 Welcome to the Fiji Symposium 2019 in Cairo in Egypt, where I'm very pleased to be joined by Jean-Pierre, who's practice manager for the World Bank. Jean, welcome to the studio. Thank you. Good afternoon. Very nice to be here with you. Now, I'd like to start off by talking a little bit about the fact that digital financial services are not necessarily preferred over cash in a lot of environments. What do you think it will take for the world's poorest people to prefer digital financial services over cash? And will digital financial services, do you think, be enough for this to happen? So I don't think that digital financial services will be enough. I think they will contribute a lot to facilitating the access to the formal financial sector and therefore reducing the use of cash. Now, I think there are two elements. One, people use cash because they don't trust the financial sector, so part of it is to rebuild trust and in particular to make sure that the risk associated with the digital financial services are addressed, some of them around cybersecurity, some of them around reliability, otherwise it's more privacy. But I think on the other end, the benefits in terms of usage are what's going to make the difference. When people see how easy it is for them to be able to use those services, I think that's going to create really a demand for these instruments. And the other part is that some people today don't use cash because they have no other alternatives. When it's so difficult to open a bank account, when it's so difficult to have access to credit, then you stop even trying. If suddenly there are new tools, new products that are available and more easily accessible, I hope that we will see a boom in that respect. Now, in terms of innovations, what innovations do you think are required in regulatory collaboration to create enabling environment for digital financial services? So I think there are different sediment there. So first, regulation is necessary and needs to be there, including to protect the customers and to make sure that there is no predation, that there is no abuse. So it's not either or regulation. I think what's really important is to facilitate the entry of new players and make sure that there are new service providers that are authorized to provide financial services, in particular in digital finance. It doesn't need to be only banks. It doesn't need to be only telco. And I think it's important that we open up the market, create more competition that will facilitate access, reduce the cost, but also mutualize the risk to a large extent. I'd like to ask you if you agree with this statement. An unintended consequence of digital finance-led financial inclusion program is that it can lead to financial data inclusion, but not necessarily increase financial inclusion. So I don't agree with that statement. I think we have evidence that it brings both. So we have more data. It's really important. But at the same time, we have evidence that digital financial services do actually improve financial access. Now, I would add one layer to that element, which is that maybe unfortunately, but in public policy, being able to measure makes a difference. So what we are seeing also is that the more information you have on what's actually happening, the more policy makers understand, but also the more you can earn them to account to some extent and show whether there is progress and not progress. So I think we should not think of that in terms of either or, but how to better measure, better understand what are the challenges, and then better measure progress, and then we will have more effective public policy. How do you see the fintech sector reshaping digital financial services? So I think the fintech sector is really creating disruptions in the existing financial sector. Look at the attention being paid by existing financial players to fintech. And at the same time, creating new products and creating new ways of providing financial services that are really making a difference. So recently, I was having a discussion with a fintech service provider where they use how you use your phone, including social media, as a way to credit score. So it's not the traditional credit scoring, et cetera, but behavioral. So it has its risks, so we need to be careful that this is not abused. But at the same time, that may facilitate the access to credit to people who today will never be able to do it. So I think it's going to open up the market. Have people think very differently. Again, we need to supervise and monitor. But we are likely to find nuggets that we have not yet thought about. So if we're looking for a home loan, we should be careful what we're posting online. Exactly. OK. And finally, the World Bank here is obviously very involved in this event. What are the benefits of being involved with this event? And what do you hope people will take away from it? So what I hope people will take away from it is bring all the different perspectives together. So you have people from the industry, you have people from the regulation, the telecom, the financial service providers. You also have representatives from countries have a very, very different experience. And I think that exchange of knowledge, of good practices, what has not worked is really the huge benefit of these events. Now, I come here more involved in the Fiji in Egypt program, which is a really important one. We are supporting a very, very strong momentum by the authorities. It's a very important agenda. But I see also the benefit for the Egyptian colleagues to be able to hear from their friends in Mexico and China and really think a little bit outside the box and what can be learned from the others. Which brings me to my last question. I wanted to ask you, what role do you think governments can play to enhance the usage of digital financial services at the national level? So we always think of the role of the public sector in terms of regulations, supervision, et cetera. That's obviously a very important packet. But there is another one, which is the government or the delivery of public services. So if you receive your salary as a civil servant through digital finance, there are more incentives to use it. If you can pay your taxes using digital finance, I think all the issue around what is called GovTech and the use of digital by government can really make a huge difference. So it's not just an issue of regulation. It's also an issue of usage. And I think government can do much more there. Jean-Pierre, I'm practice manager of World Bank. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.