 Good evening and welcome to episode 210 of the private property podcast, I'm your host Usama Antoma, Kumalo. It's a manic Monday. It's the first of March in 2021. I know many of us are feeling slightly weary as we are very fast approaching the one year anniversary of us being in lockdown. This also of course means that we are approaching the one year anniversary of the private property podcast. If you remember, we first went on air on the 30th of March when we were deep into lockdown and of course kickstarted the podcast with having a conversation with Uzak Mieze and Gil Sperling about how landlords as well as tenants should be approaching the 21 day lockdown and having a very constructive conversation around, you know, rental being paid or perhaps even making arrangements around rental collection. Well, we're nearly one year into this new normal that I'm sure many of us are simply not getting used to and we're still tackling hot property topics and we thought we're going to be in this for 21 days. Well, it's nearly 365 days and we've kept you company every single weekday at 7pm here on the private property podcast and we're going to continue doing so tackling various property topics that help us on our home ownership journey. And it doesn't matter whether you're a property investor, whether you're looking to buy, to sell or perhaps you're a tenant and you want to better understand your rights and responsibility as a tenant or perhaps you want to go from being a tenant to being an owner. We certainly do cater for all of your property needs. And if you're joining us for the first time, well, you have missed out on quite a great array of good content. So do make sure that you go back to our Facebook as well as our YouTube page to catch up on some of the great content that we've already brought to your screens. Now, to all our regular viewers, welcome back to the private property podcast. You know how we do it every single weekday at 7pm. We tackle, you know, a property topic that best empowers us to ask the right questions and to make sure that we get a good deal wherever it is, wherever we are on our home ownership or on our property journey. And of course, I love talking about the other great shows that we have across the private property social media platforms. I am talking about the farming podcast that you can look forward to tomorrow evening. It comes to your screens on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 8pm. That you want to find out about when it comes to all things agriculture. So if you've got green fingers or want to go into farming, then that is a podcast for you. Now, to all our first time home buyers, we certainly have a show for you. The first time home buyers show is the class that comes to your screens every single Wednesday at 8pm. And every Wednesday, she gets to have a conversation with somebody who's walked their first time home buying journey. It's very daunting and it can be very, intimidating. But of course, we all have to go through it if we want to be home owners. And she has a really great conversation with people who've walked the path to reflect on some of the mistakes that they've made, some of the lessons that they've learned, and something that you and I can both learn a thing or two from. And even if you learn a first time home buyer, it's always great to hear other people's home ownership stories and learn a little bit from them. And if you yourself have a great story to tell about your first time home buying experience, then do your first time home buying show on Wednesday at 8pm. Well, you can also, of course, over the weekend, look forward to Chad bringing you the Home Shoppers show that, of course, gives you a profile of some of the best complexes and states that the country has on offer. But we certainly do have a lot on offer for you here on private property and of course across our social media platforms. One of the things that you also have an offer as many of you know is of course the Sherlock Holmes competition. We're now on week seven of the Sherlock Holmes competition. And if you're finding out about it for the first time, well, all you have to do is to go on to www.privateproperty.co.za. Look at what the clue is. We've posted a new clue this morning. So every single Monday, we post a new clue. And this week's clue is actually, I think it's a difficult one. It probably just depends where you live or if you're, you know, you've been really simply good with these clues. This week's clue is in the sleepy Hamlet of McGregor, the ideally family home awaits. With the garden made of vineyards, there's even an extra space for branding. That is the riddle for week seven of the Sherlock Holmes competition. When you go on to our website, let us know where you think it leads you. Do enter on our website and you stand a chance of walking away with a 5000 rand voucher every single Friday. And to keep things spicy and to make sure that we make the winners circle even bigger. Every Wednesdays and Thursdays, we have a spot prize of 500 rand in cash that you can win right here on the private property podcast with myself. All you have to do in order to win that prize is to be watching us live. Because if we call your name, you need to message us down here below and in order for you to claim your prize. It's simply that simple to win on a private property and across our social media platforms. Now to get started with this evening's conversation, one thing you're going to realise is that this week, we're going to be talking a lot about sectional title communities. And this is one of those things that I keep saying every time we have a conversation about it is we're going to continue talking about it because so many of us are increasingly buying and moving into sectional title communities. Some people are renting intersectional title communities and really want to have a better understanding of what life in the sectional title community is like. And really the whole ecosystem of living in a sectional title community because I think so many of us are not particularly familiar with it. That by the time we're in, we end up struggling with it just a little bit. And this evening, what we're going to be looking at is an overview of the effects of the Poppy Act on sectional title schemes. Later on in the week, what you can also look forward to when we talk about sectional title community, we will be speaking to Zalinda Panamabra, who is no stranger to the private property podcast family. And we'll be looking at understanding the important role of the sectional title managing agent. So if you are living in a sectional title community and you still don't quite know what your managing agent does, that is the product cost you do not want to miss. And we're going to close off the week by looking at how struggling sectional title owners can achieve financial stability. We're going to give you tips on how you can better manage your finances when you live in a sectional title. We know so many sometimes to struggle levies can be high and that has a knock on effect when it comes to what can and cannot be done by the trustees as well as the managing agent. So those are some of the topics that you can look forward to this week when it comes to sectional title communities. But this evening, we're looking at an overview of the effects of the Poppy Act on sectional title schemes. And some of what we'll explore is how the Poppy Act is applicable when it comes to us living in sectional title communities, the importance of compliance, as well as how, you know, corporate can begin to be compliant. Because one of the things that we're also seeing is that not all of them are compliant. So what does compliance a look like and how do we make sure that we are compliant now to better help us understand how we can do this. Another person who's no stranger to the private to the private property podcast team easily and Harrison is a portfolio manager at Pam Golden Property Management Services. The end good evening and thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Zama evening. How are you? I'm very good. And it's a Monday I was saying it's been quite a manic one. I think, you know, with so many people closing off financial year last week, we saw that I think this weekend was still a big rush. And now we're starting, you know, the final quarter of Q1. But also, of course, you know, so there's just a lot happening. But I'm sure, of course, we're going to get into a topic that I know so many years at home want to get a better sense of especially if they are living in sectional title communities. And perhaps to a great starting point, just briefly what they poppy act firstly, how it's applicable when we look at, you know, sectional title communities and we've spoken briefly previously on the show around poppy, but perhaps let's zone it down to how it's applicable for those of us who may buy into sectional title communities. Thanks, Zama. So over the last couple of days, I've been involved in a lot of conversations around sectional title and how poppy is applicable. And it is applicable. So I've done just some research, I've looked at the act. And, you know, first and foremost, in terms of the Constitution, everyone has a right to privacy. And that is why poppy wasn't acted to give effect to this right. Poppy places a duty on sectional title schemes to protect the personal information of the owners and their members that live in the, that own in the, in the scheme. The importance of compliance, there's penalties that are imposed in terms of poppy. And when, when they come into effect from the 1st of July, it is important that body corporates comply. So what I'd like to start off with is how they are, how poppy applies to body corporates. So the act specifically says that any person, natural or juristic who processes personal information has to comply with poppy. Now processing, it's, you know, quite a vague term. So I'd like to just break it down further what the word processing means. So processing means the collecting of information, the utilizing of it, the storing of the information, sharing it and retaining it. So if I apply that to a body corporate, the collecting of information, body corporates collect information via the managing agent. If you're a new owner in a body corporate scheme, you submit your information to the managing agent to keep it and to utilize it to share information with you, to send your levy statements to you, to communicate anything regarding maintenance or otherwise in the community scheme. The managing agent on behalf of the body corporate stores information, whether it be in a filing cabinet on a cloud database system or on their computers. The managing agent shares the information with other owners and residents. I'll give an example. If I'm living on the bottom floor and I've got a leak from above, I would need the information from the other owner above so that I can communicate with them advising that there's a leak and has to be repaid. So the body corporate shares information and the last thing is we retain the information. So we keep it, we update it when necessary, when there's a change in ownership, we store it on our system. So that is how Poppy is applicable to sectional title schemes. Personal information examples. Yes, sorry. You can continue because what I was actually about to ask is to almost broaden what compliance then looks like because you're talking about importance of compliance but I know that you are getting paid just now. I'll do that. What do we mean by compliance? So personal information would be of your name, your ID number, your physical address, your marital status, your contact details. So that's the information that the body corporate does collect. So when we talk about compliance, there's a few aspects that a body corporate needs to consider and number one is Poppy created what's called information regulator who oversees was like a watchdog for Poppy compliance. They require that everybody corporate or sectional title scheme registers an information officer. It could be a trustee, it could be the chairperson of the trustees, it could be the building manager, the estate manager, it could even be a managing agent although I don't recommend that because it's a massive risk that the person takes on. Breaking down compliance, you register yourself as an information officer and you then now start with how to comply. So I've been dealing with as Linda who you mentioned earlier who's been assisting body corporates with Poppy compliance. She's been helping drafting what's called a Poppy manual which essentially is a document highlighting how the body corporate is how to pop is applicable to the body corporate, how they can comply and what they are doing to comply as we speak. So if the information regulator had to come to the managing agent's office and ask how is XYZ body corporate complying with Poppy, they can present the manual and show how they are complying. I know the manual it's a piece of paper but I do stress want to stress the importance of body corporates by their managing agents must ensure compliance with the document. It can't just be a piece of paper that's that's sitting on a desk somewhere. The information officer via the managing agent can then start with ensuring that the information collected is stored safely. There's adequate firewalls etc in place and they must enforce the requirements strictly. I have of course an evening in conversation with Leanne Harrison. We're talking about an overview of the effects of the Poppy Act on sectional title schemes and I know it's one of those conversations that a lot of us might think you know it doesn't apply to us because somebody else who needs to ensure that we're compliant but the reality especially when we live in sectional title communities is there's somebody who has all our information and oftentimes it is the managing agent and the body corporate or the trustees rather not even the body corporate because we're all members of the body corporate but the trustees have access to some of this information as well. So you want to make sure that the people who handle very sensitive information about yourself that could potentially if in the wrong hands could have damaging effects for yourself sometimes even your finances and we've seen sometimes in cases you know of identity theft being done when some of our personal information isn't adequately stored or properly stored and really better understanding what body corporates or sectional title schemes need to adequately do in order to ensure that by the time they need to be compliant now Leanne I mean one of the big things that you're seeing about is you know the role of the information officer or the compliance officer and as for your recommendation you you know you recommend that ideally it shouldn't be somebody who is it shouldn't be the managing agent you almost want to keep that slightly separate because it may you know help with making sure that there's a bit of accountability I mean if we look at where even those I know want to almost preemptively get themselves ready how do you go about essentially doing so. So I think the first thing that someone has to do a body corporate or group of trustees when they want to become compliant they need to approach the managing agent and look at approaching a consultant like tvdm consultants who've been assisting and we have a grasp on the act already you know they've been you know they've been researching for a few months now and sit down and do an analysis the poppy manuals that tvdm are creating have a step-by-step breakdown of how a body corporate can become compliant then what they have to do is hand the information to somebody to draft this manual and once complete and then I think it's it's very important to do an audit of the managing agent's actual physical office to see where the information is there that's being stored whether it be on the computers the filing cabinets it's important that things are locked away so it's a it's a physical inspection going to check are the computers being locked every night or shut down are the filing cabinets are they are they locked with this with a key who has access to that information and it's important that body corporates understand that non-compliance isn't just the paper it's written on you can get a fine of up to 500 000 to a million rand there is penalties there's imprisonment up to say that they would go that far but it's important that they understand the severity of the non-compliance another aspect is how the information officer needs to continually ensure compliance they need to check by annually look at how information is being stored how it's been destroyed where is it being destroyed they have to in they they are the ones that will investigate any breaches so if for instance a whole stack of identity documents go missing they are the ones accountable that have to make sure they know where the information went was stored and what the potential reason was for the breach that's very important for body corporates to sit down and analyze where the key aspects are get someone to assist them who knows the act already because it's been out for quite a while and start that process now lianna i think when when when we look at you know what the property access and ways in which a lot of sectional taxes in communities can begin to get into a place where the best position to be compliant perhaps you know shed some light on what mistakes can they avoid as they almost work with their managing agent put in and put in place a compliance officer what are some of the mistakes they should almost be emptied try to avoid in order for them to sort of best manage the process as much as possible look number one it's don't take it so likely it must be taken seriously because personal information is either has been out there and even as something as simple as you know get a phone call from talcom want a contract someone has given my information to that person and they've taken my id number they've taken my cell phone number so it's important that they don't make the mistake of doing something then doing that doing it themselves just ease but all of them are late or late persons well not everyone they're professionals they work wherever they do rather outsource it to someone that that has the expertise that's knowledgeable on the on the act you know someone like myself I'm an attorney by profession and funny example interpretation of statute adversity I hated and I realized how important it is and I when I look at a piece of legislation I can understand it better than somebody who is a financial manager for SAV so it's important that they don't do it rather get someone to assist them it's a small fee to pay for a lifetime of compliance if that makes sense definitely yeah and you know yeah I actually wanted to ask you about the I'll say the rise of let's call them consultants when it comes to working in you know body corporates I know some are even able to be a trustee you're able to have somebody who's not necessarily an owner and essentially have almost a professional trustee as it were you know pay them a fee you know do you see a rise of those kinds of services especially as we would look at the nature of the legislation around sectional title management as you're saying a lot of trustees typically don't have the know-how they are more and more of us live in institutional title communities more and more of us complaining about certain things and so many things that sometimes as we see new developments being built some of the you know some of the units that we're moving into are relatively faulty so even trying to mitigate some of those you know complaints you find it ends up being a legal issue as opposed to just a simple or the body corporate is going to cover this so having a fundamental understanding of what the legislation is how to best resolve it where to go for a quick resolution is increasingly becoming so important so do you see sort of the rise of the consultants when it comes to the sectional title community sort of you know increasing as it were I mean I know there are quite a few now that are on the rise but I feel as though more and more you essentially need them as opposed to it being a nice to have service so in my experience and I've seen it trustees or have full-time jobs so most of the time we have our meetings after hours number one and generally they only you know we struggle with with getting communication with them on email because they're all busy they don't have time to effectively assist the managing agent with the running of the body corporate the role of a professional trustee or a consultant or an executive managing agent is very important because with the introduction of the sectional title legislation a few years back and now with Poppy the role of a trustee is becoming more and more important because you are you know in essence trustee is trust owners are putting trust in you to effectively manage a scheme so the role of someone who has the know how who has the time who has the expertise and the experience to effectively run a body corporate is very important you know we spend lots of money in purchasing sectional title units and we want that piece of mind that the body corporate is compliant in terms of the risk financially in all aspects we want that piece of mind so it's very important that you get someone who you are comfortable with and who has the know how and the expertise to manage the compliance and risk aspects of a body corporate you there yes apologies there and as you were saying um so like I just mentioned you know the importance of having someone who has the know how expertise knowledge experience is very important because with the rise of sectional title legislation in 2016 and now with Poppy the role of a trustee is more and more important because there is so much and a managing agent there is so much uh compliance and you know boxes to tick for a body corporate that it is it is almost vital that you get someone involved that can assist you and guide you besides your managing agent someone with you know even a legal background um I work with Zalinda on a few on a few body corporate matters and just having that extra experience expertise really really helps to make sure that you are um complying with with legislation or any other matter that um the body corporate is unsure about and needs an extra person to assist we are taking your questions and comments on the private property podcasters we talk about uh the poppy act uh when it comes to sectional title communities on facebook we've got Shorinda asking what effect will it have to estate agents who are still using a traditional method of cold calling when looking for stock and we see that quite a lot in the end I mean I get a lot of calls you know in your own particular property they have access to your information and they'll call you to find out whether you're selling and if you're you know looking to rent it out sometimes I want to do a free evaluation does it have an effect or will it have an effect on estate agents who typically do that most definitely because a lot of the times agents who are owners in sectional title schemes have access to the information and they were then utilised for that purpose or they approach us to obtain the information so they can do the cold calling now the act specifically says information processed must be for the purpose a specific purpose where it means to for the management of the scheme so cold calling does not align with the purpose of managing a scheme therefore they can't do it and it will it will it will be seen as a breach we've got another question it's actually relatively similar I think you've partially answered it there and this one is coming from Umat Lashengang asking is a managing agent allowed to share members information with other owners please pardon me if this has already been covered so sharing of by the managing agents yeah other owners are they allowed to do so poppy says that you can whatever you are doing if it's lawful you can do it so in terms of the sectional title schemes management act you can provide information about from for other of other owners if you are doing it for a specific purpose so if you are complying with the STSMA and in effect um defying poppy you've permitted to do so but again for a specific purpose and for that purpose only mustn't be for anything untoward it must be a reasonable request so it is it is permitted you know again what I've typically found is when quantitative details have been shared or another owner's details has been shared with me has been in the event of chopping all the properties as an issue downstairs and there has to be a way that we must try and resolve it will change other's content details and vice versa but it's really for you know promotional purposes or something that hasn't that doesn't have to do with we'll say the actual admin of whatever the issue that we are currently dealing with I mean I know with one of the properties we had a with a plumbing issue and they put all of us in one group who are affected by that particular issue so we can try and find a you know a time when the plumber can come and sort it out so there have been those few instances where you know content details have been shared and typically the managing agent actually first asks if I'm okay with my content details being shared with another owner so that we are able to find a way to resolve something quickly because you often don't want to go knocking on somebody's door in as much as they may literally be next door or just below you but you know yeah before I let you go this evening any final tips for our viewers at home who many of them are either you know renting an exceptional title but certainly also have bought into exceptional title what should we almost be the big takeaway from this conversation especially when we look at how we're going to go to our managing agent to figure out what they are going to be doing in order to ensure that we're compliant any for our viewers at home so I think the most important take from this is that one July isn't that far off and people think no we you know largely they thought okay we've got a year it's fine you we're down the first of March got four months another thing to take away from this is the information regulator must receive registration of the information officer by the end of March which is in 30 days so I think it's very important that body corporate start with their compliance now as opposed to later and that they approach the managing agent approach someone external and get them to start and get get an analysis going as to how they're going to become compliant. Welcome back to episode 210 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host Uzaman Dunwar Komalo. Well it isn't a Monday and certainly the first of March if you don't have a few technical glitches I feel as though the Grimlins are slightly jealous of the amazing streak that we have had so we're going to blame it on Monday blues as well as a new month blues now that that's out of the way. Leigh Ann thank you so much for you know sharing a large number of this particular one and I'm sure that a lot of viewers have certainly found it quite insightful. One of the things that you're saying is we should definitely use services of you know consultants or explore using services of consultants and if sometimes it's not even you know to be a trustee but certainly look at the training aspect where they work with trustees in order to best put that to deal with some of the decisions that they need to make. Most definitely training compliance and start tomorrow. And that's definitely a great note to leave it there. Leigh Ann thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thanks so much Shama thanks everyone for joining and listening. And that is Leigh Ann Harrison who is a portfolio manager at Pam Golding Property Management Services. Well that brings to an end of the Monday edition of the Private Property Podcast with myself. It's been a bumpy road but now that the bumpy road is down and it's out of the way I'm sure that it's going to be an incredible month ahead and we're going to be back on your screens tomorrow evening at 7 p.m. until then hoping you're staying home and staying safe. I'm Rick Middling I'm an Olympic gold medalist and shareholder and marketing director of all the V.S. States which recently acquired Pearl Valley estate. I've been living in the beautiful Paul Frontier Valley for the last five years. We are situated right in the heart of the Cape Wildlands. Security is our number one priority and it's something we work on every day and this has earned us the reputation of being the safest estate in Africa. The lifestyle that this area has to offer truly is country living at its best. We're just five minutes away from the historic town of Pearl. Pearl really is an incredible area to explore with little gems like the spice root and Fairview farms. But the biggest attraction is the excellent schools. French Hook on the other hand is a major international tourist destination and also known as the culinary capital of South Africa with a diverse offering for every palette and occasion. Our recent acquisition of Pearl Valley is a major game changer for us. Our residents can now enjoy a wide range of amenities unmatched anywhere else in the world. There's the world famous Jack Nick the signature golf course which is consistently ranked among the top golf courses in South Africa and there are some beautiful properties on the course. Folder V really is the ideal family environment. We also cater to equestrian lovers with facilities on offer for every discipline from the two Hurlingham standard polar fields to our state-of-the-art equestrian centers and miles of trails. Our horses live in paradise too. Folder V has its own wine farm and cellars producing award-winning wines which every resident can be proud of. I've been blessed to travel the world but this is the place I come home to. I'm sure you can see why we call it the valley of life and this is my neighborhood.