 Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another great meeting of the Jones Library Building Committee and the Design Subcommittee. My name's Angela Mills. I work for the town of Amherst. This meeting is being recorded and at some point soon will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel. Welcome everyone at this time. I'd like to turn things over to the chair of the JLBC Professor Austin Sarah. Thank you, Angie. So I want to call to order this meeting of the Jones Library Building Committee. I'm just going to ask you to signify your presence vocally, George. Here. Thank you. Christine. Here. Thank you, Sean. Yeah. Sharon. Here. Alex. And Austin Sarah is here. So we are called to order. Christine, would you please call to order the design subcommittee? Sure. I'm going calling to order the design subcommittee. I think all four members are here. I'll call out George. Here. Sharon. Here. Austin. Here. All four of us here. Open. Thank you very much. So first item of business for the building committee is the approval of the minutes of January 26. 2023. Is there a motion to approve those minutes? So moved. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you. Any corrections to the minutes of January. 26. Okay, voting to approve George. Approved. Thank you, Christine. Yes. Thank you, Sean. Yes. Sharon. Yes. Alex. And Austin votes. Yes. Okay, Christine. I think you have some minutes. So we also have the same January 26 minutes for the design subcommittee. So I'm looking for a motion to approve. So moved. A second. Second. Any changes, suggestions? Hearing none. We'll take a vote. Sharon. Yes. George. Yes. Austin. Yes. Myself. Yes. Four. Thank you. Thank you, Christine. The town manager is not able to be present. So. No town manager report. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next item is a financial update. Sean. So Craig's going to go through a quick budget review in a minute. I'll just give a really brief update on contracts. Obviously stuff for us with us today. We're finalizing that contract probably the next day or two, but Paul's given the oral green light on that. So it makes sense for them to be here tonight. We are still evaluating commissioning proposals that we received. So we're going to go through a couple of things that we're going to review. And then we're going to go through some of the variations of commissioning services that we could bring on. There's some required pieces and there's some pieces that aren't required. And then looking at how it all fits within our budget. So. That will be probably coming up in the next week or so. And then we do have a proposal as well. Well, from colliers that we're going to meet with colliers tomorrow. Again, because the project has stretched out longer than it was originally anticipated. So we're going to start that conversation tomorrow. And I'm sure we'll have more information. For the committee. And coming weeks. And then correct. Do you want to do the budget update? Absolutely. May I share my screen. You may correct. Thank you. I'm not having a luck sharing. Are you able to. Sorry. I just made you a co-host. Does that give you an opportunity to share your screen? It does. Thank you. Excellent. No problem. Thanks Angie. Okay. So here is our latest financial status report update. Let me zoom in a little bit here. Sorry. I'm fighting with my screen size here. I might not be able to zoom in. Okay. So just a reminder. A refresher. Column a. Is the budget line item. B and C are for transfers, which we haven't done any transfers yet. D1 D2 D3 are for what has been invoiced and paid. What's been invoiced, not paid in total contracts that are. Have been executed. And then we've got column E, which is planned, but not contracted. So we've got a refresher. Column a. Is the budget line item. B and C are for transfers, which is planned, but not contracted. So we've got a series of numbers in here that I'll quickly go over. New numbers. And then column F wraps that all up to the total. And then column G is the difference between. Total budget. And what we're seeing actually. So we've got three pages. So the first page is all things. That we don't have yet the actual construction. But costs. Page two, we get into some of our fees. And this is where we have some information. So you'll see. V a to the design team. If we go all the way over to column G, we see that we've got, is this large enough? Can you guys see the numbers? Yeah. Okay. So we have $55,000 over budget, quote unquote over budget. And that's just because we started with their base contract. And you'll recall. We, they have a $55,000 additional service that was approved. So at some point, what we'll do to clean up all of these numbers is we'll transfer money either from line items that have a surplus. Or more likely from our owner's contingency. But we won't do that for every little $1,000 here, $2,000 there, $55,000. We'll wait till we've got sort of a clear path. And then we'll start adjusting those money. If, if that's, that would be my recommendation. Just so it's more efficient instead of doing every, every little item. But we can talk about that. Below them, the interior furniture designer. So the interior furniture designer. So Staphora's proposal and pending contract. It was for 102,000. The budget was 100,000. That's why we've got this $2,300. Overage same thing. We'll take care of that later. From another item or. Owners contingency moving down the page. What Sean was talking about that commissioning. That commissioning. The commissioning was budgeted $80,000 for all of the commissioning activities. Just as a placeholder, I put in the, the code required minimum. Which is. MEP during construction. That commissioning. And that was like $86,000. And then I added in. For discussion purposes. The commissioning. And my office, both strong, highly recommend, but again, up for discussion. And that is the MEP. Commissioning agents involvement during the design phase where they can actually have a measurable impact to the, say the quality or the completeness of that. Package. So if we go for those two, then that does put us $36,000. Over budget on that line item. But again, this is just kind of a placeholder. We have. An extra five and a half thousand dollars in that. Bucket. Where we believe their. Their contract is already. Executed. And so. Maybe there's an additional cost estimating service. Down the road or outside of the scope of their. But their contract that we want, or maybe this is some money that. They take care of that overridden. Furnishing interior design. Going on to page three. The only thing that we've changed here. Oh, and actually backing up to this one. So Sean did mention. OPMs. I think Craig froze. Site survey. Sorry, back on page two. You froze a little bit before when you mentioned the owners, the OPM. Yeah, perfect timing. Yeah. Can you hear me clearly now? Yes. Okay. So I was saying that I have not reflected that. OPM services proposal letter in this yet. I wanted to speak with Paul and Sean first before putting that in there. So that should show up whatever it ends up being. We'll show up in next month's update. Site survey again. This is planned, but not contracted. We have $10,000. There has been some additional survey work. Requested actually turns out it was the DPW recommended it. Of Berkshire, which is. Fingal Alexander's consultant. For this dark blue area. So DPW said, Hey, we don't have, as I understand it, they said we don't have. Accurate information or totally up to date information. We recommend if you're tying into stuff. You can do your own survey. And so we have a waiting for that proposal. And so as I mentioned, there's a $10,000 sort of in that. Bucket. Sorry, I lost my spot. Moving on to page three. The only thing I've changed here is. You may recall from early on when we first started looking at these reports, the whole concept of additional need. For the owner to dispense and one that we want to keep for construction issues, unforeseen construction issues. So that you don't, so it doesn't look like we've got $3 million extra to hang it around. As an accounting technique, we have this additional need where we just basically zero things out. So that's the only thing I've changed on this page since the last time we looked at it was just so that. This number here remains at zero. Are there any questions about the financial status report? Before entertaining others, could you just the last, I want to make sure I understand the last item, the total contingency was 3.3. It's now, I see now 3.2. So there's some savings anticipated. No, so, so this additional need kind of works as the. Opposite side of the coin for contingency. So the contingency is money you've got in your pocket and this additional need is saying, yeah, but we're going to spend that. So it doesn't show up as an overage. Again, it's just an accounting technique. If you prefer. Yeah. No, no, the question I'm asking if you go to the bottom there, which says total contingency. Total contingency right here. Okay. Okay. Keep going over to the right. Yep. And it shows 87.8. So that. That 87.8 is all these little overages here. I see. Okay. Thank you very much. 87.8. You got it. Yep. Thanks. Very helpful. Okay. Questions about the budget. Okay. Thank you. Craig Alex. Yeah, thanks. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thanks for the time that we need to talk about. That additional MEP. If we're going to do that. At what point do we need to. Have that conversation. Craig. Sean, are you in favor of us? We can pull that up and talk about it now. It wasn't on the agenda tonight. Okay. We'll wait till next week because we're meeting with Collier's tomorrow. And I'm sure we can talk about that and then be ready to discuss it next week. Thanks. Okay. If nothing else on the budget. Sean. I mean, Sean Craig. Yes. Thank you, Austin. All right. So I'll share my screen again. Right. I believe it's the schedule that I'm showing now. Here we are. Okay. So only change from last week is nudging over our vertical red line indicating where we are. And we can see that we've been through one full month of design development, which is a four month process. Nothing else. Having these meetings every week is handy. Because there aren't any big changes in between. Does anyone have any questions about the. Schedule. Alex. Thanks. Great. It looks like the secure space for the temporary. Is in February, March and April. Yes. So Sharon and I have a call. Scheduled for tomorrow. In order to. Open that up again. We haven't spoken in a number of months about that temporary space, what it looks like. And then we'll talk about, you know, how much money there is, what's available in town. So we'll rekindle that discussion tomorrow. But yes, we're entering. These are kind of placeholders. Secure the space when I say secure the space. I mean, it's kind of get it lined up and under contract. The next step would be if any modifications need to be made. We've got, I think it's five months to sort of figure that out. And then we'll be able to execute those changes. As needed, and then move in would be in December. So basically we have a, about a year. Just under a year to kind of get that squared away. So this is not a deadline by any means. This is more of a reminder that, okay, we've got to, we should be moving into that stage now. And that whole, that conversation about the offsite. Space will be brought to and reviewed by the board of trustees of the, of the library as well. Okay. Anything else about the schedule? Okay, Craig. So tonight we have with us the design team as well as. The design team and we have with us the design team as well. That's the design team of, of the SIFORA. And so what we propose is going through the interior similar to last week with landscape, go through the interiors first. That way, after all that discussion is done, we can. Excuse to for us so they can get on with their evening. Then we can talk about the. The design team wants to show a new young adult program location Um, and then for everyone, Craig, sorry to interrupt you at each stage of this, it would be very helpful if you would remind the committee. Of what it is that you are asking for each of these things from the committee. Absolutely. Um, so the one. Decision that is necessary for tonight is the direction. Okay, good. Okay, sorry. Is the design team needs direction on the young adult program location. So that'll be the second thing we discuss. The first thing is going to be the interiors. And that is a, they're going to show it tonight. If you feel compelled to decide on it tonight, great. But if not, um, that is a decision we can make it next week's meeting. And then the restroom decision, same thing. If you feel compelled to make a decision on it tonight, great. But if not, um, we can go to next week without causing trouble. Okay, so the interior design conversation is a, let's call it a preliminary conversation. What, what you need from us. Tonight is to ask whatever questions we have to get whatever clarification or whatever new information we have. If we're able to make a decision, we'll make a decision, but otherwise. Next time. Right. Okay. And then one last one final thing is, um, There's been expressed an interest in, um, professional interior renderings for a variety of uses. Um, For the purposes of the project. Um, Each of them will be, um, In, in excess of the design team's base contract. So we had, so we'd want to be. Judicious about where. Or how many are selected. But, um, again, that's more for, you know, it doesn't need to be decided tonight, but between tonight and next week deciding where you might want views and how many you want. Um, so that would be something else to decide. And so maybe we talk about that at the very end. Okay. Thank you, Kirk. So now I would turn things over to the design team. Thanks, Kirk. Hi, everybody. Hey, Ellen, how are you? I'm good. How are you guys? Nice to see you. Yes. Happy to be here. Just fine. I'll let you kick it off. Just rings the. Woman with a plan. Craig outlined the plan pretty well, but thank you everyone. Um, so, um, we're introducing you tonight to our, um, interiors groups to fear associates. Um, we have Leanne and Amanda with us. And they're going to be sharing their screen and running through this interior presentation. Um, so I handed off to Leanne and Amanda. Okay. Thank you very much. Happy to join you. You know, it's been a. Um, process. I'm really happy that we're here and able to work with all of you. Um, Hopefully make your library come to reality. Um, So, um, As Josephine said, we are a group of interior designers. We've worked at a relationship with, um, Alexander for gosh, 25, 30 years. So we're very used to working together. Um, And this group was worked together as well and past projects. Um, so we'll be joining the team. Um, To help with the interior architectural finishes design and selection. Um, As well as the furniture, which we'll get to at a later date. But tonight our focus is on, um, Presenting some preliminary, uh, Palettes and ideas for, uh, What we see collectively as, um, Good work in your library. So. I could share my screen. And we've met with Amanda and Leanne a couple of times already. We've met with Amanda and Leanne. And we've met with Amanda and Leanne a couple of times already. Uh, they have worked on most of the libraries we've worked on. So we feel as though they're the right fit for us. Yes. Um, so introductions. I said on the end of the lucky. I'll be the principal and end of Bailey is the interior designer of the project. Um, So as far as just, just to kind of just quickly go through the Over. Process overview. Um, we're not seeing your screen. Unless I'm not. Can everybody see the screen? Nope. Hold on. What's that? Sorry. I think it's loading. Okay. Here we go. Okay, great. Um, so introductions here we are. So process overview. This is the first of three design meetings. Uh, that will happen during the, um, design development and construction document phase. Um, so for this first meeting we're talking about concepts, kind of big picture how we see materiality in the building. Um, The next meeting we will propose, you know, Presenting actual materials. Hopefully that will be something we can do in person. Can help. Um, and just a reminder for this process, because it is a public project, we will be ultimately looking to, you know, Uh, Select three materials for each type, um, To be able to put in our documentation. So we'll get into all that with you. And then, you know, work towards our last meeting. Um, to get together to kind of fun to finalize the selections that we would then put forth the documentation. So, um, this is the beginning. Um, so out of this meeting, we would like to get, um, as much as we can, some direction from the committee on, you know, preferences, Um, so. I'm away with that. We'll have something to work with to get us to our next design meeting. So this first series of slides, um, Is an overview with our proposed. Ideas for what type of material could be in each of the spaces. So it's been color coded as a key here down on the left. Um, so as you, this is on the lower level. Um, The ideas for this main, um, Building entry circulation into the public special collections area to be a porcelain tile. Moving into the meeting room and some of these, um, adjacent spaces that would be carpeted carpet tile, most likely. Um, There is quite a bit of area on this level that's designated for the special collections, whether it's the storage or working areas. Um, Um, That's, um, you know, low VOC, you know, appropriate for just storing materials like that. So it's a composite or textile composite floor and kinetics is one brand name. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that at all. Um, And then, uh, what's in green are areas that, uh, would propose it to be wood. So, um, you know, we're using this timber framing in the building. So we thought a nice idea would be to, you know, perhaps make construct the stair out of wood. We'll get to more images of that later on. And then what's in gray is either, you know, concrete backup house spaces or perhaps rubber for the interior stairs. Um, and then some of the support spaces, break room, um, a linoleum flooring. So it's kind of a more resilient type flooring. And you know, there's some, there's some variations within all of these that we can explore. And Lee, and I just want to just say that the selection of the materials is based on essentially the use of the room. Right. And then, um, it is also based on the use of the materials. Um, in. Oh, for instance, the carpet helps us with acoustics in a room. And the durability would go in the high traffic areas. That kind of. Yeah. And also, you know, ease of maintenance force on tiles. Yes. It's like one of the easiest materials to maintain. And this, and this is where your most traffic will occur in these areas. So going up a level. Um, and looking how the materials would map out on this floor. I mean, circulation you're coming in the existing building as your entrance. A lot of this we understand is, you know, going to stay and be cleaned up. However, we are proposing that this first main entry be be in porcelain tile and that would just carry right through to your cafe area and display and the new books area back in here. All most of the other areas on this level would be carpet tile, you know, different for either the children's area, stack areas, and even, you know, this historic room. All those we see is carpeted areas. Typically under the main circulation that's we do some type of resilient flooring, whether it's a sports floor or something that has some pressure to it, just to help with the the use of that space and I probably went only in the new book sorting area. So it's shown here is what is this is your main stair, really just a refinished of the existing crafter would be a linoleum product. And then we move up the level where we're getting a little bit more generally this whole upper level is most of stacks study spaces. And then as you transition to the historic building, what we're proposing is keeping your wood floor and refinishing cleaning up, you know, perhaps as we go through this area rugs or other things to soften it, and then getting up to the upper level. Again, would floor areas bathrooms would be surround tile porcelain tile. So before you go any further, I just want to ask for questions about these are what we've seen about flooring. Sharon. Yeah, thank you so much. So I do have a couple of a couple of questions. Starting on the second floor, or going back down to the second floor. So you mentioned, you left in wood, the adult reading rooms in the front, can you go to the second floor. Oh yeah, sorry, yes. Yeah, which I love that's great. But there's more. There's more original 1928 hardwood there, both to the left and to the right of that green space. And I didn't know if if that should also be wood with area rugs or are you suggesting carpet for noise factor. Perhaps these are office spaces correct. Yeah, so I will probably in an office space you may want to carpet that acoustic wise and you know you probably have a task chair rolling around on it right. A little more difficult to do an area type area right type situation in there. I can explore but I would think is an office space goes it might be. It may be better to make those spaces carpet. Okay, really doesn't have to be the same carpet it could be something that's you know a little more appropriate to the, you know the architecture in that space. Sure, go down to the first floor. So, where should I, where should I start. So I love that you put the rubber flooring underneath the adult circulation desk. Does it also make sense to put the rubber flooring underneath the kids circulation. Yes, probably yeah. Awesome. Can I ask. So I have the same question that we, we just discussed about the second floor. There's more 1928. Yeah, I would. So like the, the southern part of the children's room, or to the exactly yeah, yeah, could. So I spoke with the children's room folks and they would love all heartwood it's just easier to clean, you know we've got carpet right now and it gets gross pretty quickly. So that was something that they suggested but I understand the noise factor. I could, let me stop there, I will just address the children's room what do you all think about about leaving that for part wood. George is going to talk. Well we transition right here correct. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Lee and what do you mean transition. Well the whole to the new right well where does it stop. Yes, correct, correct. I was just thinking about the answer to Sharon's question. Does the choice of wood versus carpet. What are the budget implications. Greg. No, I think the carpet is more cost effective. The refinishing the ones who are right one of the things and Sharon, you probably know this best than anybody because you're in the thick of this with us. Some of these rooms were taking existing walls out. Okay. And sometimes they build the walls and then put the floor and so then you have these weird gaps. We can look at it because sometimes they build the walls on top of the floor so but we can look at that for sure. Right. And my, my last question I think has to do with so the barrel vaulted ceiling room. I'm assuming it's wood underneath, I could be wrong and so because of the double height. Again, I suppose it makes sense to have a carpet but if it could be would I think it would be a really beautiful space. Those are all my comments thank you. Okay, thank you. No, that's great. Okay, George. Yeah, we can look at that as well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It could be what my guess it is would online a second. I'm sorry George, George will tell us. Okay, George. Yeah, because I can I know the answer to this. The, the room with the vaulted ceiling that used to be the fiction room back when that was an auditorium that had fixed seating so if there is a floor under that carpet. The floor is probably not salvageable because they had bolted auditorium chairs in it. As far as the children's space goes, there likely is hardwood under it still, but having recarpeted the entrance way in the community room which also had hardwood floors under it. We know that the floors were in very very poor condition and partially modified during the 90s renovation so it's clear that if there is hardwood under the carpeting in the children's rooms if it would be even salvage. Okay. And George, do you have any other comments about these these flooring materials for example the wood places where the tile is shown. I don't my only my only thought and this would also be a question for the children's department is if they would prefer some of their area to have an alternative to carpet like either cork or rubberized flooring just for easy cleanup. I don't have that crafts room that's going to be linoleum but they're likely going to be purposing a portion of the children's room for other activities so they may want some kind of a hard surface in there somewhere but again, that would be checking with the children's department. Thank you George Christian. Yeah, thanks. First off, I just have to say I love hardwood hardwood floors are gorgeous. They offer like a logistics look of warmth and all that so wherever we can put them in great but they're old and good points about walls moving and and previous screws and holes, but looking at the bedroom just thinking back to my own kids and being in there with kids. Kids love to just plop down on the floor, and you know look at that bottom row of books that's what I remember and, and the truth is rug is a little warmer and more comfortable to kneel on or just hang out on. There's just a thought for function. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks Christine. Okay, thoughts about the flooring Alex. And on the team, the young adult space. Young adult space has an activity space like the children's does, but that's not shown in linoleum it looks like it's carpeted. I see the team folks are in our audience so I don't know if I'm asking a question whether they really want it that way but I just don't know whether or not there was desire by the team group to have their their own space something that's more easily cleanable than carpet. So other comments about the, about the flooring. So what what my thought is that we're going to go through this thing with the, the interior finishes and then we'll take some public comment on the whole thing rather than to kind of do it segment by segment. Do I see another hand. It was just me I wanted to say so these plans that stifura has presented is not showing the new location of YA. But when it does move, I would think, at the very least, the, the cooperative room would be when only in X. And may I just ask Sharon Linoleum as opposed to tile. So that's where my, it's above my pay grade, I just, I mean, something hard versus a carpet. Thank you. Yeah, easy to clean. Okay. I think we are, we are ready for the next bit. Okay, thank you. Okay so these next two slides are here to kind of show the thinking of how we see the interiors of this space. And, you know, taking our cues, what we thought was important. There's a lot of rich history in the Amherst area actually went to school out there my daughter school up there so familiar with like the farmlands and the lakes and the mountains of the trees. And the fact that you are have chosen this timber framing for your interiors, really, you know, kind of led us to this feeling of nature and how do we bring that into your space. And the materials that we choose and the patterns and color. So for these next two slides we're kind of building on that feeling of nature and environment. This first is, you know, you know, the porcelain tile that we could bring in could have like a nice feel of like slate and stone we're definitely you know working with wood in the space. You know, carpet patterns, you know, maybe in the general collections children might end up being a little more fun than this but could have kind of this textural organic feel to the feel to it. And the opportunity to bring in, you know, this neutral palette but also bring in some of these cooler tones, you know that kind of remind us of the lakes and the rivers and what's happening in the mountains. So that's one direction. And you know, another approach would be to kind of still use that backdrop maybe we, you know, maybe be lighten the porcelain tile a little bit more variegated with a little warmer tones in it. Pull from work is a tunnel feeling images of your landscape where we could bring in some warmer accents, still have this backdrop of neutral tones with the greens and warm colors. And maybe a little bit lighter, again, some organic patterns, but there's, you know, there's ways to go and maybe this parts of the library that a lot of the other but, you know, it seems like a nice way to kind of bring in the area into your library and have a knot to the community. So the next series of slides are really precedent images for different areas within it. So, you know, we know we have this, you know, important historic part to your building that we are certainly maintaining and cleaning up. You know, lots of use of wood and moldings. Looking to this, you know, stone on the on the exterior and how do we maybe bring that into the building a little bit which again is, you know, connecting to the nature and stone area. And then looking at how this building we're going to be linking the old and the new, these two images are of Holyoke Library which may have seen or not we actually did work on this project with Michael Alexander. But this is a really successful way of, you know, linking the old historic part of the building to the to the new construction and kind of see there in the distance. There's also evidence here in one of the reading rooms where you can kind of see through to the historic part, yet have, you know, a little bit more of the contemporary new exterior space. So we're going to be looking at ways to, you know, think about how our materials and connect both of these spaces architecturally. And this next slide is kind of focusing on some concepts for how this main circulation stair in the main part of your building could unfold this week. We think it would be really interesting and nice to kind of like your structure with the stair material and we could introduce some wood here. Different ways we can do that. You know, kind of with solid block wrapping a stair, provided some, you know, accent here you see like an accent on the stringer. This is representative of kind of the material you see in that main circulation path that kind of brings you through the building and then how we maybe connect to the spaces that are off at, you know, one clear example is the circulation of the Special Collections rooms. And also, you know, this, this is kind of mentioning this is the new building over at Amherst College where, you know, they used a lot of natural wood with the stark contrast with the darker floor. It also be really interesting. So I think, you know, one of the things we're looking at is what's the right field and what that darker contrast to the main floor or maybe, you know, something that's a little bit lighter. General stacks areas. You know, we have this nice wood cladding hopefully on our exterior. Excuse me. And then kind of coming into the stacks area. You know, maybe we'll get to use a little bit of wood on the end panels but another nice way is to, you know, light it up maybe maybe there's a contrast to all that warmth with kind of a lighter palette on our stacks. And then introducing this certainly when we get into furniture will be lots of opportunity to bring in some color with that, and maybe a little bit of accent, you know, on them on the wall surface. Special Collections. Two different types of spaces that happen here. You will have these two spaces that are directly off your main circulation area and, you know, I think it's going to be like an interesting study on how we link those two spaces together to draw people in. Is it, you know, creating either, you know, gallery type spaces along with display. In the image it was kind of providing a place maybe for people to be in there a little bit longer instead of it's a little less museum but a little bit more attractive. Talk about that. In the back, you know, you'll have some area where you're going to need kind of high stacks but we didn't think in the upfront areas it'd be nice to bring in the porcelain tile. This is an image of that textile compositor is just one of the patterns so interesting material very durable. And then the children's room, you know, place, we certainly think we can have a lot of fun, bringing in lots of bright colors, you know, when only flooring could have a lot of pattern to it could be rubber as well. There are you do have some wall expanses where we could look to do some, you know, great graphics. Another idea was that, you know, there's a lot of history of children's book authors. You know, of course Emily Dickinson and ways that we can maybe bring some of that imagery into the children's library to have organic stacks. So this is just some big picture of thinking to kind of get you thinking about what the look and feel of the space could be. I think that we think could be a really like fun, colorful space. It's got a lot of great light with all the new windows. They can really take it we think, you know, good punch color in here. Okay. So questions. Thank you. Thanks so much. So Sharon, George. Yeah, so thank you so much for this presentation. It was beautiful. I had a blast. You know, looking at all of all of these pictures are so great. And all the colors you choose are really quite lovely. My only request is the library director is not to have the dark flooring so like your, your palette concepts with the cool accents. Beautiful, but I feel like the porcelain tile in the carpet choices there those colors are just so dark. I'm just afraid they're going to show everything. Yeah, as beautiful as it is I mean that's really gorgeous but it's going to show every spec. The other thing going to the staircase slide. I have heard that people get nervous around the stairs that don't have the risers. So I wanted to point that out I think we should have risers. And one other thing that I wanted to say had to do with all of the colors in the teen and the kids room. I think the teens will have their own things to say and I say whatever they want, I want, but I did get a chance to talk with our children's room staff and they fell in love immediately with the picture in the lower left corner. And they were actually hoping for more cooler tones. And then they would liven up the place with with the books and the children's art that kind of thing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Sharon. George and then Christine George. Yeah I'm going to literally echo everything Sharon just said about being more for the cooler colors. One of the biggest issues we have the current building is the downstairs feels like a dungeon and the more lighter and airy we can make the spaces appear the better off will be. And finally I just want to keep reminding everyone that we have a very large collection of historic artwork that much of it needs to be on public display. So we just need to remain mindful that while we're choosing colors and decorating spaces that the wall space is going to be shared with a considerable amount of artwork that will need to be placed out in public view. Okay. Thank you George Christine. I have a couple of questions and a couple of comments. First, if you all could move to the one that showed the Holy Oak library. Yeah, kind of that blend of old and new was a beautiful photo yeah there. I just happened to notice they have a very large area rug there. And is that a possibility on hardwood floors because it does kind of give that sort of old era look. Is that an attached rug like how did those that kind of concept work. It is a possibility that is that is just a big area rug it's not. It's not actually attached I mean they need to put some tape under it just but, but it can work. Yeah, that's in a very public space. Actually, yeah, I mean, you said you did that library you worked out so you really are familiar. Okay, that's great. I agree with Sharon with the floating stairs they look really cool but it looks just a little scary and I wonder if things do drop at all you know or get swept in fall anyways. Stacks. I think I prefer the wood stacks. Again, more than the white ones you showed that reminded me of kind of like a key out. I understand in work areas like in special collections or something like that you would go with whatever is less expensive and functional and easy. Yeah, I mean it will come to that may end up being you know you can also look at a combination of it once you know once you start to do that's true. That's a good point where there's some white used you know opposite, you know some wood so we can thank you. My last question is on the children's room you showed that really cool I don't know. I think that is just a really great look to liven up or brighten up an area. Yeah, there it is. Is how is that brutally more expensive than carpet squares because I know carpet squares are really very frugal and and functional. I think when only and when only versus carpet tile he means that you're asking. Yeah, yeah, I think when only would be less expensive. Even the colored with the cut. Oh yeah the color doesn't actually with these patterns the cost would come more into the intricacy of the pattern installation but material wise. I really wish you could less than carpet. Yes. Yeah, thank you. One thing I'm sorry Christian. Yeah, no, I just wanted to thank them it's everything it all looks wonderful. Thank you. So Christian just to make clear to the folks about the book stacks right in Craig I'm sure is thinking money when we're talking about this so the book stacks are the standard metal book stacks so one of the places that we can add some color or in material is to the end panels. Right, right, so that's, we are on a budget I'm sure we have an allowance for that so as as Leanne said we would be strategic and where we put those. We would get the biggest bang for our buck but just overall it will be the metal bookshelves. Great. Thanks so much. First I just want to say that I really appreciate the focus on designs that are natural and the palates that you're looking at. And I guess just two comments and one question. So, I know some things that I've heard is especially in children's room and teens room. You know while we want to have things that are fun for kids we also want things that are going to stand the test of time and sometimes things get a little too fun and then wind up, you know, feeling dated at some point. The picture that's at the top in the middle sort of reminds me I don't know what decisions we've made around wayfinding. And in terms of the design you know whether we're going to rely solely on signage or whether we're going to be using different or color patterns. So we have a lot of non English language native speakers that come to our library we also have people who obviously come to our library for literacy because we'll have a literacy project there. So I just want to be cognizant as we design things if we want to be thinking about wayfinding in creative ways, not just, you know, signage. And then my last comment is, I don't know we have an incredible art program around here in terms of the high school the college. There are some really beautiful murals that have been done and I don't know the extent to which you want to take advantage of the community in terms of having certain. We have a ton of children's book illustrators authors here in town as well as again the high school so if that's something we want to consider what's the timing and how do we incorporate that in if that's a possibility. Thanks. Thank you Alex. I wanted to ask a question again thank you so much for this it's really exciting. It's really exciting moment to see all this. So my question and this is as much for Sharon and George, my question has to do with the compatibility of color palettes with the historic nature of parts of the building. So, I mean we can make the children's room. Like look like it's the greatest modern children's room in the history of children's rooms. But that's a historic part of the library. And I just wonder what we all ought to be thinking about the kind of function of the room and what the room is going to do. How does that play out in terms of also making it work with the location of the library. Now, when I'm about to say may contradict what I just said. But as much as I love the Holyoke library, and I don't have the clearest recollection of it having visited once. I had the sense of a kind of radical separation between the old building and the new part of the building. And there were a couple of features that tied them together like the outside of one of the historic, you know, the inside one historic walls. And again I just wondering in terms of your thinking about the colors and the palettes, whether you are want to be attentive to making sure that there's some real continuity between the historic part of the building. And the new part of the building in terms of people's experience. I mean, I think, you know, they are going to have a clearly, you know, a stark difference to them, because you have this historic part they were, you know, keeping a lot of it intact. The doors and all of that, the wood materials. I think it's significant that you're keeping that as your main entrance to the library. Wow, right. I think that certainly shows that you want people to still, you know, feel all of that as they as they walk through and then you know you mentioned you're going to have these artworks throughout the building. But I also think like the use of, you know, the framing of the interior is all going to be, you know, it's a little bit more contemporary in a way. I guess, you know, the lighter with tones and the structure of the space is different. So, I can maybe help. Yeah. So, Austin, and we don't have this graphic to show you but we can bring it next time and Sharon and Craig are familiar with it. So, and this is part of our study for the historic tax credits exercise we're doing is in the in the rooms that are historic. It's a historic right the original building. We are keeping all the existing window trim, all the, you know, baseball trim, the chair rolls we're keeping all that existing fabric. So you're going to have that but so to your question is, are you asking is how then do we treat the new stuff going in the carpet and maybe the furniture in there. So, yeah, what I'm what I was. I'm trying to imagine this bright modern, you know, many colors, kind of very exciting children's room with the surround of the historic building. So that's kind of what I'm trying to think about and whether when you use interior finishes and designs, whether you're just I know I'm going to use the word just but I don't mean just whether you're just kind of thinking of the function of the room. This is a children's room and ought to be done in neon and ought to be, you know, whatever. Versus you're thinking about the function of the room and its location in relationship to the historic part of the building. So that's what I was just trying to think out loud about for myself. George. I will say that as far as the children's room goes. The historic part that has all of that incredible work work and the archways and everything right now is being reserved mostly for stacks. So I wouldn't envision that the brightly colored floor patterns and all that would be happening in that space but at least that's what it seems to me I mean once you go beyond the stacks area, you're getting into new construction and I think that that portion of the children's room with the fireplace and the, in the arched ways. I think it'll be less affected by, by the, the bold designs of the rest of the children's room. Sharon. Austin, I just want to ask, are you, are you asking, do you prefer that the entire library in essence be kind of classic. So I wasn't expressing a preference about this. I was just asking, as the architects and the interior designers, think about the building. How do they blend or think about this is children's room you want to make it bright and fun. But it's a children's room, part of which is located in this historic part of the building and has historic detail which I hope we're going to keep. And that's what I was just trying to put on the table and get some conversation about it. And then my other question on, again, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's a kind of matter of taste. I mean, I understand that the new part of the building is a new part of the building. And from an architectural point of view, you may want to have a kind of pretty clear, you know you're in the new part of the building you're in the new part of the building. But I just noticed when I was in Holy Oak, this my own sense was a kind of it was very stark. You know you went from parts of the building where there is wood and soft. Now let's tell the parts of the building where there was just no, no kind of hint of it and I'm not talking about the wood now I'm talking about the colors and the carpeting and the like. It was, that was the design idea. You, you, you, you pass, you get, you, we did a good job. Thank you. That's what we're trying to do. I find my way in the first second here, Austin, I think your really key question, which is at the heart of what we as designers do. Because with architects and as interior designers, we're always trying to balance the issue, especially when you have a historic building like you do. Yeah, with contemporary and in many cases, even the store commissions actually want to recognize that there's a distinction between them. They do not want to try to relate because they say you need to make it very obvious that this part is new. This part is all that the real trick here in lies in how successful do we do that and you're absolutely right it's up subject to taste. A lot of things I think Leanne is hitting on is the threading of materials, the palette, and this idea of if people are for example leaning towards the cool, you know, for lack of better word. That's the thread that ties a lot of this together so it feels like it's all of a piece but it's more complimentary versus mimicry so it's a very, it's a very fine line, and we're all constantly threading this all the time and, and we really appreciate that question because it is right in the heart of everything we do. Well, I'll keep asking it. Okay. All right. So I think, I think I see Alex, Alex. Thanks. I have one more question this may not be the right time with these pictures in front of me are reminding me so. We got a lot of feedback from the community, and I don't know how the children's librarians feel about it so you'll let them weigh in but we got a lot of feedback from the community, these sort of nook areas that are in these pictures on the right hand side was definitely a big hit. And in terms of having nook spaces like those in the children's area so I don't know if that's possible doable, or if the librarians even want it but I just want to remind people that the community was very much in paper. Thank you so much. Okay, any other. Any other questions suggestions and Ellen and Leanne I want to make sure that you're getting from us what you want from us. So if you want something else from us. What, what is it that you would want or have you gotten what you need so far. Well, I'll tell you what we heard I think correct my wrong, I think you know because we're going to go away now and develop some real talents to present to you. So it sounds as if the preferences for, you know, lighter values on the floor. Not so dark. I didn't know if this was in the range we do think it's you know this particular one kind of felt a little bit like it took its nods from the exterior a little bit. Yeah, so I'm getting too light or do you really see this as you know really like or like you see here. It is a big space so I think we need a little bit of depth to keep it grounded but I mean we can present options to you as well when we come back but that's kind of what we heard and then before you go. So I want to be for you move. I just want to make sure that we're all now comfortable with this direction. Okay. Christine. Sorry, Christine. So I just want to confirm we're going with the warm, not the cool. I'm, I'm just, no, I was looking more into this time but we did hear that the cooler accents are preferred. The cooler, but lighter on the floors, maybe is. Yeah, maybe. Okay. Thanks. Thank you, Christian. And then this will work on the stair. And I think I don't know if you had this might be a little premature I know we have to have a little bit of discussions about what actually happens in some of the special collection spaces. I don't know if you have any initial thoughts on, you know, how you envision these spaces and if you know having tile floors appropriate or would you want to see what in there again or is it soft flooring. Great chair. Yeah, Austin, I would love it if so our, our curator is in the audience and I was wondering if you could let her speak to this. I'm going to let everybody speak to everything in a minute, but I want to make sure that there are any other questions that you have for the committee and then we'll have everybody speak and then the committee will speak again. Okay. So, what I'd like to do is to invite members of the public who wish to speak there are 10 attendees about these kind of interior design elements that we have seen so far if you would signify by raising your hand. So the first one I see is Chris riddle can we bring Chris into the room. There he is. Chris, Chris is muted. Chris, did you want to speak. Thank you. Can you hear me now. Yes. Let's see I want to speak to the question of the color palette in the children's area in in contrast to the historic treatment of the interior walls. Great. I'm my, I'm a grandparent that has spent a lot of time in the children's area. And, and it's kids have enjoyed it they've been they, they like it but it is stodgy in there. And I think it's, I think I would encourage us to try to bring in some of this childlike spirit, even into the portions of it that are covered in woodwork and woodwork and wood in general, it can be done. You can do that. If you do it carefully I think you can combine primary colors and, and, and stodgy surroundings. I would, I would, I think that it can be very nice. I think it can be done. And so I would suggest that you go in that direction. Thank you. Thank you Chris. You see Bob Pam Bob. Okay Bob Bob. You're muted. Now, there you go. Okay, just one quick comment about the children's room. I spent a number of years in a small library in Connecticut. And in one corner of the room, the children's room. They had built a wall raised, but looked like a the effect of was of a tent. So that if somebody in the children's staff wanted to read a story to kids they could sit around in front of it and the speaker would be raised a bit. But mostly what would happen is that the kids would sit within this little room. And, you know, it gives them the same effect that the cubicles in the room that you see at the upper right corner now of your screen of little spaces that are private but not private. So I think it worked. I have a picture of that which I think I have shown in the past to folks at the library but I will send that to you again. Thank you Bob. Okay, any other member the public was to contribute to this part of the conversation. Catherine. Hang on a second. Okay, we can hear you. Catherine you know muted. I'm muted now. Thank you. Took me a minute there I'm on the phone so yes I am in special collections and I think I can hopefully speak to a little bit of the design there. Great. I did also want to mention to our design crew there that the special collections reading room is actually a public space I don't know if that really meant makes a difference to their overall design but I did notice that they had the same flooring as in our storage space in our private spaces. And the other another thing I did want to mention is that in the special collections reading room we will be bringing a most if probably most if not all of our tables and chairs and things that we currently have and they are all would primarily darker would. I don't know if that will just another thing to think about as you think of colors for our area. Don't know if you have any other questions but yeah. Thanks. So anything else you want to know about special collections. Well I know we're going to have like a separate discussion about as I don't take a very long time but just if any of these images are even sparking. You know anything that you would like to see happen in the more public spaces, just your thoughts on those or is it a completely off the mark or you know just any thoughts you have just initially on materiality. Yeah, I can actually tell you that on the bottom right image there. Those two display cases look very similar to the ones that we actually currently have and we'll be moving with us we just have different like. All right. Thank you Catherine. Okay, I don't see anyone else wishing at this point to speak to this part of the presentation so I'm going to come back to the committee. Oh, and it's going to come back to again Ellen and Leanne Alex. Yeah, thanks I just have one more comment I'm assuming that the designers have seen, or maybe it's poor assumption the Civil War tablets and what they look like to have a sense of, you know, how they, how you might want to be dealing with that room we do have this. Okay, and we do have someone who we are working with and so we can certainly send them over this and see what if any comments they have as well but just in Alex what is that person should we talk to that person would you think would be beneficial to us. Sharon, you let Sharon. Okay. Yeah, I definitely that I think I feel like this needs to be figured out Sean you're still here right shaman gano. Because so here we are providing the space but the, the design of whatever's going on the inside is that's going to be funded kind of separately. And there's a town counselor any galopes who is in charge of overseeing how this space will look, but I'm not sure how the funding of all of those pieces will happen. Anyway, that's an important piece and as far as meeting with these two people. Yes, I think it's, it's worthwhile. We have a call into this person and when I get a chance to speak with them. I'll arrange something with you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Sean, did you want to say anything in response to what Sharon just said. Not right now, but I think Sharon maybe you and I should connect about what types of costs. You're, you know, you guys are currently thinking about so we can start planning for that, or we can continue to plan for that. Thank you, Sean. Okay, again back to the committee, anything else that you want to say about what we have seen so far. And then back to Ellen and Leanne, do you have what you need from us at this point. I think we're good. No, I've, yeah, if you're all set, we're all set. Yeah. So I'm going to say again, how grateful we are for the thoughtfulness of the of this proposal. And I will say for myself, I particularly love the idea that you remember that it's low. The library is located in a place with rivers and mountains and authors and all kinds of wonderful things and seeing that you thought about that is incredibly impressive. And we're really grateful that you that that you did that and we're really grateful that you didn't think about our town. It was the 300 days when it's simply gray and cloudy here. So it was really great great grateful for that. Okay, so it is, it is a beautiful place to live. So I think we're all, I think we're all set Leanne on your part Craig Ellen. Okay, we're. Okay. Well thanks everybody nice to meet you. Thanks for your work. Thank you. See you next time. I look forward to it. So next up will be if the design team's ready the discussion of the young adult program relocation. Yes, so I'll share my screen, if I can. And a reminder this is something that the design team is looking for a decision on tonight. Great. It's only enabled me to share my screen. If you want to continue. Okay. Josephine. Okay, great. Thank you. So what we just want to run through with you tonight is sort of a development that we have been seeing as we are progressing through in a little bit more detail with plans. And our consultants. We're going to find the spaces a little bit more and we are thinking that the location for the young adult might be better served in the north part of the addition. The northern most section of the addition. So what we're just going to run through with you here tonight is that the location of this of this switch what that means for YA and for the space where YA was previously. And, and as Craig mentioned, if everyone is in agreement, we would like sign off tonight on that. Okay. So what you see here in front of you right now is the plan that was proposed to you a few weeks back shows YA here in this previous location. So I'm going to flip over to the proposed plan now of the new YA location and so I know most of you have seen this already as we share this with you but now you see YA located up here in this northern northern portion of the addition. So what this does clearly is it opens up this main space again which we all really loved from that original rendering that we shared with you folks back a couple years ago. And, and so it opens it back up which is a great opportunity for the space again. So with our structural layout, we're finding that having some of these dividing walls that YA really needs is working with the structural layout as well. So it's sort of helping out in a couple different ways with the new YA collection here what we did was kept some of the stacks outside just as we had previously kept some of the stacks outside of the entry area of the YA area, and then I'll zoom in here. I'm not sure if everybody can see this. Sorry. We can see it just when we can see your cursor the orange dot yes. Yeah, you can see the spaces, the rooms, the tags. Okay, great. So you can see here how we laid it out where we have the group study and the YA office sort of flanking the digital media area area and the idea is that all of these walls would mainly be glass so there's great sight lines. So what else this does is introduces more staff presence in this area which I know was a concern previously as well. And, and then we have the larger YA program room, flanking the back section here. So, I guess I'll just stop there and see if there's any questions as far as the YA program and maybe start to get some initial reactions and Ellen Tony feel free to chime into if there's any YA area that I missed. Go ahead, Ellen. No, I was just for us architecturally the biggest benefit is to get us back to where we were in that main space, because I think we're all a little disappointed what putting the YA there did. Now my recollection, this is the question. When you had the YA space where it was in the previous rendering. Didn't you plan to have bathrooms kind of right next to the young adult space in that, in that place. We had shifted them to this location here. I see. Okay. That's fine. And then my other question go back to the other part. My other question is, and again, I'm just now not remembering. Did the flooring plan that we saw it didn't anticipate this is that right Sharon. Okay. Yeah, correct. Okay. All right. Like Christine and then I think Alex Christine. Yeah, so first off what asked him saying was it. I don't remember two or three bathrooms but are those the only, yeah, the only two bathrooms. Those ones next to the teen area now are those. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And glass wise, if you come out of those bathrooms to the right where you look, I'm sorry, it's, could you zoom in a little bit just being sure. Really hard to see. Thanks. So if you like him out of those bathrooms, and you look to the right, is that glass that looking into the program room there. Currently we're showing it as glass. Okay. And is there glass above that the door entering into that room. If you go north. Yeah, right here. So is that a solid wall and it would be a glass door, or why isn't there glass there just wondering it's Yes, so I think it's just because of, oh, I can see each other that they're showing a solid, but we are showing all glass here. Okay, great. And I was wondering, would it be beneficial at all to have a little bit of glass and part of the wall of the YA office there, looking out into the hall towards those bathrooms in the back stairwell on just thinking about, you know, teens or whatever invisibility and sight lines. And my last comment is when I looked at the amount of square footage for the YA collection between the two plans one of the only things I noticed is it was a decrease in shelving by like at least 150 square feet in that area where you have it now compared to. You know, if you just go somewhere else, I don't know. You know Sharon might be able to talk about like the collection size or whatever I don't know. Sharon. I think that in the previous location, I think there was more space for the collection needed, but I would need I didn't, I didn't catch that so I would need Josephine to double check. I believe it was like 525. I believe it was like 560 or 570 or something before. So just certainly the numbers and see we are with the collections. Thank you. I'm guessing that it's, it's probably pretty close. The square footage isn't always telling of the collections themselves. But we can definitely circle back. I'm going to make sure Sharon that whatever it is that being done here is both adequate now and has enough, you know, going forward. Alex. So, before I say what I was going to say just be in my accurate when I'm looking at the stacks and they have numbers on them like five, three and seven, but that speaks to the height of the stack. Okay, so what changed Christine is in the old design they were all fives and across the north wall you now have four sevens. So my guess is that we increase stack height to make up the difference in square footage would be my guess because we now have four taller stacks than we did in the old drawing. What I was looking at before was they actually give you the square footage of the shelving I actually. Yes, so the total was higher before. Yeah, totally understood the question that's what I'm saying so I can scare footage was made up by it looks like higher stacks. So I just wanted to say, thank you very much to FAA. So when I was looking at this design, I looked back at the email that the head of young adult services put together saying what all of their needs were and this hits on everything that they asked for nearly everything that they asked for so I just wanted. I want to speak on behalf of the young adult but I mean, thank you it looks, it looks like everything they asked for is there and the other thing. Christine just so you know that right next to the collection so there's the YA entry. So that's actually the fully staff desk where you have somebody. The office is an actual office space where that won't always be staffed so that's the sight lines tend to be from that YA which is YA entry because that's an actual desk so thank you. So I have a question about the young adult space I've kind of. I've kind of tried to follow its movements. So it's, it's. Is this it now. It didn't travel quite a way didn't it Austin. It's gone. It's come a long way. And, you know, at every step of the way, there was very good reason for where it was placed. And I've understood some of the movement are driven by program elements. Um, and this, this ladder movement. I don't know what it's driven by. I mean, is it driven by the fact that we all looked at where the young adult space was in the prior iteration and said, Oh, I'm going to come up the wall stairs and just stare into the space. Yes. Yeah, that was that was definitely drive a driving factor. And then I think just one other thing is just looking at with our structural consultants looking at that's great. So those two things I think really that that really made us go this direction. And are you pretty sure that this is it for the young adult space. I think. Yes, I would say we're, we're sure we wouldn't have brought this up. Austin, if we didn't think it was a great move. And you know, our mission is to give you guys the best library we can give you when we think this helps. Yeah, but every move you make is driven by giving us the best thing and you've put the best thing in three different places so saying it's the best thing is it doesn't doesn't. No, we think it's won't move again, unless Sharon tells us. I was just going to say in their defense, all of the moves, a lot of the moves has been because staff have requested sure that's fine. That's fine. No need to defend it. This is great. Everything is everything's great. Christine. So another comparison that I had from the previous to this one which I assume is all built on programming numbers and forecasting. I do notice this conference room is much smaller than what it previously was to the point where if you put your actual like 3D head into this. The chairs are very close to the wall. It's not a walk around room. It's really tight and this thing. I just wanted to put that out there functionally. I thought it was kind of small. And I did ask my young adult kids what they thought of this they were wondering why the two video screens are next to each other and you have all the chairs in front. They were kind of saying that you kind of want the two different screens so you might have two different things going and it's just confusing to have them right next to each other that was their comment. And they also questioned the desks with the computers above because they said that they wouldn't really want to be facing people as much and most people have all kids have their own Chromebooks or laptops and wouldn't actually be using computers. So I don't know, maybe two different tables or so. I don't know. So they just, they were, they weren't sure that they would want to sit at those. And I just want to ask a question of boots. There's a lot of boots, and how that comes about is that's the chosen desired space that kids want to go in. The problem my kid said is like UMass and the dining commons. The problem with the boots is like one kid plunks in there, and then nobody else will sit there very often. So there's not much flexibility. That's it. Thanks. So I don't think we can assume that every kid has their own Chromebook. Whatever, whatever is we doing. They're given one for free through the school system. Okay. The other question I have is, what is it that you're asking for us now? Are you asking location? Are you asking dimensions? What is the sign off that you need? We would like approval of the new location for why we understand that little things can shift here and there. Right. Within the space. Correct. So I just wanted to see whether we can focus on that question. Are you ready to say. Y a at the north end of the building as shown in this diagram. Christine. Could we just briefly look at what it was before. Sure. Sort of look at conference room and layout and extra space. Sure. Function room. There you go. Like you said, Austin, it keeps changing. So, yep. I just want to, that just looked roomier in some ways where yet the function room is much smaller in this than the new one. So how does this part of programming, because if the staff is asking for this, I mean, there must be a reason why they feel it'll function better in the proposed space. Can I just, just being you can chime in. Sorry, Austin, is that so the program numbers that we have and we don't have, I don't have in front of me. Safe from the safe instance that conference room was required to be 200 feet, but this, that this layout allowed it to be bigger because that's the space we had. So when you go to the new proposed one is that we're hitting the program in what just because of the layout that the multi-purpose room gets bigger. So there's it's all within the same program and it just gets shifted around but in just when you would know better than I we are hitting the program minimums that were requested. Right. We're hitting the programs that were were were requested. I think we did have a little bit more room to play with here and I do believe these numbers actually are larger than what was requested program. Sharon. Yeah, I just wanted to say so to put put minds at ease, our children, our teen librarian Cecilia did approve this in fact she had a big hand in designing the layout of this. She does want and she works, she has a teen advisory board that she works with so she does want the booths she the beauty of the way this is laid out is that you've got a desk in the upper corner for, I don't know what it says, but the person can sit there at a desk and Cecilia can be in her office so you've got oversight of that entire work by two different people. And the computers, it is true not everybody has a computer. And we need oversight over those computers so that's why they're laid out that way we want to see what they're looking at on those screens, not that we're staring at them monitoring them but just in case. So are we ready to give our approval to the relocation of the young adult if anybody has an objection to it please speak otherwise we'll just assume we are all in agreement. Christine. So, just wondering. I know it's an architectural there's a flush wall but could the wall move a little bit for the conference room to have a little bit more space in it since it is just a really wide walkway there. When you say conference room, Christine. The other one on the other side study. Yeah, not the office the actual study. I'm not sure about the quarter dimensions because we don't necessarily want to make it feel too. I'm sorry I mean the northern wall, I guess it's the north the upper wall just staying within the YA area we I'm sure we could. Yeah, I'm sure we could do that give them a little bit more area in this. So we're going to get a chance to look at this all again is that right. What you want from us, we are going to be meeting with Sharon with your groups as well to have you know workshop sessions with all of your staff. So yes. So, other other questions or thoughts about this particular space. So on the basis of what I've heard I've heard no objections to this. So I think the committee is signing off. On this. Also, can I ask, can I ask that we do a roll call vote just for the minutes on this one. Would that be okay. So Angie, do you, again, I'll do whatever it is that you suggest when we make, when we approve changes like this. Is it your preference that we actually do a roll call vote. It makes it cleaner for the minutes in order to track the flow of the project. Totally fabulous thank you for this. Thank you for this suggestion before we vote. I think I see a hand up Bob Pam. Can you hear me. Yes. Okay, just a question because what I am looking at is that the entrance to the YA is down a not very long haul but but that's the single entrance into it. And the, the, going the other way, going to the right. It's again a long haul up to the bathrooms and each of those first for for the YA. I don't know that they, there ought to be two exits in order to allow fire egress. But on the other side, there will be long periods of time while school is in in session when it'll be a long walk with nobody there as someone goes to the bathroom and I just thinking about those two points. Thank you Bob. Do you have anything to say about the, the entrance points. The question that Bob raised. I think I can speak to the to the YA sharing might want to correct me, but I do believe that it was directed by staff that they wanted the entrance at that point we actually were showing it somewhere else and and that was requested to be in that location and please Sharon, if I, if I'm incorrect. No, no, that's great. Yeah, now the team librarian suggested that that the entrance go through the stacks so that the teenagers actually have to walk through the stack area in order to get into the teen space so that's why it is where it is. And I don't think it's very far right can you tell me how many feet you're talking about Josephine. I can't tell you an exact dimension but it's probably about 20 feet. Yeah, it's exactly Tony. Yeah. Okay, it is a kind of does I'm glad Bob raised the question it does have a kind of odd quality to it doesn't you kind of walk 20 feet to go find the door. But, and we can work on that is just been saying this is just the general. Yeah, this is where it is and will, there'll be a fair amount of massaging. So just don't move it again. Christina. Yeah, we'll need good way faring. Just an interesting point that Mr. Pam brought up how it is a fairly large area and when you're way into the program room. How does fire code work with that because normally there would have to be a second exit with their depending on especially how many people are gathered in a room kind of depends on the distance Christine will double check that. So, I'm now going to ask us to vote on the location of the young adult room. Yes indicates that you approve. No indicates that you do not. And this is the based on what we're seeing in front of us right now, George. Yes. Thank you. Christine, do you have a question before we vote. I do have a question as a town committee I'm just, is this a straw poll that we'll be doing from now on or are we actually making a motion and someone seconds it. And then we approve it. I was just so I am, I am, I am moving and seconding that this is where the teen room, the young adult room be. Would anybody like to second my second. Second. Thank you so much. Okay. Let's start again George. Yes. Thank you, Christine. I'm sorry. So, then, then you ask if there's any more questions or at that point, and then you, if there is none or if there is some, then you do the vote sorry, it's just for a town committee and I know Angie's trying to follow how procedure. I believe I followed power proper procedure. So, but if I'm, but if I'm wrong, Angie, tell me that I'm wrong. So, I think you've offered plenty of opportunities for discussion want to. So, is it okay with you and we proceed this way. I'm fine with it. Yeah. Thank you so much Christine. I just want to know if it was a motion or a struggle. So thank you. Okay, so again, I appreciate your intervention. It is a motion. And the motion has been made and I believe seconded. Let's vote George. Yes. I think you're carrying a lot of weight that's three votes so far George, Christine. Yes. Thank you, Sharon. Yes. Sean. Yes. Thank you, Alex. Yes. Thank you, Austin votes yes. And again, great thanks for this. Craig. What is next. So next topic are the design team will be presenting the gender inclusive toilet. Great. Latest design based on comments from last week. Right. So hold on one second. I want to make sure that. Before we do this, Alex. Yeah, I just want to ask one quick question while we have the design team here and this may or may not be the appropriate time, but right. So the, the team space. Fabulous. Totally what the team coordinator asked for. In other parts of the. Schematics. And I'm looking specifically at the ESL. We have a list similarly created by the head of that department. And I don't see that same level of detail in my assumption. And I don't want to make an assumption. I just want to make sure that we get through design development. Those elements that have been requested. We'll be incorporated. So I just want to make sure that my assumption is correct. Go ahead. So we will be going through more. Detailed meetings with staff. As we move forward. So if there is any, you know, missing items, we can definitely touch upon them at that point. Okay. You said Alex. Yeah, yeah, because there's definitely some request for glass and things that I'm not seeing. Thank you. Okay. So the areas that we just flip flopped. So now we have this beautiful and I can envision the CLT above it. And there's a lot of stacks, but there's a big space. And I think there's some window seats, but is this still being developed Josephine? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if there's potentially tables or chairs in between all those stacks or. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Thanks. Thanks, Christian. Okay. So now to the restroom layout. Yes, I think we're a bit out of sequence here. So just give me a second. Sure. Tony, were you going to jump in on this one? Sure, I can do that. Okay. So this scheme that we're presenting to you today or tonight is a response to what we heard last week. And what we've developed here is a, as an option that really modifies. Be with some accommodations from C. So the key thing about this, and it just, you want to pull your mouth through it. Is that we relocated the entrance to it coming opposite the main public corridor. Adjacent to the stairs and elevator. And by coming in this way. We've built a lot of, we've built a lot of space here. We've built a lot of storage. We've built a lot of storage. We've built eight stalls, but we've introduced a larger family. Stal in the lower left hand corner. Yeah. Previously was where the gender just cause extended and storage. Existing storage. Extended. So that is its own thing, which is able to be. You know, have its own private door is its own. Contained sink. Toilet course. So we've built a lot of space here. We've built a lot of space here. We've built a lot of space here. We've built a lot of space here. We've built a lot of space all within. This whole bathroom. And the sinks have been self relocated. And as a result of this, we've also made some adjustment in wall location. So it's from privacy standpoint. We're now not seeing into. Sink areas, mirrors. All those concerns that were previously sprayed. Was the retaining openness of entrance into this. Gender neutral bathroom. So that's the primary difference. And it retains the generous cause in the lower right. So I just want to ask a question. I think, I think it was decided the last meeting, but. We, there was some conversation about there was. In one of the designs. There was a, an individual gender inclusive. And that seems to have been. Gone, right? Is that correct? Are you referring to this Austin? The space. It was a dedicated one on the upper right corner where just when it was circling there. Yeah. Which has now been. Removed and replaced with storage for the gallery. Okay. And I think we were calling that one just being the family bathroom where we had the gallery storage. Right. That's correct. So part of the reason I asked this question. Is. This is the only restroom. These are the only restrooms that'll be available. After hours. Correct. That's correct. If I, if I. If there were people that did not want to use this gender inclusive restroom. This is a question I think was asked before. After hours, they, this is it. Correct. Okay. All right. Thanks so much. Thanks. I just wanted to share that Walter Lloyd, who's on our equity justice and inclusion committee and who made the comments last time about. Motorized wheelchairs and accessibility. Was unable to attend the meeting, but said, and I'm quoting, I really like option D. It's good to have other accessible stalls than just the family stall. So people in wheelchairs don't have to wait a long time. If the family stall is being used. I definitely think we should go with options. D would it also be possible to move the janitor's closet to where the single bathroom was going to be, although that looks like gallery storage now. And make a large accessible stall that isn't a family one. Anyway, just thought I had a possible improvement. Best. Walter. So just wanted to pass that along. Thank you, Alex. Christine. I have a couple of questions. So if you. First of all, I. I just think we're. We're not really offering everyone and a comfortable option when we take the family bathroom and put it in the very back of this one large bathroom. I know when I was needed, the family bathroom with my kids and you have a double stroller and you're trying to head through all that stuff. So if I'm looking at the doors there, I can see that the family bathroom. Door and the first stall, those doors would actually potentially be hitting each other. So it's a very tight corner there. So you're trying to get your double stroller in or your wheelchair in and there's someone's coming out of that stall. And those doors are hitting. So I have concern with that. As to toilets, I thought for code. I think it was a little bit more complicated for people in the Woodbury room. It was eight toilets. And now that we've moved a family bathroom into it. That's nine toilets. I don't know why it's not eight. And. Yeah, that's enough. Thanks. So before showing, I bring you in. Did Josephine or Tony or Ellen want to say anything in response to either Alex's question or Christine's question. No, no. I mean, we can make it eight. We can make it nine. We just kept it. We had space for nine. We could take on away. Sean. How many changing stations will there be in the bathroom? Which stalls will have changing stations? And this is, you know, as a dad of three girls that have had a kind of fight for changing stations and thinking the library might be a popular spot where those will be needed. I think it depends on how this layout ends up. Being, you know, realized as we develop it further right now, we're only showing one. Could we get two in there? Probably. I would advocate. Yeah. There's a way to get them and all the larger sized stalls. I think one would be tough, but. Okay. Christine. So with that thought of getting rid of one stall. If on the right hand side, you got rid of one of the single stalls, you could make one of those slightly larger ones, even bigger. And again, to what Walter was saying, that would be bigger bathroom for a wheelchair to use and you could get another family. Maybe changing station. Thank you. So. Again, Josephine Ellen Tony. What is it that you want? You want us to sign off on this? Is that what you were hoping for? We have. And we, and I apologize. I wasn't here last week, but that's what we want. And we, we're at the point right now is that we have to pick one. Now, if we pick one and that's fine and we need to finish our design development drawings. And I don't, I don't want to stifle what you guys are trying to do because I think it's a great thing to get these bathrooms to feel comfortable for everybody. So we need you to pick one so we can go ahead with. And this is turning set is a combo of doing a couple of tweaks to the ones folks were gravitating to last time. All right, Sean. To Christine's earlier point, is there a way that the family stall could be moved closer to the entrance? But to. So you wouldn't have to walk through the entire bathroom. We could study that. Well, Tony, we can study that, but we've been studying these bathrooms for six months. We can, we can, we can move it there or not. I mean, to come back to you guys in another week and then ask you if this one's okay. I mean, Austin asked what we wanted. We want a decision, but we can, we can move it there. And then it's a done deal. So if you take a look at this plan and those, and to follow your point, Christine. If we take those two handicap stalls that are currently down in the lower right-hand corner. And follow what you're suggesting, which is if we combine these and move those, both of them north plan north and then take those two regular stalls and move them plan south. Just put that will enable that additional. In some ways, a secondary family bathroom to be relocated there in the upper right corner. And large enough to accommodate a secondary sink and changing table within it. And then remove and push the two down. So we reduced the count to eight, but we have now two decent size. In effect, family stalls within this, one of which is right at the entrance. Because we're taking one of these out. So that could be a way that we could accommodate in some ways, a responsive question you raised. Chris. What has to be raising Sean. Right, Tony. But what has to, we do have to just review again is toilet counts. Because we had that individual one. In addition to the eight previously. So, right. So we. We've just been just to be clear. We always had nine. Because we had the one that was where the gallery is. Right. I'm separated out, I believe. So that's the reason why. Now that it shifted. So we just need to recheck our accounts before. Yeah. Any promises, but that's all. Yeah. I think Christine has another question. Christine. Actually through the SD, we only had eight because there was no other single bathroom. That wasn't added until the last time we talked about, because I kept. And others asking for. A family bathrooms. It wasn't in this one so that people could have a second option. And just, I think the end goal here is, I think a lot of discussions happening because this has never been done before. If you go online, we can't find. Any of the bathrooms because we're on bleeding edge here. And my understanding is the plumbing, the Massachusetts plumbing board is extremely conservative. They are turning down and refusing some variances. If you Google this online. And I want a win where we can go and they might actually buy onto this. And, and it won't just get shot down. And then we're back to actually redesigning the bathroom again. And I also understand that maybe Craig or someone can talk to this, that there's a process that before it even goes to the Massachusetts plumbing boards, it's not like UMass that they went straight there that we actually have to go through our own. Building commissioner and plumber inspector in town. And I'm wondering, have they looked at this? Did they have any opinions? Because they have to buy in and approve it first. My understanding is that. Thank you so much, Craig. Oh, that matches my understanding. The first stop is the local plumbing inspector. Which is a, is a meeting that we can, we can arrange. So Christine's question was, have they seen what we are seeing? The answer is not yet. Is there. Okay. Correct. All right. So any other thoughts, questions about this. Bathroom design. Now we are now. Again, I want to just follow through on what Christine asked and what Tony. Suggested. Are we now inclined. Tony Ellen, Josephine. To the. Tony's just suggested. We can do that. But as Josephine mentioned, we have to double check the, the toilet accounts and Christine earlier in the STs, we did have eight. We bumped it up to nine. But we, we just have to double check. We can't. We can't have a short ourselves on bathrooms. And the other thing just as a side note, in those handicapped stalls, they would have a changing table, a changing full down changing table as well. So we have a number of opportunities to locate those. And the dimensions of those two handicapped stalls. In the lower right. Are they what they roughly what they were in? Was it option? I forgot what the option was option C. After Walter had talked about their accessibility. We do have those options laid out. If you wanted to take a look at them. I just want to make sure that well, Walter remember in our meeting last time had provided very good. Feedback for us. And I just wanted to make sure that we weren't sacrificing. You weren't losing that, that. Feedback in, in this. If you could bring those up just fine. I think that would be helpful. Great. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Yeah, there weren't weren't dimensions on them. And that's the only reason I couldn't recall if, if they were the same size. Yeah. Yeah. I see. Okay. Other questions about the, this. This design. And again, I want to thank. Thank you. Thank you. And just follow what Christine said. This, it isn't just that this is the. You know, this is a very complicated. Yes. Thing for the town. And it's a very important thing that we get right. And you guys know it. And you've been fantastic through this as we work our way through it. So. And getting it. Getting it right is. You know, I mean, this is going to be the space in after hours. So we, we really want to make sure it's going to work. And that's, that's kind of why we're. We're running up and then running down. So to speak this, this, this problem. So. Christine, did you have your hand up? No, you. Okay. Okay. Well, thanks so much. Sharon. We understand that we get, we get it. Austin. I was trying to hold back, but I can't. So. I know, I know. So. In option D. Those two handicapped stalls. I don't think are as large as what Walter was looking for. And so if, if you all can. Figure that out. So you're going to do the toilet counts. Going to make sure we have enough. If I don't. I don't know. I hate to forget it. I'll just stop there. If you all could make those bathrooms bigger somehow. It would be lovely. Thank you for all your patients. Okay. So we haven't quite gotten where you wanted us to be, but I hope we've. We've moved the ball a little bit, Alex. Yeah. I just want to say that, you know. We purposely sent this out to Walter to look at and Walter. Was fine with, with option D. Great. I guess my thought is. If we only need eight bathrooms. I personally. Great. Appreciate the work. I'm happy to sign off on this. If. I mean, if we really need eight bathrooms, the extra space to those that. Tony suggested, like, I'm not going to do that. And if we have to do nine, then I'm also fine signing off on this one. So. If that gives enough direction, that's, that's at least one. George. I agree with Alex. Okay. Sean. I agree with Alex to the, the one thing I would say. And it just, I'm trying to visualize if I've ever been in a bathroom like this. And it's just going back to Christine's comments about the doors hitting each other. If there's a, structure in a way where doors wouldn't open and close into each other. I'm just trying to think like. The doors stuck open. Is it going to block another door that's closed? It just. I haven't, I'm just wondering if there's a way to reconfigure so that doors don't potentially collide. So I'm part of the cut response is that the door swing either in or out. Can be looked at. It just depends on. Like even the family with that swung in. And yes, we did look at that Tony. What to maximize your space. You swing the door out, but if we want to sacrifice a little space, we can swing it in. So that's easy to do. Yes. Okay. So it seems to me that. We have some direction. Which is if you can expand. Depending on the toilet cone. It depends on. Like, even the family with that swung in. And yes, we did look at that Tony. What to maximize your space. You swing the door out. But if we want to sacrifice a little space. We can do that. We can do that. Okay. Okay. Okay. So if you can expand the toilet count. In the way in which Tony responded. That seemed to be something that committee would like you to consider. If you can't. Then the question is, and I guess I'm just going to ask people to vote so that we can put it in the minutes. Whether or not the committee. Is willing to sign off on option D. As it is. If. The toilet count. Requires that there be nine. We're ready to decide that. Okay. So. In the spirit of moving things, I'm going to make. The motion. That we ask FAA to consider. The alternative that Tony. Outline. If that is not feasible because of the toilet count. We would ask FAA to go forward with option D. Is there a second to that motion? Second. Thank you. Any further discussion. Christine. I still feel that the family bathroom should be put across the hall or this configured so that it could be accessed from the hallway. And not have to maneuver through a room like this. And it gives. All people a second choice if they're not comfortable with going into this one room with all genders. Okay. Any. Other. Suggestions comments. Okay. The motion is to consider. The suggestion that Tony made. And. Depending on the toilet count. To go with option D Sharon. Yes. Oh, I, your hand was up. I didn't know what you had. When you had a question. Okay. So. Let me, let me, let me ask, I just want to clarify. So Tony, when, when you said just to address what Christine was saying. Are you possibly going to maybe be able to take the family restroom and put it closer to the front, the door. That was the idea and suggestion. Yes. Thank you. Then, then yes. I vote yes. Again, I'm not sure Christina are you asking. Another question or are you voting. I'm saying that I'm not voting the question. The motion says that. They're going to look into if it can be reduced into down to eight, which at that point they will redesign. Or if it has to stay at nine, we go with option D. Correct. So. We're really voting on if, if it is have to be nine. Is it option D. Correct. Okay. So. Sharon has already voted. She's voted yes. George. Yes. Christine. No. Sean. Yes. Sharon. Oh, you've already voted. You don't get to vote again. Alex. I didn't hear what you said, Alex. I'm pushing duty buttons. Yes. Thank you. And Austin votes yes. Okay. Correct. Next on the next discussion point is about the professional renderings. So I saw as final Alexander was flipping through, I think they've got some recommendations. Just for everyone's benefit. These are outside or in addition to find all Alexander's base contract. They did include a. A unit cost of $2,000 per rendering, which is inclusive of both their time as well as professional renderers time. And for your consideration, we do have a under expenses, a miscellaneous line item for $11,000. And now I'll turn things over to find gold Alexander. Great. Find gold Alexander. Thank you. Thank you. What we'll do is just walk you through the plans that we've highlighted where we think potentially interior renderings and then the exterior renderings to follow that. Could potentially be taken. So we'll start off at level one. And so we are showing a camera spot with the blue circle. And the direction of the view is with these lines. The three spots that we're considering are of course, the central space. Where the Cirque desk in the main stair is looking straight back. Another view is taken at the. Children's area. Looking towards the new portion of the children's space. And then one view, which you folks have seen, you know, a few weeks back, just a rough rendering that we did in-house of the double vaulted existing space of the reading room for the adult fiction. Looking straight on towards the back. So these are the three spots that we envision would be nice renderings and wanted to get your feedback on. So that's something that you can review and take back to you and decide for next week would be great. If you could have a decision on that. So this is for level one. I don't know, Tony, if you want to add anything to that or Ellen. No, I think I think you explained it pretty well. Okay, so we'll. Let's see, Christine. I think has her hand up. Christine, do you have a question about this? I do for the first floor. I thought. I just was wondering, was it considered the middle camera to come from the north, looking south, only to give it a. Different look. You can see the old and the new then looking towards them. The front entrance. Just. Was wondering. That's a good question. I don't think we actually looked at that view. And Tony correct me if I'm wrong. I know we looked at a lot of views in the past several years, but I don't know if we actually took a shot there and looked at that. But that's one for consideration. If you want to see the existing. When we do, since we have the view set up internally, any ways by Revit. To guide that we can take a look at that. Christine and see if that view makes sense or is a better angle. Sure, we can dig into that. Thank you. Great. Thanks. Sean. This is probably a silly question. What's the goal of the rendering? Is it to help the committee make decisions or is it to build? Sort of build excitement around the project. So. Building excitement. I think Sharon might want to speak to that. I see your hand up. Yeah. Definitely for the capital campaign committee. Yeah. We've got a few million. That we need to raise and this is going to help. Okay. So it's not, again, it's not for us to visualize what it looks like. It's, it's for that. Also help us. But it really will make a difference. I think. As Sharon described. Alex. Question comment. I'm not sure which it is, but in past renderings. You know, the focus of the rendering has been sort of on the architecture as one would expect. But then the furniture or the carpet that's put in there. Sometimes it's at odds with what I think the town sort of expectation is around furniture. And I just want to put out there that I don't, I don't know what furniture gets plugged in, but if we could make sure that that doesn't wind sort of taking away from. From things that would be great. Thanks. Okay. Any more, any more questions about that? The renderings on the first level. I mean, the, this is the. Yeah. This is the first love. This is the. Right above the. The garden level. Yeah. So we're good on this. You want to. Go elsewhere. Yes. To level. Two. We have been showing this view for. We have been showing this view for. We have been showing this view for. Two. Two. We have been showing this view for years. To everyone. Yeah. We assume that we would be taking a. Updated rendering view from that, from that spot. Again. We did introduce another one here. Center spot. Yeah. And again, you know, just want me to get feedback. From the group. Okay. Any questions about these. Proposed rendering Sharon. Yeah, I'm only wondering why you're not presenting the, the two reading rooms. You know, the beautiful spaces. Air question. So we did have a couple of, I think it was. Pencil sketches way back when that we had. You know, we had a lot of, a lot of work that we had shown renderings of in those spaces, but we are actually saving. A lot more of the. Existing. Infrastructure within the space. And so the rooms actually in the, in, it's not one big space anymore. So they are smaller, but we could potentially still look at having. So it's not just before calling Alex, I want to make sure I'm understanding this. You're, you're going to show us proposals for renderings that do not increase the costs. Right. So these are additional. These are all additional. Right. These are professional renderings that are in addition to. Right. So if you want to do another one, then it's yet another $2,000. Yes. Okay. Alex before I call on you, I just want to call it correct, correct. Yes, sorry if I didn't make that totally clear, but yeah, $2,000 are rendering and we have $11,000 in a category, which I think would be appropriate to use for these renderings. So we have $11,000. So if you guys could pick. Maybe up to five. Once you like best, that would be perfect. Okay. Alex and then George Alex. So I'm sorry, Josephine, the rendering, which is the one, you know, sort of off the staircase. Since we're going back to sort of the original design, is there. Like, I know it's a pretty rendering, but don't we sort of already have it? Like, is there going to be a significant enough change to the rendering that it makes sense to pay additional money for that rendering? Well, all of the statute through fiscal. So that's a significant change for the lighting, et cetera. And I guess maybe Tony can speak a little bit more about the process of how we work with the render. Yeah. I think to follow what Craig is saying, sometimes when we work with the renders on our own time, we can save a little bit in bundling them. So we might be able to pick up a six rendering for the $11,000 cost. If we do that, but that you're correct that this one view. I think we can probably go back to the last slide. I think we can probably go back to the last slide. That's looking from the one we did previously. The render can take what they did. And probably within the constraints modify. So I think Alice. We can probably grab total of six renderings for the 11 K. Good. All in. And I just want to echo Sharon's thoughts. I think it would be. Valuable to have a rendering of a restored space, which one we pick, you know, I'm amenable to the group, but I do think there's value in that. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thank you. George. Yeah, I'm literally going to echo what Alex just says, I think a rendering of, even though the rooms are going to be smaller, I think a rendering of that reading room would be very. Positive for the people who. Want to know more about the restoration of the original spaces, because that in particular that is a space that most people have not seen. All right. Okay. Any other questions about. These, this level of these renderings. We have one more page to go. Sure. Just going back to the exterior. We will need to update these, of course. We have the two views that we've been looking at for several years. From Amity street in the rear. The one that we have to introduce, we believe for, you know, historic reasons. I think the one on the opposite side of Amity street, looking the other direction towards the library. So again, we just want to get. Sign off that these are the exterior renderings that everybody agrees to moving forward with. I think I see Alex Alex. So I don't know if Berkshire design group is going to be giving us separate renderings, but again, so the renderings that we've gotten. I don't know if it's going to be the one from the strong house. Show. I mean, they sort of have taken away all of the landscaping and the grading issues that we're dealing with. And so again, if it's possible to have a more accurate representation of what you really going to be looking at from that angle. I certainly would appreciate it because I still don't quite understand how we're, how all the grading is working in the back there. I see Ellen nodding. So I take it that that was. I agree with you. I agree with Alex. I think it would be helpful to have that updated. Okay. So the question that we are being asked is. Are we satisfied with this plan for renderings? And do we want to include the one extra. In the restored rooms. That's what I'm hearing. And again, yep, Alex. So the only, and we may need to look at them again. So we're not showing the teen space. And I feel like there are, I mean, of the, of the 2000 people that sent us in responses. A thousand of them routines. And so I, I guess I just want to be cognizant of how big a deal it is that we're adding a teen space. And so I don't, I don't know what rendering give up an exchange, but I think there might be some value to that. I might make a suggestion. This first view that's taken head on to the entrance there. We eliminate that and substitute the team space. Because in some ways, the other view is kind of the more. I might use the word money shot, but it is that's there. And so that other view probably is not so critical. And I think to your point, Alex, the teen space is a program driver for sure. Are we all comfortable with Tony's just suggested. Ellen, are you comfortable with Tony's? What Tony's just suggested. Yes. Yes. And it just, I, you know, I was adding up the number of, it's a lot of renderings we're doing. So. A lot of renderings. Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to say they just showed us nine. Right. Ten options. So we still have to, we still have to bring it down to six. Right. We still have to keep it within the budget. Yeah. But in. No other use for that budget. I just want to be clear that that's the only use for the miscellaneous budget. Correct. No miscellaneous is to capture anything that doesn't appear in the other budget line items. So we have budget line item for advertising. We have budget line for printing. Miscellaneous is just kind of other things. And so this is the type of thing that would crop up. You could call it, you know, publicity imagery, something like that. So one, just to keep in mind, and maybe this is helpful, there is. In our mind, there's two buckets for the renderings. One is to help with the fundraising. Yeah. Those are critical. And the other one is to help with this town to understand what the library is going to look like. The best thing is to put those together as, as one, one package of renderings. And that's probably the most cost effective. And we, we do a, yeah, you know, Tony, you can chime in. We do a lot of projects that involve fundraising. And the renderings go a long way. Yeah, that's a really critical. And what is, you know, so that's one had it. You had to consider that what renderings are going to help you sell the project and get the most. Support in terms of financial. Yeah. And that's a side when we've done rendering proposals for clients because of the hybrid nature of some of these pre existing renderings modifying versus brand new ground up renderings from scratch. So this is just a quite exactly a two K per every rendering breakdown as Craig suggested, because we find ourselves, you know, internally saying, okay, there's some cost savings, like a benefit of course, if there's a pre-existing rendering and the render also goes lower because they're reworking the view. So I think to your question earlier, Austin, first determine the number of views that we have. I told them we have six renderings on the interior three on the exterior. Yeah, that's nine and replacing the young adult for that one. Right. So we have nine views. I think if we come to some kind of agreement with you, we can probably find some hybrid cost parameter. You know, will it exceed 11,000? Yes. I think there would be 18,000. If we're talking, you know, pure dollars. Tony, do we ever do nine views? That's a lot. Yeah, we're doing, we're doing 11 for a synagogue right now. Yes, we have exceeded. We've done even more than that for some projects. Okay. And we're hoping that three of them are sort of. Working. Right. But then that back one that Alex had commented on, and I agree. Yeah. That it looks distorted on what people are seeing. Yeah. And it should, it wasn't intentional. And I think it just needs to be brought into reality. Right. All right. Let's see whether we can make some progress here, Sharon. I just wanted to clarify. You're not looking for answers tonight. Right. We have more time. No. We don't have more time. No, you do have. Because I would, I would like to ask our capital campaign committee what, what they think. And I know one of them is in the, in the audience. And so when Austin asks for public comment, there will be more comments. So thank you. Great. Great. I think what we can do is update these to what we were just talking about tonight and send you the PDF. And then you can use that to discuss during the next week. Great. Great. Sean. Yeah. Again, I see that I understand the need for renderings. I'm just, I think what I need to think about more is, does it make sense for it to come out of the project budget or does it make sense for it to be paid for from the capital campaign as a cost of the fundraising effort? Just given what we know about our project budget and how tight our project budget is, is that the right spot for it? I'm not sure I understand the difference because every dime that the capital campaign is going to make minus its costs is going to be financing our project, but. Okay. Okay. So Sharon is going to get from you a PDF or revised PDF. Sharon's going to take it to the capital campaign committee, get their, get their views. Okay. Anything else to be said about renderings. Mr Craig. Thank you, Austin. There's one more thing that was a followup. The tally report. So there was a request a couple of weeks ago for the design team to come back for an update to the tally report. And in speaking with the design team, that's actually another item that is not in their base contract, but in speaking with them. The right timing for that might be at the end of this design development phase. So I just wanted to put that out there. We can say between now and next week, or one of the upcoming meetings, we're going to have to find out what the cost for that might be. And present that to you. Great. That would be very helpful. And that's all I have. Okay. Item C says determined next meeting. Sharon says determined next meeting the ninth of the 16th. That's Craig. I don't, I don't know what that means. So. If all the decisions had been made tonight. For each of the items. There might have been the possibility to skip next week's meeting. But I think there are still some things that we want to talk about next week. Correct. So we will plan to meet on the 9th of February at 430. Okay. On the agenda is the designs report from the design subcommittee. Christine. There is none, but I would like to ask it. The newest option D bathroom could be emailed to all of us. So we have it. Yep. That would be wonderful. Thank you. Alex outreach. I've received no cars. There's no correspondence that I know of. No topic not anticipated that I know of now an opportunity for public comment. There are seven attendees and we're grateful for your attention. Okay. I see no, no public comment. Again, I want to thank FAA. For your good work on the project and say again how exciting it is to be at this, seeing the interior pallet stuff is really very exciting. So thank you for that. And we'll look forward to seeing you. God willing next week. Well, don't let, don't laugh. I know it's going to be cold. But let's hope that's okay. If we make it through the weekend. In any case, good luck to everybody. So let's let's let's let's adjourn. Thank you. Thanks. Good night. Bye bye.