's just did this he did this Indy 500 barstools party that was for like 7,000 people with machine gun Kelly and Diplo and he does the Super Bowl stuff and he does the MLB stuff and he creates these like crazy extraordinary experiences But he was also when I met him. He was known as like the biggest girl wrangler in the country, which is so Pick all the maximum girls that's one of the things like he never was one dimensional right like that's what I'm saying He did a little bit of this. He was he's extraordinarily academically smart and he also is extraordinarily like scrappy and That has that side, which is kind of like usually not always good. That doesn't really go hand in hand Right. So when I met him my god, this is crazy. Did he come after you'd you go after him? Well, he went after me. Yeah, I met him at a dinner. I was actually I broke I was with this other guy And we broke up that this one night and I was going to a dinner that that that the night after it's a Passover dinner I'm Jewish and I called up my friend who was having this dinner and I'm like, hey me and Adam broke up Whatever, I don't really doesn't matter if he listens. Hi, Adam Adam's a very nice guy, I mean, but yeah, but anyway, he'd say fuck you Jennifer to me So I broke up my boyfriend and I'm like, okay, so Adam's not coming. So you have an extra chair So you can invite someone else and so my friend had this like joint state or with this other person And so she invited Noah as it as her date his name is Noah my husband and then um, I met him there. So It's a long story. I'm like, I'm losing my track of what was happening. But anyway, that's how we met and then He we started like he's he when he obviously he started like he asked me at whatever I didn't buy that at the dinner I actually thought he was a rabbi because he was like very knowledgeable But the prayers I literally thought he was a rabbi coming to he looked like the rabbi He wore like this the suit and his hair was flat and he looked like he looked like not how he normally looks So I'm like who's this guy? So then when he like pursued me I was very like I didn't understand who he was and then he picked me up His hair was all spiked and crazy and strange and weird and like he was a crazy dancer He was like he dances like Justin Timberlake would do dance offs with him all the time and so But anyway at the I would have these situations with him because he would like I didn't know this at the time But he would pick all the girls for maxim like all the covers and all the hot What do you call those like I don't know what they but you call them in the magazine like say models models Okay, and so he would have databases on his phone of like thousands of girls thousands of pictures And their girls would come and like, you know to that my house and like pose for him So they could take pictures and he would like he would like and like he was so like desensitized because that's all he He that's all he did so much of it Where he would get hired by all of these companies like major fortune like 100 companies to basically Create like sexiness for the parties So like he would be like he would be like the secret sauce So if a party wanted to be if a company wanted to be super hot or super sexy or like elevate themselves They would call his company and he would like bring the shit And so that's like was like how he was like well known like really well known And so like guys would love him because he had like Like databases of like that that the hottest girls you can ever imagine. This is so not PC right now. That's all right. Yeah, but you know what? This is real live shit I'm gonna get in so much shit Yes, I am I was I was not me too friendly Yeah, but it's there's a lot of that stuff I was friends with a a guy that was this this Russian dude that was a multi multi millionaire and did recycling metal And we would go to vegas and all these trips together and he always had this entourage of a beautiful There's always 10 to 15 like gorgeous model looking girls. He probably paid them though. Well, that's what I found out later on There was a service. So that's why I'm yeah, no, no, he's not like I'm very familiar Yeah, but he's like, you know, you know, there's companies that you can hire and they it's cost x amount of dollars and the girls hang out with you Well, okay, that's a whole different day. So listen, like if you he was on the cover He was on the cover of maxim I think or not on the cover He was like there's like a huge thing about him in it because his whole business he made like A lot of money but he was always super on point and ethical never crossed the line nothing like that I promise you and I'm not just saying that because I'm being uh, I'm being um recorded recorded But because it's true, but I will tell you his thing was more about like crowds And models because the truth to the matter is people don't want to believe this but you know at the time You know, you go where hot girls guys will go where the hot girls are money goes where the hot girls are So like parties were like infiltrated with this this illusion of a certain thing and that's what he was good at But I will tell you something interesting He has been asked Even to this day even back then everybody that major names of people Celebrities and multiple the the biggest billionaires in the world the biggest everybody would contact my husband Regularly to ask for that kind of situation and he would never ever ever that is so not his style Um and like my husband doesn't drink. He doesn't smoke doesn't do anything Like he's such a party or he can stay up till six o'clock in the morning Just on like hot being high on life, but never with that stuff But like there's a fine line between both of those things. I promise you but my point is he's a big personality larger than life and um, you know, it's a good it could be a good thing, but it's also kind of like he It could be a clash sometimes. I was gonna. Okay. So that's where I was gonna get at when you have two Really big personalities like that in like a room like what is that? Do you do you step back? Does he step back you guys kind of overstep each other sometimes like what is that? I go in one one a quarter of the room and he goes in the other Okay Yeah, no, I'm kidding. What happens normally is he's super super support You know one thing another thing about him is very interesting is that he is he is super naturally confident He doesn't feel Like mass like emasculated or like insecure by my success or my or anything about me In fact, he's the he is my biggest fan and he's super super proud of me like he he will he will always Not take a step back because he doesn't need to I think both of us give each other a lot of leeway and a lot of like Room and we're and we're not There's no there's no like neediness in that or like insecurity in that like I want him to thrive and I want him to do Well, he wants me to thrive. He wants me to do well and we just like let we just let that be So there's not like there's not any kind of like friction when it comes to that And I think that's why it works because I'm allowed to be who I want to be and do what I need to do And he supports all of that and then I think I do the same because a lot of people probably am I as a Woman being married to someone like my husband and what he Does for a living or he did that more now his business is not about that as much it's changed over the last few years um But like it's about like I think really it's about like Honestly, it's honesty and it's trust like I trust him and I feel my thing is like if you hold something so tight like that That's when things like become a problem But if you let someone just be who they are and like let them like kind of like do what they do It like it it kind of like it kind of just Works much much. So you guys are you guys together are hosting a party of 50 people at your house What roles are you taking who what's he doing? What are you doing? Well, he's all he knows how to he's much better at that stuff. I'm not very domesticated that way He is much better. Well the role is like he's he he's a great host I'm an okay host, but like I I like to my thing is if I'm at a party I like to hone in on one person or two people that I really really like And like learn everything about them because of that curiosity element. That's just part of me He likes to talk to everybody in the room works the room again. He's he's a people person Um, and I'm a people person but in different ways I like to have the specific people that I really get to know because I think having One or two close friends sometimes is better than having a bazillion friends And you know he he just he's very interested in people and loves people and is I'm I'm a little more discerning. I'd little I would say to be honest, but He's much more macro and I'm much more micro at a party, you know one thing too is you you meet a lot of Important people celebrities you don't seem like somebody that would you know, like I remember when I was managing gyms for the first time In the gym I was very confident But I remember when I had to do my first what were called corporate accounts and these were where I'd go to big companies. I'd speak to the ceo Or the cfo and we talk about a potential corporate membership for their employees And I was intimidated because they had suits on they're sitting behind a desk It's a big company and I remember it intimidating me and I had to get used to it You don't seem like someone that's intimidated very easily By meeting people like that. Is that because of practice? Is that something you had to get over? Or do you just see people as people and you don't care? I you know what I I think I I just see people as people But I think that's also practice because I think that over time it's over by life I've been in so many different industries, right? I was in the sports In the sports world. I worked for the Toronto Raptors and I worked for the music world. I worked for a record label I've worked with the musicians artists athletes. I've worked with you know in the fitness space tons of fitness I was a media trainer where it was like I media trained like tons of different ceos and people on that level I've I feel like I've I've kind of like been around so many different people and what I've learned from all of that experience The through line is everybody is the same everybody still everyone wants the same things They are the same. They just want to be They just they want to be talked to and seen as the same is in the same light as anybody else like a lot of times You know it's it people even say like it's usually when you meet like a major celebrity, right? Like they're usually not the dick It's usually the assistant who's usually the problem, right? Like because it's like it's that like feeling of That you that you haven't arrived yet Like you have that like feeling of regret or that feeling that the power thing that you feel is when you don't have it I think once you've arrived at something people are just people, you know what I'm saying Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you do you coach like men and women for entrepreneurship and business? I do a lot of I kind of morphed my fitness business initially into the high performance So like when I was doing the law the media training that kind of morphed into more of the high performance Because you're still you're you're still teaching the same building blocks, right? Like how again It's about like having having a focus and having goals to having goals and how you're gonna You know reach those goals So I did that a lot with like CEOs and a lot of uh hype like a lot of like c level or c suite Um executive do you see a difference between the challenges that men and women have? Doing this because I know your your talk that you did on ted was about boldness and I feel like There's probably a lot of women you are resonating with because you know stereotypically women might be a little bit more less Uh, you know, maybe less bold or less willing to put themselves out there. I've heard this as a challenge Do you see differences between the two when you general differences between the two when you coach them between male men? Yeah Um Absolutely, I do I think Women are like to your point. I think there's a little bit There's much more apprehend Apprehension to go to chase what they want or to to go after what they want and they'll take the good enough Much easier Men are much more. They're naturally more bold. I should say to To kind of to go after that and I think it's because what you guys were saying earlier Is that you guys got so used to that rejection? Peace that it became kind of part of your like DNA where it was easier I think women have that like extra obstacle to feel okay with asking for what they want more And getting over that self-doubt hump and that that that self-doubt can can be a real You know a real hindrance. How do you coach people through that? I think understanding. I think that the the best Tool in personal development is self-awareness and I think the reason behind that is You know, if you really know yourself and and kind of can really like sit with yourself and figure out where that where Where that comes from what your core? you know self-doubt comes from like where the The root of it. What's the root cause of where it comes from and then work from there is really really important I think if you People don't like to do that. They like to lie to themselves They don't want to like have that rawness even for themselves But I feel like if they if they're able to kind of know who they are more and kind of build within that That's the first step. I think also another big one is having like Teaching someone to have more compassion for themselves. I think that ends up having more emotional resilience I think it's really easy to Have compassion for someone else like for you if you if something happened and or to your friend What you say to your friend is very different than what you say to yourself and trying to like train your brain by practice To talk to yourself differently is a really helpful tool as well I think overcoming self-doubt is also looking at the circle around you And looking like who is who are the five people that you surround yourself with the most right because a lot of times Those people are infiltrating the external infiltrates your internal to what we're talking about before with you Justin and me everyone else we get a lot of our ideas from what what others think of us close to us So like surround yourself with supportive people and also like find validation from within Don't look for outside validation Like find something about yourself that gives you strength what makes you feel What what are you good at and kind of like focused and lean into that more? I heard you talking about Knowing what you want, you know, like you got to know what you want. Like what do you mean by that? Well, if you don't you ain't gonna get it. Well, yeah But I think a lot of people listening are like, well, I know what I want But you you talk a lot about like no really knowing what you what you're looking for I think it's I think people I think the majority of people don't know what they want They may have like an idea But I think but they don't really know and I think it also is a moving target I think as you like go through life You like you can shift and evolve and change what you want, right? And I think that that that whole self-awareness piece is super important I think the better you know yourself the more you know what you want, right? Like what your core Belief system is what your core values are what your non negotiables are what you like Or what you don't like it could be as simple as that like I don't like this, but I do like this So let's lean into this or like I'm really bad at this and I'm really good at this Okay, so lean into what you're good at and make that what you focus on in terms of your like career and then like Find people that you're you know to kind of supplement your weak areas I think nothing is built with one person You need like tea you need a team to be successful And I think the the whole like no You you get to know what you want by by starting with the foundation of who you are 100% so that makes sense. Yes 100% what's uh, what is your current vision then for Getting into podcasting like what do you what do you want from that? And I know you're very self-aware So how is that unfolding? What are you doing? Well, what are you not doing so well? What do you see others doing? Well, you want to be better at what do you tell me what that look what that looks like for you? Right now, that's a really good question. I'll tell you so um What I like what I love about it is that I get to speak and talk to people who I think are really really interesting And I can learn what they do again. It's like I I I choose people as guests who I think are doing something Extraordinary or who have done something extraordinary or and I want to learn from them what their habits are What how why did they become so successful? What is what has been their path? What is what what do they do? And then I want to like I want to like try to like take that information And like make it apply and apply it to myself to my life and to the my listeners, right? Like I think that's the most like the same thing with your podcast, right? Like you guys give such valuable information That you give people a reason to tune in like I want to listen to what you guys are saying and there's like raw honesty, right? so I think That's what I like about my podcast because I I think that people are coming on there like sal Who are giving some really good information and great tips and tools that people can apply to their life um What I don't what I what I find interesting is the podcast space is so competitive It's so saturated. It's really really hard to stand out and to um, even be known unless you have other ways of doing it like unless you're really good at marketing and Partnering with people who can help elevate you or you know to get on the charts and everything like that like everything There's there's so much like business stuff and behind the scenes stuff that people don't even think of If they actually want to make the their podcast a success or like a quote-unquote hit Like if you just want to be a podcaster and and podcasts because you just genuinely love to speak to people But you're not looking at it as a business. That's a totally different Animal, right? But to get to the level like even that you but that you guys are at right like where you built an entire media Company around it it's people don't understand like the amount of hours and time and effort and People behind the scenes that make that a reality Right like and I'm learning all of that as I as I go and it's a lot of work What is uh, what surprised you so far so for you know, and I'll give you a softball pitch with like the our first example of that I remember we had when we were tiny. We just started We had the first person that had a quarter million followers that was going to come on our show Just a local friend who'd he'd been on the bachelor and we're like, you know, we could call I was like, hey, let's call him. He's got a massive following Yeah, and we were so excited because you're talking about at this time. None of us are known at all We're just getting going in his podcast And we were like sitting on pins and needles for like because at that we're thinking, okay We have maybe a thousand people paying attention to us. This guy comes on with a quarter million We're taking a lot of going on. Yeah, you know, and we're like sitting waiting like crickets crickets Nothing happened. So have there been things like that all the time I would tell you all the time Things that I thought would like super like would would like just like Take it to the next level over and over again Like massive people I've had on where like it was literally crickets It was mine as well Like just be like shooting a cannon through like a you know an empty room It was like nothing and I find that like a lot of times what we're saying earlier Is that like I have had a lot of people on that you don't even know I had on because I won't even air the episodes because they were such bad episodes and so like I learned from like You know a couple of things when I put people on who like were really really well known And I thought that was going to like totally take me to the next level and put me through the stratosphere And like it didn't do anything that I realized quite fast It wasn't that like at the end of the day you need like half you have to have really good content And if you don't have good content no one's going to listen because there's too much There's too much competition out there But with that being said I'll also say there's a lot of podcasts out there that have very good content But they have two listeners because nobody knows that they exist So like I want to ask you guys that question like what do you think you need to do because if it's about have If it's only or if it's a lot of it. It's about having good content Then why is that not just enough to kind of well because there's so you you alluded to it already There's there's a ton of competition and there's a ton of other places like for example like to the point of Like big guests Matthew McConaughey recently did his rounds. I think you even interviewed him too. I did yeah, so And I didn't send our team to go after him and I said, you know, I have already seen him on 30 something podcasts already Before we were even thinking about reaching out and I love Matthew McConaughey And I think it would be and he I listened to his conversations on many podcasts But that's just it. There's an abundance of people that are interviewing him. So One one thing that I think is very important and we've learned this over the last six and a half years Is just becoming better at your job, which is just purely practice So nothing is gonna is going to trump reps which you've already alluded to that already is just And I mean and what I mean by that to be more specific for somebody who's interested in the podcasting space is I mean, I even pay attention to the the ums the you knows the fear of pause And silence on the podcast that would scare the shit out of me Oh, yeah, we used to fill that four years ago And because we had the gift of gab That pause would happen and I would insert and salad and just and we would just be always doing this And learn to just relax and and slow down the conversation recognize that the listener It doesn't feel like that So there's a lot of like things like that that you start to get better at your craft another thing that I think Literally, this is just happening for us right now. So this is kind of need to talk to you about um I believe our last five interviews are the best interviews we've ever done and it doesn't matter who the person is We did a tonal is ceo. We did a whole 30 girl We did this guy on a doc this kid on a documentary. We did an economist, but it's not them It's that we are getting more comfortable With asking the hard questions And not being a friend because when you're a friendly person and you and you like and you like to like people and you like them to like you You you tend not to want to piss them off, but for great radio or television or youtube whatever You know controversy and struggle for your guests is really good content And so it took us a long time to get over that hurdle of you know what? I'm gonna fucking ask that question. He's not gonna like it or she might everybody wants you to ask 100 I could not agree with you more and I think that is So so true and I also think The problem is more it's getting harder now not so much because of what you're doing But it's about this about cancel culture and not not being on point with what's mainstream So a lot of people now and what I find is happening Which is watering down a lot of content on podcasts is the fear of Being shunned or cancelled or whatever where then you're getting very beige Content very beige answers very beige questions because there's that fear element, right? Yeah, that happens We're the wrong people for that Well, not only because we don't we don't care not only that but the the entrepreneur in me sees the huge opportunity in that Absolutely because everybody's doing that. That's right. There's your blue. There's your blue ocean right and also like, you know Stand steady and tall and strong and when you're building your audience You pick and choose kind of what kind of audience want to build We open the gates that way and so we've conditioned our you know people comment. It's funny. I was on a podcast this morning And I was getting interviewed and it was dr. Becky Campbell and she says oh my god, I love your your listeners. They're the best Listeners are hilarious. I love the comments that they put we built it. We train them that way So they're not going to get like if I build my audience with this like oh, I'm careful I don't want to be honest and I got to be careful. I don't want to see I'm gonna and I'm going to be Beholding to that all the time then I'm going to get canceled by my own people Well, that's why I also have to you know, consider if you're bringing on sponsorships and and you're you're beholding to You know all these companies coming in and having control of your content, which Right away from the beginning we we made a point of that that we're not going to have like Supplement companies and and we're not going to do the same formula every fitness company's done forever Getting into the space. We're just going to you know, do our own thing and blaze our own path I'll give you an example. This is hilarious. By the way, so we worked we worked with the company I'm not going to get too specific with this because we got a little trouble this but We were the company that has a supplement that is very we like very effective for what it does But it also because it's all natural and it's not super flavored tastes like crap It just doesn't taste good And literally that was how we would talk about it I would talk about using it and adam be like, ah, it just tastes like crap, but it does work And I remember the sponsors The sponsors getting upset the sponsors are getting upset like what why would you say that whatever we're like? Listen, we're being honest Why don't you wait to see how many people buy your product and then come back? I guess what they were they're fine. Why because the honesty Was very effective at selling the product because we're just being honest We're just totally being honest Whereas other people might be afraid and be like don't mention it or lie about it But we're going to tell you look it's effective tastes like crap because it's all natural But that's okay because it does all these other things But I love that about you guys I think that authenticity and that that honesty is refreshing because Unfortunately, the majority of people are not doing that Especially in this space Especially in this space and like to you know what I Let's even talk about that Matthew McConaughey thing for a second because you know what like what's happening a lot Not just with him, but like everybody has the same guess. It's all recycled shit Same conversation Same shit And if you actually listen and this has happened to me a lot of times where like I'm researching a guess Oh, and he gives you the same interview that Literally, I'm like why bother it just go listen to so-and-so's interview to the same sound bites the same stories the same pauses like Oh, yeah, that reminds me of And goes into the story I'm like so okay So that's a such a great point right and we definitely fell for this also Oh, yeah, and we afterwards we'd all talk be like fuck man. He literally just took over So and that's a little bit of us being better at interviewing right? So this is something that I think Joe Rogan does so well He he doesn't he may not look like he's having a really good interview But that man has done extremely good research on those people and he does a great job of taking the conversation You know and I've seen him get guests that have their sound bites and he will disrupt that And so that's on us right to be better about Seeing that coming and be like ah, and I've done this before I've stopped somebody like I've heard you say this before But I want you know, I want to know more about this or why you say that right so You know that's part of getting better at an interviewer is is knowing that they have their agenda and what they're gonna want to say I want to disrupt that if I want you even as a guest because sometimes We won't even let somebody on the show like that if I think they that's all there They're all is they have an agenda to sell a book. That's it. But you know, but you know what exactly that's true Yeah, but you know at the end of the day If you do a good job of impacting people like in real ways They're gonna sell the shit out of you and that's how you're gonna grow at the end of the day You have to do that and there's really no other way To effectively grow a a podcast business or other media business Unless you're really impacting people and then they through word of mouth because you we've all done this You ever listened to a podcast and you're like holy shit, man I got to send this to four people and you end up sharing it You're like you got to listen to this guy. He's really or this woman. Oh my god She's and so that's the goal the goal is always to do that because I mean, I don't know any marketing. That's as effective. Well, I'll give you something else I agree that the organic shares are very important, but okay, sorry, you're gonna say something Yeah, I'm just something else that you know, maybe you can use that I think look and this is me looking back and unpacking the business and the growth and what worked what didn't work Something that I think that it just it worked itself I don't think any of us were like brilliant and thought was a great strategy It was just go speaks to the authenticity part and that was we shared very openly a lot of the business From the very beginning like what our strategy was why we're not doing this like oh, we're starting to make money now like Uh, that's something a lot of people are afraid to do They're afraid to like let people know how they're making money or this that but a lot of people are really curious Especially if they've become attracted to you and your podcast and they already kind of like you as a host The more you share about your journey through this whole thing, too I think pays off a lot and it's helped us out a ton. So I totally agree with you I'm gonna say two things to that point Um, I've I agree and that's why I'm an open book I mean I try and I think that what you and Sal and I were talking about this when I entered this space And I like asked people for like legit like, you know, I you know just In in full transparency like, how do I do this or how do I do that? And there were so people are so, um Forget about the even the audience just from from like podcaster to podcaster So they hope they they hold their information so tight. They don't want to help you But the reality is it's like if and I really and I'm not just saying this for as a platitude But I really believe it I and I and I I always lead with this the more I've helped people and given to them It's always come back to me tenfold. I never hold that information. If you want to contact, I'll give it Gladly give it to you. You're not lying. I've done this with you. I've asked you questions and you're totally open 100% and like does it come back? mostly Not by those people maybe never I would say nine times the ten it doesn't but that one that does Is worth a hundred people, right? Yeah, that's people who also claim that they're your friends They're your work friends and it's the same people who come to you and ask for help over and over and over again But yet like you think when you ask a one cup one thing it's like coveted They won't help you with anything and like the funny thing as I was going to tell you about the podcasting the guest I've always had better call like something not always a lot of times the the best Interviews or the best conversations happen off of the microphone offline versus online Because people are so scared and so uncomfortable with like open Like rawness and honesty, but if they were just that way on the podcast it would have been so much better You know you do this we started doing this. Well, we just did it to you. Yeah, we stopped. We stopped recording already We stopped telling people we turn on the we turn out because that's what happened. I do that too, by the way Yeah, it works. Otherwise, we're like, all right, we're about to start and then all of something formal intros I never do it But then I then what happens is I get awkward because I'm like, uh, because I'm not as seasoned as you guys But I'm like, should I be like because I I'm talking to him and they're almost nine out of 10 times I'd be like, so when are we starting and I'm like, oh, we've been going Yeah, we've been starting and then they're like, well, aren't you gonna do it? Like aren't you gonna say who I am and I say I'll do it after The same thing every time because that's the only way. No, that's a great hack I think that's it for any podcasters listening. It was it was definitely one of those You know, we look back at pivotal moments of the show when it evolved and got better One of the most pivotal moments was when we stopped doing the formal intro of sitting down like, okay This is Jen Cohen and then we go into this whole it's so awkward. They freeze up You get all fumbly trying to remember all their shit It's so the whole spirit that whole thing is so that is a great I think that is a great hack because it's so awkward and even in any interview or anything Whenever someone like I hate formality. I'm really bad with it I get very weird and uncomfortable and anxious around it So like I just try to do to others as I would like to be done to be right like the truth We would never have a conversation like that. So why would I do it any different? Exactly like the second you and you also you just you you disrupt that like flow Right because like then you'd be like, okay, let's start now and it's like, oh, okay, you know And it becomes I'm so sorry. I feel like I'm focusing solely on you this happened last He's the handsome one. Yeah, I focus on him too. No, I feel like my chair just swivels left Naturally, I'm sorry Not and like I feel bad Well, we have a lot in common too. I would you have a lot in common Yeah, no, you're you've uh a lot of the you know behind the scenes And I'm glad that we're we're sharing this for the audience and stuff because we don't talk about it a lot But and I'm sure the guys would agree with me that a lot of the success We've had is because of the relationships that we've built offline. Yeah off offline We have we've built a lot of good relationships We want you know, I want to comment to what you were saying about when people hold information tight Like they're they're looking at you like a competitor. I remember the first time I learned what you said about, you know How things tend to elevate? I remember Managing a big gym and then a big another big company a competitor opened up a gym not too far And I remember at first being like, oh crap competitors here Like this is gonna like hurt our business But then I started to see people walking in my door who that gyms advertising Got these people to just start looking at gyms. So they went to that gym and they come to mind Oh, I just looked at the new one. I wanted to see what the competition was My volume of people that walked in my gym increased because it brought more awareness around fitness in my area So to podcasting when podcasters who are just so stupid, they don't see beyond their own nose They don't especially right now Podcasting is still in its infancy It still has yet to even come close to the size of talk radio talk radio used to be so massive, right? Podcasting is going to get there. It's digital audio. It's going to get there And so these these other podcasts are so dumb because The more really good podcasts that exist the more popular the more people come to podcasting I mean, if you just stayed where you were and the whole Genre grew so would you yes, they don't realize that they think it's It's such a dumb Mentality and it's so counter productive, but it's that whole scarcity. It's a scarcity abundance thing. Yeah, it's exactly It's all about scare scare And also it's what's weird is it's in a different genre like a lot of times. It's a lot of different genres Not even something competitive. I'm like, I'm talking about apples and you're talking about like politics Like what's the difference? And it's like it's I think it's just like that abundant scarcity thing And I think that that's like a mindset that people have to try to like Get over because it's only like at the end of the day It's going to hurt them more than anything right because you know, I also think that water finds its level, right? Like you gravitate eventually to people that you're similar to that help push you and propel you to the next place to the next place and And that's about partnerships, too I think that you find partnerships that help you and grow and help build your business like You grow you truly grow into an empire when you have really strong strategic partners around you Oh, you have to this you know, this would not be possible with my partners. There's no way Their strengths are definitely some of my weaknesses and No way no, yeah I was actually going to comment on that earlier because you know your strengths being Networking and something I've taken from adam and he's really good at this is creating systems around that and Having follow-ups and emails and gifts and just thoughtful things for people that we've Met before have done business with is there systems that you have in place and and things that you've put to to be able to Manage all these people. Well, yes. I think that like the networking piece is super obviously super important And I think that you you lead with what I can help you with not the opposite So don't you don't build a relationship by asking for something out of the gate, right? Right, like I think that's like the biggest faux pas Like if you really want to build and develop a relationship lead with what I look what you can do for them You know, what can I do for you? And I think that like that is That's like step one, right? Like I think I also think having and like this goes back to and it's not that I'm trying it's not that it's uh, macchi vellion and it's not that it's, um strategically It's not like it's a being an opportunist. It's actually just being like what again like Human nature and psychologically how you would respond in that situation, right? If if I if you meet somebody and right off the bat, they ask you for something without knowing you It's a turn off it like put you like I put you on the defensive. It's uncomfortable But if it's if you lead with like, you know Actually being curious and interested in who they are and what they are number one I should say that's really number one like have interest and curiosity to kind of really understand and know who they are and then Lead with how you what you can how can that? How can you be of service or help them with something the be of service and and and help is really the step two And from there things will take its, you know, course What adam was what you're saying what adam the follow-up is so key too because so many times things die on the vine Because it's you you start that friendship You go strong out of the gate and then it like, you know Whittles and dwindles down into pure nothingness because in order to really build a relationship Is you need to have shared experiences you need to have You have to have longevity and like interaction over a course of time, right? It's it's not just like okay. You you lead strong with a really hard You know, you meet them you're it's great and then there's like it's empty So it's like having reasons to constantly re-engage with somebody and And you do that, you know in a natural organic way Like if you have shared interest if you have shared things Remembering what they've told you if they said something, you know follow up with like, oh, whatever happened with this or whatever happened with that or You know remembering people's names, you know, like it sounds so stupid and it sounds very much like You know that book deal how to win friends and influence people wisdom Lots of wisdom a lot of wisdom and I think like sometimes there's no People are looking to make the most basic simple things complicated and it's so not necessary It's like fitness like it's all the same. It's like, you know, people need consistency to be successful, right? people, you know repetition And you know to build friendships to to build a healthy body, whatever But like at the end of the day at, you know, it's about kind of like following Like kind of creating those steps and just kind of going with that I don't think it's with what I was going to say about fitness is People are looking for this magic pill or a magic bullet to get these great results Just like in networking too. It's like actually it's not that complicated and it's not that difficult It's like really like, you know, have interest in who you're talking to, you know Kind of like be cognizant of like how you could be of service or help them and follow up once in a while You know, it's not that complicated One of our biggest pet peeves is we'll get because we have a team obviously that That filters people who want to be on the show And we'll get an email from someone that's like, hey, would you like to have me on your show? And and then we'll and then we'll we'll see that they have a podcast Like that's how you open you have your own podcast. You should stop doing that Yeah, you should ask us to be guests first and then possibly we'll have you on Yeah, but they they open with uh, do you want me on your show? You know what I mean? It's like, wait, you have a podcast too I know Well, that that happens a lot with people have bigger pot like big big podcasts too. You know what I mean Because I never understand how people have not like figure like it's like a lot of these things like common sense isn't so common Right, like that's just the bottom line. You would think that these things over time people would kind of like realize Just from experience and it's I think that's again It's like a skill that it's easy to that's an easy skill the master if you just if you actually just you care If you care you care people people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care And if you lead with that in relationship building, it's a very powerful thing and it is that simple But you just got to care if you don't really give a shit and you just want, you know And you're looking for something in return. You're gonna have a hard time Well, yeah, and then also it ends up flatlining pretty pretty quickly because those things never really do have a really long shelf life You know, it really doesn't they don't that was a jim quickie in there Keep it on your podcast. Yes. Yeah Yeah, he does that he'll like say something and flip it and says the same thing but you guys tease him all the time I thought he was good. He was right. Yeah, he had his talking points for sure He has his talking points. I've seen him like a minute. Oh, I should again I'm gonna be like I have I'm so not pc because I forget that this thing is on be careful with me because I'm the same way So I'll pull it right out. Honestly. I got it. I know because I'm gonna start shifting my chair right You know, all right. Tell us your least favorite guests go Oh my god, I was going to actually almost I didn't air it actually thankfully How many of you not aired that's actually crazy because there's not that 20 a lot Wow Well, her podcast is interview heavy. She does a lot of interviews I actually don't do as many as you really actually how many do you do we don't do a ton at all barely any Oh, yeah. Well, you guys are great. You have like you have someone you can banter with I have nobody I can banner with It's actually so it's like how am I I don't want to just talk to myself. Yeah, no, no, it's a different It's totally different challenge. I'll come hang out with you anytime you want anytime I can't help 20. I've had and there some of them are like really big Okay, so tell me which I think is interesting because I've had to deal with this which is always awkward How is the the conversation of letting them know it's not being aired. Can I tell you something? It's it's fair I have a lot of haters probably right now because I have a lot of people who like are Contacting my team being like so when is it airing? It's been like a year They have like a new book or yeah, like a new project But like I just you know, I want to be able to pull the trigger and be like, okay And then I feel guilty and I'm like, oh, maybe I should just air it But it's like so bad Where it's like I I don't want to do that to my audience and I don't I want to be true to myself too Like I just don't want to so I I'll give you a tip on that because it took me a while to get over that hurdle Right. So first of all, we set it up now when we when when they get an email over from our team about the interview process Within there it actually states that your episode may or may not air That's right Then the second thing when I when we have to potentially have this conversation I'm just very direct and blunt honestly. We don't think the interview was that great We didn't want to put it on the audience. I don't think it's going to make you or us look good And so unfortunately, we're not going to air it. Am I going to get that email when I get No, we'll just you'll just drag you out for a year. Yeah, maybe yeah, we're gonna put it out there Exactly in a few weeks. Yeah, that's what I would do. The the amateur me would be do that for a while I'd be like, no, it's coming out in like three or four weeks. Like I'll check and then they'll like Then they'll do it again. We were brand new. We had somebody say they lost our file Which so we were on a podcast for a long time We had a chip on our shoulder about that because it was it bothered us that we did this kind of cross Promote. Oh, yes. Yes another fitness podcast We were at that time we were the small fitness podcast and you know, we did this cross thing Well, we aired theirs and then they oh, we couldn't find we lost the file Did you guys surpass them? Oh, oh my god, which podcast was it? I don't know if I want to go on your show off there. I'll tell you yeah off here I'll tell you why don't you guys have a girl to like kind of balance. I kind of I don't I wish I wish Sal was a girl. Yeah Just how it happened The truth is we if uh and because we get asked that question I actually hate that question by the way I get very annoyed when someone asks that question Well, no, and let me tell you why I do is because uh, the the decision to have Sal and Justin As my partners had nothing to do with their sex And if if I had a female version of one of them, I would actually much rather them be that we'd do more We'd be more successful because someone would be like, oh, there's a girl in there It's just with the current culture. Yeah, everything would be great It's just we're not picking people to talk to you based off of immutable characteristics Right or like gender, you know, who does a really good job is smart lists Have you guys ever heard that part? No, no, no, you have because it's the same. They have three people It's jays. It's called smart list with jason bateman will Sean haze and will His name. No will or net. Is it yeah will or net. Yeah, and they are freaking hilarious together And I'd listen to it not because I could careless who the guest is but they're Bantor and they're like all they do is like rip on each other and it's This is what this is what connected the three of us Like we just we did not sit in a room and go we should all podcast it We sat in a room and there was this unbelievable The conversation was so dynamic that katrina my wife who was my girlfriend at the time Was in the kitchen was so enthralled by that She went over to the ipad and recorded the two hours of us talking in the living room Because she was so into the conversation. That was the first time we met The first time we really yes the very first time we all met There was just this dynamic chemistry of the the three of us all just Having conversation talking shit to each other picking on each other like that was our personalities And like I said, if I'd rather one of them be a girl, but they weren't and that's how it all played out Right, and I would and and because of my integrity and their integrity We would never go seek out putting a girl on the show just to put a girl Just because we know that there's a lot of people that ask that and and I know that we would appease A certain percentage of the population just to say like oh, and here's our fourth host gen You know just because she's a girl You know I'm saying like if we did that just to appease the people that think we need to be you know, uh sexually balanced Uh, I just I wouldn't sit well with me. I know I told and I and I appreciate the integrity I guess because you would think not always I would think just in terms of like a girl's perspective Not in terms of the banter back and forth Oh, there it is But it's more because of the you know What is you like when you guys do such great conversations having some maybe have like a female perspective? I mean, I don't know. Well, here's well. Here's the reason why we bring him on the show But here's all I'm hinting that maybe I wanted but can't don't you guys She's trying to set us up. Oh, no. Well, that's He's so like, you know, god, you're like, oh, it's it's been it's actually been a We've probably get hit with that question. I don't know maybe once a month still that oh that often Yeah, yeah, it comes it comes a lot. It came a lot very very beginning and here's the thing, uh, you know our conversation, especially around fitness 75 of my clientele for two decades was women. Yeah, I'm better at talking to women about fitness than I am men I have more practice more of an expertise in that I've had to go back and read and troubleshoot All the things about the female body that I can't say I can share And learn about it myself and then learn how to communicate it to them And then also learn to have empathy and understanding when I'm not Exactly female. So I've learned we've all learned that skill for two decades of training real people So it's not much different on here communicating the truth is different perspectives are always great Whether it's a man another guy or a woman or whatever Different perspectives are always great But they have to bring value and they have to be able to communicate effectively And do a good job and then I don't care man woman, you know They don't identify as either I don't care Those are the criteria is that I would that we would look for but yeah, but but here's a deal like we've already built our dynamic With us. I don't think we'd ever add another person. We're not into open relationships. We're very I mean, I get committed to each other You know, I do think that I mean the way that we uh, we started to build this and the way we continue to scale it Is with the intent of being able to remove ourselves So I I don't I would not be surprised if one day that one of us is not sitting in this chair And that we find in a female personality that we're like, oh my god Adam Jen is like the female version of you and you're trying to scale out of that position Let's see if we can pay her enough money to be on the show I 100% could see that happening But that's what would make that decision is that you and I are so alike and that you are now filling my chair Has nothing to do with your sex. It's that your personality probably and there's like we know a guy who's like kind of like sad We know guy that's like Justin really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're not doppelgangers. No personality personality wise and strengths that they bring to the business because that's the other part It's very important. Everybody in here has a very important role to this company. What's your role, Justin? Just looking to be awesome It's real easy He's definitely I calm them down because they talk a lot and I'm trying to like Sometimes we'll we'll get really heavy in in certain content and I think that it really it's just my own Like I've gone through school and I get bored and so I like to interject and make sure like we're still having fun And so half of that is like, you know, let's keep having a good time about this It's getting too heavy or it's getting too serious with you know, political stuff in the beginning or or whatever But like for me, it's it's about, you know being able to educate but have a good time doing it Well, that's your that's your role. That's his role in a show but behind the scenes you got to understand that Justin is more of an integrator than than sal and I so Justin does a lot of technical stuff when you all of our videos All of our programs that have been written and stuff like that. He heads all that up Oh, wow All the tech and him and Doug are way more organized and sal and I are a mess Sal and I are the sticky notes. Got it. We need we both need assistance to remind us what to do today Like we're a mess. You're like that too, Sal. Oh my god. He's worse than me Yeah, you tell me what to do and I'll do it good, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do yet Really? Absolutely. Cause you seem like the academic Definitely, uh, I like to read. I like to recite. Um, I like to talk about those kinds of things But organization is not my forte. I don't know definitely not I'll I'll show up and I'll make it happen But I'd much rather know, you know, five minutes before sal. This is what you're supposed to do Today, here's what's gonna happen here done. I'm on point, but I'm not working That's how we so Justin and I were connected 15 years ago and what he was my uh first I hired him as a trainer that became my right-hand man my assistant What attracted to me to his his business skills was he was the opposite of me All of all of my weaknesses were his strengths. Yeah, and so we were as a team. We were incredible Doug and Doug and sal same thing sal found dug because dug was the organized integrator And they built a relationship before my mom that's how this all came together was And that's why we all hit it off so well is sal and I have a lot in common Our strengths are similar our weaknesses are similar We've also met partners that are our weaknesses are their strengths And so that's why it worked so beautifully when we all got together. That's so interesting. And so I'm very that's why I'm very similar to you sal and to you adam We all have the same strength set. That's and you need a Justin and Doug. I do. Yeah You don't have a Justin or a Doug I have someone who is like a Justin or Doug But it's not as full-time as I need and it's funny because it's like an Achilles heel of mine So when you're talking about that that's really what That's really what kind of slows me down to be honest and makes you much more much less efficient So if you like I said if you if you're able to like take, you know Know your your strengths and and find and supplement those weaknesses. It's sky rock It's your success and your ability to thrive We would not be able if Sal and I were by ourselves this business would look completely different But what wouldn't be a business it Justin and Doug we we rely heavily on to integrate Everything. Yeah, we don't we absolutely are terrible at that But we recognize we all recognize that early and we were I'm very comfortable with admitting my my weaknesses And and I know that Justin's that strength and Doug is that for Sal and that's why it works so well So yeah on the show people get it done with our personalities and they just like you mentioned before We got on the podcast you know Sal wrote the book. So he must be the one who runs all this shit People assume a lot of shit, but have no idea When you hear when we talk is just our personalities and here's another thing like Justin is definitely an x-factor because Adam and I are very polarizing Very strong opinions very polarizing. You either love us or you hate us without just great ratings Yeah Well, I mean without Justin it would I know we would have we'd be much more polarized And it would be much more serious at times and much more Not as entertaining and and fun and Justin brings that now this by the way, this wasn't like planned We just met and happened to work, you know, just happened So this is all hindsight, right? And that's but that's when the best things happen right when it's kind of It was there was like such an organic thing that happened naturally and it grew in itself And I think that that again like that authenticity is is the reason for your success most people Like we just mentioned don't have that type of ability. They're they're fearful. There's their water down They have all of those things and you guys have a beautiful balance and your banter is like Great, it's like the smart list but for the in the health and fitness, but it's also like I think it's people make a mistake Trying to force a square peg into a round hole I don't remember when you and I did the video the cooking with Jen. I think that's called. Yeah Yes, with yeah with you and they had a script And they want to and and she was like Jen was like, can we just go like I know what we need to do Let's just go and and why because They and look we had a great time. We did great. I think but I was seeing what they were doing I was seeing what they were doing and I felt like telling them Listen, you're making you're gonna make her not as good by continuing to push Let her do a thing and I guarantee it'll be much better 100% the second that someone puts restrictions on you or me or whatever That's when things become like a total mess, right or like awkward. Yeah, like, okay. Here's the product You know, you need to say here's what you're gonna make now have fun. It's gonna be way better because that's who you are Yeah, but but exactly but knowing what that strength is a lot of people There's a lot of people who need to have regimented Scripts. Yes, which is exactly what they have to stay and did it and they work better in that environment But this all comes right back down to self-awareness knowing who you are knowing what you're what when you thrive when you when you do well when you do really shitty and like Kind of working within those confines is how you become like, uh, that's how you thrive. Yeah, absolutely Thank you. You're always so fun to talk to you. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Are we done? I mean, if we don't we're gonna talk to you right on your plane. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, I am starving by No, this has been a blast. I appreciate you coming on I'm so happy to be here. We'll make you a regular. I do like I do like having you come down So we'll make you a regular to come down here and hang out with us I just like I like I just really like the like like you guys I feel like this is very and I just feel that you guys are very like comfort Like I feel like I've known you guys for a very long time Even though I kind of have but I haven't spoken to you that much, but it's very uh familiar. You feel familiar Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming off except you just I'm teasing. I know I am too. All right. Look if you like our content, uh, you gotta head over to mind pump free dot com We got so much free stuff. It's incredible. So go check that out You could also find all of us on instagram Justin at mind pump Justin me at mind pump sal and adam at mind pump adam Jen, what's your instagram? The real Jen Cohen. There you go. Find her. She's awesome. Not the fake one. Yeah In the long term, you get all of your lows low energy low mood Brain fog or low cognitive ability and the reason is that it's chronic And the reason we can say yes in the short term and then eventually long term as well You've got skin rashes. You've got headaches. You've got allergies. You've got asthma. You've got low mood You have autoimmune bloating gas