 When you do a strength training exercise or when you lift weights, there's two general approaches. The first one is to focus on the movement perfect. The movement, feel the movement. The second one is to feel the muscle. Both of them have distinct advantages and disadvantages. Try them both in your training. Do you think, do you think we're helping people or hurting them by telling them that I think sometimes I feel like that's like very confusing. Nope. Well, let's talk about it. That's why we have a podcast. We don't just end it. There's great. Yeah. A little bit further. Well, okay. So, so a good example of movement focus, strength training would be like a power lifter, right? Power lifter doesn't care about feeling the chest and a bench press or the quads in a squat. They're trying to maximize the biomechanics, trying to maximize the movement, lift as much weight as possible in the safest way possible. Bodybuilders are an example of the other option. Um, bodybuilders could care less about how much weight is on the bar. When they do a bench press, they want to feel the pecs, um, you know, squeezing and contracting, getting a pump. When they do squats, they want to feel it in their target muscles, right? Both of them have advantages. Uh, one of them teaches you how to really fire the central nervous system. And if you're especially, if you've only been lifting for a few years, that's the way you activate the most muscle fibers. The other way is advantageous as well, because it teaches you how to sculpt the body, shape the body, identify weak areas. And it's also less, uh, risk of injury when you work out that way. Totally competing goals though, competing mindsets, I should say. Yeah, it's interesting to think about that because, um, I mean, as you're doing, like, if you're just movement focused with that too, it's like, you're, you're still confined to like perfecting that whole process. Like I want to, I want to be loose enough. I want to, I want to add as much force as possible in the right optimal time and then be able to relax my body and end up in a position that I'm seeking out. And so it's like, to have like, you feel your muscles in that process would slow you down. It would kind of interrupt that whole flow. It's like a very like fluid mindset versus like the other is very much like, let's hyper focus on every little thing, every little nuance that's happening, contraction-wise with the muscles. Can I, can I feel this a little bit more intensively? Like bodybuilders do a really good job of making lightweight seem heavy. Yeah, I think that's a big thing. I feel like if you've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to work out with a power, a true power lift, there's always been power lifting, most their lifting career, right? And then a true bodybuilder, someone who's been training like a bodybuilder for most of their career. It's so obvious. So different. I mean, if, if you've got somebody who may be intertwined to go back and forth or, you know, lifts one way for a while, then changes as one thing. But if you, like you ran the exact same workout, same exercises, and you worked out with a power lifter and then you ran that back next week and you ran that with a bodybuilder, the experience of that workout would feel so different. You say it was, and you know, it's funny that this conversation is something that actually draws me back to Justin and I's when we first met because I don't really work out with a lot of people. Like I've talked about that so many times on the show, like I'm the guy who doesn't like workout partners and never been a fan of that. You're like that white snake song. Which one is that? Here we go. Who's the chick that's dancing on the car on that one? Oh, no, that's someone else. Did that did that video make her famous or was she famous? That video made her famous. So the video made her famous. I'm almost dating the lead singer. Or was that just like a random, like their producer or whoever? No idea. Sought her out. No idea. I so picture like Doug in like a high school dance to that song. Is that your high school dad? What do you are? Is that close? How close am I? I don't know what your that is. Oh, Tani Khatain. Oh, Tani. Damn, that can't be her real name. 1989. Where are you at? Where are you at? Everybody got a watch. 1989 I was, I graduated university by then. Oh, so you were still, it was still relevant. Yeah. Right. Well, no, he graduated so it hadn't even come out. So he was dancing something even older. Wow, I was trying to hook you up there. I was trying to hook you up for a couple of years there. I was dancing to Count Basie Band. No, you were. Who? Shut up. Shut up. All right, all right. Take it back. Take it back to what you were saying. But so Justin was one of the few people that I probably went through a stint that I lifted with pretty consistently. And it was always interesting to watch how different we did every exercise. Yeah, because you were a bodybuilder, folks. Yeah, I was totally bodybuilder. And I would even categorize me as like the extreme version of that. In fact, I remember getting introduced to training that way. And I used to like the point that Justin made right there was like I used to like to use the lightest weight but make it heavy, right? And because I cared just about the way I looked, that was like the thing was like I loved pulling up next to a power lifter guy, moving all his weight, grunting and slamming to make a big noise. And then I'd come over with my little itty bitty weight, but that would be jacked, you know, all shredded. So I used to get excited when, I mean, you'd bury me in some of these like hypertrophy workout. See, I feel like, you know, we're in a super set. That was my hack. I never super set anything before that. It was just all just like 100% like max effort like with each lift. You remember that, remember that workout we had with Ben Picolsky at his gym? Yeah. And he took all three of us through a workout. I mean, I think that's what the most awkward for me. I guess it was awkward ever seen Justin. He kept correct the, uh, Justin's form. Yeah, I was like, because Justin's not a bodybuilder. I was like, I'm pretty sure we're going to get in a fight if this keeps going this way. He kept going over and I'm going to move all my arms and like moving them and I'm just like, oh God. You got to feel it right here, feel this area. Justin's like, oh God, this is terrible. But I mean, this, it's, this is important. Understand about strength because they both have so much value. Like if you look at the studies on activating muscle fibers, okay, you will activate more muscle fibers if you fire the whole body. And that's what movement based training tends to do. Right. So when you bench press like a power lift, what do they focus on? Leg drive, activating the lats, like all these muscles in order to, to generate this neural drive that helps you lift the most weight. Bodybuilders like flare your elbows out, fail your pecs, squeezing at the top, feel the stretch, you know, at the bottom type of deal. Now, as you become more advanced, you can activate more muscle fibers without having to fire the whole central nervousness. So, so when you see these like really advanced lifters and they can really turn on a muscle without activating too many of the other muscles, that's a skill that's developed. But they're both valuable. Like I, like when you switched to power lifting style training, you probably saw a new muscle growth. Yeah. You know, and Justin probably when you went to hypertrophy. 100%. Yeah. So it's like these two, these two paths are not, it's not like you have to stay in one or the other. You, you should focus on both of them. And I would even make the argument that power lifters would, would gain value from doing some hypertrophy. In fact, I don't need to make 100%. They know that now. Yeah, no, 100%. I, you know, I, the part that the original point I made about are, you know, are we just confusing people more? I do think that this sheds a little bit of light on sometimes when you see these different pieces of content that go viral, that also as a consumer, becoming aware of who's presenting that information, right? Like there's like, there's been many times where like, you know, our, our good friend, Jordan shallow, we'll put something out and it will sound like it's countering something that we're talking about. It's like, well, no, that he's, he's coming from a different philosophy of lifting. It's not necessarily that it's right or wrong or my way is right. His way is wrong. It's just that depending on your pursuit and your way of training, it can determine how that piece of content is, is interpreted. And so the average person sometimes doesn't understand how to do that. It turns into like, oh, well, he says this. Well, it's like, okay, yeah, that, that's true, but this is also true. Speaking of which, his certification is one of the only ones, there's very few certifications that really tackle workout programming in a way where I'm impressed. To his physiological level. Yeah, like he, he really, his workout programming is a lot of nuance. There's, you know, depending on who you're working with and the client and, you know, that really it could, it could vary so greatly on how you would program a workout. And there's so many moving parts. His, his is one of the better ones where you look at it. Actually, I would say one of the best ones where you look at how they taught, they teach programming, like how to construct effective workouts. They do a really good job. He's one of the only ones I know too, that has sort of a living, breathing course that they constantly change based on current research. And he's always addressing that with these group calls and, you know, informing all the coaches and he keeps it like super, super current. Like a lot of these other certifications are kind of dinosaur these days. Well, there's a reason why he's been accepted into these circles like the NFL and the NBA. Like, I mean, he's, every time I look up, he's at another like NBA camp, NFL camp, working with some pro athlete. Like, I mean, he's definitely, he's, he's moving around in very respected circles like that, that you can't just anybody can get into. He's gonna be teaching us his cert here live, right? What's the date that he's doing it? It's in March, I think it, yeah. Middle of March. Middle. Here in our, in our gym. He's teaching it live. Yes, yes. That's correct. And I'm getting a better URL put together here right now. Is the URL sucks? We're gonna help him out. There's like five dashes and, you know. Yeah, so we're gonna, we're gonna change the URL to minepumpl1.com. Okay. And I believe it's the 15th, 16th and 17th if I'm not mistaken. First 10 people that sign up have access to watch a live show. Correct. Recording for us. And then the day before, which is Friday, is you can come down and do a meet and greet with us. Is that right? Well, that's correct. So the meet and greets on Friday and the live show is on Friday, Friday morning. Got it, okay. And then the next day, next two days are the actual certification. Look at Sal and you didn't make the cut, huh? Yep, nope. What's up with the picture? We don't want two videos. Oh, there we are. Sorry. Yeah, dude. Man, I mean, finally got a smart. We're just out of adjusting. Hey, I think they've done a lot of testing. When I see pictures like this. Hey, wouldn't that be funny? Do any of our partners split test our stuff? See who does better? Whose picture? Yeah, yeah. Well, you guys make every thumbnail. I'm like, every like 50 thumbnails. I'm like, oh, cool. We'll be more handsome. Thanks, production team. I appreciate your love. I don't know how fucking beat face gets it all the time. I get it, you know what I'm saying? I talk a lot, that's what it is. I just say a lot of stuff. All right, back to the show. Speaking of my face, when I see these old pictures here of us, did I walk through like an accelerated aging portal at some point? I saw a video of myself. So Jessica filmed me. I had these, my son has these dinosaur toys. And my daughter, my 15-month-old daughter, my three-year-old son are on my lap and I'm playing with the dinosaurs. And she filmed me. It's a cute video, right? So then she sends it to me, sends it to the family. I'm looking at it. I'm like, I look like, I look like a nono. I look like a grandfather. I'm gonna click with these great kids. Oh, no. Hey, when does that happen to us, dude? That'll be a shot, right? When someone asks you, he's like, oh, is that your grandchild? Oh, come on, dude. That's gonna be a shot. I've been able to read right. Courtney's like, you know, some bits of like inclination. Oh, wow, maybe another kid, like, you're gonna be a grandma. Let's focus on that. Wait, is she bringing that up? Or is she bringing that up every once in a while? I mean, no, just like maybe. Don't get me excited. No, no, no. It's not happening. It's not a thing. Don't let me put this down. Bless the god. Shut it down. Would you even consider that right now? We're at how far along you are right now? Yeah, I feel like you've crossed over. Do you remember at that what age they were when you're like, there's no turning back now, there's no more? Yeah, it was probably. Probably five, right? Four or five. Whenever it was two. No. That's it. Yeah, we're man to man. So much work. Because so we organized, Jessica and I organized our week now to where one or two days a week. So her and I will have a day where we're out, like I'm not working, but I'm out or one day where she's just off. Right. So last week, it was Thursday. So Thursday, it was me and the kids all day. Me and the little ones all day long. And I tell you what, man, I have so much respect for stay at home parents. No way in hell would I do that. No, it is so demanding and just nonstop. And my kids are everywhere. And all you do is feed them and clean up after them. That's basically it. 90% of the time is feeding them and cleaning up after them. Now, have you guys, have you guys got to a place where you guys actually have to schedule sex? Or can you, can it, can it, okay. It happens organically still for you. I feel like that's on the calendar. That's when it gets rough, right? Who, I just saw one of our like friends that we know in the pot. Is it, was it Ben? That viral, was it? Ben, you know, that's Ben, dude. He's probably. It was Ben, huh? It's so Ben. That's such a Ben thing. You have different titles. Yeah, I feel like, well, I mean, he was presenting it like it's like a, like it's a good thing where I feel like, if like, I feel like Katrina and I'd have a talk like, hey, if we get to the point where we had to schedule sex, like did we need therapy? We can also make it fun if it's scheduled. Think about that. Imagine if you looked at your calendar right now and you're like four o'clock. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? And then you start, you know, get ready for it. No, no, no. You like that? I mean, it doesn't mean that there's not times where like current I are like, hey, Friday we're going off to whatever and someone's watching the kid. And so obviously I know what's going to happen. But you don't say it. Yeah. Well, and then there's also plenty of times leading up to that where it happens. So just, I, if it got to a point in our relationship where I felt I needed a calendar sex, I feel like there's more going on in the relationship than just fucking busy. You know what though? Here's what trips me out. Like my grandparents or my parents, my dad, my dad grew up, let's see, how many siblings? Six siblings in, in like two bedrooms. After three kids, where does parents have sex? How did they find a way to have sex to have the other three kids? I don't know. How did that happen? My grandfather lived- With everybody in the room. My grandfather lived in a cement room about as big as this with eight siblings. Apparently he only needs a sleep bag. And a donkey in the same room. How does parents keep having kids? That's what I want to know. They go around the corner, come back, you know? So it works. Yeah, I guess. That's my whole point. Anyway, I was going to ask you, Adam, when you were like bodybuilding like tip top, like just jacked, right? Yeah, okay. What percentage of comments in the gym came from men? And what percentage of comments came from women? The same amount when I drive a cool car. Yes, it's all dudes. I think it's one of the funniest things ever is that the stuff that men do- Women don't give a shit. To get attention from women? Tracks of their dudes. It only attracts other dudes. No chick has ever walked up to me in the best shape of my life. I tell you what, the only time I got attention like that was Las Vegas after the show and we're out on the pool. That's why you remember it. That's right, it's the most memorable day of my life because for the first time in my life, all that work I'd put in, finally, oh look, so a bunch of women finally paid attention to notice, all the other times in the gym has always been a man walking up to me and saying, oh man, nice, whatever. You know what I'm saying, making compliments. It happened to me today. I walked up to me. He's like, so I can put my headphones down. He's like, your shoulder's round, bro. Like fist bump. You should be like, you want to feel it? No, no, no. I mean, I like to compliment, but I'm also like, okay. What is it for, so what do women do that's the same? Is there something on the woman's side that she does to get men's attention, but it only gets other women's attention? Was it work on the reverse? Probably shoes and stuff like that. I understand. Well, I just heard this recently that a lot of plastic surgery is really done, discouraged by their partners. Yeah. So okay, that's good. It's done for women. I believe that. Yeah. I believe that, I believe that for sure. Like I meant, in fact, I had a girlfriend one time where she, this was back, this was before the limp injections, things became like a real popular thing where everybody was doing it. It was like kind of new. This was like 15 years ago, right? So, and she really wanted to get done. I'm like, why? You have great lips. There's no reason, why would you do that? And she's, and we actually kind of got into it about it. And I'm like, don't do that. And I was gone for vacation for a week. I came back and she had done that. So, and like, if it was for me, like she wouldn't have done that, but it obviously wasn't for me. It was obviously for the attention. That's a good point. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. I bet a big percentage of it is that is for, is more, which is the same thing for men, right? You're lifting and you're not really getting the attention of women. You're competing with other men. Totally. So it's like the same thing. 100%. It's like that meme. What's that meme where there's a guy and he's like, Hey, what machine in here can I use that will get the most attention for women? And then the guy points to the ATM. ATM, yeah. That's the one. Every time. That's the one. Dude, I almost, so check this out. I anticipated an altercation today too at the gym. So I'm working out. What? I'll tell you. So I'm lifting and the way the parking lot is situated. So I go to UFC Fit every once in a while, right? Good gym. My buddy Don Cardona VP. Do you see him when you go in there? No, because he's too early. Yeah, it's early, but great, great gym. It's like great equipment, right? Bodybuilding equipment. They have great racks for powerlifting and weightlifting. We had their staff in here for a bit. We did. We did when we did our launch of our trainer course. So anyway, I'm working out and there's a, there's a front parking spot. And then there's like this kind of like weird angled, it's not really a parking spot. It's just like extra space. You ever seen those? Yeah. Where you could probably park a motorcycle in there or whatever. So I parked my car. I go in a workout. In the normal spot, right? I come out and some dude literally right, there's no way I could squeeze into my car. So I'm done with my workout. I'm like, am I gonna, I'm gonna have to go inside and page someone to come out. It's that bad? It was so, I could, there's no way I could open my car. Somebody did that to me recently too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were at a school and I thought it was like, I don't know, because there was, I mean, I drove the nicer car and it was like, it was just weird. They were literally right, like almost like scratching the paint close. And I'm like, who does that? That's on purpose. Yeah, it's gotta be on purpose. It felt deliberate. So I anticipate an altercation because you feel like this guy did that on purpose because I kind of parked over a little bit knowing that's not a parking spot. So I'm just gonna give myself a little more room for the other car. So I'm like, I bet you this guy thought he was being, like he saw me, thought I was a dick. So he, whatever. So I'm like, oh man, it's gonna be an altercation. So I go inside, I tell the girl, can you please page the owner of the black, whatever, whatever. She pages it and to my delight, it's the old, there's this old guy that works out every morning. Oh no. And he's in 70s, right? And he's just old kind of crusty. You're gonna fight a 70 year old guy? No, but I love it, right? I'll win for sure. We're a loose man. No fear. Oh, what a fuck. You're like, I got this. I got this. No, he comes out, he's pissed off. Oh really? I'm like, hey, I don't think that's a parking spot. He's like, I parked there every morning. And he's an old guy. He's always told me what to do. And I respect him because I see him working out. He works out hard. He's an old dude. Where's the slight sweater when he works out? Hey, listen, my apologies, sir. I apologize. I'm so I'm giving him respect, you know? So I moved out of the way. It's just funny to see the old guy. Well, you're such a nice guy. That's nice. Why a 70 year old man? What am I gonna do? Yeah, fight him. What's the cutoff, bro? Shobu's Bob. Yeah, what's the cutoff? I mean, you're not a spring chicken anymore. Where's the cutoff of fighting like you do? Because, okay, obviously you fight a 57 year old guy. What I? What? Come on, a couple of years older than you? That's a couple. That's a lot. But I feel like if you're at the gym, it's usually just like a peacocking thing where you end up like bumping chests. You know, you move your car. Well, I don't know. So UFC gym, it could be a MMA guy. I want to know the cutoff. There's got to be a, have you thought about this? You almost got to find this. I feel like they look really old and I'm not going to do anything. If you just look. Yeah, if I look at, he was like an old, like I've seen him work out. I feel like Jess would probably fight the oldest guy. Me? He has no feeling. Yeah, he has no. I feel like Jess would beat a guy with a walker if he had a chance to. I'm not violent like that, you guys. Relax. Kick the walker out. I mean, I'll say things. You know, I'll definitely say things. No, I mean, if it's an, I always show a lot. I was raised that way. When they're a lot older than you, you just, you get up, you give them your chair, you say you're sorry. A decade? You call them. A decade? 55? If they're fit. Yeah, then we'll throw them down. But if they're like old, like a decrepit, no. Yeah. I feel like there's gotta be like a point where you don't do that, but then it's acceptable. And then what happens if he engages you like that? And he's. That old guy doing that? I would have apologized to him. Sorry, sir. Yeah, who cares? He must have looked really old then. Yeah, he did. But, you know, he's in there every morning working out. I was so happy that it was him. Cause I'm like, this is gonna be some meat heads gonna walk out. It's gonna be a problem. But it wasn't. Thankfully, it was all good anyway. Hey, so this weekend I took my, my 14 year old daughter shooting for the first time. I saw that. The video you sent, I did get a little nervous cause she like, look back to look at to look if you're recording her. She's drags the gun across the thing. Whoa, dude. Does she enjoy it? And she had a good time. Fearless. Fearless. I show her how to do it. It's how you load it to keep your finger off it. Like empowering for him, dude. Yeah. So it's a revolver. It's got a little bit of a kick, but she, she was up there and she's got aimed, dude. So, so you know how you can, when you go to the range, you can get different targets. You can pay for different kinds of targets. So she wanted to get the ones that have pictures of like, like, like, you know, bad guys all. Okay. I thought it was Donald Trump. That's what it looked like. Bro, they, they haven't changed you since 1985. All of them look like. So just some eighties. The same guy. Bro, there's one guy, he's holding a gun, but he's got like big shoulder plaid, you know, jacket on or whatever. So you know, this is from the eighties. Yeah. But she's shooting him and then she goes, look, I watch this. I'm gonna shoot him in his, in his junk. And she hit him, right? Right in the dick. Just laced her down, dude. I'm like, I don't gotta worry about her at all. I got emotional on the inside. Oh, that's my girl. I'm so proud. I'm so proud. I'm so proud. But we, she, you know, we hit the targets and then we're gonna, she's gonna put them up in her room. It's like a decoration. Oh God. That's kind of cool, right? That is cool. Big boys come over. That's kind of cool right there. I see that. Exactly. That's, I like that idea. 100%. And he's got three models. Yeah, I like that. I like that, I like that. I just have like shells lined up on her. That's a great strategy right there. Hey, speaking of Trump, did you see his sneakers? No, what? You didn't see this? No. Oh, Doug pulled up. Pull up the new Trump shoes. Wait, he has them or someone else? No, he dropped, he dropped a collaboration. Those two, what company? I want to see, I want to see how, oh, I think it's his own line, not a collaboration. Sorry. Oh my God. You see him? Yeah. Pull him off the guys. Like shoes? I mean, oh, he did the, didn't he do the trading card thing too? You got the one down. He's even hanging out with the card. Not too much. Oh, they're gold. You know, those are gonna be instantly worth a lot of money. So that's why I'm really curious to see how well they did as far as, can you find me some, Andrew, find me some stats on like, what? I want to see a close-up of this. Trump shoes. Wow. Yeah, they're gold and they have like, kind of like American flag on the heel. Oh, there we are. There you go. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a lot right there. You know what? Can I just tell you something right now? I mean, that's like, you wear that, I thought the red make America great again hat was like a statement like that. It's about as loud as it gets. Do you know why he's so smart? Do you know why he's so smart? There's so many influencers. You're gonna buy that. Do you know who's gonna wear those? Who do you think's gonna wear those? Like everybody on YouTube. He's got more pull among the, he's got more pull than almost any president ever seen with the hip hop community, with the community that, you know, or like that, those shoes right there are gonna be all over influencers. You think so? I bet you. Sold out. They already sold out. Sold out. 400 bucks. For a pair? For a pair. I mean, that's not too crazy. Only a thousand pairs. Oh, he only did a thousand pairs. Yeah. You know, you're gonna sell one of those for double nice. Well, no, for sure. I didn't know he did a limited run. That was pretty smart. Oh, that's interesting. Because those will resell for more. Oh, he's got more. He's got the, he's got red ones. He's got white ones. Wait, what's that? Perfume? He's got cologne. Okay, so this was always what my, my thought when he first ran for president was always this, a business play. Yeah, it was like, he's gonna use this as a way to parlay and to make it himself. Merchandising everything now. No kidding. I'll buy his hairspray. It works. You know what I mean? That's good. I switch TV down here now. Wow. Yeah, I would. That's gotta be a smart, that's a pretty smart strategy. So I'm assuming all the proceeds go to his campaign then. Oh, that's a good question. I didn't, I don't know the whole, like what the, I don't know the whole strategy of what he's doing right now. I just, I thought, again, I thought like his original. Well, look, his hat is, is the hat that he did is, which when I, when he first came out with it's so basic, right? But it's one of the most like recognizable political pieces of apparel ever. Ever. Yeah. They've never, no one's ever successful. That and the Obama shirt. The Obama shirt is one of the most famous shirts ever that, that with a, and you've now seen both of those like red down a thousand times now, right? That's how you know it's like gotten so popular is that how many people have red done that the color way of the red, red, white writing. Did you guys see, maybe you've seen, you saw this Justin. So you know the WEF, right? The World Economic Forum, AKA Satan. Anyway, they came out, this was released. So you know, in China, they have a social credit score. So for people who don't know, a social credit score in China, they will rank everything that you do that's pro, what the government thinks is a good thing, or anti what they, you know, what they think is a good thing. In other words, if you do bad stuff, which could be anything from a political post, liking a post, saying something, going to the wrong restaurant, hanging out with people who are not liked by the government who have a low score, all the stuff. And then based off the score in China, you can, they can prevent you from flying, they can prevent you from pulling money out of the bank, you know, renting a car, buying things. Don't they hit you too, for like, if I have a friend who's got like a low score with that too? I'll get your score. In fact, their phones will alert. My phone will beep when I'm near someone that has a low score, and I have to move away from them. Otherwise my score will go down. This is how their score, anyway. So people here in the US are like, oh my God, that's dystopian. That would be terrible if we ever did something like that here. Well, they are talking about, and I'll read to you, they're talking about a social ESG score. Oh, wow. Social ESG score, yeah. So ESG is, you know, this is their credit score, right? Like, and I'll read to you what it says here. So they're comparing it to a personal credit score. But this is about understanding a person's risk when it comes to other decisions that they make. So companies are of the view that a person who is not dedicated to corporate sustainability cannot be entrusted with a task. So I'll read to you what it says here. A personal ESG score works like a credit score, but it differs fundamentally because it rates an individual's ESG risk. So that's what, what is that equity? What does ESG stand for? Equity, social, and then, I forget what else, yeah. Environmental, social, and governance. There it is. So if you, you know, don't do the right thing or whatever, your social ESG score will get hammered. And then they're trying to find a way to get this, like companies to have to react to this. So they're trying to pressure like your Facebooks and your Twitter. Well, did you see what Disney just recently with Elon Musk? No, that was crazy. That was all ESG type stuff, wasn't it? They leaked out, I guess, some emails on their way of accomplishing diversity and stuff like that. It's very... I sent it to Sal, but I don't think I sent it to the group. But did you see that, Justin? No, I didn't see that. I don't remember all over that type of stuff. Yeah, I know. So, you know, Jon Stewart's back on a daily show for like one day a week. And he's kind of, you know, he's bringing it back, trying to bring some levity to the whole we're going back into this election cycle and like he's making fun of both sides and like, you know, everybody's... So he had a show, I guess, on Apple that they ran a few pilots and they pulled it. And they're like, why do you pull it? And I guess because of the ties between like China and they were talking about AI in China, one of his like upcoming episodes and like basically got the crackdown. Like they got a message to handle this because it wasn't going to put them in a good light. So like they basically got pressured to drop his series from Apple, which is crazy. That they have that kind of leverage, you know? But they do a lot of business obviously in China. He did a good job. His political humor was like brilliant back in the day. Whether you agree with him or not, he did it in such a way that I thought was really smart. Yeah, it was really, really smart. I never really followed him that much. Really? He's really good. He does a good job of... I don't agree with a lot of his takes, but I like the way he presents them. He does it in a way where... And I can appreciate that. I mean, who would you compare? Is he Bill Maher-esque? Bill Maher's way more crass, way more. But Bill Maher also, you know, I'll appreciate some of the stuff he says because he seems to be pretty consistent and somewhat balanced. It doesn't seem like he's all... Like he'll change his tune just because he's supposed to type of deal? Yeah, he's definitely, I mean, satire. And he's pretty good at like just taking the news and putting kind of a funny take on it. But, you know, he obviously has his own bias that it comes through a bit. But yeah, it's... I remember when we used to think that the decentralized Internet would make everybody so much more free, less controlled, but they're using it now to really find ways of controlling people, especially with like facial recognition technology and all that stuff. It's wild. I mean, it's concerning, right? I mean, I can't believe more people aren't concerned about this whole thing. It's a credit score. It's like, dude, it's a real possibility. Think about it this way. You try to get a loan. You try to buy something. Your credit score pops up. And that is to let lenders know. I mean, it's already kind of crazy when you do that. Right. That kind of makes sense, okay? But your credit score doesn't follow you to like you're gonna get on a dating site or you're gonna meet someone or... Yeah, but it's... You're gonna post on social media. It's so fucked up how they decide like what you're gonna get hit like for or like how bad like... It can definitely be messed up. Oh, yeah. It's like, no, I'm not a fan of like how we even structured that. Like it makes sense to, if you're gonna go to other creditors that you should have some sort of tracking of your history, but it's an arbitrary number that's bullshit. Like one of the things that killed me was when I short sold my first house when I was 20-something years old. Like that fucked me for like seven years. I had never in my entire life, right? So I had cards and credit from very early age. Just one hit. One hit. And it was a short sell. Like something that I decided to do. What did your credit score go down? Oh, bro, I was a 715. It moved me all the way down to 400 and something. Wow. And then... One thing. And then why it's such bullshit is that once it hits you like that, then nobody wants to touch you. And so the only way to rebuild your credit is to get more credit and prove you can... I could give you... Bro, there was a point, okay? Years later, I don't know how many years later this was. I wanna say it's like four or five years later, where I had always banked with Bank of America. I had over $100,000 in this account. And I couldn't get a prepaid credit card for $500 from Bank of America who I... Yes. That's crazy. It was, I got denied. That's how fucked up it is. It's like one thing that had happened and all the things that I had done. So now take that to the millionth degree with this social credit score. That's why it's crazy. It's crazy that people think it would be an okay idea. Do you guys, like on Venmo, you know how you can do like a public transact? Like you could show like what you're buying and all like, I'm so uncomfortable with that. I'm always like private, but some people like, you know, they take full advantage of that and kind of, I don't know if it's like bragging or why that feature is even in there, but I heard one of the parents actually talking about it the other day and I was laughing because, you know, this guy realized that like people were following his transactions. And so he started to like, you know, buy fake, like really inappropriate stuff, like mass and like, you know, like, like a lot of sexual things and like, you know, to create this like really weird, bizarre persona in there and like. I don't know what the point of, I don't even know. Why did they do that? So, so yeah, like my Venmo, I have private, right? So nobody can see. But why would someone want it to be public? But most, it's, the default is public. Anybody can follow you? Yeah, they see your transactions. It's structured like social media in the sense of like, if I do a Venmo transaction to you, do you have Venmo or no? No. Oh, you don't even have it. Okay, so if you have like a Venmo, the same way I would look you up to send you money is just like on Instagram, you'd have an at Sal de Stefano. And then I would just send that money there. Yeah, it's a social network. Yes, literally why? Yeah, I mean, so it's kind of, but nobody uses it like that. As far as I know, but maybe that's maybe I'm being a boomer right now. Like maybe it is like this super popular. It makes the people are into it. I'm like, again, that's why I bring it up because I'm trying to find out. Like what's the hook there? Like why are people... Are you trying to flex or something? Yeah, right? I don't know. I mean, Andrew, you're way younger than we are. Is that like a thing? Like do you guys like... It's just a social network thing. But I mean, do you use it like that? No. Like yeah, you don't find yourself like scrolling through people's Venmo's, do you? No, not at all. I mean, you remember, so in China they have, I forget the name of the platform, but it's like PayPal meets Instagram meets like all... Yeah, I remember that. Isn't that what originally what Elon's plan for Twitter was, was to make it this like, especially with this... Is it WeChat? Yeah, I think it's WeChat. It's called WeChat. Right, and now that is like Instagram meets Venmo meets all of it together. So then I guess it makes sense if you can create a platform like that where it's all in one. But and maybe Venmo thought that. Maybe when they did it, they thought, oh, maybe we could rival Instagram and Facebook and these other social platforms. But I've always thought that was interesting why people even want their stuff. Why you would want that public, unless it is like a flex. No idea. I don't know, I always do like, whenever I have to pay someone, I always make something up that's really like terrible. Well, what would you say? Oh yeah, yeah, I do always like, if I got to pay somebody on Venmo. Foot massage, maybe. Foot massage, maybe. I'm way worse. I just say something. If your shit's public and you fucking need me to pay you, you're fucked. The gas will get stuck. Really outrageous shit on there. Because just for that reason, because I think it's hilarious. I think it's like, okay, if you're going to put it public, then I'm going to put some weird shit on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh man, speaking of networks and stuff. So there's this article with viral. I cracked up when I saw this mom is suing this Christian school because they're banning her from taking her kids there. You guys want to guess why? Yeah, fans only. Yeah, dude. She tried. Well no, it's not just that. She drops them off in her, I don't know, she drives an Escalade and on the back of it is her link. Her big ass link on the back window. Interesting. And then she's suing them, like what do you think was going to happen? Well, it's a private school. Yeah. They have the right to say no, right? They do, but what do you think is going to happen? You pose nude on a site, you drop your kids off. What do you think about that? Like I've thought about that before, like some of these, I mean, we obviously know a lot of people. I just feel bad for the kids. Well, I know, so what do you think? I mean, that's going to be like the big thing that kids in high school get bullied of like your mom who's on the road. You know, it's happening, dude. Oh, yeah. Oh, a hundred. I mean, if it's not already a popular thing that happening now, it will be because the only fans is really only blown up in the last five years. Yeah. So give it some time in the next, you know, 10 years when like so many people have been doing it for a long time, like in your and I can only imagine the kid going to school. Full your mom. I know, I know. And then they go into full description and be like, oh. Plus it doesn't go away, it's digital. Yeah. You know, it's not like a magazine where it's like, okay, let's wait a few years and the things out of circulation. There it is right there. Oh, it said, was that Durango? Yeah. That's her, that's her thing right there. Yeah, only fans. Yeah. Yeah. Piper fawns. Of course they're going to. Small, it's pretty deliberate. Of course. Now, you know what's funny about this? Do we ever handle so we can check? Yeah, we do. I wonder if she's suing them. We're going to help her out. I wonder if she's suing them so that this becomes an article so that she gets more. I tell you what. I bet you she got a shit ton of it. Brilliant. It is. What did I just say? I mean, what's her handle? I mean, if that's her play, like smart business woman, like if that like if she knows like the lawsuit is going to go nowhere, but it's going to make the news because she's doing that. Is she that smart? That's like really, that's like 3D chess. That's 3D chess. If she's like, I know I'm not going to win this, but I'm going to make a big fuss about it because it's going to give me all this shit. That's her right there. Right here. That's that. That really looks like somebody's mom. Not the most flattering photo I've ever taken. Justin, you're a good guy. Come on, dude. Justin just said that literally looks like somebody's mom. It is. I know, but it's not like, you know, how many followers does she have? Can we, can you see that on there? Like, you see how many likes, but can you see there's only fans that you see followers and stuff like that or no? Hey, Doug, you're subscribed. I, it says, welcome back. My dark little secret here. Dougie. Welcome back, Dougie. I appreciate all the Amazon gifts. Fucking Doug. Yes. Fucking Doug. Oh my God. Hell with the Amazon there. I saw a stat. So here's the worst part about it because here's the thing. If your mom's on only fans and she's balling, you know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, it sucks. It's embarrassing. But it's like, yeah, mom's balling. So that's, I get to drive a Porsche to school. So whatever. Yeah. But I think the percentage of women that actually make good money. Tiny. It's so tiny, tiny, tiny. Yes. Tiny. It's like 95% make hardly anything. Oh my God. I heard a story. I read another story. So if I feel like if I'm going to, if I'm a mom and I'm going to make the move to, if I'm going to commit to doing something like that, it was like the sleeve tattoo for me. Like I waited until I was like. I'm never working for something like that. I'm never working for something like that. You're going to be a chef for a self-employed. Bro, like 100%. Like I, oh, I wanted a sleeve tattoo when I was like 17 years old. And I was like, I better cover my ass first. But I won't need to get a job somewhere. Obviously back then it's different now, right? It's more accepted. But I literally had that same thought process of like, wait, I need to make sure that I'm good. Dude, I saw another article. This, this woman had an only fans and she, she had this top, like, I don't, what do they call them? Top fan? I don't know. This guy would talk to her daily. I don't know. I don't know. You get the special star, I've heard. No, because I know, I know because I know with prostitutes, it's called a, what do they call them? John. John, okay. So I don't know if, anyway, so this, this woman kept having this, this, this man would talk to her every day, give her money every single day, whatever. She, he would say, he said a couple of things to her that made her kind of her hair stand on end. And she's like, what? So she did a little research. It was her stepfather. She found out her actual stepfather. I saw that. Was contacting her and watching her and commenting and donating to her. Yeah, disgusting. Just based off of, like, top porn videos. You know, that's, that's happening all the time. It's like, it's always white. Yeah. Stepmom, your stepmom, stepdad, step, something that's always like a top, a top video or what like that. That's disgusting. You see a lot of crossover too between that, that going on where you see this, uh, on like, um, on Pornhub, where there is their only fans. Don't act like you don't know. I haven't been on for a long time. I told you. Why am I uncomfortable? No, bro, it's been a while. Oh, has it really been a long time? Long time. Really? Yeah. Wow. It's been a long time. I mean, I never was. So it's like, not a big deal to me to like, to not, to not go without that. But now do you know, do you know very many people that like, that's a, like a major thing or is that something like that nobody ever shares? Like nobody talks about that. It's a big problem. It's a big problem. Well, it's massive. Remember when we looked up the viewer, the views on it is like, Well, no, just do my research on how it affects the brain, how it affects relationships, how it affects society. It, we are literally dealing with, so it's worse than a drug because it is also modifying and dealing with a innate human driver. So you, you see how bad food is, right? How bad it's, how much obesity is spread and it's like a majority of people because this, you know, these hyper palatable foods are also dealing with an innate driver. Cocaine is not dealing with an innate driver. Alcohol isn't dealing with an innate driver. Heroin isn't dealing with an innate driver. Pornography is dealing with an innate human, you know, something that drives us as humans. So the data on it coming back is just, it's insane. I never thought it was like, like terrible. But I started, as I started doing research, I was like, this is, this is not good. Interesting that you would compare it to drugs and being worse. The way that it affects the brain, when they do brain scans, it affects behaviors. I mean, isn't it drugs are like that, though, too? They are, but they're, but it's, if you look at the data again on how it affects just other behaviors. I mean, where I would, the argument I would make that it's as bad or worse is that it like food, it's accepted, right? So there's this, that's the other side of it. So the acceptance around it is like, because you're not, you don't, you don't, you don't log into a porn site and go like, oh, I'm doing a line of coke right now. You don't think like that. Just like when you go to the refrigerator and for the third time in a row, in an hour, you don't go like, oh, I'm doing a line. You just think you're eating food, no big deal. Or you go numb to it and you don't think about it. You think you justify that it's, it's food and you need it. I feel like that's kind of where it was. No, and it's got the classic, like, taller, build up a tolerance, need new novelty for more stimulation, withdrawal. It's all classic drug symptoms. Pretty cool. I'm trying to find an expert to come on the show and talk about it. Yeah, you've talked about, I think that would actually be a really interesting conversation. It'd be an interesting conversation just because I, you know, whenever we bring it up, like I don't, we don't talk about this really on the show. We all, I always get lots of DMs afterwards of young men that struggle with it. Big time. Yeah. We didn't grow up with it. Every time we talk about it. So here's the deal. We didn't grow up with it. So it didn't mold and model our brains like it is to these young kids. These young kids are exposed to it at 10, 11. It's just because it was hard to get. It was very hard. Well, and imagine too, like obviously we're not the only person that's talked about it in a negative light. When it was new, like nobody was probably talking about that at all. It was just like, you know, it's just getting for a kid, a young man getting all that access. It's like just dumping a bunch of candy in his lap and be like, hey, don't worry, there's going to be any consequences to this at all. And it's also, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of direction we go with that. But I want to have an expert on the show to really break down the research. You know, where you can look, there was a, there was a documentary. I bet you could find somebody that if I, if you remember that documentary that was not that long ago, I forget it was all, it was all on the, I think the big lawsuit that happened with porn hub. Oh, you guys talked about it. Right. Yeah, yeah, look up that because there, I do believe they had experts. There's a woman who wrote the book, I think it's called Dopamine, Dopamine Nation. Is that it? Look that up, Doug. I'm trying, I'm trying to see if I can get her on because she's local and she's a professor. Money shot. That's what it was. I bet. Look at Dopamine Nation, Doug. If that's a book, I don't know, I might be wrong here. But there's a professor, a researcher who's who I've heard and I'd like to get there. Yeah, there's a book by Anna Lem. Oh, I've seen that before. Dopamine Nation, correct. Yeah. Is that what that is? I've seen that book. I've seen people reading that book before. It's not just about porn. Okay, it's about, it's how the modern life is so driven and geared towards dopamine and how it's affecting us. So I, okay, so I bet this book gets into this, I think which is up there, which is just as scary is the way we consume content. Yep. Because again, back to the like food point, like nobody, nobody goes on TikTok, right? And go like, oh, this is so damaging. It's like, maybe you go like, oh, man, it's a guilty pleasure or whatever that you do. But we've, we're slowly training this generation coming up to not be able to sit and listen to an hour conversation or watch a movie. Endless scroll. The guy who like created that has like crazy remorse over it because of the effects psychologically, like where we're at as a result. Yeah. Watch a bunch of 14-year-olds hang out with each other. They'll hang out with each other and then get on the phones. Yeah. It's wild. I find it with us. There's no ending to things. The most embarrassing thing I ever catch any of us do is when we go out to lunch together and then. And then we end up on our phones. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like, I know. And yeah, I put my phone upside down and I put it like out in front because I it's weird. Yeah. And we're all old dudes who grew up with it. You know, it's funny. I somebody made a comment to me one time when I was doing that, like that I was trying to hide something and I thought, oh, that's really interesting that you you interpret that. Oh, turn your phone upside down. Yes. No, it's because it's more alluring. Yes. Because you can see an alert or light up or something like that. And I'm like, yeah, no, that's not because I'm trying to find for myself. It was like, well, I'm trying to hide is my own alerts telling me. And I said because it's it's already hard enough, you know, if I feel it, that's why I take it out my pocket and then put it out and then turn it over so I can't you know, my wife does now. She literally turns her phone off and she'll tell me I'm turning my phone off so I know I can't get a holder and she puts it in a drawer and she wrote her whole schedule now in a paper planner. And she's like, if I don't turn it off, I end up popping on it. And it's like huge improvement to her quality of life doing that. I didn't know that's what that book that makes me read that book. So, hey, speaking of of studies and trials, I looked into remember how I talked about this while ago, how Caldera did a clinical trial on their products and like how it affected people's skin. Yeah, it was it was like 90 percent of men said that it was one of the best so I didn't realize just how good the trial was. I'll pull it up to you. This was most skin care trials. I don't know if you guys know this or not are like, you know, 10 people for 30 days or whatever. They did a US clinical trial. They did it with with a US clinical research firm. It was an eight week study, not four week. And they did it with 53 male volunteers, 37 to 64. And it was a mix of ethnicity, skin tones, facial hair types. It was dry skin, normal skin, oily skin. And yes, 90 plus percent of people noticed improvements in fine lines and wrinkles, elasticity, skin health. They have a before and after on their page. You guys got to see what it looks like. And this is after eight weeks of using their products. And but they funded a study like that's a how much you factor in that most dudes like have done zero. Yeah, right. Absolute zero. And then all of a sudden they just try a little bit. Yeah. We had like the client who never worked out with us and they're doing some terrible make an impact on me. We have. I'll be in that. We had 50 dudes wash their face. Amazing results. Look at this crazy. I can't believe this happened. So I didn't know that's interesting. Like other skin care health skin care products like their crap studies, like five people, six people and they'll they'll pick it. Yeah, it's not there. There's there's an actual. I imagine just like the supplement industry. There's the same type of pixie dusting, right? I bet in the skin care because the regulation is similar to right. Is there is there's nothing that's there. It's not heavily regulated. Is it or is it heavily? It's more regulated in the supplement industry, for sure. But skin care is not they they don't consider the skin. So weird to me. So something. So you can eat if you ate some of the chemical, like if you eat something, then you have to be very careful with what you put in your product. If you put on your skin, they don't consider like you absorbing it. As long as it doesn't cause it. I'm sure there's been a lot of real problems, like with people ordering from like Amazon and getting products that are like they basically have all these chemicals in it that, you know, cheapens the product in terms of making it more profitable. But it's like toxic to the skin. I read a story. Well, so to your point, though, that would make more sense that the supplements would be more regulated and the skin, the skin care would be less regulated. But it's the other way around. Skin care is more. Skin care is not regulated super well. No, no, it's not. I know it's not. I know it's not hard. It's not like medical. No, in fact, I read an article about a young man who was using his mom's skin care products. And so I'll make, let me back up a little. I just gave away the punchline, but he was developing gynecomastia. So he was developing breast tissue at the age of 17, which is a little old, right? If a young man develops any breast tissue from excess testosterone, typically has around 14, 15. Well, anyway, he's 17. It's happening. It keeps growing, goes to the doctor. They can't figure out what's going on. The doctor, very smart hormone specialist said, are you using any skin care or hair care products? He was using his mom's skin care products. That's what was causing the breast tissue. And would they have like estrogen in it or something like that? These chemicals are, they're Xenoestrogens. They attach to the estrogen receptor and the estrogen receptor expresses itself. Not like estrogen. Weekly, it's not a strong binding, but it's enough to cause problems. Especially if you have volume. So women might go fly under the radar because they don't notice, right? Or they could have period issues or mood issues or nothing, not see anything, but there's actually stuff happening behind the scenes. So you got to be careful. Hey, did you guys watch Love Is Blind? After I told you? No, no. So what's up with this? It's like my guilty part. Is it just terrible? I don't want to ruin it. So you guys go watch. Love Is Blind? Yes, that's stupid. A new one? It's so dumb, bro. They do them all the time. It's the worst. I've seen the other first season. Yeah, it's my. They fall in love, so they're so fake, right? It's three days. I think it's interesting. I think the idea of having to communicate for whatever amount of dates that they do it without seeing each other, I find that experiment interesting. But, and then I always think it's so funny, like when they actually interact, then they get together afterwards. And so there's a guy, I don't want to ruin it, but I feel like you're not going to watch it. So I'm going to share anyways. There's this guy who's down to like two girls and he's having such a hard time. And I think they're told, I think they're told that, hey, this experiment is supposed to be completely blind. And so I think they discourage the people from sharing anything physical. Could you ever notice that no one ever does that? Like you would think there'd be some super, superficial person. I don't think they're allowed to. Yeah, I don't think so either. So I think they like stay like really vague with that. And you're not supposed to ask questions like, how tall are you? What's your skin color? What ethnicity? I think I don't think- You would have stepped on a scale. Yeah, exactly. What would the number say? So I think they discourage that. But this one guy was really, this guy came down to the last two people and this girl, so it was like the right before, like him having to like really decide. Now physically were they comparable? No. Like one of them was like bad. She was like a dime. And then the other one was like, not so bad. Oh no. Yeah, and the funny part- So you're watching this movie? Yeah, yeah, so watching it. Pick door number two. And so in like just natural conversation they're talking about, I don't remember how it exactly came up but someone made a comment like, oh, do you have a doppelganger or does anybody says you look like someone? And she goes, she goes, oh yeah. And he's like, what? What, who? Like and he's like, who? You know, some people say I look like Megan Fox. Now was this the hot one? Yes. And you see the look on his face, like he gets all excited. And you were watching this, you're like, oh boy. If he did, he picked her. And you know that played a role. He was so torn between these two girls. Oh, that's it right there. That's the chick right there. No, you don't look like Megan Fox, bro. She's not bad. But I wanna see the other one. Well, no, the other one. Yes, show the, show the, can you see the one that he could have picked? Well, you're also okay. She's- That's also like a pick the angle. Yeah, not her entire physique either too. Yeah, so she's not nowhere near- I would feel so bad being on that show. And then you do the big reveal after you're like, yes, I picked this one. And then they see each other to not show on my face how I feel. You know what I mean? Like, ooh. You know what I mean? Yeah. Have they had one where they go to meet? Oh yeah. You can tell. Like that's like what, Katrina and I's favorite thing to do in this show, right? Like this is our, like you'll walk and be like, okay, what's the reaction of like, oh, he's gonna be picked. Like, and that was like the big joke between her. Like, oh boy, she's gonna be let down but she opens that door and doesn't see Megan Fox on the other side. Especially when the one, can you find me Andrew? The one that he was- This seems to be a terrible idea. The girl that he was supposed to pick. Do you know the name? I think it was Rachel. I think it was Rachel. Those dating show, the worst one I saw. I wanna know the ratings on those too because you know that you see that they've now done Brazil and Africa and like they're- They did spin off where they had them and basically like furrier outfits. And they sit there in these like costumes and try and get to know each other with these stupid like masks. Wasn't there one where they all had Down syndrome and they were dating each other? Oh yeah, that's Down for Love. That's the name of the show, bro. Why? Love on the Spectrum. That's another one with Austin. Oh, I thought that was, I thought that was, yeah, Love on the Spectrum. But I can't believe that they go there. There's one called Down with Love. Down with Love. Are you sure? No, that's the name of it. Because Love on the Spectrum is one that I've seen but I don't know. And it's endearing and it's like, it's great, but like, yeah, it was just like, at what point do you feel like it's exploitive at all? You know, and it's like, yeah. I mean, so I think all of it's interesting to me because this is just, welcome to the internet. Like this is what the internet has connected so many people and it's only a reflection of us. I would like to see it. All of this stuff is a reflection of us. Because we're watching it. Yes. That's the one, Down for Love. Oh, it is. Oh my God. I can't believe that. I'm sure it's like sweet and, you know, endearing. It is. I've actually, I think I've seen that. But still, the name though. Come on, guys. I know this. I would like to see one and maybe this exists. I would like to see one. It's a range marriage dating show where the parents meet and pick for each other. Well, they do the ones like, what's, yes, that's her. That's the girl he passed on. Oh, you messed up, dude. Hey, but then he's going to meet her. Remember when they all go to the pool? That's why I asked because it's coming up like this week. Oh, no. She's going to do the walk-by just. Oh, yeah. No, it's coming. So like, that's why I was asking because I know Sal, just go watch it. And I was like, did you guys, have you guys watched the new one or what? Because there's looking for some to watch. Watch it because I think Wednesday, whenever, when does this drop? This drops Wednesday. Is this Wednesday? Oh, this episode? Yeah. Yeah. This Friday. Okay. So it'll have drops. So I think this Wednesday is when they all, as right now he has no idea. I mean, he has no idea at least one trash TV show. I feel like everybody needs one percent. There's like, oh, my favorite one of all time was like Rock of Love with Brett Michael. Of course you like that. That show was ridiculous. Yeah, it was amazing. Hey, before we sign off here, I wanted to bring up Legion's new sleep product. They changed their Lunar product. Oh. So they changed it and added a couple of things. They added GABA, which have you guys ever used GABA before sleep? Yes. Yeah, I mean, very good. Oh, it puts me up. Well, it's in my, I believe that's in Mello. They might have GABA too. Yeah, it's theanine, GABA and the magnesium. Yeah. So GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. So it literally shuts and slows things down, relaxes the body. So they added that to it. And then what I like about it is he also has melatonin. He does, but he puts the right amount of melatonin. You know, every melatonin product puts so much freaking melatonin in it that not good. It'll, yeah, you'll get a negative feedback loop. Your body will stop making it. So this has 0.5 milligrams, which is what you're supposed to do. OK, so explain to me, not the three milligrams or five milligrams. Explain to me, because I've heard like, so would that be considered a micro dose of melatonin? That's considered the appropriate dose. If you look at the melatonin study, well, I've also heard this, though, I've also heard like, if you are like jet lag, really, that's different. You take a mega dose. Different. OK, very different. Explain the difference here. Because you're trying to reset your circadian rhythm. So you take a fat dose of melatonin. OK. When you're supplementing your own melatonin at night, you don't want a big, in fact, if you take a big dose, what you'll find, a lot of people find this either, A, they wake up groggy or they wake up in the middle of the night once the big dose of melatonin wears off. That's why I've never liked taking melatonin is because, I mean, it, I better not have anything to do in the morning. Yeah. That's how I feel. If I, if I have to fall asleep and then get up early or have to get up on a schedule, like it's not good. No, so he makes the, so the, and the one he made now with the Lunar is chewable tablets that taste, they taste really good. Is it me or does it seem like the move is like the gummies, chewable, like are we all like a lot of some of the companies are moving that direction seems like. I mean, I love, I like it as a guy who doesn't like taking pills already. Oh, yeah. It's I love the gummies and I think it helps with compliance. I probably I would love to see a study on that. I bet it does. Of course it does. If you like to taste the summing pills every day, it was brutal. Yeah. Yeah. I was on that 20 pill. I just don't like it. I can't jump in. The products that we, the products that we've had, the companies that the companies that have made us chewable products now, which we've had organifies, NEDs and now legions, that we crushed them, all of us. It's compliance, Doug's right. I think you look forward to the taste of it. And so you're more likely to take it, you remember it versus a pill, which is, doesn't taste like anything. Yeah. Yeah. I have a reward to it instead of just like, So you think it's that it's more like, I thought more of like, if I had to go take a couple of pills, it's like, oh, if you get a drink or a water with it, where if it's a chewable, I just throw it in my mouth. Well, that's the other thing too. It's probably more convenient. But anyway, good. It's a good product. So I can't wait to try it. Mike always has good products here for sure. Oh, shout out. We got a shout out, Vicky. So every Monday here, we've been doing this. How long has Vicky been coming here? How long time now? A couple of years. A couple of years. Two to three years. So every Monday she comes here and she makes us look nice. She does the hair and the face. Imagine how terrible we'd look if we didn't have her. Bad, terrible. So anyway, she has a barbershop in Morgan Hill. If you got to see her, she's amazing. She's also faded barbershop in, so it's fadedbarbershop.com, but it's faded barbershop in Morgan Hill. Go in there. It's at faded.barbershop.mh on Instagram. In Morgan Hill. You know, by the way, too, she loves it when people say, hi, there's actually a lot of people who have gone there because they've heard on the podcast and then they don't like people don't say anything. And then they find she finds out later down the road. Tell her you listen to the show. Yeah, say hi for sure. Element is an electrolyte powder that you put in your water. It's got no artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it has the right amount of sodium to propel you through your workouts. This stuff is great. Most electrolyte powders don't have nearly enough sodium for hardworking athletes or fitness fanatics or people who don't eat a lot of heavily processed foods. Again, it's naturally flavored, no sugar, and it tastes amazing. Go check them out. Get yourself a free sample box by going through our link. Go to drinkelemente.com forward slash mine pump and they'll give you a free sample pack with any order. All right. Back to the show. Our first caller is Bethany from Kentucky. Hi Bethany. How can we help you? Hi. Good morning. How are you? Hey guys. It's nice to see you guys. It's kind of exciting. You know, hear everybody. They're all nervous stuff and well, I of course got nervous. That's all right. Doug's nervous too. Yes. So anyway, just a little bit about my background here is that I'm sitting around 140 pounds. Been working out for the last 15 years or so. Started with Beachbody. Got it really into their programs. Added some running. So I've done probably about six half marathons. So I love, you know, doing some long distance running. I unfortunately had to stop that because I had some bad hip flexor and leg issues and just I think age in general. So then Beachbody I feel like was really good because it got me to love working out. I started doing a lot of cardio with that and then transitioned to more of the weight slash cardio stuff. Within the last year, I found another person, just an influencer. She was married to one of the trainers that I followed on Beachbody. And she is all about women getting strong, that everybody should lift. She preaches protein, you know, just right up your alley. So I did see some changes with my body comp, but I've recently started gaining a little bit of weight in my midsection. I am 47, full menopause. So I started taking some hormone replacements because that was just really throwing my body off. So I've been feeling a lot better with that. So within the last couple of weeks, I've really been focusing on protein intake. So I've been eating consistently about 130 calories. Some days it might be 120, 140, 50. And then so I've been lifting. Now I'm eating about 1,700 calories, but I mean when I first started, it was probably about 1,200 calories and then 1,500 and then I've just sort of been listening to you guys increase my calories and then I've been taking creatine for the last couple of months now. So my goal is to get rid of some of the fat that I've gained a little bit. So I do work out around five o'clock in the morning. I get myself ready to get my kids ready, go off to school, and then I don't eat until about 8 o'clock, 8 a.m. So my questions are, is not eating before the workout, causing me not to gain the muscle that I want? I do drink some on the weekends, not excessively and not every weekend, but is that causing me to gain some weight? And then I've also been looking at some of your programs and which ones would you suggest? Since this question was put in, I did buy the anabolic, I've been doing following that for the three days and I am currently just started phase three. Awesome. Are you doing anything in addition to MAPS anabolic? I've been trying to do some stretches. I've been trying to get my steps. I'm probably about 8,000 a day, sometimes more, but that's at least my goal. I'm trying to increase that slowly. Mostly walking. Are you walking as to how you're getting your steps? Yes. Good. You're doing a lot of the right stuff. You really are. Let me answer that question about the food part. Usually it doesn't make a difference. Now, if you're noticing kind of a stress response, cortisol elevated, sometimes functional medicine practitioners will recommend that a person either have something right when they wake up or in your case, you wake up so early, I do the same thing, I wake up at five. They would recommend having something small right after the workout just to get the cortisol to come down a little bit, but it's probably not making that big of a difference. Now, you said you're on hormone therapy. How long have you been on that? Probably about six months now. Okay. Has that made a big difference? Are you progesterone estrogen or just progesterone? Both estrogen and progesterone. I was getting hot flashes, spraying fog. Couldn't remember crap. I mean, it was terrible. So I started that hormone replacement and that has just helped make me feel so much better, normal anyway. You're doing a lot of the right stuff. So much so that I'd actually be concerned about adjusting too much without actually getting like a body fat test. I would love to, because you got, keep in mind a couple of things going on here, right? Like you've cut out all the running you used to do, so now you've switched out with walking. You're following a two to three day a week program. You've increased calories, also full blown menopause going on right now. So there's a lot of things that are going on and you're doing a lot of the right things. Yeah, you're doing what I would do with you if you would want to. Exactly. So what I would be worried about is to say, oh, just because maybe you feel like you're carrying a little bit of extra body fat without knowing for sure what happened to the body fat, you know, say a month ago to compare today, you might be right on the right track. So that would be really helpful and useful. You know what will help actually, Bethany? Let's see, when were you at 1200 calories? How long ago? Probably this time last year. So it's been about a year of slowly bumping up to about 1700 and then increasing protein? Yes. Okay. How do you feel now in comparison to before? Forget the body fat and all that stuff. Workout wise. Straight. Like how much has your strength gone up? Do you feel more energy? Is your sleep better? Like are all those signs pointing in one direction or another? Yes. I have been, I mean, I sleep well while I was, before the hormone therapy, I was waking up called a lot at night. So that's really helped a lot. I think the food increase has helped quite a bit. When I was at the 1200 calories, I was eating quite a bit. It's probably the same amount of protein, but I was just, the calories were just so low. You know, real low fat chicken breast and ground turkey and that kind of stuff. So I've switched some of that up. And you know, I'm close to 100 or 1700 calories now and really haven't gained any weight. But I do feel a lot better. Oh, yeah. I think you're right. Righted out. So what I would love to do, Bethany, for you, since you're at the phase three of anabolic is give you another program after this finishes that you can follow. What I would love is a body fat test now and another one in four weeks. Like that would be, that would. I would still want you to continue to slowly bump your calories. Yeah. I think I wouldn't want to change. I don't want to change anything until I have that last number because everything you're saying is telling me that you're actually doing really good. You're, you're moving in the right direction. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing great. And you said your body weight's 140. How tall are you? 5'3". And how's your strength with MAPs and Ebola? What were you working out with, with like like your squats and deadlifts and let's say phase one? Well, I was doing squats probably, which I'm real cautious about that because I've got, I've had some lower back pain so I have one of those like old style powerhouse like rack things at home. Yeah. So putting, I think I was up to about 80 pounds on the squats and then deadlift I was about 95. I think. So. Okay. And you're feeling stronger. You're, you're seeing your strength go up? I am slowly, but yeah, I mean, but I have been lifting for probably year, year and a half. You're doing good. And I would slowly, slowly increase your calories. Let's get you to, you know, over 22, 2300 calories, doing what you're doing now. And then from there, you have a lot of flexibility. Yeah, let, let, let us set, let us set you out with a program. Let's go get a body fat test as soon as we, we can right now, like in the next week or so. And then again in four, in four weeks, also we'll have Doug put you in the private forum. And then you can give us an update in four weeks. Cause I, I think we're, I think, sounds like we're all on the same page here of like, I think everybody's like fearful to change anything. Cause I think what you're doing is actually really good. I just think we need to get a little bit more data on exactly what's happening because you might just be, and this is always hard by the way, for glad you've probably heard me or us talk about this on the podcast is you're like in that Goldilocks zone, where you're really not moving a lot in any direction. Your body weight's kind of staying the same, but you're gradually getting stronger. So you're gradually building a little bit of muscle. You're also slowly losing a body fat. So you're not seeing major changes, but actually a lot is happening in the positive direction. And so I don't think any of us want to over-correct you until we get a little bit more information. Just to give you an idea, Beth, when you were eating 1200 calories, were you running and doing like more workouts and stuff at that time? So consider this, you were working out a lot more before, trying to burn a ton of calories and eating 500 less calories a day. Right. Today you're eating 500 more calories working out less and you feel better. You are, you're doing phenomenal. You're doing really, really well. Like, yeah, if you were my client, I'd be super like excited about this. And really you just stay the course and you're going to continue to see yourself feel better and change in a very sustainable way. Okay. Yeah. And you know, you guys talk all the time about just increasing those calories so that you can have a day every once in a while to enjoy because before I wasn't, I wasn't getting that. Were you bumping your, did you bump your fats with your new calories? Because yes. Good. Yeah. When women eat low fat, it wrecks their, just overall how they feel. And it was one of the first things I would do with a client. I'd look at their diet, their fat intake was low. I'd bump their fat intake and it would change things. So you guys think 40 plus maybe? I was just going to ask you, what do you think should we do as a follow-up? Because she's kind of already doing that. But the lifestyle guides. I like the 40 plus. Yeah, that's a great program. Define it a bit first. Either that or symmetry. I thought symmetry too. I didn't want to send her back on the isometrics right now. I wanted to kind of keep her ramping up. I think 40 plus. I like 40 plus and then the forum. Yeah, we're going to send you a program. We'll put you in the forum and then let us know. Yeah, like follow up with us, Beth. Love to hear about how things are going. Yes. Great. All right. Awesome work. Thank you. Great job. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you. That's good. Such a great example of someone who's doing a really good job. But how we can get our head. Yeah. And what it is, is that you don't see that scale moving. Maybe you don't even feel like you see your body changing much in the mirror. But what she's saying, just like you pointed out, eating 500 more calories, not running anymore, moving less, having the ability to have flexible weekends and have drinks on the weekend and not feel like anything's getting stuck. I mean, doing really, really good. You know, it's funny is I would have clients like this and they, you know, get in their own head and then they'd come to me at some point and say, I just ran into somebody I haven't seen in six months and they asked me. Yeah, they said, wow, you lost 15 pounds. I was like, the scale hasn't moved. I'm like, well, I'm telling you, body composition's changed. That makes such a difference that I actually used to, that was part of the advice, right? So if I had someone like her and she hears this, go do this. Go find somebody who hasn't seen you in the last year and see what they say. Yeah. And just go, old family, old friend, somebody who hasn't seen you in like a year and tell me that they don't make a comment on how good you reassurance. Yes. Why are people saying I lost weight? Yeah. Yeah. Or just that you look great. You know what I'm saying? It's like you just sometimes need to hear that from somebody else. That's your little voice that you do sometimes. That's my favorite. That's great. Our next caller is Marshall from Florida. Marshall, what's up, man? How can we help you? What's up, buddy? What's up, boys? Good morning. Yeah, happy Ash Wednesday, by the way. Oh, thanks, buddy. You too. Yeah, thank you. What's going on? How can we help you? So my question was back in November, I wrote you guys. I had started doing a different programming. It was full body, two days a week, more of like a powerlifting workout. And I was noticing that I was getting really sore after my squat days, more so than like running a map program. So really what I'm wondering is, is it due to maybe over intensity or could it be more of a recovery problem that I'm having? I mean, it's both, I guess, the same thing. Intensity is usually the first place we would look if this was the case. Volume being this kind of second thing. What's different? What is different about the workout now when you squat? Are you doing more sets and reps look like? Are you training failure? What's the difference in the load? So on that program, it was more like a traditional five by five. I was starting out at 60% of my max, like in week one. And then it progressed each workout, right? Each workout would go up 5%. The only difference being on that fifth set, it was like a burnout set to, that was more of the gauge to see my progress from week to week. And that's the one that made you really sore, Marshall? Marshall, you're obviously not running one of our programs, yeah? It doesn't sound familiar. So now I am. I've ran all those programs in the past. I have RGB. I did that because, well, for one, I've never ran any kind of power lifting or real, like a strength pace. You wanted to see if the grass was greener on the other side? Pretty much. Yeah, how'd that go for you? How'd that go for you? Yeah, so the soreness is not fun. It's fake grass. So I'm back on anabolic now. Good. And I will say whenever I miss a workout or two due to life circumstances, you know, when I do come back and get back to it, I'll still see that soreness even when I just miss a workout or two. That's normal. This is why you've, and I've talked about this on the podcast many times, like it's still to this day. In fact, we brought it up just the other day again. When I miss a couple days or a week off of training and I come back, I always overestimate what I need to do intensity-wise. And it's always blows my mind. Like after the workout, even with all my experience ago, Jesus, I could have just done two sets and walked away and been plenty good. But I do more because I think I'm fine. And that's a lesson that you're going to continue to learn until you understand that when you have a few days off like that, again, it doesn't take much to send that signal again. So you just got to do half the volume or half the intensity because you can always ramp it up the following week. And so you're just, you're overreaching every time you get back to your left and you don't need to. Yeah. Either that or deal with the soreness. I mean, but that's normal. You take some time off. The soreness is worse when you come back, even if it's just a week or a few days. That's totally normal. So that is normal. Yeah, it's totally normal. If it persists, then we got to look at your programming. It is normal, but I also want to point out, it's also an indicator that you did more than you need to. And so what Sal is saying is, yeah, it's normal. It happens to everybody. Yeah, you still want to cut down. Yeah, nothing. But I mean, that should always be this reminder to you. And the reason why I share that on the podcast, that like with all of our knowledge and experience, I still do that shit to myself. So that's how normal it is. But it doesn't mean it's right, right? So like the self-talk I have afterwards is, God damn it, I should know better. I didn't need to do that, right? But it's not like that. I guess, sorry to interrupt, but I guess a question that kind of naturally leads out of that to your point is, you know, and you guys have talked about, it's also normal for life just to happen. And you might miss a week. So it's almost as if inconsistency is the norm to an extent. So how am I supposed to expect to make gains if inconsistency is the norm? Listen, we did, we shared, you ever hear us talk about the study where the two groups, you had somebody who they went for like 18 weeks. They trained every single week for 18 weeks. And there was another group that every fourth week, they took that entire week off. And at the end of that study, the people that took the week off every fourth week got the same results as the group that went every single week all the way through 18 weeks. So the slight interruptions here and there are not that as big of a deal as people make it. Now breaks for, you know, weeks, yeah, weeks straight, three weeks in a row. You can also do this, Marshall. It's like, oh man, I can't go do my normal workout. All I have is 15 minutes. Okay, do a 15 minute workout or a 10 minute something, right? Yeah, I ended up doing that last night. That's it. I had a long day yesterday, got back home. We actually just bought a nice little workout rack with all the essentials about a week ago. So last night it was late. I didn't get to the gym, but I worked out at home and did just the foundational lifts and that was it. It's great. Yeah, you got it. Something's better than nothing, right? Do you have MAPS 15? Because that program is just incredible for stuff like this. Yeah, I do and I put my wife on that actually because she's postpartum right now. So I thought that'd be good for her. It'd be good for you too. Do the advanced version. Yeah. Watch what happens. Yeah. Yeah. I think too, like in terms of like when you go back to lifting to Adam's point, like the mentality of tapering that down and like really just being disciplined with doing less than what you think you want to really jump back in full force like you were doing, you need to be able to taper that down so you can build upon that again. It doesn't matter if it feels like it's like you're backtracking. You're not actually backtracking because now you're giving yourself the right stimulus. So it's all about the right dose in order to kind of keep pushing you forward. So if you hammer yourself too hard, you're going to have this excess amount of time to recover. And the soreness itself, we can address that. But to find that sweet spot, you're always trying to find that sweet spot, that right dose for you. So that way, frequency is going to be more likely because these interruptions are going to happen, yes. But if you're not getting in the way of that with restricting your movement because of soreness with all these kind of patterns, like you're going to feel more energized. And this is like a snowball effect that you can build off of. So it's a totally different mindset, but you got to start training yourself mentally to do that. Yeah, it's definitely a hard mindset to adopt after being raised up to think like soreness is the defining factor. I know that now that's not, but even still, just to come into the workout and kind of just remind myself, like, hey, you missed a week, so we need to dial it down. And even during the workout, it doesn't feel like I'm doing a lot already just to that point. So 100%. You don't lose strength in a week, but you do cause more damage on the comeback workout. Well, especially where it becomes super detrimental is when you have that hard workout and then you don't want to lift the next day because you're so sore. Like, so that's kind of how I try and get myself in the right mindset is like, so yesterday, I lifted yesterday and I hadn't lifted it almost a week, right? So yesterday's workout, as I'm training, the things I'm thinking is like, I want to lift today, right? So tomorrow is what I'm thinking yesterday. And so as I'm going through these lifts, I'm going like, I don't want to go too much because then if I go really bad, I'm going to not want to lift tomorrow and I care about the consistency of getting back into it, right? So that's kind of what you're telling yourself is you're going through it and you think, oh, I could easily do another set or I could easily add more weight. It's like, yeah, but I don't need to and I'm going to lift tomorrow and I don't want to be so damn sore that I don't want to lift tomorrow. So I need to back off. And you can always add later on. Like, so, but you know how, you know the thing we always say, right? Do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. So that's the mindset. All right, man. Good stuff. All right, Marshall. Thanks for calling in, bro. Yeah. Thanks so much, guys. Thanks for your time. You got it. All right, dude. Soreness is definitely a sign that you don't want to ignore. The problem is that soreness, that people think that soreness is a sign of a good workout. Yeah. They're misreading the sign. It is not a sign of a good workout. That's still a big thing. It's a sign that you might have done too much. Well, and we're really, he didn't get into it. I alluded to it, but he didn't get into it. But what happens a lot of times with these people is they go off for a week. And by people, I mean all of us, right? So you go off for like a week and then you come back and you're like, oh, I've been off for a week. You got to make up for it. You got to make up for it and then get after it. And then because you got after it so much, either one, you don't even lift the next day or the two days after like that. Or even if you do lift, you're going to have to like gingerly go through it because you're so sore from the previous workout. So you end up doing, you end up doing a half the volume that you could take and then the body's still sore. So it's just trying to recover. Like, so yeah, you don't realize how much you shoot yourself in the foot by overreaching that much consistently. And, you know, again, we, I know people are tired of hearing the do as little as possible to list amount of change. But that's the reason why I say it so much is because I get what a challenge this is. I'm getting that tattooed on my butt. I came up with that. Our next caller is Sean from Colorado. Sean, what's up, man? What's up, Sean? Not a whole lot. How are y'all doing? Good, good. How can we help you, bro? Okay. So I'm a stay at home dad. And I've recently lost about 50, 58 pounds. Wow. Sweet. For, it took about a year. All I did was change my diet and walk. Oh, yeah. Okay. Now I'm at a point where I need to start lifting. And I don't know where to go. I've been out of the game so long that I'm just like in there. I go do your basic pig movements, just move weight and then hope for the best. So you're going to be someone fun to help out, bro. We got you, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is your schedule? Newbie gains. Yeah. We got you. Maps on a ball. It's starting preface. That's it. Done. You're going to love it. Do you have a barbell? Do you have like a barbell on a bench and all that stuff? Can I throw a little challenge in there for y'all? Yeah, I love challenges. Give it to me. Uh, as a stay at home dad, we actually travel. My wife is a doctor of physical therapy, but she deals mostly with like spinal and that kind of stuff. And so we're on the road. We're never in one location for more than three months. And so like a gym membership is really hard to keep in, keep going even with Planet Fitness. They're super easy to go to, but they're also not always like right on spot. So it's because we choose places that aren't necessarily main hubs, I guess. So it's mostly home workouts. Do you, what equipment do you have at home? Yeah, what do you got? I've got resistance bands, jump ropes. Let's see. Some places I can put up a pull up bar. I need to get one that's for like the doorway, but even like here we're in like over a hundred year old house. The doorways are huge. So it's like not simple. So I mean, I'm like very limited. Are you open to, because we can work with this, but I would love if you invested in a adjustable dumbbell, like literally the dumbbells that you can adjust all the way up to like 80 pounds. Or suspension trainer, that would be easier. I mean, that would be even cheaper and easier, right? So suspension trainer is less than a hundred bucks. We could get that. I don't know what those dumbbells run for for a pair of those, but that would be awesome because we can get along. I think I've seen them online for like 100, 150 bucks. That stuff's not too bad. I could probably work with something like that. Okay. So if you have a bench and dumbbells, then we can do maps and a ball. If you want to use a suspension trainer, which is even more convenient, and you could travel with that, we have a program called map suspension. And with you don't need, you could just use your suspension trainer and body weight and some dumbbells in your set. Okay. So I mean, honestly, like with you guys, where would you go? Like as a person who's trying to become like a hybrid athlete, so I want to be able to run marathons, but I also want to be able to push some weight. Let's worry about the marathon running after we build some muscle right now. Yeah, let's focus on muscle. Because here's what you did really well, was you slowly reduced the body fat over a year. You didn't crash diet. You just cleaned it. It sounds like you cleaned everything up. You just made more activity. So you did a really good job of treading the body fat. Now what I'd want to do with you is build a roaring metabolism and build a nice base. So I'd want to reverse diet you. So I actually would want you to start lifting with either map suspension or maps at a bulk, whatever we decide, and focus on building muscle right now and building your metabolism. So the goal would be to, because I see your current calories are only at 2,000 calories. Yeah, they're super low. I don't feel like I'm active enough to do a good job more. You're good. My point though is that what I don't want to do is introduce running to you right now at that low of calories because then you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. So what we want to do is we want to reverse diet and so slowly increase calories, train either suspension or anabolic, whichever one we decide to give you, follow that. And the goal would really get yourself up to where you're eating more like 2,800 to 3,000 calories and maintaining your body fat percentage or looking better because you've built muscle. Before we even consider putting in any sort of running. Yeah, and then I'd have them do... Okay, and the running I just do whenever I feel like it. So it's not necessarily a thing I train for. I enjoy running, so when I feel like running, I go run. Right, so I would build that in for you, but right now I wouldn't want you to do that. Right now it's not helping us towards our goal of building your metabolism, building a muscle. It'll counter it. Yeah, so as of right now it's worthless. We'll get to that. Right now it's slowly increase the calories. If we're going to go with maps suspension, we'll send you map suspension over to you and we'll follow that as we re-reverse diet you out. And that'll be a really good place. Considering you haven't been lifting any weights, map suspension will be a great place. It'd be the easiest one to get going and it won't be interrupted by travel or places where you don't have access to anything like that. And then after that, if you want to start to ramp it up, then maybe we invest in the dumbbells and we do maps anabolic. Okay, yeah. No, that sounds way more like into our lifestyle. Cool. And I love, I actually like the idea that, because if you're talking about athletic abilities, so that map suspension is an even better foundation. Exactly, yeah. So that's going to be even better for you. I think you'd like that a lot and it really does build good muscle. It'll strengthen a lot of deep range of motion. And then I believe in my original question, I did state that I'm a little nervous about putting on too much weight. So with reverse dieting, what things do I need to watch out for? You getting in your head? So I'll just follow what you guys say, like that doesn't bother me at all, but I need to know what to look out for. No, no, no, listen, here's what a reverse diet is not. Eating everything. A reverse diet is a very structured, it's a very structured, disciplined way of slowly increasing calories. So a guy like you, if you're eating 2,000 calories a day, which is what you wrote up here, I'd go up to like 2,200 calories. I'd stay there for a little while, then maybe go up another 100 calorie. And you're just slowly increasing it and then staying with the increase for a few weeks, just to see how you feel. What you want to see is strength increases. You want to see not really that much change on the weight on the scale, but a body composition change, right? Like you start to get leaner, you start to build more muscle. So your body weight really isn't changing much. Maybe it goes up a little bit, but not much at all. We'll do this too, Sean. Yeah, that's... I'll have Doug put you in the private form. That way, as you're going through this process, you can just check in with us, okay? So... Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah, because I do feel like I'm getting weaker as I'm going, which is strange because I don't feel like I'm doing anything different except for those calories. Yeah, well, that's what's happening. That's okay though. You did a really good job at this point and you laid the foundation for us to really help you out and build muscle. So literally, we're going to do map suspension. Doug's going to send that over to you. The only investment you'll have to do is buy the suspension trainer, which by the way, I think Doug can send you a link for 50% off of that also. Doug, do we have that? We do, yes. Yeah, so that'll save you also 50 bucks. So the thing's going to be like 50 bucks. Oh. So that's amazing. So you'll get that. You'll follow the suspension. We're going to put you in the forum and then all I want you to do is once a month, beginning the month. So four weeks from now, just check in with us. Let us know where you're at, how you're feeling and whatever things you're concerned about or not concerned about. Just check in with us and then we can make adjustments on a monthly basis. Oh, that'd be fantastic. You guys, just listening to your podcast has changed how I eat, how I look at things. I don't do things quickly, obviously. And I just take it like one step at a time until I get it perfect. Right on, dude. That's the way to do it, man. Yeah, you're doing good. Thanks, bro. Yeah. Appreciate it. We got you. Yeah, I don't. Thank you guys so much. You got it, Sean. All right, Sean, see you in the forum. Take it easy. He is relaxed for being a stay-at-home man. He's got little kids in the background. He's probably had to figure that out. Like, he was going to be chill. Well, it's just me and my kids. I'm like, I can't even sit down. You know what I mean? You want to take a nap? I'm standing. Yeah, he's got a good job. Yeah. I mean, I, this is a- The only different thing I would have done is instead of lost, losing the weight with just walking or whatever. Oh, it was weights. Of course, of course. But I mean, we're fine. Like, he didn't go ridiculous with the cutting. He didn't go crazy cardio. And people need to know. Like, he's talking about building strength. Suspension trainers of all of the non-free weight tools you can use besides like gym machines and stuff. Like, they are phenomenal muscle builders. You can go from beginner to super advanced with one pair of suspension trainers. You know, too, this is actually really, this will be a fun test for him if he's the type of person that will follow through, is following suspension. He's going to build a bunch of muscle. And then if you were going to make the investment in a dumbbell or something like that, like that'll be the not a beautiful progression from that. Totally. Our next caller is Casey from Italy. Casey, how you doing? Yeah, hey guys. Oh my gosh, it's so awesome. Now I know why everybody gets so nervous when they're on here. Oh, gosh. Thank you in advance. So much to say, but to all of you, Sal, Adam, Justin, Doug, that your show is absolutely amazing. I've been a listener for years, but thank you for being such good men and standing up for what you believe in and bringing goodness into this world. You guys are all angels in my eyes. Thank you so much. Just want to say thank you from the bottom. Grazie mille, grazie mille. Give this woman something for free. Come on, yeah. We got you. We'll take care of you. We'll figure it out, yeah. You're not leaving me with that something. By the way, you're in Sicily right now, right? What part of Sicily are you in? Me and your homeland. So I'm, the closest city is in Catania. Okay, okay. Yeah, so you're a little bit a little higher. So my family's by Palermo, but I've been to Catania, so cool. Okay, yeah. I think my family, my great-grandparents from here, my best noni, I think they're from Palermo. I still have to do some research and figure all that out. But yeah, living here now and loving it. So how can we help you? So my question is, so I retired bodybuilder. I did the bikini bodybuilding three shows. My last show is in 22, gosh, it's 24 already in 22. And I work alongside the military and support services and they have this really cool thing called the 500-pound, 1,000-pound club. And if you haven't heard of it, it's total one rep max of bench squat and deadlifts. So I'm going for the 500-pound club in May. I turned 40. I'm doing it on my 40th birthday. My question is, what program should I follow next to achieve my goal? Right now, I'm in anabolic advanced phase three. I'm about to end it. So this is perfect timing. Maths, power lift. Easy. Yeah. That's easy. Maths, power lift is the way to go. Okay. Super sure. Okay. That was too easy. Oh, super easy. And then eating. Yeah, it was an easy question. Okay. And then we done power lift. I'm excited. Do it in a calorie surplus if you can. So that would be my suggestion, isn't it? Yeah. That would be too easy. I'm eating pasta five days a week now. I'm still hitting my protein goal. Yeah. And you look really lean too. So a surplus is going to be great with power lift. Awesome, awesome. And then for dead bed, any best tips for perfecting dead lift form? Because I think I'm slacking in my dead lift. Okay. How do you pull? You sumo, conventional? Are you tall, short? She's five inches tall. I'm tall. I'm five-eight. So I go all the way down. I guess that's it. And I hold the bar, not reverse like that. And I push up. So you pull conventional? Conventional, yes. Okay. So yeah, sumo's like a sumo squat, and they have an abs sumo. Yeah. So you're pulling conventional. Yeah, typically if you're for a girl over five-five, then you'll pull conventional. So pulling conventional, you want to drive through the floor with your feet, and you want to really, you really want to grip the bar tight, activate your lats before you pull up. So you want to activate your lats, take any slack off the bar. So you're kind of pulling up a little bit on the bar, squeeze the bar tight, extend your arms fully, no bending the elbows whatsoever. And then drive through the floor with your feet, like you're pushing the floor away from you. And that typically gets people in a better position. I got one step better for you there, Casey, is we're going to put you in the forum, and then if you video you deadlifting, then the guys will really be able to give you some advice. And you know, MAPS PowerLift, because it's a powerlifting program, there it's really, really good instruction on how to do the big lifts. So you'll watch the videos, and you'll get some good instruction on that. Yeah. That's got to be important as coaching stuff. Looking forward to it. Yeah, I can't wait to hear it. And thank you so much for the forum. I'm excited to be in there and to talk to you. The next time you go to the gym and you do deadlifts, just give us a video. And that's actually one of the ways that people use the forum the most is to actually critique form, since obviously like it's tough to give you advice on deadlifting without seeing where you may or may not be having a mistake. So there might be some little things that we can cue you that will make all the difference to get much stronger. And that lift is like that, where like, somebody's lifting and they just have slack in their arms, simply taking the slack out of their arms of the bar and also making lift 30. Another set of eyes are very helpful. Yes. Totally. Yes. Awesome. Thank you, guys. Okay. So that's Power Lift in the forum and I'll work on the deadlift. Real quick, Adam, you talked about there's nowhere else you can go. I think it was Truckee to the mountains, the beach. Here in Catania, we have Mount Etna 40 minutes up. I was at the snow a couple of weeks ago. It came down and you're at the beach. So you can't compare. Sicily, it's an island in the Mediterranean. He said no other place on the earth. Yeah, but is there actually like a hill you can ride down on the snow or is it just you're saying there's snow on the ground? No, you can ski up there. I haven't skied up there. You can go up there and just ski and people do. The only problem is in Sicily, when you're trying to get any service anywhere at a certain time of day, everybody's asleep or not working or whatever. You're like, what the hell's going on here? Yeah. That is absolutely 100% true. And they eat dinner very late and I cannot adapt to eating dinner at 10 o'clock at night. Hey, listen, are you eating arancini there for your surplus? Because that's one of the best bulking foods. Of course, arancini, yes. Yes, all the time. And arancini, pasta, la norma. Gosh, I'm just eating everything under the sun. You know what? The quality of food is just so much different and better here and you can't compare. Yeah, I know. It makes me sad. Just make sure you hit that protein and take first. You're all good. Yeah. Thank you so much for calling in. Thank you guys so much. Have a wonderful day. You've got to carry on. Happy Valentine's Day. Bye. Thank you, Jason. Thank you. Bye-bye. All right, all right. Why are we all loud? Why are we all loud at a time, people? That's just how it is. We just yell. Everyone of my friends grow up too. We're just excited, people. Yeah! Yeah, I love, hey, she's going to crush. If she's got a bodybuilding background, Bikini. She looks lean. Yeah, yeah. And she's going to follow a power lift. Oh my God, she's going to hit those numbers no problem. Yeah, I agree. It'll be a good time. It'll be fun. Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out some of our free fitness guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find us all on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano. And Adam is at Mind Pump, Adam.