 and welcome to Sini Pinoy. Join us as we peek into the creative minds. Behind some of our favorite Pinoy movies from the commercial blockbusters to the indie festival circuit winners, we'll explore movies of every imaginable genre, from drama, rom-com, horror, political to historical, creative, non-fiction. And the filmography of our guests today lists all of those films, all of those genres. His first full-length movie was a political thriller. He has written and directed for the Sheik Rattle and Roll franchise. And he is perhaps best known for the highest grossing period film in Philippine film history, Henry Luna. And Patrick, a UP Dileman alumnus from the College of Music. So composer, music composer, writer, editor, director, Gerald Tarog. Hello. Thank you for having me. Welcome. Oh, I'll ask first. You were originally doing music in our, in your college here. So I remember. You seem to have a close relationship with other film courses. I remember. So how did this affect your filmmaking? Actually, I took excess units to enter the film theory courses. The way I kind of transitioned was that, because I'm a composition major. So that's what we do. It's a bit like going to a theatrical event. So and then when I don't have any classes, usually I just watch movies in the film center. And then it's like connecting. Especially when I read Stanley Kubrick's quote, he said films should be more like music, that they're a progression of emotions. So it's like connecting the structure of a musical piece. It's the same way as you structure a story. So it has ups and downs in emotions, et cetera. So music is a big part of it. When you put it in the film, when you film it. And I remember you did the music and award-winning it in our work. The Damgo in Loteria. It's supposed to be one long take. Was it a challenge putting music there? And because it's a big role of music. It's like since a whole take of the film, what you do is you find a structure, or sections. And then you add a structure. So you identify the sections of the story. Which is that there are obvious sections despite of being one long take. So it's just a matter of sections and finding the arc of the characters. So you're a composer, right? But I assume also you're a musician. So when you score films, do you score on your own? So will it work or do you work with other musicians? Usually when I'm able to do what I'm doing. So the guitar, riffs, drums, you're the one who plays them? There are instances where I hire others when I don't have time or when it's a bit more complicated. So the work with music, the transition is more technical, maybe you're an editor. So most of your films you edit. Do you find anything musical? You write, you direct. So is the creative process different from that? Or is there music in editing and editing in music? Actually, whenever people ask me about my creative process, I find it difficult because since I do the script and then I do the music and editing also, the process is a bit jumbled. So sometimes I just write a script. I'm thinking about music. Or for example, when we shoot, I'm thinking about editing. So it's really moving. Is that a difficult thing? Or do you see that as a kind of obsession if you can give it to someone else? Or is that a strength? I don't know. Maybe someone else will say it. But let me give a slum book type of a question. So editor, director, etc., you all. What is your favorite job? The most fun for me is editing and scoring. Any particular film among your long list of films. You would say that's it. I enjoyed scoring Goyo, definitely. I had fun with that. Editing, maybe Bliss? Because it hurts in the head. It's a kind of heavy post-film. Editing and special effects and all these things. But that's the most fun for me. Because directing is mostly problem-solving. So the creative aspect of directing for me, you do it in preparation. But once you're on the set, it's more problem-solving. So the most fun for me is music and background music. Editing and music. Since they have the same musical approach. Does it take you a long time to edit? For example, a film like Bliss? It seems heavy in post. Or is it because you're thinking about it prior or is the process easier? It's on average for two months, usually. Two months for post-prod. Editing it. And then... Yes, it's different. Music and whatever. But let me go to specifics. He said Goyo, though, is... But in terms of... Maybe I'll go to content. Sure. You're writing it, et cetera. I noticed that... Just like what you want to say, I don't know if I'm just reading it. It's like what you said to General Luna is like a circle of the Philippines. That's why it's all round. And that's not the case with Goyo. There's someone who said that they can get rid of them from that spot. Is this basically what you really want to say in your film? Or what happens to the real enemies, the colonizers coming in? Because that trilogy has a specific theme. So you have to examine ideas, which is one of our contributions to our defeat. So that's not saying that you absolve your oppressors, definitely. It's more of... Because usually the historical movies or that was mostly our victories against Spain. But we had to ignore our defeat versus the Americans. So they were based on... I was restricted on the theme of the trilogy. So what I'm examining is what's the contribution of the Philippines to our defeat without really saying that there's nothing wrong with it. Because you just don't get the atrocities of America. So we're... I see that. But that's the theme. It's a valid reason. My sense is that after watching Goyo, I have a better sense of what you're saying, the flaws, the contribution of the Filipinos to our defeat. It took me the second film. I realized that there could be retrospective reading of General Luna. And I wanted to go there. Some reviewers say that you glorify the kind of dictator in General Luna. And perhaps watching Goyo balances this. So was that the first one? What was the original intention or motivation for filming in General Luna? Definitely. Because once you put a video like that, it's easy to interpret that you glorify it. But the whole idea behind it was to show a historical figure that you haven't seen before in the context of Philippine cinema. So we didn't see that first. And then secondly, you'll see a historical figure that sometimes you agree with him but sometimes you also disagree. So I leave that for the audience, that space to reflect. I don't want to show it and I'll say that it's a bad person or a good person. So there's a bit of ambiguity. I want to include it in terms of your picture of our defeat. I noticed that in terms of gender, my role as a feminist comes from here. And our heroes are full of playboys. Now, is that a given thing that in your trilogy, all of these are women? It's a consequence of whose feelings it's like it's not like it's not like that. It just so happens that based on the theme of the trilogy, they are the people who can represent the people who can talk in the movie. But the problem is they are playboys. I think it's better to have a backtrack. So why are they? Can you tell us about how you came to this world and how these three people made the movie? How did you choose? How did you choose? Well, I kind of call it problematic people trilogy. So it's a bit like that. In a way, it's an informal trilogy of Aguinaldo. Because Aguinaldo is how history sees him. It's like that. I think the three people can evolve Aguinaldo's art without Aguinaldo being the protagonist of the film. So it's like that. So first, it's Luna versus Aguinaldo. And then the second film is you pick someone who is on Aguinaldo's side. And then in the third film, you can choose someone who will choose you. Aguinaldo or Manuel Quezon. So it's like that. Interesting. So you don't choose Bonifacio in your case? Yes, in that case. In the first place, they also produced Bonifacio first. As much as I'd like to, I don't want to do that. I'm sure you've heard, have you received any negative criticism? Aguinaldo, of course, occupies this specific place in our history. And in your two films, not from the official history version and what kinds of responses have you received from Aguinaldo? A lot, from Eternal Domination, too. A lot. But I gave it a try. I know that's how it goes. And I think it's more important to confront that to shy away from the subject matter. So this is me in the first you knew that Aguinaldo is going to portray will look like this or did it come in the process of research, filming from the beginning? Not even that. Even the comparison with or the idea that you glorify the dictator. In the script, before we shoot, if you look at this person, you compare that. So you're talking about producers. But we still went ahead and it's important to talk about the themes of the film. After making General Luna, you've received certain feedback. Did you continue as planned or did you have soul searching at any point? Did you make any changes in the trajectory after making General Luna? The plan was always to come up with a second film that's almost incomplete contrast with Luna. That's the plan ever since. I came into the project and General Luna completed the script. So she was there and then I read her, I said she's a controversial person. But I'll do it. On the condition that the second film is opposite to Luna. So opposite, in terms of temper, the tone is different. That's the plan ever since. But there's a certain short film that we released because it's like a bridge between Luna and Goyo. It's called Anghilito. If there's any soul searching involved there, she just went there. It's also good to talk about the difference of writing of Goyo. But at the same time, it's also like a picture of being a box office. In other words, do people have a hard time in Goyo or not? But at the same time, would you say maybe our promotion is lacking in Goyo? That's also good. I think it's more of setting aside any valid criticisms of the movie. The expectations of people. Because when I finished my project with Fernando Ortiga, I said, you'll expect that he's not the sound of Luna. People will come into the theaters thinking that it's Luna again. Once they watch it and it's not their experience, it's not the word of mouth. They'll say that it's not Luna because you're comparing them. But I'm just fortunate that they're still playing a game with the idea that you're going to make a movie against what we did before. So the idea that he's not the box office hit of Luna, it's more of, I think, because of the expectations of certain people. But there's a lot. I've talked to a lot of people who have seen Goyo seven or eight times. So there's a lot. But it's phenomenal because it's Luna. It's interesting because what I want to say is that you've worked with good filmmakers. You know the filmmakers, right? And what's your truth about them? Your ideas. That's why you have a hit. You work with Jeffrey and Cheeto, etc. But you know, you came on your own, a big hit. That's why I think he might have killed others. Well, there's a part like that but I don't like to take the credit for an indie film such a phenomenon. Because there's also a part of timing. And we're not responsible for that. So even if you do your best and you do something that's very new, there's still a big part of the luck of releasing the film. So even though we used all of that, I think we also invested in the timing of releasing the film. So that's it. I mean, following that idea of timing, there are certain reasons why this is a hit or whatever. Is there such a retrospective? That's one of the other films that I don't really like. That's what I release to others. Talking about that, you're releasing it, etc. You did Netflix. The Heraluna. Again, I want to ask you do you think this is a future way of distributing our indie films or even our other films? Well, it's kind of inevitable. That's where it really goes. And what happens is that smaller films in Sinéhan go online. And then Sinéhan is just a venue for the event movies. That's what happens. Which is sad, of course. I have no idea how to counter that. The direction that we see. That's where it really goes. Because if you remove the indie films that can connect with people, what will happen to theater going? That's probably the address that we'll address. Since the smaller films is the term used. Maybe it's also good that you started with small films. You're all very independent. And some of the small films are really precious because they're small films, like confession. I can imagine you're all very independent. And then eventually transitioning to such a huge film. Maybe compare these two filmmaking styles. Celebrated your professional. The trajectory or journey. It's also good to talk about the form of the confessional. Because I remember the camera there. I saw the filmmaker like you did in the past. That in one of the films Ambida Ay Babae. So the shake-offs. Yes, the guy, but you know. The Tiana also actually. Yes, the guy. So maybe you can comment on that. There's a big difference in the process. It's the same creative process. It's more just a matter of scale. So the people you need to talk to and your responsibility to deliver on your promise is bigger. So isn't that the form of like the concessions? Because the need is bigger. No, because at the beginning I was looking for the vision of the film. So I'll tell you right away. This has the potential or this is just a little bit here. But if you still want to do it, let's do it. So you're lucky with producers in other world. Oh, I think it's more that way. We'll gamble. Can you tell us a little bit about the confessional? I had interviews with Cebuano filmmakers and a number of them named this the rebirth of Cebuano Cinema. So how did Cebuano shoot? And did you have earlier connections prior to shooting the film with Ruel Antepuesto and the other Cebuano filmmakers? I just started because I worked in Cebu in Bigfoot. I worked there for a year and then well, I used to do short films, but I didn't want to show it to others. And so the same people who worked there in Bigfoot, they were my team when we worked. And then at that point, that was around 2004. So while it was taking time, we did short films and so on until finally I had the opportunity with Cinema One Originals that Ronald Arguellis said. I gave him the script and he said, okay, you do this. And then I went back to Cebu with my old friends but I didn't do Cebuano. But the connection of community that came from the Bigfoot group and San Carlos, I can imagine. That's right. And maybe he can comment on the direction of regional films. Is it going to boom or how do you see it? It depends on the producers because storytellers don't want to tell stories from different regions. But it depends on who will finance and distribute the film. Which is why Victor found a distributor in Patayana, Jesus. He found a distributor. So I think as long as we have producers who know how to make a calculated risk, the regional film makers have more opportunities. So it's still the capital that will go into it and the kind of promotion probably that we have to put in to have sustainability. That's but in all this you are also there for our young film makers. Maybe you can give them some to our Luzon Visays Minda now. There are so many filmmakers that want to would be. You are such a big name already in this field. My approach is always to be self-critical in a way. I will make a film and then I will learn how to be self-critical. Even though it's hard for us to learn how to be self-critical and then I will try to do that again. That's always the case. That's what I learned in music if anything because our teachers have a lot of work to do as well. That's how we will be self-critical when we are self-critical. Which is I think it's good to have a worst critic. What kind of weight can you give? It can be an award-winning film or critics or people. Of course it's a balance. If you give it you will be adjusting. You will buy a new one that might not work. The balance is more because for me the story is more important. If I like the story and I enjoy it, I will be happy. When it connects with the audience, that's the second priority that connects me. Meaning, all my theories about how to tell the story make it number two. If there are many, that's number three, the box office. That's my third priority as a box office. That's how I think. Ideally, the box office will have more opportunities to tell stories afterwards. But I just keep switching depending on the project. Is that an aesthetic philosophy? You are making films for the production. There's a senior year. There's a period, the faculty. And then you have a trilogy of cameras, filmmakers, and then historical. Is that self-conscious? I don't want to repeat myself or is that happening as projects come along? I try not to repeat myself as much as possible. Even though I have three shake-rattling roles, although I'm always a gore, I'm happy to shoot a gore. But I guess what I said earlier is that I'm changing my priority per project. For example, I made bliss which is so much non-commercial work. I don't have a box office for that project. I just want to write a story and then I just want to be valued in that story. That's my priority. But there's a saying in the mainstream that you're only as good as your last film. Right? It's hard to balance. For example, I'm starting on Darna. My priority is to connect with a lot of people. Correct. So it's different depending on the project. Before Darna. I was going to jump into it. My bliss, of course, is a censorship issue. Was it provoking this or were you surprised that you became a goon in the film? Well, in a way, it's an experiment. Because I know that there are many in the MTRCB that are a bit liberal and they will release the film. But what if our panel for that day is the conservative Tao? Triple X? That's what happened. The defense of the panel they say they're not offended by the nudity of the film, violence, etc. They're more concerned about the people who will be offended. So they're protecting the feelings of a conservative group of people. Which is in my opinion, it's not right. It's just a group. But what of the rest of the country that is not offended? Because you're treating these children as children. So I think they don't have to say that they should protect these conservative people when they should be just training films, etc. Because there are female characters. You have this female characters oppressed by the system of the Shuby system. But what I'm interested in is the portrayal of the nurse who is pathological of the nurse. How self-conscious is the decision of a lesbian nurse? Because it's a gender question as well. The system is victimized. And there's also the victim. And she's also a lesbian. Which is really that means the woman is defeated. So maybe it's hard because if she's the villain and your life then I see it more. What's your defense there? I see it as an equal opportunity offender of the movie. If you look at all the characters in the movie, not only the women, they all contribute to the defeat of the central character, the woman and the man. Which is not a gender issue, but the system surrounding that particular character. Now, as to the question of why the character is a lesbian, that was actually a real story told to me by one of my friends who has a friend who's a lesbian. She's a lesbian and she's still young, but she's also a lesbian. And she grew up thinking that she can abuse others also. So, there. You can examine all of the characters in that movie and they all have their flaws. Yeah. But that's also the point whether it's a gender-sensitive film. So, painting lesbians this way would also come up with a picture. You know, really enforced. So, maybe... I understand it comes from a true story and then on. That's the thing with representation because I'm grateful for the assembly that made films about lesbians that are on the good side. That's the thing with representation. You shouldn't just be on the good side. So, you have to have films that are on the good side of representation. You have to have films that are on the bad side of representation. So that it's more balanced. You're not giving the handicapped the marginalized. But that's okay. Or perhaps another way of looking at it is that abusers can come in of course. We are against the abusers. The other comment about the portrayal of the indigenous peoples in the film is that the indigenous tribes abused that time and they were taken as guides of the Americans and of Pinoy. And then the other tribes as long as they finished when they wanted to go it's as if they had a deal with them. And the abuse of the indigenous people you're just portraying the abuse. You're not glorifying it. You're not normalizing it. This is what happened that time. Darn it. Darn it. That's very interesting. You have a popular material and it is and of course even coming out with a woman figure Nabila. That would be interesting. Nabila. And she has high expectations. I know. Does that make you feel but of course you tell us what's happening. I try not to think about expectations too much. When I was on the side of writing I didn't really think about it. I just thought about enjoying myself in this story. And then later when I'm writing. Are you writing the whole thing or are you building on an existing formicor writer? I'm the one who wrote it and then maybe later on it depends but because I'm basing it off the drafts of what Eric and Mati did. So I think they already have nine drafts or whatever and I'll just choose what I can use. Is this your first film in the studio established? Well, Regal. But this is my first with Star. You're familiar with the system. But it's more of an experiment because even if Star knows my process it's like we're working together. I assume you'll have a little bit more freedom because these are narratives that don't really have a pattern. Well, you have a big star. You have a star. It depends. Because what happened to Regal there was a time when I started with them they were a bit quiet in the process. And then at some point they just let me go. And I was able to provide them with my best work when they let me go. So that's what I said to Star. So this is what happened to Regal that I did the best job when the producers didn't know. Which is what he's like now in Darna. I hope so. But he doesn't know about collaboration. So I'm always open to collaboration. Hopefully, the collaboration will be productive. We're looking forward to that. Let's talk about General Luna Goyo, the Quezon film trilogy. Previously, you had at least one other loose trilogy. Do you think in these terms you articulate the same idea three times or was that accidental? It happened a long time ago. It happened a long time ago. The first trilogy was the Confessionals of Tiana and Sanadati. It's more of the first thing I wrote was Sanadati. Oh, interesting. But I said I can't find funding here. So I wrote a movie, the Confessionals. And then when I noticed that I have a camera, I made a trilogy. Can you say a little bit about your insight about the camera? For me, it's a very strong image of the filmmakers there. They will confess to the camera or they will capture the participatory. What philosophy behind this? Well, for that specific trilogy, it's more of, it's in the Confessionals that there's a tagline that lies plus lies equals truth. So the lies that are in the movie, supposedly the truth will be revealed, but it's not necessarily true in many ways. So even the filmmakers in the story supposedly find the truth, what he ends up coming up with are lies also. So that's what happened in the three movies. But would you say this is a general sense about shooting a fiction or a camera, meaning the same assertion will apply to you, for example, in your own work, so this is something that matters to you. But I also noticed that there's a difference even though the camera and being a member of the Confessionals are political. It's very happy. It's very personal. We're talking about the previous love story that there's no problem. His brother is the previous partner. So in the content in a trilogy, because I can imagine our General Luna Quezon we have a constant signal. It's more structural. The similarities in terms of structure. So it's not a strict, it's like a lust trilogy. So the three genres are different. But there are certain similarities about the structure of the three films and the examination of the characters, when they give up their past to find the truths in their life. Which will apply to the way you feel as well, the history. We mentioned that there are almost the same, maybe two or three times and then you move on. Even though the films are different, or each time it's totally original, totally new. Well, of course, I try to delude myself into thinking that the original is what I do. But I think the other people who can say what's common, like Richard bullies I before that usually the contradictions in my film are not people, not time the contradictions. So there are always issues with the past, my characters. And usually the trilogy because the roots of it are triptychs. There are no religious undertones. For example, for this trilogy the one in Manuel Quezon, I came back to musical roots. It's based on sonata structure. You have a first movement that's quiet. Your second movement is slow and quiet. And your third movement is louder than the first. So it's interesting. Okay. Let's go to quick questions. It's hard. It's harder for us. Okay. Let's do this. Favorite director. Oh my God. How are you? I started loving movies around early... Scorsese Kurosawa David Fincher. Okay. Good. Dream project. All my films are dream projects. In the future. I prefer Best Actress. I don't say Best Actress. Heavy Influence. They're quick. Okay. Heavy Influence of Filmmaking. They're quick. I want to think about it. Correct. What? I was thinking of Repulsion. Are there films at the back of your head? What did you listen to? In movies? What kind of movies? Turn off. Turn off. While shooting ours. In the turn off. Shooting in the mountains. In rainy weather. Urban Boyka. You try shooting in the mountains. In rainy weather. All of us, never again. We used that a lot. It was fun. On that note. We'd like to thank director Gerald Tarog. For his time. As much as we enjoyed yours. Thank you for having me here. I had fun. We had fun. So Gerald's films are on Netflix. There are DVDs. Others are still shooting. So catch them. Let's continue to talk about Filipino films. Catch us again next time at tvup.ph as we bring in another Filipino film artist for a chat. I'm Dr. Grace Xavier Alfonso. And I'm Patrick F. Campos. Until next time, this is Sini Pinoy.