 Okay, we're back. We're live. I'm Jay Fidel with Sting Tech. It's at 12 o'clock here on a given Tuesday, and we're talking with Sandra Ohara, and she is a job person. She is a specialist in jobs. She is, may I say, a headhunter. I mean, the nicest possible way. And our mission this morning is to discuss the job market in Hawaii, in Honolulu, at this point in time in COVID. Welcome to the show, Sandra. So nice to see you. Thank you. So, you know, people think that there are no jobs out there because the unemployment rate is so high, but it is high, but that's not entirely true. Can you give us a snapshot of what the market is like? Okay, I'm going to speak more personally from the situation I'm involved in. And I just checked this morning, and I've got literally 49 jobs I'm trying to fill. These are permanent positions. They're great positions with, you know, paying quite well. But most and most of them, though, are in the construction industry. You see, the construction industry never stopped working this whole time because they're considered essential. So that's everything from rail to buildings to, you know, to my... I should explain to our viewers that the sound they're hearing is nothing we can control. But Sandra lives in a condo and there's construction going on, and that's the sound of jackhammers and they're going to be interrupting us. And that's just the way it is, ladies. We're going to have that sound. So enjoy it as long as you can hear, Sandra. That's what counts. Okay. But anyway, so that industry has not stopped. And therefore, as I say, we've got a lot of jobs that we're trying to fill. But it's not only in construction. I've got, you know, legal secretaries, executive assistants, admin, accountants, assistant controllers. So they're kind of spread out. The only thing I don't have to be honest with you is IT positions. And that kind of surprises me because that used to be my specialty, you know, telecommunications because of my IBM and whitetail background. But positions I would have thought would exist because people were working from home. But that's one area that for the month of June, there were zero. However, as I said, you know, there are positions out there and if you're good and you've got a good resume, you can always find a job. So and believe it or not, people are telling us, why should I want to go back to work? I'm getting a lot of money now with this. Why should they? Why should they want to go back to work if they're getting a lot of money now? Why should they? That's terrible. So I've heard that too, which makes me want to throw up. I mean, but that's discouraging people from going back to work because they're saying, you know, I'm making so much money now. But that's gonna end. That's ending this month. So, you know, they can't just rest on their laurels. Yeah, that's true. And, you know, now the iron is hot. You know, you have these jobs now. Unless I miss my guests going forward, you may not have so many. And so it's going to be harder, right? Possibly, not for sure, but possibly harder for them if they wait. That's right. That's right. So to me, you know, a bird in the hand is worth, you know, whatever, right? So I would just jump on it. I mean, so what if you're getting great unemployment? That's that's ending. So I wouldn't, you know, rest on my laurels. And a lot of these people don't have a lot of savings either, right? So to me. And then of course, you want your benefits. I mean, that's the one thing with all my permanent jobs, they come with benefits, you know, the medical. And in some cases, especially in construction, they offer family medical, which means they cover your entire family. I mean, that's huge, you know. So, you know, so as I said, I really feel people should not just be sitting around, you know, taking advantage of the government's soul out. Well, if you're going to catch COVID, it's probably better to have medical insurance, don't you think? Yeah. Yeah. So I don't put you that could really put you in trouble. Yeah, medically. I mean, financially. Right. So okay, so now you're a, you're an employment specialist with a deco. Yes. And so a deco is, is tooting right along. It's got jobs. You have jobs. It's kind of interesting. I'm surprised and delighted to have this conversation with you. Same here. And the interesting thing, you know, a deco is located not only in Hawaii, but all over the US and all over the world. But they're becoming somewhat paranoid. In fact, they are having us work from home. And that's why I'm not in my wonderful office. I'm in my, on my little night with all this noise. But they're having us work from home because they're very afraid. They don't want us to get sick. They also don't want our clients or our candidates getting sick. So if I send anybody out to a face-to-face interview at a client location, I have to get them to sign COVID form with, you know, have you traveled? Do you have a temperature? Have you been sick? Have you been exposed? I mean, they're paranoid. So we have to have people sign these forms. And we have to have them, you know, on file. And they've told us we can go back to the office potentially on August one, but already they've ordered all those screens, those plastic screens, special masks, and everything for us to have for ourselves. And to give to anybody that comes in that's interviewing with us that doesn't ask already on them. So yeah, so it's getting, you know, you know, when you're going back to, you know, when you're going to be going back. Yes, they've told us August one, well, August one's a weekend. So it'd be the first day. And before that, it was July one. So they keep, you know, moving it as long as garbage, you know, kind of moves it the way he was moving it. Now, right now, though, if I call you and say, I want a job and I'm qualified, blah, blah, blah, construction, what, what have you. And you want to enter, you're going to, you, how do you do your due diligence when you're not in the office and you're not really able to meet me? That's right. So that's the challenge, but we're doing it on the phone with Zoom or with, you know, go to meeting. And then of course, we're getting our clients usually are starting with the phone interview. But then as you know, in Hawaii, you know, the touchy feel, I mean, people just like that warm fuzzy feeling. So they always want to meet them in person. So they will not hire just from the phone interview. So that's why we have these special forms that they have to sign before they go out, you know, to the client's site, but the clients are definitely still meeting them before they do a final offer letter. Okay, with the other clients meeting them on Zoom also, or is it just? Well, initially on Zoom, initially, they're meeting them in the office. So we have specific instructions remind, you know, remind your candidate to wear their mask and everything, but they're meeting them in the office after the Zoom interview. So you have all these jobs, dozens and dozens of jobs that you'd like to fill. And I imagine there's a lot of people out there that who should be calling you, but aren't because they don't think there are any jobs. It's a perception thing. And that's really, that's really too bad. That's right. So I love being on your show. I would love to have everybody listen and call me. Yeah. No, I mean, seriously, we do have, we do have jobs. And I think last time I was on your show, I also mentioned to your, to your listening population that we also have salary guides. And I would love to send anybody that contacts me a salary guide if they want to know what the salary ranges are in Hawaii is a very complete a deco guy that includes Hawaii. So this is for all ranges of jobs. And so I have that available as well. Well, you know, you're doing important work, maybe more important now, you know, in the time of COVID. So why don't you give us your website or some way that people can contact you in case they're interested in following up and getting a job. Absolutely. Okay. So it's my first and last name. So it's Sandra dot Ohara at a deco and that's spelled a d e c c o n a all one word the n a stands for North America.com. We also have a major a deco website for the USA. And that is a deco USA.com. That's for people that want to like work in San Francisco, they want to go back to Chicago, if they put in that a deco USA website and then put in where they want to see what's available job wise, it'll pop up everything in that city that's available for them. So that's another and again, remember now there's never a cost for all of these applicants, you know, to to sign up with us and for us to get them jobs. So to me, I mean, it's a no brainer, right? Are there jobs on the mainland? Are there jobs on the mainland? Oh yeah, lots of jobs. Yeah, lots of jobs. And so therefore, if you want to move back to the mainland or move to the mainland and want to go certain place Las Vegas, whatever that a deco USA website is very helpful. And you just put in where you're looking for and it'll, you know, pop out all the jobs and you just apply directly with those recruiters that are searching. You know, on that point, so I know a lot of people, I mean, this is scullible, I'm leaving. I mean, that was happening before. And some of our best talents is leaving town. They either go after school, they or they go at some inflection point in their lives. And they leave Hawaii. This would be an interesting inflection. This would be a time when I had enough already this place that doesn't suit me anymore. I'm going to go out into the blue sky country or something. So are people leaving? Do you have any sense of that? To be honest, I don't have a sense of that. Although, you know, as I said, you know that the cost of living is so much less on the mainland that I mean, that makes it attractive. But in terms of the numbers, since I'm just filling jobs in Hawaii, I don't really track the numbers from Hawaii that are going in the opposite direction, you know. Okay, well, you know, we've had we've had news now for months about how all these restaurants and even now, even now, you know, in the quote reopening, which is maybe more hypothetical than real about people who worked in restaurants and bars and retail, losing their jobs, being terminated or furloughed or, you know, because they can't really work at home. And that's that's a soft area in terms of jobs. So I wonder if you have any sense of them coming back? Are they coming back? Are people rehiring or companies rehiring or are those people just out of luck? Yeah, that's an area to be honest with you, I'm just not familiar with. I've never really dealt in that whole trade, you know, the restaurants and that sort of thing. So I really don't know. But I know they're really struggling. I know they're closing because it's, you know, they just can't have people, you know, hanging out and not working. So I feel very badly for them because I know we're going to lose a lot of that business, a lot of these restaurants, right? Yeah, another thing that strikes me is that, you know, think tech is obviously still operating and we're happy about that. In fact, we were following COVID every day. But there's, you know, there are opportunities, don't you think? I really like your thoughts about this. There are opportunities. There are employees out there, maybe they lost their jobs. There are business opportunities that may be more creative now for an innovator person, an entrepreneurial group. And I wonder if you have any sense of that. People coming to you in St. Sandra, we're organizing a new business. We're bringing all our old friends together. We're going to make a new business. And we, you know, we got some investment money here. We'd like you to help us find some employees for these specialties. To be honest, that I haven't heard. The only thing is I did hear on Bert Lum's radio. I heard Pat Sullivan speaking about some of his news things. I mean, you know, that man is amazing and amazing ideas, right? So I heard him just on Bert's program. And I think that's very exciting. I mean, they're really trying to, you know, be very, very creative. So I think definitely he's, he's, you know, got the right idea, you know, but unfortunately I said no one has come to me and said, oh, performing a new group, you know, can you help a staff or do you have any staffing people? Yeah, I have not been exposed to that at all myself. So, okay. So you mentioned that on your desk, you have 40, 50, 60 jobs. What kind of jobs are they? And what kind of people would be appropriate to fill them? Okay. The majority of them are in the construction field, but these are higher level constraints. They're not the laborers. They're engineers, construction, construction superintendents, project managers, architects. I'm dying for architects. I mean, that's still a very hot field, very hard to come by because they want licensed architects. So, you know, again, it's not the easiest thing in the world. But so, you know, architects, but I also have, you know, assistant controllers, accountant positions as well. So those are in the admin side. And then admin project coordinator positions and admin positions. So they're kind of all across the board, you know, from the high end construction project managers. And so we're talking six figures for those all the way down to something, you know, in the 40,000 range. Well, you know, it strikes me that in hard times like these, there might be employers out there who would see this as an opportunity to pay below what they were paying before. So are they paying what they were paying before or more or less? No, they're paying what they're paying before. And the main reason is because, you know, if you've got somebody good and you try to, you know, undercut and pay them less than what they're worth, they're not going to be there forever, you know, because they're going to get stolen away. So I think the employers realize that you have to pay people what they're worth. Or and if you want the loyalty, as you know, in Hawaii, they really believe in loyalty and longevity and they don't like to see people skipping around a lot. So, you know, that's why they're, I think, willing to pay at least the going rate, which is, which is. Yeah, you talk about stolen away, is that happening? I'm sorry? Stealing away the other guy's staff, is that happening? Well, I mean, occasion, I just heard today from one of my candidates, oh, yeah, so-and-so, you know, moved to another company. He asked me to leave and move with them, you know, that type of thing. But, you know, so, but so if the company isn't paying what the person's worth, then it's going to be very easy to get enticed them, them, you know, to move, right? So that's the reason why I think people are not going to try and cheat these employees because they realize that you're not going to have them around forever. You have them, you know, a fair wage. Yeah, at the same time, the employee, you know, may not want to take a chance in a strange market like this and go to a situation where he really doesn't know what's going to happen to him. And as you said before, in this market, everybody wants a long-term. If you're a long-term employee, you're golden, people are going to like you better, and you're going to be, they're going to take care of you, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, especially in Hawaii. You know, Hawaii's a little different than the mainland. I mean, Hawaii is really a little provincial in the sense that they really like this loyalty. They want to think you're going to be with them for 30 years, you know. So it's that mentality. So when they see that you're skipping around every so many months or every year or two, very, very hard to place those people. You know, even if we have a great story and I, you know, usually, you know, try and do a write-up that includes why every job move was made, but still in Hawaii, they just like to see that loyalty. They like to see you're going to stay. True. And I tell you, you know, I handled the hiring in our law firm for a long time. And when I saw a resume, you know, that had a job every six months or every year or even every two years or three, and a pattern, a pattern like that, that one would not get a job. That's right. We wanted to see a pattern of long-term jobs, and we wanted to see a pattern of, you know, a reasonable reason to leave the previous job. Because otherwise, there's always a back story there, yeah. That's right. So really, yet on the mainland, you know, especially California, that's how you get ahead. Every two years, you move and so you get a better job. You get promoted and you get more money and a better job title. See, in Hawaii, it's quite different. It's that, that, you know, philosophy doesn't really hold here. So yeah. So I tell, I tell candidates, you know, you really can stick it out and establish a track record because it's really to your benefit in the long run. Yeah. So let's talk about government for a minute, you know, because I think, well, you know, we both know people who have gone from the private sector to government thinking that government is going to take care of them. Government's going to give them all these fabulous benefits. And indeed, you know, it was just a few days ago when the legislature gave a raise to HGEA, when a lot of people in HGEA are not working at all. They're at home being paid in full and they get a raise. Now that's pretty offensive to the average, you know, person on the street. But I wonder, I wonder if there's any mobility going on now in government. Let's talk about state government first. Are there jobs there? Is there movement? To be honest with you, that's not an area that I do any work in because they don't, the state doesn't use a recruiter, right? They do it on their, they try and do it on their own, they advertise and everything else. So to be honest with you, that's not an area that I've, you know, I've been exposed to. What I used to do more of is federal government, you know, on the military basis, because ADECO can sponsor people for security purposes, which is really important. So that I used to do a lot of. And that has really dried up. I mean, at one time, we couldn't keep people, you know, in our pipeline for that. But the government is not spending the kind of money they were at one time in that whole IT arena. So that's kind of dried up. But for city and state government, I honestly tell my candidates they need to apply on their own. The problem is it's very slow. It's very slow, right? So it may be months after you apply, you have to be quite patient. And so it may be months after you apply that you might get, you know, some little ping that says, Oh, are you still interested? Or, you know, the opening is here. So that's the biggest thing is that you have to be very patient with any of those state or city jobs. Well, patients may not work right now. I mean, as you said, the benefits, unemployment benefits are closing down. It's not clear. Congress just took a two week vacation. That you know, I don't I don't understand that we have a national crisis, but they, you know, envelope through a two week vacation. So the question I put to you is, what does a person do if he had a perfectly okay job before, but that job was, you know, not essential, not there anymore. And he doesn't know if he's qualified for anything else. And he doesn't have any money. And I'm asking you this question in two ways. One is, one is, what does a person do? And the other is, what if nobody can solve this problem? What are we going to see as a demographic matter in the state of Hawaii, when when a lot of people have just run out of benefits, and a lot of people can't find jobs that they are qualified for? Well, I know we're going to be faced with that. And so my my proposal, what I suggest to these candidates, especially like you said, if they need money, if they can't afford to just sit around and wait for the next big job to come along, is we have a temporary department. And we, we use people, you know, our clients also want temporary people. So for an interim, that you know, the pay is lower, unfortunately, then if it's a permanent job, but still as an interim position, or for at least to get your cash flow going, it's better than sitting around at home and watching television. So I tell them, you know, and then of course, some of these temporary jobs turn into permanent jobs, because if they really like you, they'll find a way to keep you. So that's one of my suggestions to people that, you know, just don't know what to do or beside themselves to, you know, wanting to do something. I tell them, you know, look at taking a technical position, because at least you're going to, you know, have your foot in the door and develop some new skills. So that's definitely still available. So have temporary, but it's a different department than myself. But I still have people on the temporary side that are looking for people. But the point is, it may be different than what the person has been doing before. He may be under qualified or over qualified, as the case may be. And he has to be very flexible. Very definitely, definitely. So, you know, the other thing is, you know, I wanted to ask you about retraining and all that. So if I'm under qualified, and I want to reach out to a better job, is this the time for it? And how do I get retrained? Well, you know, believe it or not, we assist with the training piece as well, because if somebody wants to do some tutorial courses, if they will register with us, I mean, and it doesn't cost them anything. We will help them with tutorials, like if you want to learn QuickBooks, or you want to learn how to, you know, that word application or something, then we will assist them in that, you know, in that way. So to me, then that's something that I would definitely look into is developing my skills, right? If you're in a dead time right now, so that you're going to be ready to go when things do open up for you. So we will do that so they can definitely get a hold of you. That's very valuable, actually. You can learn a lot, I tell you, I do, it can learn a lot by doing courses, right, on the web. Sometimes you have to pay, but it's not that much money. For example, if you want to learn software, there's so many ways to learn it. I mean, YouTube is essentially free, you can get any number of tutorials on YouTube. So there's a wealth of training out there and more is your focus. You can upgrade your skills just by sitting and watching, you know. Absolutely. And this is the time to do it, right? Is to upgrade your skills if you are not gainfully employed. I mean, better than watching soap operas on TV. Well, the other thing is that I don't want to, you know, have you talk about your competition, but I'll ask anyway. So what is the competitive model? Suppose I say to myself, look, I don't want to go to a headhunter. I just don't want to do that. What do you call it? An employment specialist, whatever the more civilized title is. I want to do this myself. Now, in the old days, you go buy the newspaper. I don't think there's a lot of ads for jobs in the newspaper anymore, if there is a newspaper. So I have to find other ways to identify the jobs. And what comes to mind is organizations like Monster, is that right, Monster? And I can go look on Monster and others, that's not the only one. And I can put in for that job. Now, how does that work? How does that differ from what you're doing? For example, I don't think that they do tutorials. I could be wrong about that. But the process has got to be different. Well, you know, the benefit to me, to people that are going through those sites, indeed LinkedIn, Monster, is that, believe it or not, employers are advertising, because you see when employers are coming to us as a recruiter, they're paying us a fee to vet people, to find them the best people, to get the resumes with references. We test our people and everything. So for all of that, they're paying a fee. But if they don't want to pay the fee, then they're going to advertise on everything, all the job boards, even hiring it with the state. So that is another vehicle. And also in this industry, there's no such thing as exclusivity. In other words, just because a candidate is working with me, doesn't mean he can't work with my competitors. We don't think they've signed something that says you can only work with, you know, Sandra, Harrah, Medeco. So they can work with, you know, a variety of competitors. The only thing is I always tell them that I ask them, you know, have you applied at this particular, you know, for this job before, because I cannot resend the resume if they've already applied themselves or somebody else has sent it. That's the only thing. But there's no, you know, exclusivity that says they can't work with our competitors or they can't apply on their own. I mean, even Craigslist, I mean, I've got, you know, clients that are advertising on Craigslist. Everybody's trying to be creative and trying to access the market. And so we can't stop anybody from doing any of that. What about the employers? When they come to you and ask you to find somebody for them, is that exclusive? No, because they can vote in multiple agencies and do the same thing. The only thing is when we are working with a particular employer, we do ask them to sign an agreement just so that, you know, should we find them the perfect candidate that starts working and that stays because we have a guarantee that they will pay us for all our work. So that's the only thing. But there is, it's not an exclusive arrangement. So they could be working with multiple agencies. You know, in a larger sense, Sandra, it seems to me, you know, I've been thinking about this for the last few weeks. And I actually want to do some shows about it. The economic question of how do you rebuild an economy that you shut down, you know, and that isn't functioning very well? How do you rebuild that economy? And, you know, there are all kinds of thoughts about that, you know, to an economist, you know, well, you got to put a little money in here, you got to change some statutes there to incentivize business in some way. You stand, you know, don't put roadblocks in the way of new business. Stop being so bureaucratic. Respond to applications and permitting process immediately instead of six months. All those things, you know. And so I think it's a combination of various things that the government can and should do in a systematic way to rebuild an economy, or at least not to let it backslide, you know, in a time where we're going up and down and back and forth and reopening and then we're pausing and then we're reopening. Yeah. So it seems to me, I really like your thought on this, it seems to me that one of the critical, most critical things is exactly what you're doing. It's no, it's being efficient, it's facilitating jobs, it's getting people employed, so they don't go on the dole, they're not in the street looking for food. Because if we don't do that, if we, you know, don't give them any path at all, they're either going to be on the street looking for food, or they're going to be on the mainland and we lose the, you know, the human resources on the mainland. My conclusion, at least for now, is that if we want to rebuild the economy and make it more robust than it has been in, you know, in the lockdown, we really have to do what you're doing. That's what I think. Yes, I totally agree. No, I mean, and as I said, I think it's a very efficient way for these employers to build up their staff, because as I said, we do all the work, we do the vetting for them, you know, we check references, we test them, you know, so, you know, so that they don't have to do it themselves and they can really do what their best at, which is, you know, the jobs that they're doing, right? So I think, you know, it's, we work for our fees and we are, you know, work very hard at it to give them the best possible person that's going to last and going to stay with them the longest, right? So that's really the biggest challenge. Yeah, the other thing, the last question I put to you here is the notion of, this is really an important issue of diversification, okay? So, you know, for years, there's been this tension, at least 20, maybe 30, Pat Sullivan was involved in this a long time ago, right? To diversify the economy, to have it more than just hotels and restaurants and accessory businesses to tourism, that we have to do other things. And, you know, that's how you and I met, we met in your efforts to find tech companies and tech employees. But where are we now in that? Do you think this could be a good time, a good idea, to try to rebuild the whole employment structure of the state? Of course, you have to rebuild the business also into a more diversified state. You'd be a perfect person to comment on that. Well, I, you know, I mean, I think it's absolutely a perfect time. But the question, of course, is, you know, what is the magic bullet or what is the secret pill that, you know, to develop? But I think this is the perfect time because, you know, to develop something new and exciting and different and innovative, right? Because of the fact that you've got people out there to fill jobs that could be really different. It's just that I wish I had the answer, I for sure wouldn't be working, I'd be sitting on the beach. But, you know, you're right. But for a person that can come up with something very innovative, well, look, some of these people that have come up with sewing masks as an example, right, to sell. I mean, you know, look at Tory Richards, I mean, they're all into selling the masks, right? They're selling masks. Well, that's definitely a little creative. I mean, they kept their people sewing and they kept their people, you know, making something. I mean, that's like to make them rich, but they definitely have to be creative. So I think that's what, look, Renz is now, I notice Renz is now selling masks, right? And everything's, if you want a designer mask, you know, out of a red shirt, right? Now we're going to get into designer masks, but right now is the perfect time. And I wish I was that person, but the perfect time for somebody that's really creative, as I say, someone like a Pat Sullivan type that could think of a fabulous new industry to open up for Hawaii, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you, Sandra. Sandra O'Hara, an employment specialist par excellence for many years. And I am so glad I know her. Thanks for coming on our show. Oh, it's my privilege to help you and to be on your show. I love it. Thank you. Be well, Sandra. Aloha. Thank you.