 And just wait for Michelle a few minutes. It's recording now. Hi, Hala, how are you? Say that again? I was saying hello to Sister Hala, one of the members of the assembly. Abdallah, do you know if Earl's gonna be able to make it today? I do not know. I'll text him. Hi, everyone. Hi, Michelle. Hi. So we're at the dentist's office or we're getting ready to leave. Okay. So I'm making you and Abdallah the co-host because I'm worried that I might lose reception on the route. And so I've also recorded. So I think if I give you co-host, it'll be recording on your end too. That way we can make sure the meeting gets posted at least until I get into the office. So I would just ask that you keep an eye on the attendees because sometimes a few folks come in that way. They just hop on that way. Absolutely, yes. And welcome, Abdallah. Thank you for being here. Nice to see you. Thank you. I'm also in the car, so. No worries. This is life. But I'm parked, so it's okay. Okay, good. Jennifer, just so I know, so you, so attendees, how do I know if an attendee has been let in? So they show up in the attendees, but how do I know that they can hear us and that they're here? So the attendees can hear us, but if you, there's like a dot, dot, dot, I believe over the attendees, do you see the attend, there's two attendees now. Yes, I do. And it should say like promote to panelists. And so once you do that, it should bring them in. And if they're just commenting during public comment, then I just enable them to speak. And then I disable that when they're done speaking as opposed to making them co-hosts. I mean, panelists, sorry. Perfect, okay. And so I will see all attendees that come in. There's not like another place that they come and then go to attendees. No, I just saw Yvonne, did she hop in? Yeah, she's here. So I'm gonna go, because then I'll be back to the office faster and be able to link in that way. Great, thanks, Jennifer. Yep. Hi, everyone. Nice to see you. So we don't have a quorum yet. And I did hear, or do we? We do, we do have a quorum. We have four. Yes, I wasn't counting myself for a second. I did hear from Alexis that she will not be able to join us today. And I'm just going to quickly just text Dr. Shabazz and see, just to let him know we're on here in case he forgot. Perfect. So I'm gonna call the meeting to order. And let me just grab my agenda here. So I am calling the April 11th meeting of the African Heritage Reparation Assembly to order at 11.19. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. So let's do a quick check just to make sure that everybody can be heard and can hear us. And we'll start with you, Dr. Rhodes. I'm here. Excellent, and Hala. I can hear you all. Great, we can hear you too. And Yvonne. I'm here. Okay, great. So let's see here. We are going to just maybe, I'm gonna review our agenda quickly and then, so maybe giving Dr. Chabaz another minute to get here if he'll be coming before we welcome our presenters. And we'll talk a little bit about that in a second. So the items that we really need to focus on today are we have two presenters and that's Rabbi Debra Jacobson and Jeff Gold. And they're coming to present and talk to us about the Stolen Beam series that they created and a potential partnership with the Jones Library in promoting and offering that event to Amherst community members. And then we do have to go over the Mass Humanities Grant, review the LOI and make sure we're ready. It does have to be submitted by 11.59 p.m. this evening. So that's a definite. I'd like to be able to review the sort of, actually get a sense from you all about the Black African American census that we had a presentation on last week. And then we do have our community survey. I think we need a little bit more time on that. I've heard from some members still waiting on some questions there. So before anything else, any questions on any of the agenda items? Okay, great. So Dr. Chabaz, I think is about to join us. And in the meantime, hang on one second. I'm gonna welcome our guests into the room. So Devorah and Jeff, I don't normally do this. So just give me a second. I think I'll be able to get you in here. All right, let's see. Oh, there's Rabbi Jacobson. And let's see, there you are. Nice to see you. And I think let's see what happened with Jeff here. He should be coming in in a second. Welcome, Jeff. You're right. There you are. Nice to see you. Okay. So I'd love it if we can just give about 10 more seconds for Dr. Chabaz to get here because nobody wants to have to say things twice, especially if they prepared. So we'll just give him another second to get here. How are you both doing? Good? I'm doing okay, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Been a bit of a ride for me recently, but I'm doing fine. Thank you. Oh, okay. All right. Well, I wish you good. Michelle, yeah, thanks for asking. That's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's always nice to have guests at our meetings. Michelle, maybe you can introduce everyone or approve the minutes while you're waiting for Dr. Chabaz. Yeah, I'm gonna wait for introductions just until Dr. Chabaz gets here, but I think approving the minutes is possible because I don't see him yet. So we have three sets of minutes to approve November 10th, the December 2nd and the December 16th. So thank you, Jennifer. Has everybody had a chance to review the minutes that were in the packet and feel prepared to vote on those? Okay, great. Dr. Rhodes, you good with voting on the minutes? Definitely good. Okay, and Yvonne? Yes. Okay, good. Okay. Sorry, Yvonne. Nope, I'm gonna just go ahead and Jennifer, we can vote them all at once. Is that right? One motion? Yes, you can. Okay, perfect. So I am going to move to approve the meeting minutes for November 10th, 2021, December 2nd, 2021 and December 16th, 2021. Is there a second? Hala, Lord's second. Excellent, thank you, Hala. And we'll do a roll call vote. Yvonne? Yes. Yes. Sorry, yes. It's okay, Hala. Lord, aye. Dr. Rhodes? Or am I? Okay, and I am also an aye. All right, so those are... Jennifer, did you get that? Those all passed. Got it. All right, and I think we have Dr. Shabazz here. Hang on, here we go. He's gonna come in. There he is. Hi, Dr. Shabazz. Hello. He's gonna have to get rid of something here. All right, good. Oh, I think that works now. Okay, good to see you and welcome. We just approved some meeting minutes. I heard. Okay, good. And now I am going to introduce our special guests today. We have Rabbi DeVore Jacobson and Jeff Gold, who are both local activists, members of the reparations committee of the Jewish Community Center of Amherst, and the creators of the Stolen Beam series. And I just wanted to say I've come to know them over the past couple of years doing this work and have come to know them as wonderful, caring, and humble human beings deeply committed to this work of reparations, both locally and nationally. So I'm really happy to have them both here. And if you recall, probably now a couple months ago, we started to talk about educational opportunities that we could offer to the community. And the Stolen Beam series was one of those opportunities and the syllabus has been placed in the packet a couple of times now. So hopefully everyone has had an opportunity to look at that. I've personally facilitated a Stolen Beam series. It was an incredibly deep and rich experience both for myself and I think I can speak for Matthew, who was the co-facilitator, as well as the folks that were there. And it was a really great, not only a learning experience in the way of reparations, but also a place to have discussion about these things where that's not often, you don't often have that opportunity to unpack things once you've taken information in. So we're gonna let Jeff and DeVora talk more about that. But I also want to mention that you'll see on the agenda, the Jones Library is offering a Stolen Beam series. And when DeVora brought that to my attention, I thought it would be an excellent opportunity for the AHRA to be in partnership with the Jones Library to do that. One, because I think it will be good just in terms of sort of the community engagement piece and what we're trying to do. And they have their constituent base and we have our constituent base and we'd be able to reach more people by having that collaboration. So before I hand it over, I just wanna check in with assembly members if you would quickly just introduce yourselves to DeVora and Jeff and maybe you might know them already and then we'll hand it over and they can do any introductions they'd like to do that I didn't cover and then we'll go from there. So maybe Dr. Shabazz, we could start with you. Hello, Milcar Shabazz, me too. And Yvonne. Hello, Yvonne Mendez, Amherst resident. And Err. Err, long time Amherst resident and an elected member of the school committee. And Hala. Hala, Lord. And I've been honored to be in some services in JCA over the past 20 years. All right, so I'm gonna pass it over to you, DeVora and Jeff and you can take it from here. Thank you so much, everybody. It's great to be with you today and a special thanks to you, Michelle. You know, obviously there's so much that we feel grateful for in our partnership. So we did want to come before you all today and talk a little bit about the stolen beam series. Jeff is gonna really focus on that piece, the content of the stolen beam and its impact on those who have taken the facilitated class. I wanna just sort of lay the groundwork by describing some of the work that we've been doing at the JCA this last, these last two years. So since the murder of George Floyd, given the tremendous interest in activism and in creating a space for, I'd say increased activism at the JCA, a new racial justice plank or prong at the JCA was created and that structure is called CEDEC, otherwise the Hebrew word for justice. And it was kind of an umbrella for a number of different subcommittees, one of which was the reparations subcommittee. And that's our committee, that's the work that we've been doing these last two years. And we were joined by 16 other members of our community, including one that I think most of you know, Michael Burkhart, who was a great source of learning and guidance for us. And we decided to dedicate the first six months of our efforts together to educating ourselves, to studying together the primary sources on reparations written by thought leaders on the topic throughout the country. And so we did that, we spent six months, all of us reading kind of a deep dive into the topic of reparations. And in addition to that, after that first period, that first six months, we then focused on internal education at the JCA. So we felt like we had sort of learned more over the first six months. And now we wanted to kind of bring our fellow congregants into the educational process. And so we embarked on a variety of discussions, open forums, tech studies, circulating essays on reparations to the entire community. And in addition, we asked our adult education committee at the JCA to offer a class which we named the Stolen Beam. And Jeff, I think we'll say a little bit more about that title, which is taken from a passage in the Talmud, in the rabbinic literature of Jewish tradition. And so we offered this class, which was really modeled on our own study together as a committee, and we put out the registration information. And immediately, like within a couple of days, we got 65 people who signed up. And we knew we could only really handle maybe 60, maybe 50. We didn't think we could go past 65. So at that moment, we closed the registration, but that's just to say there was an enormous amount of interest in the topic. So the adult education committee sponsored the class. We broke up into three sections. We had facilitators facilitating each of the sections and we spent five weeks together with fellow congregants discussing, debating, airing, reflecting on this topic of reparations. In addition to that adult education offering, we engaged in advocacy at our synagogue, urging the JCA Board of Directors to publicly endorse passage of HR 40. We engaged in a process and ultimately that process was successful and the Board of Directors unanimously endorsed HR 40 and is on record for doing so. We had initiated outreach with Matthew and Michelle and reparations for Amherst and that exchange and collaboration continued throughout year one. Then let me just describe briefly year two where we went from focusing on internal work at the JCA to now external work in our local community and beyond because what we decided was this stolen beam series really seemed to have some merit to it. And we wondered and we wanted to see if we could disseminate it far and wide with the curriculum, with the guidelines for best practice facilitation and with the extensive bibliography that you will see within the manual when you're able to take a look at it. And so we began to put out feelers and make phone calls and just pursue all kinds of contacts. And it's been a really interesting journey for us. We have now held stolen beam classes at a variety of places, interfaith, secular, so I mentioned interfaith, secular places like the UCC Church in Long Meadow, the Pelham Library, Reparations for Amherst, Conrogation Benay Israel, Conrogation Beta Hava, et cetera. We have also managed to connect with the national offices of the reform movement in Judaism and the reconstructionist movement in Judaism. So talking to people at the national level and their interest in possibly using the stolen beam series. And in fact, the reconstructionist movement has used the stolen beam series parts of it to educate their board of governors and they are currently piloting the series with at least 10 of their member congregations around the country. We have also continued to connect and reach out to various racial justice groups locally in the state and around the country, including we have connected with Kathleen Anderson and Encobra, the work of Encobra. We have connected with a reform synagogue and leaders in Evanston, Illinois, who were very involved and continue to be involved in the reparations effort there. And we have also connected with King Boston and engaged in the statewide reparations conversations. And in addition, we have connected with the Boston workers circle, which is doing tremendous programming and advocacy on behalf of reparations. Finally, I would say the stolen beam series has recently been nominated for a national prize called the Dan Cedarbound Prize offered by the reconstructionist movement after a leading figure in that movement. We are waiting to hear whether we have in fact won the prize, but it was an honor just to be nominated. Thank you, and I'll turn it over now to Jeff. Thank you, DeVora, and hello again. It was a few months ago, I think I can't remember exactly when I spoke to the AHRA a number of months ago. So hello again. In the short time that I have, I'm just going to review rather quickly some of the curriculum and some of the process of the stolen beam. I'll begin with the name itself very quickly. The stolen beam is a reference to a rabbinic deliberation in an ancient Jewish text about the right thing to do when we discover that the house in which we live was built with a stolen beam. One rabbi argues that the entire house must be torn down and the beam returned. Another rabbi argues that it makes no sense to destroy the home, yet some form of acknowledgement and compensation is owed to the owners of that stolen beam. Thus the metaphor for the realization that our country was built on stolen land with stolen lives and stolen labor. To speak about the stolen beam curriculum and its philosophy in just a few short minutes is a mighty task I think, but I'm gonna try to do it. So please bear with me. The overarching goal of the stolen beam curriculum is perhaps sadly to offer an alternative viewpoint on American history. The curriculum includes leading thinkers like Tana Hasey Coates, Nicole Hannah-Jones, Susan Neiman, William Darity and Kirsten Mullen and Richard Rothstein, just to name a few. The purpose of this curriculum and its seminar style format is not to provide answers for the participants, but to create a safe intellectual and emotional space where participants can discuss this alternate perspective and assess at both an individual and group level the need for reparative justice. We do this through open-ended questions and facilitators who are not only very familiar with the syllabus material, but who are also committed to the reparative process. There is also room in the stolen beam for dissent. Writers who do not fully agree, quote unquote, with the idea of reparations who have questions about its logistics or practicalities, et cetera, as a way to examine the complexities of this issue and challenge participants in their own thinking. We have found this methodology assists individuals and the group itself to arrive at deeper meanings and understand the concepts of reparative justice that the concepts of reparative justice are complex and compelling. The stolen beam covers American history, but like Taa Nahasi Coates now famous essay, the stolen beam also considers the idea of spiritual renewal and it's linked to reparative justice. In past groups, we have considered multi-faith explorations of ethics and the spiritual dimension of reparations. We have found some common themes emerging from past stolen beam groups, which Deborah already alluded to, which we would hope we could replicate in Amherst. Often people say, why haven't I learned this before? Or why wasn't I taught this in my own schooling? These comments appear especially relevant in these times when many school boards are in a reactive mode. Others have experienced this course as transformational, newly engaging or deepening their own commitment to racial justice work. We welcome the AHRA's questions and comments and we thank you for allowing us to present the stolen beam to you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jeff and DeVora. Thank you. It was really helpful and rich. And so I'd like to open it up to assembly members to ask any questions. And again, just to put some context into this, the stolen beam series is a tool for us to use to be able to engage and educate mostly white folks in the community. And we have this opportunity and I'll let DeVora and Jeff tell us just in terms of timing. We have an opportunity to partner up with the Jones Library for a series that's to begin in May, but we need to make sure that the assembly approves doing so. And I also want to point out that Jeff and DeVora have offered a curriculum that is specific for AHRA to use and that's what's in your packet. So if we go off on our own to offer this and engage community, we can use that curriculum. And so please raise your hand if you have a question or comment that you'd like to share. And I will call on you. Okay, Irv? First DeVora and Jeff, I really appreciate you taking time to be with us this afternoon. The whole metaphor of the stolen being as it relates to reparations is incredibly powerful. The Talmud and all of its glory is a very powerful way of us intercepting with this world and with God, as those know him. I have no idea how you're using this in your work, in your seminars, in the forums that you have, that you're doing, but my goodness, just that metaphor is strong and encapsulates, really, the issues, problems, contradictions, et cetera, of reparations. And so I really appreciate the work that you're doing and I look forward to engaging with it more fully. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Irv. Sorry, I was muted there. Would anyone else like to ask a question or make a comment? One more thing. I think one of the things that struck me and because I am a person who has been deeply embedded and involved with intellectually with Martin Buber and that, and when I go back over to stolen being and look back and reflect on all the things that I've read in relationship to him, the, especially I in doubt is especially powerful. So again, I think it's, I'm hoping that this series takes root in Amherst. And we'll talk as an assembly a little bit later about how the particulars of using it and the possible partnership with the library. I think I saw Hollis hand and then Yvonne. I definitely want to express a deep depth of gratitude, profound gratitude for this work. Whenever there were times when Rabbi Weiner would show up at Goodwin, it's a black church in town after police had murdered another black person in this country. And he would get up and talk about state sanctioned violence and how we can come together and support each other. And you really have put this into action. So I appreciate it's not just sitting in study circles which are valuable, but this is something that's able to be repeated and spread. This question is maybe a little off topic, but do you have a vision or a plan of how to share this, how to get it out more? Is it gonna be a for sale on Amazon? Is it one of those downloadable PDFs? I would love to hear beyond Amherst but I think we could really embrace this, how it can grow and live and breathe if you don't mind answering. Go ahead, Jeff, and I'll follow. I'll take a swing at that, Hollis. Thank you very much for your comments. And Dr. Rhodes, I'm particularly touched by what you said. Buber has been very meaningful to me as well from my college days on. So I deeply appreciate what you just said. It's not gonna be a sale on Amazon, at least we have no thoughts in that direction. But what I wanna say in response is that we devised and purposely strategize the availability of the stolen beam freely. And that it is available to anyone or any group that would like it. And they are free to use it and adapt it to their particular needs. We see it as, and I hate to use this word, but it's the word that we've been using. We see it as a living document. And indeed, we've already been through many revisions of it, and I'm sure that as we learn more and as more writing on reparations occurs, we will try to integrate and incorporate that into the syllabus and into the manual. Our attempts at dissemination as Devorah made reference to has mostly, I think it's fair, mostly been within the larger Jewish community. It finally made it to the West Coast to the San Francisco, the Public Policy Committee of the San Francisco Jewish Community Relations Council requested it. And it's also made it to some temples in North Carolina. So there has been dissemination, but we're a bunch of rookies when it comes to that aspect of things. I think we're all local folks and each of us has some knowledge in different areas, but I don't think any of us is a marketing expert. So I think that's my best shot at answering your question. I would emphasize the flexibility of the document and the fact that we always wanted to just put it out there and not claim proprietary rights, if you will. And can I, I was concerned a little bit, so I just really wanna thank you for doing it from the heart and not to profit off the stories of us. So thank you for that. Thanks, Hala, appreciate the question and the interest. I would also add that we have asked groups that are choosing to use the Stolen Beam series to consider a donation to reparations for Amherst. So we of course don't see ourselves as wanting at all to profit, but really to put the learning into action and move forward with supporting local and national reparations efforts. I would also add I had an interesting conversation yesterday with someone you all may know, Professor Tom Gardner, who teaches at Westfield, and he is putting together a three-part series for our congregation on the civil rights movement. Dr. Shabazz actually, I believe you're gonna be one of the speakers for that series, we're grateful. And Tom said he had a wonderful conversation with a colleague and a friend from the movement a couple of days ago in preparation for speaking with me, Professor Simmons in Florida, she's gonna be part of this three-part series. And she heard about the Stolen Beam from him and said, you know, I think people around here would be very interested in something like that. So I think kind of like Jeff was saying, we're still trying to figure out an efficient rollout for the Stolen Beam and that's sort of why we've tried to go to some of the national movements, either in the Jewish tradition, I asked a colleague of mine in the UCC tradition if we could speak to or try to get to some of the folks there nationally. So if you have any other suggestions, we certainly would welcome that. Thank you. Thank you, Deborah and Yvonne. I just wanted to thank you for coming and for showing some genius in the work that you're doing similar to what Hala said about just really getting it out there and having it be something that is not really for profit, but for the common good. And I appreciate that very much. I think that's a great thing. And I've seen a lot of folks, it's refreshing. I guess I'll leave it at that. I've seen in the fervor of everyone to be all like PC creating things that don't seem as genuine and for the common good and I'm glad to see this. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you so much. Because everybody's rushing to be like, oh my God, we have to have some diversity thing. Let me say even the groups that our diversity base are jumping in, trying to like what has to be high profile because that's the like the end thing to do now and then it's only half thought through. It's half baked and I've had to kind of argue with people to know that you're ignoring what diversity and equity actually means by what you're doing. So I'm glad to see you guys are leaders in this in that way. Thank you. Thank you so much. We have received some questioning and or critique from a minority, but it's been interesting because their feeling is, you know, we're not quickly jumping into action soon enough and our feeling and we remain committed to the fact that we need to study, we need to educate ourselves, we need to do a deep dive into this material so we can emerge more knowledgeable as we embrace and take further action. So education and action are for us very, very linked. Yes, indeed. Okay, Dr. Shabazz, did you have any comments or questions to add before we? Well, I don't wanna take up too much time or space. I look to give more specific feedback as I digest more of the overall curriculum. One of the pieces I do look forward to really getting into sometimes watching the 32 minutes I have and as yet as Rabbi Sharon Ruzas, Rosh Hashanah Sermon to really try to grapple a little bit more with it all. I think definitely there must be some adaptation, at least as I think about certain African heritage communities and how the story of reparations is told how the movement is engaged within that community. You know, because it touches some things very deep, you know, you can't just come and say, hey, let's start reading some things, let's start talking about some things because without knowing what all it can bring up. You know, I'm looking, Tom Gardner I think knows and he raised a section on Selma to Montgomery that I'll be speaking on. You know, again, that brings up so much for me. Having been across the John, I'm calling it the John Lewis Bridge, but the old Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, having been met the people who were beaten besides John Lewis whom I met as well, but other people who were beaten severely on that bridge, having met the family of the man who's martyred them sparked that movement because originally it was supposed to be from Marion to Montgomery, Marion, Alabama, Jimmy Lee Jackson, the martyr of the cause, you know, to meet his family when I lived in Alabama, to walk the street and to go to the place where his grandmother, you know, where people were being beaten and he tried to shield their bodies from the blows of his family member and then he gets taken and gets beaten to death. You know, it brings up so much, but the only other thing I'd say is in answer to the rabbinical question is, yeah, I wouldn't say burn the house down, but I guess I'm asking the question on the acknowledgement piece, you know, it's not just to pay, but it's what all goes into that acknowledgement, you know, there already speaks of the arc, acknowledgement, redress, closure. And that acknowledgement piece is not just the statement passed by the council, you know, it's not just what we're doing here, it's not just whatever historical timelines, but it's how we really acknowledge in our heart, in our soul and ways in which we continually display that acknowledgement and live that acknowledgement is what to me is really where if that house stays up, it's gotta be in our living practice. So thank you so much and look forward to be engaged further down the line. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Dr. Shabazz. Yvonne, I see your hand is still up. Did you have another? Okay. Well, thank you, Devorah and Jeff for joining us and for engaging in this conversation. And you are welcome to stay for the meeting. I'm gonna take you back into the attendees unless you have anything else you'd like to add. And then you'll either sort of hear our discussion here or and or I will follow up with you after the meeting and we can talk. And I just, I really wanna appreciate, you know, Dr. Shabazz, it sounds like you made some specific recommendations perhaps and just appreciating that there might be a way for further consultation to occur between Dr. Shabazz or any of the other assembly members who would be willing to continue to explore the content of the Stolen Beam series with you both. Great, yeah, it goes without saying that that is something we would appreciate and absolutely welcome. Yeah. Great. Alrighty, well, thank you. Have a great rest of your week and see you soon, yep. Okay, let's see here. Oh, Jennifer, are you back in action here? Okay, great. Thanks so much. That's great. All right. So I think. Let's go on. Yes, I think Jennifer is moving you. Sometimes if we're both trying it at the same time, it doesn't work. There we go. Can I just do a quick time check? What time does everybody have to be leaving today? Dr. Shabazz? Yeah, I have, I had scheduled something coming up around 4.15. Okay, great. And what about you, Dr. Shabazz? Likewise, need to leave about then the UMass, Donahue Institute is having an open house and I promise to pass through there. Awesome. Okay, and Hala and Yvonne, are you kind of in the same boat or do you have a little more flexibility? Yeah, I'm not. More flexibility, maybe till 4.30. Okay, so what I'm thinking then is if the three of us have until 4.30, let's save the letter of interest until the end. And if Dr. Shabazz and Irv are okay with that, we can talk about that and what that might mean in a second. And then we can continue on with the discussion. I would like to get some, we don't have to fully unpack the stolen beam and our thoughts around that at this moment, but because the Jones Library is going to start to market, if the African Heritage Reparation Assembly would like to commit to being a co-sponsor of that so that we will as an assembly show up on the marketing materials and what's going out to the community. And we can also send the materials out to our own communities. I would like to make sure that we're on board with that. So Dr. Shabazz and Irv, would you be, how do you feel about myself and Yvonne and Hala finishing the letter of intent for the mass humanities, expand Massachusetts Stories Grant together at the end of the meeting? Does that work for you? The question is, do we have to have a vote in order to submit it? And if we do have to have a vote to submit it, we should do that now. Yes, I agree. I don't think we need a vote if we have a consensus unless you all feel like you'd like to have it voted on. I think what Hala put together was great. I've added some to that based on the feedback I received from assembly members. And so I would pull that up a little bit later at 415 after we've done some of this other stuff. And then as long as you're okay with us submitting that, remember, this is just a letter of interest. It's not the full application for the grant at this point. Dr. Shabazz, are you good with that? Yes, I am. Okay. And I think you said you're fine with that too, Irv, right? Yes, I am fine with it. Okay, excellent. So then let's just have a brief conversation about the stolen beam. And if there are any thoughts to share in terms of how the AHRA can use the program. And if you are all comfortable with partnering with the Jones for the series that they will begin in May, which I believe is they're only opening it up to I think maximum might have been 20 people I should have asked. But I think I saw 15 to 20 people will be able to sign up for that because it will be an in-person series, I believe happening at the Jones. So does anyone have an objection to AHRA being a partner in that? So my, no real objection, whether in the, what I understand to be activities reading the syllabus or reading using the stolen beam curriculum at the and Jones library, I guess as a venue more or less. My concern as to the promotion or the partnering or the endorsement just really concerns with, you know, I think it's wonderful if the groups and that are curated or groups that come out are of whatever ethnic ethnic backgrounds. I just for myself, you know, recognize that for some members of the African heritage community, the discussions and the framework of the discussion would may, how do you wish to say, maybe deeply emotionally. Activating, like activating. Yeah, well, the, you know, so there's one thing to say, you know, as a more academic approach and certainly I'm looking at just some of the classes and the questions are all fine. I don't have any, anything, but I just feel as though you might find yourself, one might find themselves in a dynamic where, and particularly where it could very easily be the case where you might be one or two or the only one or two of the 20 in the room of African heritage. And it's sort of like, you know, when people are looking at you or as questions are raised, you know, how do you fit within the discussion? So again, I'm not saying that it has to be, that people of African heritage should not be in the groups in these discussions. I think that's on an individual to do. I just would be concerned where people are that hopefully there are some, so there can be a trusting kind of circle created similar to the way as we started our work, we took a moment to think about learning the ropes of safely kind of communicating around difficult issues. So that's about all I could say at this point. Thank you. And I think you're raising such an important point and I, in the group that I facilitated, it was all of the participants, but one was white and the one that wasn't was African American. And so it was interesting to sort of see the way that things were activated and to be able to hold the space for all of that. So I think, and I think Dora and Jeff are also aware of that. And we've had conversations about really, again, not excluding anybody, but really encouraging white folks to be part of this as an educational process that is really needed. So, Hala. I'm 100% agree. I've been doing a lot of work around the post-traumatic slave syndrome and healing, Dr. DeGray. And I don't know that we could say here's affinity, how you identify here, how you, like, do you identify as African heritage? Do I identify? And then maybe a mixed group, but I think it is also, it would be important to me to have those options. And I don't know if the, the stolen brain would allow that, but there is a lot of trauma activation and pain that comes up. And then when you're one of two, you know, it's like what we sort of deal with in Amherst anyway. So now we're recreating some of what we're, the harm that we're already going through. So thank you, Dr. Shabas for bringing that up. And yes, that's just my two cents, two and a half cents today. Go ahead, Irv. I'm sorry I muted myself again. I, I would, you know, I strongly lean in the direction of having this with an all African American group and all white group because I, I, I, because I think, you know, all of, you know, people all think that well, all the African Americans obviously believe in reparations. And that is not true. Not true at all. And so having the stolen beam as the sort of point of reference and all African American group would be quite interesting. And I certainly would love to see that happen. And I think Jeff is still listening in. So I think he has, and I know that he will communicate all of this to Bora as well. And I think that any sort of guidance that they could receive from members of the black community, the African heritage community would be, would be very much appreciated. And yes, Irv. One, one last thing. A cousin of mine recently completed a five year study of our family. Both genetically and historically. And our family goes all the way back to Jamestown. The indentured servants and came over. That was very powerful. Because from there, you went from indentured servants to slavery. Even though after they served their indentured period, they became slaves. An extraordinary event. So I know within our family, we're just starting to, just starting to discuss all of that in the meeting of all of that. And I have an extraordinarily large family. But anyway, I think it's when I see this, the stolen beam in terms of where we are as a family would be extraordinarily, extraordinarily helpful. As a way of centering our discussion. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. Thank you. A lot of people are doing that work these days and with so much available now to be able to go back and look at your history. It's really interesting. Jennifer, I see your hand is up. Yes, I just, Irv, you had said that. You thought it was important or one, it's encouraged that all African American and all white. Do you mean as one group or met separately? Okay. Thank you. I think it's separate groups. I think it would be just such a rich. Discussion among all African Americans using the stolen being. As a point of departure. Thank you. All right. So, oh yes. Dr. Schwarz. I'm in full agreement. I mean, there are many. Good pieces that are in it and many of the framework of the questions. Some of the. Areas that may get a little more. Very little more into religious discourse. You know, is something obviously that has to be. You know, juxtaposed. I never forget one time we had invited some folks here on a part of an intergroup dialogue and we had, you know, some, some places to visit and whatnot and didn't really think through how some of it was, you know, several of the things we were doing were linked with more or less a Christian tradition, maybe a black Christian tradition, but with a Christian tradition and there were, there were members there that, you know, were, oh, and we also took them up to the peace pagoda. And so some of the ones from the black Christian tradition were having a little problems with that. And then some of the ones who weren't from the black Christian tradition were having problems with, with, with, with some of the emphasis or some of the things that were coming through the black Christian tradition. So things can be a little, sometimes folks aren't always maybe as ecumenical as we might, we might hope they are, but, but definitely a lot of great pieces. I like the point that was raised about being able to adapt it to adapt it to different audiences, different contexts. So in the language of, that I think Hala offered, you know, I think if there could be opportunities and the organizing of this for there being a night in the series that might be or one series that's offered that's for specific affinity groups of white people, of, of people of African heritage. And then also one of where it's an open call, it's mixed, you understand it's going to be, it's going to be on a mixed basis, then that's fine. Then, then if you gave those options, then people could, you know, you see where, where it goes. If everybody's fine going in, in mixed groups, then that's fine. If some people would like to have a particular opportunity as white people to, to have these discussions and, and with folks that, you know, like themselves or just learning or just maybe dipping their toe into this. I think then there, there could be good space for that. And likewise within the African-American community, there are definitely a lot of things here that, you know, in the African heritage community, people are having necessarily read, people haven't necessarily engaged or thought about. I'm not saying at all, like everybody who, of African heritage is automatically an expert on all these, all of these matters that are in the curriculum far, far from it just really is more, has to do with more than an emotional, whether you create an emotional safe space to talk about what could be deeply, deeply emotional issues. Thank you. You know, I, I, I know that we're on a time constraint here, but one other question arises for me and I've already asked and discussed with Devorah and Jeff about this, because I had the same sort of sense that the way that African heritage people may be activated or that having mixed group could be challenging for certain people. The question I had was for a group that was African heritage only, would it also then mean having facilitators that were African heritage? Would that sort of coupling be in your minds important? And I'm very curious what your thought processes on that, because in terms of, again, we go back to this idea of, you know, black people coming forward and doing work and not being paid for it and shouldering the burden for, you know, and so that was one of the questions I had and I'm curious if there is any feedback for Jeff, who's still on the call about that. Anyone can jump in. Yeah. Yeah, I think what's laid out in the deep study that folks in Zidek Zidek have done, they are probably more than capable to facilitate the, you know, delivery of the stolen beam curriculum and especially if it would be either in a mixed group or in a affinity based group of non-African heritage people. So, you know, I think, I don't know that you necessarily needed paid or unpaid someone of African heritage to organize people to discuss the curriculum. But what about for the specific groups that would just be for African heritage folks? Would it be most appropriate to have African heritage facilitators for those groups as opposed to white facilitators? Well, I think in some ways, yes, because if you're, you know, people talk about trauma porn, you know, and some folks might sit there and you got a white facilitator bringing them a curriculum and then watching their reactions as they go through some things. No, nobody wants that. So sure, it would be great if in an all African heritage affinity based discussion of this that, yeah, the facilitators could be people of African heritage themselves. This has always been the idea with the kind of chat-and-chew format that was recommended. Yeah, exactly. You know, especially for Amherst, especially after the Black census and where we want to go with that. The discussion among, the discussion of this topic among African Americans, I think is essential here in Amherst. So, yes, it would be, the ideal situation would be that the facilitators were also African American. And usually I wouldn't come down on that side, but with this topic, I believe that, especially in Amherst, it would be very, very valuable and powerful to have that if we could pull off a group of 20 African Americans with this as well as facilitators being African Americans and Amherst, that would be very powerful. Absolutely. Yvonne, I'm going to come to you, but I saw Jennifer's hand was up, so I just want to check with you, Jennifer. Was that, yeah. Yeah, sometimes, like I'm not a member of the assembly, like I feel kind of passionate, I am, but I'm not, right? So, I actually went to a training the other day that was on race equity and it was the lead worse to people who were white. And I just, they were insensitive, not maybe purposefully, but they weren't able to adapt to the audience in the way that they needed to. So, the information that they would have wanted to get across was more insulting on my end. I'm not saying that necessarily the JCA would have someone who doesn't have the skills that come in, but it's, you know, and there's a part of it about being able to relate, like we can sit here as mothers and tell other people what it's like to have a child, but until you go through that pain, you just don't really know what that is, right? Like there's, we can't explain that to anybody. So, there's just an issue of relatability too, that I think hold very strong. Absolutely. Yvonne? Yeah, I was going to ask a question about, I know Kathleen Anderson has a affinity group and I'm wondering if that group is doing some of the work we're talking about as far as African-Americans getting together and talking through these things. I'm under the impression or understanding that mixed groups are also necessary to make, you know, to continue to have progress in this area. So I think it's important for us to have our own group, certainly what I'm calling an affinity group, which is we get to speak together and there is power and freedom in being able to organize, you know, within our group. But I'm, you know, I got an invite from Pat Anonibaku for another group. And so I'm wondering these other groups that are meeting, is that where this is happening? And should we get more information about those groups and also support, you know, this work, you know, that's happening within groups that are exclusively African-American? Would anyone like to respond to Yvonne's question? I'm going to have to leave, but I think that, yes, you know, there are going to be all kinds of different groups out there having discussions. The value that I see in using one particular format across all groups is that you have some uniformity in terms of how the material and questions and group process, et cetera, is handled. It doesn't mean that, you know, that's the only way to do it, but in terms of the way I feel is like, from what I know about the Stolman beam, it's just an incredibly good way of getting to a lot of issues amongst blacks only in a black-only group and for a mixed group or an all-white group. So I see this powerful, and I think that if that, if the floor and Jeff go forward with this and want to do some more training of facilitators, especially of African-Americans, then, you know, a call could go out for that to happen. Anyway, I must go on. I really appreciate today's discussion. It's been really great. I just want to make sure, if I'm hearing you right, you are comfortable with the HRA being in partnership with the Jones for their May series, and you would also like to see the HRA develop ways to promote the Stolman beam in affinity groups to be decided sort of and engaged by the HRA out into the community. Does that sound great? Thank you. Thank you for letting everything I think I'm saying. Thanks a lot, Michelle. Great. Thank you. See you. Yep. All right. And I know that you had to also leave Dr. Shabazz. Did that sort of sum things up for you as well? What I just said to her. I mean, what the, what the previso for, you know, the, the, the different options, possibly being there. You know, I think that was said about it being a living document, being something that can be adaptable. You know, BAM has, you know, the black assembly of Amherst, Massachusetts was created for the purpose of getting to, and working within the African heritage community in Amherst to promote the reparations conversation and thinking about what it would look like. That's what, that's what BAM came about to do. We've just been a little bit of a, of a holding pattern for, for different reasons and particularly trying to see if there was any support coming from AHRA, since they're supposedly these funds and gift funds and things to help the African-American community begin to do this. If there isn't fine, we're going to move ahead without any AHRA support, but that's, that's really where, where we've been. Yeah. Thank you for that, Dr. Shabazz. I know I owe you a response. And I, I am going to put that on our agenda for next week, because I think you missed a meeting where we talked about developing, I think what we called an operating budget for the AHRA that would, it would sort of make it transparent to the community that from the 206,000 plus now, because there might be some gift funds in there, we're setting aside X amount of dollars for an operating budget to do the types of things that BAM requested and that other things that we've talked about. So I'll put that on the agenda for next week. So just to clarify that. All right. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz, if you have to leave. Thank you. Okay. Now Jennifer, just. Okay. So we, so now we don't have a quorum. People had to leave, but because we've already been discussing the LOI, is it safe for us to continue? They, we have consensus that we can submit the LOI. We didn't do a vote for that. So it would really just be about the rest of us now working out. The details of that. So it can be submitted by tonight. So I'm going to say that we should adjourn the meeting and then I'm going to, I typically wouldn't keep recording, but I'm going to continue to record just for transparency purposes, but we should adjourn the meeting because Dr. Shabazz and Dr. Amilkar have, I mean, Dr. Rhodes have left. Yeah. Okay. So we can adjourn then. Wait, I have to do public comment. We cannot adjourn until we do that. Okay. So. Oh, Yvonne. We were supposed to be done at 430. Yes. I don't know how, how much more time is needed to. Yeah. Let's, I have a good, I have, I think I have a thought. Let me just, let me just see if, because I have to pick up my son too by five. There's no more pushing it for us here. So let's see if our, we do have one attendee. Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and make a public comment. Please raise your hand now. And I will read quickly the public comment statement. Let's see. Okay. During the public comment period, the chair will recognize members of the public when called on, please identify yourself by stating your full name, pronouns and residential address. Residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes. So we'll be able to make a public comment. If you're not engaged in a dialogue, or comment on a matter raised during public comment, but we will listen closely. And you could raise your hand now if you'd like to make public comment. Okay. So it does not appear that we have any public comment. So we're going to adjourn at 429 PM. And Jennifer is going to continue recording and then a plan for the LOI. I received feedback from Ivan. And then I received feedback about just a few minutes before our meeting tonight or today. From Alexis. And so I would like to be able to incorporate both of those pieces of feedback. I also went through and just sort of cleaned things up and got, let me see if I can. Let me ask you about what kind of content, questions, what kind of feedback you have for me to give? Are you all comfortable with me incorporating Ivan's feedback and Alexis' feedback into Holla's document cleaning it up and submitting it tonight? Or would somebody else want to take that on? I certainly don't have to be the one to do it, decisions. Okay. But I thought that previously that you had said, I did, I would submit it, right? Yeah. So I think that for those purposes, you're good, please don't make any decisions. I just want to let everybody know that Abdullah has come back. And I'm not sure what happened to earlier. There's lots of stuff going on. And it's a beautiful day. So Abdullah is the project manager for the Crest program. And so he is our funds and grant guy. So it's really awesome to have him be part of the team. And he's pretty fantastic. And he's doing the work with the numbers, which we definitely appreciate. So Abdullah, this is part of the HRA members. Yes. Nice to meet you all. And sorry, I had to drop out. I had to go into the doctor's office for a bit. You were there for most of the first part of the meeting, right? You were correct. Okay, good. Thank you. Yeah, I heard both, both presentations at the beginning. Awesome. Well, there was a great discussion. If you decide you want some late night TV, you can get the video and listen to it. I will definitely do that later just to catch up on it. Yes. Thank you so much, Abdullah. Yeah, thanks for being here. All right. So if there isn't an objection to me doing that, was there anything that you all wanted to add or make sure or we good based on what you sent me, Vaughn, and was there anything else? Good. All right, cool. Well, I will make sure to get it in. Thank you for all the work on it. I really appreciate it. And I'll send an email about our next meeting since we didn't get to discuss that. Michelle, I just want to give you kudos for remembering to promptly start and at what hour and at what time you say, I was like, oh, first time ever. Yeah, I was like, Jennifer's not, when you're here, I miss it, but when you're not, I'm like, oh, I've got it. I was plotting to have my son unmute me if need be because I was driving. So awesome. Hala, thanks so much for your hard work on it. It really looks really good. So yeah, thank you. Really great. And it was helpful to see your initial thoughts, Hala, and then how you put it into the format. So that was good to backfill. All right, everyone, we'll have have a great week and we'll see you soon. Thank you too. Bye.