 Gwneudio'r cyfnod, a gwybod i'r cyfnod yma ar y cyfnod ymgyrch, ar y Cyfnod Ymgyrch Ymgyrch, ac mae'r cyfnod ymgyrch ymgyrch yn fwy o'r cyfnod Caryline Donaldson, ac yn gweithio'r CIM Scotland Gwneud. If you're a university student attending today's webinar, you may want to sign up to the CIM Marketing Club. It will keep you up to date with the latest trends, innovations and concepts in the marketing industry. All you need to do is hover your camera over the QR code you can see on screen and that will take you through to the marketing club sign up page. So I'd now like to introduce our guest speaker for today's session, Caroline Donaldson. Over to you Caroline. Well hello everybody and it's the weirdest thing sitting here with my laptop, talking into my screen and my slides and I'm not seeing anybody around me, which is very unusual for me because normally I'm either on the zoom room as I call it, with lots of little boxes and faces or I'm in a real room with people. So I will do my best to be engaging and pretend I can see you and hopefully make it as if it was live with you there. So we're going to explore imposter syndrome today. It's a thing apparently and I want to get you thinking about well how is it for you and how does it affect you. So I'm going to share some techniques, some tips on how to beat it and with some actionable steps that you can take away and put into practice. It is loosely described as doubting our abilities and feeling like a fraud. It's a load we suffer from apparently but I do want to emphasise it's not a disease. What I do want to do is say well what is it and how can we change our mindsets because it is a psychological pattern in our heads. There are two psychologists that developed the concept called Pauline Clance and Suzanne Imes and they were focusing in particular on this project with high achieving women and what they noticed was that underachievers cut themselves some slack and didn't really suffer from imposter syndrome the same way. So it's the high achievers amongst us that can be the worst affected but it's not just women it is often discussed with females partly with a lack of role models around us although that is beginning to shift too slowly perhaps and also the lack of confidence hormone that we don't have and you don't get a price for getting what it is but it is testosterone so in general men have 10 times more testosterone which is seen as a confidence hormone than women. So with that in mind just thinking about ourselves and instead of thinking of ourselves as being rigid and can't move what we need to realise is that many successful people in the world may suffer from imposter syndrome it's something you can overcome it does not have to hold you back we just need to have the right and understanding of where it comes from and that's what I want to help you with. So we're going to spend a bit of time today examining your own beliefs I want you to do a bit of personal reflection here about your achievements and I want you to consider the various points that I'll make and the steps I'm going to put forward as building blocks or building pillars I talk about to overcome imposter syndrome. So it happens as I say to successful people many of them a CEO of a bank recently became a CEO of a bank and he's somebody I worked with a few years ago and he said to me oh I congratulated him on his new role and he said oh he said that's the imposter syndrome kicking in big time ha ha laugh laugh but actually I knew he would be really anxious forward. So in terms of how do you help yourself how did you get to where you are now in your career people don't always present an accurate representation of themselves which is why I've chosen this kind of face we've got our own head and then we've got a mask in front of us and how many of us put a mask on that covers up who we really are or does it not cover up? I was working with a board yesterday and I was very aware there was one guy who was particularly what I would call aggressive and challenging and feisty because underneath it all he was actually quite insecure so he obviously was was trying to cover that up and that's quite interesting when that happens so the thing I want you to do is to start really considering your reality your own truth about yourself so write down your achievements get a piece of paper jot them down and think of them as champagne moments you're to celebrate them so your own reality and truth is what achievements have I made what have I done the first thing that pops into your head just just scribble it down and then it'll be followed by another one you have your own skill set you have your own knowledge you have your own experience your own thoughts your own ideas you make valuable contributions and what you need to do is gather them you need to note them you take a notice of them because when you need to remind yourself of your achievements it's really good to have the evidence there in writing and then you can look back and go oh yes I do remember that now it's a bit like doing a CV or um you're applying for a job you start thinking about all the things that you've done you want to have that current um I've just met a lady this morning who's a strategic um director in an organisation but she's not an executive and that was really concerned here she's going for a non-exec position she's going for an interview today and she said I'm really worried because I'm conscious I am not an executive director as all the other board members have been and I said well that's not what you're going to be there for think about where you can make the contribution what is your knowledge what is your skill set what are what are you going to be able to bring that is not there on the board at the moment and those are the things that we need to remember about ourselves so I'm hoping you've got a few things written down that's making you think about yourself and remember and the next thing we're going to do is we're going to do a poll and the poll is really getting you thinking about how many of you believe you deserve to be where you are at and you will now see you've got four options is it I'm just lucky is it I'm a fraud is it I don't deserve it is it I'll get bound out I've got another HR director story where I started working with this guy he'd been an HR director for so many years so this was not a new HRD and he said oh I keep worrying about when they're going to find me out I said why and he said no I haven't done anything I'm absolutely by the book but he said how did I get here and I said well if you really don't know that we need to do a piece of work and that's exactly what we did we started to build up his evidence so he could see how we got to where he is in a deserved way so we've got a huge number of I'm just lucky 59% really interesting I'm a fraud is coming up a lot less 4% I don't deserve it 4% so my HR director he would have been in there and I'll get found out he was in there as well a third of you said that so that's really interesting I'm just lucky took the hot the top spot so let's have a look at the answers or a possible answers that would be there so this is this is what people have said in the research that they've done and how we see ourselves is so important you know it's not perfect and I that's why I'm not good enough others are much better that's that comparing with other people you know they're on to me I'll get found out I'm a fraud so really interesting that what you came up with in the poll is exactly what we found in the research so let's look ahead exactly are we saying about imposter syndrome everyone feels like an imposter sometimes so you might look at this and think oh yes there's the green quadrant people who get imposter syndrome and there's the orange quadrant other people who get imposter syndrome and then everybody else gets they also get imposter syndrome so what the message is here that everybody is going to get some feeling of imposter syndrome or I'll just call it you know it's that sort of wobble factor where you say oh my goodness I'm out of my comfort zone and so what I'm trying to do is get you realising it's in your head so if I can recognise it for what it is this is your first pillar of things to work on it is absolutely normal it is totally normal that you are going to suffer with what I call a wobble when you're doing something for the first time or you're doing something that's a stretch you are and you're building up like my lady this morning who's all worried about her ability to convince the board that she would be good enough it's because she's not been a non-exec director before so it is normal it is also particularly normal amongst high achievers and found more in women than men and I think I've already said that when you're on top of your game you feel great so see this is a way of getting on top of your game and it's that constant learning and constant trying and striving and it is a head thing if you're feeling good and you're on top of your game you also have what I call a flow state and if those of you are into sport in any way whether you're maybe a golfer or a tennis player whatever the sport is you'll know when it's flowing it's much more you it's effortless you just know it's working it's happening for you you don't know how you did that wonderful stroke or you don't know how you managed to hit the ball so high you just know it worked and you wouldn't have had any interference going on for you either around you or in your head or both in fact because you were in that lovely focused relaxed concentrated state that is flow state when you're in top of your game so just remember the wobble when you're being a bit stretched out your comfort zone and don't say I'm a fraud or I'll never make it or I only got here because of luck oh for heaven's sake I don't deserve it no no no you need to just remember these are just insecurities that's all it is and you need to start getting comfortable being vulnerable so if you don't have a stretch and you don't get out your comfort zone a bit then you're never going to realise what you're capable of and that's really another thing to be thinking about okay so hopefully this is getting some eldranging for you in your own mind so another way to look at imposter syndrome and I always remember a young guy I was working with what I know is this slight tiny bubble on the left hand side what I think others know was much bigger bigger assumption being made there because in reality what others know and what I know are the same size of things they might not be the same things but that's okay as long as we know that so the reality is not you know less you know less on some subject and so we have to stop comparing and this is pillar two it's a really important pillar so recognise it for what it is stop comparing you have your own skill set your own knowledge and your own experience you just need to remember it and what people present is not an accurate representation of who they are I've already said that so you need to remember it you need to if you're really wanting to be you and back to that flow state connectivity and effortlessness then you need to be authentic putting a face on putting a mask on will show through a bit like I noticed this guy yesterday on the board so acceptance is key and accepting that when you are in a new role when you are doing something you've not done before you are definitely going to feel that wobble and that's okay it doesn't mean to say you've got nothing to offer and it doesn't mean to say you're not good enough so let's move on to pillar three this is for the high achievers amongst you really which I'm sure you all are and look how different and unique all these people are and therefore all we are so you're not superhuman you are a human being you're just different and we have to remember that we're all different and we have our unique abilities our unique qualities and you have your unique DNA nobody has your thumbprint nobody has your brain compilation you're the way it's made up nobody so you are absolutely unique and if you're too unique as being the thing to think about and have a unique special thing at home in your houses in your in your lives you would be looking after that unique special thing so here's something you need to be thinking about for yourself what am I doing to look after myself what are my own motivations what am I interested in what am I curious about what am I learning how am I growing because that's perhaps what motivates you or are you motivated to stand still I would imagine most people who are interested in high achieving for themselves and doing well in their career and doing well in life actually are not going to want to stand still so therefore you're going to be regularly out of your comfort zone and feeling that wobble so we need to get used to it so if our motivations are growth then we need to realise well there's no such thing as failure and I've got that growth mindset I'm going to give it a go I'm going to say yes I don't know how to do it but I'm going to learn and if I don't do very well that doesn't mean to say I'm a failure so keeping yourself fresh is also part of this being human and not superhuman but understanding your motivations and having that growth mindset and tell people how you feel share with them I'm learning this I'm doing that I'm feeling this have you felt that and you know the more you share with other people the more you open up your growth mindset so I want to try and get you thinking about something that's maybe practical just to compare and I because I can't ask you and I don't know this you might be drivers as in driving a car you might be able to drive and if you are able to drive the chances are or it could be a bike you had to learn how to do that so when you first got behind the steering wheel of the car and you think oh this is going to be easy I've watched my mum my dad my uncle whoever drives my brother my sister I'll pick this up no problem I bet the first time you drove you had all sorts of problems you would have you know stalled the car you'd have got the indicator mixed up with the windscreen wipers whatever you would have crunched the gears if it was that kind of a car you'd have taken the clutch off too soon and you'd have been bobbing along in your kangaroo petrol as I used to call it and it takes time to perfect our ability to drive so why would it not be the same for our ability to do anything it takes time it takes practice and it takes a constant repetition so you didn't pass your test by not driving you passed your test because you kept driving you kept learning you kept getting better and you could feel it and see it and you didn't give up say I'm a fraud or comparing yourself with other fantastic drivers or I'll never get it you did it because you wanted to keep driving so I wanted to take something that was real and possibly really important in your life getting about in a car might have changed your lifestyle I don't know but think of something that you have put your mind to and you have worked at it and you can now do it and maybe our time in the pandemic has given us an opportunity to do that a lot of people have taken up a new interest in something a new hobby or um I've done something for the first time that's never done before and they've now learned a new language or they've learned to cook in a way they couldn't do before because they were interested and curious and they felt good doing it and I met a guy last week and he's really working on his on his golf and he said well I now play golf three times a week he said I've got my handicap down to 11 and this is only in the last year and I said wow that's good I said what you're going for he said I want to beat my dad whose handicap is seven so there's his motivation I want to beat my dad now he's not saying I can't do it he's saying he can do it therefore I can do it and that's an interesting one isn't it so he's comparing but in a healthy way rather than in an unhealthy way where we're seeing ourselves as being a bit negative on ourselves so um I'd love to ask you how you feel this is going but I can't so we'll just keep going pillar four and this is your little brain you're going to give it a good workout here and some of my suggestions for this is building your confidence you need to be confident with facts and the facts are like where's your evidence and that's why what we did earlier about noting down all your achievements and all the things that you know you do well these are things are facts they are true so remind yourself of them the other thing is make sure you do things before you're ready say yes not oh I can't because I haven't done that yet say yes I'll I'll do that and then you learn as you go push yourself learn from those mistakes that didn't go perfectly it's okay I'm learning I'm a human I'm not a super human remember that expect failure actually and say yeah I'll give that a go but do it more than once don't do it once and get put off do it over and over again and then decide whether it's for you or not and it helps build your confidence there is no other way to get confident other than doing it reward yourself so celebrate no matter how small and those are what I term as my champagne moments you'll have noticed that perhaps my earlier slide and the champagne moments are what for me is a glass of champagne I got that done I did that thing that I've not done before or I got that piece of work that I've been trying to get or I got that proposal over the over the before the deadline I met the deadline whatever it is a little celebration and it doesn't matter to me how small it is and that rewarding yourself seeing well done and being kind to yourself and celebrating giving yourself recognition might be one of the key factors that will help build your confidence and again knowing your facts so your credentials your experience your outcomes achievements the lady I met this morning preparing her for the board she needed to get that in her head why are you going for that role not why but what are you going to bring to that role so again developing trust in yourself before you're going to do something you might have that wobble um bit of nerves nerves are good wobbles are good so how do you trust yourself is part of building your confidence I'll be okay no matter what happens even if everything collapsed on this laptop I'll be okay you might wonder what happened but we'll reconnect that's what will happen so out of it is growing yourself awareness how do you get more pood up about who you are and what are your talents what are your skills what are your strengths and my idea is write down all you can think of really have talents skills strengths labelled across a page an a4 piece of paper or in a little book whatever works for you and and as a coach because a coach obviously for business coaching for individuals in all sorts of organisations all sorts of individuals across across the globe which is really great for me really privileged and getting insight to other people's worlds is wonderful and most people who are really focused and achieving what they want and learning they keep a little journal whether they call it a journal or their little book I don't know I've got a little green book I've got a little black book I've got a blur book so I've got different books for different things and I find my clients have the same and taking a note sometimes on a daily basis what worked what didn't work so well today for me might be another way to look at it or what can I have done differently so what worked well what can I have done differently a very positive constructive view of learning but also building up my talents skills and strengths now some of my clients do that daily some do it weekly some of you might want to build into a sort of monthly routine for yourself and then you start really building it into your own development routine and so when you come to do your interview review or your six monthly interim review or whatever it is you have in your organisation you've got a whole lot of evidence there already built up but at the same time you will have built your confidence almost without thinking so it's a great thing to do so right down all you can think of don't miss out anything this might be some actions for you after this webinar so you're getting some homework as well sorry but it's all worthwhile so then there's six more pillars I want to tell you about and I really do love this idea of starting a smile file appreciate your worth and tell people record it and look at it and check it over go back over it I don't care what you call it it could be your self appreciation journal I call it a smile file you decide whatever it is and you need to tell a fan have some people there that you share it with now this could be seen as being very positively influenced saying your stakeholders it could be quite intentional getting them to see you in a different light and I have a number of clients that have done that and only to be in a better place so believing because you've done your smile file believing your own worth appreciating your own word and then sharing it is a huge part of that so good luck with that one see how it works for you accept your partner's success and that's about separating feelings from facts and referring to experiences so if you can then say well I did this I produced that I made a contribution there that was the decision I was part of these are the facts then you can refer to those different experiences when you look back and what is great is if you have a bit of a bad day or you have a bit of a challenging conversation perhaps with a stakeholder that's a very important stakeholder if you've got this in a little file somewhere you can go back to your smile file and just take note of what is it that you know you've achieved and appreciated in the past and how can you use that fact and that learning to help you with this current reality so it has loads of uses a smile file and they have said about the telling people share how you feel trust yourself and others and the more you share and the more you tell others the more they are going to feel gosh that's that's impacting on them too and they're going to feel good and they'll also feel it's okay to talk to you and share not just with you but with others so you start breeding a very positive behaviour with other people as well as yourself which is a lovely thing to do and then control your self-talk you are good enough now this self-talk some people will talk about their inner chimp if you've read that book or they'll talk about this self-talk or dialogue the things you say to yourself you know like you you drop something and you say oh i might do it i might say oh okay a silly woman wouldn't you do that for and then i go no i'm not a silly woman because back to the brain not knowing the brain only does what you tell it so if i go around telling my brain i'm a silly woman then my brain is going to go okay you're a silly woman and guess what it'll that'll be the filter i will then use so needing to control yourself talk might need a bit of work that's where somebody like me as a coach can be really helpful or a mentor really good and that leads us to the next point which is get a mentor or be a mentor so getting a role model is really helpful somebody can learn from but somebody who's in a place that you perhaps would like to be that's really good but also if you are the mentor you can see good in in the younger person and see yourself in that younger person and that's really good to see so it's a lovely flip a lovely flip over so um mentoring is good for both i would i would just do it and the last point on these pillars is fake it till you make it back to the brain the brain doesn't have a clue what is real or what is not real it just responds to the words in your head so if you say i'm good enough to say i'm brah i'm making this work if you say i'm okay guess what it says okay and it turns it into real confidence and you start faking it and then it turns into reality so how good is that so those are my pillars i hope they make sense and i really just want to end with that actually difference between elastic and rigid imposter syndrome does not have to hold you back be clear on your definition of success really important you see yourself in that growth mindset that squidgy moving flexible one and are you helping yourself because it's not rigid you need to be moving with with to grow to to help yourself to get that that imposter syndrome under control with more to you than you may think so mindset is absolutely key shift your mindset and look forward to the next challenge and it's that stretch in yourself and finding out what you're all about is what really help so um i hope that has given you food for thought and we are now going to go and move on to our q&a brilliant that's great thanks very much caroline that's some food for thought there definitely um so as you say we're now going to have a short q&a session um so our first question is um they describe themselves as an introvert and they often get pressurised to be more animated this makes them feel that they're not good enough how can they be more confident being themselves oh well i'm hoping there might be something in my presentation there that's made you think about that so i think being confident with how you bring yourself is back to that authentic and maybe actually sharing how you feel about um what you've been asked to do and what works for you so actually being introvert means you think a lot and you you process in your head differently than people who are extrovert extroverts need people all around them they need a bit of animation so you maybe want to be sharing what works for you and how you want to um operate but also ask them what it is they're looking for from you and maybe it's not quite as negative as you perhaps are perceiving don't know if that helps yeah okay um the next question it's a career-based one um it's from a director head of marketing level who female who's in the current market trying to find the next role problem in today's market there are hundreds of roles out there but the specs the role specs are specific to requirements a particular sector particular experience is it naive to think that you could be considered even if you have all the actual skills and experience just not exactly what they say on the spec i have a definite view on this one i'm afraid and it's an opinion i think if you've got the skills and you've got the experience that gives you those skills i think sometimes what people put in a spec is their ideal you know this is the hundred percent what we're looking for but if you can convince them that you've got the skills and the experience that's going to contribute the way they need in their organisation then that specialist area is less important so i would go for it without a doubt and i would um i would amplify the things that i'm bringing in how you approach that job okay um and then the next question um is have you any tips for imposter syndrome course as a result of returning to work post maternity leave um have i got any tips i think it's um i actually think is be really useful to get when you're returning have somebody to talk to when you come back now that could be a peer group it could be um a good line manager it could be a mentor but actually sharing how you feel i is very much part of how do how do you begin to shift that imposter syndrome so having others to share with and talk about your balance that maybe not balance but what you bring and how your self-worth has been affected by being away whether it was a year or six months because everybody has that re-entry issue when they come back even those who have done a sabbatical it's not maternity leave but they've taken a break they find re-entry quite tricky because the rest of the world in in work has just carried on or moved on and it's how do you catch up so find a buddy find a set of buddies find peers find a group a support group and help yourself by by sharing with them that would be my my advice on that one okay thank you next question have you any advice on handling peers who undermine you which then plays into imposter syndrome so i often help clients with this one so i think there's two angles to this there's why would somebody else's opinion or comments affect you to the extent that you actually end up self-doubting so i'm like okay there's something going on there anyway on that confidence that would be worth having a good look at and maybe some of the things we've covered today could help with that but the other thing is you need to learn how to be really assertive and how to deal in a very moderate and controlled and neutral way the peers that are doing what they are doing because that their behaviour is not moderate their behaviour is not neutral and it's not it's not helpful so i would say there's a wee bit of learning there and coaching could be really helpful okay now the next question is someone's asking how can they go about finding a mentor and before i ask you to answer the question just to remind everybody that CIM does have a mentoring scheme for its members as well you can find out more information about that on our website this this question is saying it's not something offered at their place of work and in your opinion is it better to have an external mentor outside of the organisation or an internal it's a difficult one because i don't think it's either or it depends what you're looking for from a mentor so if you're clear about what your own objectives are then depending on those objectives it could be a career move you're looking for so therefore an internal mentor could be really helpful if it's more of a learning from an industry-wide perspective or a more strategic viewpoint then maybe going outside of the organisation would be helpful and if you've got the the CIM mentoring scheme i would have a look at that and see well how do i get one in there if you don't if your network and other networks you might find a potential mentor there okay thanks now i'll combine two questions into one first will be how much of a person's negative self-talk is in their eternal thinking is down to their own upbringing and then i've also got a question here to combine with that have there been cases where people with imposter syndrome ended up being bullied by arrogant peers and leaders and is there any research perhaps um i think there is research i mean there's a lot of research and i think the research would tell you that it's definitely links so if depending on our upbringing we've all had an upbringing we've all got to where we got to and we got brought up by people so you cannot help but be impacted on whatever happened in your childhood for good and bad and so some of our self-talk we need to or our internal kind of thoughts about ourselves we need to be realistic about and think well am i happy with the thinking i have about myself and if it's unchecked then it might lead to me having some kind of anxiety or even depression problem going forward so what do we do to ourselves with ourselves to change our faulty thinking to more useful thinking and is it rational that'd be my first question am i thinking rationally or am i thinking emotionally and if i'm thinking emotionally then the chances are there's a reason why i'm upset and i need some help to understand that if i'm thinking rationally then where is the evidence for this thinking that i've got okay um do you have any tips for supporting others that could be colleagues or friends who are struggling with self-doubt if you identify in other people i guess that isn't it really yeah um i have a great believer in going having a coffee with somebody if it's a a peer or colleague um just say you know notice your not yourself today or i've noticed over the last month something seems to be bothering you um would you like to talk about let's go and have a coffee and just keep it all very relaxed very informal but very supportive and i think the more you can encourage people to talk the better it is maybe not always to you maybe they need to go and talk to a professional that might be the right answer um i remember one one person i was going to coach and she said what she was telling me and i said it's not coach you need i think you need a therapist and um she said oh i've had therapy for years actually talking about it i had my therapy and i'm like oh my god right okay but yeah over on lies um so the next question is um we're back to the interview and changing career type question how would you approach a question in interview if you don't feel experienced in that particular area are there any boundaries to the fake it till you make it what has my experience taught me that i could use to show how i could do it in that new job so you need to be really clear on and have the evidence that says i'm able in this because of what i've done and i know i could transfer that skill onto this requirement in the new job um even though i don't quite know what it is you're looking for in terms of say it was a skill set or a process but you can learn a process but having the ability because you've already had the experience is really the transfer yes right the point is you used to say um recruit for aptitude and trained for skills isn't it really i suppose that would apply in that thing um next question is um what do you do if you think imposter syndrome is leading to more serious anxiety issues and that could be stress or depression i guess as well yeah if it was me personally i would go and get some help and um you either go to if it's in a company you go to maybe they've got counselling services hr and personally i've gone to see a psychologist at times when i've needed that and i just don't think there's any point unless you've got a very good friend who plays that part or or um you know somebody who is a mentor stroke councillor type outside of the business but you need to talk to somebody you need help you can't fix all that on your own no um right to the next question um i keep thinking i'm an imposter as i believe the companies are now so focused on young talent that i started to believe that my years of acquired knowledge and skills are no longer good enough moving up has been um in my mind and has become a challenge due to age um could this be what we were saying earlier about um it could be a culture or a different generational upbringing or linked to the way that people being conditioned any thoughts on that yeah yeah it could be there was a lady i was mentoring coaching sorry coaching and she'd gone on this programme which was only for women as leaders in this huge global organisation as talented women she was 60 and she started off her coaching saying to me i shouldn't be on this programme because i'm 60 and i said so why are you on the programme what i didn't even bother saying shouldn't be but why are you on the programme or my manager put me on it and i said okay let's deal with that fact because that's the fact you got put on it because he wants you on it why do you think he wants you on it and of course it changed her frame it was all of our framing in our mind if we feel we're past it tools and guess what the brain goes yeah get you are and what we have to do is keep ourselves fresh and relevant and that was one of my one of my moments in my slides talking about a growth mindset just because you're a certain age doesn't mean to save it nothing to offer and in fact if you offer yourself as a mentor you'd be surprised how many other people who haven't got your experience want to spend some time with you and my lady i'm telling you about ran all sorts of development for some younger younger people in their career career development and leadership programmes throughout this this company in the last three years of her time she was going to be there because she was retiring at 64 so there you go absolutely well done um and i think we've got time for one more question um from someone who describes himself as an introvert and perhaps communicate slightly less with the team in the office whereas the the rest of the team and i think the key word here is team because we're all individuals aren't we is extrovert so she's not sure how to change for career progression would you advise somebody changing um just because you're different from the team doesn't mean to say you should change in fact it's almost like you need to show how your difference is helping that team so we if we're extrovert then we don't take the time to do the reflection that an introvert does it's just natural to an introvert to reflect more and what a value that is to a team so maybe you're keeping yourself too quiet with that value that you bring and then my advice would be make sure your contribution is heard and decide whether being in an environment like that is working for you before you decide to move on to whatever else you think you're moving on to okay excellent and i think that's all we have time for now um so thank you very much for that caroline we've had some great questions there from our viewers and it's a shame we've run out of time to get through more of the questions that have come in but thank you very much for answering the ones that you did we'll be back with our next webinar express which is colleagues as consumers with dr elwiz lennard cross on Thursday the 9th of june at our usual time of 1 p.m you will find further details about the webinar listed on the events page on the cim website where you'll be able to register for the session so that just leaves me to thank caroline once again for a fantastic presentation and to say a thank you to you all for joining us today take care everyone and we look forward to welcoming you again to our webinars in the future